The Tynecastle Conundrum

[Pretty Boy]

Now that today is out the way we can really start to look forward to Wednesday. Understandably after today’s result, performance and injuries hopes have been raised somewhat. I would urge a bit of caution, we often work ourselves into a frenzy before an away derby only to fall short and there’s a huge reaction that can get out of hand. Of course we should be looking forward to having a shot at them and I absolutely don’t want to suggest we go in with a negative mindset.

I think it’s accepted Hearts at Tynecastle are a different team than that which plays away from home. That applies to derbies in recent years as well, the form guide suggests an away win is pretty unlikely. I think there are a few reasons for this. I have played at Tynecastle and it’s very claustrophobic, the rake of the stands makes them feel as though they are closing in on you and it can feel like they are growing over the ground. This can make it feel like there’s less space to play and pressure is closer than it really is. That ties in with the pitch; whilst Hearts fans may laugh it off as an excuse I don’t think there is any doubt the unique dimensions of the pitch at Tynecastle give them a huge advantage. Hearts are very effective at pressing the ball, hunting in packs and closing down space. You saw today how Celtic, once they got to grips with the game, moved the ball from side to side, played with patience, dragged Hearts about and eventually exploited the space that created. With better finishing and but for some last ditch defending and good goalkeeping it could have been 5 or 6 today. Similarly we achieved similar v Hamilton a couple of weeks back; they tried to pack the middle of the park and our ability to move the ball wide then bounce it off Kamberi up front back to runners dragged them about and created acres of space and we were ruthless at capitalising on that. At Tynecastle last season we tried to play in a similar way with a bit patience but all of the above conspired to make it pretty ineffective. As such we tend to get dragged down to going long too often which is easy money for their back line. Too often we have failed to even land a glove on them there.

The question is how do you solve that? It’s hard to get the ball down and play because the tight park makes all the things Hearts are good at easier but playing long and direct plays into their hands as well. Almost every manager in the league has tried to solve the riddle and most have come up short over the last couple of seasons. For me I think our wide players are vital. That Mitchell, who I think is decent, looked lost today and the Hearts fans on Kickback are tearing into his recent performances. Is it as simple as getting the ball to the wide guys and running at? A strong holding midfielder(s) to win the battle?

I’m looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. I just hope we do ourselves justice there this time and hopefully Neil Lennon is the man to solve the problem.

[B.H.F.C]

I think we need to pick a team that can be flexible and change shape if need be because I’m not sure how they will set up.

If they set up similar to today all the space is out wide so I’d be thinking about Horgan and Boyle either side of Kamberi. You could quite easily change to a midfield diamond (which we played against Hamilton the other week) if need be.

That said, tactics and formations can be over rated at times. Above all I just want us to go there and have a proper go. We often struggle for goals at Tynecastle, never mind results. Whatever way we set up we just need to be on the front foot. I think in recent games there we’ve been guilty of getting drawn in to the battle a bit too much and forgotten about the ball.

[Crab apple]

Now that today is out the way we can really start to look forward to Wednesday. Understandably after today’s result, performance and injuries hopes have been raised somewhat. I would urge a bit of caution, we often work ourselves into a frenzy before an away derby only to fall short and there’s a huge reaction that can get out of hand. Of course we should be looking forward to having a shot at them and I absolutely don’t want to suggest we go in with a negative mindset.

I think it’s accepted Hearts at Tynecastle are a different team than that which plays away from home. That applies to derbies in recent years as well, the form guide suggests an away win is pretty unlikely. I think there are a few reasons for this. I have played at Tynecastle and it’s very claustrophobic, the rake of the stands makes them feel as though they are closing in on you and it can feel like they are growing over the ground. This can make it feel like there’s less space to play and pressure is closer than it really is. That ties in with the pitch; whilst Hearts fans may laugh it off as an excuse I don’t think there is any doubt the unique dimensions of the pitch at Tynecastle give them a huge advantage. Hearts are very effective at pressing the ball, hunting in packs and closing down space. You saw today how Celtic, once they got to grips with the game, moved the ball from side to side, played with patience, dragged Hearts about and eventually exploited the space that created. With better finishing and but for some last ditch defending and good goalkeeping it could have been 5 or 6 today. Similarly we achieved similar v Hamilton a couple of weeks back; they tried to pack the middle of the park and our ability to move the ball wide then bounce it off Kamberi up front back to runners dragged them about and created acres of space and we were ruthless at capitalising on that. At Tynecastle last season we tried to play in a similar way with a bit patience but all of the above conspired to make it pretty ineffective. As such we tend to get dragged down to going long too often which is easy money for their back line. Too often we have failed to even land a glove on them there.

