Scotland U21 v England U21

[Frazerbob]

Should be some Hibs interest at the PBS tomorrow evening. 1730 KO, free entry for SSC members, fiver for everyone else and £2 for kids. Unfortunately it’s not the crucial game it would’ve been had we held on for the win in Kiev but always good to get one over the neighbours.

Beats watching The Chase on a Tuesday tea-time.

[Billy Whizz]

I’m heading along too. Hope Oli gets a start

[bingo70]

I’m going to this.

Are there any decent young players in the England side to look out for?

They seem to have promoted their best young players to the first team.

[calumhibee1]

I’m going to this.

Are there any decent young players in the England side to look out for?

They seem to have promoted their best young players to the first team.

Phil Foden from Man City is an outstanding prospect. Already made 5 appearances for them this season.

Won the Golden ball at the u17 World Cup. Which btw has been won a ridiculous amount of times by Nigerian players :greengrin

[tamig]

Should be some Hibs interest at the PBS tomorrow evening. 1730 KO, free entry for SSC members, fiver for everyone else and £2 for kids. Unfortunately it’s not the crucial game it would’ve been had we held on for the win in Kiev but always good to get one over the neighbours.

Beats watching The Chase on a Tuesday tea-time.
I’ll take The Chase any day of the week.

[Biggie]

Surprised they got the gig.....must be they needed a smaller pitch for the young laddies to play on.

[SteveHFC]

May pop along.

[theonlywayisup]

Think it will be 3-0 or 4-0 to the away team. Don't like to say this but I think England have a good crop of youngsters coming through.

Though will be interesting to see how big Porteous does.

[superfurryhibby]

Going along for my first visit to the PBS since an end of season derby match ( loss) under McLeish.
Pity about the Ukraine result as that means we can’t qualify, but tickets were bought before that game. Very reasonable prices.

[BullsCloseHibs]

I’ll take The Chase any day of the week.

Would rather sellotape my eyes than visit that dump.

[Cod Boy]

I think the game is on live via the BBC website.

[neil7908]

I'd like to go but why the 5.30 kick off? Unlikely I'll get out of work in time which is a shame as it'll be a decent game with a few young Hibees.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

To all those going on here please remember to take necessary precautions before and after visiting that ****hole 😎💚👍

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I’m going to this.

Are there any decent young players in the England side to look out for?

They seem to have promoted their best young players to the first team.

Ryan Sessegnon and Phil Foden.

[1van Sprou7e]

Anyone know what stand will be open to Scotland fans?

[bingo70]

Anyone know what stand will be open to Scotland fans?

I'm sitting in the new half finished monstrosity.

Wee bit surprised only one stand is being opened if thats the case? Thought we might have got a decent crowd.

I've no idea how many people normally go to these games though.

[Billy Whizz]

Ko 5.30. Also SFA Facebook page

https://www.youtube.com/user/ScotlandNationalTeam

[Since90+2]

Going along tonight. What are we looking at attendance wise? 3kish?

[EH54]

Shaw and Porteous start. Mallan on the bench. Ideal!

[we are hibs]

Its on sfa YouTube channel.

Let's hope Porteous and Shaw don't pick up any knocks.

[YehButNoBut]

Going along tonight. What are we looking at attendance wise? 3kish?

Can also watch using red button on any BBC channel

[HoboHarry]

Angus Gunn playing for England the traitor that he is :greengrin

[green day]

Danny Galbraith co commentator

edit.......is there a guy called Moussaka playing for England ?

[HoboHarry]

Danny Galbraith co commentator

edit.......is there a guy called Moussaka playing for England ?
Don't know but I bet he is a real gyro at his club.......

[Allant1981]

Angus Gunn playing for England the traitor that he is :greengrin

only just turned it on, has he been subbed already?

[HoboHarry]

only just turned it on, has he been subbed already?
No no, I just meant his allegiance is to England, he is still on the bench......

[Allant1981]

No no, I just meant his allegiance is to England, he is still on the bench......

ahh, i see

[Halmyre Hibee]

Nice tackle by Ryan Porteous.

[green day]

Nice tackle by Ryan Porteous.

Doing well so far

[Moulin Yarns]

Danny Galbraith co commentator

edit.......is there a guy called Moussaka playing for England ?

Number 12 has Scottish ancestry name is Wan-Bissaka

[Since90+2]

England are absolutely miles ahead of us, especially in athletism and physicality.

[Halmyre Hibee]

Doing well so far

He is but the England forwards are quite a handful. Big and powerful lads.

[theonlywayisup]

Angus Gunn playing for England the traitor that he is :greengrin

Hardly! He's a boy born in England, with an English mother and a Scottish father. His family are fully engrained in the Norfolk life. The Norwich fans supported the Gunns through all their family problems, which included the death of his sister at the age of two, before Angus had even been born.

I doubt whether Angus ever made it to Scotland that often, with Bryan's family from the North of Scotland.

I'm sure Angus was well supported by the England football structure all through his early life, so it would be a major surprise if he turned his back on England. If he turns out to be traitor, it'll only be if he turns his back on England.

