SNP and trade unions

[lucky]

I’m Flabbergasted that some, not all, within the SNP seem to think it’s open season on Scottish trade unionists. The attacks on GMB, Unison and EIS members and their officials seems to be at odds with the SNP position of being left of centre. Surely they realise that a yes vote will only be delivered by getting organised workers onboard. Some of the attacks on the equal pay claim strikers and teachers are plain stupid. To even contemplate that these 3 unions are only taking action because they want to attack the SNP is delusional. It’s the members that vote for strike action not their elected officials.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/nicola-sturgeon-urged-to-investigate-claims-snp-members-promoted-vile-anti-semitic-blog-1-4821385

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13479/snp-and-indy-campaigners-must-avoid-rift-trade-union-movement-leading-activists-say

http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/anti-semetic-attack

[beensaidbefore]

Wasn't sure what I was going to read there. I have had a look at the blog too. Imo he makes quite a few good points but those are all missed in the other articles. He does make an inresting point early I the argicle where he asserts that by becoming the victim you can effective deflect from your shortcomings. He then provides a reasoned argument where he sees her failings as a leader/protagonist. I'm sure the article could have been written without reference to Hitler or mein campf, but would we talking about it now. Shame that all people will hear is anti-semitism though as there are some other decent points raised imo.

https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/author/grousebeater/

[lucky]

Wasn't sure what I was going to read there. I have had a look at the blog too. Imo he makes quite a few good points but those are all missed in the other articles. He does make an inresting point early I the argicle where he asserts that by becoming the victim you can effective deflect from your shortcomings. He then provides a reasoned argument where he sees her failings as a leader/protagonist. I'm sure the article could have been written without reference to Hitler or mein campf, but would we talking about it now. Shame that all people will hear is anti-semitism though as there are some other decent points raised imo.

https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/author/grousebeater/

The blogger is now suspended from the SNP and a local councillor has apologised. The GMB are bringing the police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46031103

[RyeSloan]

Having read the blog I must admit that I’m totally confused as to the point he was trying to make re Hitler and Wolfson and it certainly came across as a bit contrived to get the oblique anti Semitic line in.

As for the rest of it...well there may be some point re the GMB and Wolfson but wow it’s all rather lost in a sea of bitterness topped off with an odd obsession around the need for unions to be ‘indigenous’.

[wpj]

Anti Semitism is on the rise in Britain often papered over or hidden in the shadow of anti Muslim rhetoric but it's there.
Not sure what the whole story is with the SNP and unions is but it's best dealt with quickly, look at Labour and their ongoing row.

[MountcastleHibs]

As a teacher who is a member of both the EIS and the SNP, I have found the attacks on the unions this week quite infuriating.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Sone of my colleagues - SNP members - had their comments removed from the SNP trade union group Facebook page removed when the their employer and the Scottish Government were trying to screw their grade over. They're not a left wing party.

[Tornadoes70]

Sone of my colleagues - SNP members - had their comments removed from the SNP trade union group Facebook page removed when the their employer and the Scottish Government were trying to screw their grade over. They're not a left wing party.

I highlighted on here some time ago that the snp are much more aligned with the very worst presbytarian tories than our left wing Labour brothers and sisters. I've been a card carrying Labour and union man for a long time and its very obvious to most of us that the snp are right up there with the tories.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[Beefster]

As usual, the SNP will get away with doing what they want. They can mess up education and the NHS, make little difference on poverty etc - a fair proportion of the electorate will continue to vote for them regardless.

[SkintHibby]

As usual, the SNP will get away with doing what they want. They can mess up education and the NHS, make little difference on poverty etc - a fair proportion of the electorate will continue to vote for them regardless.

The reason a fair proportion of the electorate still vote for them is because across the board they are generally doing a fine job and they are the only party that ACTUALLY cares for Scotland. Only yoons like yourself with blinkers on can't see it.:agree:

[SkintHibby]

I highlighted on here some time ago that the snp are much more aligned with the very worst presbytarian tories than our left wing Labour brothers and sisters. I've been a card carrying Labour and union man for a long time and its very obvious to most of us that the snp are right up there with the tories.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

Utter rubbish. In Scotland its the tories and Labour that are in bed with each other. Labour and that wee nyaff who runs Scottish Labour are an utter disgrace. Nothing but red tories.

[Peevemor]

As usual, the SNP will get away with doing what they want. They can mess up education and the NHS, make little difference on poverty etc - a fair proportion of the electorate will continue to vote for them regardless.

It worked for the Labour party for decades.

[CropleyWasGod]

The reason a fair proportion of the electorate still vote for them is because across the board they are generally doing a fine job and they are the only party that ACTUALLY cares for Scotland. Only yoons like yourself with blinkers on can't see it.:agree:

It's possible to criticise the SNP and not be a "yoon". [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

The 2 issues are poles apart.

