James McClean (NHC)

[Chorley Hibee]

All because he exercises his right to refuse to wear a poppy.

What a horrible event Remembrance Day has become.

https://youtu.be/h-7TWbUnWXo

[Ozyhibby]

Interestingly Matic not wearing one seems to be ok. He’s not Irish though, so that’s ok.


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[calumhibee1]

Interestingly Matic not wearing one seems to be ok. He’s not Irish though, so that’s ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup. And for very similar reasons to Maclean. He’s not a ‘fenian’ though so it’s fine.

[Michael]

Such a boring topic that gets dragged up every year. Who actually cares whether or not someone wears a poppy?

[Kato]

Such a boring topic that gets dragged up every year. Who actually cares whether or not someone wears a poppy?

Idiots.

[blaikie]

All because he exercises his right to refuse to wear a poppy.

What a horrible event Remembrance Day has become.

https://youtu.be/h-7TWbUnWXo

Every year it seems to get worse against McClean.

Good on him I wouldn’t wear one either, different reasons though the whole charity campaign has been completely politicized over the years and hijacked by right wing nut jobs to show their “Britishness”

It’s a personal decision and I respect people’s choices both sides of the debate!

[Frazerbob]

Its more important to be seen to pay your respects than it is to actually pay your respects theses days.

[Weegreenman]

Such a boring topic that gets dragged up every year. Who actually cares whether or not someone wears a poppy?



This :aok:

[Chorley Hibee]

Its more important to be seen to pay your respects than it is to actually pay your respects theses days.

A perfect summary of events.

[ben johnson]

Much is being made of various groups who will ignore the minutes silence on Sunday There is a thread on JKB already panning Celtic about their fans response to the upcoming Sunday game.
I will be at the local memorial to the men who where killed in the two World Wars. During the brief service the traffic is halted by the police and the traffic queues in both directions and is held for 5 minutes or so. Ideal for the drivers to get out and pay their respects. As usual no engines will be turned off and the occupants of the cars can get their phones out and ignore what is taking place yards from
them. It happens every year.

[where'stheslope]

The poppy thing is a mark of respect, but you don't have to ware one to show respect!

Most people who don't go to church or chapel still believe in God.

Everyone has the right to do their own thing, and as long as it does not interfere with anyone elses beliefs it should be fine!!!

[Brizo]

Its more important to be seen to pay your respects than it is to actually pay your respects theses days.

:agree: in a nutshell

[stu in nottingham]

It becomes ever more tiresome each year. My grandfather was in the Gordon Highlanders in the First World War and my auld man nearly lost his life in the Merchant Navy in the following conflict. I absolutely know that neither of them would have given a toss whether somebody wore a red poppy a white one or none at all. That’s good enough for me.

[heid the baw]

Stokes didn't wear one when all his Hibs teammates did. No one even noticed.

[Vini1875]

Stokes didn't wear one when all his Hibs teammates did. No one even noticed.

As it should be, personal choice. I am sure there are many public figures who would not wear one but do because of the fear of being abused. Welcome to Tommy Robinson's Britain.

[Ozyhibby]

Paying your respects has changed over the years.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/85be10e646bdaad92433a48bf00061ef.jpg


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[Lendo]

Such a boring topic that gets dragged up every year. Who actually cares whether or not someone wears a poppy?

Morons care.

[Pretty Boy]

Every single year.....

His choice and give his background and understandable one.

[smack]

Stokes didn't wear one when all his Hibs teammates did. No one even noticed.

How do you know then?

[Sylar]

Much is being made of various groups who will ignore the minutes silence on Sunday There is a thread on JKB already panning Celtic about their fans response to the upcoming Sunday game.
I will be at the local memorial to the men who where killed in the two World Wars. During the brief service the traffic is halted by the police and the traffic queues in both directions and is held for 5 minutes or so. Ideal for the drivers to get out and pay their respects. As usual no engines will be turned off and the occupants of the cars can get their phones out and ignore what is taking place yards from
them. It happens every year.

I've been quite critical of the likes of James McClean in the past, I won't lie. Even last year, I found it unpalatable that all of the German players in the Huddersfield team he was playing against could wear a poppy to represent their club's wishes, but McClean couldn't. However, I've read some of the stuff he (and other Irish Republicans living during The Troubles) have said about the poppy and their experiences with the British Army and I can see his perspective. To me, if he (or Matic, or anyone else) chooses NOT to wear a poppy, that's entirely their business. One of the outcomes of past conflicts is that we have the freedom to make those choices, free from a fascist state. I realise that in being vocally critical of his choice to not wear a poppy, I was engaging in "poppy fascism", and I really disliked myself for it. I didn't make any effort to walk any distance in his shoes, I simply judged the man and his actions, which was abhorrently wrong.

