Why are Hearts fans so sectarian?

[BullsCloseHibs]

It's a major problem for them and they just don't seem to want to address it. The whole situation should utterly embarrass Anne Budge and co. A large group of their fans are an utter disgrace. The sectarian disease is live and well down Gorgie way.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

They always have been and always will be and it's set to get worse now in my opinion. Budge needs to root out these ********s and ban them sine die, will never happen of course. I really worry we are going to lose him.

[edinburghhibee]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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[Barney McGrew]

It’s quite simple - because they’re allowed to be.

Budge is quick to shout about the behaviour of other teams fans, but strangely loses her voice and ability to type out a statement when it comes to condemning the growing elements in her own support.

[Bostonhibby]

They've no real sense of identity.

Being born in a run down dance hall isn't really a big establishment thing to sing about, they had a couple of songs to mock Hibs with but that's exploded on them so as their village idiots go trawling around for an identity the decent hearts fans seem to be allowing a growing minority far too much influence as they drag them further into the Sevco mire.

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[Green_one]

It's a major problem for them and they just don't seem to want to address it. The whole situation should utterly embarrass Anne Budge and co. A large group of their fans are an utter disgrace. The sectarian disease is live and well down Gorgie way.

Unfortunately the knuckledragging minority are louder and more obvious than the sensible fans. It is a situation that has improved over the years but there is a resistant group who hang onto the old prejudices. I had hoped it would all die out eventually but one generation passes its sick legacy onto another.

I feel the problem has always existed at the top levels of Scottish football. No-one actually wants to fix it. :rolleyes:

[SquashedFrogg]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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Our sectarian mob? Where do you sit at ER? For a minute I thought you were comparing us to Hearts and The Rangers.

Scary approach to a real issue in 2018

[SChibs]

They want to feel important.

[Carheenlea]

Watching the Hibs TV highlights earlier, and there was no commentary, just crowd noises. The Billy Boys chant in particular that didn’t tail off when it got to the bit about being up to their knees in Fenian blood. Sung with gusto by a large chunk of the Wheatfield stand. A poisonous club.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Our sectarian mob? Where do you sit at ER? For a minute I thought you were comparing us to Hearts and The Rangers.

Scary approach to a real issue in 2018

We need to lead by example and have a zero tollerance approach to sectarianism at our club. It's a delusion, and ultimately the essence of the problem, to deny tgat it exists in our club. It's a very small minority, but it exists.

[edinburghhibee]

Our sectarian mob? Where do you sit at ER? For a minute I thought you were comparing us to Hearts and The Rangers.

Scary approach to a real issue in 2018

Section 48 east stand very back row.

Where you at the game on Wednesday? Anyone who denies that we have a sectarian element in our fan base is either deluded or stupid


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[Malthibby]

[QUOTE=edinburghhibee;5594015]I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



We don't have the same level of problem as they have down Gorgie way, but if we have fans singing this kind of garbage we do need to address it. I don't here it at ER
but if we have an element of the away support who think it's cool to joke about murdered soldiers or a foreign terrorist organisation they need dealt with. I remember IRA
folk going around with collection buckets at Paddy's testimonial & certainly where I was they were told to gtf. No place at Easter Road, or for erseholes who chuck things at
players or other fans.
Hearts have a much bigger problem, but we are deluding ourselves if we think that means we don't need to clean up own own stuff.

[Carheenlea]

Section 48 east stand very back row.

Where you at the game on Wednesday? Anyone who denies that we have a sectarian element in our fan base is either deluded or stupid


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I’m deluded and stupid then. Will deny rigourously that we have any sectarian problems within our support.

[edinburghhibee]

[QUOTE=edinburghhibee;5594015]I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



We don't have the same level of problem as they have down Gorgie way, but if we have fans singing this kind of garbage we do need to address it. I don't here it at ER
but if we have an element of the away support who think it's cool to joke about murdered soldiers or a foreign terrorist organisation they need dealt with. I remember IRA
folk going around with collection buckets at Paddy's testimonial & certainly where I was they were told to gtf. No place at Easter Road, or for erseholes who chuck things at
players or other fans.
Hearts have a much bigger problem, but we are deluding ourselves if we think that means we don't need to clean up own own stuff.

Agree with this there’s no place in football for it not just at ER


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[Elephant Stone]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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Our own sectarian mob, Jesus Christ. I've heard Hibs fans singing the racist Edinburgh song more times than I've heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song, are we a racist club as well? I would bet that people will have heard more racist shouts from the stands than sectarian ones too. You will get a hand full of idiots at every ground who will say offensive things, we are no worse than a regular club. Hearts, on the other hand, regularly have thousands of their fans in the stadium signing a sectarian song, and their official singing section seem up to their knees in it. We are in no way comparable here, absolutely ridiculous comment.

[edinburghhibee]

I’m deluded and stupid then. Will deny rigourously that we have any sectarian problems within our support.

No problem least your admitting it. But I’ll put this to you, your telling me you haven’t heard the Stokesy’s da loves the ra song??



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[WoreTheGreen]

[QUOTE=Malthibby;5594044]

Agree with this there’s no place in football for it not just at ER


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Nonsense son

[edinburghhibee]

Our own sectarian mob, Jesus Christ. I've heard Hibs fans singing the racist Edinburgh song more times than I've heard Hibs fans singing a sectarian song, are we a racist club as well? I would bet that people will have heard more racist shouts from the stands than sectarian ones too. You will get a hand full of idiots at every ground who will say offensive things, we are no worse than a regular club. Hearts, on the other hand, regularly have thousands of their fans in the stadium signing a sectarian song, and their official singing section seem up to their knees in it. We are in no way comparable here, absolutely ridiculous comment.

Its more than a handful. And regardless of how many there is singing it it shouldn’t be anywhere near our club


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[edinburghhibee]

[QUOTE=edinburghhibee;5594061]

Nonsense son

What’s nonsense about it?



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[TheReg!]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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Please don’t tell me they were singing the Lee Rigby song, if so that is utterly shameful and embarrassing especially when there is hundreds of ex and still serving soldiers who follow our great club.

[bigwheel]

Section 48 east stand very back row.

Where you at the game on Wednesday? Anyone who denies that we have a sectarian element in our fan base is either deluded or stupid


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You do realise that singing about the IRA and Lee Rigby (appalling as that particular thing may be if true) are political issues and not sectarian??

Popcorn at the ready ..... maybe we are not as deluded as you suggest ...

[Elephant Stone]

Its more than a handful. And regardless of how many there is singing it it shouldn’t be anywhere near our club


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Neither should racism but hearing a few racist comments doesn't make us a racist club. Cannot believe what I am reading. Our own sectarian mob, ****ing hell.​

[Carheenlea]

No problem least your admitting it. But I’ll put this to you, your telling me you haven’t heard the Stokesy’s da loves the ra song??



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Heard it once sung by about 4 fans at Partick Thistle away. A light hearted but daft song that never really took off. It’s not really a sectarian song though.

[AgentDaleCooper]

You do realise that singing about the IRA and Lee Rigby (appalling as that particular thing may be if true) are political issues and not sectarian??

Popcorn at the ready ..... maybe we are not as deluded as you suggest ...
IRA would be political and sectarian issue...by definition basically...

[bigwheel]

IRA would be political and sectarian issue...by definition basically...

Eh. No! There are people of many religions that support the cause of a United Ireland..the IRA wasn’t a “catholic” organisation

[WoreTheGreen]

Neither should racism but hearing a few racist comments doesn't make us a racist club. Cannot believe what I am reading. Our own sectarian mob, ****ing hell.​

Leave this wee clown well alone

[kaimendhibs]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEh, our sectarian mob? Really?

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[bigwheel]

Neither should racism but hearing a few racist comments doesn't make us a racist club. Cannot believe what I am reading. Our own sectarian mob, ****ing hell.​

100 percent with you in this one. We have no sectarian issues at our club.

[edinburghhibee]

You do realise that singing about the IRA and Lee Rigby (appalling as that particular thing may be if true) are political issues and not sectarian??

Popcorn at the ready ..... maybe we are not as deluded as you suggest ...

I take that on board these examples are political issues.

I can assure you it’s true. I’m not saying that we have a bigger or smaller element of these groups in our support tho I’m just pointing out that before we start mud slinging at hearts we need to take a look at ourselves.



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[kaimendhibs]

Please don’t tell me they were singing the Lee Rigby song, if so that is utterly shameful and embarrassing especially when there is hundreds of ex and still serving soldiers who follow our great club.I didn't hear it and never have

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[TelaStella]

As a couple others have touched on its down to a lack of identity and to be frank a tad of jealousy I think when looking over at us. We are a club of proud history, heritage and a massive identity though some on here want nothing to do with certain aspects of it.. we’ve always been widely regarded for our classy style of football since the 1950’s and an extremely active and colourful fan base. They on the other hand have absolutely nothing as such going for them. Granted for a good few years they have had the upper hand in the derby fixture and you have to hand them the said victories such as 5-1 etc as well as their big cup exploits however over the past couple years we as a team and a club have put all of that to bed leaving them with zero to sing and take the high ground on. This I feel is the main issues for our neighbour’s quick fall to utter shame. I always have and always will hate hearts but I must admit I do feel a real sense of pity for them as a club when they have nothing better to do than carry about St George’s crosses banners with Lee Rigby on the front and frankly the levels of trying to imitate the huns because they think it’s “cool” is overwhelming embarrassing. The funniest thing about it all is they seem to justify it all because of our so called relationship with Celtic, a relationship as far as I’m aware does not exist as I can’t stand them as much as any other team in Scotland and probably speak for every hibs fan when I say that whether you take pride in our Irish roots like me, or not.


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[bigwheel]

I take that on board these examples are political issues.

I can assure you it’s true. I’m not saying that we have a bigger or smaller element of these groups in our support tho I’m just pointing out that before we start mud slinging at hearts we need to take a look at ourselves.



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If you are saying we have some pricks who embarrass the club at times. And songs that are pathetic - I’d add the recent mercer song as an example ...Yes! Of course we will...

But can I ask that you change the language you use ? to suggest its sectarian isn’t true...we don’t have religious oriented hate songs at our club ..

[edinburghhibee]

I didn't hear it and never have

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Why would I come on here and lie about hearing it. I heard it and so did others on this forum. It definitely was sung around the Murrayfield hotel area and hopefully it’s never sung again.



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[007]

Red hand of Ulster flags in their singing section. I wonder if the ordinary fans who donated to the singing section knew their money was going to spent on them.

[linlithgowhibbie]

I’m deluded and stupid then. Will deny rigourously that we have any sectarian problems within our support.

Sorry Carheenlea but you need to open your eyes and ears.
I left Tynie at the final whistle on Wednesday disgusted at what I had heard and seen coming from a number of our fans.
I was in H section row 12 and the amount of stuff flung from fans in front of me towards the Hearts Mob was terrible. That in itself isn't sectarian but really pi@@ed me off. A lot of that was probably in retaliation to what had been flung into our section but still shouldn't happen. Polis were advised but did hee haw to stop it.
There were numerous shouts of "Orange Barstewards" directed towards the Gorgie Loyal mob as well.

I live in hope that there is no repeat but won't hold my breath.:nlgwa

[Earlydelivery]

If I hear any crap like that I’ll have something to say

[SquashedFrogg]

Section 48 east stand very back row.

Where you at the game on Wednesday? Anyone who denies that we have a sectarian element in our fan base is either deluded or stupid


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Erm, I smell ....

I sit a few rows in front of there. Happy to chat tomorrow? You're making stuff up mate, best stop while you're behind.

[JohnMcM]

Please don’t tell me they were singing the Lee Rigby song, if so that is utterly shameful and embarrassing especially when there is hundreds of ex and still serving soldiers who follow our great club.

That includes me and 4 other family members.