The question is how do you solve that? It’s hard to get the ball down and play because the tight park makes all the things Hearts are good at easier but playing long and direct plays into their hands as well. Almost every manager in the league has tried to solve the riddle and most have come up short over the last couple of seasons. For me I think our wide players are vital. That Mitchell, who I think is decent, looked lost today and the Hearts fans on Kickback are tearing into his recent performances. Is it as simple as getting the ball to the wide guys and running at? A strong holding midfielder(s) to win the battle?

I’m looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. I just hope we do ourselves justice there this time and hopefully Neil Lennon is the man to solve the problem.

'
I don’t think there is any doubt the unique dimensions of the pitch at Tynecastle give them a huge advantage.
For me I think our wide players are vital.' Go figure!

[BILLYHIBS]

Attack! Attack! Attack!Attack!Attack!


Lets see what they are made of. They are there to be taken. No way will that bunch of no marks be able to handle Flo Boyle and Jamie MAC.


Lets play a high pressing game and get right in their faces they look knackered


The only problem is they can play a fresh new eleven and expect to see Ratboy Naismith


Lets go for the jugular after all it’s Halloween :turnevil::turnevil::turnevil:

[Smartie]

It's a tough one to balance. You need to play your own game but you still have to be mindful of their "attributes".

We need to have enough size and organisation to defend set pieces, and we need enough to pose a similar threat to them as chances in these games are normally at a premium.

The thing is, the battle is part of it but there is also football to be played. We've got footballers that I am confident can cause them a lot of problems.

If Agyepong was fit I'd play him and Boyle wide, with Horgan through the middle just off Kamberi. Hearts looked petrified when the quick Celtc players ran at them during the second half. I'd be keen to see us put them on the back foot in exactly the same way.

I'd possibly not start Mallan - not sure if this is the game for him. Bartley and Milligan can battle in midfield leaving the 4 I mentioned as our attacking force.

We need David Gray to be fit - he's huge for us at both ends.

[Tug Wilson]

I think that Horgan could be vital in this game. His ability to play wide and use his pace allied to his threat to cut inside and do damage will give the Hearts fullback a torrid time.

Milligan v Naismith was probably the deciding contest in the game but that looks unlikely now.

It will be interesting tactically as Lennon will have been planning for Haring and Naismith playing but might have to 2nd guess their team for Wed.

It will be fascinating.

[H18 SFR]

I think that Horgan could be vital in this game. His ability to play wide and use his pace allied to his threat to cut inside and do damage will give the Hearts fullback a torrid time.

Milligan v Naismith was probably the deciding contest in the game but that looks unlikely now.

It will be interesting tactically as Lennon will have been planning for Haring and Naismith playing but might have to 2nd guess their team for Wed.

It will be fascinating.

It should be fascinating, but knowing derbies, especially at Tynecastle and especially, especially with Levein thrown in, it will be a stop-start mess.

[B.H.F.C]

It's a tough one to balance. You need to play your own game but you still have to be mindful of their "attributes".

We need to have enough size and organisation to defend set pieces, and we need enough to pose a similar threat to them as chances in these games are normally at a premium.

The thing is, the battle is part of it but there is also football to be played. We've got footballers that I am confident can cause them a lot of problems.

If Agyepong was fit I'd play him and Boyle wide, with Horgan through the middle just off Kamberi. Hearts looked petrified when the quick Celtc players ran at them during the second half. I'd be keen to see us put them on the back foot in exactly the same way.

I'd possibly not start Mallan - not sure if this is the game for him. Bartley and Milligan can battle in midfield leaving the 4 I mentioned as our attacking force.

We need David Gray to be fit - he's huge for us at both ends.