[we are hibs]

The boy Smith at full back is having a nightmare

[HoboHarry]

Hardly! He's a boy born in England, with an English mother and a Scottish father. His family are fully engrained in the Norfolk life. The Norwich fans supported the Gunns through all their family problems, which included the death of his sister at the age of two, before Angus had even been born.

I doubt whether Angus ever made it to Scotland that often, with Bryan's family from the North of Scotland.

I'm sure Angus was well supported by the England football structure all through his early life, so it would be a major surprise if he turned his back on England. If he turns out to be traitor, it'll only be if he turns his back on England.
Yes I know all of that - you did see the smiley face right?

[Billy Whizz]

England are absolutely miles ahead of us, especially in athletism and physicality.

I’m at the game, and they certainly are

[Since90+2]

I’m at the game, and they certainly are

I'm here as well. I know it's 0-0 but it really is like men Vs boys. Worrying how far ahead of us they are.

On the plus side Porteuos has player reasonably well up against Solanke.

[Ringothedog]

Yes I know all of that - you did see the smiley face right?

Obviously not 😀

[G B Young]

Is the 'new' stand looking anywhere near finished yet? Police box still blocking the view of the pitch at one end?

[StevesFamau5]

Is the 'new' stand looking anywhere near finished yet? Police box still blocking the view of the pitch at one end?

It's the plywood backing at the top of the new stand which is hilarious. To be honest it is a half arsed job. The rails down the stairs wobble worse than my stomach after a night out and the seats seem to move in unison when someone stands up, the whole row moves.... Really poor quality all round.

Good to see plenty of Hibs shirts and tops around though

[hibeg]

Can also watch using red button on any BBC channel

Can you? I can’t find it ?..

[Famous Fiver]

If these English guys are bigger and more powerful than Ryan Porteous they must be super specimens.

Ryan is no weakling.

[Since90+2]

If these English guys are bigger and more powerful than Ryan Porteous they must be super specimens.

Ryan is no weakling.

Almost the entire English team are bigger than him.

[Allant1981]

Almost the entire English team are bigger than him.

aye they all seem huge, the captain is a big laddie

[Bishop Hibee]

Is there much can be done about the English players being taller and broader? Watching via the red button and we’re not passing the ball well enough under pressure. No surprise Shaw was subbed at half time as he did nothing admittedly on little service.

[Lendo]

What a strike from England

[brianmc]

Wee Strachan was right, it's genetics

[Since90+2]

Is there much can be done about the English players being taller and broader? Watching via the red button and we’re not passing the ball well enough under pressure. No surprise Shaw was subbed at half time as he did nothing admittedly on little service.

I don't think it's simply the height they are far more athletic in every way. Faster , stronger , better in the air and they have hardly broke sweat.

Very impressed by them.

[Bishop Hibee]

I agree England have been impressive. We need to combat their superior size by quick passing around them. We’ve been nowhere near doing that. Not much to get excited about for the future on this showing,

[Blaster]

Lewis Morgan keeps giving the ball away

Trying to do too much

[hibeg]

Where do I find the game under bbc red button ?

[Blaster]

Where do I find the game under bbc red button ?

I couldn’t so watching on YouTube

[Robbo6-2]

Scotland are only losing 1nil.. You would think reading this thread we were getting pumped 5nil

[Hiber-nation]

Site must have been down for 40 mins....was going to post that Danny Galbraith must have been watching a different game if he thought Lewis Morgan was Scotland's man of the match. Porteous and Bates were the only contenders. Morgan was poor in the 2nd half, gave the ball away numerous times.

[ddoc]

Being Hibs supporters we are pretty aware that a scoreline does not always reflect a teams superiority.

[Bishop Hibee]

I thought Morgan kept trying with nothing up front or in midfield to help him. Agree Bates and Porteous played well.

[04Sauzee]

Site must have been down for 40 mins....was going to post that Danny Galbraith must have been watching a different game if he thought Lewis Morgan was Scotland's man of the match. Porteous and Bates were the only contenders. Morgan was poor in the 2nd half, gave the ball away numerous times.

Never got to see any of the match as was football training with my wee boy , here's a jambos take on Porteous


'Cadden is number 7. Number 8 is Alan Campbell, also of Motherwell.



On a a side note, think Porteous has looked very poor. Had a good tackle but distribution shocking'

[cabbageandribs1875]

didn't watch the game but had a look at the stats


shots

4 v 26

on target

1 v 11



glad i didn't watch

[G B Young]

Scotland are only losing 1nil.. You would think reading this thread we were getting pumped 5nil

I was having a read of the Neil McCann news on the BBC website when I noticed you could actually watch the game online so I tuned in for a wee bit. From what I saw it could have been 5-0 or more. The Scots looked to be defending admirably and Porteous showed some genuine quality, but England were streets ahead - strong but skilful and seemingly playing only at half throttle. The stats showed something like 26 shots on goal for England. Scotland had one shot on target in the entire game.

[Billy Whizz]

Pies 100% better at Tynie than ER

[Since90+2]

Never got to see any of the match as was football training with my wee boy , here's a jambos take on Porteous


'Cadden is number 7. Number 8 is Alan Campbell, also of Motherwell.



On a a side note, think Porteous has looked very poor. Had a good tackle but distribution shocking'

I genuinely can't remember him giving the ball away once.

