Would fullbacks make a difference?

[MWHIBBIES]

I've said negative things about Grays form at times in the past but I think he's been excellent this season and I'm absolutely in love Lewis and what he's given us. I even like Whittaker at right back and think he played fine recently.

But would 2 real attacking full backs make a difference in games like today? So often our fullbacks put in poor crosses today, slowed down play,turned back or couldn't get past their man 1v1. Gray offers a scoring threat but his crossing is poor as well. Lewis and Gray are much better as defenders.

In mowbrays team Murphy and a younger Whittaker provided a brilliant attacking threat and constantly drove us forward. I'm not suggesting replacing SDG and Lewis because they still have a big part to play but an at least one very strong offensive full back would give us another dimension.

[J-C]

Unfortunately the movement at times from the midfield was poor and that slowed the pace down. Don't know how many times Horgan moved into the centre and then left Stevenson no one to link up with on the left. On the other hand Whittaker had a lot of the ball and linked up with Boyle but his distribution and crosses were shocking, Gray is a fine wingback and he's missed.

[MWHIBBIES]

Unfortunately the movement at times from the midfield was poor and that slowed the pace down. Don't know how many times Horgan moved into the centre and then left Stevenson no one to link up with on the left. On the other hand Whittaker had a lot of the ball and linked up with Boyle but his distribution and crosses were shocking, Gray is a fine wingback and he's missed.
I don't really think Gray is a fine wing back. He isn't a great crosses, isn't really a great passer, technically not that special. He often just stands marked not offering anything unless it's a high ball to him. I think he's a fine fullback but offensive he doesn't offer that much.

[Smartie]

Gray's a fantastic player and we're really missing him.

Whittaker had a couple of good chances to put in a decent cross under little pressure that he made a horrible mess of. In fairness to Whittaker this is out of character, his delivery into the box is normally good.

Even when balls went into the box though they were meat and drink to the Saints defenders who dealt with everything easily under little pressure.

I don't think the fullbacks are where I'd be pointing the finger today either.

[Tyler Durden]

Presumably Nelom is injured at the moment but when fit he really needs a chance to play. We know what Lewis can do and he's very reliable but he can have periods where performances dip for 2-3 games (understandably) but he keeps his place. He was average today but wasn't alone there.

Whittaker simply shouldn't be starting when we had so many other options. His strength was always his ability and use of the ball but that seems to have deserted him. I'm in the minority in thinking he was crap at Tynecastle as well, other than doing the basics. Hopefully this Harry is building up fitness as the failure to select him today is a worry

[beensaidbefore]

I don't really think Gray is a fine wing back. He isn't a great crosses, isn't really a great passer, technically not that special. He often just stands marked not offering anything unless it's a high ball to him. I think he's a fine fullback but offensive he doesn't offer that much.

How many goals has he got this season? You can't say he offers nothing offensively.

[BoomtownHibees]

I don't really think Gray is a fine wing back. He isn't a great crosses, isn't really a great passer, technically not that special. He often just stands marked not offering anything unless it's a high ball to him. I think he's a fine fullback but offensive he doesn't offer that much.

He’s scored 5 goals in 12 games this season. If that’s not offering much offensively then I don’t know what is.

[MWHIBBIES]

He’s scored 5 goals in 12 games this season. If that’s not offering much offensively then I don’t know what is.

If he keeps up that scoring rate I'd agree. Except he isn't going to and I'm talking about a bigger picture.

[MWHIBBIES]

Gray's a fantastic player and we're really missing him.

Whittaker had a couple of good chances to put in a decent cross under little pressure that he made a horrible mess of. In fairness to Whittaker this is out of character, his delivery into the box is normally good.

Even when balls went into the box though they were meat and drink to the Saints defenders who dealt with everything easily under little pressure.

I don't think the fullbacks are where I'd be pointing the finger today either.
I'm not pointing the finger based on today. Not the first time I've thought this. These days all the best teams have at least one very strong offensive wing back. It can make a big difference.

[Tyler Durden]

I don't really think Gray is a fine wing back. He isn't a great crosses, isn't really a great passer, technically not that special. He often just stands marked not offering anything unless it's a high ball to him. I think he's a fine fullback but offensive he doesn't offer that much.

I would disagree. Gray might be a bit one dimensional but he brings a directness and aggression to attacking, that is superior to our other full backs (albeit not to Boyle if comparing as a wing back). Gray will typically go outside his opponent and try to hit the bye line. His assist to Cummings in the 1-0 Derby replay on the way to winning the cup being a prime example.

If we're playing a back 4, neither Whittaker or Ambrose get close to offering what Gray does.

[Smartie]

I'm not pointing the finger based on today. Not the first time I've thought this. These days all the best teams have at least one very strong offensive wing back. It can make a big difference.

