Electric vehicles, any experience of them

[Moulin Yarns]

Hi folks.

I am wondering if anyone has one, and their thoughts. My better half was talking to someone from the Energy Savings Trust at the weekend and is now quite keen, the main problem I can see is the convenience of the locations of charging points. Why is there none in supermarket car parks, retail parks and hotels? That is a generalisation as I know a 5* hotel with a bank of Tesla charging points, but what about Premier Inn, for example.

[heretoday]

Hi folks.

I am wondering if anyone has one, and their thoughts. My better half was talking to someone from the Energy Savings Trust at the weekend and is now quite keen, the main problem I can see is the convenience of the locations of charging points. Why is there none in supermarket car parks, retail parks and hotels? That is a generalisation as I know a 5* hotel with a bank of Tesla charging points, but what about Premier Inn, for example.
We'll all be driving them by 2030. I'll be dead so.......enjoy!

[BroxburnHibee]

Electric taxis starting to make their way into the trade. Not sure how financially viable they are yet.

As said above we'll all be driving them within the next 20 years.

[Moulin Yarns]

Electric taxis starting to make their way into the trade. Not sure how financially viable they are yet.

As said above we'll all be driving them within the next 20 years.

I don't expect to still be driving in 2030 either, I find the government (UK) reduction in grant aid to EV purchases a bit hypocritical though when we are supposed to be reducing emissions to save the planet.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Other than a test drive in a Tesla I've never driven one, but an ex of mine was a demonstrator for electric cars for a while and drove all over the North of Scotland showing them at different open days. She was driven to despair (pardon the pun) with the lack of charging points and the inevitable delays incurred during long journeys.
Maybe OK for town driving but nowt else yet.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Hi folks.

I am wondering if anyone has one, and their thoughts. My better half was talking to someone from the Energy Savings Trust at the weekend and is now quite keen, the main problem I can see is the convenience of the locations of charging points. Why is there none in supermarket car parks, retail parks and hotels? That is a generalisation as I know a 5* hotel with a bank of Tesla charging points, but what about Premier Inn, for example.

Yes, we've just added a Leaf to our pool car fleet. Nice car to drive, and I'd certainly consider buying electric if I needed a new car at the minute. The current leaf with a 40kWh battery has a range of about 150miles. Next up is the 60kWh model which will boost range further.

I think the biggest problem at the minute is that car manufacturers cannot make the cars quick enough, not that there aren't enough chargers around. There are hundreds of rapid chargers which can charge to 80% in around 30-40 mins being added every month in the UK. However, Nissan can only produce 50,000 Leaf cars per year for the whole of Europe from Sunderland. We had to wait nearly 6 months on ours after order. Many other models have similar problems. Predictions on uptake (across Europe) are so far off being achieved based on current manufacturing capability.

In terms of locations, I'd be looking at targeting workplaces, hotels etc. before supermarkets. Typically you drive from home to the shops, which are probably fairly local, so why would you need a charge whilst getting your groceries? The motorway network is already pretty well served.

Interestingly, I was up in Orkney with work a few weeks ago with work and was surprised to see so many drivings EVs. Makes sense though, when you consider range anxiety isn't quite the same as on the mainland.

[Colr]

I’d buy one if I could have somewhere to plug it in but we’ll be waiting longer for the infrastructure than the tech.

I got a hybrid instead. Love it when its on electric although its not forlong. Really quiet!

[Wembley67]

I’d buy one if I could have somewhere to plug it in but we’ll be waiting longer for the infrastructure than the tech.

I got a hybrid instead. Love it when its on electric although its not forlong. Really quiet!

Yeah I think I may go hybrid next, my old boy has a hybrid lexus and it freaks me out a bit when it runs in electric mode, freakishly quiet 🤔

[makaveli1875]

Other than a test drive in a Tesla I've never driven one, but an ex of mine was a demonstrator for electric cars for a while and drove all over the North of Scotland showing them at different open days. She was driven to despair (pardon the pun) with the lack of charging points and the inevitable delays incurred during long journeys.
Maybe OK for town driving but nowt else yet.

