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hibbyfraelibby
02-11-2018, 01:38 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396

Sylar
02-11-2018, 01:43 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

bingo70
02-11-2018, 01:47 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

1van Sprou7e
02-11-2018, 01:49 PM
Effigy? I saw the graffiti but not sure there was an effigy

matty_f
02-11-2018, 01:49 PM
Effigy? I saw the graffiti but not sure there was an effigy

He's had an effigy of him burned before.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 01:50 PM
People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

I don't think he's far off the mark, it's anti-Irish and anti-Catholic abuse that he gets.

More power to him for calling it out in as blunt terms as possible. We should all be doing that, rather than shying away from it.

Blaster
02-11-2018, 01:51 PM
Interview coming up on SSN

nickwhibs
02-11-2018, 01:52 PM
People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

Absolutely. And as he says in the article, racism is not about the colour of someone's skin, it is about the person's culture, heritage and background, so I can absolutely see where he is coming from. The only way to deal with things like this is to stand up to them and raise awareness; not to brush it off to allow people to sweep it under the carpet.

Sylar
02-11-2018, 01:56 PM
People dismiss sectarianism as just one of those things and no big deal really, if it takes calling it something different to get people to sit up and take notice then so be it.

If it's not the correct meaning of the word then i don't care, that's not really the issue here.

You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

Dancehibs
02-11-2018, 01:57 PM
If he had a Muslim faith , you bet the authorities in Scotland wouldn’t be standing for it. It feels abusing Catholics is ok in Scotland.

Hopefully, hibs fans show Lenny tomorrow how much we love him

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 01:57 PM
He's telling it exactly as it is rather than dancing round the issues like too many politicians and members of the media want to do. They don't call it out because it costs them votes or paper sales or website hits or whatever else. The people he is talking about hate him anyway so him coming out and saying it won't really effect him.

Every Hibs fan should be right behind him because what he has had to endure in nearly 2 decades in Scotland is a ****ing disgrace. The media are uncomfortable because in some instances they have been complicit in whipping up the feeling around him. Rather than getting bogged down in semantics we should be acknowledging the home truths he points out. Several times in the last few days it's been said sectarianism is an elephant in the room and maybe people will now take a bit notice and demand something is done about it.

1van Sprou7e
02-11-2018, 02:03 PM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

How does he belittle racism? Do you think racism is worse than sectarianism?

My_Wife_Camille
02-11-2018, 02:03 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.
Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

davhibby
02-11-2018, 02:04 PM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

The point is though if he had used the term sectarian it would just be ignored and filed under yet another sectarian issue at the football here. It's 2018 yet still nobody seems to care enough to do anything about it. Lennon saying this hopefully highlights it better as it deserves to be

blackpoolhibs
02-11-2018, 02:06 PM
What a great interview Lenny, at last someone standing up and telling it as it is. :top marks

green day
02-11-2018, 02:07 PM
Watched it on SSN just now.

He is clearly very angry - rightly.

I hope this doesnt have the effect of taking his eye off the ball.

wpj
02-11-2018, 02:07 PM
Been reading the i newspaper today, wee article about the sectarian nature of the attack on Lennon and the "fringe" sectarian element in the support. Doesn't gloss over the Hibs fans behaviour either.
Sorry I cant post a link but cant find it online

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 02:09 PM
Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

:top marks

Substitute any of the words NL talks about having been used to describe him for a whole list of words that the swear filter would detect and it would be called for what it is.

Giving it a fancy name doesn't detract from the fact it is motivated by exactly the same feelings that motivate racism even if it doesn't quite meet the dictionary definition. 'It's not racism, it's sectarianism' is from the same school of thought as 'abusing Muslims isn't racist because Islam isn't a race'.

Big_Franck
02-11-2018, 02:09 PM
I'm not religious in the slightest, so I've no real bias when it comes to this issue.

But if Hearts or Sevco fans abused another manager for 90 mins, calling him a Muslim or Jew bast**d can you imagine the reaction? There would quite rightly be uproar. The fact is anti-catholic sectarianism is tolerated in Scotland. It's tolerated by a huge number of fans, it's tolerated by pundits and journalists, by the SFA and SPFL and even by our governments.

Good on Lennon for speaking out and standing up for himself and anyone else that gets this abuse on a weekly basis.

adhibs
02-11-2018, 02:11 PM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.


So you don't think the abuse he received on Wednesday, and pretty much his whole career, is made up of a mix of anti Irish, and anti Catholic insults? Get your head out the sand.

JeMeSouviens
02-11-2018, 02:14 PM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

Indeed, and it's pretty much only the ones of Irish descent who get singled out for the abuse.

Not In The Know
02-11-2018, 02:15 PM
A poster mentioned on another thread that during the BBC Scotland Commentary (from the press box conveniently positioned in the middle front of the new main stand) that you could clearly hear sectarian insults being shouted. And on more than one occasion the commentator had to apologise.

Can we not request these are aired again just to prove what he has to put up with from fans in certain grounds?

Sylar
02-11-2018, 02:17 PM
How does he belittle racism? Do you think racism is worse than sectarianism?

That's an actually an interesting question, and you've given me pause for thought on why I wrote that. No, I don't think any one type of abuse is more "significant" than another, but ask any black, Asian (Far East or Southern), or Middle-Eastern person what it's like to walk down particular areas of a town and be abused on physical appearance alone. Neil is correct, that people don't JUST attack the colour of a person's skin (it's a cultural/heritage discrimination), but it's how they identify their "targets" and it's a danger for them on a daily basis. There's also an element of choice in being Catholic - sure, some people are brought up with it hardened into them via the family/community/church, but at the end of the day, you can always chose to not be Catholic - you can't chose to not be a particular race, and that's where the definitions vary for me.


Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

Look, I've no problem with NL pointing out the severity of the abuse he received on Wednesday night, which everyone knows he's experienced during his entire time not only in Scotland but Northern Ireland too. I cannot even begin to imagine what it's like for him to live the life he does on a day to day basis. He didn't instigate what he got on Wednesday, and he's 100% the victim here, but I don't believe he was the victim of racial abuse.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 02:18 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Keith_M
02-11-2018, 02:21 PM
... 'abusing Muslims isn't racist because Islam isn't a race'.


Ehm, I think you spoilt an otherwise very good argument with that comment, as it's actually not racism, it's religious bigotry (or sectarian, if you lke). I do agree that many Muslims also receive racist abuse because of the colour of their skin.


FWIW, Lennon receives abuse because he is an Irish Catholic, so it's mostly sectarian but could possibly also be called racist (because of the Irish part).


Either way, it's an ugly blight on our society that really should be called out and condemned... especially when one particular club stays persistently silent on the sectarian nature of tens of thousands of their supporters when attending matches... as does the media and football authorities

RoxburghHibs
02-11-2018, 02:24 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

He/We all know that but that's not the point is it? He is making the point that sectarianism is not treated in the same way as racism yet they are the same in all but name.

SirDavidsNapper
02-11-2018, 02:25 PM
There is clearly a problem. Sent bullets by Rangers fans and attacked by Hearts fans. Clear what the issue is. It's Scotland's cancer imo and it's as rife as it's ever been. It's the 21st century for goodness sake.

green day
02-11-2018, 02:27 PM
https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1058361879804862464?s=19

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 02:29 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Nail on the head. I hope you don't mind me sharing it.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Nail on the head. I hope you don't mind me sharing it.

Please do mate! :aok:

wookie70
02-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

He explains that and in my mind is right to do so. Sectarianism is somehow a far lesser crime in Scotland and is brushed under the carpet. His culture is the reason he is being attacked and that equates very much to racism imo. I'm very far away from being a Lennon fan boy but I will stand right beside him on this. I've been very disappointed with some of the whataboutery on this site and the casual acceptance of violence by a decent number of supporters.

As someone who got caught up in the violence on Wednesday I know how good most Hibs fans are. They were really supportive to me and my daughter and the vast majority at the games know where winding the opposition up and giving them it tight stops and when a line would be crossed. That is the tribalism we want not the puss filled hatred that we saw on Wednesday.

I think we have to be brave here. Lets not have a peeing contest to see who has the best behaved fans out of two groups who disgraced themselves. Let's admit we were poor as a support on Wednesday and need to do something about it. Let's stop waving tricolours provocatively and singing refugee, dead Hearts Chairman and other embarrassing ditties. Apart from the hatred they spout they are cringe worthy and juvenile. The songs about the team are far better and surely affect the team more positively. We are not exactly helping Lennon in his goal to stamp out hatred with our hate filled songs that mostly relate to another time.