All of us Hibs fans to the core.

Call that song and their motives in singing it what you want; those singing it probably do not know, will never understand and cannot comprehend the hurt and anger they have generated in fellow Hibs fans.

[The_Horde]

It's all they have left. We wiped out all of their songs in 2016.

[A Hi-Bee]

The answer is very simple they just cannot afford the bus/train fare through to Ipox.

[The_Horde]

Erm, I smell ....

I sit a few rows in front of there. Happy to chat tomorrow? You're making stuff up mate, best stop while you're behind.

I was in Malones pre game and there's a number of hibs fans who will pretend to be on certain game days to cite a reaction but I'll tell you now they're about as clued up on it all as I am with Rugby. Hearts definitely have the upper hand, I know hearts fans who have red hands tattooed on them ffs.

[.Sean.]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIhope any Hibs supporter singing the Lee Rigby song gets seven shades smashed out of them. I like to think the Hibs support will self police this nonsense. There are thousands of current an ex military personnel amongst our support

[Gloucester Hibs]

ISongs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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Nobody on this thread (thus far) able to back this up? Whereabouts in the Roseburn was this sung?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Nobody on this thread (thus far) able to back this up? Whereabouts in the Roseburn was this sung?

It's bull

[Carheenlea]

Sorry Carheenlea but you need to open your eyes and ears.
I left Tynie at the final whistle on Wednesday disgusted at what I had heard and seen coming from a number of our fans.
I was in H section row 12 and the amount of stuff flung from fans in front of me towards the Hearts Mob was terrible. That in itself isn't sectarian but really pi@@ed me off. A lot of that was probably in retaliation to what had been flung into our section but still shouldn't happen. Polis were advised but did hee haw to stop it.
There were numerous shouts of "Orange Barstewards" directed towards the Gorgie Loyal mob as well.

I live in hope that there is no repeat but won't hold my breath.:nlgwa

I was there also and agree that the behaviour of some of our fans fell below acceptable levels, but we need to be careful what we are accusing them of. Sectarianism is not one of them.

[Sioux]

You do realise that singing about the IRA and Lee Rigby (appalling as that particular thing may be if true) are political issues and not sectarian??

Popcorn at the ready ..... maybe we are not as deluded as you suggest ...

F off with that ****

[bigwheel]

F off with that ****

What are you on about ? Never heard them and I’m not supporting these chants ..but they are not about religion ..

[Skol]

Our sectarian mob? Where do you sit at ER? For a minute I thought you were comparing us to Hearts and The Rangers.

Scary approach to a real issue in 2018

There was a guy somewhere behind me shouting sectarian abuse at the Hearts fans. It exists.

There was another also shouting spectacle abuse and kept apologising to me as I too am a spectacle wearer.

[neil7908]

Eh. No! There are people of many religions that support the cause of a United Ireland..the IRA wasn’t a “catholic” organisation

Strange comments on the issue. I'll pose a question - how many protestants do you think are or were in the IRA? I don't think you can really separate religion and politics from Ireland.

Of course you can support Irish nationalism and be a protestant, Hindu, atheist etc but that's not what the poster is claiming the chants were about, they were about the IRA which is clearly aligned to Catholicism.

[marinello59]

Strange comments on the issue. I'll pose a question - how many protestants do you think are or were in the IRA? I don't think you can really separate religion and politics from Ireland.

Of course you can support Irish nationalism and be a protestant, Hindu, atheist etc but that's not what the poster is claiming the chants were about, they were about the IRA which is clearly aligned to Catholicism.

The IRA isn’t aligned with Catholicism.

[Elephant Stone]

There was a guy somewhere behind me shouting sectarian abuse at the Hearts fans. It exists.

There was another also shouting spectacle abuse and kept apologising to me as I too am a spectacle wearer.

What did you hear being shouted?

[Skol]

What did you hear being shouted?

Dirty Orange......

and

Ya speccy virgin *****

[Lancs Harp]

Reading the threads of the last couple of days I'd say both clubs have issues. Any third party reading our forum since the derby would have no clear idea what Hibs fans thought on the matter, the opinions are that diverse.

We are a football club not a political institution. Its a game, for entertainment.

[hibeerealist]

:aok:
It’s quite simple - because they’re allowed to be.

Budge is quick to shout about the behaviour of other teams fans, but strangely loses her voice and ability to type out a statement when it comes to condemning the growing elements in her own support.

:aok: Spot on BM

[AgentDaleCooper]

The IRA isn’t aligned with Catholicism.

True, it's just a coincidence :aok:

[Elephant Stone]

Dirty Orange......

and

Ya speccy virgin *****

There were plenty people acting like orangemen in the Hearts end so I would say that's a legitimate thing to call them on Wednesday.

[One Day]

Strange comments on the issue. I'll pose a question - how many protestants do you think are or were in the IRA? I don't think you can really separate religion and politics from Ireland.

Of course you can support Irish nationalism and be a protestant, Hindu, atheist etc but that's not what the poster is claiming the chants were about, they were about the IRA which is clearly aligned to Catholicism.

Quite a lot actualy

[Keith_M]

You do realise that singing about the IRA and Lee Rigby (appalling as that particular thing may be if true) are political issues and not sectarian??

Popcorn at the ready ..... maybe we are not as deluded as you suggest ...




Deary me



:faf:

[neil7908]

Quite a lot actualy

Genuinely interested to know if you have any references to back this up?

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assert a link between the IRA and Catholicism.

[bigwheel]

Strange comments on the issue. I'll pose a question - how many protestants do you think are or were in the IRA? I don't think you can really separate religion and politics from Ireland.

Of course you can support Irish nationalism and be a protestant, Hindu, atheist etc but that's not what the poster is claiming the chants were about, they were about the IRA which is clearly aligned to Catholicism.

Not it isn’t. There is no direct religious relationship with the fight for a United Ireland

[CropleyWasGod]

Genuinely interested to know if you have any references to back this up?

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assert a link between the IRA and Catholicism.Quick Google brings this up....

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-Protestant-members-of-Sinn-Fein-and-Catholic-members-of-the-Democratic-Unionist-Party

And don't forget that many of the original Fenian Brotherhood were Protestant.

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[superbam]

im highly sceptical any hibs fans were singing anything about Lee Rigby

[bigwheel]

im highly sceptical any hibs fans were singing anything about Lee Rigby

Me too. Would be an appalling low....never heard anything like that from Hibs fans in decades...

[Keith_M]

Quick Google brings this up....

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-Protestant-members-of-Sinn-Fein-and-Catholic-members-of-the-Democratic-Unionist-Party

And don't forget that many of the original Fenian Brotherhood were Protestant.




Anybody that thinks there's no sectarian divide between the Republcan and Loyalist sides is deluded.

I fully accept that it probably was the case a century or so ago but Northern Ireland's sectarian divide has, since the troubles started 45 or so years ago, been (with a few extra groups thrown in) Republican-IRA-SinnFein-RC and Loxalist-UVF-DUP-Protestant. Not every Catholic or Protestant supported those groups but there's surely no denying that's how people over there have been split for a long time.


Of course it's sectarian, and a very ugly thing to want to celebrate.

[Hibrandenburg]

What are you on about ? Never heard them and I’m not supporting these chants ..but they are not about religion ..

Aye very smart :rolleyes:

Bit like saying Tommy Robinson/Adolf Hitler aren't racist because Muslims/Jews aren't a race.

[bigwheel]

Anybody that thinks there's no sectarian divide between the Republcan and Loyalist sides is deluded.

I fully accept that it probably was the case a century or so ago but Northern Ireland's sectarian divide has, since the troubles started 45 or so years ago, been (with a few extra groups thrown in) Republican-IRA-SinnFein-RC and Loxalist-UVF-DUP-Protestant. Not every Catholic or Protestant supported those groups but there's surely no denying that's how people over there have been split for a long time.


Of course it's sectarian, and a very ugly thing to want to celebrate.

Quite a lot of people throwing this deluded word about these days..nice hyperbole but usually lacks substance

of course there is indeed a deep sectarian divide in the politics of Ireland. Completely. agree....That’s not what me and some others are saying though - simply stating that the IRA and supporting a free Ireland is not a “catholic thing”..it has diverse support.

[Keith_M]

Aye very smart :rolleyes:

Bit like saying Tommy Robinson/Adolf Hitler aren't racist because Muslims/Jews aren't a race.


:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Anybody that thinks there's no sectarian divide between the Republcan and Loyalist sides is deluded.

I fully accept that it probably was the case a century or so ago but Northern Ireland's sectarian divide has, since the troubles started 45 or so years ago, been (with a few extra groups thrown in) Republican-IRA-SinnFein-RC and Loxalist-UVF-DUP-Protestant. Not every Catholic or Protestant supported those groups but there's surely no denying that's how people over there have been split for a long time.


Of course it's sectarian, and a very ugly thing to want to celebrate.He asked a question about whether any IRA members were Protestant. That quick search will help him decide.

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[mentalhibee]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



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Absolute nonsense, Never heard any sectarian songs ever in the Hibs end.

[bigwheel]

Aye very smart :rolleyes:

Bit like saying Tommy Robinson/Adolf Hitler aren't racist because Muslims/Jews aren't a race.

It’s not at all..that is a crass point to make

if I’ve been clumsy with including the Lee Rigby reference then I’ll take it back - because that is not about politics or religion - simply about hate...not something I hope Hibs are ever associated with

The point I was seeking to make though is that it is a lazy reference to suggest support the IRA or a United Ireland is sectarian..regardless of political Opinion it is not about religion ...

[One Day]

Genuinely interested to know if you have any references to back this up?

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assert a link between the IRA and Catholicism.

Most people do link the two, I did/do too but have read a few articles and forums. I've also spoken to people who are more clued up on this than me, (general conversation I hasten to add as I have no great interest in either side of the divide). The following is an extract from a forum / discussion.

The whole Catholics v. Protestants kick is a lie. The PIRA fought to free Northern Ireland from the UK in order to have a 100% united Ireland. IRA members were Irish by ethnicity and were mostly Catholic due to Ireland being historically Catholic and there was a large group of Protestants in the IRA as well. The IRA was big with those of Irish ethnic backgrounds despite religion. The Loyalists or the “Protestants” are not Irish but are instead Ulster-Scots which is an ethnic background made up of colonists from England and Scotland. Hence the UDA and UVF being for Britain due to their ethnicity being British not Irish. The English government and media were the first to use Catholics v. Protestants.

It just puts a different slant on things rather than simplifying is as a religious conflict, don't you think

[bigwheel]

Most people do link the two, I did/do too but have read a few articles and forums. I've also spoken to people who are more clued up on this than me, (general conversation I hasten to add as I have no great interest in either side of the divide). The following is an extract from a forum / discussion.

The whole Catholics v. Protestants kick is a lie. The PIRA fought to free Northern Ireland from the UK in order to have a 100% united Ireland. IRA members were Irish by ethnicity and were mostly Catholic due to Ireland being historically Catholic and there was a large group of Protestants in the IRA as well. The IRA was big with those of Irish ethnic backgrounds despite religion. The Loyalists or the “Protestants” are not Irish but are instead Ulster-Scots which is an ethnic background made up of colonists from England and Scotland. Hence the UDA and UVF being for Britain due to their ethnicity being British not Irish. The English government and media were the first to use Catholics v. Protestants.

It just puts a different slant on things rather than simplifying is as a religious conflict, don't you think

[emoji108][emoji106]

[Iggy Pope]

Quick Google brings this up....

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-Protestant-members-of-Sinn-Fein-and-Catholic-members-of-the-Democratic-Unionist-Party

And don't forget that many of the original Fenian Brotherhood were Protestant.