How long did it take to charge compared to filling up with petrol

[Sylar]

When I'm out working in California I drive an electric car as there are charging points everywhere. I can drive into work, where there around around 300 charging points, plug it in and it's fully charged when I need to head home again. There's also a number of chargers in the accommodation I stay in, not to mention every town has numerous charging points.

Here, I'd struggle to drive one unless the available infrastructure significantly improves. I think there are around 3 charging points on our campus here, and they're all pretty newly installed (not sure if they're actually operational yet). And publicly available ones are still quite rare. Unless there's a serious drive (no pun intended) to install the infrastructure, the targets to have everyone driving one are going to be missed.

[Scouse Hibee]

Could the national grid cope with providing the power required.

[HappyAsHellas]

Whilst we will move away from fossil fuel vehicles it might not be as rapid as we think. We don't generate enough electricity for everyone to change over and building new nuclear power stations isn't exactly quick or cheap, or politically viable in some cases. Until the infrastructure is here then it will be beset with problems. A motorway service area I was at the other week had only 3 charging points for electric vehicles and 18 fuel pumps. Having said all that when I was an apprentice back in the 70's we had an electric car at work and it ran of 26 car batteries, weighed about 5 tons and could only go for about 100 yards at 5 mph, so we've come quite a way.

[JeMeSouviens]

I know 3 people who have them, 2 who are early adopter geeks and use them as small 2nd family cars for local journeys here and 1 who lives in Belgium and got an insanely big tax break on a Tesla. Other than the very expensive and impossible to get hold of Teslas, range is still the problem. The manufacturers will quote 150 miles or something, which real world probably means 100 and then you're going to leave a safety margin, so say 80. Probably viable as a town runabout but then if your mileage is low it'll be a long time until you offset the extra initial cost.

Sweden are trialling a system of charging rails built into the road so cars charge as they drive. I think that seems a much more viable long term solution than charging points everywhere.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sweden are trialling a system of charging rails built into the road so cars charge as they drive. I think that seems a much more viable long term solution than charging points everywhere.


Imagine the tram works multiplied across all of Edinburgh and Glasgow and all main cities and towns :greengrin

[Bangkok Hibby]

How long did it take to charge compared to filling up with petrol

I seem to remember her saying she regularly waited 40 minutes

[RyeSloan]

I think a lot of people forget that if you have a home charging point then you are always leaving the house with a ‘full tank’

I do quite a bit of running about but rarely do I drive more than 100 miles in one day so a 150 mile range would be absolutely fine for me and the majority of folk.

Anyway range is increasing by then year, infrastructure is increasing by the year so fast forward a decade and ICE will be well on the decline.

Tesla has changed the game and most major manufacturers who were forced to react (aided by the diesel scandal finally bribing an end to the ‘clean diesel’ nonsense) will see their huge catch up investments start to properly come on stream in 2 - 3 years with a continued ramp up from there.

The change is coming and to address an earlier point I think we are already at a good enough tipping point to remove direct subsidies.

[PeeJay]

Batteries and power to charge those batteries are the main problems long term it seems to me - the Chinese - who are the prime movers in this area - have a novel idea: they are going to build lots more coal-fired power stations to generate the electricity they need to charge the batteries on the EVs. They are looking for roughly 30% of vehicles on China's roads to be EVs by 2030 ...

From an environmental sustainability perspective, this switch to EVs will simply shift petrol fuel consumption to coal-powered electricity generation, with the resulting increase in coal production and then CO2 emissions - seems to me the emissions problem is not going away anytime soon

[norhfc]

Over here in Norway electric cars are the norm, read they where 62% of new car sales in the last year. We have had a Nissan Leaf for a year now and really pleased with it. My wife drives it to work which is about a 40 km round trip, the car can do about 200 km fully charged so no issues about charging it roadside. Her work (an oil company) provides free charging and with free passing of toll roads (can be £5 in rush hour) its an economical no brainer. There are many incentives over here to buy one, no road tax and free tolls which save you loads of money, not forgetting petrol. Its been a revelation for us, cheap to charge at home and free at her workplace.
Saying all that we do have two cars, one a petrol which we use for longer trips, its all about where your going to use it, just as a home to work car they are great. Longer trips even over here (I cant afford a tesla) are more troublesome, would recommend a Leaf for local driving.