Think it’d be crazy not to start Mallan. I wouldn’t be totally against playing both Milligan and Bartley. Mallan has to be in the team though, he’s arguably our biggest goal threat.

Agree on Gray, we need him in the team.

[Billy Whizz]

Can see Hearts going 451 for this one with all the injuries they have.

Wonder if we’ll match this up for 1st 60 mins or so

[Pretty Boy]

Can see Hearts going 451 for this one with all the injuries they have.

Wonder if we’ll match this up for 1st 60 mins or so

I’d assume that would be with McLean up top?

Again only going by the Kickback comments they don’t seem to think he is capable of playing as a lone striker.

[Smartie]

Think it’d be crazy not to start Mallan. I wouldn’t be totally against playing both Milligan and Bartley. Mallan has to be in the team though, he’s arguably our biggest goal threat.

Agree on Gray, we need him in the team.

You're probably right about Mallan. I think set pieces will be huge in this match and I was thinking more about what Milligan and Bartley could do defensively without thinking much about the fact that we have the best set piece deliverer in both squads.

[PatHead]

Can see Hearts going 451 for this one with all the injuries they have.

Wonder if we’ll match this up for 1st 60 mins or so

Looks more like a 4-6-0 for me. 😀

[Keith_M]

I’d assume that would be with McLean up top?

Again only going by the Kickback comments they don’t seem to think he is capable of playing as a lone striker.


Is Naismith out for this game?


Sorry, not really up-to-speed with their injury list.

[Billy Whizz]

Looks more like a 4-6-0 for me. 😀

If they don’t play McLean it will be 4-6-0, but can’t see Hearts fans accepting that😄

He’ll be suspended on Saturday, so if Levein doesn’t try it on Wednesday night, he’ll go for it at Parkhead on Saturday

[Baader]

Need to get at their fullbacks. The guy Mitchell can't defend. The other guy Smith spent his afternoon today backtracking. Pace down the wings could be key.

[B.H.F.C]

You're probably right about Mallan. I think set pieces will be huge in this match and I was thinking more about what Milligan and Bartley could do defensively without thinking much about the fact that we have the best set piece deliverer in both squads.

I get what you are saying about having Bartley and Milligan as a solid base and then just letting the four in front of them get on with winning us the game. If you had the three playing off Flo then It would be Boyle, Mallan and one of Horgan/Tam for me.

[Ozyhibby]

I think there is no chance Bartley is playing.


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[B.H.F.C]

I think there is no chance Bartley is playing.


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As much as I have aid I wouldn’t be against him playing, I don’t think he will either. He seems to be well out of the picture.

[IGRIGI]

1st thing we need to do is not get dragged down to their game/level which is what their game plan was vs Celtic today and it worked for 45 minutes.

If we go one up front it's critical Kamberi get' s enough support because if he's up front isolated they will lap it up at the back.

My preference would be to go two up front and have Maclaren and Kamberi's link up play cause them issues with Mallan etc supporting.

[KDY Hibs]

Use our pace, don't over think it, win 3-1

[we are hibs]

It will be a terrible game and a battle in the middle of the park. It's rare you get an open derby at Tynie. We need to try and get the first goal. Need the midfield to be 100% committed. No pulling out of 50/50s and hiding for 10 and 15 minute during the game.

[BILLYHIBS]

Is Naismith out for this game?


Sorry, not really up-to-speed with their injury list.

Limped off today after twenty minutes with what seemed to be a knee injury- fell over with no one near him. Apparently he has done his knee twice. Not sure if long term injury or precautionary substitution . We will find out Wednesday

[GlesgaeHibby]

Need to get at their fullbacks. The guy Mitchell can't defend. The other guy Smith spent his afternoon today backtracking. Pace down the wings could be key.

Barker rinsed Smith at ER last season.

Normally I'd be clamouring for Bartley to play, and was frustrated he never played at Tynie last season. With Milligan in the team now, I don't feel we need Bartley here. I'd rather another pacey player than a sitting midfielder starting. Would like to see us go with this team

Bogdan
Gray Ambrose Porteous Stevenson
Boyle Milligan Mallan Horgan
MacLaren Kamberi

Pace on the wings, and MacLaren's intelligent runs to open up space.

