Official HSL -The Facts About HSL Donations

[OfficialHSL]

As a result of a conversation today at lunchtime with a lifelong home and away supporter I was asked to clarify a couple of simple facts about HSL . Here we go :

1. All donations go to the Club ( apart from very small expenses for printing etc ).

2. In return we receive shares in the Club and supporters increase their ownership stake, now heading towards 17%.

3 . The shares we receive are newly issued. For the avoidance of doubt we are not buying shares from either Sir Tom Farmer or Rod Petrie.

4. The Board use these funds to buy more/pay for players and any other requirements that the Manager dictates.

5. An HSL Director will be appointed to the Hibs Board when we reach 20 %

6. All of the HSL Directors are ordinary Hibs supporters giving their time voluntarily.

7. HSL will continue to provide a vehicle to allow fans who can afford it, to provide extra funds to our Club.

What a great way to help improve our team. Join here :https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/


HSL

[hibbydad]

Come on guys lets show the yams we can raise money too by supporting HSL

[Jack]

As a result of a conversation today at lunchtime with a lifelong home and away supporter I was asked to clarify a couple of simple facts about HSL . Here we go :

1. All donations go to the Club ( apart from very small expenses for printing etc ).

2. In return we receive shares in the Club and supporters increase their ownership stake, now heading towards 17%.

3 . The shares we receive are newly issued. For the avoidance of doubt we are not buying shares from either Sir Tom Farmer or Rod Petrie.

4. The Board use these funds to buy more/pay for players and any other requirements that the Manager dictates.

5. An HSL Director will be appointed to the Hibs Board when we reach 20 %

6. All of the HSL Directors are ordinary Hibs supporters giving their time voluntarily.

7. HSL will continue to provide a vehicle to allow fans who can afford it, to provide extra funds to our Club.

What a great way to help improve our team. Join here :https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/


HSL

Hi HSL, are you going to post this elsewhere?

[Pagan Hibernia]

As a result of a conversation today at lunchtime with a lifelong home and away supporter I was asked to clarify a couple of simple facts about HSL . Here we go :

1. All donations go to the Club ( apart from very small expenses for printing etc ).

2. In return we receive shares in the Club and supporters increase their ownership stake, now heading towards 17%.

3 . The shares we receive are newly issued. For the avoidance of doubt we are not buying shares from either Sir Tom Farmer or Rod Petrie.

4. The Board use these funds to buy more/pay for players and any other requirements that the Manager dictates.

5. An HSL Director will be appointed to the Hibs Board when we reach 20 %

6. All of the HSL Directors are ordinary Hibs supporters giving their time voluntarily.

7. HSL will continue to provide a vehicle to allow fans who can afford it, to provide extra funds to our Club.

What a great way to help improve our team. Join here :https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/


HSL

Thanks for this. Can I ask how often does HSL donate to the club? Is it monthly? If so what is the average/typical monthly donation from HSL to the club (I’d like to think this is increasing all the time as more people join).
How many shares do we buy monthly?

cheers

[H18 SFR]

With us being at 17%, taking into account current levels of donations, when would you anticipate we will reach the 20% and have an HSL board member?

[Hibeewilly]

As a result of a conversation today at lunchtime with a lifelong home and away supporter I was asked to clarify a couple of simple facts about HSL . Here we go :

1. All donations go to the Club ( apart from very small expenses for printing etc ).

2. In return we receive shares in the Club and supporters increase their ownership stake, now heading towards 17%.

3 . The shares we receive are newly issued. For the avoidance of doubt we are not buying shares from either Sir Tom Farmer or Rod Petrie.

4. The Board use these funds to buy more/pay for players and any other requirements that the Manager dictates.

5. An HSL Director will be appointed to the Hibs Board when we reach 20 %

6. All of the HSL Directors are ordinary Hibs supporters giving their time voluntarily.

7. HSL will continue to provide a vehicle to allow fans who can afford it, to provide extra funds to our Club.

What a great way to help improve our team. Join here :https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/


HSL
Just to say I enjoyed our discussion yesterday and the clarification is appreciated. I have to admit I didn't realise that new shares are issued and that all of the funds (less printing costs etc) go straight to Neil Lennons player budget. I also didn't realise how far behind Hearts we are in terms of contributions but I am now more than happy to sign up to HSL. Here's hoping many more fellow Hibees sign up too and start closing the gap on our friends accross the city which is extremely important so that we remain competitive in the coming seasons

[hibbydad]

Very true Hibbywilly as things stand we are miles behind the yams

[SirDavidsNapper]

Very true Hibbywilly as things stand we are miles behind the yams

We know the reason for that though. A better comparison might be Aberdeen. Sure their fans pump a lot of money in without having had to do so to save their club. Whatever Aberdeen are doing is working. Much smaller crowds than us but blowing us out the water financially. How do we attract investment? Both Aberdeen and Hearts seem to have mystery benefactors.

[Dancehibs]

As a result of a conversation today at lunchtime with a lifelong home and away supporter I was asked to clarify a couple of simple facts about HSL . Here we go :

1. All donations go to the Club ( apart from very small expenses for printing etc ).

2. In return we receive shares in the Club and supporters increase their ownership stake, now heading towards 17%.

3 . The shares we receive are newly issued. For the avoidance of doubt we are not buying shares from either Sir Tom Farmer or Rod Petrie.

4. The Board use these funds to buy more/pay for players and any other requirements that the Manager dictates.

5. An HSL Director will be appointed to the Hibs Board when we reach 20 %

6. All of the HSL Directors are ordinary Hibs supporters giving their time voluntarily.

7. HSL will continue to provide a vehicle to allow fans who can afford it, to provide extra funds to our Club.

What a great way to help improve our team. Join here :https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate/


HSL

Re point four Rod Petrie said the funds go to the football department. Has this now changed?

[marinello59]

We know the reason for that though. A better comparison might be Aberdeen. Sure their fans pump a lot of money in without having had to do so to save their club. Whatever Aberdeen are doing is working. Much smaller crowds than us but blowing us out the water financially. How do we attract investment? Both Aberdeen and Hearts seem to have mystery benefactors.

Aberdeen’s benefactors aren’t a mystery. They have guys who have made their millions out of the oil business finally pumping money in to them.

[Austinho]

Finally got round to donating thanks to this thread.

Must be a thankless task organising HSL voluntarily, so thank you for your efforts. May I suggest getting PayPal set up on the website - having to punch in my sort code and account number when I don’t know it by memory has meant you’ve missed out on donations from me in the past. Cheers.

[WhileTheChief..]

Very true Hibbywilly as things stand we are miles behind the yams

Are we in a competition with them re fan donations? If so, we’ve already lost I’m afriad!

[PatHead]

We know the reason for that though. A better comparison might be Aberdeen. Sure their fans pump a lot of money in without having had to do so to save their club. Whatever Aberdeen are doing is working. Much smaller crowds than us but blowing us out the water financially. How do we attract investment? Both Aberdeen and Hearts seem to have mystery benefactors.

The Aberdeen scheme is very different in that you get vouchers and discounts. Nothing like all of the income goes to the team.

It is more of a membership scheme and, according to an Aberdeen supporter I know, has played havoc with the loyalty points scheme.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Re point four Rod Petrie said the funds go to the football department. Has this now changed?

I’m not sure I see the difference between point 4 and your point?

[Hiber-nation]

I’m not sure I see the difference between point 4 and your point?

I was wondering this as well. If it's something the manager dictates then surely that is the football department?

[basehibby]

Very true Hibbywilly as things stand we are miles behind the yams

But do the Yams not have to pay back Budge and pay off their stand debt?

I appreciate that they've probably got more fan contributions coming in (it was life or death for them to pitch in afterall), but they are starting from way back surely - even if we still have some of an interest free debt to pay back to STF.

I may be wrong but by my reckoning, if they'd not had some generous donations from un-named benefactors in addition to their fan contributions they'd be toiling to buy a road sweeper from Cowdenbeath. And that's without the broom.

[Bostonhibby]

But do the Yams not have to pay back Budge and pay off their stand debt?

I appreciate that they've probably got more fan contributions coming in (it was life or death for them to pitch in afterall), but they are starting from way back surely - even if we still have some of an interest free debt to pay back to STF.

I may be wrong but by my reckoning, if they'd not had some generous donations from un-named benefactors in addition to their fan contributions they'd be toiling to buy a road sweeper from Cowdenbeath. And that's without the broom.Yes they do have to pay it all back. FOH was set up for the sole purpose of buying their club. There's been a few deflections from that ambition along the way.

It's not how much cash you have, it's what you do with it......

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[basehibby]

Yes they do have to pay it all back. FOH was set up for the sole purpose of buying their club. There's been a few deflections from that ambition along the way.

It's not how much cash you have, it's what you do with it......

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk


That's what I thought and it's good to know that they remain in our shadow fiscally.

ZERO excuse for Hibees not to contribute to HSL though - as long as they are contributing more than we are they will inevitably be catching up (and we don't want that).

[Hibs4185]

I Haven’t contributed to HSL, but I am happy to do direct debit to help the club I love. If it was individual share holdings, I like the idea of owning shares in hibs but although I’d be a shareholder in HSL I don’t think that appeals for some bizarre reason.

What would appeal to me is a fund to pay STF every month. We have 13600 season ticket holders. Write to everyone explaining that £3 a month direct debit would repay the loan and therefore release £40,000 a month-£10K a week, towards player budget.

Shareholdings don’t appeal to me but a direct debit of £3-£10 does

[RIP]

Question for Official HSL.


HSL is the organisation name but this isn't a name that will draw fans in. Don't we need the fund to have a 'brand' name that resonates with the wider support?
What banners and posters can we see at home games - could this be one area that would be improved with a 'brand name'?
Who runs the marketing strategy for HSL and would they be willing to run a focus group of fans with a view to a step change in fan response??


Apologies if these questions have already been discussed and addressed previously

[Just Alf]

I Haven’t contributed to HSL, but I am happy to do direct debit to help the club I love. If it was individual share holdings, I like the idea of owning shares in hibs but although I’d be a shareholder in HSL I don’t think that appeals for some bizarre reason.

What would appeal to me is a fund to pay STF every month. We have 13600 season ticket holders. Write to everyone explaining that £3 a month direct debit would repay the loan and therefore release £40,000 a month-£10K a week, towards player budget.

Shareholdings don’t appeal to me but a direct debit of £3-£10 doesIt doesn't address all of your point but I'm sure I read that HSL would simply pass on your money along with the rest and it wouldn't be used for shares if you requested it ... Ultimately I hope once all the shares are in place we can continue to use HSL for additional funding towards the football dept.


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[basehibby]

I Haven’t contributed to HSL, but I am happy to do direct debit to help the club I love. If it was individual share holdings, I like the idea of owning shares in hibs but although I’d be a shareholder in HSL I don’t think that appeals for some bizarre reason.

What would appeal to me is a fund to pay STF every month. We have 13600 season ticket holders. Write to everyone explaining that £3 a month direct debit would repay the loan and therefore release £40,000 a month-£10K a week, towards player budget.

Shareholdings don’t appeal to me but a direct debit of £3-£10 does


I do not understand your reticence.

Contributing via HSL will have EXACTLY the same end effect as you describe above - ie more money for the player budget - with the additional benefit of being part of a collective which will hold a stake in the club. What's to lose :confused:

[OfficialHSL]

Hi HSL, are you going to post this elsewhere?
Yes - The Bounce and social media.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Thanks for this. Can I ask how often does HSL donate to the club? Is it monthly? If so what is the average/typical monthly donation from HSL to the club (I’d like to think this is increasing all the time as more people join).
How many shares do we buy monthly?

cheers
Generally monthly but this can vary. Average monthly donations are around £15000 but recently this has been supplemented by some one off donations. We buy share at 4p per share.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

With us being at 17%, taking into account current levels of donations, when would you anticipate we will reach the 20% and have an HSL board member?

This is really difficult to answer. We are planning a bit of a "re launch" with a number of initiatives that have been put forward by Members. We hope this will bring many more into the fold. That being the case we could reach 20% next year.

Are main target however is 25.1 % and everyone is focussed on that more than anything.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Finally got round to donating thanks to this thread.