Our manager was hit by a coin, as many fans were. He never brought that on himself and never deserved it and neither did most of the fans who were struck or the linesmen or the Hearts Keeper. Let's get behind our manager, stop debating the minutia and try and grasp the big problems of hatred, macho-ism, racism, sectarianism, poor policing. unfit stadia etc etc.

Diclonius
02-11-2018, 02:36 PM
Sectarianism is legitimised in this country because it keep the two establishment clubs in the West rich. They don't want rid of it regardless of how much they pretend.

Until someone addresses that the problem will remain.

wookie70
02-11-2018, 02:43 PM
Nail on the head. I hope you don't mind me sharing it.

So much more powerful than reading it. Brave to make a stand but judging by some of the comments from those who abuse him he is going to need huge amounts of support from us with this. He very much deserves it and if Hibs could be a club that starts the journey of driving out sectarianism in Scottish Football that would be every bit as memorable as winning that cup for me.

WhileTheChief..
02-11-2018, 02:50 PM
On Kickback they’re scrambling around talking about effigies at Celtic Park and graffitti about Mercer.

Whataboutery at its finest.

Not one of them even mentions the issue of sectarianism which is what the whole Sky interview was about.

Even if they hate the guy, which they clearly do, you’d have thought they could agree that sectarian abuse is kinda wrong. They forever bang on about Rangers fans doing it.

Anyways, hopefully Lennon keeps banging the drum.

Sylar
02-11-2018, 02:51 PM
:top marks

Substitute any of the words NL talks about having been used to describe him for a whole list of words that the swear filter would detect and it would be called for what it is.

Giving it a fancy name doesn't detract from the fact it is motivated by exactly the same feelings that motivate racism even if it doesn't quite meet the dictionary definition. 'It's not racism, it's sectarianism' is from the same school of thought as 'abusing Muslims isn't racist because Islam isn't a race'.

That's a fair comparison. And I have the same problem with Neil Lennon's comments here as I do with anyone who would use that argument about Islam - it's really complicated. Muslims are abused because of their religion - and of course, some Muslims are also abused because of the colour of their skin, their name, their passport, the way they dress...it's a myriad of factors that see people abused. To try and paint something socially complex as black and white (no pun intended) is folly. It's probably exactly the same thing for Neil Lennon here - it's most likely his religion/culture that saw him targeted on Wednesday night, but what else? We have a definition for religious-centric hate crimes in this country. I agree with the point you and a few other posters are making that we don't deal with sectarianism in Scotland in the same way that we do racial abuse, but they're distinct entities for good reason.


So you don't think the abuse he received on Wednesday, and pretty much his whole career, is made up of a mix of anti Irish, and anti Catholic insults? Get your head out the sand.

Where at any point on this thread, or any other, have I said that? Of course that's part of the reason he was/has been/will continue to be abused. But look at the language he uses in his press conference? It's all around religion - there's no "anti-Irish" stuff in there. He's a fenian, a taig, a tarrier, a beggar...all terminology the Rangers fans use to describe Catholics (and they're not picky about your nationality, as Artur Boruc used to get exactly the same treatment for being a Polish Catholic).


He/We all know that but that's not the point is it? He is making the point that sectarianism is not treated in the same way as racism yet they are the same in all but name.

In that their vile abuse that need stamped out from our society immediately, I agree. They SHOULD be treated the same. Abuse is abuse. But they're distinct in their language for good reasons.


Indeed, and it's pretty much only the ones of Irish descent who get singled out for the abuse.

Is it? Ask Artur Boruc, or Danny McGrain, or Jock Stein, or Tommy Burns, or Aiden McGeady how much abuse they received during their stint at Celtic. Some of them weren't Catholic or Irish (or both), yet they were still subjected to the same vitriol that Lennon receives from the stands when they played. Perhaps not to the extent of violence that Neil has experienced, but I think that's partly tied into my thread from yesterday on the descending behaviour and decency amongst mondern football fans.


He explains that and in my mind is right to do so. Sectarianism is somehow a far lesser crime in Scotland and is brushed under the carpet. His culture is the reason he is being attacked and that equates very much to racism imo. I'm very far away from being a Lennon fan boy but I will stand right beside him on this. I've been very disappointed with some of the whataboutery on this site and the casual acceptance of violence by a decent number of supporters.

As someone who got caught up in the violence on Wednesday I know how good most Hibs fans are. They were really supportive to me and my daughter and the vast majority at the games know where winding the opposition up and giving them it tight stops and when a line would be crossed. That is the tribalism we want not the puss filled hatred that we saw on Wednesday.

I think we have to be brave here. Lets not have a peeing contest to see who has the best behaved fans out of two groups who disgraced themselves. Let's admit we were poor as a support on Wednesday and need to do something about it. Let's stop waving tricolours provocatively and singing refugee, dead Hearts Chairman and other embarrassing ditties. Apart from the hatred they spout they are cringe worthy and juvenile. The songs about the team are far better and surely affect the team more positively. We are not exactly helping Lennon in his goal to stamp out hatred with our hate filled songs that mostly relate to another time.

Our manager was hit by a coin, as many fans were. He never brought that on himself and never deserved it and neither did most of the fans who were struck or the linesmen or the Hearts Keeper. Let's get behind our manager, stop debating the minutia and try and grasp the big problems of hatred, macho-ism, racism, sectarianism, poor policing. unfit stadia etc etc.

I think that's where I disagree with this entire thing, but your entire post is very well articulated and well made. He was a victim, and should be treated as such with the perpetrator dealt with in the harshest of terms. And I do agree that sectarianism is seen as a "lesser" crime here in Scotland, which isn't correct. But trying to change the optics of the crime to somehow be a "racial" issue diminishes the complexity of the issues Neil Lennon faces on a daily basis. And that does matter.

Not In The Know
02-11-2018, 02:59 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

A brilliant and very well written piece.

Well done!

Monts
02-11-2018, 03:01 PM
I posted this on another thread, but I think it's relevant here too.

Lennon gets abuse for being a Northern Irish Catholic that played for Celtic. But that's not the only reason he gets abuse. He is, unfortunately, a very easy target. He's high profile, instantly recognisable, and has a (footballing) personality that really gets under people's skin. He acts like a fan.

Before he joined us, I had a discussion with a Celtic fan who was arguing that the reason people hate Lennon is because of his background. I argued that I didn't like him, and I wasn't even sure what his background was at the time. But he was abrasive (and a bit ugly), and unfortunately (at the time), very good at what he does. To me, he was the Paul Hartley of Celtic.

But I think it's fair to say that the sectarian abuse he receives is real, and when discussed in the media, there is (possibly faux) outrage. But the reporting of the incidents only seem to cement his place as a target for abuse, and very little is actually done to stop it. It just becomes acceptable, and more and more people jump on board.

In short, he is an easy target, with a few different reasons people dislike him. And I'd say while I don't think the majority of people who dislike him are sectarian, the element who are, are the ones who pose the biggest threat to him.



In addition to what I said on the other thread, I think it's worth pointing out that those that dislike him for reasons other than sectarianism really take offence to being told they are sectarian, and it seems to me that it causes people to dislike him even more.

A Hi-Bee
02-11-2018, 03:01 PM
The mere fact that we speak about religion (call it what you want) and football in the same breath just about sums it all up for me. If I was in Neil Lennon’s shoes I would be saying **** them all, I am out of here. Let them to get on with it. A modern civilised society we certainly are not.

wookie70
02-11-2018, 03:06 PM
That's a fair comparison. And I have the same problem with Neil Lennon's comments here as I do with anyone who would use that argument about Islam - it's really complicated. Muslims are abused because of their religion - and of course, some Muslims are also abused because of the colour of their skin, their name, their passport, the way they dress...it's a myriad of factors that see people abused. To try and paint something socially complex as black and white (no pun intended) is folly. It's probably exactly the same thing for Neil Lennon here - it's most likely his religion/culture that saw him targeted on Wednesday night, but what else? We have a definition for religious-centric hate crimes in this country. I agree with the point you and a few other posters are making that we don't deal with sectarianism in Scotland in the same way that we do racial abuse, but they're distinct entities for good reason.



Where at any point on this thread, or any other, have I said that? Of course that's part of the reason he was/has been/will continue to be abused. But look at the language he uses in his press conference? It's all around religion - there's no "anti-Irish" stuff in there. He's a fenian, a taig, a tarrier, a beggar...all terminology the Rangers fans use to describe Catholics (and they're not picky about your nationality, as Artur Boruc used to get exactly the same treatment for being a Polish Catholic).



In that their vile abuse that need stamped out from our society immediately, I agree. They SHOULD be treated the same. Abuse is abuse. But they're distinct in their language for good reasons.