Considering the amount of possession England had the two centre halfs played well to keep them at bay and were probably the only two to get pass marks.

[greenlex]

Pies 100% better at Tynie than ER

It’ll be the sawdust content

[SideBurns]

I genuinely can't remember him giving the ball away once.

Considering the amount of possession England had the two centre halfs played well to keep them at bay and were probably the only two to get pass marks.

Porteous played forceful, accurate passes along the deck to feet in an attempt to get us moving forward. He overhit a couple but generally his passing was excellent. Also defended well against 2 huge strikers (as did Bates, as you allude to). Problem too often was we had 11 men behind the ball when England attacked, so when we regained possession it was a struggle to get out. The lads competed well, but 2-0 flattered us.

By the way, that new stand wasn't built with the larger, or taller, supporter in mind. Looks like they've just crammed in as many rows and seats as possible.

[bingo70]

Pies 100% better at Tynie than ER

Burgers and hotdogs were practically inedible though.

[BILLYHIBS]

Notice Olly got hooked at halftime anyone able to fill us in on how he played ? :confused:

[bingo70]

Notice Olly got hooked at halftime anyone able to fill us in on how he played ? :confused:

Think he touched the ball twice and gave it away both times.

Not really his fault, just wasn’t the right game for him and he was swamped up there against some absolute monsters.

[SideBurns]

Notice Olly got hooked at halftime anyone able to fill us in on how he played ? :confused:

I missed the first 10 mins (due to standing in a ridiculous queue to get through the turnstiles at the Gorgie End to walk round to the main stand), but after that he hardly kicked the ball, and spent most of his time defending from the front - unfortunately the front was only 30 yards from Scotland's goal! It really was a thankless task for Ollie tonight though.

[Leith's finest]

Pies 100% better at Tynie than ER

How many fans turned up? If it was scott wilson saying it would be 19,000

[Billy Whizz]

How many fans turned up? If it was scott wilson saying it would be 19,000

Just less than 5,000 was the official crowd

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Pitch looks good and conducive to actually playing football.

The derby has the potential to being a cracker

[Ozyhibby]

Didn’t watch it but sounds depressing that our young players don’t seem to know where the weights room at their club is.


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[brog]

It's the plywood backing at the top of the new stand which is hilarious. To be honest it is a half arsed job. The rails down the stairs wobble worse than my stomach after a night out and the seats seem to move in unison when someone stands up, the whole row moves.... Really poor quality all round.

Good to see plenty of Hibs shirts and tops around though


Porteous played forceful, accurate passes along the deck to feet in an attempt to get us moving forward. He overhit a couple but generally his passing was excellent. Also defended well against 2 huge strikers (as did Bates, as you allude to). Problem too often was we had 11 men behind the ball when England attacked, so when we regained possession it was a struggle to get out. The lads competed well, but 2-0 flattered us.

By the way, that new stand wasn't built with the larger, or taller, supporter in mind. Looks like they've just crammed in as many rows and seats as possible.

Agree about Porteous passing & Bates was also ok but put McRorie in trouble a couple of times. Morgan tried hard but kept running down blind alleys but great majority of Scots looked terrified to see the ball. As everyone says English were bigger, stronger, faster & better. 2-0 flattered us considerably.

[Billy Whizz]

Didn’t watch it but sounds depressing that our young players don’t seem to know where the weights room at their club is.


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Doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t fill out when they are older. England are notorious for developing strong players at this level, who don’t make the grade

[bingo70]

Didn’t watch it but sounds depressing that our young players don’t seem to know where the weights room at their club is.


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The English players were unbelievable specimens, they’d give the Saudi under 17s a run for their money when it comes to physicality, I’m not sure we should be comparing our lads against them as I’m sure we compare just fine against the likes of the Scandinavian countries.

I’m maybe clutching at straws a bit but I remember discussing it over the summer that English elite clubs seem to just be producing the same type of player, big strong physical and fast absolute units but where’s the wee tubby guy that has all the ability and creativity and that bit of genius? They seem to be producing a generation of robots, not footballers.

[Ozyhibby]

Doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t fill out when they are older. England are notorious for developing strong players at this level, who don’t make the grade

Not just a case of filling out these days though. It doesn’t just happen by accident. They should be building themselves up long before they get to u21 level. There is no downside to making yourself stronger, more agile and faster. They can’t do much about their height but everything else can and should be improved upon.


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[Ozyhibby]

The English players were unbelievable specimens, they’d give the Saudi under 17s a run for their money when it comes to physicality, I’m not sure we should be comparing our lads against them as I’m sure we compare just fine against the likes of the Scandinavian countries.

I’m maybe clutching at straws a bit but I remember discussing it over the summer that English elite clubs seem to just be producing the same type of player, big strong physical and fast absolute units but where’s the wee tubby guy that has all the ability and creativity and that bit of genius? They seem to be producing a generation of robots, not footballers.

It seems to be working better than our system just now though?


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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I’m maybe clutching at straws a bit but I remember discussing it over the summer that English elite clubs seem to just be producing the same type of player, big strong physical and fast absolute units but where’s the wee tubby guy that has all the ability and creativity and that bit of genius? They seem to be producing a generation of robots, not footballers.
That's generally what I see too, bring in a diminutive ball player trying to reach Hazard type standards to be creative, then fill the team with big Goliaths.