[HappyAsHellas]

Hybrid and electric vehicles will do very little or nothing at all to bring down emissions, but it sounds good.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hybrid and electric vehicles will do very little or nothing at all to bring down emissions, but it sounds good.

You mean overall CO2 emissions? They should at least lead to cleaner air in cities from less NO2 and so on?

[JeMeSouviens]

The other thing to remember about range is that battery performance will degrade over time. So your 150 miles today might be half that in a few years.

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting article if you are looking for the cheapest motoring, electric isn't necessarily best

https://www.whatcar.com/news/petrol-diesel-hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-or-electric-which-is%20the-cheapest-to-own/n18139/?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=enews%20bulletin&utm_content=WCAR%20Enews%20bulletin%20-%2026.10.18::story1_button&utm_source=20181026

[HappyAsHellas]

That all depends on which viewpoint is taken. Until recently I drove a 43 year old MG and was stopped by one of these emission type tests the government were doing alongside the scrappage scheme. When I said cheerfully that I was driving the greenest car they had ever tested they all laughed and gave me condescending little smirks and shrugging of their shoulders. The point I made out was that a new car has a carbon footprint of approx 22 metric tons. If you renew your car every 3 years then your footprint is 7 tons a year, before you even drive the bloody thing. My car also had a similar size footprint, but taken over 40 years I was responsible for less than half a ton before driving, so which is greener? Given that the real problem is of course over population then we can only keep on churning out more and more cars in a vicious cycle. We've already decimated over 90% of the South American Atlantic forests to grow soya. Is this to feed the starving of the world I hear you ask. No - it's to make bio fuel because it's green.
Forgive me if I seem a little bit cynical on these issues, but one thing is certain, it will all end in tears, or worse.

[Colr]

Yeah I think I may go hybrid next, my old boy has a hybrid lexus and it freaks me out a bit when it runs in electric mode, freakishly quiet 🤔

Yup. I got a hybrid Lexus. Very comfy seats!!

[Colr]

Could the national grid cope with providing the power required.

Well they’ve been going for year about shifting demand to bighttime so this would help

[Colr]

Batteries and power to charge those batteries are the main problems long term it seems to me - the Chinese - who are the prime movers in this area - have a novel idea: they are going to build lots more coal-fired power stations to generate the electricity they need to charge the batteries on the EVs. They are looking for roughly 30% of vehicles on China's roads to be EVs by 2030 ...

From an environmental sustainability perspective, this switch to EVs will simply shift petrol fuel consumption to coal-powered electricity generation, with the resulting increase in coal production and then CO2 emissions - seems to me the emissions problem is not going away anytime soon

The EU are investing billions to develop European battery manufacturing.

Lickily, we are well out of that as the Tories have a stockpile of Everreadies to sort the UK.

[Colr]

Hybrid and electric vehicles will do very little or nothing at all to bring down emissions, but it sounds good.

They would sort Upper Thames Street. The funes are so thick here they make people vomit (not kidding)

[Hibrandenburg]

Until they can tow a caravan 1000km I'm not interested. Although for getting to work and back I might have a wee peek when the 2nd car is up for renewal.

[Killiehibbie]

4 charging points in the car park at my work, only ever seen 1 BMW using them.

[ano hibby]

My (round town mainly) Golf is 10 years old next year & had been thinking replacing with electric.
Few Q’s if anyone knows, much appreciated;
How does it work charging at home, plug into normal mains plug..so lead a cord out window/side of house..?
What is the electric cost of charging a car battery?
Someone mentioned above the battery deteriorates over time..any idea how many miles before this is an issue?

