Australia considers embassy move to Jerusalem

[makaveli1875]

Pretty brave move from the old Aussies if they go ahead with it .

[One Day Soon]

Pretty brave move from the old Aussies if they go ahead with it .


Great. Trump pours petrol on the flames and Australia feels the need to throw more on.

What conceivable sensible strategic reason could there be for Australia to conduct such an action in this geographical location?

[JeMeSouviens]

Great. Trump pours petrol on the flames and Australia feels the need to throw more on.

What conceivable sensible strategic reason could there be for Australia to conduct such an action in this geographical location?

None available - so how about a by-election in an Oz constituency with a sizeable Jewish vote? :rolleyes:

Yes, really.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/16/morrisons-desperate-embassy-stunt-is-a-silly-idea-designed-for-him-to-cling-to-power

[IGRIGI]

Capital of Israel so I don't see any issue.

[Slavers]

This is all leading up to the Dome of the Rock being demolished and the Third Temple being built then the Jewish messiah will reign over the world.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is all leading up to the Dome of the Rock being demolished and the Third Temple being built then the Jewish messiah will reign over the world.

...alternatively, it might mean that the Aussie PM keeps his job a few months longer. :wink:

[Slavers]

...alternatively, it might mean that the Aussie PM keeps his job a few months longer. :wink:

Could be both!?

[CropleyWasGod]

Could be both!?

Right.

"Hey, God, that guy Morrison wants to move his office so that he can keep his job".

"Oy vey, what do I care? I keep my job, no matter what those schmucks down there think."

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This is all leading up to the Dome of the Rock being demolished and the Third Temple being built then the Jewish messiah will reign over the world.

Nae smiley?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This is all leading up to the Dome of the Rock being demolished and the Third Temple being built then the Jewish messiah will reign over the world.

To be fair... is that not how the dome of the rock got their in the first place? What goes around...

[One Day Soon]

Capital of Israel so I don't see any issue.

A genius speaks.

[One Day Soon]

None available - so how about a by-election in an Oz constituency with a sizeable Jewish vote? :rolleyes:

Yes, really.

Imagine my ****ing surprise.

[One Day Soon]

This is all leading up to the Dome of the Rock being demolished and the Third Temple being built then the Jewish messiah will reign over the world.

No, it isn't.

[Smartie]

Without wishing to start trouble (!?!?) what is this Dome of the Rock and Third Temple business all about?

I know very little about the Middle East and I'm not religious, but I am interested in the history of the region as well as the ongoing geo- political issues.

[Pretty Boy]

Without wishing to start trouble (!?!?) what is this Dome of the Rock and Third Temple business all about?

I know very little about the Middle East and I'm not religious, but I am interested in the history of the region as well as the ongoing geo- political issues.

The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Muslims believe it is where Muhammad began his journey to heaven. It's built on the site of the 2nd Jewish Temple which was desttoyed during the Roman siege about 30 years after the death of Christ.

Some Jews believe a 3rd temple is required to fulfil the prophecy of a Messiah. Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe Jesus was said Messiah and the new covenant superseded the need for a temple as the Holy Spirit forms a part of the tenple in each of us. We/they believe the consecration, celebration and consumption of the Eucharist and it's direct link to Christs death and resurection are of greater importance than a literal, earthly temple. I think the various Protestant churches attach varying degrees of importance to the 3rd temple.

Muslims obviously oppose a 3rd temple as it would involve the destruction of a Mosque and the Dome. Temple Mount is regarded as the 3rd holiest site in Islam.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Temple

[Bristolhibby]

The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Muslims believe it is where Muhammad began his journey to heaven. It's built on the site of the 2nd Jewish Temple which was desttoyed during the Roman siege about 30 years after the death of Christ.

Some Jews believe a 3rd temple is required to fulfil the prophecy of a Messiah. Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe Jesus was said Messiah and the new covenant superseded the need for a temple as the Holy Spirit forms a part of the tenple in each of us. We/they believe the consecration, celebration and consumption of the Eucharist and it's direct link to Christs death and resurection are of greater importance than a literal, earthly temple. I think the various Protestant churches attach varying degrees of importance to the 3rd temple.