Is it? Ask Artur Boruc, or Danny McGrain, or Jock Stein, or Tommy Burns, or Aiden McGeady how much abuse they received during their stint at Celtic. Some of them weren't Catholic or Irish (or both), yet they were still subjected to the same vitriol that Lennon receives from the stands when they played. Perhaps not to the extent of violence that Neil has experienced, but I think that's partly tied into my thread from yesterday on the descending behaviour and decency amongst mondern football fans.



I think that's where I disagree with this entire thing, but your entire post is very well articulated and well made. He was a victim, and should be treated as such with the perpetrator dealt with in the harshest of terms. And I do agree that sectarianism is seen as a "lesser" crime here in Scotland, which isn't correct. But trying to change the optics of the crime to somehow be a "racial" issue diminishes the complexity of the issues Neil Lennon faces on a daily basis. And that does matter.

I think you are arguing the point very well and are technically correct. I also think that Lennon will feel exactly the same as someone who is abused and with him being high profile and recognisable it will feel exactly the same as a black man who can't hide the colour of this skin.

I think Lennon is trying to get sectarianism recognised equally with racism in Scotland. It might need that blunt instrument approach rather than a scalpel for our country to start dealing with this issue. Yes, it does create an issue but it would be interesting to see what someone(that may of course be your good self) thinks about the definitions and how hatred effects the various groups. Do people facing racial abuse have concerns about Lennon seeing his abuse as racism? I would hope the technicality(not the best choice of word) would be forgotten and they would stand side by side with him to try and eliminate another hatred from society. The more that are eliminated the more hatred become an issue rather than the various types as defined by law.

Stuart93
02-11-2018, 03:06 PM
Lennon could well walk away from us & Scottish football over this. Quite clear the SFA or police Scotland will do anything about the constant sectarian abuse lennon receives. Whatever happens think we need to show neil how much we’re behind him.

Gareth
02-11-2018, 03:08 PM
But trying to change the optics of the crime to somehow be a "racial" issue diminishes the complexity of the issues Neil Lennon faces on a daily basis. And that does matter.

But to make this argument Sylar you necessarily have to imply that race is a real category and that therefore discrimination not based on this real category cannot be racism. Racism is very real but race is manufactured as a way of differentiating populations to justify the domination of some over others. So race is not real in a biological sense, its only real in a social or material sense. therefore racism is about trying to maintain or assert the superiority of one group of the population over another based on these relations. This is the same as religious hatred. So what do you think are the reasons and benefits in keeping the terms separated? Some argue that we should use the term racialised for anti-Irish racism, where would you stand on that?

superbam
02-11-2018, 03:10 PM
hes right to call it for what it is, anti-irish racism. It has **** all to do with theology, catholics from other countries do not attract the same ire.

A Hi-Bee
02-11-2018, 03:11 PM
I think you are arguing the point very well and are technically correct. I also think that Lennon will feel exactly the same as someone who is abused and with him being high profile and recognisable it will feel exactly the same as a black man who can't hide the colour of this skin.

I think Lennon is trying to get sectarianism recognised equally with racism in Scotland. It might need that blunt instrument approach rather than a scalpel for our country to start dealing with this issue. Yes, it does create an issue but it would be interesting to see what someone(that may of course be your good self) thinks about the definitions and how hatred effects the various groups. Do people facing racial abuse have concerns about Lennon seeing his abuse as racism? I would hope the technicality(not the best choice of word) would be forgotten and they would stand side by side with him to try and eliminate another hatred from society. The more that are eliminated the more hatred become an issue rather than the various types as defined by law.

Semantics and what words are used are just another way of deflecting what the general statement is all about. Same thing they do in Politics or any other type of authority the gist of the statement is clear as day no matter what ****ing words are used.

Kato
02-11-2018, 03:12 PM
A poster mentioned on another thread that during the BBC Scotland Commentary (from the press box conveniently positioned in the middle front of the new main stand) that you could clearly hear sectarian insults being shouted. And on more than one occasion the commentator had to apologise.

Can we not request these are aired again just to prove what he has to put up with from fans in certain grounds?

I heard it on the radio. This is coming from a random part of the new stand which just happened to be near microphones. The word "fenian" clearly audible, repeated over and over. Its just a minority though.

G B Young
02-11-2018, 03:14 PM
The club that now calls itself Rangers had the opportunity to make a serious effort at addressing this issue post-liquidation. Instead they simply allowed a carbon copy of their previous incarnation to emerge.

wookie70
02-11-2018, 03:16 PM
Semantics and what words are used are just another way of deflecting what the general statement is all about. Same thing they do in Politics or any other type of authority the gist of the statement is clear as day no matter what ****ing words are used.

I agree 100%, in my original post I said we should stop dealing with the minutia and deal with the big issues. That issue is hatred.

G B Young
02-11-2018, 03:18 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Agree with every word of that.

GreenNWhiteArmy
02-11-2018, 03:21 PM
Lennon could well walk away from us & Scottish football over this. Quite clear the SFA or police Scotland will do anything about the constant sectarian abuse lennon receives. Whatever happens think we need to show neil how much we’re behind him.

Been on my mind since the incident.

His boss has backed him, lets us all show our support for our fantastic manager tomorrow

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 03:22 PM
I posted this on another thread, but I think it's relevant here too.

Lennon gets abuse for being a Northern Irish Catholic that played for Celtic. But that's not the only reason he gets abuse. He is, unfortunately, a very easy target. He's high profile, instantly recognisable, and has a (footballing) personality that really gets under people's skin. He acts like a fan.

Before he joined us, I had a discussion with a Celtic fan who was arguing that the reason people hate Lennon is because of his background. I argued that I didn't like him, and I wasn't even sure what his background was at the time. But he was abrasive (and a bit ugly), and unfortunately (at the time), very good at what he does. To me, he was the Paul Hartley of Celtic.

But I think it's fair to say that the sectarian abuse he receives is real, and when discussed in the media, there is (possibly faux) outrage. But the reporting of the incidents only seem to cement his place as a target for abuse, and very little is actually done to stop it. It just becomes acceptable, and more and more people jump on board.

In short, he is an easy target, with a few different reasons people dislike him. And I'd say while I don't think the majority of people who dislike him are sectarian, the element who are, are the ones who pose the biggest threat to him.



In addition to what I said on the other thread, I think it's worth pointing out that those that dislike him for reasons other than sectarianism really take offence to being told they are sectarian, and it seems to me that it causes people to dislike him even more.

I don't think everyone who dislikes Neil Lennon is sectarian. I would argue though that the extreme abuse Lennon does receive, the implication from some that he is 'fair game' and the excuses made for those who behave in such a way towards him creates an environment in which sectarianism facilitates other peoples poor behaviour.

I've said before, and i could be wrong, but of all the nasty ******* players who have made a living playing football in Scotland I can't think of anyone, Mo Johnstone excepted perhaps, who has been treated the way NL has. It runs deeper than just him being a passionate and recognisable guy.He's become a figure it's almost socially acceptable not just to hate but to go further and act on that hatred. Some may argue that's taking it too far but if any other manager had been attacked midweek a Police chief wouldn't be calling the victim a 'disgrace' and anyone suggesting he 'brought it on himself' would have been shouted down in no uncertain terms. With Lennon though we've had both those things given an airing along with a fellow manager calling him out and the media accepting this as fair comment.

yonder1875
02-11-2018, 03:22 PM
Been on my mind since the incident.

His boss has backed him, lets us all show our support for our fantastic manager tomorrow

Totally agree mate, although I think he knows we all love him.

JeMeSouviens
02-11-2018, 03:25 PM
I don't think everyone who dislikes Neil Lennon is sectarian. I would argue though that the extreme abuse Lennon does receive, the implication from some that he is 'fair game' and the excuses made for those who behave in such a way towards him creates an environment in which sectarianism facilitates other peoples poor behaviour.

I've said before, and i could be wrong, but of all the nasty ******* players who have made a living playing football in Scotland I can't think of anyone, Mo Johnstone excepted perhaps, who has been treated the way NL has. It runs deeper than just him being a passionate and recognisable guy.He's become a figure it's almost socially acceptable not just to hate but to go further and act on that hatred. Some may argue that's taking it too far but if any other manager had been attacked midweek a Police chief wouldn't be calling the victim a 'disgrace' and anyone suggesting he 'brought it on himself' would have been shouted down in no uncertain terms. With Lennon though we've had both those things given an airing along with a fellow manager calling him out and the media accepting this as fair comment.