Must be a thankless task organising HSL voluntarily, so thank you for your efforts. May I suggest getting PayPal set up on the website - having to punch in my sort code and account number when I don’t know it by memory has meant you’ve missed out on donations from me in the past. Cheers.

Austino

Thank you for your suggestion. We previously had Paypal to receive donations from abroad but we changed this when we launched our new web site as we felt Paypal was too expensive. We now use Stripe which has all the same functionality as Paypal.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Are we in a competition with them re fan donations? If so, we’ve already lost I’m afriad!

In just over a year and a half the FOH will have completed the purchase of their Club. At that point they will have about £1.4m pa available to put at their Managers disposal. We therefore have a year and a half to decide if we want to leave our Manager behind.


HSL

[Hibeewilly]

In just over a year and a half the FOH will have completed the purchase of their Club. At that point they will have about £1.4m pa available to put at their Managers disposal. We therefore have a year and a half to decide if we want to leave our Manager behind.


HSL
That IMO is the crux of the matter...……...we have to close the gap

[lucky]

I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

[OfficialHSL]

We know the reason for that though. A better comparison might be Aberdeen. Sure their fans pump a lot of money in without having had to do so to save their club. Whatever Aberdeen are doing is working. Much smaller crowds than us but blowing us out the water financially. How do we attract investment? Both Aberdeen and Hearts seem to have mystery benefactors.

Sally

We are not sure we do know the reason for that, we can only guess.

We suspect that most, if not all, joined the FOH to provide the emergency working capital required to save them. And they did that a few years ago.

What we don't know is why 97% of their Members then voted to provide £3m to help build their new Stand. We can only guess that they just wanted to help their Club. What we can also make a reasonable guess about is that in less than 24 months time, when the purchase transaction is complete, most of those supporters will volunteer to continue providing over £1m extra to their Club.

What Aberdeen have done is to make a simple plea to their fans pointing out that FOH and HSL are providing extra money to their Club and would they like to do likewise.

Our proposition , in our view, is better than either of these, for a number of reasons so please can you encourage as many of your fellow supporters to join.

Thank you.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

Re point four Rod Petrie said the funds go to the football department. Has this now changed?

No, I think that is what we said in point 4.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

But do the Yams not have to pay back Budge and pay off their stand debt?

I appreciate that they've probably got more fan contributions coming in (it was life or death for them to pitch in afterall), but they are starting from way back surely - even if we still have some of an interest free debt to pay back to STF.

I may be wrong but by my reckoning, if they'd not had some generous donations from un-named benefactors in addition to their fan contributions they'd be toiling to buy a road sweeper from Cowdenbeath. And that's without the broom.

Not sure that's correct. Donations from FOH is by far their biggest financial support.

HSL

[H18 SFR]

I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Interesting point.

[OfficialHSL]

It doesn't address all of your point but I'm sure I read that HSL would simply pass on your money along with the rest and it wouldn't be used for shares if you requested it ... Ultimately I hope once all the shares are in place we can continue to use HSL for additional funding towards the football dept.


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If Members are happy to continue to donate then so be it.

HSL

[WhileTheChief..]

That IMO is the crux of the matter...……...we have to close the gap

Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.

[OfficialHSL]

I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

[Hibs4185]

Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.

Hearts fans had no option than to contribute to FOH as their club would have been liquidated. It was quite clear at the time that the only realistic prospect was Budge and she wanted repaid. Ian Murray MP actually says he went home one night and cried as he thought the club was gone.

I am sure if we ever found ourselves in such a situation that every supprrrer would donate every spare penny they could.

We don’t have that desperation and that’s why fans aren’t jumping on the bandwagon as much.

[basehibby]

In just over a year and a half the FOH will have completed the purchase of their Club. At that point they will have about £1.4m pa available to put at their Managers disposal. We therefore have a year and a half to decide if we want to leave our Manager behind.


HSL

That of course assumes that they don't ***** it all on busloads of journeymen in the meantime.

[Hibeewilly]

Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.
Nobody has to donate anything WTC. My understanding of the HSL approach is that if fans can afford to donate a small amount per month then great but don't if money is tight. I didn't understand the concept fully until yesterday but now I'm happy to join and help the playing budget with a small contribution each month.

[BoomtownHibees]

ZERO excuse for Hibees not to contribute to HSL though

That’s nonsense. There are multiple reasons why fans can’t/won’t donate and this type of garbage will do nothing to encourage them to do so

[WhileTheChief..]

Nobody has to donate anything WTC. My understanding of the HSL approach is that if fans can afford to donate a small amount per month then great but don't if money is tight. I didn't understand the concept fully until yesterday but now I'm happy to join and help the playing budget with a small contribution each month.

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

[basehibby]

that’s nonsense. There are multiple reasons why fans can’t/won’t donate and this type of garbage will do nothing to encourage them to do so

zero excuse

[BoomtownHibees]

zero excuse

Bollocks

[WhileTheChief..]

Some of us don’t want fan ownership.

That’s a reason I don’t contribute, not an excuse.

There are 12000+ ST holders who don’t contribute. Why do you think that is?

[Hibeewilly]

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.
Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.

[basehibby]

Some of us don’t want fan ownership.

That’s a reason I don’t contribute, not an excuse.

There are 12000+ ST holders who don’t contribute. Why do you think that is?

Cos they're too tight??? Can't work a computer?? Don't want to impinge on their pie budget?

Either way it seems they will be all too happy to see the Yams sail ahead of us in terms of purchasing power - sad.

[Bostonhibby]

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.This is pretty much where I am. I keep hearing about this gap and it's cause and effect. There was meant to be a significant and proportionate gap when Vlad was around and that ended well.

What might the good doctor want or need to do with their money next?

How does one define how far ahead the much diverted capital they have (commendably) raised since putting themselves into administration has actually put them?



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[A Hi-Bee]

I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Also thought the same, it has to be the members that vote in my humble.

That aside we need to be aware that the yam fuds will be way ahead of us in the cash stakes if we as supporters let them, we are the only ones who can get more cash into the clubs player budget.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

[Bostonhibby]

Also thought the same, it has to be the members that vote in my humble.

That aside we need to be aware that the yam fuds will be way ahead of us in the cash stakes if we as supporters let them, we are the only ones who can get more cash into the clubs player budget.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:Same here. All members were to have an equal status so maybe we should be asked how we want to do it when the time comes, or at the very least be given the opportunity to vote for or against any HSL nominations?

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[BSEJVT]

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

I am sorry to say this but that entire post is tooth fairy stuff.

There is a clear long term correlation between the amount a football club has to spend on players and their relative success on the pitch.

In the short term that can be overcome by astute management v crap management and any other number of factors, but in the long term it cannot as these temporary blips wash through. This may be what we have seen over the last 5 years and its blinded folk like you to the reality of the situation we will one day face.

When that all even out your prize money will disappear like snow of a dyke and we will fall further and further behind.

I absolutely respect your sentiment in a later post that fan ownership isn't for you and that is why you don't contribute to HSL but anything else in your above post is wishful thinking in the extreme and more than that utterly selfish.

You don't want fan ownership, truth be told after 25.1% has been achieved I am not that keen on buying more shares either.

But because you don't fancy fan ownership you put out a line that if we all thought that way there would be not be any point in Hibs continuing.

If the board, management and players thought that way we should shut the doors now

For so long as I have breath in me I will never ever ever submit to the idea that we cannot match them financially and that consequently we should be content to live in their shadow on the pitch.

It is defeatist **** and why someone would glibly accept such a fate totally baffles me.

They have a huge start on us for a number of well documented and understood reasons, but even if its 50 years from now when all those folk that donated to FOH in their hour of need are dead and gone, we will match and overtake them.

Every journey starts with a first step, in recent months HSL have taken that first step by upping their game substantially.

It is up to every Hibs supporter who can afford to and wants to do so to go on that journey with them

[Hibeewilly]

I am sorry to say this but that entire post is tooth fairy stuff.

There is a clear long term correlation between the amount a football club has to spend on players and their relative success on the pitch.

In the short term that can be overcome by astute management v crap management and any other number of factors, but in the long term it cannot as these temporary blips wash through. This may be what we have seen over the last 5 years and its blinded folk like you to the reality of the situation we will one day face.

When that all even out your prize money will disappear like snow of a dyke and we will fall further and further behind.

I absolutely respect your sentiment in a later post that fan ownership isn't for you and that is why you don't contribute to HSL but anything else in your above post is wishful thinking in the extreme and more than that utterly selfish.

You don't want fan ownership, truth be told after 25.1% has been achieved I am not that keen on buying more shares either.

But because you don't fancy fan ownership you put out a line that if we all thought that way there would be not be any point in Hibs continuing.

If the board, management and players thought that way we should shut the doors now

For so long as I have breath in me I will never ever ever submit to the idea that we cannot match them financially and that consequently we should be content to live in their shadow on the pitch.

It is defeatist **** and why someone would glibly accept such a fate totally baffles me.

They have a huge start on us for a number of well documented and understood reasons, but even if its 50 years from now when all those folk that donated to FOH in their hour of need are dead and gone, we will match and overtake them.

Every journey starts with a first step, in recent months HSL have taken that first step by upping their game substantially.

It is up to every Hibs supporter who can afford to and wants to do so to go on that journey with them
Good post :top marks

[Beefster]

Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

That makes the website saying that “supporters are the owners of HSL” and “20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club” seem a bit misleading.

How do HSL members differentiate between when “we” on the website means all the members and when it just means the HSL board? What happened to “one member, one vote”?

[CropleyWasGod]

That makes the website saying that “supporters are the owners of HSL” and “20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club” seem a bit misleading.

How do HSL members differentiate between when “we” on the website means all the members and when it just means the HSL board? What happened to “one member, one vote”?

The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yeah this is where we totally disagree.

It is not uo to the fans to raise enough cash for the club to be competitive, that’s down to the club itself.

You just have to read some of the threads on here complaining about the price of a Pie and Pint, the ticket prices for the derby or , well anything at all really.

Collectively we moan about the price of everything but at the same time some of you want us to donate cash to the same cause!

Why are we holding Hearts up as an example of how to grow financially?! Let them do their thing and we’ll do ours.

We’ll be fine. It’s not tooth fairy stuff at all.

[Skol]

I believe that as things stand I pay enough for my football and I am not prepared to pay an additional premium for it. If the club were to raise ST prices by say an equivalent of £10 per month, would they still sell the season tickets - I doubt it

I realise that Hearts fans had to pay extra to keep their club alive and credit to them. It also looks like they will continue to do so once they have hit their targets at which point they will have a financial advantage. If they want to pay more for that then thats their call

I am also not convinced about fan ownership as you could get some real incompetents in charge !

[Dancehibs]

No, I think that is what we said in point 4.


HSL

No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

[Pretty Boy]

No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

Is it the case we need clarity on what the football budget actually means?

I know there was a debate recently when it was suggested some money, it may even have been HSL money, may go towards a sport psychologist. Personally that doesn't bother me because if NL feels that is a better use of his budget than a squad player or whatever I'll believe him.

My understanding is the board will approve a budget at the start of the year and within that will be the football budget and that covers everything directly related to the playing side of the busines, the HSL money will be incorporated into that. So ultimately if that money is used for whatever reason NL, LD, George Craig et al see fit then it's being used in the correct way. By that I mean if we have a budget of £1M with £500K from ST sales etc and £500K from HSL does it matter which half the money for a piece of gym equipment comes from and which half a new striker? It all adds up to the same and the overall budget would be less (more) if whatever contributory part drops (rises).

It's simlar to hibs.net. Our PM payments and other revenue all go into one pot. In theory the server is kept switched on by the PM money but it isn't always that money directly that pays for it. However if the PM money stopped we'd have to dip into other money for that which means less for competitions, shirt sponsorships, donations to Hibs and so on. So ultimately whilst it may not be the literal PM money that pays the bill it increases the overall budget and gives us more to play with.

[Ged]

No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

It's pretty clear that the budget goes to the football department. If you want to muddy the waters that's up to you.

[04Sauzee]

This might sound daft but I'm going to run with it.

Would HSL be allowed to do a bucket collection at every home game?

Average crowds of 16k if 50% of them chucked in £1 then over 18 games we have got £144k

Obviously the above is just simple maths and only people who support fan ownership would contribute

Sounds to simple so there is probably a reason why this isn't allowed.