Thanks if you can help, cheers

[RyeSloan]

Hybrid and electric vehicles will do very little or nothing at all to bring down emissions, but it sounds good.

Simply not true.

Clearly air pollution and local emissions are reduced dramatically.

Over all carbon footprint largely depends on the carbon mix of the electricity supplied.

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green

[lord bunberry]

Simply not true.

Clearly air pollution and local emissions are reduced dramatically.

Over all carbon footprint largely depends on the carbon mix of the electricity supplied.

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green (http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green)
That’s all well and good, but if everyone on the planet switched to electric cars global warming would be accelerated. Cars aren’t really the problem, but politically they’re an easy target for western governments. Cleaner energy production is the only solution to global warming problem, but it won’t happen.
Its mostly populist policies in the west, the plastic problem is a great example, none of the plastic we use in this country ends up in the sea, but we’re bombarded with videos and adverts telling us not to use it because it’s killing the marine life.
My daughter came home from school telling me we need to use less water, no we don’t, we’ve got more water than we know what to do with in Scotland.
Rather than bombarding us with useless information, we should be trying to do what’s necessary to try and halt the problem of burning fossil fuels. It’s not a game anymore, it’s a matter of life and death for us as a species.

[RyeSloan]

That’s all well and good, but if everyone on the planet switched to electric cars global warming would be accelerated. Cars aren’t really the problem, but politically they’re an easy target for western governments. Cleaner energy production is the only solution to global warming problem, but it won’t happen.
Its mostly populist policies in the west, the plastic problem is a great example, none of the plastic we use in this country ends up in the sea, but we’re bombarded with videos and adverts telling us not to use it because it’s killing the marine life.
My daughter came home from school telling me we need to use less water, no we don’t, we’ve got more water than we know what to do with in Scotland.
Rather than bombarding us with useless information, we should be trying to do what’s necessary to try and halt the problem of burning fossil fuels. It’s not a game anymore, it’s a matter of life and death for us as a species.

I get your general point on fossil fuels and coal electricity generation is the most obvious and biggest contributor but transportation is also a big contributor in its own right.

Suggesting that because the electricity generation is not of the right kind yet in some (not all!) countries to enable the full benefit of EV’s to be felt in greenhouse gas reductions therefore mitigates the benefit of EV’s totally is incorrect.

That type of stance also ignores the direct and immediate benefit to air quality...a huge problem and mass killer in itself.

Then there is the permanent removal of the burning of refined petroleum products in the end use case and all the benefits that brings.

Sure if you replace burning petrol or diesel with burning coal to generate the electricity then you are giving up some or all of your gains but that’s not set in stone and in places like Scotland which has a high renewables mix is already not the case.

Battery technology is also developing apace reducing the reliance on rare elements like cobalt, increasing efficiency (and thus their carbon footprint) as well as the development of grid level storage to further leverage the use and deployment of renewable electricity through the grid.

Are EV’s a panacea to the issue of burning fossil fuel? Absolutely not. But they are definitely a part of what will be a multi layered solution to the problem. Simply dismissing them as ‘just as bad’ is not accurate nor reflective of the change that they can help to facilitate.

[RyeSloan]

That’s all well and good, but if everyone on the planet switched to electric cars global warming would be accelerated. Cars aren’t really the problem, but politically they’re an easy target for western governments. Cleaner energy production is the only solution to global warming problem, but it won’t happen.
Its mostly populist policies in the west, the plastic problem is a great example, none of the plastic we use in this country ends up in the sea, but we’re bombarded with videos and adverts telling us not to use it because it’s killing the marine life.
My daughter came home from school telling me we need to use less water, no we don’t, we’ve got more water than we know what to do with in Scotland.
Rather than bombarding us with useless information, we should be trying to do what’s necessary to try and halt the problem of burning fossil fuels. It’s not a game anymore, it’s a matter of life and death for us as a species.

As an aside I also challenge your statement on plastics. A huge amount of the UK’s plastic used to be shipped abroad where it undoubtedly was not fully recycled....I pretty sure a lot of that was not treated correctly and probably ended up being dumped.

