Loyalty Points

[Jackh]

Bring them back. Simple as.

[linlithgowhibbie]

Bring them back. Simple as.

Hear hear! But it will never happen:agree:

[Up The Bracket]

They took them away because ticket office staff were being abused, by that logic should we abuse the ticket office staff so much so that they have to bring them back?

[Kojock]

Bring them back. Simple as.

LD doesn't like the loyalty point system and won't even discuss it never mind reintroduce it.

[Kojock]

They took them away because ticket office staff were being abused, by that logic should we abuse the ticket office staff so much so that they have to bring them back?

Why not deal with the individuals abusing the staff rather than punish folk by removing the LP scheme.

[The Modfather]

Just give all tickets to Hermit Crab and he can decide who is worthy of a ticket or not :devil:

[hibbyfraelibby]

Not going to happen...why should the loyalists get all the best tickets when they already claim to have tht best tunes?

[H18 SFR]

Just give all tickets to Hermit Crab and he can decide who is worthy of a ticket or not :devil:

He'd run the show.

[Hermit Crab]

They took them away because ticket office staff were being abused, by that logic should we abuse the ticket office staff so much so that they have to bring them back?


The staff were abused (unacceptable) because some fans didn't understand fully how the LP system worked, there was fans queuing for tickets for bigger games like hearts away and then getting to the front to be told that one or more of their group didn't have enough loyalty points therefore couldn't get a ticket. Then there was the HSL fiasco which totally ruined it.

I fully support bringing LP's back but its a shame our CEO point blank refuses to discuss it.

[BegbieHSC]

Controversial point:

i dont think we should bring loyalty points.

I appreciate that many will disagree, but our club should be an open shop to our 8,000 new season ticket holder since 2016. Giving priority to that 8,000 core for away games won’t enthuse, and we need newbies to be as welcome as possible, and have them renew for years to come. Locking newbies out of our biggest away games would be the wrong move imo.

[Speedy]

The staff were abused (unacceptable) because some fans didn't understand fully how the LP system worked, there was fans queuing for tickets for bigger games like hearts away and then getting to the front to be told that one or more of their group didn't have enough loyalty points therefore couldn't get a ticket. Then there was the HSL fiasco which totally ruined it.

I fully support bringing LP's back but its a shame our CEO point blank refuses to discuss it.

I'm not surprised she won't discuss it.

A lot of people view the HSL points ruining it but my view that there is nothing wrong with incentivising something that brings cash into the club. I accept it caused friction and disagreement but that existed to an extent anyway.

People will ultimately disagree and it seems the hassle of resolving that isn't offset by any benefits.

[Col_0762]

Controversial point:

i dont think we should bring loyalty points.

I appreciate that many will disagree, but our club should be an open shop to our 8,000 new season ticket holder since 2016. Giving priority to that 8,000 core for away games won’t enthuse, and we need newbies to be as welcome as possible, and have them renew for years to come. Locking newbies out of our biggest away games would be the wrong move imo.

They wouldn’t be locked out though. If the went to enough away games, they would accumulate enough points to try for the big games.

[Kojock]

Controversial point:

i dont think we should bring loyalty points.

I appreciate that many will disagree, but our club should be an open shop to our 8,000 new season ticket holder since 2016. Giving priority to that 8,000 core for away games won’t enthuse, and we need newbies to be as welcome as possible, and have them renew for years to come. Locking newbies out of our biggest away games would be the wrong move imo.

I've been watching Hibs since the 60s through thick and thin and boy have I watched some crap during that time. Now that better times are with us I should lose out to some newbie?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Locking newbies out of our biggest away games would be the wrong move imo.

We have 18 away games in the league a season, they can come to the 12 that aren't against Hearts or the Old Firm, and will absolutely build up enough points to get a ticket for any of those games.

We have a loyal away support of about 1000 fans, they should be given first refusal on the tickets for the biggest away games. That is obviously the fairest way to run things.

Combined with this, Hibs need to work on increasing our allocation at Parkhead and Ibrox while we're riding this crest of a wave. Although, let's be honest, we may well soon be back to taking 500 through and not selling out the pitifully small allocation we're given.

These 'newbies' are not remotely locked out, provided they aren't expecting to just swan up to Tynecastle as their only away game of the season.

[Carheenlea]

There are fair schemes implemented by many clubs which also factor in new attendees, but the club have made it clear that they would rather not go back down this road which is unfortunate.
Ticket scrambles for big away games are a consequence of a successful club, and if we plan on staying one, a Loyalty Scheme is really going to have to be looked at again, while frustration and complaints continue with each subsequent ticket scramble.

[kaimendhibs]

Should never have got rid of the Loyalty point scheme.