He's the perfect storm of the type of player opposing fans love to hate (Darren Jackson, Paul Hartley etc) and an obvious target for anti-Catholic bigots (Mo Johnston, Aiden McGeady). The former usually just results in a bit of pantomime style bantz but mixed with the poison of the latter it becomes utterly toxic and dangerous.

MB62
02-11-2018, 03:30 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Brilliant piece Matty, excellently written, well done :top marks

Sylar
02-11-2018, 03:33 PM
But to make this argument Sylar you necessarily have to imply that race is a real category and that therefore discrimination not based on this real category cannot be racism. Racism is very real but race is manufactured as a way of differentiating populations to justify the domination of some over others. So race is not real in a biological sense, its only real in a social or material sense. therefore racism is about trying to maintain or assert the superiority of one group of the population over another based on these relations. This is the same as religious hatred. So what do you think are the reasons and benefits in keeping the terms separated? Some argue that we should use the term racialised for anti-Irish racism, where would you stand on that?

Some fair points Gareth, and I think this is the reason that (correct me if I'm wrong) racism doesn't have a universal legal definition? I don't have an immediate answer to your question, but it certainly makes me pause for thought!


hes right to call it for what it is, anti-irish racism. It has **** all to do with theology, catholics from other countries do not attract the same ire.

Artur Boruc would disagree with you. So would Tommy Burns, were he here to say his piece, not to mention some of the others I pointed our in my earlier post. It's an anti-Catholic sentiment that is horribly rife in this country - anyone perceived as being thusly is hounded as a result. As someone with a "Catholic" surname, I know all too well just how little nationality comes into it. And I'm not bloody Catholic!

The Harp Awakes
02-11-2018, 03:34 PM
Keep standing up to them Neil. You're loved by the Hibs fans. You'll never walk alone.

hibsbollah
02-11-2018, 03:39 PM
My social media has been more interesting reading than it normally is. Edinburgh based friends are talking about anti catholic bigotry instead of funny cat videos. A few of my hearts supporting friends agree with me that Lennon's statement is spot on and they need to do something about the new 'Loyal' element to their support. A few others are banging the 'he dived, the coin never really hit him, hes asking for it with his carry on on the sidelines' argument.

If this fixture and the events during it has done anything beneficial, its that this hidden shame of sectarianism is actually getting discussed. I wish it wasnt just Neil doing it.

BILLYHIBS
02-11-2018, 03:40 PM
Just watched Lennys interview on SSN in the boozer with the sound down listening to the piped in musaak but said to my HIBS supporting mates this does not look good his body language was not good and he did not look happy my initial thought was it looks as though he is thinking about rapping it sound of course would have been a major advantage but looking at the posted threads on here I think it is very important that we get right behind our Manager tomorrow

Sylar
02-11-2018, 03:40 PM
I don't think everyone who dislikes Neil Lennon is sectarian. I would argue though that the extreme abuse Lennon does receive, the implication from some that he is 'fair game' and the excuses made for those who behave in such a way towards him creates an environment in which sectarianism facilitates other peoples poor behaviour.

I've said before, and i could be wrong, but of all the nasty ******* players who have made a living playing football in Scotland I can't think of anyone, Mo Johnstone excepted perhaps, who has been treated the way NL has. It runs deeper than just him being a passionate and recognisable guy.He's become a figure it's almost socially acceptable not just to hate but to go further and act on that hatred. Some may argue that's taking it too far but if any other manager had been attacked midweek a Police chief wouldn't be calling the victim a 'disgrace' and anyone suggesting he 'brought it on himself' would have been shouted down in no uncertain terms. With Lennon though we've had both those things given an airing along with a fellow manager calling him out and the media accepting this as fair comment.

Nacho Novo and Fernando Ricksen (just to come away from the Catholic side of things for a second) used to receive some pretty awful abuse during their time in Scotland.

But a fair comparison for me would be Scott Brown - he's a brutal little ******* on the pitch - a smug son of a bitch that really rubs opposition fans and players up the wrong way, flies into tackles and has a lot of gamesmanship in his skill-based. He undoubtedly DOES receive abuse from fans, but it's almost "pantomime" stuff.

NL doesn't deserve any of the abuse he receives, nor do I believe he brings any of it on himself (not when compared rightly to others). He's utterly the victim. But consider the bullets in the post trial he endured a few years ago - a prominent Celtic supporting MSP and a prominent Celtic supporting lawyer were also targeted - what did they all have in common? They were all Catholic, and they were all in some way connected to Celtic. But only one of them was Irish.

hibsbollah
02-11-2018, 03:45 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1


Matty thats very impressive, and of course I agree with it throughout.:top marks

JimBHibees
02-11-2018, 03:51 PM
My social media has been more interesting reading than it normally is. Edinburgh based friends are talking about anti catholic bigotry instead of funny cat videos. A few of my hearts supporting friends agree with me that Lennon's statement is spot on and they need to do something about the new 'Loyal' element to their support. A few others are banging the 'he dived, the coin never really hit him, hes asking for it with his carry on on the sidelines' argument.

If this fixture and the events during it has done anything beneficial, its that this hidden shame of sectarianism is actually getting discussed. I wish it wasnt just Neil doing it.

Totally agree would be much more powerful if others were joining in and supporting him in his message.

hibs#1
02-11-2018, 03:54 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

100% spot on.brilliant article 👍

hibsbollah
02-11-2018, 03:57 PM
Totally agree would be much more powerful if others were joining in and supporting him in his message.

Nil By Mouth? Scottish Govt? Catholic churches even? SFA? Anyone? At the moment we have Gary Caldwell and that masonic ex-chief constable setting the agenda by saying its all his fault for being a mouthy taig, essentially.

Ryan69
02-11-2018, 03:57 PM
The SFA are too blame as much as anyone...Where is their statement???

They have basically allowed sectarianism to flourish...Giving it a blind eye the whole time.

Its getting to the stage where people are going to stop taking kids,or even letting them watch it on Tv.(The sectarian abuse was clear too hear several times from the press box on Wednesday!)

Mantis Toboggan
02-11-2018, 04:02 PM
https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1058361879804862464?s=19

The level of stupidity in almost all replies to that would be hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying.
Not one of the braindead rangers pricks seems to understand that what someone else does is largely irrelevant if you repeatedly call them a fenian .

A Hi-Bee
02-11-2018, 04:04 PM
Nil By Mouth? Scottish Govt? Catholic churches even? SFA? Anyone? At the moment we have Gary Caldwell and that masonic ex-chief constable setting the agenda by saying its all his fault for being a mouthy taig, essentially.

I have always found it a wee bit strange that in this country we appear to be able to organise protests and marches against almost anything such as the good causes against racism, peoples rights etc, but I don’t seem to be able to recall any marches or protests against sectarianism. Why would this be? I just happen to have been brought up in a different faith to our manager but he will get 100% support from me in this fight.

Hibs4185
02-11-2018, 04:05 PM
I am Lennon and Leeann’s biggest fans. The job they have done for our club is huge and cannot be forgotten. Hibs habe led the way on many fronts in the past and I feel the club should get right behind Lennon and support him 100%. I know us fans will as well.

Time for hibs to step up and call out the problem with the SFA, police Scotland and all relevant bodies. If we can’t use the events of the past week to try and change then we never will.

Eyrie
02-11-2018, 04:08 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Excellently written.

HIBERNIAN-0762
02-11-2018, 04:13 PM
No doubt we haven't heard the end of this abuse by these yam morons, tomorrow should be interesting 🙄

NAE NOOKIE
02-11-2018, 04:15 PM
As Matty F said in his article Neil Lennon the player was very easy to dislike, I bloody hated him when he played for Celtic, he was a nasty wee scrote who never thought twice about a sly wee kick or dig off the ball … seen him do it more than once at Easter Road.

But never ever ever, even if he had been a Hearts or Rangers player would I have thought bullets through the post, burning of effigies or assaults on him in the street were in any way acceptable …. there is no doubt the fact that he is an Irish Catholic was behind all of that and that is and always will be utterly unacceptable.

Matty is also right when he says that its time for the media and football authorities to get past the 'aye but they do it as well' attitude when it comes to sectarianism. We all know where the main problems lie and its time they were called out for it.