Muslims obviously oppose a 3rd temple as it would involve the destruction of a Mosque and the Dome. Temple Mount is regarded as the 3rd holiest site in Islam.

I went there last week when I was over in Israel for the Scotland game. Jerusalem was the highlight of the trip for me. I have done a bit of reading since I got back. The place is chock full of religious history and significance. I recommend going if you can.

J

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I went there last week when I was over in Israel for the Scotland game. Jerusalem was the highlight of the trip for me. I have done a bit of reading since I got back. The place is chock full of religious history and significance. I recommend going if you can.

J

Would absolutely love to go - was it safe enough?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Without wishing to start trouble (!?!?) what is this Dome of the Rock and Third Temple business all about?

I know very little about the Middle East and I'm not religious, but I am interested in the history of the region as well as the ongoing geo- political issues.

Onviously it was a massibe coincidende that when the arabs took over the city, tye site they had to build on just so happened to be the site of the most holy momument un judaism. A bit like how they turned the hagia sofia into a mosque when it was built as a basilica by the byzaintines (i think).

Now the jews habe it back, i think the more hardline right wingers in irseael want the dome of the rock to be demolished. I think that woyld almost certainly spark a major war in the region. But then religious armies fighting ovwr jerusalem is hardly a new thing is it...!

[JeMeSouviens]

Onviously it was a massibe coincidende that when the arabs took over the city, tye site they had to build on just so happened to be the site of the most holy momument un judaism. A bit like how they turned the hagia sofia into a mosque when it was built as a basilica by the byzaintines (i think).

Now the jews habe it back, i think the more hardline right wingers in irseael want the dome of the rock to be demolished. I think that woyld almost certainly spark a major war in the region. But then religious armies fighting ovwr jerusalem is hardly a new thing is it...!

Slightly unfair given that the Romans knocked down the 2nd temple 6 centuries or so before Islam even got going!

[JeMeSouviens]

Would absolutely love to go - was it safe enough?

Me too, and Egypt. Actually probably moreso Egypt because everyone is there for the history. I find the situation of being a heathen in among tons of the devout slightly unsetlling.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Slightly unfair given that the Romans knocked down the 2nd temple 6 centuries or so before Islam even got going!

But the site was still there, and presumably the jews still prayed at the western wall?

I dont know, im just saying it seems a helluva coincidence that old mo coyld have ascended to heaven from any spot in the world, but he chose the most holy site in its major rival religion to do so.

But maybe im just being cynical...😀

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Me too, and Egypt. Actually probably moreso Egypt because everyone is there for the history. I find the situation of being a heathen in among tons of the devout slightly unsetlling.

Yeah, just think of the tourism industry if it was a stable region. I just wouldnt risk egypt just now though.

[Pretty Boy]

I went there last week when I was over in Israel for the Scotland game. Jerusalem was the highlight of the trip for me. I have done a bit of reading since I got back. The place is chock full of religious history and significance. I recommend going if you can.

J

It's definitely on the to do list. One of the local Church of Scotland Ministers near me is arranging a Holy Land pilgrimage open to all the local Churches but the cost and having a 1 year old is a bit prohibitive at the moment. The whole development and doctrine of the western faiths fascinates me.


But the site was still there, and presumably the jews still prayed at the western wall?

I dont know, im just saying it seems a helluva coincidence that old mo coyld have ascended to heaven from any spot in the world, but he chose the most holy site in its major rival religion to do so.

But maybe im just being cynical...��

I'm almost certain it wasn't a coincidence. Jerusalem is such a powerful draw for all the major mono-theistic religions it seems an obvious place for the 'new kid on the block' to choose as a shrine for added significance. I suppose whether it was an overtly hostile act is the question.

[JeMeSouviens]

But the site was still there, and presumably the jews still prayed at the western wall?

I dont know, im just saying it seems a helluva coincidence that old mo coyld have ascended to heaven from any spot in the world, but he chose the most holy site in its major rival religion to do so.