[Zazu62]

Kamberi is the key if we go with him up top on his own, he needs to win headers and bring others into play.

[Austinho]

Stevie Mallan: shoot on sight.

[CMurdoch]

The massive weight that is Naismith fell of Wednesday's see-saw today. He will not play.
The 3 points are ours for the taking now and IMO we should go all out for them.

Hearts will be organised on Wednesday and will run about endlessly for the cause.
They will be dangerous at set pieces so we need to defend them with all the tall guys we play.
Other than that they have very little.

The 2nd half today was a bit like our game last week where Celtic battered us.
The difference is that we had a punchers chance and scored 2 great goals, without Naismith they had nothing.
Hopefully we do the dirty things right on Wednesday leaving our big punchers to land a few fatal scoring blows on them.
Fingers crossed that MacLaren gets a start next to Kamberi. He could be the guy to score a goal in the box during a messy game.

[CMurdoch]

Barker rinsed Smith at ER last season.

Normally I'd be clamouring for Bartley to play, and was frustrated he never played at Tynie last season. With Milligan in the team now, I don't feel we need Bartley here. I'd rather another pacey player than a sitting midfielder starting. Would like to see us go with this team

Bogdan
Gray Ambrose Porteous Stevenson
Boyle Milligan Mallan Horgan
MacLaren Kamberi

Pace on the wings, and MacLaren's intelligent runs to open up space.

I would be happy with that team

[Austinho]

What’s our own injury situation looking like? Last I heard Hanlon was a doubt, as was Gray. Agyepong too.

Don’t know if us only playing 1 game in 24 days will help or hinder. Hearts looked leggy yesterday and this will be their 3rd game in a week. Difficult one to call as Rangers break and our chaotic fixture list didn’t do them any favours in the 2016 final.

[Greentinted]

Hearts will play an even tighter version of how they set up today. Contain and counter (translated: niggle, harry, hack and break up play) which works for them on the bus-shelter’s narrow strip of a back-green.
The surface at Tynie is much improved tbf which could be the factor in Hibs prevailing as I believe we have more football about us. Agree with the posters touting Horgan as a potential match winner as well as Boyle and perhaps, at some point, Agyepong. Our pace, with the calming influence of Milligan will be key as will a desire to win and not to merely avoid defeat.
We’re well overdue a win over-by and they, after today’s (ultimately futile) exertions will be missing some confidence and more importantly a few key players (fwiw I can’t see Naismith declaring himself fit if he’s in any doubt...he’s a lot of things but he’s canny enough not to risk any further injury). In this vein it would be sinful not to have a few early cracks from distance at their goalkeeper - step up Mr Mallan!
For me, the only player they have that I would have in our team is Mitchell and while he needs to be robustly policed going forward, he’s weak at the back and exploiting this could reap rewards.
Not normally confident going into a derby at their place but this time I’ll say we’ll take a 3-0 win away from Gorgie.

[SirDavidsNapper]

I hope we've had the full squad training in the barn over the last week. Will set them up for playing on an even tighter pitch on Wednesday

[PatHead]

The big surprise for me was how their heads went down. The central defenders and goalie kept going but the rest went into hiding mode.

[Bill Milne]

Limped off today after twenty minutes with what seemed to be a knee injury- fell over with no one near him. Apparently he has done his knee twice. Not sure if long term injury or precautionary substitution . We will find out Wednesday

Heard Potter saying that he will not play on Wednesday. I don't know if that is normal Harry Potter b*ll**** but it does seem to be a recurring injury for Naismith. It was certainly clear from yesterday that he is vital to how the Yams play and they are not the same team without him!!

[Geo_1875]

Heard Potter saying that he will not play on Wednesday. I don't know if that is normal Harry Potter b*ll**** but it does seem to be a recurring injury for Naismith. It was certainly clear from yesterday that he is vital to how the Yams play and they are not the same team without him!!

I won't believe he's out until the teams kick off in Wednesday.

[BILLYHIBS]

Heard Potter saying that he will not play on Wednesday. I don't know if that is normal Harry Potter b*ll**** but it does seem to be a recurring injury for Naismith. It was certainly clear from yesterday that he is vital to how the Yams play and they are not the same team without him!!