[bingo70]

It seems to be working better than our system just now though?


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Of course it does, they’ve got a population 10x the size of ours though so you’d expect that. The English always seem to have good age groups at this level but when it comes to making the step up and requiring more than just being physically better and stronger than the opposition they tend to struggle. If it was England against Spain or Germany tonight I’d imagine the English would look physically stronger than them too.

The French are quite similar when it comes to producing these big young powerful lads, they seem to be better at also finding the creative smaller players too though, I’m not sure The English have got the balance as right as the French, suppose time will tell though.

[B.H.F.C]

It seems to be working better than our system just now though?


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Don’t think you can compare the Scottish system against the English system given the differnece in resources and number of players they have to pick from.

That’s not to say that our system isn’t failing. There are plenty of small nations who produce better than us.

[Billy Whizz]

Not just a case of filling out these days though. It doesn’t just happen by accident. They should be building themselves up long before they get to u21 level. There is no downside to making yourself stronger, more agile and faster. They can’t do much about their height but everything else can and should be improved upon.


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I’ve no idea Ozy, but England were better all over the pitch

[cabbageandribs1875]

The English players were unbelievable specimens, they’d give the Saudi under 17s a run for their money when it comes to physicality, I’m not sure we should be comparing our lads against them as I’m sure we compare just fine against the likes of the Scandinavian countries.

I’m maybe clutching at straws a bit but I remember discussing it over the summer that English elite clubs seem to just be producing the same type of player, big strong physical and fast absolute units but where’s the wee tubby guy that has all the ability and creativity and that bit of genius? They seem to be producing a generation of robots, not footballers.




absolutely :agree: there's also an SPFL manager who does appear to have a preference for his defenders/midfielders being big strapping laddies

[Winston Ingram]

Miles better beer selection in the fans bar at Tynie

[Ozyhibby]

Of course it does, they’ve got a population 10x the size of ours though so you’d expect that. The English always seem to have good age groups at this level but when it comes to making the step up and requiring more than just being physically better and stronger than the opposition they tend to struggle. If it was England against Spain or Germany tonight I’d imagine the English would look physically stronger than them too.

The French are quite similar when it comes to producing these big young powerful lads, they seem to be better at also finding the creative smaller players too though, I’m not sure The English have got the balance as right as the French, suppose time will tell though.

You can be small and still be well built. The wee guy ****e that plays for France is a midget but still solid.
Working out in the gym doesn’t take anything from a players creative skills. In fact it can only enhance them with an increase in agility. It also helps prevent injury and increase speed.


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[Ozyhibby]

Don’t think you can compare the Scottish system against the English system given the differnece in resources and number of players they have to pick from.

That’s not to say that our system isn’t failing. There are plenty of small nations who produce better than us.

Absolutely, I just mean that they are currently punching their weight in terms of the big nations.
I don’t think we are punching our weight among nations our size just now.


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[Billy Whizz]

Absolutely, I just mean that they are currently punching their weight in terms of the big nations.
I don’t think we are punching our weight among nations our size just now.


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Fair point

[Smartie]

You can be small and still be well built. The wee guy ****e that plays for France is a midget but still solid.
Working out in the gym doesn’t take anything from a players creative skills. In fact it can only enhance them with an increase in agility. It also helps prevent injury and increase speed.


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You have to be careful. Bigger and stronger does not necessarily mean faster or more agile.

Some players need to be big and strong, some need to be quick, some need to have unflappable composure, some need to be able to stick a ball on a sixpence.

I watched more English championship football last season and a lot of it was guff. Lots of highly rated u21 internationalists - big and strong but little guile or skill.

The genetics stuff from Strachan was crap - Strachan himself was a magnificent player who had a highly-decorated, successful and long career. Strachan would be as good a player in the modern game as he was when he was a player.

You need to have a physical presence somewhere in your team, but you don't necessarily need it everywhere. If anything, Scotland have in the past been in denial about how good our youngsters are by playing brawny kids, bullying other teams and winning falsely positive results whilst other countries developed technical players who developed physically when the time was right.

[bingo70]

You can be small and still be well built. The wee guy ****e that plays for France is a midget but still solid.
Working out in the gym doesn’t take anything from a players creative skills. In fact it can only enhance them with an increase in agility. It also helps prevent injury and increase speed.


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Why was there no wee guys in the England side tonight then? None of them struck me as being particularly brilliant footballers, they were just physically swatting the Scotland players aside.

There have been times I think Scottish players have looked skinny wee boys, I think the Scottish players looked physically relatively alright tonight, I just think the English looked abnormally powerful for that age group.

The other elephant in the room that’s never nice to bring up is that for some reason black players seem to be naturally physically stronger and more powerful than your average white guy. I don’t mean to offend anyone with that and I really hope I don’t but it is just an observation. I don’t know why that is the case but it just does seem to be a factor.

[Ozyhibby]

Why was there no wee guys in the England side tonight then? None of them struck me as being particularly brilliant footballers, they were just physically swatting the Scotland players aside.

There have been times I think Scottish players have looked skinny wee boys, I think the Scottish players looked physically relatively alright tonight, I just think the English looked abnormally powerful for that age group.