But, as I said in other threads ( and I make no apology for repeating it here ) we cannot take the moral high ground unless we set an example. It should be a source of pride to every Hibs supporter that the singing of sectarian songs is all but eradicated from Easter Road bar a few isolated incidents involving a tiny minority. We can take this further by eradicating the tricolours and Erin go bragh flags …. not because we don't have a right to fly them given the roots of this club we certainly do, but because by doing so we remove all possibility of finger pointing and whitabootery from the real bigots who point to our use of them as proof that we are no better than them …. like it or not no matter how innocent it might be, we are enabling these morons.

superbam
02-11-2018, 04:15 PM
Artur Boruc would disagree with you. So would Tommy Burns, were he here to say his piece, not to mention some of the others I pointed our in my earlier post. It's an anti-Catholic sentiment that is horribly rife in this country - anyone perceived as being thusly is hounded as a result. As someone with a "Catholic" surname, I know all too well just how little nationality comes into it. And I'm not bloody Catholic!

Celtic players are hardly the best example. A rastafarian playing for celtic would probably get anti-catholic abuse. do the italians, spanish, french etc who have played for various scottish clubs get the same level of vitriol and hatred? Those of obvious irish catholic descent attract a whole other level of bile, mostly from folk who have never even considered a visit to the kirk or whatever. For sure there is sectarianism in scotland, but we are not talking theological quarrels when it comes to the type of abuse lennon gets

matty_f
02-11-2018, 04:16 PM
A brilliant and very well written piece.

Well done!

Thank you. :aok:

matty_f
02-11-2018, 04:17 PM
Agree with every word of that.

Thanks :aok:

Saint Hibee
02-11-2018, 04:17 PM
Neil is 100% correct that this is racism, not simply sectarianism. For a certain Loyalist - leaning segment of Scottish society, being Catholic isn't simply a religious identity, but a racial one. A colleague of mine carried out research with an Orange Lodge and it became pretty clear that their talk was all about "different blood" not different religion. And next time you see an Orange March ask yourself how many of them actually go to church and follow Jesus's message of love?

matty_f
02-11-2018, 04:19 PM
Brilliant piece Matty, excellently written, well done :top marks

Much appreciated. :agree:

BILLYHIBS
02-11-2018, 04:24 PM
Much appreciated. :agree:
Great post Matty

SideBurns
02-11-2018, 04:27 PM
As Matty F said in his article Neil Lennon the player was very easy to dislike, I bloody hated him when he played for Celtic, he was a nasty wee scrote who never thought twice about a sly wee kick or dig off the ball … seen him do it more than once at Easter Road.

But never ever ever, even if he had been a Hearts or Rangers player would I have thought bullets through the post, burning of effigies or assaults on him in the street were in any way acceptable …. there is no doubt the fact that he is an Irish Catholic was behind all of that and that is and always will be utterly unacceptable.

Matty is also right when he says that its time for the media and football authorities to get past the 'aye but they do it as well' attitude when it comes to sectarianism. We all know where the main problems lie and its time they were called out for it.

But, as I said in other threads ( and I make no apology for repeating it here ) we cannot take the moral high ground unless we set an example. It should be a source of pride to every Hibs supporter that the singing of sectarian songs is all but eradicated from Easter Road bar a few isolated incidents involving a tiny minority. We can take this further by eradicating the tricolours and Erin go bragh flags …. not because we don't have a right to fly them given the roots of this club we certainly do, but because by doing so we remove all possibility of finger pointing and whitabootery from the real bigots who point to our use of them as proof that we are no better than them …. like it or not no matter how innocent it might be, we are enabling these morons.

Nae Nookie, i genuinely enjoy your well thought out posts on various subjects but i just think you've got this wrong. If the tricolours & harp flags disappeared from our support tomorrow, do you think the Huns & their equivalents in the Hearts support would hate us any less? We'd still be a shower of Fenian b###ards, but we'd have made a conscious decision not to fly a flag which is inoffensive to all but the deeply-bigoted in order to placate those same bigots. We don't "enable these morons" - it is their choice to take a stance which defies logic and common decency.

sadtom
02-11-2018, 04:29 PM
Its hard to see what chance we have of removing this bigot poison from our society when even at moments when the cavemen are in full 'sash bash' mode, they are not called out for it but are instead congratulated for the 'fantastic atmosphere' etc by the utter cowards in the MSM. People need to start referring to these odious cretins what they are...bigots and racists...and not pandered to and apologised for by those in a position to do so.

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2018, 04:29 PM
I'd like Hibs to come out with some of the same sentiments as NL has, even if only to back him.

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 04:33 PM
'Sometimes it's worse here than it is back home.'

That line from Lennon should make every single right thinking person in this country feel ashamed. It won't but it should.

brog
02-11-2018, 04:36 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1


That is top class. :top marks

hibbydog
02-11-2018, 04:41 PM
Lennon will eventually decide he’s had enough and walk away. I won’t blame him. Does anyone really need this **** in their life?

For generations the footballing authorities in Scotland have silently condoned bigotry. By doing nothing, or very little, about it they’ve just let it go on. Either they can’t be ar5ed doing anything about it or they don’t want to upset the knuckle draggers.

Either way it’s disgraceful and if this is what people see of our national game, I’m thoroughly ashamed of it.

Scott Allan Key
02-11-2018, 04:42 PM
If he had a Muslim faith , you bet the authorities in Scotland wouldn’t be standing for it. It feels abusing Catholics is ok in Scotland.

Hopefully, hibs fans show Lenny tomorrow how much we love him

Total nonsense and a myth as although sectarianism is rife and ignored, it is also becoming socially acceptable to abuse Muslims. I should know, I was abused on here recently and the admins did and said nothing, despite reporting the post and individual.

SideBurns
02-11-2018, 04:45 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Just read that, Matty - absolutely nailed it.

calumhibee1
02-11-2018, 04:56 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Great piece Matty and not a lot that can be added to it.

Would be nice to see Hibs, Leanne, Petrie, the players and prominent supporters groups etc all come together in a public statement of solidarity with Lennon and his comments on the matter to show we back him every step of the way.

I would then like to see us release a statement calling it out after every single game that he’s subjected to it seeing as the MSM won’t do it.

Pretty Boy
02-11-2018, 04:57 PM
Total nonsense and a myth as although sectarianism is rife and ignored, it is also becoming socially acceptable to abuse Muslims. I should know, I was abused on here recently and the admins did and said nothing, despite reporting the post and individual.

We don't usually comment on reported posts, bans etc but I think, given the discussion, it's important to reply here.

We receive a number of posts that are reported in error, an individual on a phone uses the report button rather than reply. When I read your report I thought that what was happened and looking again it appears other admins agreed. The post you reported was indeed misguided, in my opinion, and the reason for your report read like a reply to that point and a decent explanation of what was incorrect within it. Again looking back I can't see anything that was directly abusive towards yourself although I accept we can all read things differently and I personally didn't want to censor a discussion in which several other people also called out the poster in question and were critical of his point of view.

Vault Boy
02-11-2018, 04:57 PM
Excellent and important press conference from Neil. This culture cannot continue and is a national embarrassment.

The Green Goblin
02-11-2018, 05:01 PM
Disagree. He’s calling it out for what it is

The word sectarianism has developed into a bit of a euphemism for racism in Scotland. It’s the acceptable face of racism, a nice flowery term used by the media to mask the problems of rampant religious hatred in this country.

People who wouldn’t dream about singing songs about being up to their knees in n*****s blood are quite happy to sing the same thing about fenians because they’re not racist, just a little bit sectarian. It’s all just a bit joke. Racism is awful but sectarianism is just a bit of banter.

Ok, it might not meet the dictionary definition or anything like that but the term simply doesn’t pack the same punch as ‘racism’ does. Lennon has done a good thing here by pointing out that when it’s all said and done they are one and the same thing.

In a nutshell. Far too many people who could actually change this (especially in the media) are either complicit, don’t take it seriously or have their heads firmly buried in the sand.

The proof of the truth of this is the shameful current situation where a man who has had bullets sent to him in the post, been attacked in the street and on the pitch and who is the target of disgusting and prolonged sectarian abuse against certain teams on matchday is accused by several people on national media, including a former senior police figure of “bringing it upon himself”. Much easier to do that than actually acknowledge the problem and tackle it effectively. Pathetic and cowardly on their part, as usual.

In other totally unrelated news, looking forward to seeing some hilarious sectarian banter on Only an Excuse again on Hogmanay this year....

yonder1875
02-11-2018, 05:06 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Very well said.

I hope to hear a loud and early chant of there’s only one Neil Lennon tomorrow.

No other club in the UK has to rally behind their manager like we do, it’s a ****ing disgrace and it’s an issue for me that will never be resolved. I think a lot of people have hatred for NL which is too deeply embedded now.