The equal pay dispute in Glasgow is Labour's mess and the GMB have hardly covered themselves in glory over the years either. The teachers' dispute is a much more straightforward case of the unions standing up for their members who have seen their salaries considerably eroded over the period of austerity.

Perhaps you could point out where the attacks and open season on EIS members and officials have taken place? I can't see any with a cursory google.

So, to the actual evidence you've presented - 1 anonymous blog, disowned by the SNP, who have suspended the blogger's membership of the party. So nobody from the party leadership, or a parliamentarian or even a candidate, not a councillor or an elected official. The claim of wholesale union bashing is looking a touch thin at this point!

The actual blog in question is a bit weird. It's a personal attack on Rhea Wolfson who is a GMB official but also a prominent supported of Corbynism in Scotland, an official in Momentum, a Labour NEC member and parliamentary candidate. The blog is more an attack on Labour and their shameless using of the Glasgow women's equal pay dispute than it is on the unions. The paragraph on Hitler is ill-judged and given Rhea Wolfson's heritage, certainly offensive. However, I don't really see how it can be construed as anti-semitic given that it seems to be a condemnation of the Nazis? I also don't really see what it's doing there as it doesn't seem to make any point relevant to the rest of the article.

I do agree that the Yes movement needs trade unions on board and ideally the Labour party to see the light. I also think it would be by far the most straightforward route for Labour's rehabilitation for it to join Yes.

[Mr Grieves]

I’m Flabbergasted that some, not all, within the SNP seem to think it’s open season on Scottish trade unionists. The attacks on GMB, Unison and EIS members and their officials seems to be at odds with the SNP position of being left of centre. Surely they realise that a yes vote will only be delivered by getting organised workers onboard. Some of the attacks on the equal pay claim strikers and teachers are plain stupid. To even contemplate that these 3 unions are only taking action because they want to attack the SNP is delusional. It’s the members that vote for strike action not their elected officials.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/nicola-sturgeon-urged-to-investigate-claims-snp-members-promoted-vile-anti-semitic-blog-1-4821385

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13479/snp-and-indy-campaigners-must-avoid-rift-trade-union-movement-leading-activists-say

http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/anti-semetic-attack

Most of the criticism (or "attacks" if you want it sound that wee bit more dramatic) I've read have been aimed at Labour for attempting to gain political capital from a crisis they are responsible for.

I would agree that anyone in the SNP criticising striking workers would be counterproductive but I don't think this is the case, bearing in mind that random bloggers and punters on twitter aren't the SNP.

As for that blog, I can't say if it's anti-semitic or not as I haven't got a clue what point he was making.

[Mr Grieves]

As usual, the SNP will get away with doing what they want. They can mess up education and the NHS, make little difference on poverty etc - a fair proportion of the electorate will continue to vote for them regardless.

That's one way to look at it. Another would be that a fair proportion of the electorate disagree with your view that everything's a mess.

[Mr Grieves]

The 2 issues are poles apart.

The equal pay dispute in Glasgow is Labour's mess and the GMB have hardly covered themselves in glory over the years either. The teachers' dispute is a much more straightforward case of the unions standing up for their members who have seen their salaries considerably eroded over the period of austerity.

Perhaps you could point out where the attacks and open season on EIS members and officials have taken place? I can't see any with a cursory google.

So, to the actual evidence you've presented - 1 anonymous blog, disowned by the SNP, who have suspended the blogger's membership of the party. So nobody from the party leadership, or a parliamentarian or even a candidate, not a councillor or an elected official. The claim of wholesale union bashing is looking a touch thin at this point!

The actual blog in question is a bit weird. It's a personal attack on Rhea Wolfson who is a GMB official but also a prominent supported of Corbynism in Scotland, an official in Momentum, a Labour NEC member and parliamentary candidate. The blog is more an attack on Labour and their shameless using of the Glasgow women's equal pay dispute than it is on the unions. The paragraph on Hitler is ill-judged and given Rhea Wolfson's heritage, certainly offensive. However, I don't really see how it can be construed as anti-semitic given that it seems to be a condemnation of the Nazis? I also don't really see what it's doing there as it doesn't seem to make any point relevant to the rest of the article.

I do agree that the Yes movement needs trade unions on board and ideally the Labour party to see the light. I also think it would be by far the most straightforward route for Labour's rehabilitation for it to join Yes.

Spot on, sums up my thoughts and much more eloquent than my post.

[Beefster]

The reason a fair proportion of the electorate still vote for them is because across the board they are generally doing a fine job and they are the only party that ACTUALLY cares for Scotland. Only yoons like yourself with blinkers on can't see it.:agree:

You need to reread the meaning of irony tbh.