China has of course recently stopped accepting a lot of the worlds plastic waste. This is no bad thing as it’s forcing governments in the west to start owing the issue directly.

So far so unprepared going by some reports (recycling stopped or reduced in some areas due to the huge backlog of waste).

The UK is probably one of the better countries in this regard but is still well short of a proper solution so I see no issue in raising awareness of the problem or demanding we take the lead in showing how the issue can be tackled. Small steps like reducing single use plastics can only be a good thing and the more the public demands companies to change their methods (McDonald’s for example have now introduced paper straws instead of plastic ones) the better. Governments are also finally starting to consider the introduction of levies on the producers with the likes of Unilever and the large multi nationals in their sights.

There appears to be many possible solutions from reduction in use to more effective localized recycling to advanced incineration.

So as per EV’s there is no silver bullet but to some degree to solve any problem you have to start somewhere so raising awareness of the issue and taking at least some initial steps to curb use is something everyone can do.

Anyway didn’t mean to pick on you in particular...it’s just I’ve read a lot recently from environmentalists and their organizations bemoaning any step as not good enough or not solving the issue and I’m finding their stance somewhat odd. A good example is the experiment to try and clean up the plastic waste in the Atlantic...derided as it didn’t address the root cause of the issue when clearly it should be taken as a small part of a wider solution rather than a solution in itself.

And I’m up late with bloody painful toothache so feeling a bit grumpy and combative tonight [emoji23][emoji24][emoji23]

[Bishop Hibee]

Back to electric cars, I live in a flat on a main street. Where am I meant to charge an electric car? My main use is the 20 minute drive to and from work. I park in the street outside my work but again, nowhere near a charging point.

Anyway, aren’t we all going to be in driverless Uber car/taxi type vehicles by 2030?

[lord bunberry]

I get your general point on fossil fuels and coal electricity generation is the most obvious and biggest contributor but transportation is also a big contributor in its own right.

Suggesting that because the electricity generation is not of the right kind yet in some (not all!) countries to enable the full benefit of EV’s to be felt in greenhouse gas reductions therefore mitigates the benefit of EV’s totally is incorrect.

That type of stance also ignores the direct and immediate benefit to air quality...a huge problem and mass killer in itself.

Then there is the permanent removal of the burning of refined petroleum products in the end use case and all the benefits that brings.

Sure if you replace burning petrol or diesel with burning coal to generate the electricity then you are giving up some or all of your gains but that’s not set in stone and in places like Scotland which has a high renewables mix is already not the case.

Battery technology is also developing apace reducing the reliance on rare elements like cobalt, increasing efficiency (and thus their carbon footprint) as well as the development of grid level storage to further leverage the use and deployment of renewable electricity through the grid.

Are EV’s a panacea to the issue of burning fossil fuel? Absolutely not. But they are definitely a part of what will be a multi layered solution to the problem. Simply dismissing them as ‘just as bad’ is not accurate nor reflective of the change that they can help to facilitate.
I agree completely with that summary. My point is that as things stand in order to generate enough power to fuel electric cars we would do more harm than the cars currently cause.
Personally as a bit of a petrol head I think electric cars will be the savour of high performance petrol cars. There will be so few of them on the road that they won’t be seen as a problem, but we’ve got a long way to go before power generation is at a stage that it becomes carbon neutral. In Scotland we have everything in our favour, but still progress is painfully slow. We should be 100% renewable by now.

[Colr]

Back to electric cars, I live in a flat on a main street. Where am I meant to charge an electric car? My main use is the 20 minute drive to and from work. I park in the street outside my work but again, nowhere near a charging point.

Anyway, aren’t we all going to be in driverless Uber car/taxi type vehicles by 2030?

This is my problem. Most of Victorian and Edwardian houses don’t have parking. We use the street but the Council shows no interest in putting charging infrastrucure in. I’ve heard of plans to attach charging points to lampposts. Might help.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Hybrid and electric vehicles will do very little or nothing at all to bring down emissions, but it sounds good.