Bishop Hibee
02-11-2018, 05:14 PM
Agree with Lennon and posted the same on a previous thread. While anti-Irish and anti-catholic behaviour in word and deed were slowly dying out in Scotland, the rise of the alt-right fascists, Yaxley Lennon etc have emboldened those who expound these views in private to express them in public again. The authorities and us members of the public must act. Challenge this behaviour and any bigotry or racism where you come across it including among the Hibs support.

marinello59
02-11-2018, 05:17 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396

Neil Lennon deserves 100% backing from decent football fans of all clubs in Scotland. Every word he said is correct.

Danderhall Hibs
02-11-2018, 05:21 PM
Funny reading some of the comments on twitter - “it’s not racism” and “there was no effigy” - better pulling him up on definitions and terminologies rather than confronting the issue eh?

Smartie
02-11-2018, 05:24 PM
I'd like Hibs to come out with some of the same sentiments as NL has, even if only to back him.

:agree:

The time is right to choose which side we're on, and it's not the hush hush, sweep sweep, move along side that I want us to be on.

As I said before, I'm of a Scottish protestant/ atheist heritage and both my grandfathers were Rangers fans. I'm disgusted at what Neil Lennon has to put up with and even more disgusted at the quiet acceptance of it by so many. The words over the past few days from the former policeman that basically said he brings it on himself are some of the most offensive words to have come from someone who held such an office and it is a national scandal that he was able to feel so comfortable making such comments.

I'm 100% behind Neil Lennon and salute his efforts to continue to stand up to this nonsense.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 05:25 PM
Excellently written.

Thanks mate.

Deansy
02-11-2018, 05:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396

Brendan Rodgers

'But I'm sure authorities and everyone will try and improve on that ......................'

:faf:

Dashing Bob S
02-11-2018, 05:28 PM
Lennon is onto something when he conflates ‘sectarianism’ with anti Irish/Irish diaspora racism. There are some grumblings when the Huns sign an Italian or Spaniard cross wearing, self crossing catholic, but when a Mo Johnson figure (essentially a Scottish or Irish catholic figure) is signed or mooted (or now not, it’s hard to see them doing that again) the **** hits the fan.

It has complex roots and certainly Lennon’s experiences of it in Scotland can be compared to the very worst racism elsewhere. Wheeling out establishment huns to do the tired simpleton ‘he brings it on himself’ line is just underscoring this and both illustrating and compounding sectarianism/anti Irish racism.

Seveno
02-11-2018, 05:35 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Great blog. Nail on head.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
02-11-2018, 05:35 PM
As a club, we have a very proud history of combatting and defeating the scottish / presbyterian racism and religious bigotry against irish / irish catholics.

We need to be honouring that history by rallying 100% behind lennon, and well done to leeann d for doing that so far.

Yes he goes over the top at times, but he gets and serves his punishments for these things.

When will scottish football and society address its deep rooted anti catholic attitudes?

Dashing Bob S
02-11-2018, 05:39 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

This is excellent, thoughtful clear-headed and well written analysis from Matty. Every Hibs fan should read this and it should be our club’s official position on this issue.

JeMeSouviens
02-11-2018, 05:40 PM
Who runs the "kick it out - show racism the red card" thing?

Time to expand that?

Or maybe these guys - http://farenet.org/get-involved/report-discrimination/

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2018, 05:41 PM
:agree:

The time is right to choose which side we're on, and it's not the hush hush, sweep sweep, move along side that I want us to be on.

As I said before, I'm of a Scottish protestant/ atheist heritage and both my grandfathers were Rangers fans. I'm disgusted at what Neil Lennon has to put up with and even more disgusted at the quiet acceptance of it by so many. The words over the past few days from the former policeman that basically said he brings it on himself are some of the most offensive words to have come from someone who held such an office and it is a national scandal that he was able to feel so comfortable making such comments.

I'm 100% behind Neil Lennon and salute his efforts to continue to stand up to this nonsense.

Matty nailed it in his blog, there is a rise in anti-catholicism right now, the former policeman confirms it with his comments.
Sadly Scotland is now beyond being a parody of N.Ireland. Even sadder is the fact that the younger generation don't have a Scooby as to the meaning of their chants and flags across both sides.

JeMeSouviens
02-11-2018, 05:45 PM
Aha http://www.kickitout.org/news/next-20-star-wes-foderingham-leads-the-way-in-scotland-through-equality-workshop/#.W9yMgGX7RhE

So they're not doing *absolutely* nothing.

The next time they have one of those days where they do the red card thing, they should specifically highlight anti-Catholic bigotry. I wonder what Wes knows/thinks about orange strips? :rolleyes:

Lago
02-11-2018, 05:59 PM
Lennon could well walk away from us & Scottish football over this. Quite clear the SFA or police Scotland will do anything about the constant sectarian abuse lennon receives. Whatever happens think we need to show neil how much we’re behind him.
Your right & I think he may well be off in the near future, can you imagine how it will be next time Hibs are at Ibrox ?

Golden Bear
02-11-2018, 06:01 PM
Does Brendan Rogers suffer from the same abuse?

GreenCastle
02-11-2018, 06:05 PM
Main news on Sky Sports News!

Lots of people will be watching this !!

JeMeSouviens
02-11-2018, 06:05 PM
Does Brendan Rogers suffer from the same abuse?

He says yes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46073396


Celtic boss - and Lennon's compatriot - Brendan Rodgers says he "gets quite a bit of abuse" during matches.

"Whatever your religion is and wherever you're from and whatever your personality as a manager, it doesn't matter. You shouldn't be subject to that. It's irrelevant," Rodgers said.

"But I'm sure authorities and everyone will try and improve on that because it's not an image of the game we would want up here. I've been up here two-and-a-half years and it's been a brilliant place to work and live.

"But of course it can't overstep the mark. You come to a football pitch, you're in to do a professional job, you want the intensity, the passion, but you have to be protected as a player and a manager in that environment.

"I get quite a bit of abuse as well but my focus is very much on the game. That's not right or wrong - it's just my way, other managers are different. But ultimately you have to be able to work without the threat of being hit with a coin or a punch."

Bishop Hibee
02-11-2018, 06:07 PM
Does Brendan Rogers suffer from the same abuse?

No because he deals with the abuse he does get in a different way as he is a different character. There is nothing wrong with either response. Lennon confronts and challenges it, Rodgers lets it slide. Also Rodgers didn’t play for Celtc. Plenty on here were anti-Lennon for a variety of reasons when we employed him. Hopefully everyone is 100% behind him now.

McHibby
02-11-2018, 06:18 PM
I don't agree with his use of the word 'racism' but it is 100% a hate crime and should be treated as such.

The vile nonsense that some Muslims have to put up is rightly classed as a hate crime, and is dealt with more severely by the courts.

Like Islam, people from all races are Catholic. A reprehensible element in this country have made it necessary to strengthen anti-Semitic and anti-Islam punishments. Unfortunately it looks like Scotland needs to do the same for anti-Catholic behaviour. It is an embarrassment.

Why the hell anyone gives a toss in this day and age is beyond me.

WoreTheGreen
02-11-2018, 06:18 PM
This can of worms will never be opened to at many at the top (gfa) to much to loose

SouthMoroccoStu
02-11-2018, 06:21 PM
If he had a Muslim faith , you bet the authorities in Scotland wouldn’t be standing for it. It feels abusing Catholics is ok in Scotland.

Hopefully, hibs fans show Lenny tomorrow how much we love him

This sums it up perfectly

Im sick to this MASSIVE issue being dismissed in Scotland

The police and government are guilty of taking an extremely limited stance on this with has allowed it to continue and fester

Replace this with anti Jewish (semitism) or anti Muslim and this would have been severely dealt with

FranckSuzy
02-11-2018, 06:33 PM
I have always found it a wee bit strange that in this country we appear to be able to organise protests and marches against almost anything such as the good causes against racism, peoples rights etc, but I don’t seem to be able to recall any marches or protests against sectarianism. Why would this be? I just happen to have been brought up in a different faith to our manager but he will get 100% support from me in this fight.

Agree with every word :agree: :aok:

CockneyRebel
02-11-2018, 06:35 PM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.



Do you get out much?

hibbyfraelibby
02-11-2018, 06:44 PM
Remember the Abusive Behaviour at Football legislation the band waggoners and the apologists combined to have repealed? Are they happy now?

greenlex
02-11-2018, 06:48 PM
Well done Neil Lennon. Needs said. Needs acted on.

CentreLine
02-11-2018, 07:02 PM
No because he deals with the abuse he does get in a different way as he is a different character. There is nothing wrong with either response. Lennon confronts and challenges it, Rodgers lets it slide. Also Rodgers didn’t play for Celtc. Plenty on here were anti-Lennon for a variety of reasons when we employed him. Hopefully everyone is 100% behind him now.