But maybe im just being cynical...😀

Aiui (ie. sketchily), in a similar way to how christianity builds on judaism, islam builds on them both, eg. venerates various old testament prophets etc. So it's likely that judaism assigning sacred status to the temple mount has carry over effects for the 2 upstarts.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Aiui (ie. sketchily), in a similar way to how christianity builds on judaism, islam builds on them both, eg. venerates various old testament prophets etc. So it's likely that judaism assigning sacred status to the temple mount has carry over effects for the 2 upstarts.

Yeah fair points - given the tooing and froing, and the inportance of symbolism to all the abarahamic religions, i doubt it was an entirely benign act. But equally, apparently we Christians turned it into a church when we ruled jerusalen, again i doubt this was benign.

In fact, given the historic paralells, maybe the modern israel deserves some credit for this not being a mainstream proposition (at least at the moment!)

[One Day Soon]

Me too, and Egypt. Actually probably moreso Egypt because everyone is there for the history. I find the situation of being a heathen in among tons of the devout slightly unsetlling.

Welcome brother to the life of the Unionist on .net. :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

Welcome brother to the life of the Unionist on .net. :greengrin

I'd say the number of unionists on here (despite the absolute hell that awaits our country) is extremely worrying.

[marinello59]

I'd say the number of unionists on here (despite the absolute hell that awaits our country) is extremely worrying.

I'm trying to work out if you are arguing against Independence or Brexit. The language is identical in either case. :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm trying to work out if you are arguing against Independence or Brexit. The language is identical in either case. :greengrin

Is it?

One is a future where we have absolutely no control where we're heading. The other is a future where we are in control. Are we really so shan as a nation as to consider having control just as bad, or worse than having no control?

I find our self loathing unbearable.

[JeMeSouviens]

Welcome brother to the life of the Unionist on .net. :greengrin

That did make me :hilarious

:applause:

[CropleyWasGod]

Htf did we get from an Aussie trying to keep his job to IndyRef2?

Is this the new Kevin Bacon game?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[McD]

Is it?

One is a future where we have absolutely no control where we're heading. The other is a future where we are in control. Are we really so shan as a nation as to consider having control just as bad, or worse than having no control?

I find our self loathing unbearable.


That may be how your perceive people who voted No in the referendum, but it doesn’t describe many, if any, of them

[Pretty Boy]

Htf did we get from an Aussie trying to keep his job to IndyRef2?

Is this the new Kevin Bacon game?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

It's pretty much a rule on the HG now. Your viewpoint on anything is defined by whether you are a 'yoon' or a 'nat'.

It's ****ing draining and detracts from potentially interesting discussion.

[marinello59]

It's pretty much a rule on the HG now. Your viewpoint on anything is defined by whether you are a 'yoon' or a 'nat'.

It's ****ing draining and detracts from potentially interesting discussion.

That’s all down to the constitutional obsession of a few. They genuinely can’t understand that there are much bigger issues for the majority. Take out the extremists and party slaves on both sides and there still is some decent discussion going on.

[McD]

It's pretty much a rule on the HG now. Your viewpoint on anything is defined by whether you are a 'yoon' or a 'nat'.

It's ****ing draining and detracts from potentially interesting discussion.


That’s all down to the constitutional obsession of a few. They genuinely can’t understand that there are much bigger issues for the majority. Take out the extremists and party slaves on both sides and there still is some decent discussion going on.


Agree with you both, both great posts :top marks

[Hibernia&Alba]

Capital of Israel so I don't see any issue.

Aw ****ing hell - East Jerusalem is illegally occupied, according to international law. Australia has now displaced us as America's greatest lickspittle and has voted against the two state solution in the U.N. several times. It is the now the ultimate neoliberal economics/neo-con politics whore of Washington.

The capital of Israel is Tel Aviv!!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Aw ****ing hell - East Jerusalem is illegally occupied, according to international law. Australia has now displaced us as America's greatest lickspittle and has voted against the two state solution in the U.N. several times. It is the now the ultimate neoliberal economics/neo-con politics whore of Washington.

The capital of Israel is Tel Aviv!!

Genuine question, and to get this back on topic... does the proposed palestinian state also have another capital, or do they want to make east jerusalem theirs?