However, if the Celtc fans rock up to Almondvale on Sunday and true to previous form disrupt the minute's silence, that's a different story for me. Stay outside the stadium, stand quietly and let the moment pass while allowing the players/Livingston fans, coaching staff etc to observe the silence should they wish...but in previous years, they've loudly jeered, sung Pro-IRA songs (against Falkirk) or shouted abuse at opposition fans, and that isn't on for me. They can elect not to involve themselves in proceedings, that's perfectly fine, but don't take away the opportunity for those fans by behaving like utter cretins.

[Sir David Gray]

No-one should be made to wear a poppy. It's at complete odds with what the poppy is supposed to represent.

I personally disagree with James McClean but that's not the same as saying he has to wear one.

When someone is forced into doing something it becomes very little about paying respects and represents a form of fascism which is ironic given the efforts of the British Armed Forces in WWII.

[silverhibee]

I've been quite critical of the likes of James McClean in the past, I won't lie. Even last year, I found it unpalatable that all of the German players in the Huddersfield team he was playing against could wear a poppy to represent their club's wishes, but McClean couldn't. However, I've read some of the stuff he (and other Irish Republicans living during The Troubles) have said about the poppy and their experiences with the British Army and I can see his perspective. To me, if he (or Matic, or anyone else) chooses NOT to wear a poppy, that's entirely their business. One of the outcomes of past conflicts is that we have the freedom to make those choices, free from a fascist state. I realise that in being vocally critical of his choice to not wear a poppy, I was engaging in "poppy fascism", and I really disliked myself for it. I didn't make any effort to walk any distance in his shoes, I simply judged the man and his actions, which was abhorrently wrong.

However, if the Celtc fans rock up to Almondvale on Sunday and true to previous form disrupt the minute's silence, that's a different story for me. Stay outside the stadium, stand quietly and let the moment pass while allowing the players/Livingston fans, coaching staff etc to observe the silence should they wish...but in previous years, they've loudly jeered, sung Pro-IRA songs (against Falkirk) or shouted abuse at opposition fans, and that isn't on for me. They can elect not to involve themselves in proceedings, that's perfectly fine, but don't take away the opportunity for those fans by behaving like utter cretins.

Did Celtc fans a few seasons ago stay outside a ground while a minute silence was being observed inside and sing there own ditties outside, they were singing a song about the poppy last week, "you can stick your f***ing poppy up your arse, right up"

[Sylar]

Did Celtc fans a few seasons ago stay outside a ground while a minute silence was being observed inside and sing there own ditties outside, they were singing a song about the poppy last week, "you can stick your f***ing poppy up your arse, right up"

Perhaps that's the Falkirk game I'm thinking of? I can't recall who they played last season (Aberdeen maybe?), but as soon as the microphones kicked back in again after the silence was over, the Aberdeen (or whoever it was) fans were universal in booing them.

They also had their giant banner at Celtc park a few years back about the "blood stained poppies".

[jacomo]

I’m not wearing a poppy these days because I’m sick of the ‘patriotic’ outrage.

Come and get me, xenophobes.

[CMurdoch]

Its more important to be seen to pay your respects than it is to actually pay your respects theses days.

I like that a lot.

[Sir David Gray]

Did Celtc fans a few seasons ago stay outside a ground while a minute silence was being observed inside and sing there own ditties outside, they were singing a song about the poppy last week, "you can stick your f***ing poppy up your arse, right up"

Yep it was at Falkirk, this was the unedited version whereas Sky turned the mics off so it wasn't heard at the time.