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Also the Presbytarian United Irishmen. The very Roddy McCorley and the Bridge of Toome. The Battle of Antrim. He wasn't alone.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This is genuinely fascinating stuff about the history of protestants in the IRA, it's very enlightening and informative.

that said, on the question of whether there exists sectarianism within hibs' fan base, i think we're getting bogged down in semantics and not looking at the brute, stupid associations that go on in football and society, and looking at what is used to fan flames of hatred. it would be great if all the idiots who shout sectarian abuse from the stands knew the actual history of what they were shouting, but they don't deal in facts, just associations. whether the IRA were s religious organisation or not, they are used as a symbol of religious hatred in scotland - that is, in almost all relevant cases to this discussion, mentioning of/singing about the IRA carries, to say the very least, religious/sectarian baggage.

[superbam]

Me too. Would be an appalling low....never heard anything like that from Hibs fans in decades...

in fact, i doubt it happened at all.

[Squirrel 1875]

Our sectarian mob? Where do you sit at ER? For a minute I thought you were comparing us to Hearts and The Rangers.

Scary approach to a real issue in 2018

We don’t have a sectarian problem. In all the years I’ve followed he club I have never seen or head anything to suggest otherwise.

[Carheenlea]

in fact, i doubt it happened at all.

If it had, surely it would have came to light before tonight. Loathe to accuse any fellow posters of lying so giving them the benefit of the doubt it could only have been a couple of pissed up guys at most making a tit of themselves.

[we are hibs]

https://twitter.com/MarkJeffries94/status/1056521029806444544?s=19

:rolleyes:

[AgentDaleCooper]

We don’t have a sectarian problem. In all the years I’ve followed he club I have never seen or head anything to suggest otherwise.

It depends on how you define problem. I would say out of rangers, celtic, hearts and us, we have the smallest problem, but it's there. Have you never heard rangers be called dirty orange barstewards, for example?

We're not sectatian-a-holic like the ugly sisters, but we dabble from time to time.

[Smartie]

I sometimes have to split my own version of reality from what I hear on here.

Based on my own experiences, Hibs absolutely 100% do not have a problem with sectarianism.

Based on unconfirmed rumour I hear on here, we might.

What seems certain to me though is that the Hearts problem started small and has been allowed to grow. If we get the hint of anything starting (such as the reported songs about Rudi Skacel or Stokesy's da, neither of which I have heard) then it needs to be snuffed out before it can gather any momentum.

[Austinho]

As annoyed as I am about a small group of drunk w**kers singing that rubbish in a pub, it certainly doesn't compare to half a stadium singing fenian blood en masse, booing the Pope, sectarian/racist abuse thrown at the manager for 90 minutes. Hearts really need to work hard as a club to stop it, as it has got well out of hand. They need anti bigotry initiatives and campaigns, we need to self police the occasional idiot in a pub 3 or 4 times a season. That's the difference. I've never personally heard any mention of the IRA etc in years of going to home, away games or European matches, and if I did I'd be highly embarrassed.

[Hibrandenburg]

It’s not at all..that is a crass point to make

if I’ve been clumsy with including the Lee Rigby reference then I’ll take it back - because that is not about politics or religion - simply about hate...not something I hope Hibs are ever associated with

The point I was seeking to make though is that it is a lazy reference to suggest support the IRA or a United Ireland is sectarian..regardless of political Opinion it is not about religion ...

I'd say it's rubbish to even suggest that support of the IRA or a United Ireland isn't sectarian. Sure you'll have a few token protestants amongst the support, but the overwhelming majority will be Roman Catholic. Feel free to show me otherwise.

[bigwheel]

I'd say it's rubbish to even suggest that support of the IRA or a United Ireland isn't sectarian. Sure you'll have a few token protestants amongst the support, but the overwhelming majority will be Roman Catholic. Feel free to show me otherwise.

Nah. Read this thread and perhaps add some history books..I’m not going to do that for you ...

[Sir David Gray]

I sincerely hope the stuff about Hibs fans singing the Lee Rigby song is nonsense. That song is an utter disgrace and if I ever hear it being sung, the people singing it will be reported.

It was bad enough hearing about how some people hoped that Stevie Naismith and Rudi Skacel were both going to die in their sleep by a bullet from the IRA.

Leave that ***** to the extremists at Parkhead.

[Chorley Hibee]

I'd say it's rubbish to even suggest that support of the IRA or a United Ireland isn't sectarian. Sure you'll have a few token protestants amongst the support, but the overwhelming majority will be Roman Catholic. Feel free to show me otherwise.

I'm an atheist, and I support a united Ireland, so I certainly don't support it from a sectarian standpoint.

I steadfastly believe in equality and the thought of me becoming consumed with hatred, whilst taking the view that I'm superior to others on the basis of my belief, is one that is abhorrent to me.

[Hibrandenburg]

Nah. Read this thread and perhaps add some history books..I’m not going to do that for you ...

History is a great passion of mine and I'd love to debate it with you over a pint. However we're talking about contemporary politics here and the United Ireland debate has moved on from what it was early last century. The recent troubles kicked off in NI because of sectarian discrimination against the Catholic population there. It polarised both communities. That hasn't changed.

How many Catholics are members of the DUP? I'd wager that less than 10% of Catholics would vote for NI to stay in the U.K. and less than 10% of protestants would wish for a United Ireland. Politics in NI is hugely sectarian.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm an atheist, and I support a united Ireland, so I certainly don't support it from a sectarian standpoint.

I steadfastly believe in equality and the thought of me becoming consumed with hatred, whilst taking the view that I'm superior to others on the basis of my belief, is one that is abhorrent to me.

As am I. However the sectarianism in NI is not governed on beliefs, more what community you're born into.

[BullsCloseHibs]

I think several hundred / even thousand Hearts fans singing being up to their knees in Febian blood regularly outweighs anything that gets sung by our boys. Hibs have always had the Irish link and that won't ever end, we'll always hear the odd tune getting sung. Particularly away games. But Hearts take things to another dimension altogether. I wonder just HOW close Queen Budge and co get to hearing their sectarian singers each week. Or does she wear ear defenders? I'm pretty sure Mercer probably would have tapped his feet to some of the dittys. They are a horrible company. Just vile.

[vahibbie]

It depends on how you define problem. I would say out of rangers, celtic, hearts and us, we have the smallest problem, but it's there. Have you never heard rangers be called dirty orange barstewards, for example?

We're not sectatian-a-holic like the ugly sisters, but we dabble from time to time.

Can one Protestant calling another Protestant a DOB be classed as sectarianism?
Can insulting or name calling against the Orange Order be classed as sectarianism?

I'm not guilty of sectarianism but have no time whatsoever for the Orange Order.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Never heard football songs sung in Parliament or Church or Chapel, so what is the relevance or need to have political or religious songs on a Saturday afternoon at three o'clock?

[superfurryhibby]

Can one Protestant calling another Protestant a DOB be classed as sectarianism?
Can insulting or name calling against the Orange Order be classed as sectarianism?

I'm not guilty of sectarianism but have no time whatsoever for the Orange Order.

Exactly my thoughts. I think it fine to oppose hate organisations.

As a rule I’m more concerned about the casual racism found amongst some of our support. It’s not a Hibs issue though, they are just idiots who also happen to support Hibs.

As for the poster who wants to equate support for a united Ireland with sectarianism.How does your logic apply when the vast majority of people only go to church for weddings, baptisms and funerals?

[Tornadoes70]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'd say it's rubbish to even suggest that support of the IRA or a United Ireland isn't sectarian. Sure you'll have a few token protestants amongst the support, but the overwhelming majority will be Roman Catholic. Feel free to show me otherwise.

In what way is being in support of a united Ireland sectarian …. nobody is suggesting that if Ireland was ever unified that the protestant community would all be repatriated to Britain or that they would be prevented from practicing their religion. The basis for wanting a united Ireland is purely based on the fact that the country was divided in the first place as a result of a policy of moving protestant Scots and English into Ireland and especially the northern part in an attempt to 'un Irish' it. The end result being that there were enough of them in the north by the time the republic was formed for them to be able to pressure the British government into partitioning the 6 northern counties.

Such a policy in modern times is a crime under international law, which is why ironically the UK is against the Israeli policy of allowing settlements in the west bank or the Chinese policy of moving ethnic Chinese into Tibet in order to supplant the indigenous population.

The reason the vast majority of people want a united Ireland is that it should never have been divided in the first place and the fact that it is was the result of nothing short of ethnic cleansing. What the hell is sectarian about that?

[adhibs]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

nonsense. it wasn't overwhelming, and Scotland was already very divisive. if anything, the conservative and unionist party have latched onto bigotry to boost there own pathetic support.

[Tornadoes70]

nonsense. it wasn't overwhelming, and Scotland was already very divisive. if anything, the conservative and unionist party have latched onto bigotry to boost there own pathetic support.

Garbage.

55 - 45 % is overwhelmingly decisive. The snp greens have sought divisiveness and its stoked up bigotry and division. If they'd accepted the overwhelming majority then there wouldn't be this rising of sectarianism. Fact. Ignore it if you want to and I'm certain you will due to being a hard nosed snp greens diviso.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

[Bamba]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

I've read a lot of stupid, nay staggeringly ignorant comments on this board but this is up there with the best of them. Not least 'it divided Scotland in a very divisive manner' - that's as meaningful a statement as 'it was bad in a bad way'.
I cannot believe that you think one group's positive campaign for change (and don't get me wrong, there are the 'blood and soil', Braveheart idiots in the Yes movement) is to blame for this brand-spanking new, never-seen-before division in Scotland's society.
The very suggestion that people who support Scottish independence (your use of the word 'separatist' is just needlessly churlish. Grow up.) have to abandon their cause because people on the extremes of the Unionism don't know how to control themselves is as baffling as it is insulting.

Your solution to bigotry is for a democratic movement to cease. Is that what you're seriously saying? That 2 political parties should abandon one of their core principles to satisfy some knuckle-dragging idiots whose greatest achievement in life was being born Protestant? Is that the kind of democracy you want?

It's odd as well that you claim this was so divisive and yet your mention of the referendum was the very first on the thread. I met a guy in the Faroe Islands (might it have been you, haha!) who kept going on about how the referendum was divisive and then said things like 'I think I was the only unionist on the flight'. He never once shut up about it the whole time. So don't lay this our door and remember the status quo is divisive to many of the 45% of us who voted yes, the insinuation that only one side of this is divisive is just unbelievably stupid.

[chippy]

I've read a lot of stupid, nay staggeringly ignorant comments on this board but this is up there with the best of them. Not least 'it divided Scotland in a very divisive manner' - that's as meaningful a statement as 'it was bad in a bad way'.
I cannot believe that you think one group's positive campaign for change (and don't get me wrong, there are the 'blood and soil', Braveheart idiots in the Yes movement) is to blame for this brand-spanking new, never-seen-before
The very suggestion that people who support Scottish independence (your use of the word 'separatist' is just needlessly churlish. Grow up.) have to abandon their cause because people on the extremes of the Unionism don't know how to control themselves is as baffling as it is insulting.

Your solution to bigotry is for a democratic movement to cease. Is that what you're seriously saying? That 2 political parties should abandon one of their core principles to satisfy some knuckle-dragging idiots whose greatest achievement in life was being born Protestant? Is that the kind of democracy you want?

It's odd as well that you claim this was so divisive and yet your mention of the referendum was the very first on the thread. I met a guy in the Faroe Islands (might it have been you, haha!) who kept going on about how the referendum was divisive and then said things like 'I think I was the only unionist on the flight'. He never once shut up about it the whole time. So don't lay this our door and remember the status quo is divisive to many of the 45% of us who voted yes, the insinuation that only one side of this is divisive is just unbelievably stupid.

