Persimmon Cheif Exec £75million bonus

[Weegreenman]

Absolutely disgusting. What kind of a world are we living in? :soapbox:

[cabbageandribs1875]

don't be so heartless, it was reduced from 100m after a public outcry, how's the poor man expected to survive on a measly 75m

[Weegreenman]

don't be so heartless, it was reduced from 100m after a public outcry, how's the poor man expected to survive on a measly 75m


I suppose when you put it like that, I feel a wee bit sorry for him now :violin::violin::violin:

[RyeSloan]

Absolutely disgusting. What kind of a world are we living in? :soapbox:

A Help to Buy world?

Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.

[Weegreenman]

A Help to Buy world?

Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.


Beggers belief that that this was a formula made up by his fellow directors/ Execs:confused: As was mentioned above it was actually up at £100million but to save embarrassment he agreed to give away £25million. You couldn’t make this **** up. Laws need to be introduced to stop this type of thing from happening in a time were food banks are more common than ever before. I’ll say it again, disgusting!

[Allant1981]

Beggers belief that that this was a formula made up by his fellow directors/ Execs:confused: As was mentioned above it was actually up at £100million but to save embarrassment he agreed to give away £25million. You couldn’t make this **** up. Laws need to be introduced to stop this type of thing from happening in a time were food banks are more common than ever before. I’ll say it again, disgusting!

would you say no if it was you though?

[Weegreenman]

[QUOTE=allant1981;5598689]would you say no if it was you though?[/QUOTE

If I said yes, you wouldn’t believe me :wink:

[Speedy]

A Help to Buy world?

Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.

The pay award was linked to company performance.

If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The pay award was linked to company performance.

If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.

Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.

[RyeSloan]

The pay award was linked to company performance.

If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.

But how much of that performance was due to him and his team and how much due to general market conditions and the ridiculous gift of public money to the house builders?

Sure the SP going from £4 to £24 over the term of the plan was great for shareholders but then again that’s the reward for being a shareholder, you own the company.

Excessive executive bonus awards and in this case not just for Jeff but for the whole executive team are actually detrimental to shareholders. It’s no surprise to see the main architects of the bonus plan scuttle off one by one while trousering hundreds of millions of pounds of shareholders money. The amount should have been capped and quite clearly the plan was overly generous to the recipients at the expense of ordinary shareholders.

I often see excessive bonus plans and options being gifted to boards across multiple companies. And while the basic premise of incentivising the exc’s is probably a sound one (debatable though as you could argue they are already being paid to do a good job!) it’s been used and abused on a daily basis with this just being a rather public showing of what’s going on in board rooms up and down the country.

[Mibbes Aye]

Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.

:agree: Privatised profit and nationalised risk.

Sometimes it's deliberate policy as in this case, sometimes it is unavoidable, as in the bank bailouts ten years ago.

Either way it reflects a system that is utterly, utterly wrong and that has evolved to serve vested interests.

Capitalism was meant to be survival of the fittest. The reality is a cesspool of corrupt practices and an economic system that is thoroughly gamed towards the self-interests of a small group.

I read "The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists" in my teens. It was a scalding account of how the economic system was rigged to suit certain groups, in the years between the two world wars. Its author, Robert Tressell, would be both simultaneously disgusted and unsurprised by the situation we are in now, I suspect.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The pay award was linked to company performance.

If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.

And what of you were an employee, perhaps having your pension scheme diminished or your hours cut; perhaps being laid off for profit maximisation? You know, the people who do the work and created that £75 million bonus for one guy.

[Hibernia&Alba]

would you say no if it was you though?

To a bonus of £75 million, when I already earn multiple times the salary of many in the company ? Of course I'd say no; share it equally amongst all the staff.

We seem to live in a world now where nobody ever asks themselves how much is enough. There was a time only a few decades ago when CEO's of publicly listed companies earned twenty or thirty times the amount of the average employee; now it's multiplies in the hundreds. How much is reasonable: how about a £500 million bonus or a £1 billion bonus for one guy - take it, no questions asked; any amount is fully deserved and fair?