Shameful and an utter embarrassment for Scottish football.

https://youtu.be/YW24N1G0WIk

[skankomcphee]

I
but in previous years, they've loudly jeered, sung Pro-IRA songs (against Falkirk)

Matter of opinion as to whether the Aidan McAnespie song falls into that category. Coincidentally, I read recently that a former British soldier has been charged in connection with his death:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-british-soldier-to-be-prosecuted-for-aidan-mcanespie-killing-1.3536114

[proud_and_green]

I have to say I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the populist remembrance bit and the 'if you don't shout to the rooftops your love and admiration for the armed forces then you must be against them and consequently should be strung up'.
I say this as a veteran myself, I am proud of my service but I am fed up with the whole overkill and virtue signalling and the amount of respect you show being directly proportionate to the size of your poppy and the number of posts you put on Facebook showing your disgust at someone who didn't prostrate themselves in front of their local memorial after having crawled up to it on hands and knees.
For me remembrance is a very personal thing, I used to get really embarrassed on occasion when people would come up in the street if I was in uniform and and give me the 'thank you for your service'.
I don't parade with legion but I do take myself off and silently remember lost friends.
I wonder sometimes if this and many other things are a sign of a people with nothing to believe in so they latch on to anything.
If you want to wear a poppy do and thank you, if you don't that's fine too.
The virtue signalling by the Jambos and Huns in particular is for me almost equivalent to stolen valour, by shouting about it so much they seem to want to associate themselves with the acts of the soldiers themselves almost as if they were the ones who made the sacrifice. I'll wager any amount that not many of those that shout the loudest were ever on a baseline in NI or on a freezing mountain top in Bosnia or mortared in Iraq or IEDd in Afghanistan or indeed bored rigid in any of those places.
As someone else has already said, the poppies remember lives lost by people who gave their tomorrows so we could have our todays and free from exactly that type of bully boy oppression more commonly associated with brown and black shirts!

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[lord bunberry]

I used to wear a poppy every year, but this is the first year I won’t bother. It’s been hijacked by political groups and the media. I put a donation in the box on Saturday, but I didn’t take the poppy.
Its a shame that something that was meant as a way to show respect has become the opposite.

[Chorley Hibee]

Paying your respects has changed over the years.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/85be10e646bdaad92433a48bf00061ef.jpg


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Just when you thought remembrance had reached a new low - you then see something like the above. 🙈

[Lancs Harp]

Just when you thought remembrance had reached a new low, you then see something like the above. 🙈

They actually made me laugh. Just like little kids believe baby Jesus hatched out of a chocolate egg, little chubby kids will believe soldiers in the trenches dined on pizza.

[Scotty Leither]

I'm going to the church where I was baptised for the remembrance day service where a lifelong mate of mine will play the last post.

I'm sure it'll all be very understated and respectful , and I'll wear my enamel poppy badge and think of all the (mainly) working class men and woman on both sides who perished in WWI as that conflict above all is the one I most associate the poppy with...

I'm beginning to despair of the jingoism and labelling that's now associated with the poppy though, and all the social media memes telling me if I dont like a poppy picture to do one, etc, etc.

I rue the day that football got involved with it however, and I think FIFA were right for once to advise Scotland and England not to wear it, but our gutter press and opportunistic government got involved and you know the rest.

I'm a keen amateur historian in my spare time, and have read and heard of anecdotal stories of WWI veterans who wouldn't wear a poppy for feelings of guilt for their fallen comrades; and also because they thought Field Marshall Haig was a boorish clown who sent thousands to their deaths needlessly through his gung-ho bloody-mindedness, and they didn't want to be associated with anything to do with him.

So sorry for the long rant, but let's just leave each to their own opinion and choice to wear or not to wear it eh?

[Chorley Hibee]

Every single year.....

His choice and give his background and understandable one.

I know it's an annual thread (and boring to some) but as someone mentioned earlier, the vitriol towards him seems to be growing exponentially year upon year.

This shouldn't be overlooked, as it is much the same as the continuing abuse that Lennon receives, and one that large portions of our society still find acceptable too.

[jacomo]

I know it's an annual thread (and boring to some) but as someone mentioned earlier, the vitriol towards him seems to be growing exponentially year upon year.

This shouldn't be overlooked, as it is much the same as the continuing abuse that Lennon receives, and one that large portions of our society still find acceptable too.


Unfortunately Brexit has seemed to ramp up poppy outrage to a new level (as well as many other undesirable behaviours).

[IGRIGI]

It's becoming like Christmas were you start it a month in advance.

[BegbieHSC]

I don’t wear the poppy for similar background reasons as McClean.

I would never ever dream of disrespecting people who do though. Everyone observes WW1 &WW2 remembrance in their own way. But year in, year out McClean gets horrific abuse for his choice.

And it is because of his background, and it’s completely disgraceful.

100% support the lad with his choice, and I wish everyone else was willing to respect that.