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[IWasThere2016]

I don't like such schemes. I have a wallet full of store loyalty cards - not to mentions apps on the dog n bone - and use very few tbh. I'd rather see lower prices/offers etc and spend accordingly.

I would however like to see a scheme whereby I pay in an annual lump sum - say £250 to £500 - and I call down on it from tickets, merchandise etc.. and if I don't use it, I lose it e.g. Hibs keep it and benefit.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I don't like such schemes. I have a wallet full of store loyalty cards - not to mentions apps on the dog n bone - and use very few tbh.

That's...um...that's not quite this loyalty points scheme works?...

[Since90+2]

Groundhog Day.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Not for me. Season ticket holders first (to incentivise buying a St) and then General Sale.

In my opinion it would be a mistake to get to a position whereby non season ticket holders are effectively locked out of getting a ticket for away matches.

I know in my case, it was travelling to a few away matches as a non season ticket holder and experiencing the away support that convinced me to get a full season ticket.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Introduce attendance points.

The more games you attend, the better chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

So very simple

[0762]

The staff were abused (unacceptable) because some fans didn't understand fully how the LP system worked, there was fans queuing for tickets for bigger games like hearts away and then getting to the front to be told that one or more of their group didn't have enough loyalty points therefore couldn't get a ticket. Then there was the HSL fiasco which totally ruined it.

I fully support bringing LP's back but its a shame our CEO point blank refuses to discuss it.

Fully agree with you Hermit Crab.

[WhileTheChief..]

I've been watching Hibs since the 60s through thick and thin and boy have I watched some crap during that time. Now that better times are with us I should lose out to some newbie?

Nope. But the newbie should have as much chance as you of getting a ticket.

One of you might lose out but thems the breaks.

You can’t really think that you should be guaranteed a ticket whenever you want just cause you’ve been going since the 60s?

So basically anyone born from the 70s onwards is behind you in the queue for tickets? Really?!

[HibeeHibernian4]

In my opinion it would be a mistake to get to a position whereby non season ticket holders are effectively locked out of getting a ticket for away matches.

They aren't locked out of getting a ticket under a loyalty points system. For 8 out of 11 grounds, we almost never, ever sell out our allocation so they'd be absolute fine to go to them. For Ibrox and Parkhead, while we're currently doing well, they might struggle, but we may well revert back to not selling our allocation in the future. For Tynecastle, there are 1,000-2,000 fans who go to away games regularly, if they are taken care of, there are still 2,000 tickets for season ticket holders and then non season ticket holders too if it came to it.

So now that we've established that nobody's locked out, are you still against loyalty points?


Introduce attendance points.

The more games you attend, the better chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

So very simple

This is absolutely what needs to happen and that should be the end of things, unfortunately Dempster won't hear of it.

[SChibs]

I struggle to understand why people feel it's fair for someone who goes to no away games but has a season ticket has the same chances of getting a ticket as somebody who goes to every away game and has a season ticket

[Hermit Crab]

Nope. But the newbie should have as much chance as you of getting a ticket.

One of you might lose out but thems the breaks.

You can’t really think that you should be guaranteed a ticket whenever you want just cause you’ve been going since the 60s?

So basically anyone born from the 70s onwards is behind you in the queue for tickets? Really?!


Why should someone who's been going to all the games for 50+ years miss out on a big game to some Johnny come lately who has got their first season ticket because Hibs are doing well and they want to jump on the band wagon?

[cabbageandribs1875]

if our crowds go back down to below 10k again the club will introduce a ground-breaking new scheme, this new scheme will probably be called something like, ermm... 'loyalty points' :agree:

[SirDavidsNapper]

I've been watching Hibs since the 60s through thick and thin and boy have I watched some crap during that time. Now that better times are with us I should lose out to some newbie?

Should potential new fans be turned away to make way for folk that have seen it and done it? If a newbie wants to come and watch Hibs it's as much their club as it is yours.

[Hermit Crab]

Should potential new fans be turned away to make way for folk that have seen it and done it? If a newbie wants to come and watch Hibs it's as much their club as it is yours.


No of course not but they'd have to attend the lesser attractive away games to build up their points like everyone else.

[Speedy]

Introduce attendance points.

The more games you attend, the better chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

So very simple

Is that "attendance" as in tickets sold, or is it bums on seats turning up to watch? :duck:

For what it's worth I think that's a fair approach. However, taking Kojack's post as an example, not everyone would agree so it's maybe not as simple as it seems.

Then there's also the argument that it's not necessarily the most lucrative for the club. Depends whether the priority is to bring in more money to improve the team, or whether it's to allocate tickets in the 'fairest' way. Again, people will disagree what the scheme is trying to achieve.