You evidently missed it but I’ve repeatedly stated on here that, as things stand and look like transpiring, I’d vote for independence at the next opportunity. But aye, yoon.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Most of the criticism (or "attacks" if you want it sound that wee bit more dramatic) I've read have been aimed at Labour for attempting to gain political capital from a crisis they are responsible for.

I would agree that anyone in the SNP criticising striking workers would be counterproductive but I don't think this is the case, bearing in mind that random bloggers and punters on twitter aren't the SNP.

As for that blog, I can't say if it's anti-semitic or not as I haven't got a clue what point he was making.

Your first para is how understood it to.

Leonard and Corbyn shamelessly and wrongly, 'backing the strikers' ina dispute their underlings created.

Shows you how unthinking many politicians support of strikes really is.

[weecounty hibby]

The 2 issues are poles apart.

The equal pay dispute in Glasgow is Labour's mess and the GMB have hardly covered themselves in glory over the years either. The teachers' dispute is a much more straightforward case of the unions standing up for their members who have seen their salaries considerably eroded over the period of austerity.

Perhaps you could point out where the attacks and open season on EIS members and officials have taken place? I can't see any with a cursory google.

So, to the actual evidence you've presented - 1 anonymous blog, disowned by the SNP, who have suspended the blogger's membership of the party. So nobody from the party leadership, or a parliamentarian or even a candidate, not a councillor or an elected official. The claim of wholesale union bashing is looking a touch thin at this point!

The actual blog in question is a bit weird. It's a personal attack on Rhea Wolfson who is a GMB official but also a prominent supported of Corbynism in Scotland, an official in Momentum, a Labour NEC member and parliamentary candidate. The blog is more an attack on Labour and their shameless using of the Glasgow women's equal pay dispute than it is on the unions. The paragraph on Hitler is ill-judged and given Rhea Wolfson's heritage, certainly offensive. However, I don't really see how it can be construed as anti-semitic given that it seems to be a condemnation of the Nazis? I also don't really see what it's doing there as it doesn't seem to make any point relevant to the rest of the article.

I do agree that the Yes movement needs trade unions on board and ideally the Labour party to see the light. I also think it would be by far the most straightforward route for Labour's rehabilitation for it to join Yes.

Great post and one I tried to type a few times earlier but kept deleting as I was much less eloquent than you. Labour and the GMB should be ashamed of themselves over the Glasgow equal pay dispute. Decades of Labour led council's and poor advice from GMB have got to this situation and they now have the cheek to say they are supporting their sisters in their action. Hypocritical in the extreme.
I also fail to see any SNP attacks on unions. One person who has been binned is hardly "the SNP"

[hibs#1]

It's possible to criticise the SNP and not be a "yoon". [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Yes,not really into politics and this is one of the main reasons, anybody that has different opinions or political leanings from yourself is automatically far game for insults.

Social media is very bad for this it is possible to disagree with someone with out resorting to petty insults.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Great post and one I tried to type a few times earlier but kept deleting as I was much less eloquent than you. Labour and the GMB should be ashamed of themselves over the Glasgow equal pay dispute. Decades of Labour led council's and poor advice from GMB have got to this situation and they now have the cheek to say they are supporting their sisters in their action. Hypocritical in the extreme.
I also fail to see any SNP attacks on unions. One person who has been binned is hardly "the SNP"



Amen to that, British Labour are a shower of charlatans and hypocrites, absolutely disgusting their actions in both equal pay and their shameful actions regarding the peoples palace in glasgow

[Peevemor]

Yes,not really into politics and this is one of the main reasons, anybody that has different opinions or political leanings from yourself is automatically far game for insults.

Social media is very bad for this it is possible to disagree with someone with out resorting to petty insults.

Shut yer puss!

[hibs#1]

Shut yer puss!

😋

[ronaldo7]

I’m Flabbergasted that some, not all, within the SNP seem to think it’s open season on Scottish trade unionists. The attacks on GMB, Unison and EIS members and their officials seems to be at odds with the SNP position of being left of centre. Surely they realise that a yes vote will only be delivered by getting organised workers onboard. Some of the attacks on the equal pay claim strikers and teachers are plain stupid. To even contemplate that these 3 unions are only taking action because they want to attack the SNP is delusional. It’s the members that vote for strike action not their elected officials.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/nicola-sturgeon-urged-to-investigate-claims-snp-members-promoted-vile-anti-semitic-blog-1-4821385

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13479/snp-and-indy-campaigners-must-avoid-rift-trade-union-movement-leading-activists-say

http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/anti-semetic-attack


Most of those women would have voted SNP, and one or two bloggers doesn't represent the relationship between the SNP and the unions.