[Dashing Bob S]

Have never worn one. I think because of, rather than in spite of, having relatives who perished in wars. Stupid xenophobic nonsense in my view.

[The Harp Awakes]

I thought the UK was all about freedom of expression and belief? Sadly every year remembrance day is being hijacked more and more by those with a political agenda. It used to be about 1 day; 11 November but now it goes on for weeks and the original meaning and just cause has been completely devalued as a result.

[SirDavidsNapper]

It's just another sad reflection of society these days. True meaning has been lost for petty arguments about religion and politics and "likes" on social media. This isn't aimed at anyone on here but i think some people out there need to take a step back and remember the amount of young lives lost in conflict and ones not lost but ruined as a result on both sides. The biggest thing i have to worry about right now is Hibs losing to St Johnstone. Really hits home this time of year. Don't really care how people pay their respects and if they wear a poppy or not but i think it's so important to pay them in whatever way people want to before we lose perspective all together. Sorry if that offends anyone but i'm just scunnered with everything going on just now.

[Sir David Gray]

Matter of opinion as to whether the Aidan McAnespie song falls into that category. Coincidentally, I read recently that a former British soldier has been charged in connection with his death:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-british-soldier-to-be-prosecuted-for-aidan-mcanespie-killing-1.3536114

Aidan McAnespie may not be an overtly pro-IRA song but it's totally inappropriate to sing it at an event where the majority are paying tribute to members of the British Armed Forces who have died.

There's a time and a place for publicising the death of Aidan McAnespie but that wasn't it and neither is every single week on the football terraces.

[Hiber-nation]

It's just another sad reflection of society these days. True meaning has been lost for petty arguments about religion and politics and "likes" on social media. This isn't aimed at anyone on here but i think some people out there need to take a step back and remember the amount of young lives lost in conflict and ones not lost but ruined as a result on both sides. The biggest thing i have to worry about right now is Hibs losing to St Johnstone. Really hits home this time of year. Don't really care how people pay their respects and if they wear a poppy or not but i think it's so important to pay them in whatever way people want to before we lose perspective all together. Sorry if that offends anyone but i'm just scunnered with everything going on just now.

Great post.

[JimBHibees]

I have to say I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the populist remembrance bit and the 'if you don't shout to the rooftops your love and admiration for the armed forces then you must be against them and consequently should be strung up'.
I say this as a veteran myself, I am proud of my service but I am fed up with the whole overkill and virtue signalling and the amount of respect you show being directly proportionate to the size of your poppy and the number of posts you put on Facebook showing your disgust at someone who didn't prostrate themselves in front of their local memorial after having crawled up to it on hands and knees.
For me remembrance is a very personal thing, I used to get really embarrassed on occasion when people would come up in the street if I was in uniform and and give me the 'thank you for your service'.
I don't parade with legion but I do take myself off and silently remember lost friends.
I wonder sometimes if this and many other things are a sign of a people with nothing to believe in so they latch on to anything.
If you want to wear a poppy do and thank you, if you don't that's fine too.
The virtue signalling by the Jambos and Huns in particular is for me almost equivalent to stolen valour, by shouting about it so much they seem to want to associate themselves with the acts of the soldiers themselves almost as if they were the ones who made the sacrifice. I'll wager any amount that not many of those that shout the loudest were ever on a baseline in NI or on a freezing mountain top in Bosnia or mortared in Iraq or IEDd in Afghanistan or indeed bored rigid in any of those places.
As someone else has already said, the poppies remember lives lost by people who gave their tomorrows so we could have our todays and free from exactly that type of bully boy oppression more commonly associated with brown and black shirts!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

Fantastic post.

[PatHead]

I remember a few years ago working with a sensible Jambo. It was at the time they had massive poppy banners on the back of the main stand.

I asked him what that was all about and he told me about McCraes battalion. I said I felt that both they and the old club had hijacked Remembrance Day. On further discussion it turned out none of his family had served in the First World War. I explained how 2 of my great grandfathers had died at Arras, about seeing my grandmother crumpled on seeing her dad’s grave for the first time in 1979. About her last memory of him hold her as a small girl in the Cowgate before he returned to die at the front.

How it affected her not having a father. He still didn’t get it though as “Hearts whole squad had signed up en-masse”.

Remembrance Day is not about glorifying war or the dead, it is about remembering the victims. The propaganda about poppy month, no longer a day, has gone far too far.