[Kojock]

Should potential new fans be turned away to make way for folk that have seen it and done it? If a newbie wants to come and watch Hibs it's as much their club as it is yours.

They are more than welcome to come along and under a loyalty point scheme the more games they attend the better chance they have of getting a ticket for low allocation games. It's not rocket science.

[cabbageandribs1875]

loyalty points should be dished out at the end of each season, a walk-up that attends every home game gives the club far more money that a ST holder, who's the more loyal fan then :devil: away ST holders don't pay money towards the running of the club :idea:

[WhileTheChief..]

Why should someone who's been going to all the games for 50+ years miss out on a big game to some Johnny come lately who has got their first season ticket because Hibs are doing well and they want to jump on the band wagon?

I’m not saying they should.

I’m saying everyone should be treated equally with an equal chance of getting a ticket.

I really don’t see how anyone can complain about that?

If we take your position to extremes, we’d then be waiting on older fans dying off before anyone else gets to go!!

[HibeeHibernian4]

I’m not saying they should.

I’m saying everyone should be treated equally with an equal chance of getting a ticket.

I really don’t see how anyone can complain about that?

Because the more of the 'unattractive' away games you go to, the more right you have to first refusal of a big game away ticket?

[Hermit Crab]

I’m not saying they should.

I’m saying everyone should be treated equally with an equal chance of getting a ticket.

I really don’t see how anyone can complain about that?

If we take your position to extremes, we’d then be waiting on older fans dying off before anyone else gets to go!!


Attending the less attractive away matches is the only way to build up your points to make you eligible for the bigger, lower allocation away games. Every club that has a LP does it that way. Takes time but its the fairest way.

[SquashedFrogg]

I've been watching Hibs since the 60s through thick and thin and boy have I watched some crap during that time. Now that better times are with us I should lose out to some newbie?

That's the spirit. So why should a 'newbie' lose out to someone who has had more that their fair share of suffering?

Suffering should be shared equally.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Attending the less attractive away matches is the only way to build up your points to make you eligible for the bigger, lower allocation away games. Every club that has a LP does it that way. Takes time but its the fairest way.
Exactly. The first year in the Championship I only missed one away game all season (due to a holiday) but missed out on tickets to the game at Ibrox when Lewy scored because a whole bunch of people decided that Hibs were worth watching by that point.

Having spent the time and money travelling to watch us lose against QOTS, Alloa, Raith etc as well as midweek trips to Ross County and Dumbarton that season I felt it was a bit unfair that I ended up missing one of the few real highlights of that season

[Keith_M]

There should be a Loyalty Points system based on how many Hibs Tatoos you have, with double points given for any in 'painful' regions.

[mutley]

This is just one of these things, that you will never get a large fan base all agreeing on what system is best, purely because everyone will want to put their own personal circumstances as a priority.

We have all seen things like people queuing for hours and then buying for up to 10 people, people logging on with different accounts on several different computers/devices when trying to get in the online purchase queue.

But it all boils down to the no matter what system you do, what loyalty scheme you come up with, 16,000 fans fighting over 3000 tickets, there will always be 13,000 that will miss out.

The the argument " I've has a ST for X number of years" and " well I have a ST and AST" and "but I buy a walk up ticket to all home and away" etc the list goes on.

Yes, I do think that loyalty should be rewarded in some way, but now we have 13,500 ST holders, not everyone will fit in the away end at the PBS.

[My_Wife_Camille]

This is just one of these things, that you will never get a large fan base all agreeing on what system is best, purely because everyone will want to put their own personal circumstances as a priority.

We have all seen things like people queuing for hours and then buying for up to 10 people, people logging on with different accounts on several different computers/devices when trying to get in the online purchase queue.

But it all boils down to the no matter what system you do, what loyalty scheme you come up with, 16,000 fans fighting over 3000 tickets, there will always be 13,000 that will miss out.

The the argument " I've has a ST for X number of years" and " well I have a ST and AST" and "but I buy a walk up ticket to all home and away" etc the list goes on.

Yes, I do think that loyalty should be rewarded in some way, but now we have 13,500 ST holders, not everyone will fit in the away end at the PBS.
I get what you mean but the bit in bold isn't always true. People like Hermit Crab for example already have an away season ticket so they are sorted for all away games as it is so moving back to loyalty points wouldn't benefit him any further but still he's one of the louder advocates for the system.

I fall into the same bracket, I'll get a ticket for any away game but still would rather see loyalty points brought back because I think it's fairer.