[James310]

And what of you were an employee, perhaps having your pension scheme diminished or your hours cut; perhaps being laid off for profit maximisation? You know, the people who do the work and created that £75 million bonus for one guy.

Perhaps, or maybe employees all own shares via company sharesave schemes and have benefitted significantly as well. Maybe their pension investments also had shares in the company and as a result their pension value has been boosted.

Always another side to a story.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Perhaps, or maybe employees all own shares via company sharesave schemes and have benefitted significantly as well. Maybe their pension investments also had shares in the company and as a result their pension value has been boosted.

Always another side to a story.

The two sides of the scales have been tipped heavily in favour of capital and against labour since the neoliberal experiment began forty years ago. Fewer and fewer companies offer final salary pension schemes, for example; more and more use short term contracts, with ever higher remuneration for boardrooms vis-à-vis shop floor. Productivity has increased steadily since the 1970s, but wages haven't. Capital is extracting more and more from labour but giving less and less.

[Allant1981]

To a bonus of £75 million, when I already earn multiple times the salary of many in the company ? Of course I'd say no; share it equally amongst all the staff.

We seem to live in a world now where nobody ever asks themselves how much is enough. There was a time only a few decades ago when CEO's of publicly listed companies earned twenty or thirty times the amount of the average employee; now it's multiplies in the hundreds. How much is reasonable: how about a £500 million bonus or a £1 billion bonus for one guy - take it, no questions asked; any amount is fully deserved and fair?

very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them

[calumhibee1]

very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them

Definitely. I find it hard to believe anyone would be offered £75m and say “Na, split it between everyone else”. Fair play to you if you would, but I know I wouldn’t.

[Hibernia&Alba]

very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them


Definitely. I find it hard to believe anyone would be offered £75m and say “Na, split it between everyone else”. Fair play to you if you would, but I know I wouldn’t.

You would take £75 million just for bonus for doing your job? Mind this is on top of a huge salary. Nobody needs that. Okay, I'll compromise, one million for me and 74 million to split between all employees. One million is huge and more than ample; 75 million is an outrage and totally undeserved by any measure.:agree:

What if the bonus was £500 million just for yourselves. Would you take it? There has to be a social conscience which kicks in at some point.

[Sergio sledge]

To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.

[Hibernia&Alba]

To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.

Salary is £40 million per year??

[Allant1981]

You would take £75 million just for bonus for doing your job? Mind this is on top of a huge salary. Nobody needs that. Okay, I'll compromise, one million for me and 74 million to split between all employees. One million is huge and more than ample; 75 million is an outrage and totally undeserved by any measure.:agree:

What if the bonus was £500 million just for yourselves. Would you take it? There has to be a social conscience which kicks in at some point.

of course id take it, every single member of my family would never worry about money again, my kids would lead a very good life forever. if that makes me greedy or a bad person then id happily live with that.

[calumhibee1]

of course id take it, every single member of my family would never worry about money again, my kids would lead a very good life forever. if that makes me greedy or a bad person then id happily live with that.

Pretty much the way I see it. Could set up myself, family, friends, generation upon generation of my family in future, do some good in my local community, donate significant sums to charities etc.

No way would I turn it down and like you said if that for some reason makes me a bad person then so be it although I’d suggest the vast majority of people would do the same.

[Weegreenman]

Pretty much the way I see it. Could set up myself, family, friends, generation upon generation of my family in future, do some good in my local community, donate significant sums to charities etc.

No way would I turn it down and like you said if that for some reason makes me a bad person then so be it although I’d suggest the vast majority of people would do the same.


It doesn’t make it right though does it? We should always, always be striving for a much fairer world. This isn’t right and it shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

[calumhibee1]

It doesn’t make it right though does it? We should always, always be striving for a much fairer world. This isn’t right and it shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

Definitely, I’m not saying it’s fair. But I think people suggesting the guy should be ashamed for accepting it are kidding themselves on a bit.

[Beefster]

To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.

His annual salary is less than £3/4m IIRC. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. I think the figure you quoted might include all/part of the bonus that this thread is about.

[Hibs Class]

Definitely, I’m not saying it’s fair. But I think people suggesting the guy should be ashamed for accepting it are kidding themselves on a bit.