A good measured response to a daft post. What seems to be getting missed though on this thread and in the media is the Why of anti Irish/ Catholic feeling among many Scots. I come from a catholic family and had thought this was dying out with past generations. Is it still being nurtured in Protestant communities? Are sinister forces at work in the background winding up vulnerable idiots who don’t really understand what is at stake on these dangerous moments. The treatment of Lenny shines a mirror into modern Scotland. Working class people of all backgrounds need to see the dangers apparent within their actions. Sectarianism is the enemy of our great colllectivist traditions. We mustn’t be duped or we may pay a heavy price. But modern scotland including particularly the left parties snp, green, Labour, Rise need to acknowledge, examine and discuss it. Not to just park it with Legality or Police Scotland. The Tories have and will exploit this though make no mistake to help suppress and divide the left.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Unbelievable Jeff! 😱

[bigwheel]

History is a great passion of mine and I'd love to debate it with you over a pint. However we're talking about contemporary politics here and the United Ireland debate has moved on from what it was early last century. The recent troubles kicked off in NI because of sectarian discrimination against the Catholic population there. It polarised both communities. That hasn't changed.

How many Catholics are members of the DUP? I'd wager that less than 10% of Catholics would vote for NI to stay in the U.K. and less than 10% of protestants would wish for a United Ireland. Politics in NI is hugely sectarian.

No one is saying that politics in NI isn't hugely sectarian..of course it is...but one of your points in another post suggests that people's beliefs are simply based on what community they were born into..you are calling this one wrong..it is giving a disservice to the many who think through these issues and draw they own views and conclusions...the fight for a United Ireland is not one about Catholics and Protestants, it's a much more considered topic than that...with Brexit, for example, looming large in the countries debate..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[telford hibbee]

nonsense. it wasn't overwhelming, and Scotland was already very divisive. if anything, the conservative and unionist party have latched onto bigotry to boost there own pathetic support.
it is called divide and conquer. politicians scream and shout about fixing the problem but they like the fact that people are fighting amongst themselves and are not properly aware of the real issues we all face.

[wpj]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Aye, before the vote it was all peace and love! What a load of pish.

[green day]

Holy ground for all that political pish, please.

Back O/T - Hearts supporters have always seen them as a Protestant club, to a greater or lesser extent, anyone denying that is kidding themselves on.

While Hibs are very clear that we came from Irish Catholic roots and are rightly proud of this, we evolved to draw our support from across all denominations (unlike Celtic).

In my experience, catholics are not represented highly among jambos. There are a few, but not as many as - say - protestant hibs fans?

A guy I was at school with "changed" from Hibs to Hearts because he was not a catholic (!).

I would guess that most jambos identify as "non religious" if asked in a survey - but I would also guess that most of them are non catholic, and when push comes to shove just join in with these wee sing songs as "a bit of fun"

It doesnt make them as bad as Rangers IMO, but it does make them part of the problem and easy for the real radges to associate themselves with.

[JimBHibees]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Assuming you were half cut when posting this never read so much guff in my life.

[Silversand]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:Never read so much pish in all my time on Hibs.net

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[murray26]

I've read a lot of stupid, nay staggeringly ignorant comments on this board but this is up there with the best of them. Not least 'it divided Scotland in a very divisive manner' - that's as meaningful a statement as 'it was bad in a bad way'.
I cannot believe that you think one group's positive campaign for change (and don't get me wrong, there are the 'blood and soil', Braveheart idiots in the Yes movement) is to blame for this brand-spanking new, never-seen-before division in Scotland's society.
The very suggestion that people who support Scottish independence (your use of the word 'separatist' is just needlessly churlish. Grow up.) have to abandon their cause because people on the extremes of the Unionism don't know how to control themselves is as baffling as it is insulting.

Your solution to bigotry is for a democratic movement to cease. Is that what you're seriously saying? That 2 political parties should abandon one of their core principles to satisfy some knuckle-dragging idiots whose greatest achievement in life was being born Protestant? Is that the kind of democracy you want?

It's odd as well that you claim this was so divisive and yet your mention of the referendum was the very first on the thread. I met a guy in the Faroe Islands (might it have been you, haha!) who kept going on about how the referendum was divisive and then said things like 'I think I was the only unionist on the flight'. He never once shut up about it the whole time. So don't lay this our door and remember the status quo is divisive to many of the 45% of us who voted yes, the insinuation that only one side of this is divisive is just unbelievably stupid.


You’ll not get a reply from him far to sensible a post for his small narrow minded brain to deal with.

[Hibs90]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.

Agree with what your saying completely but Wednesday night was an embarrassment for our club. Never heard so many sectarian songs sung by our fans.

Songs about Lee Rigby not playing a drum anymore and songs singing about the IRA. We need to self police this out or it’s going to take over our identity.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never heard any sectarian songs at all.

[BILLYHIBS]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:


:wtf:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Hertz fans are s&um and wannabe sevco fans.

Section N slowly spreading over their tinpot ground.

Horrible club

[BILLYHIBS]

Spoke to a Celtic supporter yesterday he informed me that there was loads of violence before and after Sunday’s powderkeg League Cup Semi Final that went unreported in the press and has been conveniently brushed under the carpet. He runs a Supporters Bus and said his and two other buses were ambushed and pelted with missiles and sectarian abuse by Hearts fans on their way to Murrayfield.

[bigwheel]

Spoke to a Celtic supporter yesterday he informed me that there was loads of violence before and after Sunday’s powderkeg League Cup Semi Final that went unreported in the press and has been conveniently brushed under the carpet. He runs a Supporters Bus and said his and two other buses were ambushed and pelted with missiles and sectarian abuse on their way to Murrayfield.


doesn't surprise me - it had all the ingredients of a powder keg that one...tbh though...likely it would have been the same had we been playing the Rangers at Murrayfield..big games like those, bring lots of "day-tripper" fans..mix that with alcohol, you don't see the best of football fans on a day like that...including Hibs.

[judas]

Have to say that I haven’t heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans at home in over 20 years. But I don’t go to many away games and according to my fellow hibs fans this is where the minority of cavemen reveal themselves.

So, let’s accept that we have a problem also.

Can we now have suggestions on how we root this mob out? Confronting these toss pots face to face is risky. Is there another way?

[bigwheel]

Have to say that I haven’t heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans at home in over 20 years. But I don’t go to many away games and according to my fellow hibs fans this is where the minority of cavemen reveal themselves.

So, let’s accept that we have a problem also.

Can we now have suggestions on how we root this mob out? Confronting these toss pots is risky. Is there another way?


I go to most away games - I've still not heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans - think it is largely not happening. Not saying there aren't some crass songs - there are...Mercer song, Skatcel etc. But have never heard a sectarian or IRA supporting song at a Hibs game since the early 80s..

[The Modfather]

Hertz fans are s&um and wannabe sevco fans.

Section N slowly spreading over their tinpot ground.

Horrible club

Not sure labelling Hearts fans as s&um really helps things, not any different to their wide use of the term vermin. The reality is the majority of Hearts are the same as Hibs fans except for the colour of their scarf.

It’s a very vocal minority at the minute that are bigoted morons IMO, and they act like s&um, but let’s not lose sight of the fact it’s still a minority.

None of the Jambos I know, nor any I’ve ever met have ever bought into any of the sectarian cr@p. They subscribe to hoofball played by hammer throwers though mores the pity.

[judas]

I go to most away games - I've still not heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans - think it is largely not happening. Not saying there aren't some crass songs - there are...Mercer song, Skatcel etc. But have never heard a sectarian or IRA supporting song at a Hibs game since the early 80s..

I have to admit that I was shocked and doubtful about the Lee Rigby song, but I don’t have any good reason to doubt the poster who made the claim.


My own father left the game early as he felt he was sitting among some right morons - though he didn’t say anything about sectarian songs (he is a Protestant like the vast majority of Hibs fans I know)

[judas]

Not sure labelling Hearts fans as s&um really helps things, not any different to their wide use of the term vermin. The reality is the majority of Hearts are the same as Hibs fans except for the colour of their scarf.

It’s a very vocal minority at the minute that are bigoted morons IMO, and they act like s&um, but let’s not lose sight of the fact it’s still a minority.

None of the Jambos I know, nor any I’ve ever met have ever bought into any of the sectarian cr@p. They subscribe to hoofball played by hammer throwers though mores the pity.

I agree with you. Non sectarian Jambos are the silent majority.

[Just Alf]

A couple of years ago Hearts looked like they were making in roads on the sectarian stuff. Then most of them thought that's it, we no longer have an issue it's just a tiny minority and it's crept back in... Hopefully we don't follow suit.... But looking at some of the posts on here, I do wonder.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

I go to most away games - I've still not heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans - think it is largely not happening. Not saying there aren't some crass songs - there are...Mercer song, Skatcel etc. But have never heard a sectarian or IRA supporting song at a Hibs game since the early 80s..

I’ve not been to the Roseburn pre derby in years, but it was fairly common for the Forever and ever song to get sung with the f The Queen line. Semantics aside, the roots of that song were not anti Royalists but more rooted in sectarianism. I’ve also heard songs about Stokes’ Dad being in the IRA.

It’s normal for football tribalism to try and point score about whose minority of unsavoury fans and bigots is bigger. We have as many morons in our support who behave unacceptably and sing unsavoury songs as any other club, but as long as I’ve been going to Hibs games sectarianism is something that isn’t prevalent at all, and very much isolated incidents by handfuls of morons.

[bigwheel]

I’ve not been to the Roseburn pre derby in years, but it was fairly common for the Forever and ever song to get sung with the f The Queen line. Semantics aside, the roots of that song were not anti Royalists but more rooted in sectarianism. I’ve also heard songs about Stokes’ Dad being in the IRA.

It’s normal for football tribalism to try and point score about whose minority of unsavoury fans and bigots is bigger. We have as many morons in our support who behave unacceptably and sing unsavoury songs as any other club, but as long as I’ve been going to Hibs games sectarianism is something that isn’t prevalent at all, and very much isolated incidents by handfuls of morons.


Modfather - think this sums it up....you will occasionally get some "old" songs chanted in the pub before game by a few....but it's not currently an issue at our club. Hope it stays that way.

[BILLYHIBS]

Went up to Dundee for the 3-0 game. I must admit I sat right in the middle of the away support with my two sons and did not notice any sectarian songs I did notice and my sons also shared this view that there seemed to be a higher proportion of radges and drunks that would normally atttend a home fixture at Easter Road. :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

I go to most away games - I've still not heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans - think it is largely not happening. Not saying there aren't some crass songs - there are...Mercer song, Skatcel etc. But have never heard a sectarian or IRA supporting song at a Hibs game since the early 80s..

Depends on your definition of "IRA supporting" I suppose but there have been several chants that I have heard which refer to the IRA which are as equally disgusting. The Stokesy's dad song did the rounds last season and this season I've heard the same song sung about Horgan's dad, presumably for no other reason than he's Irish. There were also songs before the game on Wednesday about Stevie Naismith and Rudi Skacel being shot in their sleep by the IRA.

Occasionally we hear the Forever and Ever song at away games as well which makes reference to "orange ********".

I want to make it very clear that these people are very much a tiny minority within the Hibs support at the moment and I normally hear these songs before the game by a handful of idiots but we must not be too relaxed about it and be very vigilant in trying to stamp out and examples that we do see.

[Smartie]

Funnily enough I'm going to slightly come to lgnsh70's defence here.

I don't believe for a minute that any of this is down to the SNP or their divisiveness.

I do, however, believe that what we are seeing is a symptom of the simmering political climate we have in this country (and the wider world) right now. There is a lot of identity-based politics on the go at the moment, and there is a lot of nationalism of different types. When British, Scottish and Irish nationalism clash, the results sometimes aren't pretty.

It's not a coincidence that this is happening after a few years of us being whipped up by politicians of various different variety.