[hibsforeurope]

Any loyalty points Scheme can’t diminish the value of a season ticket. Any points scheme should only be for season ticket Holders to promote the clubs main stream of income.

[Hermit Crab]

I get what you mean but the bit in bold isn't always true. People like Hermit Crab for example already have an away season ticket so they are sorted for all away games as it is so moving back to loyalty points wouldn't benefit him any further but still he's one of the louder advocates for the system.

I fall into the same bracket, I'll get a ticket for any away game but still would rather see loyalty points brought back because I think it's fairer.


I would fully support a LP system returning. It really is simple to do. Ask Hearts.

[H18 SFR]

I like the idea of an Away Season Ticket for those who are keen to commit to every away game then as a secondary way of allocating tickets a loyalty scheme.

I've got an away season ticket this year and it's flawless (apart from the restricted view nonsense lol).

[CapitalGreen]

I would fully support a LP system returning. It really is simple to do. Ask Hearts.

This, implement the system that Hearts use and have been using for what must be nearly 10 years.

[Winston Ingram]

Bring them back. Simple as.

Yep. I’m not even going to waste my time trying to get a ticket for the Derby at the end of the month.

[mutley]

This, implement the system that Hearts use and have been using for what must be nearly 10 years.


This.
I hate to admit when they do something right, but their scheme is easy and straight forward.. I think the one that we tried was too complicated( I mean that by the way you earned points)

[Dancehibs]

This.
I hate to admit when they do something right, but their scheme is easy and straight forward.. I think the one that we tried was too complicated( I mean that by the way you earned points)

Did you not get allocated points for buying season ticket and attending games?

For home games were crowds are very low and season tickets are not valid eg league cup games, for me this is an opportunity to add bonus points for loyalty

[Hermit Crab]

If Hibs wanted to bring in the LP system for the 2019/20 season then heres how easy it is.

If you had a 18/19 season ticket coupled with an away season ticket this season and renew then you start of on 60 points.

If you just had an 18/19 season ticket and renew you start with 50 points.

If you're a first time purchaser of a season ticket in 2019/20 season then you get 40 points.

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Away games

Loyalty points for away games issued as follows (depending on league participants) and depending whether tickets are issued by the respective clubs although most clubs no longer accommodate PATG without tickets going on sale first.

Hearts, Celtic, Rangers away, 1 loyalty point for big away games smaller allocation (hearts isn't exactly away so 1 loyalty point)

Livingston, Motherwell, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and Dundee 2 points, fairly easy to get to with large away allocations but can be unattractive to fans so more loyalty points for attending these lesser attractive games.

Aberdeen away, 3 loyalty points, long distance to travel, unattractive in the winter and usually tv games but incentive to go with more points for attending.

If Ross County or Inverness come up then they would be 3 point matches going by distance and and attractiveness of the fixtures.

Cup away games would depend on the draw and allocation. Use the method above regarding distance as a general rule of thumb.
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Home games

Points issued in the following way for home games.

Cup matches that season Ticket Holders attend gets you 1 loyalty point if you buy a ticket through the website, call centre or ticket office getting the ticket using their client reference number. (NB if you buy multiple tickets for friends using you client ref then you still only get 1 point for your actual ticket for your seat.

Walk ups (PATG) 0 loyalty points, I know it seems harsh but the incentive is there to buy in advance to get points, tickets can be bought online minutes before kick off and scanned from phones at turnstiles.

No retrospective adding of points etc.

No points for pies, clubs shop crap and pints behind the goals. Points are for tickets only.

At the end of the season everyone gets 50 knocked off their total and he scheme begins again.

[WhileTheChief..]

Attending the less attractive away matches is the only way to build up your points to make you eligible for the bigger, lower allocation away games. Every club that has a LP does it that way. Takes time but its the fairest way.

I get your point.

However, let’s say for example that our first game of the season is away to Rangers.

800 Hibs fans get their tickets and some loyalty points. Let’s say you and I both missed out for whatever reason.

We have now got zero chance of amassing the same number of points as the 800 meaning that we won’t ever be able to get another ticket for Ibrox.

In essence, these 800 are the only ones that will be guaranteed tickets for the next match at Ibrox

That just doesn’t seem fair to me, or for you!!

[SChibs]

If Hibs wanted to bring in the LP system for the 2019/20 season then heres how easy it is.

If you had a 18/19 season ticket coupled with an away season ticket this season and renew then you start of on 60 points.

If you just had an 18/19 season ticket and renew you start with 50 points.

If you're a first time purchaser of a season ticket in 2019/20 season then you get 40 points.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Away games

Loyalty points for away games issued as follows (depending on league participants) and depending whether tickets are issued by the respective clubs although most clubs no longer accommodate PATG without tickets going on sale first.