Rodgers didn’t play for Celtic, no. He also didn’t play, as a catholic, for Northern Ireland. I believe NL started to be abused because he was of “the wrong religion” playing international football for Northern Ireland. It’s all too bizarre to to contemplate.

brisbanehibs
02-11-2018, 07:09 PM
Well done Neil for raising this so passionately. The deep rooted nature of sectarianism (racism) in Scotland and especially in football is shameful. We have politicians telling us we are a "progressive" country and yet passively tolerate this and REPEAL legislation aimed at dealing with it....the power of the old firm means the SFA are mute and complicit. Many in the broadcast media, who have the greatest reach,have roots in west coast and have grown up with this stuff and again it strikes me there is passive acceptance. The likes of Graham Spiers are notable exceptions and pay for it by losing their jobs on the Herald and getting banned from Ibrox. Neil's biggest achievement is to get this into the UK media as it is only through this exposure that authorities may be embarrased into action. Have often wondered what we, as Scottish football fans, can do about this. Boycotting home games against The Rangers etc would send a message but hurt our club and none of us would want to do that. But I really jope Neil's passion and anger start something, if it was race we were talking about this wouldn't go away....

CockneyRebel
02-11-2018, 07:10 PM
:agree:

The time is right to choose which side we're on, and it's not the hush hush, sweep sweep, move along side that I want us to be on.

As I said before, I'm of a Scottish protestant/ atheist heritage and both my grandfathers were Rangers fans. I'm disgusted at what Neil Lennon has to put up with and even more disgusted at the quiet acceptance of it by so many. The words over the past few days from the former policeman that basically said he brings it on himself are some of the most offensive words to have come from someone who held such an office and it is a national scandal that he was able to feel so comfortable making such comments.

I'm 100% behind Neil Lennon and salute his efforts to continue to stand up to this nonsense.



:top marks

O'Rourke3
02-11-2018, 07:20 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Excellent Blog Mattie.

A Hi-Bee
02-11-2018, 07:23 PM
Some powerful words said and this is the much longer version, not the short version on bbc Scotland which then goes on about Brendan Rogers. (It the bbc Scotland piece) missed out the fact that when asked about the situation Brendan said he did not want to go there.
The full version does not miss, and is well worth a read.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46076330

:flag::flag::flag:

GGTTH

jgl07
02-11-2018, 07:24 PM
The question is if Lennon walks, who will follow?

A few years back the Scottish Football establishment wanted to fast-track the new club ‘The Rangers’ back to the PL or the Championship. The fans stood firm and they capitulated. What will happen here?

CockneyRebel
02-11-2018, 07:35 PM
Funny reading some of the comments on twitter - “it’s not racism” and “there was no effigy” - better pulling him up on definitions and terminologies rather than confronting the issue eh?

They don't have any plausible repostes so they have to resort to fudging the issue.

CockneyRebel
02-11-2018, 07:45 PM
In a nutshell. Far too many people who could actually change this (especially in the media) are either complicit, don’t take it seriously or have their heads firmly buried in the sand.

The proof of the truth of this is the shameful current situation where a man who has had bullets sent to him in the post, been attacked in the street and on the pitch and who is the target of disgusting and prolonged sectarian abuse against certain teams on matchday is accused by several people on national media, including a former senior police figure of “bringing it upon himself”. Much easier to do that than actually acknowledge the problem and tackle it effectively. Pathetic and cowardly on their part, as usual.

In other totally unrelated news, looking forward to seeing some hilarious sectarian banter on Only an Excuse again on Hogmanay this year....


- or have their hands tied behind their backs.

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2018, 07:47 PM
The question is if Lennon walks, who will follow?

A few years back the Scottish Football establishment wanted to fast-track the new club ‘The Rangers’ back to the PL or the Championship. The fans stood firm and they capitulated. What will happen here?

Nobody and nothing, blatantly obvious and brutally sad.

Bostonhibby
02-11-2018, 07:49 PM
I have always found it a wee bit strange that in this country we appear to be able to organise protests and marches against almost anything such as the good causes against racism, peoples rights etc, but I don’t seem to be able to recall any marches or protests against sectarianism. Why would this be? I just happen to have been brought up in a different faith to our manager but he will get 100% support from me in this fight.[emoji106]

Excellent point well made.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

DaveF
02-11-2018, 07:56 PM
That is a brilliant blog Matty and should be published and discussed in the MSM but sadly none of them would have the balls to write something as good as that.

Great stuff.

EVENTUALLY
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
:agree:

The time is right to choose which side we're on, and it's not the hush hush, sweep sweep, move along side that I want us to be on.

As I said before, I'm of a Scottish protestant/ atheist heritage and both my grandfathers were Rangers fans. I'm disgusted at what Neil Lennon has to put up with and even more disgusted at the quiet acceptance of it by so many. The words over the past few days from the former policeman that basically said he brings it on himself are some of the most offensive words to have come from someone who held such an office and it is a national scandal that he was able to feel so comfortable making such comments.

I'm 100% behind Neil Lennon and salute his efforts to continue to stand up to this nonsense.

Me too. He has put up with a terrible amount of abuse and is entirely justified in challenging Scottish society to set about the moronic bigots who are not worthy of being part of an inclusive, social and progressive country.

mjhibby
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
A poster mentioned on another thread that during the BBC Scotland Commentary (from the press box conveniently positioned in the middle front of the new main stand) that you could clearly hear sectarian insults being shouted. And on more than one occasion the commentator had to apologise.

Can we not request these are aired again just to prove what he has to put up with from fans in certain grounds?

I listened to the last five mins of the game and it was a continuous flow of sectarian anti Catholic bile. As has been said if it was anti black or anti Muslim the police would be on it like a flash but it just seems to be accepted as part of life in Scotland. Its unbelievable in 2018 that this is still swept under the carpet. Guys like Rodgers and Martin O'Neil don't have the balls to call it what it is. There have been teams having to play behind closed doors for racist chants so what's the difference in what lenny has to put up with. Even a staunch jambo pal of mine said he's had enough of the sectarianism. If budge is serious the she needs to make it clear its not acceptable and really do something about It but we know that won't happen as sevco would have to do something with their bigots. What a Backward country we really are if this is just the way it is as Bruce hornby said. Utterly disgraceful and shameful on Scotland.

Skol
02-11-2018, 08:12 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc

Weegreenman
02-11-2018, 08:15 PM
It’s absolutely shocking the abuse he gets. We all know the reasons why. Sectarianism needs to be stamped out in Scotland once and for all but you can bet it won’t and we all know why. The Old Firm:wink:

Hi Heid Yin
02-11-2018, 08:22 PM
If he had a Muslim faith , you bet the authorities in Scotland wouldn’t be standing for it. It feels abusing Catholics is ok in Scotland.

Hopefully, hibs fans show Lenny tomorrow how much we love him

Because of its accuracy and truth, the most profound comment yet.
:top marks

LichtieHibby
02-11-2018, 08:24 PM
https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42804642?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fw ww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

stoneyburn hibs
02-11-2018, 08:26 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lenin does he shouldnt be attached, coined, sent bullets etc

Right you are.

Hi Heid Yin
02-11-2018, 08:30 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Well articulated and written piece on a very important issue.
:top marks

WhileTheChief..
02-11-2018, 08:31 PM
The full press conference is on Hibs tv, well worth watching.

He finishes by again saying how much he loves it here and when pressed he said he’d see how things pan out over the next year or two.

He’s going nowhere soon.

Iggy Pope
02-11-2018, 08:33 PM
I'm pretty certain most on this thread, most Hibbies in fact, will have Roman Catholics sitting next to them or yards from them every home game. Whether they know them or not.
Most are seasoned to this. None of them get the vitriol of hundreds (maybe thousands) direct right at them, personally, like Neil Lennon does every time he crosses that white line. All of them though, will know that this **** runs deep and has done since the day they were born and they hear it. They hear it a ****ing lot.
There is no defence of this bigotry, no whataboutery applies and I'm astonished that this has somehow crept into this forum, where some amongst us choose to stroke their learned chins about the terminology Neil Lennon has used. Or, on other threads, they look to vilify other sections of the support in backing up their weak viewpoint.

Time to stand behind the man, no dubiety. And get all of this pointless inward questioning out the way.

FranckSuzy
02-11-2018, 08:38 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lenin does he shouldnt be attached, coined, sent bullets etc

:wink:

So Peter Houston couldn't complain about abuse, or Jim Duffy for that matter, after some of their antics? There are many managers who let their emotions run away with them but not one of them deserves the treatment Neil Lennon receives.