I will remember those who died on November 11th at 11am but I will do it quietly and with respect, not to make a show of it.

I will not wear a poppy but have already contributed to a tin.

[IWasThere2016]

I proudly wear mine. And I've been to the Somme, Thiepval etc. Incredible and unforgettable sight. I was with a former senior IRA member at the time - and he paid his fullest respect.

Many seem unaware that the (Republican) Irish fought in the wars.

[hibbie02]

It's becoming like Christmas were you start it a month in advance.

Yup it p*sses me off watching tv and seeing which virtue signalling moron will be first to get their poppy on screen. I think I saw the first one about October 20th this year.


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[greenpaper55]

Aye, just forget that many gave their lives to stop mass murderers from overrunning Europe, that's what poppy day is for and not to further any political cause. Some folk on here need to get a grip.

[Steve-O]

Such a boring topic that gets dragged up every year. Who actually cares whether or not someone wears a poppy?

True.

Sad fact is there are people out there with nothing better to do than work themselves into a lather about such things. I suspect it’s actually a convenient excuse for such people to be angry because they have nothing more important to focus on.

[CFC1892]

My g grandfather was merchant navy
When he married in Leith 1903 his residence was the SS Dale on the wedding certificate
My g Aunty said that he (her dad) wrote birthday letters for his children when he was at sea that would “miraculously arrive” in the letterbox on each child’s birthday - ( I suspect my g grandmother had something to do with that)
He moved to Australia in the 1960’s and got a job as a railway gate attendant in his late 60’s early 70’s
I remember him smoking a pipe and having a whiskey in Granda’s chair when I was a kid.
He always seemed calm and quiet - he never made a fuss about anything
My Australian ancestors who went to war, that were alive in my time, seemed to also be quiet about their service - g Grandfather who had plastic surgery at Royal Sidcup hospital during WW1, grandfather in New Guinea - they didn’t talk about it
I wear the poppy but am a bit worried where the whole thing is heading
We here have dedicated 1/2 a billion dollars to extend our war memorial in Canberra - but f a increase in support for Returned Service Persons, for war widows, for families of PTSD sufferers
It seems the commercialisation of war history is a global phenomenon practiced by rich and powerful people who, in the event of war, would not be on the front lines .

[PatHead]

Aye, just forget that many gave their lives to stop mass murderers from overrunning Europe, that's what poppy day is for and not to further any political cause. Some folk on here need to get a grip.

Aye it was just our mass murders that won.

I know I am going off track but I remember reading that WW1 was caused by 3 cousins falling out. The 3 cousins were the rulers of Germany, Russia and the UK.

[hibsbollah]

A Carlisle player Jamie Devitt was abused during a game at the weekend for taking off a poppy armband he was wearing. Both sets of fans were booing his touch, shouting the standard abuse etc.

Turns out it wasn't a 'political' protest at all, the armband was too baggy and kept sliding down his arm, as he explained in a baffled tweet afterwards.

As discussed previously, it's just a dog whistle for the far right. And all your poundshop Nazis are falling over themselves to find offence.

[AndyM_1875]

My old man was a Royal Engineers Sergeant and I have 2 Uncles who were Royal Marines.
None of them would dream of wearing the poppy till the week before Remembrance Sunday and never ever in October.

What should be a moments of quiet reflection has turned into dog whistle for ********s.

[Kojock]

17 million people died during WW1 with an astonishing 60 million people losing their lives during WW2. The petty points scoring over the poppy is tiresome and disrespectful to the 77 million war dead.

[lapsedhibee]

I have to say I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the populist remembrance bit and the 'if you don't shout to the rooftops your love and admiration for the armed forces then you must be against them and consequently should be strung up'.
I say this as a veteran myself, I am proud of my service but I am fed up with the whole overkill and virtue signalling and the amount of respect you show being directly proportionate to the size of your poppy and the number of posts you put on Facebook showing your disgust at someone who didn't prostrate themselves in front of their local memorial after having crawled up to it on hands and knees.
For me remembrance is a very personal thing, I used to get really embarrassed on occasion when people would come up in the street if I was in uniform and and give me the 'thank you for your service'.
I don't parade with legion but I do take myself off and silently remember lost friends.
I wonder sometimes if this and many other things are a sign of a people with nothing to believe in so they latch on to anything.
If you want to wear a poppy do and thank you, if you don't that's fine too.
The virtue signalling by the Jambos and Huns in particular is for me almost equivalent to stolen valour, by shouting about it so much they seem to want to associate themselves with the acts of the soldiers themselves almost as if they were the ones who made the sacrifice. I'll wager any amount that not many of those that shout the loudest were ever on a baseline in NI or on a freezing mountain top in Bosnia or mortared in Iraq or IEDd in Afghanistan or indeed bored rigid in any of those places.
As someone else has already said, the poppies remember lives lost by people who gave their tomorrows so we could have our todays and free from exactly that type of bully boy oppression more commonly associated with brown and black shirts!