Hearts, Celtic, Rangers away, 1 loyalty point for big away games smaller allocation (hearts isn't exactly away so 1 loyalty point)

Livingston, Motherwell, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and Dundee 2 points, fairly easy to get to with large away allocations but can be unattractive to fans so more loyalty points for attending these lesser attractive games.

Aberdeen away, 3 loyalty points, long distance to travel, unattractive in the winter and usually tv games but incentive to go with more points for attending.

If Ross County or Inverness come up then they would be 3 point matches going by distance and and attractiveness of the fixtures.

Cup away games would depend on the draw and allocation. Use the method above regarding distance as a general rule of thumb.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home games

Points issued in the following way for home games.

Cup matches that season Ticket Holders attend gets you 1 loyalty point if you buy a ticket through the website, call centre or ticket office getting the ticket using their client reference number. (NB if you buy multiple tickets for friends using you client ref then you still only get 1 point for your actual ticket for your seat.

Walk ups (PATG) 0 loyalty points, I know it seems harsh but the incentive is there to buy in advance to get points, tickets can be bought online minutes before kick off and scanned from phones at turnstiles.

No retrospective adding of points etc.

No points for pies, clubs shop crap and pints behind the goals. Points are for tickets only.

At the end of the season everyone gets 50 knocked off their total and he scheme begins again.

Similar to my idea. I don't see how people don't seem this as fair.

[Hermit Crab]

I get your point.

However, let’s say for example that our first game of the season is away to Rangers.

800 Hibs fans get their tickets and some loyalty points. Let’s say you and I both missed out for whatever reason.

We have now got zero chance of amassing the same number of points as the 800 meaning that we won’t ever be able to get another ticket for Ibrox.

In essence, these 800 are the only ones that will be guaranteed tickets for the next match at Ibrox

That just doesn’t seem fair to me, or for you!!


You're relying on those same 800 fans buying tickets for every away game and home cup game where points are issued until the next Ibrox match which is unlikely. You have to start somewhere though but in the long run it is a fair system.

[SChibs]

I get your point.

However, let’s say for example that our first game of the season is away to Rangers.

800 Hibs fans get their tickets and some loyalty points. Let’s say you and I both missed out for whatever reason.

We have now got zero chance of amassing the same number of points as the 800 meaning that we won’t ever be able to get another ticket for Ibrox.

In essence, these 800 are the only ones that will be guaranteed tickets for the next match at Ibrox

That just doesn’t seem fair to me, or for you!!

Simple way to fix that is to not award loyalty points for Celtic, rangers and hearts where demand is larger that supply.

[Hermit Crab]

Similar to my idea. I don't see how people don't seem this as fair.


Its so simple but Hibs made it so difficult.

[Hermit Crab]

Simple way to fix that is to not award loyalty points for Celtic, rangers and hearts where demand is larger that supply.


Yeah, that could work as well. Only give out points for less attractive away fixtures.

[Ozyhibby]

Leeann is very smart and will never devalue the season ticket again. It’s the most important revenue generator for the club and she wants to keep it that way.


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[Dancehibs]

Yeah, that could work as well. Only give out points for less attractive away fixtures.

That seems sensible compromise. In recent times demand outstrips supply. Not than long ago we had a few hundred fans at Ibrox and parkhead. Also, only 1500 fans at the PBS, to witness a magnificent one nil win

[Billy Whizz]

That seems sensible compromise. In recent times demand outstrips supply. Not than long ago we had a few hundred fans at Ibrox and parkhead. Also, only 1500 fans at the PBS, to witness a magnificent one nil win

That wasn’t in her thoughts when she introduced it in the 1st place

[Dancehibs]

That wasn’t in her thoughts when she introduced it in the 1st place

What was in her thoughts?

[lucky]

First thing that needs done is to change the name from loyalty points as this causes friction as fans all regard themselves as loyal and most invest a fair chunk into the club through various methods.

LD has said no on numerous occasions so it’s not coming back as fans threatened not to renew their STs as they had no chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away. The AST works,so maybe we could have a scheme where fans sign up for half AST or a Cat AST

[Ozyhibby]

Also I’d rather we spent money on the team rather than waste it running a loyalty scheme that will not bring in a penny of extra income for the club. Things are going well just now, why divert money from Lennon’s budget for this?


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[Dancehibs]

Also I’d rather we spent money on the team rather than waste it running a loyalty scheme that will not bring in a penny of extra income for the club. Things are going well just now, why divert money from Lennon’s budget for this?


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Do you go to away games ? How much money will this cost to run ? How do you know this will come out of Lennys budget?