As has already been pointed out, that is simply not true. There are two immediate benefits in terms of emissions reduction:



Zero tailpipe emissions, which improves air quality which is a massive benefit in built up & congested areas.
Lower C02 emissions than ICE vehicles. EVs require grid supplied electricity to charge them (some of which in the UK is still from dirty Coal and Gas). ICE vehicles require grid fed electricity in order to refine the crude oil, fuel burned to transport this to petrol stations, and petrol/diesel burned in our cars producing C02. Even with dirty fuels like coal and oil being used in the grid, EVs are still better for the environment.


It's also worth pointing out that renewable electricity generation was equivalent to 2/3 of Scotland's Electricity consumption in 2017. Add in Torness and Hunterston providing another big chunk of low carbon electricity in Scotland and it makes driving an EV in Scotland very green!

[speedy_gonzales]

Coal burning power plants aren't necessarily as dirty/polluting as you'd think.
Quite a few sites have very clever carbon capture going on,,,,

[GlesgaeHibby]

Coal burning power plants aren't necessarily as dirty/polluting as you'd think.
Quite a few sites have very clever carbon capture going on,,,,

Yes they are.

The problem with CCS is that it adds significant cost onto the generation to implement the technology, and then to store the captured carbon. Adding this cost onto a method of generating electricity that is already more expensive than Onshore wind is madness. CCS also doesn't totally eliminate the C02 footprint of the generation.

The dire reality of climate change is staring us in the face. We shouldn't be pissing about with technology that gets rid of most of the carbon from fossil fuel based generation. Renewables work, and are cheap, with costs continuing to fall.

[RyeSloan]

Yes they are.

The problem with CCS is that it adds significant cost onto the generation to implement the technology, and then to store the captured carbon. Adding this cost onto a method of generating electricity that is already more expensive than Onshore wind is madness. CCS also doesn't totally eliminate the C02 footprint of the generation.

The dire reality of climate change is staring us in the face. We shouldn't be pissing about with technology that gets rid of most of the carbon from fossil fuel based generation. Renewables work, and are cheap, with costs continuing to fall.

Agree with most of that.

The concept of ‘clean coal’ is even more ludicrous than ‘clean diesel’.

Why start with the dirtiest of fuels and try and clean it up when there is already many cleaner alternatives that can be developed and made more cost effective?

The proposed scale of the continued expansion of coal power globally is really quite sobering. To me it’s the most obvious area where global action could make a big and important change of direction relatively quickly.

Sadly there are still too many vested interests for that to happen.

[Hibrandenburg]

Agree with most of that.

The concept of ‘clean coal’ is even more ludicrous than ‘clean diesel’.

Why start with the dirtiest of fuels and try and clean it up when there is already many cleaner alternatives that can be developed and made more cost effective?

The proposed scale of the continued expansion of coal power globally is really quite sobering. To me it’s the most obvious area where global action could make a big and important change of direction relatively quickly.

Sadly there are still too many vested interests for that to happen.

Basically that's what the European Green parties have been telling us for decades. Nobody wanted to listen until it's too late, those who persuaded us that economic interests were of higher importance ironically won't have to live with the consequences.

[PeeJay]

The EU are investing billions to develop European battery manufacturing.



The EC intention is good, but it is hampered by the European car industry's lack of willingness to go along with it - think a major stumbling block is the inability of the industry to reach agreement on battery standards? Be interesting to see if this ever gets off the ground ...

[RyeSloan]

The EC intention is good, but it is hampered by the European car industry's lack of willingness to go along with it - think a major stumbling block is the inability of the industry to reach agreement on battery standards? Be interesting to see if this ever gets off the ground ...

Not sure where you are getting that from Peejay.

There is already a significant number of battery factories being built and there is an expectation of still more to come. LG, Samsung and soon Panasonic/Tesla are all investing in Europe capacity as well as Daimler which plans to build two Gigafactories in Germany.

There is also development of lithium mining in Austria, Czech Republic and Germany to support these factories.