11/10

[Hibrandenburg]

I was in Verdun last week with my nine year old. Everyone has been educated about the 1st world war but reading or hearing about the numbers is somehow abstract and difficult to imagine. Only when you visit the memorials and graveyards with their thousands of white crosses and grave stones stretching as far as the eye can see, is it then fathomable to understand the true devastation that took place.

On Sunday I'll do what I always do on remembrance day, I'll spend a few minutes reflecting on the many who died in the name of the ambitions of the few. And when I say the many I mean the Brits, Germans, French, Irish and all others whose life's were stopped short in the name of one ideology or the other. It might conflict with my previous statement but I'll also be wearing my poppy to remember the friends I've lost to war and be grateful that it wasn't me. Only then I'll try and lighten up and celebrate my birthday that will forever be intrinsically connected to remembrance day on so many different levels. A sombre day of reflection with good reasons to be thankful.

[Brizo]

I have to say I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with the populist remembrance bit and the 'if you don't shout to the rooftops your love and admiration for the armed forces then you must be against them and consequently should be strung up'.
I say this as a veteran myself, I am proud of my service but I am fed up with the whole overkill and virtue signalling and the amount of respect you show being directly proportionate to the size of your poppy and the number of posts you put on Facebook showing your disgust at someone who didn't prostrate themselves in front of their local memorial after having crawled up to it on hands and knees.
For me remembrance is a very personal thing, I used to get really embarrassed on occasion when people would come up in the street if I was in uniform and and give me the 'thank you for your service'.
I don't parade with legion but I do take myself off and silently remember lost friends.
I wonder sometimes if this and many other things are a sign of a people with nothing to believe in so they latch on to anything.
If you want to wear a poppy do and thank you, if you don't that's fine too.
The virtue signalling by the Jambos and Huns in particular is for me almost equivalent to stolen valour, by shouting about it so much they seem to want to associate themselves with the acts of the soldiers themselves almost as if they were the ones who made the sacrifice. I'll wager any amount that not many of those that shout the loudest were ever on a baseline in NI or on a freezing mountain top in Bosnia or mortared in Iraq or IEDd in Afghanistan or indeed bored rigid in any of those places.
As someone else has already said, the poppies remember lives lost by people who gave their tomorrows so we could have our todays and free from exactly that type of bully boy oppression more commonly associated with brown and black shirts!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

:top marks

Undoubtedly the best post I have read in years of these poppy debate threads.

[Onceinawhile]

Perhaps that's the Falkirk game I'm thinking of? I can't recall who they played last season (Aberdeen maybe?), but as soon as the microphones kicked back in again after the silence was over, the Aberdeen (or whoever it was) fans were universal in booing them.

They also had their giant banner at Celtc park a few years back about the "blood stained poppies".

I believe it was actually "bloo stained poppies" due to their inability to spell 5 letter words. (genuinely).

10 or so years ago they didn't even bother with poppies on shirts, now people without poppies on shirts are apparently parriahs.

All a big nonsense as many above have said far more eloquently than I have. I walked past a "poppy merchandise" van by the art gallery at the mound yesterday selling hoodie etc... Absolute nonsense.

[Lago]

Proud & Green absolutely nailed it for me.

The act of remembrance has to an extent been hijacked by politicians, celebrities etc.

Personally I wear a poppy, in the week prior to the 11th November. I think of my father who as a 15 year old merchant navy navigating cadet was torpedoed in WW1. He never talked much about those times, but once, he did open up to me & admitted he was terrified during that war, imagining being torpedoed again.

I think of my Uncle, served through WW2 1939 to April 1945, he died in the last week of the war, sniped when he left his scout car to carry out reconnaissance.

I think of my Father in Law, fought & evacuated at Dunkirk, landed in France D day2, taken prisoner in Normandy & transported to Poland. As the Russian army moved west he, along with many, were marched through one of the worst winters into Germany, the long march.