[A Hi-Bee]

The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.

That dont change the fact that in my humble opinion it should be one member one vote. Not the elected board voting one of their own onto the board of our football club. That in my book is not the true way of democracy.

[BSEJVT]

No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

Personally I would have said that it is important that fans are not unintentionally misled as I think that reads better, is easily understood and is what I think you are alluding to?

I am not sure what indirectly misled means? Can you clarify. Don't bother I have enough intelligence to know what was meant, as I suspect do you with the point you address.

Difference is I have chosen not to be obtuse about it or indulge in some petty point scoring exercise, which diverts us from the real aim of moving Hibs forward

That's the problem though with farting around with the semantics of the English language there's always someone able and willing to bandy words with you over something :-)

If you could enlighten us all with a detailed account of the difference between the two I am sure the missing 000's of contributors will jump on board HSL immediately.

If the monies raised are going into the football budget that's all that matters to me, we could split hairs forever and a day on what that budget is, who controls it, whether it includes the reserves / development squad or academy just to begin with.

The club's manager and executive have said on numerous occasions how much the monies raised by HSL have helped them get players they could not otherwise have afforded.

That there are so many out there desperate to nit pick and criticise over nothing sickens me, if only they would expend so much thought, energy and commitment in furthering the aims of the club we would be in a better place.

HSL is run entirely by good Hibs people giving up their time, and consequently their earning potential, to actively help the club and they are obliged to respond to trivialities like this when the time would be better spent driving HSL on.

[Ronniekirk]

Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.

Yep it's a simple concept and one I have been happy to back for some time
I simply want Qualitty Players on the Pitch ,and to me it's a. no brainier
to encourage as many fans as possible ,that can afford to , to come on Board
Together we will be Stronger
It's not about trying to get the same numbers of members as Hearts,it's about gradually growing our membership to help us stay in The Top Four and compete in Europe every Season and win Silverware
But for some reason some fans don't see this

[WhileTheChief..]

Increase the concession ticket prices.

They are way too cheap for over 65s. Pensioners nowadays are baby boomers, the wealthiest generation ever. It’s not the 70s anymore when pensioners were all skint!

Have a look around you next time you’re at ER. The majority of fans will be a concession of one kind or another.

Hospitality is full of older fans, some of who rock up in Jags and Range Rovers. Why do they get a cheap season ticket?

So bring their prices much closer to the normal ticket price and you’ll see a significant rise in turnover.

Of course that’s not going to be popular if it affects you, but it’s for the bigger cause, brother.

[Beefster]

The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.

True but not really relevant to the point I was making.

[barcahibs]

I'm a bit conflicted with HSL - in that I'm not sure I really believe in fan ownership. But I do believe we need to make some effort to financially match the hearts and Aberdeen funds. I also believe that HSL's 'heart' is in the right place.

Have to say as well that I've never understood the obsession some people seem to have with which column of a spreadsheet the money goes into?

What difference does it make whether this money goes into the football budget, the stadium budget, the transport budget, whatever? All these budgets are required to make Hibs function, what does it matter?

Money being 'ring fenced for' or 'going directly to' the managers fund doesnt mean 'extra' money does it? It just means less money will be taken from the main budget than would otherwise be the case?

I'm no accountant mind you as my bank manager would happily tell you.

[WhileTheChief..]

I simply want Qualitty Players on the Pitch ,and to me it's a. no brainier
to encourage as many fans as possible ,that can afford to , to come on Board

But for some reason some fans don't see this

Presummably you’ve got friends, family or work mates that support Hibs? Ask them why they’ve not signed up to HSL and there’s your answer.

We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!

[marinello59]

Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.

It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.

[BSEJVT]

It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.

I am not sure I necessarily agree "that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete"

If we strip out the share buying angle of HSL which some folk don't want anything to do with and I can understand why, isn't it the case that some like me advocate that if we want to do better and can and are willing to pay more that we can set our sights higher.

I am too tainted by my obvious support for HSL to be taken seriously, but I would love someone to set up a poll, purely for those that don't believe in fan ownership asking them a question along the lines of

"If there was a Managers Fund administered by HFC, where contributions made went solely into the Football Budget, would you contribute?"

IMO we need to get moving on this issue so that in addition to those who don't believe in fan ownership, when the 25.1% shareholding is reached, guys like me who wouldn't want to see it go higher have another vehicle in place we can transition over to, to continue contributing.

Perhaps someone on the Working Together Groups could take such a point to the next meeting, The fund that is, not the poll?

I want us to move forward from the days of struggling to make the top 6 which good and bad blips excepted is where we have spent most of our time since the SPL in whatever guise was formed.

Rip out the HSL money and IMO that is where we will return to

I want us to be the best of the rest and get closer and closer to the Old Firm year on year.

It is great that they aren't top of the league at this stage of the season, great for the Scottish game and all non OF supporters.

What's not so great is that it is Hearts who are.

I have spent most of my adult life watching them have the upper hand over us for long long spells, I have hugely enjoyed the last few years when they don't

If the price of trying to ensure that we don't return to the bad old days is that I need to fork out a few quid each month and try and convince others to do the same, I am up for it.

I think its at that point we disagree, could we compete with rest of the league without pitching in extra cash? IMO yes

Can we compete where we want to consistently? IMO no.

[Hibs4185]

I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net

[CropleyWasGod]

I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net

A tenner a month might be too much for some.

The site contributes to a variety of Hibs-related initiatives. To limit all of the membership cash to just the one might not be to everyone's liking.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

Presummably you’ve got friends, family or work mates that support Hibs? Ask them why they’ve not signed up to HSL and there’s your answer.

We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!

I don't need to ask as they contribute as they see the benefits on the Park Won't keep repeating myself but if those of us that do contribute stripped doing so we could start to go back to the mediocre days of Struggling to get into the Top Six never mind Top Four
I have no idesire to see that happen to my Club so will continue contributing and continue to encourage others to fro so if they can
It just saddens me when there is a thread to promote a Scheme that is proving to be beneficial to the Manager , people want to come on and discourage people joining

[Hibs4185]

A tenner a month might be too much for some.

The site contributes to a variety of Hibs-related initiatives. To limit all of the membership cash to just the one might not be to everyone's liking.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Very rough maths as I’m not sure how many members there are. If it was 8000 maybe £5 a month. Some could volunteer more per month if they could afford it.

I know some people will say just contribute to HSL and that’s true but it’s just another route to get more people involved.

[Leith's finest]

Not going to read all comments on here but a lot of people won't do direct debits via a link on phone/computer, a idea may be at games use the bookie booths that are not used at this moment to promote hsl and fill in paper forms or assist in doing it online for people that are not sure

[McD]

I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net


Good of you to commit other people’s money, when you’re not even a PM yourself. Not a penny of your own money mentioned here


theres also the same issues that have been mentioned here, some people choose not to pay money to HSL for various reasons. Which would mean setting up 2 schemes on here (based on your proposal), and asking the admin team (who already give up their own time to manage the site as it is) to maintain the funds and bookkeeping required to do that)

[Criswell]

It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.

You could argue that buying a season ticket, paying at the gate or buying merchandise is also a "charitable donation" in a way. In the end it is about supporting the club you love. If contributing to schemes like HSL can help the club progress than I am all for it.( and I do!) If you can afford it, it makes sense.

[Pagan Hibernia]

We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!

so you’re now the official spokesperson for thousands of people?

There will be many reasons; can’t afford it, never got round to it, never use a computer, still don’t know enough about it, don’t agree with it. All of which are ok in my opinion.

But to suggest that everyone who hasn’t yet donated has sat down, thought about it and decided ‘no I don’t agree with HSL on the principles of fan ownership’ etc is nonsense imo.

practically every HSL thread ultimately brings more people on board, which would seem to contradict your view in any case.

[lyonhibs]

To be honest, if there was just a fund called "The Manager's Back pocket" (or whatever 😂) that people could donate to, monthly or one off, and that was it, I think it would be more successful.

Rightly or wrongly, once things like share purchases, % ownership, seats on the board and debates on the precise definition of "footballing budget" crop up, some people (evidently a fair few, myself included) get turned off the concept.

A wee "thank you" email from the club, perhaps some token gesture around Xmas time (wouldn't actually be necessary for me personally) and a cast iron guarantee that the money would be spent on/for the benefit of the 1st team squad would be plenty.

Simplicity is what folk are after IMO.

[WhileTheChief..]

so you’re now the official spokesperson for thousands of people?

There will be many reasons; can’t afford it, never got round to it, never use a computer, still don’t know enough about it, don’t agree with it. All of which are ok in my opinion.

But to suggest that everyone who hasn’t yet donated has sat down, thought about it and decided ‘no I don’t agree with HSL on the principles of fan ownership’ etc is nonsense imo.

practically every HSL thread ultimately brings more people on board, which would seem to contradict your view in any case.

I never said any of that, stop making things up.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I never said any of that, stop making things up.

I haven’t made anything up. If you’re now distancing yourself from previous comments such as “by this stage we all know about HSL and how it works, we just don’t agree with it” (that’s paraphrasing things you’ve said on this and other threads but you get the idea) fair enough.

[Beefster]

I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net

I’m all for paying towards the upkeep of Hibs.net but £10pm would be ****ing madness. I pay less than that for services that I genuinely rely on.

That kind of subscription model would kill hibs.net imho.

[Dancehibs]

Personally I would have said that it is important that fans are not unintentionally misled as I think that reads better, is easily understood and is what I think you are alluding to?

I am not sure what indirectly misled means? Can you clarify. Don't bother I have enough intelligence to know what was meant, as I suspect do you with the point you address.

Difference is I have chosen not to be obtuse about it or indulge in some petty point scoring exercise, which diverts us from the real aim of moving Hibs forward

That's the problem though with farting around with the semantics of the English language there's always someone able and willing to bandy words with you over something :-)

If you could enlighten us all with a detailed account of the difference between the two I am sure the missing 000's of contributors will jump on board HSL immediately.

If the monies raised are going into the football budget that's all that matters to me, we could split hairs forever and a day on what that budget is, who controls it, whether it includes the reserves / development squad or academy just to begin with.

The club's manager and executive have said on numerous occasions how much the monies raised by HSL have helped them get players they could not otherwise have afforded.

That there are so many out there desperate to nit pick and criticise over nothing sickens me, if only they would expend so much thought, energy and commitment in furthering the aims of the club we would be in a better place.

HSL is run entirely by good Hibs people giving up their time, and consequently their earning potential, to actively help the club and they are obliged to respond to trivialities like this when the time would be better spent driving HSL on.

A knob ... irony must be lost on you. HSL continually confuse where the money goes. I will continually challenge their misrepresentation.

[WhileTheChief..]

Jeezo, why you trying to start an argument that isn’t there?!

I’m no spokesman for anything. Read what I said again and you’ll see that what I was getting at is that if you ask friends or family why they have not signed up that will give you an idea as to why , collectively, the majority of us haven’t.

I agree with you that there will be many reasons.

I’ve also never, ever tried to discourage anyone from signing up.

[Stuart93]

A worrying thought if FOH are able to hand their manager a £1.4m transfer kitty per year

[Pagan Hibernia]

Jeezo, why you trying to start an argument that isn’t there?!

I’m no spokesman for anything. Read what I said again and you’ll see that what I was getting at is that if you ask friends or family why they have not signed up that will give you an idea as to why , collectively, the majority of us haven’t.

I agree with you that there will be many reasons.

I’ve also never, ever tried to discourage anyone from signing up.

no bother mate.

[Dancehibs]

Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

That is incredible. Struggling to believe that’s not been plan all along. There has been a view that HSL is not a fans movement. It’s a board controlled initiative to keep the board in control. Is Dempster and Dunn still on both boards ?

Another HSL board director will become a director of Hibs without a vote.

Individual shareholders were buying more shares. Hibs Board closed that down to give HSL a free run at it.

All sounds fishy.

[matty_f]

I've long been an advocate for HSL, I see the value in having a sizeable chunk of the club safeguarded by fan ownership and I understand that doesn't mean that every decision has to be voted through by the support. For me, it secures the future of the club and makes sure we never find ourselves at the whim of a Mercer or a Romanov type.