Where I differ from lgnsh70's opinion is in that I think it is caused much more by the Donald Trumps and the Nigel Farages of this world. They're preying on the sense of entitlement felt by so many young, white people and their poisonous use of language is convincing people who are not victims that people are taking something away from them. They look for "others", foreigners or people of different faith who are a threat.

It's no coincidence that it seems to affect our "establishment clubs" more than any other, Rangers and Hearts. It is a shame that instead of rising above it, some of our number appear to be hell bent on being dragged down into it.

It was interesting to hear Neil Lennon express thoughts on entitlement. He is, in my opinion, absolutely correct.

Most of us have engaged with political process with some good debate over the past few years without taking anything too far, so this isn't an attack on one side or the other. It is an attack on the worrying fringe elements who are being polarised but are growing in number, and I think that is what is being seen here.

I've never in my life considered Hibs or Hearts to have a sectarian element to them, but I might have to change that.

[Ringothedog]

A couple of years ago Hearts looked like they were making in roads on the sectarian stuff. Then most of them thought that's it, we no longer have an issue it's just a tiny minority and it's crept back in... Hopefully we don't follow suit.... But looking at some of the posts on here, I do wonder.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
The difference is that there are not 15000 of us belting out the tunes at our stadium. Hibernian have a tiny minority who sing unacceptable songs, the vast majority of the songs are not sectarian by nature but due to the times we live in somebody somewhere is offended by something said or done by someone.

[Scotty Leither]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Are you for real? By your twisted rationale, the Green party should then change its name to "the hybrid party somewhere between yellow and blue on the visible spectrum" ?

I know you'd like the SNP and wider Indy movements to just pack up and go away, and that's your right to hold that view, but don't conflate the "separatists' aims" to be in any way connected with the events of Wednesday night.

[BILLYHIBS]

Funnily enough I'm going to slightly come to lgnsh70's defence here.

I don't believe for a minute that any of this is down to the SNP or their divisiveness.

I do, however, believe that what we are seeing is a symptom of the simmering political climate we have in this country (and the wider world) right now. There is a lot of identity-based politics on the go at the moment, and there is a lot of nationalism of different types. When British, Scottish and Irish nationalism clash, the results sometimes aren't pretty.

It's not a coincidence that this is happening after a few years of us being whipped up by politicians of various different variety.

Where I differ from lgnsh70's opinion is in that I think it is caused much more by the Donald Trumps and the Nigel Farages of this world. They're preying on the sense of entitlement felt by so many young, white people and their poisonous use of language is convincing people who are not victims that people are taking something away from them. They look for "others", foreigners or people of different faith who are a threat.

It's no coincidence that it seems to affect our "establishment clubs" more than any other, Rangers and Hearts. It is a shame that instead of rising above it, some of our number appear to be hell bent on being dragged down into it.

It was interesting to hear Neil Lennon express thoughts on entitlement. He is, in my opinion, absolutely correct.

Most of us have engaged with political process with some good debate over the past few years without taking anything too far, so this isn't an attack on one side or the other. It is an attack on the worrying fringe elements who are being polarised but are growing in number, and I think that is what is being seen here.

I've never in my life considered Hibs or Hearts to have a sectarian element to them, but I might have to change that.
Sorry mate I have been on this planet for 61years I am an Irish Catholic and I have suffered sectarian abuse throughout that time in Scotland long before the SNP or the Greens had a member in Parliament. As I said WTF!

[Smartie]

Sorry mate I have been on this planet for 61years I am an Irish Catholic and I have suffered sectarian abuse throughout that time in Scotland long before the SNP or the Greens had a member in Parliament. As I said WTF!

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened for years - it clearly has, and I'm not going to excuse that either.

But Wednesday was clearly an escalation of something. The tension HAS been rising in recent years and there must be a reason.

There is no doubt that they are getting worse, and I was trying to make a point as to why I think that is.

I'm not pretending that everything was sweetness and light at any point - just that we have seen an escalation.

[SolentHibee]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Probably the most moronic thing I’ve ever read on here.

[One Day]

Sorry mate I have been on this planet for 61years I am an Irish Catholic and I have suffered sectarian abuse throughout that time in Scotland long before the SNP or the Greens had a member in Parliament. As I said WTF!

I agree with that. I'm same age and remember getting abuse walking home from school, Pape and Fenian being the main words of choice

[bigwheel]

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened for years - it clearly has, and I'm not going to excuse that either.

But Wednesday was clearly an escalation of something. The tension HAS been rising in recent years and there must be a reason.

There is no doubt that they are getting worse, and I was trying to make a point as to why I think that is.

I'm not pretending that everything was sweetness and light at any point - just that we have seen an escalation.


This feels more like a holy ground topic now doesn't it....

I think the root cause is more in what BillyHibs responded....there has been for centuries an undercurrent of anti-catholic views in parts of Scottish society. It's still there to some degree. I pulled up some St Johnstone fans after a recent Tynie semi final for shouting "fenian *******s" at some Hibs fans. I do think systemically it has reduced in recent decades, but it is still there is some parts of our society. I don't see independence being the reason, although I have seen some use the political environment around to try to incite divineness in social and educate debates around religion.

I think its a symptom of the populist extremism of today - Hearts neds are trying to create an identify for themselves, and rather than having any smart thinking - they have gone for the full Billy Boys/Tommy Robinson..

[CraigHibee]

I know a lot of decent hearts fans that despise the sectarian element, absolutely no excuse for it other than you are an inbred neanderthal that needs dragged into the 21st century

[Hiber-nation]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

Probably the stupidest post I have ever read on this form and that's saying something.

[Eyrie]

Probably the most moronic thing I’ve ever read on here.

I've seen equally stupid posts from both sides of that argument, which is why I gave up on the Holy Ground years ago.

[kaimendhibs]

Why would I come on here and lie about hearing it. I heard it and so did others on this forum. It definitely was sung around the Murrayfield hotel area and hopefully it’s never sung again.



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFair enough. I said I haven't heard it and I wasn't in the Murrayfield Hotel area.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[southsider]

I know a lot of decent hearts fans that despise the sectarian element, absolutely no excuse for it other than you are an inbred neanderthal that needs dragged into the 21st century
The pics in the paper with Lenny on the ground you can clearly see 2 large Union flags being waved in the background. WTF is that all about ?

[One Day Soon]

Are you for real? By your twisted rationale, the Green party should then change its name to "the hybrid party somewhere between yellow and blue on the visible spectrum" ?

I know you'd like the SNP and wider Indy movements to just pack up and go away, and that's your right to hold that view, but don't conflate the "separatists' aims" to be in any way connected with the events of Wednesday night.


I think there is a relationship here, but not the one he's stated.

We live in an age where identity politics is to the fore in a way that it hasn't been for the best part of 90 years in Western democracies. In that context pre-existing racism, sectarianism and other bigotry finds acceptability and normalisation much more readily than at other times. There is no doubt that a lot of these 'isms' are on the rise and that people who would previously have been regarded as dangerous fringe agitators have gotten closer to mainstream acceptability.

Interestingly I note that Neil commented on a sense of entitlement among many of those who perpetrate sectarian abuse. No-one that I can see has yet talked about the relationship between the term entitlement and the phrase Natural Order but it seems to me that careless use of that phrase leaves it easily open to misinterpretation by those of a sectarian nature who choose to do so for their own weird purpose.

I was brought up as a Catholic in Edinburgh and as a kid in the '70s in particular - and to a degree in the '80s - I experienced routine sectarianism. It has been around since long before either the SNP or the Greens even existed or were to the fore. Are there racists and bigots in the Greens and the SNP? Absolutely yes. But they're in Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems too. I don't think any one party can be badged with responsibility for this stuff - it goes way beyond political parties. Do we really think for instance that there are only bigots among supporters of the two main Glasgow clubs and Hearts? Do we imagine there are no people like that in the support of St Mirren or East Fife or Alloa?

I do think that in the context of identity based choices such as our two recent referendums space opens up for extreme nutters to inhabit with more freedom to do so unchallenged. Just look at some of the wilder protagonists on both fringes of both of these fault lines. If Scotland and Scottish institutions had been serious about confronting sectarianism long before now (and I don't believe that it or they are doing so even now) we would not see it beginning to emerge again as it always does, like a cancer seeking the weakest point to exploit.

Islamophobia, anti-semitism, Catholic/Protestant sectarianism and outright racism all on the rise. All across the West. First you have economic weakness and disadvantage, then you have disenchantment with the status quo and political class and culture, then you have the internal societal division and the othering of minorities with the various 'isms'.

But if this crap can manifest itself routinely with mass chanting and singing on national television and go unremarked and unchallenged by commentators and the key football and football-related institutions alike then why wouldn't it end up with 'Hang Neil Lennon' graffiti and coins being thrown in his face?

[BILLYHIBS]

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened for years - it clearly has, and I'm not going to excuse that either.

But Wednesday was clearly an escalation of something. The tension HAS been rising in recent years and there must be a reason.

There is no doubt that they are getting worse, and I was trying to make a point as to why I think that is.

I'm not pretending that everything was sweetness and light at any point - just that we have seen an escalation.
I know what you were trying to say Smartie my son I am not having a pop at you if anyone it should be at the OP but I feel he has had enough negative feedback for one day.
You are correct for some reason it appears to have escalated this season but even more worrying is the upsurge in the incidences of violence at our games
Neil Lennon is also correct sectarianism in Scotland is racism and needs to be stamped out now.
It would not be tolerated in any other civilised country or society throughout the world even the English shake their heads in disbelief and struggle to understand our attitude towards what we call sectarianism and in particular it’s link to our national sport culture working environment education and politics
Stamp Sectarianism Out Now!
GGTTH
Edit: I went to a RC school married a Protestant at a time when mixed marriages were frowned upon my old man wanted me to grow up hard as **** so he called me Billy I supported Hearts up until age 10 and I remember singing the Sash in the Gorgie Jungle back in 64 because I did not know any better. I have my Dad to thank for saying to me the futures bright the futures green and white. Unfortunately he did not live to see the Holy Grail.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why do Hearts fans hate Lennon so much?

I don’t remember him doing or saying anything so bad about them since he came Hibs manager?

Going back further to when the fan attacked him at Tynie, what had he done then, if anything?

I get that he’s dislikeable to many but he doesn’t get that kind of abuse at Motherwell, St Johnstone or Aberdeen etc.

So if it’s not for sectarian reasons, what is it that makes them despise him so much?

I don’t ever remember us giving Jim Jeffries, Paula Sergio, Billy Brown or whoever such abuse. Cathro was a figure of fun but that was to everyone, not just us.

Even the Levein stuff is tame in comparison and when you see the goodwill between our two managers after his recent health scare you’d have thought the fans would calm it a bit.

[bigwheel]

Why do Hearts fans hate Lennon so much?

I don’t remember him doing or saying anything so bad about them since he came Hibs manager?

Going back further to when the fan attacked him at Tynie, what had he done then, if anything?

I get that he’s dislikeable to many but he doesn’t get that kind of abuse at Motherwell, St Johnstone or Aberdeen etc.

So if it’s not for sectarian reasons, what is it that makes them despise him so much?

I don’t ever remember us giving Jim Jeffries, Paula Sergio, Billy Brown or whoever such abuse. Cathro was a figure of fun but that was to everyone, not just us.

Even the Levein stuff is tame in comparison and when you see the goodwill between our two managers after his recent health scare you’d have thought the fans would calm it a bit.

You know the answer to this - it’s in your post..Lennon answered it yesterday..it is sectarian and as Lennon summarised - racist

[WhileTheChief..]

^^^Sounds like something Johnny Cash would sing about!