It can, but I suppose it depends what you have elsewhere in your team.

Ours do fine, and often our CB's provide more of an attacking threat than most.

I do think ours suit having wingers in front of them, who they can assist and overlap rather than relying on them to be our main outlet out wide.

The shape of the team today was weird. I still don't know what we were trying to do. It didn't work, whatever it was.

[LaMotta]

I don't really think Gray is a fine wing back. He isn't a great crosses, isn't really a great passer, technically not that special. He often just stands marked not offering anything unless it's a high ball to him. I think he's a fine fullback but offensive he doesn't offer that much.

Honestly no idea what you see so much of in Slivka when you make this assessment of Gray.

[MWHIBBIES]

Honestly no idea what you see so much of in Slivka when you make this assessment of Gray.

Slivka constantly looks for space, plays with his head up, carries the ball well forward, can beat players. He has a totally different skill set.

What about my assessment of Gray is wrong?

[LaMotta]

Slivka constantly looks for space, plays with his head up, carries the ball well forward, can beat players. He has a totally different skill set.

What about my assessment of Gray is wrong?

Slivka rarely beats a man and the other three things you list are things that you learn from the age of 5.

Grays contribution for Hibs has been phenomenal, that you are stating otherwise baffles me:confused:

[MWHIBBIES]

Slivka rarely beats a man and the other three things you list are things that you learn from the age of 5.

Grays contribution for Hibs has been phenomenal, that you are stating otherwise baffles me:confused:

Gray rarely beats a man. Slivka does it quite alot. With a quick one two or a quick movement. Are they? Why do so many of our players struggle then. Gray especially often just stands marked by the winger not offering any option while we have the ball.

Of course his contribution has been amazing. He is a legend and has been in good form this season. Does that suddenly make his crossing good? He offers brilliant physical attributes, great aggression, drives us forward, scores alot of goals for a fullback. He isn't technically a brilliant footballer though.

[Brooster]

Both full backs were particularly poor today. I would be looking to replace both for the next game.

[Smartie]

Both full backs were particularly poor today. I would be looking to replace both for the next game.

I didn't think Lewis played badly at all, but given the attacking side of his game is meant to be the strongest, we should be expecting more from Whittaker than we got today.

[B.H.F.C]

I didn't think Lewis played badly at all, but given the attacking side of his game is meant to be the strongest, we should be expecting more from Whittaker than we got today.

Neither were good. The quality of crossing from both was terrible. Lewis only slightly better as he at least kept some of them in the park.

[Blaster]

Difficult to hit a one man target

[sorrow sorrow]

Every top team has two quality fullbacks but the problem is these guys cost big money.i think SDG and Lewis have been brilliant for hibs but if we want to go up another level I think the fullback positions have to be addressed,hopefully Nelom and harry turn out to be inspired signings on our budget

[Brooster]

I didn't think Lewis played badly at all, but given the attacking side of his game is meant to be the strongest, we should be expecting more from Whittaker than we got today.

He was getting ripped to shreds and his distribution was terrible. If that's not playing badly I don't know what is.

[J-C]

He was getting ripped to shreds and his distribution was terrible. If that's not playing badly I don't know what is.

It's the usual slag off Lewis post from you, he could get MOM score a hat trick and you'd still chastise him.

[Brooster]

It's the usual slag off Lewis post from you, he could get MOM score a hat trick and you'd still chastise him.

You thought he played well?

[Dancehibs]

He was getting ripped to shreds and his distribution was terrible. If that's not playing badly I don't know what is.
Stop making stuff up. How many times did he get ripped to shreds?

[Hiber-nation]

Thought Lewis was as good as anyone yesterday.

[Allant1981]

Neither were good. The quality of crossing from both was terrible. Lewis only slightly better as he at least kept some of them in the park.

the crossing from the right was really bad, one of thw crosses almost went out the stand! lewis hit a couple of decent crosses, but we need someone in there to take the chances, think the one maclaren hit at the keeper came from a stevenson cross?

[J-C]

You thought he played well?

Not as well as he can but was fairly solid most of the game.

[Brooster]

Stop making stuff up. How many times did he get ripped to shreds?

Numerous. In the first half they got in behind Stevenson lots to get crosses in. Teams target him because he is the weak link.

[Allant1981]

Numerous. In the first half they got in behind Stevenson lots to get crosses in. Teams target him because he is the weak link.

weak link? he has played really well consistently for the last few years, other managers may think he is the weak link but he certainly is not

[Brooster]

Opinions eh.

[we are hibs]

Gray is the best full back we have. Mavrias should have started yesterday as Whittaker is honking. Can't believe there are still some defending him.

Where is nelom too?