I see the benefit of the club getting more money in, it gives us better players, a better manager, better facilities etc than we would otherwise be able to afford. This makes a Saturday afternoon (or whenever else we have to play) much more enjoyable.

It means we can pap Hearts out the cup a few years on the spin (last season excepted), improve our derby record, beat the Old Firm, have a team full of internationalists, have a youth team that wins doubles etc - it's the upward spiral that Mowbray talked about years ago. We're already seeing the benefit of some success in our home crowds rising and staying high. We're at a point where we can cut the Glasgow teams' allocation in the away end without taking a massive hit on the income from the game.

It's not a given that we'll stay competitive with Aberdeen and Hearts if we don't increase the money going into the team. Financially they both have a significant advantage over us at the moment, we are competitive just now because of good management across the club but IMHO that only gets you so far for so long.

The ideal situation for me is that we eventually match the additional income that Aberdeen and Hearts get, and let our good management become our competitive advantage so we can challenge.

The risk in not doing so is that we get left behind over the next few seasons. The strong position we find ourselves in just now is only a bad season away from being lost.

IMHO, there's a decision to be made by everyone with an interest in the club - it's a choice to make and you either see the need to help out or you don't. If we genuinely want to challenge consistently then ultimately it's in our power to make it happen. There isn't a significant difference in fan base between us, Hearts, and Aberdeen. If we engage in the same way that those supporters have with their clubs then we can go toe to toe with them for years to come.

That, as I see it, is the reality of the situation we're in - like it or not, if you want a winning team on the park then you need to support through season ticket sales and HSL etc.

There's more than one way to contribute but HSL is an easy way to do it with the added benefit of getting a say in the future of the club.

[Dancehibs]

Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?

[matty_f]

Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?

You've literally quoted a post where HSL have communicated that the articles were silent on this matter.

[marinello59]

I’m all for paying towards the upkeep of Hibs.net but £10pm would be ****ing madness. I pay less than that for services that I genuinely rely on.

That kind of subscription model would kill hibs.net imho.

And it will never happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?They just did :)

In any event, the Articles are available to anyone if they were that interested.

And Articles can be changed, if enough people want it.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

And it will never happen.

:agree:

[Dancehibs]

That makes the website saying that “supporters are the owners of HSL” and “20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club” seem a bit misleading.

How do HSL members differentiate between when “we” on the website means all the members and when it just means the HSL board? What happened to “one member, one vote”?
I suspect hibs fans have been misled.

People will judge if this has been an oversight. I wonder what lawyer firm pulled together the articles.

[matty_f]

I suspect hibs fans have been misled.

People will judge if this has been an oversight. I wonder what lawyer firm pulled together the articles.

In what way have we been misled?

I honestly think folk play dumb with this sort of stuff to try and create an issue that isn't there.

I'm hoping they're playing dumb, at least.

[StevieC]

This might sound daft but I'm going to run with it.

Would HSL be allowed to do a bucket collection at every home game?

Average crowds of 16k if 50% of them chucked in £1 then over 18 games we have got £144k

Obviously the above is just simple maths and only people who support fan ownership would contribute

Sounds to simple so there is probably a reason why this isn't allowed.

I can answer this for you, due to my involvement with Dnipro Kids ..

Viewing themselves as a community club, Hibs provide 1 turnstile collection a season for charities, many of which are based in Leith. Taking this away could have a big impact on their fundraising and ability to deliver for their charitable cause.

The success of a turnstile collection depends hugely on the number of volunteers and the number of turnstiles you can cover, and mobilising a large number of volunteers for every home game would be a very difficult task.

My guess at the financial returns for this, based on my experiences with Dnipro Kids collections (and many factors such as size of game, number of volunteers, weather, etc.) could vary from anything from £300 to £2,500 per collection .. although an average of about £1,000 might be achievable.

Is £1,000 a game worth the time and effort, and the knock on effect it would have on local charities?

[Pagan Hibernia]

I can answer this for you, due to my involvement with Dnipro Kids ..

Viewing themselves as a community club, Hibs provide 1 turnstile collection a season for charities, many of which are based in Leith. Taking this away could have a big impact on their fundraising and ability to deliver for their charitable cause.

The success of a turnstile collection depends hugely on the number of volunteers and the number of turnstiles you can cover, and mobilising a large number of volunteers for every home game would be a very difficult task.

My guess at the financial returns for this, based on my experiences with Dnipro Kids collections (and many factors such as size of game, number of volunteers, weather, etc.) could vary from anything from £300 to £2,500 per collection .. although an average of about £1,000 might be achievable.

Is £1,000 a game worth the time and effort, and the knock on effect it would have on local charities?

Definitely not.

[Dancehibs]

In what way have we been misled?

I honestly think folk play dumb with this sort of stuff to try and create an issue that isn't there.

I'm hoping they're playing dumb, at least.

I thought my posts were clear. The professional people at hibs set this up. Bruce Langholm was a founder director so HSL could be constituted. An ex chief executive at blue chip companies.

Have not catered for how and what happens when 20% holding is reached.

[StevieC]

Individual shareholders were buying more shares. Hibs Board closed that down to give HSL a free run at it.

Is that true?
When did this happen?

If I've felt a bit flush in the past I've purchased shares directly from the club, didn't realise this option was no longer available.

[Dancehibs]

Is that true?
When did this happen?

If I've felt a bit flush in the past I've purchased shares directly from the club, didn't realise this option was no longer available.

Yeah. Want to give HSL a free run. Hopefully, club open this up again

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought my posts were clear. The professional people at hibs set this up. Bruce Langholm was a founder director so HSL could be constituted. An ex chief executive at blue chip companies.

Have not catered for how and what happens when 20% holding is reached.As I say, the Articles can be changed, if enough people want it.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[StevieC]

Definitely not.

Phew, that's a relief, that would have removed nearly 15% of the Dnipro Kids annual funds.

What I would add, is that the vast majority of our funds come from supporters that pay a monthly direct debit towards the charity, with no real rewards other than they are able to see the updates that show how their contributions are affecting the lives of the orphanage children in Dnipro .. probably quite relevant in this thread. :hmmm:

[BSEJVT]

That is incredible. Struggling to believe that’s not been plan all along. There has been a view that HSL is not a fans movement. It’s a board controlled initiative to keep the board in control. Is Dempster and Dunn still on both boards ?

Another HSL board director will become a director of Hibs without a vote.

Individual shareholders were buying more shares. Hibs Board closed that down to give HSL a free run at it.

All sounds fishy.

Found any more conspiracy theories under your bed overnight?

Get a life or at least state your real agenda here.

Buy Hibs perchance?

You want to quibble about the minute details of a scheme that puts money into the football budget whilst reducing STF / RP's control over the club and once it gets to 25.1% will provide a bulwark against future takeovers.

Exactly how are Hibs or its supporters disadvantaged by any of this?

The public sale of shares was stopped because large nominee holdings were being acquired and the club didn't want this to continue and put the club in play for a hostile takeover.

In past threads you claim to know who the nominee holdings are held by and that they are all good Hibs folk. Unless you were party to those transactions there is no way you can know this.

If you don't mind I will treat that claim with the scepticism you treat all things HSL.

I don't think Hibs.Net really needs either your paranoia or fantasy island investigative journalism.

How about getting off your arse and doing something to help the club, instead of trying to sabotage it with every post you make?

[danhibees1875]

Is that true?
When did this happen?

If I've felt a bit flush in the past I've purchased shares directly from the club, didn't realise this option was no longer available.

I remember a change coming in a while ago, I think you weren't able to buy shares directly without an IFA which became prohibitively expensive. That might have only been for new shareholders, existing ones could still buy more without an IFA.

Can't remember the exact reasons or if it changed again though.

[matty_f]

I remember a change coming in a while ago, I think you weren't able to buy shares directly without an IFA which became prohibitively expensive. That might have only been for new shareholders, existing ones could still buy more without an IFA.

Can't remember the exact reasons or if it changed again though.

It was open for a while to everyone, I think the second issue removed the need for an IFA (IIRC) - I don't think there was a huge uptake of individual share purchases though.

I managed to buy some through an existing shareholder so have a very small holding myself as well as an HSL membership.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Re point four Rod Petrie said the funds go to the football department. Has this now changed?

Point 4 = Football Department

[Danderhall Hibs]

In what way have we been misled?

I honestly think folk play dumb with this sort of stuff to try and create an issue that isn't there.

I'm hoping they're playing dumb, at least.

Definitely - happens all the time. Should help answer the question around why we don’t have as big an uptake as Hearts.

[Beefster]

And it will never happen.

So you say. It’s only a matter of time before I’m having to eat old shoes and cardboard so that I can afford to post pish on hibs.net.

[Bostonhibby]

So you say. It’s only a matter of time before I’m having to eat old shoes and cardboard so that I can afford to post pish on hibs.net.[emoji4]
Have I strayed into the catering at ER thread by accident?

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[green day]

I suspect hibs fans have been misled.

People will judge if this has been an oversight. I wonder what lawyer firm pulled together the articles.

Stop it man !

You might be interested in the semantics of HSL constitution, or election of the board or whatever - but 99% of Hibbies contributing just want to pay something to the kitty - and frankly dont give a rats ass about shares / ownership etc.

Nobody has been misled......

Stop making a problem that doesnt exist - if you want to buy shares yourself, just do it the "normal" way.

If you want to contribute to HSL - just do it.

If you would prefer Hearts to get a larger transfer kitty every year, then carry on with your pish.

[MB62]

I recently saw a wee clip about the background work that goes on at ER through people sitting at computers and trying to identify players that the manager would like in his squad. I was mega impressed at the fact this even happens and the technology and time involved in it. Now if this is the sort of thing that the HSL contributions are going towards the 'managers budget' then I am 100% behind it.

I am not in favour of fan ownership, I believe it is a very dangerous path to go down. However, I do feel we need to obtain, between us all, 25.1% of the club as a minimum as I believe this is the figure required to stop our club from ever being sold from under our feet and closed down, or whatever, maybe someone more in the know can confirm this or otherwise.

I have never contributed towards HSL, personally, for whatever reason, I just felt I didn't trust them, and probably still have my doubts.

I am now though, at the stage where, I think I would like to contribute something on a monthly basis, at least until we can reach that 25.1% target, then I will see how things are at that point.

I don't do paypal or whatever that other thing was that was mentioned previously, but I would be happy to set up a direct debit to HSL.
Anyone know how I go about doing this?

[jacomo]

Very true Hibbywilly as things stand we are miles behind the yams


2 points?

[Gordy M]

I recently saw a wee clip about the background work that goes on at ER through people sitting at computers and trying to identify players that the manager would like in his squad. I was mega impressed at the fact this even happens and the technology and time involved in it. Now if this is the sort of thing that the HSL contributions are going towards the 'managers budget' then I am 100% behind it.

I am not in favour of fan ownership, I believe it is a very dangerous path to go down. However, I do feel we need to obtain, between us all, 25.1% of the club as a minimum as I believe this is the figure required to stop our club from ever being sold from under our feet and closed down, or whatever, maybe someone more in the know can confirm this or otherwise.

I have never contributed towards HSL, personally, for whatever reason, I just felt I didn't trust them, and probably still have my doubts.

I am now though, at the stage where, I think I would like to contribute something on a monthly basis, at least until we can reach that 25.1% target, then I will see how things are at that point.

I don't do paypal or whatever that other thing was that was mentioned previously, but I would be happy to set up a direct debit to HSL.
Anyone know how I go about doing this?

This is my view too. I contribute every month but im not interested in fan ownership. I do however want the fans to have enough shares to stop the club being sold to a Romanov type figure. Personally, Id like us to get to that figure, then change the scheme to a players fund or football fund or whatever, and stop buying share? Im not sure if that is the intention or not?

[Sammy7nil]

Cos they're too tight??? Can't work a computer?? Don't want to impinge on their pie budget?

Either way it seems they will be all too happy to see the Yams sail ahead of us in terms of purchasing power - sad.

Step away from the keyboard :agree:

[Golden Bear]

We're going over old ground but personally I think a scheme similar to the the Aberdeen model will have a broader appeal among our support. For what it's worth I'm another who is not in favour of fan ownership but I'd certainly be interested in something like this:-

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna/

[matty_f]

This is my view too. I contribute every month but im not interested in fan ownership. I do however want the fans to have enough shares to stop the club being sold to a Romanov type figure. Personally, Id like us to get to that figure, then change the scheme to a players fund or football fund or whatever, and stop buying share? Im not sure if that is the intention or not?