[Ozyhibby]

Do you go to away games ? How much money will this cost to run ? How do you know this will come out of Lennys budget?

What other budget would it come out of?


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[Billy Whizz]

What was in her thoughts?

She wanted to help grow the fan base

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/6249

[Dancehibs]

What other budget would it come out of?


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I’m not finance director. You seem to have all the answers. But fail to answer simple questions.

Perhaps you can get Whitty to run it ... since his legs have gone. A nice desk job should be perfect

[WhileTheChief..]

Yay, let’s derail the thread and argue about Whittaker!!

He makes a good point. There’s only so much money to go round.

How would people donating to HSL feel if their cash was being used to implement and run a loyalty scheme?! Especially those that don’t go to away games.

[Since90+2]

I don't have a strong opinion on loyalty points either way but the cost thing is a red herring. The Ticketmaster system is already designed to release tickets at stages pre determined by the club based on points. The additional cost would be tiny.

[Dancehibs]

Yay, let’s derail the thread and argue about Whittaker!!

He makes a good point. There’s only so much money to go round.

How would people donating to HSL feel if their cash was being used to implement and run a loyalty scheme?! Especially those that don’t go to away games.
Point made it comes out of lennys budget. Now it’s possibly HSL money.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't have a strong opinion on loyalty points either way but the cost thing is a red herring. The Ticketmaster system is already designed to release tickets at stages pre determined by the club based on points. The additional cost would be tiny.

What about all the people phoning the club with loyalty point queries? The club have a very small staff who are busy enough. Should we hire more to deal with this?


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[Ozyhibby]

Point made it comes out of lennys budget. Now it’s possibly HSL money.

That’s Lenny’s money as well. Everything we spend that does not generate money is money we could spend on the team instead.
Loyalty point system makes no money.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Is the away ticket thing even that big a deal?

Have any of you guys that have gone home and away for decades lost out in the last few years due to no loyalty scheme?

If we genuinely had hundreds of fans in that position then I can see their being merit in trying to do something to fix it.

If it’s only a handful of you that have missed one or two games then nah, stop bumping your gums and try again next time!

You can’t always get what you want as Mick once told us.

[Billy Whizz]

That’s Lenny’s money as well. Everything we spend that does not generate money is money we could spend on the team instead.
Loyalty point system makes no money.


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Yet the away season ticket scheme is a manual job for the TO staff

[Since90+2]

What about all the people phoning the club with loyalty point queries? The club have a very small staff who are busy enough. Should we hire more to deal with this?


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Id highly doubt you'd have so many people phoning to query loyalty points that it would mean hiring extra staff.

Again , I'm not really for or against loyalty points but this idea that cost is a factor doesn't really add up IMO.

[HibeeHibernian4]

LD has said no on numerous occasions so it’s not coming back as fans threatened not to renew their STs as they had no chance of getting a ticket for Hearts away. The AST works,so maybe we could have a scheme where fans sign up for half AST or a Cat AST

Well those fans, quite frankly, are absolutely petulant part-timers.

[WhileTheChief..]

ST holders now being branded part timers!

It used to be widely accepted that they were the life blood of the club.

Not anymore it seems. You gotta buy a ST, an AST and subscribe to HSL or you deserve diddly squat!

[Ozyhibby]

Yet the away season ticket scheme is a manual job for the TO staff

Selling away tickets has to be done anyway. Probably saves time knowing a chunk are accounted for straight away by direct debit rather than people visiting the ticket office.
I like the away season ticket scheme, looks after those that go home and away (which helps keep buses viable) but is very simple to run for the staff.
Our most regular away fans are already looked after by the club with this scheme so spending money to replace it with another scheme seems like a waste to me.


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[Dancehibs]

What about all the people phoning the club with loyalty point queries? The club have a very small staff who are busy enough. Should we hire more to deal with this?


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More questions but no answers to basic questions. Total scaremongering I feel

[Ozyhibby]

Well those fans, quite frankly, are absolutely petulant part-timers.

Season ticket holders are part timers?
That’s the attitude that got the loyalty point scheme cancelled.
Thankfully Leeann does not share your opinion and she realises the are the most important source of revenue for our club.


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[Dancehibs]

That’s Lenny’s money as well. Everything we spend that does not generate money is money we could spend on the team instead.
Loyalty point system makes no money.


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More incorrect statements. It goes to the football department not Lenny

[Dancehibs]

Season ticket holders are part timers?
That’s the attitude that got the loyalty point scheme cancelled.
Thankfully Leeann does not share your opinion and she realises the are the most important source of revenue for our club.


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I agree. Season tickets are the lifeblood of the club

[Ozyhibby]

More questions but no answers to basic questions. Total scaremongering I feel

Apologies, which question of yours did I miss?