Id always thought (possibly wrongly) that jerusalem was to be made a 'special status' that was part of both states or neither?

[makaveli1875]

Aw ****ing hell - East Jerusalem is illegally occupied, according to international law. Australia has now displaced us as America's greatest lickspittle and has voted against the two state solution in the U.N. several times. It is the now the ultimate neoliberal economics/neo-con politics whore of Washington.

The capital of Israel is Tel Aviv!!

The Palestinians voted against the 2 state solution at the UN. They don't want 2 States, they want a 1 state solution with Israel wiped off the map

[One Day Soon]

That’s all down to the constitutional obsession of a few. They genuinely can’t understand that there are much bigger issues for the majority. Take out the extremists and party slaves on both sides and there still is some decent discussion going on.


What an excellent expression. I've never seen that used before but it fits just perfectly.

[One Day Soon]

That did make me :hilarious

:applause:

I'm finding more and more with age that humour is the most underrated characteristic - especially politically!

[One Day Soon]

Is it?

One is a future where we have absolutely no control where we're heading. The other is a future where we are in control. Are we really so shan as a nation as to consider having control just as bad, or worse than having no control?

I find our self loathing unbearable.

Oh dear.

[JeMeSouviens]

Agree with you both, both great posts :top marks

Hmmm, not so sure. If all these constitutional handwringers would move on we could get back to solving Israel-Palestine. :greengrin


The Palestinians voted against the 2 state solution at the UN. They don't want 2 States, they want a 1 state solution with Israel wiped off the map

There's what they want and what they'd settle for in negotiation. The IRA nominally wanted a 32 county socialist Ireland. The ANC wanted a communist South Africa. There are enough moderate voices in Palestine and Israel to agree something sensible. They need to be pressured (primarily the Israeli side needs pressured by the US atm imo) to get on with it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Genuine question, and to get this back on topic... does the proposed palestinian state also have another capital, or do they want to make east jerusalem theirs?

Id always thought (possibly wrongly) that jerusalem was to be made a 'special status' that was part of both states or neither?

The Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as their capital, but actually operate out of Ramallah since EJ is under occupation. The Israelis claim the entirety of Jersualem as theirs. I think the negotiators were trying to move towards allowing both sides to have recognised capitals in E & W Jerusalem respectively.

[One Day Soon]

Hmmm, not so sure. If all these constitutional handwringers would move on we could get back to solving Israel-Palestine. :greengrin



There's what they want and what they'd settle for in negotiation. The IRA nominally wanted a 32 county socialist Ireland. The ANC wanted a communist South Africa. There are enough moderate voices in Palestine and Israel to agree something sensible. They need to be pressured (primarily the Israeli side needs pressured by the US atm imo) to get on with it.


How about drawing a perpendicular line through Scotland - North and South of, say, the Western edge of Livingston? All the Nats get an Indy Scotland in the West and all the Unionists get to stay in the UK in the East. Then the handwringers can do their thing in Glasgow, Dumfries, Stirling and Inverness and the rest of us can get on with ironing our Union Jack underpants unmolested in our Eastern nirvana?

We get the Western Isles though. That's only fair if we're taking Livingston.

[JeMeSouviens]

How about drawing a perpendicular line through Scotland - North and South of, say, the Western edge of Livingston? All the Nats get an Indy Scotland in the West and all the Unionists get to stay in the UK in the East. Then the handwringers can do their thing in Glasgow, Dumfries, Stirling and Inverness and the rest of us can get on with ironing our Union Jack underpants unmolested in our Eastern nirvana?

We get the Western Isles though. That's only fair if we're taking Livingston.

You're going to have to start a new thread or you're going to get us all in bother again. :tsk tsk:

[One Day Soon]

The Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as their capital, but actually operate out of Ramallah since EJ is under occupation. The Israelis claim the entirety of Jersualem as theirs. I think the negotiators were trying to move towards allowing both sides to have recognised capitals in E & W Jerusalem respectively.


Jerusalem should be an international City of no state.

Quite often it's possible to see a logical outcome that could be relatively straightforwardly implemented in any given context if the protagonists would make some concessions but I just can't see that here. Not least because the actual conflict between Israel and Palestinians is both a major cluster**** in itself but also a proxy for the giant extended range of interests in - and interfering in - the Middle East.