He was ashamed, or at least embarrassed. On BBC interview he walked off when asked the question about pay, saying "I'd rather not talk about that" and that it was unfortunate that the interviewer had even asked the question.

Most definitely a failure in corporate governance

[Allant1981]

He was ashamed, or at least embarrassed. On BBC interview he walked off when asked the question about pay, saying "I'd rather not talk about that" and that it was unfortunate that the interviewer had even asked the question.

Most definitely a failure in corporate governance

dont think he was embarassed about getting the money, more to do with the questions being asked about it and the negative publicity he was getting. I may be wrong though but it didnt come over that way

[danhibees1875]

I'd certainly not be saying no. :greengrin

Looks like he's ended up being asked to leave on the back of it, not sure all the ins and outs but effectively a pretty sweet golden handshake!

[Sergio sledge]

His annual salary is less than £3/4m IIRC. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. I think the figure you quoted might include all/part of the bonus that this thread is about.

Yes, my mistake it did include part of that bonus.

Edit: actually its a bit unclear whether the £45m last year was part of this £75m or in addition to t. I'm maybe not reading this correctly though: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/persimmon-director-bonus-scheme-jeff-fairburn-living-wage-housebuilder-a8385781.html

[Speedy]

Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.

Perhaps but I'd say the current outcry is misdirected.

Taxpayers being disgruntled I can understand but as a shareholder I'd be fairly content.

[Speedy]

And what of you were an employee, perhaps having your pension scheme diminished or your hours cut; perhaps being laid off for profit maximisation? You know, the people who do the work and created that £75 million bonus for one guy.

With so much profit you'd imagine they'd do pretty well as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

Perhaps but I'd say the current outcry is misdirected.

Taxpayers being disgruntled I can understand but as a shareholder I'd be fairly content.

Not sure about the extent of taxpayer involvement in the scheme that Persimmon profited from, but we'll be getting virtually half of the £75m back in tax and NI.

EDIT......that's not a defence of the payment, by the way. :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Not sure about the extent of taxpayer involvement in the scheme that Persimmon profited from, but we'll be getting virtually half of the £75m back in tax and NI.

EDIT......that's not a defence of the payment, by the way. :greengrin

Yup which is part of the reason why, I would suggest, there has been so little serious regulation as these large bonuses are a boon for the tax man.

In this instance however the taxpayer should feel a bit disgruntled as government money has been effectively funneled directly into the house builders. Thus helping to inflate the returns of the incentive schemes the executives have awarded themselves across the big builders.

Oddly Help to Buy still, despite the clear evidence it pushes house prices UP and the money effectively goes directly to private companies, seems a popular policy with the general public...hence why it has been recently extended once again.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Yup which is part of the reason why, I would suggest, there has been so little serious regulation as these large bonuses are a boon for the tax man.

In this instance however the taxpayer should feel a bit disgruntled as government money has been effectively funneled directly into the house builders. Thus helping to inflate the returns of the incentive schemes the executives have awarded themselves across the big builders.

Oddly Help to Buy still, despite the clear evidence it pushes house prices UP and the money effectively goes directly to private companies, seems a popular policy with the general public...hence why it has been recently extended once again.

I wouldn't have been able to buy my first house without help to buy (or would have had to wait longer). Allowed me to get a 2 bed flat with a 5% deposit, at a decent mortgage rate due to the government sticking in 20%. Government also set to win when I hope to sell next year, with the property value up around 12.5% giving them a decent return on their investment.

I guess the worry is that if the prices keep going up at such a rate we're headed for another housing bubble which is about to pop.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think this is a share option scheme rather than a cash bonus. If so, having agreed the exercise price and number of options, there’s **** all can be done to control the eventual size of the benefit. The losers are the shareholders who were diluted to create the options. Then again, with big dividends and a soaring price stoked by public money, it’s kerching all round.

[overdrive]

He’s getting underpaid...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi12uWjw-beAhXJDcAKHaKgDcMQzPwBegQIARAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbusiness-46289499&psig=AOvVaw08_4OiQub0AXPzr63Vu0f8&ust=1542925432449531