[cabbageandribs1875]

Never read so much pish in all my time on Hibs.net

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk




:agree: without a doubt THEE biggest slaver/fantasist i've ever came across on this site

[Scotty Leither]

The present government in Holyrood tried to combat this crap with the OBFA...looking at it from a football fan's perspective (and despite me being an SNP supporter), I didn't think it was particularly well crafted, but with a bit of tweaking it might have been fit for purpose, and had it went into statute it may have effectively fired a warning shot across the bows of the two clubs in Scotland that trade on this archaic nonsense for their own, mainly financial reasons.

The fact it was repealed, driven by in the main James Kelly MSP (an old-school Glasgow Labour wallah made flesh), a number of vocal Celtic fans, and an opportunistic Conservative party {most of whom's knowledge of football could be written on the back of a stamp with a marker pen), tells you all you need to know about the vested interest that lies in this matter from both a political and commercial standpoint.

The fact that the unholy trinity i've listed above found common cause means there will never ever be a meaningful debate on this, and the amount of hand-wringing that our media have indulged in this last 3 days has been truly boak-inducing and will no doubt continue on Sportsound this afternoon among the intellectual giants that inhabit their panel of "experts" too.

Strict liability is the only way forward on this, but that wouldn't get past first base either for the reasons outlined above.

[WhileTheChief..]

Strict liability could have resulted in a points deduction or any other sanction against us cause a fan took a swing at their goalie.

It’s the last thing we want and quite rightly will never be introduced.

[CropleyWasGod]

The present government in Holyrood tried to combat this crap with the OBFA...looking at it from a football fan's perspective (and despite me being an SNP supporter), I didn't think it was particularly well crafted, but with a bit of tweaking it might have been fit for purpose, and had it went into statute it may have effectively fired a warning shot across the bows of the two clubs in Scotland that trade on this archaic nonsense for their own, mainly financial reasons.

The fact it was repealed, driven by in the main James Kelly MSP (an old-school Glasgow Labour wallah made flesh), a number of vocal Celtic fans, and an opportunistic Conservative party {most of whom's knowledge of football could be written on the back of a stamp with a marker pen), tells you all you need to know about the vested interest that lies in this matter from both a political and commercial standpoint.

The fact that the unholy trinity i've listed above found common cause means there will never ever be a meaningful debate on this, and the amount of hand-wringing that our media have indulged in this last 3 days has been truly boak-inducing and will no doubt continue on Sportsound this afternoon among the intellectual giants that inhabit their panel of "experts" too.

Strict liability is the only way forward on this, but that wouldn't get past first base either for the reasons outlined above.James Dornan MSP is driving a strict liability law through Parliament, which would force it on clubs.

If it becomes law, I would prefer it to be overseen by an independent body. Otherwise there is a danger that events like the other night will be seen as easy targets for the football authorities, and others ignored.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Scotty Leither]

Strict liability could have resulted in a points deduction or any other sanction against us cause a fan took a swing at their goalie.

It’s the last thing we want and quite rightly will never be introduced.

If that's what it takes then so be it...I slightly share your discomfort because if it was ever introduced then i've a fair idea of what clubs would be the first to be sanctioned for anything deemed unacceptable over fan behaviour, and I think we would be pretty near the top of the list.

I just despair of our football authorities ever taking a lead on this, and it depresses me that not one club chairman/woman/CEO has ever stuck their head above the parapet for fear of offending anyone.

Mind you, our manager does on occasion and his words are twisted beyond recognition...what a narrow, insular little place Scotland is sometimes, truly depressing.

[One Day Soon]

The present government in Holyrood tried to combat this crap with the OBFA...looking at it from a football fan's perspective (and despite me being an SNP supporter), I didn't think it was particularly well crafted, but with a bit of tweaking it might have been fit for purpose, and had it went into statute it may have effectively fired a warning shot across the bows of the two clubs in Scotland that trade on this archaic nonsense for their own, mainly financial reasons.

The fact it was repealed, driven by in the main James Kelly MSP (an old-school Glasgow Labour wallah made flesh), a number of vocal Celtic fans, and an opportunistic Conservative party {most of whom's knowledge of football could be written on the back of a stamp with a marker pen), tells you all you need to know about the vested interest that lies in this matter from both a political and commercial standpoint.

The fact that the unholy trinity i've listed above found common cause means there will never ever be a meaningful debate on this, and the amount of hand-wringing that our media have indulged in this last 3 days has been truly boak-inducing and will no doubt continue on Sportsound this afternoon among the intellectual giants that inhabit their panel of "experts" too.

Strict liability is the only way forward on this, but that wouldn't get past first base either for the reasons outlined above.


There is plenty of existing public order legislation allowing this garbage to be targeted if Scotland is truly serious about it. Unfortunately we're not.

Where are Sturgeon, Davidson, Leonard and Rennie's statements on sectarianism following this week's events? This is an issue that goes well beyond James Kelly, Celtic fans and the Conservative Party. There's no political party and barely an institution in Scotland that isn't complicit.

[Scotty Leither]

James Dornan MSP is driving a strict liability law through Parliament, which would force it on clubs.

If it becomes law, I would prefer it to be overseen by an independent body. Otherwise there is a danger that events like the other night will be seen as easy targets for the football authorities, and others ignored.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Yup, it's the only way it would work CWG, if regulation of it was taken out of the hands of our own governing body as nobody would trust them to implement it fairly. What a sad indictment eh?

[One Day Soon]

James Dornan MSP is driving a strict liability law through Parliament, which would force it on clubs.

If it becomes law, I would prefer it to be overseen by an independent body. Otherwise there is a danger that events like the other night will be seen as easy targets for the football authorities, and others ignored.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Not a man I have much time for but good for him on this and on the mental health stuff too. An independent body is essential - considering having a UEFA or FIFA representative on it would give it teeth.

[Scotty Leither]

There is plenty of existing public order legislation allowing this garbage to be targeted if Scotland is truly serious about it. Unfortunately we're not.

Where are Sturgeon, Davidson, Leonard and Rennie's statements on sectarianism following this week's events? This is an issue that goes well beyond James Kelly, Celtic fans and the Conservative Party. There's no political party and barely an institution in Scotland that isn't complicit.

Good point...taking them in turn, and trying to leave my own political allegiances out of it, Sturgeon would be pilloried by the media and the The Ranjurs fans whatever she said, Davidson wouldn't say a great deal for fear of harming the billy-boy demograph that her party are shamelessly harvesting, as it relates to Scotland, Leonard wouldn't have the first clue what anyone was talking about, and Rennie would just go with whatever anybody else was saying whilst jumping about on a bouncy castle during one of his "hilarious" photo ops.

Political pygmies et al.

[Eyrie]

Strict liability could have resulted in a points deduction or any other sanction against us cause a fan took a swing at their goalie.

It’s the last thing we want and quite rightly will never be introduced.

There wouldn't be a points deduction for a first offence, unless it was particularly serious.

So I'd have no problem with Hibs having points deducted because idiots in our support continue to be selfish idiots after being warned. Instead I'd have a problem with their decision to continue being idiots when it is harming our club.

[Bishop Hibee]

I think there is a relationship here, but not the one he's stated.

We live in an age where identity politics is to the fore in a way that it hasn't been for the best part of 90 years in Western democracies. In that context pre-existing racism, sectarianism and other bigotry finds acceptability and normalisation much more readily than at other times. There is no doubt that a lot of these 'isms' are on the rise and that people who would previously have been regarded as dangerous fringe agitators have gotten closer to mainstream acceptability.

Interestingly I note that Neil commented on a sense of entitlement among many of those who perpetrate sectarian abuse. No-one that I can see has yet talked about the relationship between the term entitlement and the phrase Natural Order but it seems to me that careless use of that phrase leaves it easily open to misinterpretation by those of a sectarian nature who choose to do so for their own weird purpose.

I was brought up as a Catholic in Edinburgh and as a kid in the '70s in particular - and to a degree in the '80s - I experienced routine sectarianism. It has been around since long before either the SNP or the Greens even existed or were to the fore. Are there racists and bigots in the Greens and the SNP? Absolutely yes. But they're in Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems too. I don't think any one party can be badged with responsibility for this stuff - it goes way beyond political parties. Do we really think for instance that there are only bigots among supporters of the two main Glasgow clubs and Hearts? Do we imagine there are no people like that in the support of St Mirren or East Fife or Alloa?

I do think that in the context of identity based choices such as our two recent referendums space opens up for extreme nutters to inhabit with more freedom to do so unchallenged. Just look at some of the wilder protagonists on both fringes of both of these fault lines. If Scotland and Scottish institutions had been serious about confronting sectarianism long before now (and I don't believe that it or they are doing so even now) we would not see it beginning to emerge again as it always does, like a cancer seeking the weakest point to exploit.

Islamophobia, anti-semitism, Catholic/Protestant sectarianism and outright racism all on the rise. All across the West. First you have economic weakness and disadvantage, then you have disenchantment with the status quo and political class and culture, then you have the internal societal division and the othering of minorities with the various 'isms'.

But if this crap can manifest itself routinely with mass chanting and singing on national television and go unremarked and unchallenged by commentators and the key football and football-related institutions alike then why wouldn't it end up with 'Hang Neil Lennon' graffiti and coins being thrown in his face?

Spot on.

[Sir David Gray]

There wouldn't be a points deduction for a first offence, unless it was particularly serious.

So I'd have no problem with Hibs having points deducted because idiots in our support continue to be selfish idiots after being warned. Instead I'd have a problem with their decision to continue being idiots when it is harming our club.

What's to stop idiots who aren't Hibs fans infiltrating the support and causing bother knowing that the club will be fined or face other sanctions as a result?

Not just Hibs either, any club could be affected by that.

[wookie70]

The pics in the paper with Lenny on the ground you can clearly see 2 large Union flags being waved in the background. WTF is that all about ?

Probably the same as the umpteen tricolours in our end. Which would have been in any wide angle shot of when their goalie was assaulted

[The Modfather]

What's to stop idiots who aren't Hibs fans infiltrating the support and causing bother knowing that the club will be fined or face other sanctions as a result?

Not just Hibs either, any club could be affected by that.

Are folk really likely to do something and risk probable arrest just to cost an opposition team a few points? I get what you’re saying but think it’s very unlikely.

[CropleyWasGod]

What's to stop idiots who aren't Hibs fans infiltrating the support and causing bother knowing that the club will be fined or face other sanctions as a result?

Not just Hibs either, any club could be affected by that.The club would have to show that they took all reasonable steps to ensure that such things couldn't happen. If they can't, then it's on them.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

What's to stop idiots who aren't Hibs fans infiltrating the support and causing bother knowing that the club will be fined or face other sanctions as a result?

Not just Hibs either, any club could be affected by that.

I'd be surprised if that happened, and if it did then any penalty would be cancelled as soon as the culprit's true allegiance is identified.

We need to stop looking for excuses and start dealing with the problems.

[Paisley Hibby]

It's a major problem for them and they just don't seem to want to address it. The whole situation should utterly embarrass Anne Budge and co. A large group of their fans are an utter disgrace. The sectarian disease is live and well down Gorgie way.
The Hearts fans I know are not in the slightest bit sectarian. In fact they are just as disgusted as we are by the stuff spouted by a small section of their support. Why that small section behaves like that is a good question. It's not a new problem. My Dad, a Hearts Fan, tells me he first encountered it amongst the Hearts away support at Queen of the South back in the 1950s. There was a group of Hearts Fans going round with a banner which said "King Billy" on it. He thought it was a reference to Willie Bauld but was then shocked to hear the anti-Catholic stuff they were signing. Maybe it's to do with Hearts being seen traditionally as the "Establishment" club and that encourages some of them to ape the "Wee arra peepul" rubbish that comes out of Ibrox?

[wookie70]

I'd be surprised if that happened, and if it did then any penalty would be cancelled as soon as the culprit's true allegiance is identified.

We need to stop looking for excuses and start dealing with the problems.