The other elephant in the room that’s never nice to bring up is that for some reason black players seem to be naturally physically stronger and more powerful than your average white guy. I don’t mean to offend anyone with that and I really hope I don’t but it is just an observation. I don’t know why that is the case but it just does seem to be a factor.

It’s not genetic, they are just not afraid of the gym so much.
The Scottish players are all professional athletes, maybe it’s time the started looking a bit more abnormally powerful like the English lads?


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[bingo70]

It’s not genetic, they are just not afraid of the gym so much.
The Scottish players are all professional athletes, maybe it’s time the started looking a bit more abnormally powerful like the English lads?


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I’d imagine the Scottish players playing for Scottish clubs will have very similar/identical training regimes to the English clubs?

I don’t know what the differences are that lead to the difference in physiques however I’d be surprised if English clubs simply worked their players harder.

Would you rather players spent more time on the pitch practising their technique or in the gym getting more powerful, I suppose that’s the question here, all countries only have the same amount of hours in each day, at this level the gym option seems to pay dividends, making the step up though it appears spending too much time in the gym and not enough on the pitch catches up with you.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The English players were unbelievable specimens, they’d give the Saudi under 17s a run for their money when it comes to physicality, I’m not sure we should be comparing our lads against them as I’m sure we compare just fine against the likes of the Scandinavian countries.

I’m maybe clutching at straws a bit but I remember discussing it over the summer that English elite clubs seem to just be producing the same type of player, big strong physical and fast absolute units but where’s the wee tubby guy that has all the ability and creativity and that bit of genius? They seem to be producing a generation of robots, not footballers.

Makes you wonder if someone like Paul Scholes would have made it in today's climate down south.

[Hiber-nation]

The lad Brooks for Wales is the same build as Oli Shaw and he was different class again tonight. Yes you need to be physically fit but not necessarily built like a tank.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why was there no wee guys in the England side tonight then? None of them struck me as being particularly brilliant footballers, they were just physically swatting the Scotland players aside.

There have been times I think Scottish players have looked skinny wee boys, I think the Scottish players looked physically relatively alright tonight, I just think the English looked abnormally powerful for that age group.

The other elephant in the room that’s never nice to bring up is that for some reason black players seem to be naturally physically stronger and more powerful than your average white guy. I don’t mean to offend anyone with that and I really hope I don’t but it is just an observation. I don’t know why that is the case but it just does seem to be a factor.



i've wanted to point this out for quite a few years now, unfortunately i would most likely word it the wrong way and get slated for being a racist/not PC :rolleyes: just for pointing out the obvious

[Ozyhibby]

I’d imagine the Scottish players playing for Scottish clubs will have very similar/identical training regimes to the English clubs?

I don’t know what the differences are that lead to the difference in physiques however I’d be surprised if English clubs simply worked their players harder.

Would you rather players spent more time on the pitch practising their technique or in the gym getting more powerful, I suppose that’s the question here, all countries only have the same amount of hours in each day, at this level the gym option seems to pay dividends, making the step up though it appears spending too much time in the gym and not enough on the pitch catches up with you.

I’m not so sure. Hibs players spend a lot more time in the gym now than before Leeann and George Craig arrived. And it shows.
I’m not suggesting that pitch training time is sacrificed.
I honestly think that a lot of our clubs leave gym work to the players as they don’t have weight rooms. The very top players spend a lot of time in the gym because they recognise the importance. I think we have still to do that in this country.


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[bingo70]

Makes you wonder if someone like Paul Scholes would have made it in today's climate down south.

Gazza certainly wouldn’t and if Luka Modric was English he would have struggled to make it into that team too.

Not all footballers are the same, some are big, some are wee, some like the gym work and some hate it.

England seemed to have found a generation of players that are all big powerful players that love gym work.......

Or the other kind of player is being missed/lost in the system as they don’t fit the mould of the current side.

[Ozyhibby]

Makes you wonder if someone like Paul Scholes would have made it in today's climate down south.

Probably. He would just be a lot more ripped.[emoji3]


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[Smartie]

I’m not so sure. Hibs players spend a lot more time in the gym now than before Leeann and George Craig arrived. And it shows.
I’m not suggesting that pitch training time is sacrificed.
I honestly think that a lot of our clubs leave gym work to the players as they don’t have weight rooms. The very top players spend a lot of time in the gym because they recognise the importance. I think we have still to do that in this country.


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Do you not have to be pretty careful about the weights work you do when still growing?

John Collins and Darren Jackson derived great benefit from focusing in the weights later in their careers.

[Ozyhibby]

The lad Brooks for Wales is the same build as Oli Shaw and he was different class again tonight. Yes you need to be physically fit but not necessarily built like a tank.

Watching Oli getting pushed about by centre half’s in our league (where centre half’s are not the biggest) is still very frustrating.


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[Ozyhibby]

Do you not have to be pretty careful about the weights work you do when still growing?

John Collins and Darren Jackson derived great benefit from focusing in the weights later in their careers.

Only during your growth spurt which is about 14/15. After that there is nothing stopping you. By the time you are 17 you are usually at full height and can go for it.