I've witnessed the Hearts bench celebrate an equaliser/winner on many an occasion (sadly :rolleyes:) as though they'd just scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, and if they had been attacked/abused, I'd condemn that behaviour too.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 08:53 PM
That is a brilliant blog Matty and should be published and discussed in the MSM but sadly none of them would have the balls to write something as good as that.

Great stuff.

Appreciate that, Dave - cheers.

The_Horde
02-11-2018, 08:54 PM
Decent read that Matty, cheers for taking the time to do it.

There needs to be more done about all kinds of abuse in Scottish football but the sectarianism should be the first to go.

147lothian
02-11-2018, 09:21 PM
Anti-catholic "racism"?

It's called sectarianism Neil :rolleyes:

I agree with the rest of his assessment of the events and abuse he faces, but FFS, leave that well enough alone.

It an issue that's been brushed under the carpet and a blight on Scotland for too long, maybe Neil calling it racism will help to get it addressed, I just wish you left it alone.

Skol
02-11-2018, 09:28 PM
:wink:

So Peter Houston couldn't complain about abuse, or Jim Duffy for that matter, after some of their antics? There are many managers who let their emotions run away with them but not one of them deserves the treatment Neil Lennon receives.

I've witnessed the Hearts bench celebrate an equaliser/winner on many an occasion (sadly :rolleyes:) as though they'd just scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, and if they had been attacked/abused, I'd condemn that behaviour too.

I didnt say anywhere that he deserved it. However, his behaviour doesn't exactly help matters and he should reflect on that and Dempster should be talking to him about his conduct.

I agree that Houston should have had a ,long hard look at himself as well. As should many on the Hearts side. Locke being a good example.

marinello59
02-11-2018, 09:30 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc

If you listen to what Lennon said today there can be no doubt that a lot of the vitriol directed towards him is sectarian in nature. He’s right, it is racist and I hope our club starts to call it out every time it happens in our ground from now on.

Antifa Hibs
02-11-2018, 09:57 PM
Great piece from Matty.

Is our own club as much to blame as the rest of Scottish society for sweeping this under the carpet?

We were quick enough to get a statement out about the wee fud who threw the dig at the Hearts goalie but as far as i'm aware have never once publicly come out against Rangers, Hearts and even Aberdeen when they've sang about our manager being a Fenian *******? (Perhaps abit harsh chucking the sheep and jambos in with the huns because as much as i've no time for both clubs it is a minority, compared to the huns were it is a majority)

Lago
02-11-2018, 10:44 PM
I'm pretty certain most on this thread, most Hibbies in fact, will have Roman Catholics sitting next to them or yards from them every home game. Whether they know them or not.
Most are seasoned to this. None of them get the vitriol of hundreds (maybe thousands) direct right at them, personally, like Neil Lennon does every time he crosses that white line. All of them though, will know that this **** runs deep and has done since the day they were born and they hear it. They hear it a ****ing lot.
There is no defence of this bigotry, no whataboutery applies and I'm astonished that this has somehow crept into this forum, where some amongst us choose to stroke their learned chins about the terminology Neil Lennon has used. Or, on other threads, they look to vilify other sections of the support in backing up their weak viewpoint.

Time to stand behind the man, no dubiety. And get all of this pointless inward questioning out the way.
Super post absolutley spot on, I said earlier that I can't believe how many excuses are being made about bad behaviour at football.

The Harp Awakes
02-11-2018, 10:56 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc

Rangers or jambo. Who are you?

Jonnyboy
02-11-2018, 11:02 PM
https://hibscomebackison.blogspot.com/2018/11/ill-start-this-blog-by-firstly-setting_2.html?m=1

Top quality, top, top quality, Matty

Hiber-nation
02-11-2018, 11:06 PM
I'm pretty certain most on this thread, most Hibbies in fact, will have Roman Catholics sitting next to them or yards from them every home game. Whether they know them or not.
Most are seasoned to this. None of them get the vitriol of hundreds (maybe thousands) direct right at them, personally, like Neil Lennon does every time he crosses that white line. All of them though, will know that this **** runs deep and has done since the day they were born and they hear it. They hear it a ****ing lot.
There is no defence of this bigotry, no whataboutery applies and I'm astonished that this has somehow crept into this forum, where some amongst us choose to stroke their learned chins about the terminology Neil Lennon has used. Or, on other threads, they look to vilify other sections of the support in backing up their weak viewpoint.

Time to stand behind the man, no dubiety. And get all of this pointless inward questioning out the way.

Very good S. Folk should read this carefully.

Dobosz83
02-11-2018, 11:13 PM
I feel a fuse has been lit and quite frankly I’m disgusted at what I’m seeing on social media over this incident and reconsidering the people I regard as ‘mates’.

I honestly cannot fathom why anyone thinks this is justifyable. Ex cop claiming a riot could have started because of him? Really! The vile chants about him being a Fenian and bead rattler etc are constant and nothing is done. It’s loud and clear on TV and radio, week in week out and NOTHING gets done, as religion is fair game in our country.

The spin is now that others havent suffered the abuse despite similar backgrounds and its Lennon’s actions alone are the reason! Really!? I could have closed my eyes in the Roseburn on Wednesday and thought I was at Ibrox at times. I’m not having that, panto villains don’t get this treatment.

What a cesspit our country is and a horrible undertone simmers without being called out. I’ll be at Easter Road tomorrow and backing our gaffer 100% regardless of performance and result.

matty_f
02-11-2018, 11:19 PM
Top quality, top, top quality, Matty

Thanks Jonnyboy, that means a lot. :aok:

superfurryhibby
03-11-2018, 10:27 AM
You can't actually be serious? Sectarianism is defined in law. As is racism. Definitions matter, so I do care about the meaning of the word he's using. Roman Catholics come from all races, backgrounds and cultures. He belittles racial abuse which occurs much more readily and with much more lethal consequences on a day to day basis because it's explicit. He was shamefully abused because of his religious background and the perpetrator needs dealt with in no uncertain terms. But it was the result of sectarian violence.

Sectarianism is a vile issue that needs addressed urgently, but trying to use "racism" to seemingly "up the ante" is just going to result in him rightly being ridiculed.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/politicians-condemn-anti-irish-abuse-of-neil-lennon-1-4823922

Good to see there is some recognition of the racist element associated with cultural hatred emerging from politicians and organisations.

This is worth reading in terms of racism and religion

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/muslims-are-not-a-race_b_8591660.html?guccounter=1

Billy Whizz
03-11-2018, 12:11 PM
Has anyone been arrested for throwing the coin at him?

Phil MaGlass
03-11-2018, 12:15 PM
:agree:

The time is right to choose which side we're on, and it's not the hush hush, sweep sweep, move along side that I want us to be on.

As I said before, I'm of a Scottish protestant/ atheist heritage and both my grandfathers were Rangers fans. I'm disgusted at what Neil Lennon has to put up with and even more disgusted at the quiet acceptance of it by so many. The words over the past few days from the former policeman that basically said he brings it on himself are some of the most offensive words to have come from someone who held such an office and it is a national scandal that he was able to feel so comfortable making such comments.

I'm 100% behind Neil Lennon and salute his efforts to continue to stand up to this nonsense.

The Lodge members are deeply embedded in the police.
"Move along please, theres nothing to see here"

Phil MaGlass
03-11-2018, 12:23 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc

F,n WOW jings! crivvens! help ma boab!!!

Hi Heid Yin
03-11-2018, 12:29 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc


The highlighted line is the only relevant thing in this matter.

wookie70
03-11-2018, 12:31 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc

I have read lots of posts on here and on social media in the last few days and the hatred and lack of sympathy for what happened to Lennon is breathtaking in the 21st century, particularly in a self style welcoming nation like Scotland. I might have some lingering doubts (they have nearly all faded) about his managerial acumen but I am right beside him on this and the time is right to start a campaign to try and tackle sectarianism. If your not with him you are against him on this matter. It is time to choose sides and I'm on Lennons

adhibs
03-11-2018, 12:41 PM
Sorry to disagree,

Lennon is a wind up merchant and thats why he gets abuse. We disliked him before he came to Hibs, was that sectarian ?

Yes some of that abuse he gets is cheap shot sectarian stuff, but the primary cause is the way lennon conducts himself not because he is Irish or catholic.

He was out of order on Wednesday and if he and Dempster cant see that, then they shouldnt be in the roles they are in.

That said, despite what Lennon does he shouldnt be attacked, coined, sent bullets etc


Levein is a far bigger wind up merchant then Lennon. I'd love to know how he manages to get away with this without receiving the complete hatred that Lennon does?