Agree completely. It isn't difficult to track most fans these days through social media etc. I doubt anyone would risk arrest or a banning order to try and get another team a points deduction. If they did it would be rare their allegiances could not be pinpointed and the points deduction or similar transferred to their team.

I am simplifying it but strict liability is not here now because the Ugly sisters know they couldn't stop their fans and the other teams know how the SFA operates to promote and protect their two main interests. I'd love to see it brought in with some form of independent panel(not sure that is possible as even bodies such as The Police couldn't be trusted)

[Sir David Gray]

Are folk really likely to do something and risk probable arrest just to cost an opposition team a few points? I get what you’re saying but think it’s very unlikely.

I wouldn't put it past some people.

[CentreLine]

What's to stop idiots who aren't Hibs fans infiltrating the support and causing bother knowing that the club will be fined or face other sanctions as a result?

Not just Hibs either, any club could be affected by that.

Like it happens with strict liability in European games? Just not happening and is a bit of a lame excuse for not adopting this policy. There is only one reason for our clubs not adopting strict liability and it is because they fear the consequences. And that is the very reason it should happen.

[BSEJVT]

I've not read through all the posts and apologise if repeating any previous ones.

The rise in sectarianism is linked to the separatist snp greens party continuing their separatist aims despite the overwhelming No vote in 2014. It divided Scotland in a very divisive manner and will never settle down again until the separatists give up their futile ways. Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

This must be a wind up?

I am strongly anti independence and have absolutely no regard for the SNP and most of its policies but to relate this to the upsurge in Hearts sectarianism is utterly mental

[edinburghhibee]

Erm, I smell ....

I sit a few rows in front of there. Happy to chat tomorrow? You're making stuff up mate, best stop while you're behind.

Working the day so I’ll no be there but happy for you to see me at the next game mate. I’m no making anything up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[edinburghhibee]

Nobody on this thread (thus far) able to back this up? Whereabouts in the Roseburn was this sung?

Wasn’t sung in the Roseburn it was sung by a group opposite murrayfield hotel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[edinburghhibee]

in fact, i doubt it happened at all.

Aye cos I’d just come on and say it did for the ****s and giggles... it happened


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[edinburghhibee]

I sometimes have to split my own version of reality from what I hear on here.

Based on my own experiences, Hibs absolutely 100% do not have a problem with sectarianism.

Based on unconfirmed rumour I hear on here, we might.

What seems certain to me though is that the Hearts problem started small and has been allowed to grow. If we get the hint of anything starting (such as the reported songs about Rudi Skacel or Stokesy's da, neither of which I have heard) then it needs to be snuffed out before it can gather any momentum.

Agreed mate, the reason I brought it up was to get it nipped before it turns into something.

Also apologies for all the posts quoted at once.


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[Zazu62]

The can’t sing about 1902 and big cups 114 years in a row anymore so they focus more on billy boys fenians etc these days

[Kato]

I think we need to sort our own sectarian mob out first before slagging off other clubs.



How large is the mob?

[Just Alf]

The difference is that there are not 15000 of us belting out the tunes at our stadium. Hibernian have a tiny minority who sing unacceptable songs, the vast majority of the songs are not sectarian by nature but due to the times we live in somebody somewhere is offended by something said or done by someone.I totally agree, what was trying to say is they were complacent and let 'it' back in... We just need to make sure we don't go the same route...

Anyways... Now for. The game!!



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[Tornadoes70]

Funnily enough I'm going to slightly come to lgnsh70's defence here.

I don't believe for a minute that any of this is down to the SNP or their divisiveness.

I do, however, believe that what we are seeing is a symptom of the simmering political climate we have in this country (and the wider world) right now. There is a lot of identity-based politics on the go at the moment, and there is a lot of nationalism of different types. When British, Scottish and Irish nationalism clash, the results sometimes aren't pretty.

It's not a coincidence that this is happening after a few years of us being whipped up by politicians of various different variety.

Where I differ from lgnsh70's opinion is in that I think it is caused much more by the Donald Trumps and the Nigel Farages of this world. They're preying on the sense of entitlement felt by so many young, white people and their poisonous use of language is convincing people who are not victims that people are taking something away from them. They look for "others", foreigners or people of different faith who are a threat.

It's no coincidence that it seems to affect our "establishment clubs" more than any other, Rangers and Hearts. It is a shame that instead of rising above it, some of our number appear to be hell bent on being dragged down into it.

It was interesting to hear Neil Lennon express thoughts on entitlement. He is, in my opinion, absolutely correct.

Most of us have engaged with political process with some good debate over the past few years without taking anything too far, so this isn't an attack on one side or the other. It is an attack on the worrying fringe elements who are being polarised but are growing in number, and I think that is what is being seen here.

I've never in my life considered Hibs or Hearts to have a sectarian element to them, but I might have to change that.

It takes brave men and women to take head on the truth of subject matter. I was in no way blaming one side or the other merely that there is rising tensions because of one side greatly escalating their aims and the other side recognising it and raising their own objections to the opposition. Its not rocket science and those on the snp greens must recognise that their escalating power grabs will obviously ferment rising tensions on the other side of the argument. Its just obvious.


Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

[BILLYHIBS]

:confused:

Still stand by by what I said in that sectarianism has been around for hundreds of years in Scotland and is endemic to our Society

I am sorry but I don’t know WTF it has to do with the SNP or the Greens. I am sure that if you suggested as much to their respective leaders they would be looking for you to be certified and taken away to the nearest loony bin screaming and kicking.

Anyway back to the point. Neil Lennon is correct sectarianism in Scotland borders on racism indeed it is racism and steps must be taken by the powers that be to eradicate it from our society forthwith as it is totally unacceptable in any modern civilised society in 2018

:wtf:

[Baldy Foghorn]

:confused:

Still stand by by what I said in that sectarianism has been around for hundreds of years in Scotland and is endemic to our Society

I am sorry but I don’t know WTF it has to do with the SNP or the Greens. I am sure that if you suggested as much to their respective leaders they would be looking for you to be certified and taken away to the nearest loony bin screaming and kicking.

Anyway back to the point. Neil Lennon is correct sectarianism in Scotland borders on racism indeed it is racism and steps must be taken by the powers that be to eradicate it from our society forthwith as it is totally unacceptable in any modern civilised society in 2018

:wtf:

Correct. Modern society with OO though, doesn't cut it.

I shudder to think what the reaction to NL will be on boxing day.....

[Brizo]

My take on this is that Hertz never self policed the loyalist stuff out of their songbook in the same manner that we self policed the rebs out of ours.

The type of stuff they sang when I started going to derbies in the 70s has been sung in varying degrees since then. It never died out and there was always a minority who kept it up. Its now been taken up by a new generation which has encouraged more of the old school 80s types to come out of the woodwork and between old school / new school bigots you now have a substantial minority into it. Hertz fans themselves admit there are thousands singing the fenian blood version of the Gorgie Boys.

My take on why its so prominent again is that fitba misbehaviour goes in cycles and an element of Hertz young supporters want to play up at games. They don't have an older hooligan element to latch onto but they do have an older bigot element to latch onto so that's the route they've taken to play up at the fitba.

Every club has its bams. Its undeniable that we have a tiny sectarian element and a handful of bams singing IRA type stuff is a handful to many. But ive also heard the odd fenian type shouts from some Hibs fans vs Celtic. In recent decades ive actually heard a lot more racist than sectarian shouts in our stands.

There is no way however that the two clubs sectarian problems are like for like and any Hibbie putting forward that narrative has a very dubious agenda.

[Carheenlea]

For a club who’s sectarian element seems to be on an alarming rise, you’d think they’d be lapping up a trip to Celtic Park to give it big licks, but it appears that there is not the same enthusiasm to do so away from the confines of Tynecastle/Murrayfield/Edinburgh. Especially when they’re top of the league. Pathetic support.

http://i64.tinypic.com/nna2x3.jpg

[BILLYHIBS]

For a club who’s sectarian element seems to be on an alarming rise, you’d think they’d be lapping up a trip to Celtic Park to give it big licks, but it appears that there is not the same enthusiasm to do so away from the confines of Tynecastle/Murrayfield/Edinburgh. Especially when they’re top of the league. Pathetic support.

http://i64.tinypic.com/nna2x3.jpg

Naw that’s the Executive Seats that’s Budgie sitting doon the front! :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

For a club who’s sectarian element seems to be on an alarming rise, you’d think they’d be lapping up a trip to Celtic Park to give it big licks, but it appears that there is not the same enthusiasm to do so away from the confines of Tynecastle/Murrayfield/Edinburgh. Especially when they’re top of the league. Pathetic support.

http://i64.tinypic.com/nna2x3.jpgHello, hello, sometimes we're the billy/gorgie boys.........

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[Jpdhfc]

I’m deluded and stupid then. Will deny rigourously that we have any sectarian problems within our support.

Me too never heard any sectarian singing on Wednesday.

[Kato]

Disgusting that they did not accept the vote in 2014 and I blame them wholly for the increase in ugly bigotry.



. I was in no way blaming one side or the other



Mmm, not quite adding up there.

[Tom Hart RIP]

26-year-old charged with assault on 70 year old woman by throwing bottle at her before Hearts Celtic game last week.

[Tom Hart RIP]

21 year old charged with assaulting Hearts goalkeeper during derby. Enquires continuing re the Lenny assault

[Sir David Gray]

26-year-old charged with assault on 70 year old woman by throwing bottle at her before Hearts Celtic game last week.


21 year old charged with assaulting Hearts goalkeeper during derby. Enquires continuing re the Lenny assault

Both reported on Sky Sports News.

Hope they both get the book thrown at them and never see the inside of a football stadium ever again.

[Weegreenman]

The singing of songs from Rangers/Hearts fans have never bothered me. I can’t say I’ve ever lost sleep over someone singing a song. I’ve been going to the football for over 30 years and I can tell you things were far worse back in the 80’s and 90’s than what they are now. Hearts are a club that are absolutely embroiled in sectarianism as Hibs once were. I remember singing along to IRA chants in the east terrace when I was a kid. I didn’t even know who the IRA were, I just loved being part of the atmosphere. Thankfully all that nonsense seems to have been eradicated at Easter Road now. I’m not quite sure how or why that happened but maybe just maybe we will see the same thing happen over at Tynie in the coming years. I’ve seen threads on kickback saying enough of the “Billy boys” songs. That’s a great sign and it tells there are a lot of good Hearts fans who don’t want anything to do with sectarianism.

[Sir David Gray]

The singing of songs from Rangers/Hearts fans have never bothered me. I can’t say I’ve ever lost sleep over someone singing a song. I’ve been going to the football for over 30 years and I can tell you things were far worse back in the 80’s and 90’s than what they are now. Hearts are a club that are absolutely embroiled in sectarianism as Hibs once were. I remember singing along to IRA chants in the east terrace when I was a kid. I didn’t even know who the IRA were, I just loved being part of the atmosphere. Thankfully all that nonsense seems to have been eradicated at Easter Road now. I’m not quite sure how or why that happened but maybe just maybe we will see the same thing happen over at Tynie in the coming years. I’ve seen threads on kickback saying enough of the “Billy boys” songs. That’s a great sign and it tells there are a lot of good Hearts fans who don’t want anything to do with sectarianism.

Maybe it's time for the decent Hearts fans to take some decent action. Perhaps walking out of the stadium when any of that stuff starts up would be a good start.

I know I would stay away from Hibs games if we started singing IRA songs etc.

[green&left]

Andy Walker or Tommy Robinson?

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/uploads/monthly_2018_11/2BC56261-758F-4608-B1F3-A792AD2E3DF7.thumb.jpeg.1ca71c49bdcb9aea236f7ec615 d7ee76.jpeg

[Weegreenman]

Maybe it's time for the decent Hearts fans to take some decent action. Perhaps walking out of the stadium when any of that stuff starts up would be a good start.