There's only a finite amount of shares to buy, HSL are buying these new shares from the club and in turn diluting the ownership of STF and Petrie.

The aim of HSL has never been to fully own the club.

I don't really get the apprehension about fan ownership - we'll continue to have a board of directors responsible for the running of the club and all that that entails, it wouldn't be mob rule.

[Gordy M]

There's only a finite amount of shares to buy, HSL are buying these new shares from the club and in turn diluting the ownership of STF and Petrie.

The aim of HSL has never been to fully own the club.

I don't really get the apprehension about fan ownership - we'll continue to have a board of directors responsible for the running of the club and all that that entails, it wouldn't be mob rule.
Yeh i get that, but id still like enough scope for a wealthy person/company to invest in the team, similar to STf. Where does the money come from if the club is owned by individual fans through HSL?

[madhibby]

I am a (modest!) contributing HSL member.

One issue I contest compared with the seemingly majority view of posters on here is that I am a firm supporter of “fan ownership” of the Club compared with the alternative of “private ownership” for whoever has the resources to purchase/own the Club.

A football club is a unique institution representing the aspiration of its fans/supporters as well as a community. The private ownership model could be seen to treat the Club like any other profit maximising private business with the owner(s) only concerned with maximising their return which could be achieved by for example selling the business to predator competitors like what nearly happened with Wallet Mercer.

A fan owned club, maybe only at 49%, would be extremely unlikely to let that happen. That Hibs have a benevolent current owner cannnot be guaranteed forever under the current non fan owned model.

Of course a governance structure would have to be set up once fan ownership is achieved to ensure the Club still operates effectively - that doesn’t seem to be too difficult to be achieved?

[offshorehibby]

Yeh i get that, but id still like enough scope for a wealthy person/company to invest in the team, similar to STf. Where does the money come from if the club is owned by individual fans through HSL?

Even if HSL/Individual share holders owned 51% of the the shares STF & RP would still be the major single share holder leaving plenty scope for individual backer to buy out STF.

[weecounty hibby]

Perhaps the reason that FOH and AberDNA are doing better than HSL is that they dont have so many people trying (very subtley) to put folk off from signing up. I honestly can't see a down side of people who can afford to putting money into Hibs through whatever means. Its like groundhog day here every time HSL is brought up. Donate or don't donate, personally I find the HSL info very clear and understand how, where, why the money raised goes

[WhileTheChief..]

Nobody is trying to put people off, we’re havin a discussion about it.

If posts on these threads were only by people who subscribe and wondering why more people don’t then you’re all basically preaching to the converted.

As has already been said, a few more people apparently sign up after these discussions so really you should be pleased no?

It’s only by engaging with those that don’t subscribe, and trying to convince them why why should, that you’ll make any progress.

[Ged]

Perhaps the reason that FOH and AberDNA are doing better than HSL is that they dont have so many people trying (very subtley) to put folk off from signing up. I honestly can't see a down side of people who can afford to putting money into Hibs through whatever means. Its like groundhog day here every time HSL is brought up. Donate or don't donate, personally I find the HSL info very clear and understand how, where, why the money raised goes

:agree:

[Gatecrasher]

At launch I initially saw HSL as a one year contribution to become a member, I'm still making payments to this day. I also make payments on behalf of my Dad who couldnt do this himself ("computer stuff") Keep up the good work guys.

[Oscar T Grouch]

There's only a finite amount of shares to buy, HSL are buying these new shares from the club and in turn diluting the ownership of STF and Petrie.

The aim of HSL has never been to fully own the club.

I don't really get the apprehension about fan ownership - we'll continue to have a board of directors responsible for the running of the club and all that that entails, it wouldn't be mob rule.

I think this is how a lot of German clubs are set up (maybe all of them?), with fans owning a slight majority of shares and a board of directors running the club with fan representation on that board. It seems to work for them, they keep the price of tickets down and make sure the clubs footballing side is invested in correctly. The BBC done a great article on the set up over there a few years ago, it seemed like the perfect system to me.

[WhileTheChief..]

The German model works because each club gets zillions from their TV deal.

We get peanuts in comparison.

Probably better comparing us to clubs from Albania or Israel, much more our level!!

[brog]

I can't believe some of the negativity & paranoia on here. Here's some of the comments & my (non expert) take on them. FWIW I've been a shareholder since Hands off Hibs days & bought more a couple of years back. I made a one off contribution to HSL when it launched & i recently started monthly payments.
1. I don't want fan ownership. This baffles me, we've always had fan ownership back to the days of the original Hibernians. Tom Hart was very much a fan owner. Hibs moving to a more modern version of fan ownership isn't about 30,000 people making decisions. It's about people having a voice to elect people to run the club in pretty much the same way every social club in Britain works.
2. HSL isn't democratic. See above, it's strange that these comments only seem to come from non HSL members. I can vote for the board at HSL who will then vote for whoever represents HSL on Hibs board. That's pretty much how democracy works, as an example I vote for an MP who then votes for their leaders. Im sure if we reach the magic number where HSL has a rep on the board then they could easily do one member, one vote. Again though, is this really a showstopper preventing people from joining HSL?
3. Hibs withdrew shares because too many fans were buying them. This wins the prize for the most paranoiac & inaccurate comment on here. I know for a fact that when Hibs launched the share issue in, IIRC, 2016, they were disappointed that the uptake wasn't higher. Why on earth would you have a share issue if you dont want people to buy shares? :confused:


There's plenty more but that's enough. I fully understand that for many reasons but probably mostly economic, some supporters can not or do not want to join HSL That's their absolute prerogative & no one should be criticised for that. However I do not understand why Hibs supporters come on here & effectively try to persuade other supporters that HSL should not be supported. I greatly admire the dedication & patience of the HSL reps who visit here & other places to explain the model & provide detailed answers to questions repeated ad nauseam. They must feel like lying down in a dark room at times. I wish them success.

[offshorehibby]

I can't believe some of the negativity & paranoia on here. Here's some of the comments & my (non expert) take on them. FWIW I've been a shareholder since Hands off Hibs days & bought more a couple of years back. I made a one off contribution to HSL when it launched & i recently started monthly payments.
1. I don't want fan ownership. This baffles me, we've always had fan ownership back to the days of the original Hibernians. Tom Hart was very much a fan owner. Hibs moving to a more modern version of fan ownership isn't about 30,000 people making decisions. It's about people having a voice to elect people to run the club in pretty much the same way every social club in Britain works.
2. HSL isn't democratic. See above, it's strange that these comments only seem to come from non HSL members. I can vote for the board at HSL who will then vote for whoever represents HSL on Hibs board. That's pretty much how democracy works, as an example I vote for an MP who then votes for their leaders. Im sure if we reach the magic number where HSL has a rep on the board then they could easily do one member, one vote. Again though, is this really a showstopper preventing people from joining HSL?
3. Hibs withdrew shares because too many fans were buying them. This wins the prize for the most paranoiac & inaccurate comment on here. I know for a fact that when Hibs launched the share issue in, IIRC, 2016, they were disappointed that the uptake wasn't higher. Why on earth would you have a share issue if you dont want people to buy shares? :confused:


There's plenty more but that's enough. I fully understand that for many reasons but probably mostly economic, some supporters can not or do not want to join HSL That's their absolute prerogative & no one should be criticised for that. However I do not understand why Hibs supporters come on here & effectively try to persuade other supporters that HSL should not be supported. I greatly admire the dedication & patience of the HSL reps who visit here & other places to explain the model & provide detailed answers to questions repeated ad nauseam. They must feel like lying down in a dark room at times. I wish them success.

:thumbsup:

[Finbar]

I recently saw a wee clip about the background work that goes on at ER through people sitting at computers and trying to identify players that the manager would like in his squad. I was mega impressed at the fact this even happens and the technology and time involved in it. Now if this is the sort of thing that the HSL contributions are going towards the 'managers budget' then I am 100% behind it.

I am not in favour of fan ownership, I believe it is a very dangerous path to go down. However, I do feel we need to obtain, between us all, 25.1% of the club as a minimum as I believe this is the figure required to stop our club from ever being sold from under our feet and closed down, or whatever, maybe someone more in the know can confirm this or otherwise.

I have never contributed towards HSL, personally, for whatever reason, I just felt I didn't trust them, and probably still have my doubts.

I am now though, at the stage where, I think I would like to contribute something on a monthly basis, at least until we can reach that 25.1% target, then I will see how things are at that point.

I don't do paypal or whatever that other thing was that was mentioned previously, but I would be happy to set up a direct debit to HSL.
Anyone know how I go about doing this?

I signed up for £10 a month a wee while ago, it was quite straightforward, easier than I expected actually. The most difficult bit was finding the website, if you google HSL you get a sofa company or something, the HSL website is actually called HibernianSupporters.co.uk.

Once you're there you sign up and donate however much you want, as far as I remember it doesn't involve paypal you just put in your bank details.

Good luck!

[green day]

I greatly admire the dedication & patience of the HSL reps who visit here & other places to explain the model & provide detailed answers to questions repeated ad nauseam. They must feel like lying down in a dark room at times. I wish them success.

:top marks

We were not on the HSL flights to Norway, but on the Thursday in the Sportspuben I sought out the HSL chap (was a bit pished, cant remember his name, sorry) and told him I was a contributor, that I thought they were doing a great job, and putting on the flight / getting us the cheap beer deal was great work.

This is the thing - they did the groundwork, spoke to the hotel / pub and got a great deal on bevvy, a good food deal on the Thursday, and this was for ALL Hibbys there, not just HSL flight guys.

Norway cost a lot, but it would have been a hell of a lot more if it wasnt for HSL.

He was quite happy to hear that feedback, but wasnt seeking it out - these guys are all volunteers and should be applauded for their efforts.

[matty_f]

Yeh i get that, but id still like enough scope for a wealthy person/company to invest in the team, similar to STf. Where does the money come from if the club is owned by individual fans through HSL?

Same place as it comes from just now, the club is self sufficient in that it uses revenue to pay the bills. HSL subs mean that less of that revenue gets directed away from the football side of the club (out probably more accurate to say that the impact of the revenue that gets directed away from the football side is reduced thanks to HSL)

[OfficialHSL]

A knob ... irony must be lost on you. HSL continually confuse where the money goes. I will continually challenge their misrepresentation.

Dancehibs

We are sorry that you feel we are continually misrepresent or confuse where the money goes. Please be assured we do not deliberately do this and have not intention whatsoever of misleading our fellow Hibs supporters.

Please help us avoid doing this again by explaining clearly where you think we can improve ?

You are right that different phrases have been used at different times by different people but as far as we can see they are all intended to convey the same message.

For the avoidance of doubt please allow us to once again clarify. Donations received from our Members are passed on tho the Club. In return the Club give us shares at the rate of 4p per share. These are newly authorised shares.

The Board of the Club from the outset have confirmed that these funds will be used to " fund our sporting ambition" viz

- fund our football ambition
- paid to the football dept
- given to the Manager
- passed to Neil
- spent on football matters
etc etc etc etc

The fans reps on the Board have confirmed that they too are satisfied that this is how our funds are used.

We are happy that our funds are not being used to fund any infrastructure projects, pay dividends, pay any income to non executive Directors etc etc

Finally, our Members are satisfied that the funds are going to where they want it to go and they are telling us that they are using their own eyes to satisfy this test, by this we mean they feel that the product on the park has improved. As you may know Leeann has on more than one occasion stated that there were players in our Scottish Cup winning squad who simply would not have been there without the additional funds donated by HSL.

Please let us know what further clarity we feel we can add. I'm sure you will appreciate that our response is not intended in any way to be critical of any of your or anyone else's comments but we are always conscious that our Members read these Forums so it is important that they know where their hard earned money is going.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

A worrying thought if FOH are able to hand their manager a £1.4m transfer kitty per year

Stuart

This is all we are trying to do, make people aware in advance of what is going on around us. We don't want to wake up one morning and find ourselves trailing behind and wonder " how did that happen " ?