Hope Potter speaks the truth this time but not the first time one of their injured heroes has made a miraculous recovery from injury to face us but hope no! :greengrin

[O'Rourke3]

Naismith is still on loan so not directly emoyed by Hearts. If it's up to him to declare fitness or readiness I'd lean on caution. There's at leat 2 other derbies this season versus potentially being out for all of them by playing too soon too eagerly.
And its still Levein so anything will happen.
My money on a world first 5 5 0 with defenders 2->11 and Zlamal coming up for corners

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[RossScott1991]

Is there any update on our own injuries? I feel we could do with Gray and Hanlon being available. I hope we aren't forced into playing Ambrose at right back, hes best at centre defence.

[Jamesie]

Got a feeling we'll be two up within half an hour, just a hunch I have

[matty_f]

I think the biggest issue we have when we go to the PBS in derbies is that we change from what we're good at and set up for a derby. Stubbs probably bucked that trend and our best recent derby performances came under him (at the PBS). Even then, the results weren't great.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Potter will throw everything at this game … if nothing else he is a coach who thinks negatively, he would call it pragmatism, and he will be pretty certain that their chances of getting anything at Celtic park on Saturday are slim to none. His best chance of getting 3 points out of the next 6 is clearly against us and he will ensure his players put every ounce of energy into Wednesday and take his chances with what that leaves him with for the weekend.

Hertz will be looking to turn this into a battle, especially if Naismith is out because that practically reduces their goal threat by 50% or more. I cant see where our options lie apart from to do our best to play with width …. Boyle likes room to run into and that will be at a premium, but from what I've seen of Agyepong he has more trickery about him than Boyle does and that might make a difference on that pitch, I would certainly hope he is on the bench at least.

As has been said, Hibs like to move the ball from side to side looking for openings, but for it to be effective here we will have to do that as quickly as we have all season. Hearts will almost certainly play 4 5 1 in an attempt to strangle the out ball wide at birth.

The one real positive in our favour is that with Mallan in the team we have a threat from the middle of the park which we have rarely carried in derby matches over the last few years, so Hertz cant just concentrate on stopping us going wide .. that's one area where the small pitch will help us, because the likes of Mallan wont have to be that far past the half way line before he is in range for a shot :greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

Right guys every time the ball gets played back to Zibi Zlamal the whole HIBS end goes “ Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I know Shan tactics but will wynd up the Hearts support and unnerve Zibi that’s if he plays as they have another three goalies they can select 😁

[SirDavidsNapper]

Mallan should just ping shots at Zibi and see how his nerves are. Shoot on sight

[Juniper Greens]

Hadn't realised they are at parkhead at the weekend. If we take 6 points this week, then there is a good chance we will be 2 off top, with a game in hand!

[NZ Green]

I think Mallan will be important, if he doesn't score he'll at least force a corner.

[R'Albin]

It's a tough one to balance. You need to play your own game but you still have to be mindful of their "attributes".

We need to have enough size and organisation to defend set pieces, and we need enough to pose a similar threat to them as chances in these games are normally at a premium.

The thing is, the battle is part of it but there is also football to be played. We've got footballers that I am confident can cause them a lot of problems.

If Agyepong was fit I'd play him and Boyle wide, with Horgan through the middle just off Kamberi. Hearts looked petrified when the quick Celtc players ran at them during the second half. I'd be keen to see us put them on the back foot in exactly the same way.

I'd possibly not start Mallan - not sure if this is the game for him. Bartley and Milligan can battle in midfield leaving the 4 I mentioned as our attacking force.

We need David Gray to be fit - he's huge for us at both ends.

Mallan absolutely has to start for me. Part of our issue at Tynecastle is Hearts constantly interrupting the flow of the game with their fouling. They're going to be reluctant to give away freekicks in their defensive third when we've got somebody as good as Mallan is with a dead ball. Less freekicks means we can actually get a bit of rhythm going - Stubbs cleverly did that by taking quick freekicks in the 2-2 game and we were excellent that day.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It is a genuine conundrum, and im personallly torn between the bartley, three centre halves physical approach, or actually accentuating the contrasts and going for Hyndman, Horgan etc.

Fwiw, i think lenny will go for the latter option, rightly or wrongly.