It's a bit like the current war between trans activists and feminists, the only way it seems either side will settle is if they get something which fundamentally - in the view of both parties - destroys the rights/expectations/beliefs of the other.

[makaveli1875]

Jerusalem should be an international City of no state.



I think that was the plan originally , then it fell to Jordanian occupation , they lost it to Israel during a war who then decided to annex it .

[One Day Soon]

I think that was the plan originally , then it fell to Jordanian occupation , they lost it to Israel during a war who then decided to annex it .

Countries are such ****ing twats.

[CropleyWasGod]

Countries are such ****ing twats.Sounds so much better than that ***** "Imagine there's no countries"......

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Slavers]

No, it isn't.

I don't know how you can be so certain. What about the Red Heifer?

https://nypost.com/2018/09/09/prophecy-fulfilled-after-red-cow-is-born-at-temple-of-israel/

[Pretty Boy]

I don't know how you can be so certain. What about the Red Heifer?

https://nypost.com/2018/09/09/prophecy-fulfilled-after-red-cow-is-born-at-temple-of-israel/

Well if the US version of The Sun reports it then it must be true.

You are aware the New York Post is regularly derided for publishing sensationalist nonsense I take it.

[Slavers]

Well if the US version of The Sun reports it then it must be true.

You are aware the New York Post is regularly derided for publishing sensationalist nonsense I take it.

I didn't know that tbh but why make the newspaper the point of topic. If you are disputing that a Red Heifer has been born then you can see there are multiple sources reporting the same thing.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1015577/end-of-the-world-red-heifer-prophecy-israel-temple-institute-armageddon

The first Red Heifer born in Israel for over 2000 years that is hugely significant in Third Temple/End Times prophecy.

[Pretty Boy]

I didn't know that tbh but why make the newspaper the point of topic. If you are disputing that a Red Heifer has been born then you can see there are multiple sources reporting the same thing.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1015577/end-of-the-world-red-heifer-prophecy-israel-temple-institute-armageddon

The first Red Heifer born in Israel for over 2000 years that is hugely significant in Third Temple/End Times prophecy.

It's a selecively bred animal. The Temple Institute have had a program in place for years to attempt to engineer a red heifer, particularly using Red Angus cattle to cross breed with domestic Israeli breeds. The birth isn't a miracle, it's a deliberate human act, one of many 'near misses' since the program started. They were bound to get it right eventually. Of course The Express or New York Post fail to mention that because it dilutes the 'end of the world is nigh' sensationalism.

I'd accept there is a split in Jewish traditions. Some, including the Temple Insitute, believe the rebuilding of the temple will be a human act so probably see this animal as legitimate. Others believe it will be a divine act, which probably invalidates an engineered animal from qualifying. If you fall into the 1st category then fair enough it's probably significant, as I said above I don't place much emphasis on the literal temple.

[CropleyWasGod]

I didn't know that tbh but why make the newspaper the point of topic. If you are disputing that a Red Heifer has been born then you can see there are multiple sources reporting the same thing.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1015577/end-of-the-world-red-heifer-prophecy-israel-temple-institute-armageddon

The first Red Heifer born in Israel for over 2000 years that is hugely significant in Third Temple/End Times prophecy.You do realise that, if you're right, you won't get the chance to come on here and say GIRUY? [emoji39]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Slavers]

You do realise that, if you're right, you won't get the chance to come on here and say GIRUY? [emoji39]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Well I hope it's no true but there are so many signs Red Heifers, Trump and points of conflict everywhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well I hope it's no true but there are so many signs Red Heifers, Trump and points of conflict everywhere.And there's a new 666 bus service to Larkhall.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

The Government has lost the by-election, so the Apocalypse can be postponed for the time being.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Slavers]

The Government has lost the by-election, so the Apocalypse can be postponed for the time being.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

The apocalypse is a metaphor just Like the end of times is a metaphor.

The new age must be brought in hence the use of terms like end of days and Armageddon etc that's the transition from old to new.