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

I believe that as things stand I pay enough for my football and I am not prepared to pay an additional premium for it. If the club were to raise ST prices by say an equivalent of £10 per month, would they still sell the season tickets - I doubt it

I realise that Hearts fans had to pay extra to keep their club alive and credit to them. It also looks like they will continue to do so once they have hit their targets at which point they will have a financial advantage. If they want to pay more for that then thats their call

I am also not convinced about fan ownership as you could get some real incompetents in charge !


Skol

We do of course fully respect your choice not to want to pay more for your football, none of us want to pay more for anything than we have do.

I think however most would agree that generally speaking there is a correlation between money and quality. In the long term, for most of the time, The Clubs with the most money use the money to bring in better players and thus achieve better results by playing better football.

With this in mind, those fans who want to see a better Hibs and are happy to pay a little more money to help make this happen are choosing voluntarily to do this. That's pretty much all that is going on here.

Please remember that fan ownership is not the same as fan run. When HSL achieve a meaningful stake of 25.1% you can be certain that none of us will be picking the left back or centre forward.

The reality is not a huge amount will change, operating in the Scottish League will continue to be a challenge whether fan owned or privately owned. You still have to operate within you means. We happen to believe it is fairer to share that burden rather than have that burden resting on one individual.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

That is incredible. Struggling to believe that’s not been plan all along. There has been a view that HSL is not a fans movement. It’s a board controlled initiative to keep the board in control. Is Dempster and Dunn still on both boards ?

Another HSL board director will become a director of Hibs without a vote.

Individual shareholders were buying more shares. Hibs Board closed that down to give HSL a free run at it.

All sounds fishy.

Dancehibs

I have been involved in HSL right from the outset. We are just ordinary Hibs fans doing our best to help our Club. You don't know me personally but there are many on here that do and know me well enough to know that I would never involve myself in anything unscrupulous. The same can by said about any of my fellow Directors.

I have no issue with you having your own opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. What I would say is that such comments make life even harder for me and all the other people who are working hard to help improve our Club. I can cope with that but by saying things that you do not know to be the truth which results in turning people way from us, simply hurts our Club.

If you don't like me, that's fine. If you don't like any of the Directors, that's also fine. If you don't have the funds to contribute that's understandable. All that we ask is please allow other fans to make their choices to do what they want to help their Club.

Jim Adie
HSL

[ancient hibee]

Dancehibs

I have been involved in HSL right from the outset. We are just ordinary Hibs fans doing our best to help our Club. You don't know me personally but there are many on here that do and know me well enough to know that I would never involve myself in anything unscrupulous. The same can by said about any of my fellow Directors.

I have no issue with you having your own opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. What I would say is that such comments make life even harder for me and all the other people who are working hard to help improve our Club. I can cope with that but by saying things that you do not know to be the truth which results in turning people way from us, simply hurts our Club.

If you don't like me, that's fine. If you don't like any of the Directors, that's also fine. If you don't have the funds to contribute that's understandable. All that we ask is please allow other fans to make their choices to do what they want to help their Club.

Jim Adie
HSL


I really don't know where you get the patience.

[Ronniekirk]

I've long been an advocate for HSL, I see the value in having a sizeable chunk of the club safeguarded by fan ownership and I understand that doesn't mean that every decision has to be voted through by the support. For me, it secures the future of the club and makes sure we never find ourselves at the whim of a Mercer or a Romanov type.

I see the benefit of the club getting more money in, it gives us better players, a better manager, better facilities etc than we would otherwise be able to afford. This makes a Saturday afternoon (or whenever else we have to play) much more enjoyable.

It means we can pap Hearts out the cup a few years on the spin (last season excepted), improve our derby record, beat the Old Firm, have a team full of internationalists, have a youth team that wins doubles etc - it's the upward spiral that Mowbray talked about years ago. We're already seeing the benefit of some success in our home crowds rising and staying high. We're at a point where we can cut the Glasgow teams' allocation in the away end without taking a massive hit on the income from the game.

It's not a given that we'll stay competitive with Aberdeen and Hearts if we don't increase the money going into the team. Financially they both have a significant advantage over us at the moment, we are competitive just now because of good management across the club but IMHO that only gets you so far for so long.

The ideal situation for me is that we eventually match the additional income that Aberdeen and Hearts get, and let our good management become our competitive advantage so we can challenge.

The risk in not doing so is that we get left behind over the next few seasons. The strong position we find ourselves in just now is only a bad season away from being lost.

IMHO, there's a decision to be made by everyone with an interest in the club - it's a choice to make and you either see the need to help out or you don't. If we genuinely want to challenge consistently then ultimately it's in our power to make it happen. There isn't a significant difference in fan base between us, Hearts, and Aberdeen. If we engage in the same way that those supporters have with their clubs then we can go toe to toe with them for years to come.

That, as I see it, is the reality of the situation we're in - like it or not, if you want a winning team on the park then you need to support through season ticket sales and HSL etc.

There's more than one way to contribute but HSL is an easy way to do it with the added benefit of getting a say in the future of the club.

Excellent Post Marty , but no doubt the. Non Believers will be along to find fault with such a sensible post

[A Hi-Bee]

I can't believe some of the negativity & paranoia on here. Here's some of the comments & my (non expert) take on them. FWIW I've been a shareholder since Hands off Hibs days & bought more a couple of years back. I made a one off contribution to HSL when it launched & i recently started monthly payments.
1. I don't want fan ownership. This baffles me, we've always had fan ownership back to the days of the original Hibernians. Tom Hart was very much a fan owner. Hibs moving to a more modern version of fan ownership isn't about 30,000 people making decisions. It's about people having a voice to elect people to run the club in pretty much the same way every social club in Britain works.
2. HSL isn't democratic. See above, it's strange that these comments only seem to come from non HSL members. I can vote for the board at HSL who will then vote for whoever represents HSL on Hibs board. That's pretty much how democracy works, as an example I vote for an MP who then votes for their leaders. Im sure if we reach the magic number where HSL has a rep on the board then they could easily do one member, one vote. Again though, is this really a showstopper preventing people from joining HSL?
3. Hibs withdrew shares because too many fans were buying them. This wins the prize for the most paranoiac & inaccurate comment on here. I know for a fact that when Hibs launched the share issue in, IIRC, 2016, they were disappointed that the uptake wasn't higher. Why on earth would you have a share issue if you dont want people to buy shares? :confused:


There's plenty more but that's enough. I fully understand that for many reasons but probably mostly economic, some supporters can not or do not want to join HSL That's their absolute prerogative & no one should be criticised for that. However I do not understand why Hibs supporters come on here & effectively try to persuade other supporters that HSL should not be supported. I greatly admire the dedication & patience of the HSL reps who visit here & other places to explain the model & provide detailed answers to questions repeated ad nauseam. They must feel like lying down in a dark room at times. I wish them success.

Brog,
I don’t see how giving my humble opinion on the fact that rightly or wrongly I believe in one member one vote can be seen as being negative to HSL or trying to stop anyone from joining what is in my humble again a great way of us getting money into the club, I contribute and will continue to do as long as I can afford to.
One of my threads from a while ago resulted in around 25 new members joining up wi HSL Dont see anyone else doing the same outside of official HSL - so please refrain from thinking I am in anyway negative towards what we are trying to achieve my beleifs in the way voting is carried out stay the same.
Perhaps voting for an m.p who then votes for a leader is not the best example to use (after all look at the donkeys we have now, could also say the same about the SFA and so on, but thats just my opinion)


GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

[A Hi-Bee]

I've long been an advocate for HSL, I see the value in having a sizeable chunk of the club safeguarded by fan ownership and I understand that doesn't mean that every decision has to be voted through by the support. For me, it secures the future of the club and makes sure we never find ourselves at the whim of a Mercer or a Romanov type.

I see the benefit of the club getting more money in, it gives us better players, a better manager, better facilities etc than we would otherwise be able to afford. This makes a Saturday afternoon (or whenever else we have to play) much more enjoyable.

It means we can pap Hearts out the cup a few years on the spin (last season excepted), improve our derby record, beat the Old Firm, have a team full of internationalists, have a youth team that wins doubles etc - it's the upward spiral that Mowbray talked about years ago. We're already seeing the benefit of some success in our home crowds rising and staying high. We're at a point where we can cut the Glasgow teams' allocation in the away end without taking a massive hit on the income from the game.

It's not a given that we'll stay competitive with Aberdeen and Hearts if we don't increase the money going into the team. Financially they both have a significant advantage over us at the moment, we are competitive just now because of good management across the club but IMHO that only gets you so far for so long.

The ideal situation for me is that we eventually match the additional income that Aberdeen and Hearts get, and let our good management become our competitive advantage so we can challenge.

The risk in not doing so is that we get left behind over the next few seasons. The strong position we find ourselves in just now is only a bad season away from being lost.

IMHO, there's a decision to be made by everyone with an interest in the club - it's a choice to make and you either see the need to help out or you don't. If we genuinely want to challenge consistently then ultimately it's in our power to make it happen. There isn't a significant difference in fan base between us, Hearts, and Aberdeen. If we engage in the same way that those supporters have with their clubs then we can go toe to toe with them for years to come.

That, as I see it, is the reality of the situation we're in - like it or not, if you want a winning team on the park then you need to support through season ticket sales and HSL etc.

There's more than one way to contribute but HSL is an easy way to do it with the added benefit of getting a say in the future of the club.

Well said, been saying the same for months now, we are the only people who can effect how much our manager gets to spend on the players he wants to get onto the park, better quality takes more money.

:thumbsup:

[Dalianwanda]

Yeah this is where we totally disagree.

It is not uo to the fans to raise enough cash for the club to be competitive, that’s down to the club itself.

You just have to read some of the threads on here complaining about the price of a Pie and Pint, the ticket prices for the derby or , well anything at all really.

Collectively we moan about the price of everything but at the same time some of you want us to donate cash to the same cause!

Why are we holding Hearts up as an example of how to grow financially?! Let them do their thing and we’ll do ours.

We’ll be fine. It’s not tooth fairy stuff at all.

You have lost me here, what do you class as 'the club'? Whats the difference between those who play, those who support & those who provide the structure to support the first two?

How do we compete if we dont have the resources?

[BSEJVT]

Increase the concession ticket prices.

They are way too cheap for over 65s. Pensioners nowadays are baby boomers, the wealthiest generation ever. It’s not the 70s anymore when pensioners were all skint!

Have a look around you next time you’re at ER. The majority of fans will be a concession of one kind or another.

Hospitality is full of older fans, some of who rock up in Jags and Range Rovers. Why do they get a cheap season ticket?

So bring their prices much closer to the normal ticket price and you’ll see a significant rise in turnover.

Of course that’s not going to be popular if it affects you, but it’s for the bigger cause, brother.

So to paraphrase the above

Its okay if everybody else pitches in money to put a better team on the park that we can all enjoy, as long as it's not you?

Very public spirited

[WhileTheChief..]

Nope, I’m pretty much saying the opposite.

[Bostonhibby]

2 points?Is it okay to say plus one cup and a huge points gap since they put themselves into administration? Not to mention our superior derby record since?

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Dancehibs

I have been involved in HSL right from the outset. We are just ordinary Hibs fans doing our best to help our Club. You don't know me personally but there are many on here that do and know me well enough to know that I would never involve myself in anything unscrupulous. The same can by said about any of my fellow Directors.

I have no issue with you having your own opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. What I would say is that such comments make life even harder for me and all the other people who are working hard to help improve our Club. I can cope with that but by saying things that you do not know to be the truth which results in turning people way from us, simply hurts our Club.

If you don't like me, that's fine. If you don't like any of the Directors, that's also fine. If you don't have the funds to contribute that's understandable. All that we ask is please allow other fans to make their choices to do what they want to help their Club.

Jim Adie
HSLMight be easier to say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

You have lost me here, what do you class as 'the club'? Whats the difference between those who play, those who support & those who provide the structure to support the first two?

How do we compete if we dont have the resources?

Things like improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

I guess my main point through all this, although perhaps poorly made, is that I think fans pay enough as it is through STs, walk ups, merchandise, hospitality and the likes.

We, and i include all of us here, already do our bit.

[Just Alf]

I've worked etc won a wee bet here and there, done a homer and so on and got myself 40 quid to go to the pub, I'm happy, all's good in the world etc... Along comes my wife and says here's an extra £10 off you go and enjoy your self

That extra 10 means I might have a slightly better time.