I know I would stay away from Hibs games if we started singing IRA songs etc.


Tgats certainly one option but id be interested to know how we as a set of supporters managed to eradicate sectarianism. I think talking about it on forums such as this helps. Fans letting fellow supporters know that it’s not going to be tolerated any longer. Unfortunately there will always be a minority but I can genuinely say in the last 10-15 years I’ve not heard any sectarianism at Easter Road. Very pwoud.....very pwoud :not worth

[The Harp Awakes]

The Hearts fans I know are not in the slightest bit sectarian. In fact they are just as disgusted as we are by the stuff spouted by a small section of their support. Why that small section behaves like that is a good question. It's not a new problem. My Dad, a Hearts Fan, tells me he first encountered it amongst the Hearts away support at Queen of the South back in the 1950s. There was a group of Hearts Fans going round with a banner which said "King Billy" on it. He thought it was a reference to Willie Bauld but was then shocked to hear the anti-Catholic stuff they were signing. Maybe it's to do with Hearts being seen traditionally as the "Establishment" club and that encourages some of them to ape the "Wee arra peepul" rubbish that comes out of Ibrox?

Although our rivals, I've never had much bother with Hearts fans over the years. Most of the jambos I know are fine.

Have to say though, after a quick look at the Neil Lennon thread on kickback, it's disturbing how almost 100% of them blame Lennon entirely for the coin throwing incident at Tynecastle. They seem to be in denial about the religious bigotry directed at him which was clearly heard on TV. Add in the 3 stands belting out the Gorgie Billy boys and it's clear that HMFC have a growing problem with sectarianism. I'd expect that from the Govan zombies but I thought more of jambos.

Budge really should be sorting this out along with the many decent jambos who want nothing to do with that poisonous stuff. Unfortunately it looks like they're all doing an osterich impression at the moment which is bad news for their Club and Scottish football generally.

[Keith_M]

I was at the game at Celtc Park and there was about a dozen teenagers walked past me before the match sing the Stokesey's Da song. Sadly, they were Hibs Fans, and appeared to be trying to ingratiate themselves with the Celtc support.

I told them to shut it, and had evil stares from everybody else (Celtc Fans) at the Burger Van I was standing next to.

If they want to act like that, they can p1ss off to Celtc Park permanently

[Onion]

Hearts fans have got and will get increasing sectarian as we killed their entire songbook in May 2016. Sectarianism is the only way they know how to grieve and vent their seeth.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Garbage.

55 - 45 % is overwhelmingly decisive. The snp greens have sought divisiveness and its stoked up bigotry and division. If they'd accepted the overwhelming majority then there wouldn't be this rising of sectarianism. Fact. Ignore it if you want to and I'm certain you will due to being a hard nosed snp greens diviso.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:


It takes brave men and women to take head on the truth of subject matter. I was in no way blaming one side or the other merely that there is rising tensions because of one side greatly escalating their aims and the other side recognising it and raising their own objections to the opposition. Its not rocket science and those on the snp greens must recognise that their escalating power grabs will obviously ferment rising tensions on the other side of the argument. Its just obvious.


Mon the Cabbage!!!

:flag:

So basically:

A movement which has been active in one form or another for over a century should give up its fundamental aims because of one vote which didn't go its way. If you can name me one political party or democratic movement which has gone down that route in the last 100 years, and I don't mean changed tactics but given up its aims altogether, I'll vote Tory at the next election and post a picture on here of me doing it. I've been a nationalist ever since I was old enough to form an opinion .. the suggestion that me or anybody else should give up a lifelong fundamental belief because it encourages a load of hard of thinking idiots to act like thugs is laughable.

The only sectarianism I've seen which can be directly connected to the 2014 referendum was on the day after the vote in George square when the Loyalist / Billy boys element of Glasgow descended on the square with their union flags and Rangers scarves to 'celebrate' their victory against the dark forces of Papist anti royalist separatism.

That aside …. any debate which has two sides to it is by its very nature divisive … to suggest that one side should simply give up because of the tiny minority on both sides who use it as an excuse for stupidity, bigotry and violence is ludicrous … should the Labour party pack up and go home because some of its members have been accused of stoking anti Semitism?

As for the SNP / Greens 'power grab' ….. If you mean stopping powers being returned from the EU which should be under the remit of a devolved parliament being retained by the UK government then that's only a power grab in the opinion of folk who want to see Holyrood remain what it is … a glorified town council hampered at every turn by financial and legislative stumbling blocks used to ensure it never quite has the power to actually show Scotland can be effectively governed without any input from Westminster.

Sorry mate, but I couldn't disagree with your point of view more than I do if there was two of me.

[SquashedFrogg]

So basically:

A movement which has been active in one form or another for over a century should give up its fundamental aims because of one vote which didn't go its way. If you can name me one political party or democratic movement which has gone down that route in the last 100 years, and I don't mean changed tactics but given up its aims altogether, I'll vote Tory at the next election and post a picture on here of me doing it. I've been a nationalist ever since I was old enough to form an opinion .. the suggestion that me or anybody else should give up a lifelong fundamental belief because it encourages a load of hard of thinking idiots to act like thugs is laughable.

The only sectarianism I've seen which can be directly connected to the 2014 referendum was on the day after the vote in George square when the Loyalist / Billy boys element of Glasgow descended on the square with their union flags and Rangers scarves to 'celebrate' their victory against the dark forces of Papist anti royalist separatism.

That aside …. any debate which has two sides to it is by its very nature divisive … to suggest that one side should simply give up because of the tiny minority on both sides who use it as an excuse for stupidity, bigotry and violence is ludicrous … should the Labour party pack up and go home because some of its members have been accused of stoking anti Semitism?

As for the SNP / Greens 'power grab' ….. If you mean stopping powers being returned from the EU which should be under the remit of a devolved parliament being retained by the UK government then that's only a power grab in the opinion of folk who want to see Holyrood remain what it is … a glorified town council hampered at every turn by financial and legislative stumbling blocks used to ensure it never quite has the power to actually show Scotland can be effectively governed without any input from Westminster.

Sorry mate, but I couldn't disagree with your point of view more than I do if there was two of me.

I really wish I could find the time to type a response like this.

Brilliant!

[Radium]

Not sure I think they are more sectarian.

The fans default song in the heat of the moment is ‘Hello, Hello, ...’ and has been in recent years




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[where'stheslope]

Although our rivals, I've never had much bother with Hearts fans over the years. Most of the jambos I know are fine.

Have to say though, after a quick look at the Neil Lennon thread on kickback, it's disturbing how almost 100% of them blame Lennon entirely for the coin throwing incident at Tynecastle. They seem to be in denial about the religious bigotry directed at him which was clearly heard on TV. Add in the 3 stands belting out the Gorgie Billy boys and it's clear that HMFC have a growing problem with sectarianism. I'd expect that from the Govan zombies but I thought more of jambos.

Budge really should be sorting this out along with the many decent jambos who want nothing to do with that poisonous stuff. Unfortunately it looks like they're all doing an osterich impression at the moment which is bad news for their Club and Scottish football generally.
I like you read quite a bit of the Lennon thread and I have to say most said they could not condone the coin throwning!
They did however also say that Lennon did himself no favours with the right up you antics celebrating a chalked off goal?
At the game itself, it seemed to be a tinderbox ready to blow even before the kickoff!
Unfortunately, this time it did explode and it was not pretty!
I don't think there is an answer to stopping all this, but sooner or later someone is going to get really hurt!!!!

[The 90+2]

Not sure I think they are more sectarian.

The fans default song in the heat of the moment is ‘Hello, Hello, ...’ and has been in recent years




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah a bit like “we are Hibernian fc..”. They have a ***** songbook so have to copy others. I don’t think they are more sectarian though they are just the usual ****stains.

[Scott Allan Key]

Ihope any Hibs supporter singing the Lee Rigby song gets seven shades smashed out of them. I like to think the Hibs support will self police this nonsense. There are thousands of current an ex military personnel amongst our support

I’m sure you’ll concur that the same goes for you those who sing the Edinburgh song.

[Scott Allan Key]

Andy Walker or Tommy Robinson?

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/uploads/monthly_2018_11/2BC56261-758F-4608-B1F3-A792AD2E3DF7.thumb.jpeg.1ca71c49bdcb9aea236f7ec615 d7ee76.jpeg

Kind of looks like an inbred Hitler without the tache.

[Keith_M]

I’m sure you’ll concur that the same goes for you those who sing the Edinburgh song.


I'm sure most of us would agree.


However, I draw the line at moving my ST to the East Stand just to beat up some idiotic teenagers...

[Keith_M]

Andy Walker or Tommy Robinson?

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2784712.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Tony-Robinson-Blackadder.jpg

Fixed that for you

[CMurdoch]

I was at the game at Celtc Park and there was about a dozen teenagers walked past me before the match sing the Stokesey's Da song. Sadly, they were Hibs Fans, and appeared to be trying to ingratiate themselves with the Celtc support.

I told them to shut it, and had evil stares from everybody else (Celtc Fans) at the Burger Van I was standing next to.

If they want to act like that, they can p1ss off to Celtc Park permanently

Well done.
You have to challenge folk otherwise especially young guys who will become emboldened and think they can do as they want.
Obviously if you weigh it up and think you might get yourself in too deep leave it, however, most of the time they are just stupid kids that need to know that what they are doing is wrong and is unacceptable to fellow Hibees. If you don't challenge bad behaviour you quickly get the situation that Hearts have at the moment where attention seeking young guys has grown into sectarian and right wing stuff. That hasn't happened overnight and has been allow to fester. It will be difficult for them to get the genie back in the bottle now.

[heretoday]

Old school Hearts fans aren't sectarian. Neither are their Hibs equivalents. We just support teams at different ends of the city.

It's the internet that's to blame for all this hatred.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Old school Hearts fans aren't sectarian. Neither are their Hibs equivalents. We just support teams at different ends of the city.

It's the internet that's to blame for all this hatred.

"Old school" Hearts fans used to be far more sectarian than their younger ones are now, when they used to average crowds of about 4,000 (they never like that being mentioned). They also had racists who threw bananas at Mark Walters.

[Hibrandenburg]

"Old school" Hearts fans used to be far more sectarian than their younger ones are now, when they used to average crowds of about 4,000 (they never like that being mentioned). They also had racists who threw bananas at Mark Walters.

That's not "Old school Hearts fans", that's "Middle school Hearts fans".

[Paisley Hibby]

I go to most away games - I've still not heard a sectarian song from Hibs fans - think it is largely not happening. Not saying there aren't some crass songs - there are...Mercer song, Skatcel etc. But have never heard a sectarian or IRA supporting song at a Hibs game since the early 80s..

I'd love that to be true but it isn't. I've certainly heard the one about us being "The Tim Malloy" and being "mastered by no orange *******". But I've also heard Hibs fans coming out with anti-Catholic chat in everyday conversation. So we have some bigoted eejits in our support. But that's all it is, there's something far more sinister going on with a sizeable element of the Hearts support.

[bigwheel]

I'd love that to be true but it isn't. I've certainly heard the one about us being "The Tim Malloy" and being "mastered by no orange *******". But I've also heard Hibs fans coming out with anti-Catholic chat in everyday conversation. So we have some bigoted eejits in our support. But that's all it is, there's something far more sinister going on with a sizeable element of the Hearts support.


yeah fair enough...its rare to hear that song...yet when I do, It feels like people are simply singing it - because those are the words..rather than any sense of an agenda..

your second point is a reflection of scottish society - Catholics are still seen as "fair game" to be disparaged on occasions..weird it is like that - but still happens imo...

Overall I agree - it's not a big thing with us if it happens at all..certainly not as systemic as it appears at Rangers and Hearts..