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[Since90+2]

Think it's wrong to suggest the English were all just big robotic athletes. They were also very good on the ball and were technically miles ahead of us.

Unfortunately they were alot better than us in all areas of the game.

[superfurryhibby]

England were pretty impressive all round. They were quick and very good technically, as well as strong and powerful. 33 games says all you need to know about how good they are.

Shaw actually did ok, I thought he had some good touches and held on to the ball quite well at times. Porteous and Bates were both pretty impressive, especially given how much pressure they were under.
A few overhit passes from Ryan, but he competed well.

Morgan won man of the of the match. He started off well, but appeared a bit casual on the ball at times and was blowing out his erchie with half and hour to play.

[MWHIBBIES]

As if Scotland and Hibs don't have fitness and conditioning coaches that know what they're doing. Gaining mustle isn't as simple as being scared of the gym or not.
It's pretty clear to anyone who knows anything about it that Oli Shaw has gained mustle since is debut, especially in his legs. He's also grown a decent bit in the last 3 years, maybe Hibs are wary of him injuring himself. Maybe they want him smaller and quicker?

The best players in the world weren't all mustle at 20, it's about learning how to play football at this age.

McGregor has gained alot of mustle in the last 2 years, Hanlon hasn't. Ronaldo has gained significant mustle as he got older, Messi hasn't. There isn't a right or wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

As if Scotland and Hibs don't have fitness and conditioning coaches that know what they're doing. Gaining mustle isn't as simple as being scared of the gym or not.
It's pretty clear to anyone who knows anything about it that Oli Shaw has gained mustle since is debut, especially in his legs. He's also grown a decent bit in the last 3 years, maybe Hibs are wary of him injuring himself. Maybe they want him smaller and quicker?

The best players in the world weren't all mustle at 20, it's about learning how to play football at this age.

McGregor has gained alot of mustle in the last 2 years, Hanlon hasn't. Ronaldo has gained significant mustle as he got older, Messi hasn't. There isn't a right or wrong.

Hanlon and Messi are pretty solid these days. I agree Hibs know what they are doing and Shaw has gained a bit since last season. The bit about smaller and quicker is wrong though. The right training regime will not result in any loss of speed and in fact should make him quicker. A good strength and conditioning programme also reduces injuries. Shaw is going in the right direction and Hibs are better than most clubs in Scotland now.



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[Smartie]

Hanlon and Messi are pretty solid these days. I agree Hibs know what they are doing and Shaw has gained a bit since last season. The bit about smaller and quicker is wrong though. The right training regime will not result in any loss of speed and in fact should make him quicker. A good strength and conditioning programme also reduces injuries. Shaw is going in the right direction and Hibs are better than most clubs in Scotland now.



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I think Boyle and Hanlon have lost pace. Their added bulk has helped them in other ways and they are both better players than they were a couple of years ago but it is a risk bringing about change that might make players slower.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Boyle and Hanlon have lost pace. Their added bulk has helped them in other ways and they are both better players than they were a couple of years ago but it is a risk bringing about change that might make players slower.

I haven’t noticed any loss of pace in either. A good strength and conditioning regime should increase a players pace. Although at Hanlons age I would expect him to lose a bit of pace now anyway.
It’s a myth that gaining strength makes you slower. Look at the speed of the guys playing in England, and they are all bigger than most Scottish players.


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[SChibs]

I haven’t noticed any loss of pace in either. A good strength and conditioning regime should increase a players pace. Although at Hanlons age I would expect him to lose a bit of pace now anyway.
It’s a myth that gaining strength makes you slower. Look at the speed of the guys playing in England, and they are all bigger than most Scottish players.


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Gaining size and strength are 2 different things and you train for them in the gym in different ways. If players were to bulk up they would certainly lose some of their pace.

[Ozyhibby]

Gaining size and strength are 2 different things and you train for them in the gym in different ways. If players were to bulk up they would certainly lose some of their pace.

There are some pretty bulky 100m sprinters out there. I’m not talking about them getting huge anyway.
I don’t want to keep going on about it, especially as I think Hibs are doing this pretty well but I definitely think there needs to be improvement in the Scottish game on this front.
I think if Scottish players want to earn the big money in England they need to be a lot fitter and stronger than they are.


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[SChibs]

There are some pretty bulky 100m sprinters out there. I’m not talking about them getting huge anyway.
I don’t want to keep going on about it, especially as I think Hibs are doing this pretty well but I definitely think there needs to be improvement in the Scottish game on this front.
I think if Scottish players want to earn the big money in England they need to be a lot fitter and stronger than they are.


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The sprinters train to get faster every day of their lives, that's the difference between them getting faster and a footballer who can't dedicate that time as they need to focus on other things too

[CockneyRebel]

Think it's wrong to suggest the English were all just big robotic athletes. They were also very good on the ball and were technically miles ahead of us.

Unfortunately they were a lot better than us in all areas of the game.



Sanity

[CockneyRebel]

England were pretty impressive all round. They were quick and very good technically, as well as strong and powerful. 33 games says all you need to know about how good they are.

Shaw actually did ok, I thought he had some good touches and held on to the ball quite well at times. Porteous and Bates were both pretty impressive, especially given how much pressure they were under.
A few overhit passes from Ryan, but he competed well.