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[Kojock]

On scrapping the LP scheme LD stated that she didn't want to create an exclusive group of supporters then allowed the AST scheme to be introduce which has created an even more elitist group of around 300 where no one can join until someone leaves.

[Ozyhibby]

More incorrect statements. It goes to the football department not Lenny

I think most people will understand that I was not saying Neil himself will be getting the money. [emoji23]


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[Just Alf]

Done properly, and simply, the loyalty points system would enhance season tickets.

When you buy a ST you're immediately given the equivalent of, say, 10 points per home game with say a 5 - 10% extra as its a ST.

At the end of the season you'd have 5 - 10% more than someone who paid game by game, also you'd have those points in the bank prior to the 1st game at ibrox (for example) where a non season ticket holder would get to their full total by the end of the season.

Away game tickets won't receive points, although maybe some points could be added for away ST's though.

It's ALL about driving more money to Hibs as early as possible in the season. The above would be an added value for having a ST but wouldn't leave those paying every home game out on a limb either.

Lastly make it a rolling 3 years, points from 3 seasons ago get deleted end of each season.

Sorted!



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[easty]

Also I’d rather we spent money on the team rather than waste it running a loyalty scheme that will not bring in a penny of extra income for the club. Things are going well just now, why divert money from Lennon’s budget for this?


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Every time loyalty points are brought up I see you make this point about it costing us too much money. Yet, you’ve never actually been able to say, as far as I can remember, how much you think it costs.

[Dancehibs]

Yet the away season ticket scheme is a manual job for the TO staff

Man U, Newcastle Liverpool etc don’t have people manually adding points . Automatic functionality in the online system. I don’t know costs. But if we had an attendance points scheme, would a ten pounds joining fee seem fair.

Not sure if that sort of thing has been considered

[WhileTheChief..]

On scrapping the LP scheme LD stated that she didn't want to create an exclusive group of supporters then allowed the AST scheme to be introduce which has created an even more elitist group of around 300 where no one can join until someone leaves.

Any idea why it was limited to 300?

I’d have thought the 800 that Rangers give us is the lowest allocation we would receive from any of the clubs so we should be able to offer 800 ASTs no?

[Ozyhibby]

Every time loyalty points are brought up I see you make this point about it costing us too much money. Yet, you’ve never actually been able to say, as far as I can remember, how much you think it costs.

I have no idea what it costs, absolutely none at all. Not a scooby. However, I was told by a relatively senior member of staff at Easter road at the time that the scheme was in operation and just before it was cancelled that it was costing far too much dealing with the constant stream of enquiries from fans phoning up to see how many points they had, why was the level of points being set for this game and not that game, why have the points for the ticket I bought at the pod with cash at 2.55pm on Saturday not been added, can I bring my ticket stub down to the office and get them added etc etc etc.
The club do not have a large staff and it was taking up far too much of their time for something that brings in zero extra money to the club.
So yes, I have no idea of the costs involved but I do know it was concerning people at the club and shortly after it was binned.


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[HibeeHibernian4]

Season ticket holders are part timers?
That’s the attitude that got the loyalty point scheme cancelled.
Thankfully Leeann does not share your opinion and she realises the are the most important source of revenue for our club.


ST holders now being branded part timers!

It used to be widely accepted that they were the life blood of the club.

Not anymore it seems. You gotta buy a ST, an AST and subscribe to HSL or you deserve diddly squat!

Here we go, two absolutely blatant misquotations from two posters who are determined not to see loyalty points back. You in particular, WhileTheChief, seem to be obtuse in understanding this basic, simple point. The fans who go to the most away games should be given first refusal on away tickets for the biggest away games. This categorically would not stop season ticket holders having a chance of tickets, but they could certainly help their chances by going to more away games and (crucially) supporting the team.

The fans who stamped their feet and threatened to withdraw their season ticket if they didn't get a shot at Roseburn tickets despite never going to away games are, yes, part timers in terms of away attendance. What else would you call somebody who doesn't go to a single away game all season and then rocks up expecting a chance at a ticket for the glamour games?

[Billy Whizz]

I have no idea what it costs, absolutely none at all. Not a scooby. However, I was told by a relatively senior member of staff at Easter road at the time that the scheme was in operation and just before it was cancelled that it was costing far too much dealing with the constant stream of enquiries from fans phoning up to see how many points they had, why was the level of points being set for this game and not that game, why have the points for the ticket I bought at the pod with cash at 2.55pm on Saturday not been added, can I bring my ticket stub down to the office and get them added etc etc etc.
The club do not have a large staff and it was taking up far too much of their time for something that brings in zero extra money to the club.
So yes, I have no idea of the costs involved but I do know it was concerning people at the club and shortly after it was binned.