[MWHIBBIES]

Numerous. In the first half they got in behind Stevenson lots to get crosses in. Teams target him because he is the weak link.

They don't target him and he isn't a weak link. Made up.

[MWHIBBIES]

Gray is the best full back we have. Mavrias should have started yesterday as Whittaker is honking. Can't believe there are still some defending him.

Where is nelom too?
What did Whittaker do that was so honking yesterday? We got worse without him and started getting killed down that side.

[Weegreenman]

To answer the OP question, absolutely yes! I’m a great believer in wingers/wingbacks hitting the bye line and cutting balls back across the “danger area” Lewis does ok but I think a more attacking player could well help us create better opportunities, especially at home. David Gray is a perfect example of the type of player we could have on the other side. I still think there’s room for Lewis, don’t get me wrong but in more of a defensive formation.

[BoomtownHibees]

What did Whittaker do that was so honking yesterday? We got worse without him and started getting killed down that side.

Put the ball out the park at least 2 or 3 times from decent crossing positions for a start

[hibee_girl]

Put the ball out the park at least 2 or 3 times from decent crossing positions for a start

As did Mallan

[BoomtownHibees]

As did Mallan

The thread is about full backs and the question was “what did Whittaker do that was so bad” or words to that affect.

Mallan’s delivery yesterday was as poor as I have seen it. Again, at least twice in the first half, his corners missed everybody in the box

[MWHIBBIES]

Put the ball out the park at least 2 or 3 times from decent crossing positions for a start
Gray also does that regularly. His crossing is no better.

[BoomtownHibees]

Gray also does that regularly. His crossing is no better.

Your question was about what Whittaker done yesterday that was so honking and I gave an answer.

As an aside, I don’t agree re Gray

[MWHIBBIES]

Your question was about what Whittaker done yesterday that was so honking and I gave an answer.

As an aside, I don’t agree re Gray

I find it strange everyone notices every flaw in Whittaker's game and ignores the ones in Gray's.

[Tyler Durden]

What did Whittaker do that was so honking yesterday? We got worse without him and started getting killed down that side.

His distribution was appalling and it wasn’t just his crossing. Lucky if he completed 30% of his passes. He also has a tendency now to lose possession and jog back slowly. Not long after doing that yesterday he got hooked.

It was pretty obvious that he played poorly yesterday, hence him being subbed. What happened after he left the park is irrelevant when assessing Whittaker’s performance.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The thread might be about full backs, but that doesn't really address the here and now and especially yesterday's game. In the absence of a true overlapping full back on the left and the fact that bye and large Whittaker's crossing tends to be poor … look at yesterday when he did brilliantly to fashion a crossing opportunity and then lumped the ball out for a bye kick, not to mention the two in the first half he aimed at some non existent striker on the far side of the box … I am at a loss to understand why one of the best right wingers in Scotland, possibly 'the' best, was used as a striker and an international left winger in Horgan seemed to be used as a left sided midfield player.

We had all the tools yesterday to play with width and get at both St Johnstone full backs and we didn't use them, instead sticking rigidly to the concept of wingbacks who on the day were far less effective at getting round the back of their defence than two wingers would have been. The other point being that wingers who get round the back are usually left with the option of smashing a low cross into the box for the likes of MacLaren … high crosses played by the likes of Stevenson and Whittaker into the box were and are meat and drink to a 10 foot tall keeper and a well organised centre half pairing, especially when you have folk who are Hobbits in comparison challenging for those crosses.

St Johnstone did what clubs have been doing for years against us. They were happy for Stevenson to be the out ball from the back because they knew he would have to play the ball either back to Ambrose or Milligan or infield where they were ready to close it down. They knew that Whittaker was the only out ball for a long punt up the park and made sure that even if he did win it they had covered any Hibs player it might fall to, as they did well for the most part.

Yesterday wasn't about the lack of good attacking full backs, it was very much about a failure to set up a team to utilise the weapons we did have available on the day.

[MWHIBBIES]

His distribution was appalling and it wasn’t just his crossing. Lucky if he completed 30% of his passes. He also has a tendency now to lose possession and jog back slowly. Not long after doing that yesterday he got hooked.

It was pretty obvious that he played poorly yesterday, hence him being subbed. What happened after he left the park is irrelevant when assessing Whittaker’s performance.

Just making random numbers up. 3 minutes into the game he played a great pass with his left that took 2 players outthe game and put Boyle away.

It was a poor pass from Hyndman to Whittakers standing leg and he didn't control it. He didn't jog back, he ran back. Hyndman was also hooked right after that wasn't he? You probably missed that.

Of course it isnt irrelevant, don't be silly. You are knocking his offensive contribution but defensively he was sound and his replacement wasn't.