Morgan won man of the of the match. He started off well, but appeared a bit casual on the ball at times and was blowing out his erchie with half and hour to play.


More sanity - nothing wrong in looking for positives but just repeating BIG and ROBOTS and nowt else is not the way to address any shortcomings. All of the young England sides have won major tournaments over the last few years playing against the European elites. Pure brawn or brute power wouldn't achieve that without some guile and technique. Granted they won't all make it at the top level but there are a lot of good players in there. I don't know the answers to address this but I'm sure it needs to be a very wide approach. All of the British national team hierarchies have looked abroad to the most successful nations, seeking a blueprint for improvement but not seen any evidence of following up on this in Scotland. I know Bertie didn't work out but at least it was fresh approach - still too many dinosaurs running the game IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

Just passed the England team at the Airport and they are not even all that big. A few tall ones though. The skin tight white tops probably shows off their muscle more.


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[basehibby]

It’s not genetic, they are just not afraid of the gym so much.
The Scottish players are all professional athletes, maybe it’s time the started looking a bit more abnormally powerful like the English lads?


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What utter drivel - of course there is a genetic factor.

There are certain parts of East Africa (Somalia, Kenya) that habitually produce amazing distance runners. There are other African nations that produce some very big guys - eg ever heard of the Massai??? Just about every one of them over six feet. This is all down to genetics - just as it's down to genetics that northern Europeans have a better capacity to withstand cold than Africans as a rule. This is down to skin colour (dark surfaces cool down quicker than light surfaces) which is, in turn, down to genetics.

Therefore the preponderance of big units in the English team (most of them black I am guessing) is probably down to a greater proportion of West Indian imigrants which in turn will mean a greater share of West African genes - you know - the ones Ussain Bolt has???

It doesn't mean it's a particularly good idea for the English coaches to pack their U21 teams with big lads at the expense of perhaps more skillful candidates - and neither does it mean that the Scots kids should not work a lot harder on their physiques so as to compete. But to suggest it's "not genetic" is a wilful ignorance of the facts.

[Diclonius]

When was the last time Scotland beat England at any level? Whenever one of these games comes up we always seem to get battered.

[Ozyhibby]

What utter drivel - of course there is a genetic factor.

There are certain parts of East Africa (Somalia, Kenya) that habitually produce amazing distance runners. There are other African nations that produce some very big guys - eg ever heard of the Massai??? Just about every one of them over six feet. This is all down to genetics - just as it's down to genetics that northern Europeans have a better capacity to withstand cold than Africans as a rule. This is down to skin colour (dark surfaces cool down quicker than light surfaces) which is, in turn, down to genetics.

Therefore the preponderance of big units in the English team (most of them black I am guessing) is probably down to a greater proportion of West Indian imigrants which in turn will mean a greater share of West African genes - you know - the ones Ussain Bolt has???

It doesn't mean it's a particularly good idea for the English coaches to pack their U21 teams with big lads at the expense of perhaps more skillful candidates - and neither does it mean that the Scots kids should not work a lot harder on their physiques so as to compete. But to suggest it's "not genetic" is a wilful ignorance of the facts.

I knew all that when I was writing it but was too lazy to go into it. What I should have said is that there are some genetic advantages but they can be overcome. My point is that I don’t think the Scottish lads are getting as fit and strong as they could be, without comparing them with others.


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[IGRIGI]

When was the last time Scotland beat England at any level? Whenever one of these games comes up we always seem to get battered.

1982 at u21 level.

[theonlywayisup]

1982 at u21 level.

At full international level, it just have been the Don Hutchinson game at Wembley in 1999

[Smartie]

1982 at u21 level.

Senior level Don Hutchison goal at Wembley in 1999 or so, no?

[basehibby]

I knew all that when I was writing it but was too lazy to go into it. What I should have said is that there are some genetic advantages but they can be overcome. My point is that I don’t think the Scottish lads are getting as fit and strong as they could be, without comparing them with others.


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OK - just gets my goat when reality gets chucked out the window for fear of offending overly sensitive PC sensibilities.

It is not racist in any way to point out that some (not all) African gene lines produce very powerful athletic physiques - just as it is not at all racist to say that ginger people get sun burnt more easily. It's just a fact.

NB - your point about some Scottish lads not maximising their physical potential is totally valid. Our very own Riordan and O'Connor were great examples of guys that could have gone further if they'd worked harder on their physiques and less on the partying. Of course that's not always the case. Lewis Stevenson is a wee guy that competes very well physically and I would wager that he's put many hundreds of hours of gymwork into achieving that and continues to do so daily.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

OK - just gets my goat when reality gets chucked out the window for fear of offending overly sensitive PC sensibilities.

It is not racist in any way to point out that some (not all) African gene lines produce very powerful athletic physiques - just as it is not at all racist to say that ginger people get sun burnt more easily. It's just a fact.

NB - your point about some Scottish lads not maximising their physical potential is totally valid. Our very own Riordan and O'Connor were great examples of guys that could have gone further if they'd worked harder on their physiques and less on the partying. Of course that's not always the case. Lewis Stevenson is a wee guy that competes very well physically and I would wager that he's put many hundreds of hours of gymwork into achieving that and continues to do so daily.