That's how I think of HSL... Hibs work within their means with all their various revenue streams and then along comes the HSL money that's handed over to the football department over and above what they'd normally get. We all might get a slightly better time!



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[brog]

Brog,
I don’t see how giving my humble opinion on the fact that rightly or wrongly I believe in one member one vote can be seen as being negative to HSL or trying to stop anyone from joining what is in my humble again a great way of us getting money into the club, I contribute and will continue to do as long as I can afford to.
One of my threads from a while ago resulted in around 25 new members joining up wi HSL Dont see anyone else doing the same outside of official HSL - so please refrain from thinking I am in anyway negative towards what we are trying to achieve my beleifs in the way voting is carried out stay the same.
Perhaps voting for an m.p who then votes for a leader is not the best example to use (after all look at the donkeys we have now, could also say the same about the SFA and so on, but thats just my opinion)


GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

No criticism of you was intended, i was merely pointing out that the present system of electing people to the HSL board is democratic in that it equates to the norm in the UK. I agree with you that the political system is considerably imperfect but then one member one vote resulted in brexit so im not sure any system is perfect.

[Eyrie]

Things like improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

I guess my main point through all this, although perhaps poorly made, is that I think fans pay enough as it is through STs, walk ups, merchandise, hospitality and the likes.

We, and i include all of us here, already do our bit.

Every club wants improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc to increase its resources.

But a club that can increase its resources relative to its direct competitors can improve its chances of improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

If Hearts can get another £1.4m per season from FOH compared to us, then they have an advantage over us in seeking those improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

HSL provides us with an opportunity to counter that advantage. If you don't want to contribute, or can't, then that is your decision, but why try to undermine its good work with claims that we don't need to do any more?

If money doesn't ultimately matter, then explain to me why the two wealthiest clubs (Celtc, Huns RIP) in Scotland have by far the most trophies.

[WhileTheChief..]

Look, I’ve never tried to put any off or anything like it.

Apologies if you read that way. I’ll leave you all in peace now!

[BSEJVT]

Every club wants improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc to increase its resources.

But a club that can increase its resources relative to its direct competitors can improve its chances of improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

If Hearts can get another £1.4m per season from FOH compared to us, then they have an advantage over us in seeking those improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

HSL provides us with an opportunity to counter that advantage. If you don't want to contribute, or can't, then that is your decision, but why try to undermine its good work with claims that we don't need to do any more?

If money doesn't ultimately matter, then explain to me why the two wealthiest clubs (Celtc, Huns RIP) in Scotland have by far the most trophies.

Nail hit firmly on head :top marks

I have no problem with folk not contributing it is a free choice.

Truth be told I think many that don't have a bit of guilt trip over it and then try to justify (NOT THAT THERE IS ANY NEED TO DO SO) that decision by making spurious assertions and claims

If its not for you ignore it but don't criticise others efforts to encourage those that may want do so or invent excuses why extra monies raised from this source are not required, its a patent nonsense to suggest this.

[Hibeewilly]

Nail hit firmly on head :top marks

I have no problem with folk not contributing it is a free choice.

Truth be told I think many that don't have a bit of guilt trip over it and then try to justify (NOT THAT THERE IS ANY NEED TO DO SO) that decision by making spurious assertions and claims

If its not for you ignore it but don't criticise others efforts to encourage those that may want do so or invent excuses why extra monies raised from this source are not required, its a patent nonsense to suggest this.
I think that sums it up BSEJVT. Absolutely every Hibernian supporters own choice. All of us whether we contribute or not are all the same. GGTTH:agree:

[RIP]

Dancehibs

I have been involved in HSL right from the outset. We are just ordinary Hibs fans doing our best to help our Club. You don't know me personally but there are many on here that do and know me well enough to know that I would never involve myself in anything unscrupulous. The same can by said about any of my fellow Directors.

I have no issue with you having your own opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. What I would say is that such comments make life even harder for me and all the other people who are working hard to help improve our Club. I can cope with that but by saying things that you do not know to be the truth which results in turning people way from us, simply hurts our Club.

If you don't like me, that's fine. If you don't like any of the Directors, that's also fine. If you don't have the funds to contribute that's understandable. All that we ask is please allow other fans to make their choices to do what they want to help their Club.

Jim Adie
HSL

Jim well done for your dedication to the club which if not fully appreciated today hopefully will be fully acknowledged in the years to come.

Having met you, Gordon Smith and Peter at a turbulent time post relegation I was struck by your sincerity and love of the Hibs. I was also very impressed by the fact that you had worked for 2 years on your fans community project before presenting it to the Board. As a business consultant and project manager I know that the best schemes are the ones that take time to design and develop.

Being a known and trusted associate of Rod at a difficult period for the chairman would have enabled you and the team to gain the trust of Sir Tom Farmer who after saving our club back in 1991,would need to be sure that trusted people were behind the new venture.

Very well done sir. You have my admiration.

GM

[Ged]

Dancehibs

We are sorry that you feel we are continually misrepresent or confuse where the money goes. Please be assured we do not deliberately do this and have not intention whatsoever of misleading our fellow Hibs supporters.

Please help us avoid doing this again by explaining clearly where you think we can improve ?

You are right that different phrases have been used at different times by different people but as far as we can see they are all intended to convey the same message.

For the avoidance of doubt please allow us to once again clarify. Donations received from our Members are passed on tho the Club. In return the Club give us shares at the rate of 4p per share. These are newly authorised shares.

The Board of the Club from the outset have confirmed that these funds will be used to " fund our sporting ambition" viz

- fund our football ambition
- paid to the football dept
- given to the Manager
- passed to Neil
- spent on football matters
etc etc etc etc

The fans reps on the Board have confirmed that they too are satisfied that this is how our funds are used.

We are happy that our funds are not being used to fund any infrastructure projects, pay dividends, pay any income to non executive Directors etc etc

Finally, our Members are satisfied that the funds are going to where they want it to go and they are telling us that they are using their own eyes to satisfy this test, by this we mean they feel that the product on the park has improved. As you may know Leeann has on more than one occasion stated that there were players in our Scottish Cup winning squad who simply would not have been there without the additional funds donated by HSL.

Please let us know what further clarity we feel we can add. I'm sure you will appreciate that our response is not intended in any way to be critical of any of your or anyone else's comments but we are always conscious that our Members read these Forums so it is important that they know where their hard earned money is going.

HSL


Dancehibs

I have been involved in HSL right from the outset. We are just ordinary Hibs fans doing our best to help our Club. You don't know me personally but there are many on here that do and know me well enough to know that I would never involve myself in anything unscrupulous. The same can by said about any of my fellow Directors.

I have no issue with you having your own opinion no matter how ill informed it may be. What I would say is that such comments make life even harder for me and all the other people who are working hard to help improve our Club. I can cope with that but by saying things that you do not know to be the truth which results in turning people way from us, simply hurts our Club.

If you don't like me, that's fine. If you don't like any of the Directors, that's also fine. If you don't have the funds to contribute that's understandable. All that we ask is please allow other fans to make their choices to do what they want to help their Club.

Jim Adie
HSL


Has dance hibs been back to answer either of these posts yet?

[Dancehibs]

Has dance hibs been back to answer either of these posts yet?

Too busy heading through to parkhead. You heading through?

[Allant1981]

Has dance hibs been back to answer either of these posts yet?

for 2 days, you walking backwards!

[tamig]

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.
We’ll never get to the point of being able to match their donations if the bulk of our support have as blaise an attitude as you. I’m sure the majority of them will continue their DDs beyond the share transfer - whenever that may be. That will give them access to over £1m a year that we won’t have. The more money we can make available to bolster the squad surely increases our chance of continuing to compete for the big prizes. It doesn’t just happen by magic or coming out with excuses as to why folk shouldn’t contribute.

[WhileTheChief..]

If the bulk of the support are as blasé as me?

Erm, I think you’ll find they are. I’m one of them, but there’s at least 10,000 others that are ST holders too.

The vast majority of Hibs fans are just not into HSL, for whatever reasons, as you guys would like.

Sorry but it’s no ones fault, it’s just the way it is.

[hibbydad]

Ok people are entitled to their opinion but don't knock the whole concept of HSL unfairly. Also don't start to complain when those on the dark side are miles ahead of us because they have backed their club financially in large numbers whilst we have not done the same for our club

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ok people are entitled to their opinion but don't knock the whole concept of HSL unfairly. Also don't start to complain when those on the dark side are miles ahead of us because they have backed their club financially in large numbers whilst we have not done the same for our club

Totally different situations, so no point comparing us to the mutants, their club was dying.....

[Leithenhibby]

Totally different situations, so no point comparing us to the mutants, their club was dying.....

It was, but one day, and it will come at some point in the future, our club will need a cash injection just to stay at the level we are at now. Surely now is the time to strive for that bigger goal?.

Over the last few years, we have made so many inroads to improving our club going forward and it's got to be so much easier from a position of strength to take this forward to the next level, IMHO.

The January window will be upon us soon enough and we will lose a few of the squad as it stands at the moment, it's time to back NL and his staff and to take our club to the next level, possibly a level we've never been to since the 50's...

HSL - https://goo.gl/EEEfqx

GGTTH

[BlackSheep]

Things like improved league finishes, cup runs, trading players for a profit, improved TV and advertising deals, increase commercial turnover etc etc.

I guess my main point through all this, although perhaps poorly made, is that I think fans pay enough as it is through STs, walk ups, merchandise, hospitality and the likes.

We, and i include all of us here, already do our bit.

Please quantify 'our bit'.

I ask this as it makes absolutely no sense... every supporter has a different circumstance and therefor 'their bit' has a completely different value than the one they sit next to or watch on tv with or speak to at work.

Some fans cannot afford a ST or even to walk up or buy merchandise or visit hospitality and the likes.... are they not doing 'their bit'?

And what is enough? Will you stop attending games if the prices rise and the merch costs more? You entitled to be disgruntled about these points and if you cannot afford a rise in costs that is different but if you simply have a number in mind as to what is enough for a fan to pay then tell us all what that magic number is... I just want to make sure we are all doing 'our bit'!

I am sure i speak for many if not all when i say that as a contributor to HSL i do not have an inflated sense of what I do for our club or feel that i am better than other fans, but one difference between you and I specifically is I don't think attempting to quantify a 'bit' is sensible.

If those who can afford it and want to contribute to HSL do so, then others like yourself shouldn't criticise this or discourage others from joining. Whether you actively say 'don't join' or if it is just through the negativity you show towards HSL it affects some fans' decision whether or not to join. If you have nothing positive to add then perhaps you should avoid these threads.

Your main point, while poorly made, seems quite selfish and based on your idea of what a fan should contribute.... thats not how things work I'm afraid.

[Pretty Boy]

It's been touched on but I think timing was a huge issue for HSL.

FOH launched ar a time of dire need and once the supporters groups, JKB etc got behind them it was always going to do well. There was no choice. Budge stepping in, the club being saved and winning the league meant it rode a crest of a wave at a time of euphoria for them. Getting that 1st paynent is the hard part as once someone is signed up to a DD they almost forget about it. All the circumstances made that easy for FOH.

HSL on the other hand was launched shortly after a disastrous relegation and a sticky start to the following season. There were protests the preceding summer and the feel good factor Dempster and Stubbs brought was still a way off. It's worth remembering LD posted on Twitter she had to stay in a hotel after a defeat from Alloa after receiving threats and followed up with a scathing post on here about negativity. For the record I didn't agree with her post, folk had every right to be angry at that time albeit it goes without saying personal threats are far too much. The AGM saw protests and it was heated to put it mildly. Ultimately no one knows the terms of the deal STF done with the bank and whether there was a reason HSL had to be launched against such a backdrop. It was easy for even moderate fans to see HSL as a way for the fans to bail out the board and pay for their failings. In short it was a bloody hard sell.

I often wonder if HSL launched now if things would be very different. There's a general air of positivity and the fan/club connection is, for the most part, far better. I think the legacy of the launch of HSL stills hangs heavy and makes getting that previously mentioned 1st payment difficult. The one thing I still think was a huge mistake was not absolutely hanmering home the message post cup final. I expressed this to HSL directors privately and they were very thorough in their answer but I still think it was a glaring error. People were deperate to throw money at the club, the message was obvious: 'you can help this happen again and again' and any negativity would have been drowned out in the general delirium.