It is for these & others like them that I wear my poppy.

[WhileTheChief..]

Most people who don't go to church or chapel still believe in God.

Eh? Where you getting that from? What a completely random to thing to come out with!

None of my friends or family go to church and I don’t know of any of them believing in God.

I’d almost go so far as to say I don’t know anyone who actually believes in God.

I think if there was a national survey we would find that those who believe in a God are very much in the minority in the UK.

[Bristolhibby]

THEY NO GROW OLD. ME REMEMBER FALLEN 🍪🍪🍪

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/16/45/480x339/gallery-1478607718-screen-shot-2016-11-08-at-122113.png

J

[IWasThere2016]

I was in Verdun last week with my nine year old. Everyone has been educated about the 1st world war but reading or hearing about the numbers is somehow abstract and difficult to imagine. Only when you visit the memorials and graveyards with their thousands of white crosses and grave stones stretching as far as the eye can see, is it then fathomable to understand the true devastation that took place.

On Sunday I'll do what I always do on remembrance day, I'll spend a few minutes reflecting on the many who died in the name of the ambitions of the few. And when I say the many I mean the Brits, Germans, French, Irish and all others whose life's were stopped short in the name of one ideology or the other. It might conflict with my previous statement but I'll also be wearing my poppy to remember the friends I've lost to war and be grateful that it wasn't me. Only then I'll try and lighten up and celebrate my birthday that will forever be intrinsically connected to remembrance day on so many different levels. A sombre day of reflection with good reasons to be thankful.

Great post - totally agree about the visits. It is an unforgettable experience.

[Pretty Boy]

Eh? Where you getting that from? What a completely random to thing to come out with!

None of my friends or family go to church and I don’t know of any of them believing in God.

I’d almost go so far as to say I don’t know anyone who actually believes in God.

I think if there was a national survey we would find that those who believe in a God are very much in the minority in the UK.

Off topic but there was a couple of polls 2 or 3 years ago, one was by YouGov, and only 33% of people said they didn't believe in God or a 'higher power'. If that's accurate then the poster may be correct.

[Future17]

Eh? Where you getting that from? What a completely random to thing to come out with!

None of my friends or family go to church and I don’t know of any of them believing in God.

I’d almost go so far as to say I don’t know anyone who actually believes in God.

I think if there was a national survey we would find that those who believe in a God are very much in the minority in the UK.

Who is "the Chief" then? :-)

[Hibernia&Alba]

Off topic but there was a couple of polls 2 or 3 years ago, one was by YouGov, and only 33% of people said they didn't believe in God or a 'higher power'.

67 per cent are afraid to face their own mortality and the absurdity of existence. I would force them to read Camus and de Beauvoir.

Have a great day everyone :greengrin

[Sylar]

Off topic but there was a couple of polls 2 or 3 years ago, one was by YouGov, and only 33% of people said they didn't believe in God or a 'higher power'. If that's accurate then the poster may be correct.

The British Social Attitudes survey that was published in 2017 had 53% of respondants claiming they had no religion.

But I appreciate that "having religion" and believing in a God aren't necessarily synonymous.

[Steve-O]

THEY NO GROW OLD. ME REMEMBER FALLEN 🍪🍪🍪

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/16/45/480x339/gallery-1478607718-screen-shot-2016-11-08-at-122113.png

J

:hilarious

Funny, and also ludicrous

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is that Cookie Monster??

[Sergio sledge]

https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-poppy-has-made-him-t-1830233186

An interesting article comparing attitudes to wearing the poppy in Britain with the reaction to the anthem protests in American sport and whether the reaction to him is partly to do with him being a Northern Irish catholic Also a bit of Hibs content in it.

[IWasThere2016]

https://prruk.org/why-i-will-never-again-wear-a-red-poppy-by-95-year-old-veteran-harry-leslie-smith/

[Nakedmanoncrack]

https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-poppy-has-made-him-t-1830233186

An interesting article comparing attitudes to wearing the poppy in Britain with the reaction to the anthem protests in American sport and whether the reaction to him is partly to do with him being a Northern Irish catholic Also a bit of Hibs content in it.

Good article on the whole.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://deadspin.com/james-mccleans-refusal-to-wear-the-poppy-has-made-him-t-1830233186

An interesting article comparing attitudes to wearing the poppy in Britain with the reaction to the anthem protests in American sport and whether the reaction to him is partly to do with him being a Northern Irish catholic Also a bit of Hibs content in it.