The women of the Gmb certainly have a case, indeed they've won it in the court of the land, where they were opposed by a Labour council in Glasgow. The women deserve all that's coming to them, and more imo. Imagine British labour in Scotland, taking union members to court. What's your thoughts about that?

I fully support the EIS in representing their members in Scotland, in trying to improve their terms and conditions.

Not sure they'll get all they want, but that's what negotiations are all about.

[lucky]

A simple look on social media will point to the attacks on the trade unions by some SNP members. I agree it’s wrong that this has ever been allowed to happen. But surely it’s time to look to the now and get the equal pay claim settled regardless off if these poorly paid workers voted for independence or not.

The EIS have been getting attacked as well. As for blaming union leaders for strikes, surely these political key board warriors must know strike action can only take if members vote for it.

Have the SNP trade union group ever given support to any striking Scottish workers?

[JeMeSouviens]

So, to sum up: waffle, waffle, cybernats, mon Scottish labour :wink:

[lucky]

So, to sum up: waffle, waffle, cybernats, mon Scottish labour :wink:

I’m sure you found your post amusing but sadly it’s not, mon the anti trade union nats:wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

I’m sure you found your post amusing but sadly it’s not, mon the anti trade union nats:wink:

Not really. The whole thread is the usual wearisome Labour attempt at nat bashing based on no evidence, a bit of innuendo and a big smear.

Do you guys get instructions on this stuff?

[Beefster]

Not really. The whole thread is the usual wearisome Labour attempt at nat bashing based on no evidence, a bit of innuendo and a big smear.

Do you guys get instructions on this stuff?

That’s what politics has become everywhere. Every party/movement is basically an echo chamber designed to spread bull**** and make their opponents look bad. It used to just be the politicians who did it but not any longer unfortunately.

[Hibrandenburg]

That’s what politics has become everywhere. Every party/movement is basically an echo chamber designed to spread bull**** and make their opponents look bad. It used to just be the politicians who did it but not any longer unfortunately.

Society in general. It used to be that you had to actually do something positive to set yourself above average, now all you have to do is blacken the image of others to achieve the same.

[JeMeSouviens]

That’s what politics has become everywhere. Every party/movement is basically an echo chamber designed to spread bull**** and make their opponents look bad. It used to just be the politicians who did it but not any longer unfortunately.

Yep, I guess so. Plus people quite happy to pass on stuff they must know is rubbish that's then picked up and amplified by people who genuinely can't work out that it's rubbish. Ho hum.

[ronaldo7]

I’m sure you found your post amusing but sadly it’s not, mon the anti trade union nats:wink:

:faf::faf::faf:

It didn't take long for your mask to slip. Brother Bain would be impressed.

[lucky]

:faf::faf::faf:

It didn't take long for your mask to slip. Brother Bain would be impressed.

Brother Bain?

I see the Scottish Government are being accused by the EIS of sending misleading information to teachers and interfering in their referendum and undermining its democracy.

[Moulin Yarns]

Brother Bain?

I see the Scottish Government are being accused by the EIS of sending misleading information to teachers and interfering in their referendum and undermining its democracy.

The Scottish Government AND COSLA joint letter explaining the offer of a minimum 3% pay rise.

I worked in local government for the last 30 years and had to accept pay freeze and 1% 'rises' for the past 10 years, how any Union could possible think there would suddenly be money to offer 10% in a single year is folly? Yes, teachers and other local authority workers are worth more, but where is the money coming from?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The Scottish Government AND COSLA joint letter explaining the offer of a minimum 3% pay rise.

I worked in local government for the last 30 years and had to accept pay freeze and 1% 'rises' for the past 10 years, how any Union could possible think there would suddenly be money to offer 10% in a single year is folly? Yes, teachers and other local authority workers are worth more, but where is the money coming from?

The more powers and money that the SG control, the more they realise that governing is hard and inevitably means pissing people off at times.

The current govt have done a good job so far of being for all good things and against all bad things. Its issues like this that start to chip away at that.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Scottish Government AND COSLA joint letter explaining the offer of a minimum 3% pay rise.

I worked in local government for the last 30 years and had to accept pay freeze and 1% 'rises' for the past 10 years, how any Union could possible think there would suddenly be money to offer 10% in a single year is folly? Yes, teachers and other local authority workers are worth more, but where is the money coming from?

Where the money is coming from is not the point. Teachers' (and public sector workers in general) have put up with erosion of their salaries for years. Their union are well within their rights to point this out and how much of a rise they would need to rectify the situation. Of course they may have to settle for less but they would failing their members if they didn't push it as hard as they can.

[ronaldo7]

Brother Bain?

I see the Scottish Government are being accused by the EIS of sending misleading information to teachers and interfering in their referendum and undermining its democracy.

You forgot, cosla. ✌

Peace brother.