As ever such things take a long time to come on stream and many £bn to develop but from what I can see things are moving forward at pace.

[PeeJay]

Not sure where you are getting that from Peejay.

There is already a significant number of battery factories being built and there is an expectation of still more to come. LG, Samsung and soon Panasonic/Tesla are all investing in Europe capacity as well as Daimler which plans to build two Gigafactories in Germany.

There is also development of lithium mining in Austria, Czech Republic and Germany to support these factories.

As ever such things take a long time to come on stream and many £bn to develop but from what I can see things are moving forward at pace.

Fair points, but I'm not yet convinced this is really going to happen in Europe (or moreover Germany) - experience with the German car industry and its "good intentions" suggests caution is best advised here ... still who knows what lies down the road -

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/15/17685634/germany-car-industry-battery-cells
https://global.handelsblatt.com/companies/chinese-battery-factory-defies-german-carmakers-941625

[RyeSloan]

Fair points, but I'm not yet convinced this is really going to happen in Europe (or moreover Germany) - experience with the German car industry and its "good intentions" suggests caution is best advised here ... still who knows what lies down the road -

https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/15/17685634/germany-car-industry-battery-cells
https://global.handelsblatt.com/companies/chinese-battery-factory-defies-german-carmakers-941625

Cheers PJ, yeah from a home grown German battery supplier view they really have let the Asian suppliers steal a march on them.

Doesn’t mean we won’t see European gigafactories I suppose, just unlikely to be European owned.

That said TerraE might get something going and the dynamics of shipping lots of fuel cells half way around the world persuade me that one way or the other we’ll see battery production in Europe using European produced battery grade lithium.

Not of too much concern to most I suppose but a small amount of my SIPP would like to see that happen [emoji12]

[JeMeSouviens]

Cheers PJ, yeah from a home grown German battery supplier view they really have let the Asian suppliers steal a march on them.

Doesn’t mean we won’t see European gigafactories I suppose, just unlikely to be European owned.

That said TerraE might get something going and the dynamics of shipping lots of fuel cells half way around the world persuade me that one way or the other we’ll see battery production in Europe using European produced battery grade lithium.

Not of too much concern to most I suppose but a small amount of my SIPP would like to see that happen [emoji12]

Ah, suddenly "RyeSloan the eco-warrior" makes sense. :wink:

[RyeSloan]

Ah, suddenly "RyeSloan the eco-warrior" makes sense. :wink:

Ha ha yeah I have my own vested interests ;-)

But to some degree I’m a futurist at heart so no surprise my investment philosophy ends up with me having quite a bit of exposure to transformative technologies and the companies that are looking to deliver that...EV’s (and the associated need for lithium), grid storage, alternative energy (anaerobic digestion and the like) to name just a few!

[Moulin Yarns]

The current :wink: problem with electric vehicles at the moment appears to be demand far outstripping supply. I've been quote 6 month lead in time from ordering to delivery.

FWIW this gives a 'real world' range for most vehicles

https://www.whatcar.com/news/what-car-real-range-which-electric-car-can-go-farthest-in-the-real-world/n18159?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=enews%20bulletin&utm_content=WCAR%20Enews%20bulletin%20-%2031.10.18::story1_button&utm_source=20181031

[GlesgaeHibby]

The current :wink: problem with electric vehicles at the moment appears to be demand far outstripping supply. I've been quote 6 month lead in time from ordering to delivery.

FWIW this gives a 'real world' range for most vehicles

https://www.whatcar.com/news/what-car-real-range-which-electric-car-can-go-farthest-in-the-real-world/n18159?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=enews%20bulletin&utm_content=WCAR%20Enews%20bulletin%20-%2031.10.18::story1_button&utm_source=20181031

Absolutely, as I've mentioned the Nissan factory at Sunderland can produce 50,000 Leaf vehicles per year for all of Europe.

The 'real world' range is an interesting read. Gives the new Leaf at 128 miles real range. Seems reasonable - took our new Leaf pool car to a meeting yesterday which was a 100 mile round trip and had about 20 miles range left when I got back.