Imagine if Germany had a symbol that was wore once a year to commemorate all those who died fighting in all the past wars. Not unimaginable because like the UK Germany has many monuments mourning the deaths of their sons and daughters in both world wars scattered across the country in most small towns and villages.

Now imagine public outrage towards Jews, Brits, Dutch, Poles, Czechs, French and Belgians who refuse to honour all Germany's war dead including the SS. It's just not gonna happen. People need to get into their heads that not everyone has the same viewpoint towards the British Military and some may even see them legitimately as oppressors.

Yes I can understand the wish to remember those who fell in the name of the country they live in, they were regardless of what war they fought in sons, brothers, fathers and grandfathers of all of us. Just don't expect the rest of the world to share your viewpoint.

[Keith_M]

I'm actually starting to dread Remembrance Day every year, because of all the faux indignation of the Daily Mail Reader and Ultra Loyalist types that think people shouldn't have the right to choose


Is that really the freedom that all those people gave their lives for?

[cocteautwin]

I've been out the UK for 20 years so don't see any poppy type campaign at all where I live. I recall 20 or so years ago in the UK the whole thing was low key and understated but I had a WTF moment the other day when I saw online pictures of an Edinburgh church with a stream of red poppies down the side, some of them knitted by locals and church goers. It's all becoming a bit weird and somewhat sinister celebration rather than just a quiet remembrance of a dark period.

[The Harp Awakes]

I've been out the UK for 20 years so don't see any poppy type campaign at all where I live. I recall 20 or so years ago in the UK the whole thing was low key and understated but I had a WTF moment the other day when I saw online pictures of an Edinburgh church with a stream of red poppies down the side, some of them knitted by locals and church goers. It's all becoming a bit weird and somewhat sinister celebration rather than just a quiet remembrance of a dark period.

Sums the situation up perfectly. 40 years ago Remembrance used to be 1 day of quiet reflection, but one which just about everyone respected. Nowadays it's weeks of in your face glorification of the armed forces which has the effect of diminishing the meaning behind it. Very sad really.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm actually starting to dread Remembrance Day every year, because of all the faux indignation of the Daily Mail Reader and Ultra Loyalist types that think people shouldn't have the right to choose


Is that really the freedom that all those people gave their lives for?

No it isn't. The growth in recent years of 'poppy fascism' is very unseemly, I agree. It's a recent phenomenon, designed to impose conformity and break dissent. I buy a poppy every year, in my case largely to remember a fallen generation in WW1, including the young men on the opposing side, who were sent in their millions to be cut down in the prime of life; and also the fight against fascism in WW2. Other people may buy one for different reasons and some won't buy one. That's okay, and we shouldn't be dictating to others on the issue and certainly we shouldn't be politicising it.

[lapsedhibee]

Sums the situation up perfectly. 40 years ago Remembrance used to be 1 day of quiet reflection, but one which just about everyone respected. Nowadays it's weeks of in your face glorification of the armed forces which has the effect of diminishing the meaning behind it. Very sad really.

Wouldn't even say it was a whole day 40 years ago. It was two minutes on the 11th, and for church goers a couple of hours on Remembrance Sunday morning. People put money in tins for a poppy in the same way they would for any other charity, not to signal something about themselves.

[lapsedhibee]

Who is "the Chief" then? :-)

Reids clearly referencing RP there. :agree:

[AndyM_1875]

Sums the situation up perfectly. 40 years ago Remembrance used to be 1 day of quiet reflection, but one which just about everyone respected. Nowadays it's weeks of in your face glorification of the armed forces which has the effect of diminishing the meaning behind it. Very sad really.

Agreed. When I was a boy (cue the Hovis music) wearing the poppy was all about the generation that was lost in 1914-1918 plus those who had fought fascism in the Second War. But it was mainly about the First World War. Researching my own family history showed that like most Scottish families we had lost sons, uncles, brothers and fathers in the trenches.

At school in Edinburgh I wore the poppy, and we had an 2 minute silence at 11am on the nearest Friday to Remembrance Sunday as a number of pupils from the school had died during the conflict. Now it's been twisted into something it was not 20 years ago.

I haven't wore a poppy for a couple of years now. Perhaps as it's the centenery of the Armistice I will, but I must confess that I am repulsed by some of the stuff that surrounds it now.