It is not racist to suggest that some gene lines produce a higher proportion of people of a certain size or shape, of course they do, and it's reasonable to think that being more likely to be a certain size & shape can give you an advantage in certain sports. Unfortunately the nuances of that are often lost, and people come out with daft statements that assume all black people are the same and have an inherent advantage in terms of physicality. Which they aren't and don't.

[Famous Fiver]

Both McGinn and McGeouch are doing OK in England.

Don't think you could describe either of them as being tall and powerful.

Exceptions to every rule, I suppose.

[Since90+2]

Both McGinn and McGeouch are doing OK in England.

Don't think you could describe either of them as being tall and powerful.

Exceptions to every rule, I suppose.

McGinn is very athletic and powerful with a terrific engine. He certainly stood out in that area whilst playing in Scotland.

[MWHIBBIES]

Both McGinn and McGeouch are doing OK in England.

Don't think you could describe either of them as being tall and powerful.

Exceptions to every rule, I suppose.
McGinn is near 6ft and very powerful, his biggest attributes are his physical ones. He's unstoppable when he gets going.

[Unseen work]

How on earth is Mallan not starting for the 21’s!!!! He has scored 9 goals from midfield this season for the team that are sitting 2nd!

As far at the physicality argument goes, part of it is down to genetics. But imo its more mentality driven aswell.

English clubs have all the facilities and get it in their heads a lot earlier imo and work them harder. Scotland seems more of a train twice a week and the fitness consists of running them into the ground.

England produce big, powerful and fast players. In Scotland you’re either skinny, weak and fast or big and slow imo. Very few players have both.

[CallumLaidlaw]

How on earth is Mallan not starting for the 21’s!!!! He has scored 9 goals from midfield this season for the team that are sitting 2nd!

As far at the physicality argument goes, part of it is down to genetics. But imo its more mentality driven aswell.

English clubs have all the facilities and get it in their heads a lot earlier imo and work them harder. Scotland seems more of a train twice a week and the fitness consists of running them into the ground.

England produce big, powerful and fast players. In Scotland you’re either skinny, weak and fast or big and slow imo. Very few players have both.

Maybe seeing as it was pretty much a nothing game, Gemmill agreed to leave him out... 🤷*♂️


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[Since90+2]

How on earth is Mallan not starting for the 21’s!!!! He has scored 9 goals from midfield this season for the team that are sitting 2nd!

As far at the physicality argument goes, part of it is down to genetics. But imo its more mentality driven aswell.

English clubs have all the facilities and get it in their heads a lot earlier imo and work them harder. Scotland seems more of a train twice a week and the fitness consists of running them into the ground.

England produce big, powerful and fast players. In Scotland you’re either skinny, weak and fast or big and slow imo. Very few players have both.

Mallan played the full game against the Ukraine just a few days prior and to be honest that was the main game. Last nights game was meaningless in terms of qualification so maybe Gemmill wanted to give other players a run out.

If we had a chance of qualifying I think Mallan would have played though to be honest as good a played as he is I doubt he'd have made much of a difference.

[Kato]

Genetics do count on a personal and in a more widespread way. There's also genetic potential and the failure to reach that potential do to societal reasons. So what I'm asking is what do people think about dietary reasons for Scots footballers looking l like they come from scrawny botland rather Bonnie Scotland? Our collective diet is notoriously and factually rotten.

[Ozyhibby]

McGinn is near 6ft and very powerful, his biggest attributes are his physical ones. He's unstoppable when he gets going.

Machine is a great example. He has clearly deliberately work hard to get in the shape he is (his brothers are nowhere near as fit) and he is getting the rewards. You don’t get to be his size and shape just playing football.


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[calumhibee1]

Machine is a great example. He has clearly deliberately work hard to get in the shape he is (his brothers are nowhere near as fit) and he is getting the rewards. You don’t get to be his size and shape just playing football.


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Stephen McGinn is also an absolute power house. Just not as good a football player.

[Smartie]

Genetics do count on a personal and in a more widespread way. There's also genetic potential and the failure to reach that potential do to societal reasons. So what I'm asking is what do people think about dietary reasons for Scots footballers looking l like they come from scrawny botland rather Bonnie Scotland? Our collective diet is notoriously and factually rotten.

That is true, but I wonder how well-nourished the fairly high proportion of the world's best players who grew up in favelas and slums were?

[Kato]

That is true, but I wonder how well-nourished the fairly high proportion of the world's best players who grew up in favelas and slums were?


Fair point, but there's something to be said for plain fare, post war Scotland produced more than a smattering of big laddies and hard bassas on a diet far narrower than is available today. Nourishment is a good word to use - does Scottish society have a more nourishing diet than it did when we produced players from 1945-onwards? "Plenty" isn't the same as a good diet, can be quite the opposite. I remember my Mum and aunties going on "a diet" in the 70's and they were allowed two teaspoons of sugar a day. Bare in mind they were actively trying to loose weight but todays world your likely to find two teaspoons in a supermarket sandwich.

[500miles]

Stephen McGinn is also an absolute power house. Just not as good a football player.

He's a good player. Obviously not quite John's level, but would have taken him as a replacement if we were looking to play a similar system. SJM struggled against him IIRC.