As it is I think we need to accept HSL will never match FOH. It's about keeping current DDs going now and trying to attract as many more as we can. It simply isn't going to be thousands though.

[tamig]

If the bulk of the support are as blasé as me?

Erm, I think you’ll find they are. I’m one of them, but there’s at least 10,000 others that are ST holders too.

The vast majority of Hibs fans are just not into HSL, for whatever reasons, as you guys would like.

Sorry but it’s no ones fault, it’s just the way it is.
You seem to be quite accepting of the situation regarding fairly low take up of HSL to date. Its an additional way of getting cash into the team that Hesrtd and Aberdeen are doing to good effect - albeit the FOH cash has been a diversion. Are you happy to see these clubs potentially pull away from us on the park due to their financial advantage? Having bigger budgets clearly gives more chance of success. HSL is the vehicle for every Hibs fan to do that. I’m sure quite a few of the 10k fans you mention will sign up to HSL soon enough.

[WhileTheChief..]

You seem to be quite accepting of the situation regarding fairly low take up of HSL to date. Its an additional way of getting cash into the team that Hesrtd and Aberdeen are doing to good effect - albeit the FOH cash has been a diversion. Are you happy to see these clubs potentially pull away from us on the park due to their financial advantage? Having bigger budgets clearly gives more chance of success. HSL is the vehicle for every Hibs fan to do that. I’m sure quite a few of the 10k fans you mention will sign up to HSL soon enough.

Hearts amd Aberdeen have both had a higher turnover than us for as long as I can remember.

I don’t believe that fan donations are the only way for us to be competitive. I don’t think the Hibs board feels that way either.

The extra cash is of course welcome but I doubt the club rely on it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Please quantify 'our bit'.

I ask this as it makes absolutely no sense... every supporter has a different circumstance and therefor 'their bit' has a completely different value than the one they sit next to or watch on tv with or speak to at work.

Some fans cannot afford a ST or even to walk up or buy merchandise or visit hospitality and the likes.... are they not doing 'their bit'?

And what is enough? Will you stop attending games if the prices rise and the merch costs more? You entitled to be disgruntled about these points and if you cannot afford a rise in costs that is different but if you simply have a number in mind as to what is enough for a fan to pay then tell us all what that magic number is... I just want to make sure we are all doing 'our bit'!

I am sure i speak for many if not all when i say that as a contributor to HSL i do not have an inflated sense of what I do for our club or feel that i am better than other fans, but one difference between you and I specifically is I don't think attempting to quantify a 'bit' is sensible.

If those who can afford it and want to contribute to HSL do so, then others like yourself shouldn't criticise this or discourage others from joining. Whether you actively say 'don't join' or if it is just through the negativity you show towards HSL it affects some fans' decision whether or not to join. If you have nothing positive to add then perhaps you should avoid these threads.

Your main point, while poorly made, seems quite selfish and based on your idea of what a fan should contribute.... thats not how things work I'm afraid.

Your bit is whatever it happens to be. Im not going to quantify anything or write a thesis on it on a Sunday morning! You seem to have it covered.

[BlackSheep]

Your bit is whatever it happens to be. Im not going to quantify anything or write a thesis on it on a Sunday morning! You seem to have it covered.

Thanks for clarifying.

You seem to prove many others’ points with this reply.

If everyone has their own ‘bit’ to do for the club then stop discouraging others from joining HSL if they feel that can form part of their ‘bit’.

Portraying HSL in a negative light is just as harmful to the cause as going out of your way to actively stop others from joining. Whichever way you cut it, you are dissuading some from joining.

[hibbydad]

Baldy Foghorn if you are at the agm on wednesday night I will try to speak to you. While the Chief I think you misunderstand what is at stake here we are not talking about turnover but the provision of working capital. I f HSL can make a meaningful contribution leading to an improvement in the playing squad then turnover will increase. I accept you don't want to contribute to HSL but please stop setting out a case which might dissuade others from contributing

[Baldy Foghorn]

Baldy Foghorn if you are at the agm on wednesday night I will try to speak to you. While the Chief I think you misunderstand what is at stake here we are not talking about turnover but the provision of working capital. I f HSL can make a meaningful contribution leading to an improvement in the playing squad then turnover will increase. I accept you don't want to contribute to HSL but please stop setting out a case which might dissuade others from contributing

Yes I will be in attendance. Look for a big baldy napper......:wink:

[WhileTheChief..]

Thanks for clarifying.

You seem to prove many others’ points with this reply.

If everyone has their own ‘bit’ to do for the club then stop discouraging others from joining HSL if they feel that can form part of their ‘bit’.

Portraying HSL in a negative light is just as harmful to the cause as going out of your way to actively stop others from joining. Whichever way you cut it, you are discussing some from joining.

Again, I’ve never once tried to discourage anyone.

Is this now one of these topics where only gushing praise of the scheme is allowed?

For clarity my points are these...

I think fans pay enough already
I don’t think it’s the end of the world if we don’t donate as much as Hearts fans
If we really are reliant on HSL then we are screwed already and may as well accept whatever fate awaits.

These might not be popular, but nothing there is saying “stop donating, don’t sign up”.

[cleanyman]

How many folk are paying to HSL anyway ?

[BlackSheep]

Again, I’ve never once tried to discourage anyone.

Is this now one of these topics where only gushing praise of the scheme is allowed?

For clarity my points are these...

I think fans pay enough already
I don’t think it’s the end of the world if we don’t donate as much as Hearts fans
If we really are reliant on HSL then we are screwed already and may as well accept whatever fate awaits.

These might not be popular, but nothing there is saying “stop donating, don’t sign up”.

What you are failing to see in my posts and in many others is that your negativity towards HSL is harmful to their cause. If you have nothing positive to add then don’t go out of your way to be negative and contribute towards people deciding not to join up.

[hibee_nation]

Again, I’ve never once tried to discourage anyone.

Is this now one of these topics where only gushing praise of the scheme is allowed?

For clarity my points are these...

I think fans pay enough already
I don’t think it’s the end of the world if we don’t donate as much as Hearts fans
If we really are reliant on HSL then we are screwed already and may as well accept whatever fate awaits.

These might not be popular, but nothing there is saying “stop donating, don’t sign up”.

Your negativity hurts Hibs. If you've nothing positive to say do Hibs a favour and bite yer tongue and butt out. Thank you.

[Gerard]

HSL has raised money that has gone to improving our team. Hearts and Aberdeen see the value of fans giving money to specifically spend on players.
If we want to compete with these teams and others this important that NL have as big a budget as is possible.
I would not like to see other teams signing players that we could have signed, but could not afford to.

[hibbydad]

I know who you are Baldy so will endevour to speak to you on Wed. Black sheep and Hibee world you are both right there has been too much negativity towards HSL and I really wonder if they are the same people who have heavily criticised STF and Rod. Sometimes I feel they want their cake and eat it

[hibbydad]

Sorry I meant to say Hibee World

[hibbydad]

Sorry again I meant Hibee Nation

[Just Alf]

Again, I’ve never once tried to discourage anyone.

Is this now one of these topics where only gushing praise of the scheme is allowed?

For clarity my points are these...

I think fans pay enough already
I don’t think it’s the end of the world if we don’t donate as much as Hearts fans
If we really are reliant on HSL then we are screwed already and may as well accept whatever fate awaits.

These might not be popular, but nothing there is saying “stop donating, don’t sign up”.For what it's worth I pretty much agree with your points... However :D

Us and the yams are pretty much on a level... We get the sameish TV, advertising and ticket money.

So when it comes to buying/paying for players I'd imagine the team that's getting a million quid more per year can afford to pay a bit more than the one that isn't?

Or am I missing something?

I really do see it as simple as that. I was a ST holder but can't afford that anymore, so I've upped my HSL a wee bit.

Seriously what is wrong with any of that?

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[Speedway]

I still think bundling with STs is the answer.

As pretty boy said, the first payment is the hardest so remove the decision.

An premium ST costs £x and for that you also get y shares in Hibs and you play your part in increasing the playing budget and you get your name printed on the bog roll in the away end.

Even if we only added £5 a month to the cost of an ST, that’s £60 annually x 13,600 = £816,000.

If you’re a current HSL member, thanks for the extra £60.

Sorted.

[CropleyWasGod]

I still think bundling with STs is the answer.

As pretty boy said, the first payment is the hardest so remove the decision.

An premium ST costs £x and for that you also get y shares in Hibs and you play your part in increasing the playing budget and you get your name printed on the bog roll in the away end.

Even if we only added £5 a month to the cost of an ST, that’s £60 annually x 13,600 = £816,000.

If you’re a current HSL member, thanks for the extra £60.

Sorted.You'd have to knock off 1/6 of that for VAT, as it's part of the cost of the ST. There isn't any VAT on the cost of shares.

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[Baldy Foghorn]

I know who you are Baldy so will endevour to speak to you on Wed. Black sheep and Hibee world you are both right there has been too much negativity towards HSL and I really wonder if they are the same people who have heavily criticised STF and Rod. Sometimes I feel they want their cake and eat it

:aok:

[Hibs4185]

I think an option to donate x amount to HSL on the season ticket renewal documents is the ideal scenario.

Instantly reach 14-15,000 people, and when you have an easy tick box infront of you, you are probably more likely to do that than visit the website etc.

I am sure if it’s a donation it negates any VAT contribution also?

[CropleyWasGod]

I think an option to donate x amount to HSL on the season ticket renewal documents is the ideal scenario.

Instantly reach 14-15,000 people, and when you have an easy tick box infront of you, you are probably more likely to do that than visit the website etc.

I am sure if it’s a donation it negates any VAT contribution also?I wish VAT was as easy as that.[emoji16]

What you're suggesting is that the ST holder pays x plus y to the Club. The Club then pays over y to HSL. HSL then use that y to buy shares in the Club.

One of the reasons the likes of HSL and FOH are kept separate from the Club's is to reduce the chances of their being seen as one and the same, hence causing VAT and tax problems.

I'm not saying that your suggestion wouldn't work, but my instinct says that HMRC would be "interested". As Hearts have done, the Club would need to be properly advised and be sure of their ground before they went down that route.

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[Jack]

I wish VAT was as easy as that.[emoji16]

What you're suggesting is that the ST holder pays x plus y to the Club. The Club then pays over y to HSL. HSL then use that y to buy shares in the Club.

One of the reasons the likes of HSL and FOH are kept separate from the Club's is to reduce the chances of their being seen as one and the same, hence causing VAT and tax problems.

I'm not saying that your suggestion wouldn't work, but my instinct says that HMRC would be "interested". As Hearts have done, the Club would need to be properly advised and be sure of their ground before they went down that route.

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From what you're saying there I'm taking it Hearts/FOH could have VAT and other tax problems on supporters contributions once FOH take control of the club???

Whereas HSL won't be in control here so the same issues won't arise? Clever Hibs :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

From what you're saying there I'm taking it Hearts/FOH could have VAT and other tax problems on supporters contributions once FOH take control of the club???

Whereas HSL won't be in control here so the same issues won't arise? Clever Hibs :-)

I think Hearts, or perhaps FOH, appointed a VAT expert to their Board last year. That may have been to work out a way around the situation that you, correctly IMO, describe.

I think we will face that same issue once all the shares available have been bought

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[Hibs4185]

I wish VAT was as easy as that.[emoji16]

What you're suggesting is that the ST holder pays x plus y to the Club. The Club then pays over y to HSL. HSL then use that y to buy shares in the Club.

One of the reasons the likes of HSL and FOH are kept separate from the Club's is to reduce the chances of their being seen as one and the same, hence causing VAT and tax problems.

I'm not saying that your suggestion wouldn't work, but my instinct says that HMRC would be "interested". As Hearts have done, the Club would need to be properly advised and be sure of their ground before they went down that route.

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I was thinking we would pay our season ticket renewal as normal but somewhere in the literature there is an option to have your details added to HSL database along with direct debit details and the amount you would like to donate directly to HSL.

So no direct income to the club. Instead the income is generated by HSL and then passed to hibs.

Even if there was a 40% uptake then it would be 5000-6000 members.