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The loyalty scheme actually makes it easier for Hibs to manage the online system. No idea how many logged on today. Let’s say 3,000 for arguments sake
When we had the loyalty scheme tranches of 200/300 would only log on at the time. Out system is so poor and completely out of date for a club our size. I lost a ticket today due to it being like that
We were promised a new and improved system. Where is it

[beensaidbefore]

Apologies if I have missed it, but one of the issues before were people buying tickets to ensure they got the points then giving them to friends family etc. This skews the system and keeps those at the top at the top. What would stop that happening with a new system.

[Billy Whizz]

Apologies if I have missed it, but one of the issues before were people buying tickets to ensure they got the points then giving them to friends family etc. This skews the system and keeps those at the top at the top. What would stop that happening with a new system.

What stops fans buying £25 tickets and not going, yet they can buy a ticket for Tynie, Ibrox and Celtic Park

[WhileTheChief..]

I’ve never said I’m against a loyalty scheme.

I’m discussing the merits of having one though.

[Ozyhibby]

The loyalty scheme actually makes it easier for Hibs to manage the online system. No idea how many logged on today. Let’s say 3,000 for arguments sake
When we had the loyalty scheme tranches of 200/300 would only log on at the time. Out system is so poor and completely out of date for a club our size. I lost a ticket today due to it being like that
We were promised a new and improved system. Where is it

Is this the ticketmaster system? I agree that is hopeless. It’s probably the cheapest set up ticketmaster offer as they seem to deal with bigger events than us.


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[Hermit Crab]

Apologies if I have missed it, but one of the issues before were people buying tickets to ensure they got the points then giving them to friends family etc. This skews the system and keeps those at the top at the top. What would stop that happening with a new system.


You'll always get points whores though, they can still only buy one ticket for a high profile away game though.

[MWHIBBIES]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?

[Billy Whizz]

Is this the ticketmaster system? I agree that is hopeless. It’s probably the cheapest set up ticketmaster offer as they seem to deal with bigger events than us.


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That’s the one

[beensaidbefore]

What stops fans buying £25 tickets and not going, yet they can buy a ticket for Tynie, Ibrox and Celtic Park

I would say that is an issue too. Do you disagree that 'point whores' (nod to HC for the great term) should be prevented in some way from becoming the elite/uber fans who would be almost guaranteed every game.

[beensaidbefore]

You'll always get points whores though, they can still only buy one ticket for a high profile away game though.

Thing is though, why should the attendee, rather than the purchaser not enjoy the points. It would keep the system fairer as opposed to a few with loads of points miles ahead of everyone else.

[Dancehibs]

I think most people will understand that I was not saying Neil himself will be getting the money. [emoji23]


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Nobody thought it goes in Neil’s wallet.

[Just Alf]

Thing is though, why should the attendee, rather than the purchaser not enjoy the points. It would keep the system fairer as opposed to a few with loads of points miles ahead of everyone else.In the system I mentioned earlier the purchaser/attendee would still be at the end of the queue behind the various season ticket holders.

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[Ozyhibby]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?

Was the away season ticket in operation at that point? That would have been perfect for you if you were going to that many games.
It’s not fair btw but the value of season ticket sales is the most important thing to Hibs.


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[Billy Whizz]

I would say that is an issue too. Do you disagree that 'point whores' (nod to HC for the great term) should be prevented in some way from becoming the elite/uber fans who would be almost guaranteed every game.

For me no one would get loyalty points for sell out away games like Tynecastle, Ibrox and Celtic Park.
You’d gather all your points at the rest of the away games
That means ones who go to Pittodrie etc for a night game are rewarded
It’s very rare for us to sell out a category B game

Might also encourage more fans to go to away games, which was what it was all about in the 1st place

[ian cruise]

loyalty points should be dished out at the end of each season, a walk-up that attends every home game gives the club far more money that a ST holder, who's the more loyal fan then :devil: away ST holders don't pay money towards the running of the club :idea:

It's actually not a terrible idea, not sure how serious you were being?

Rather than loyalty, it's attendance points. You collect points for each game attended and at the end of the season they get allocated for the next seasons ticket purchases. Do away with the AST as you don't need two schemes in places and the lions share if the admin work for this is done throughout the close season.

[My_Wife_Camille]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?
Someone will be along shortly to tell you that it is fair because you went to so many other games that it was someone else's turn

[Hermit Crab]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?


Absolutely not, why is why we need a points system.

[Chorley Hibee]

It's disheartening that the board seem to be taking such a stubborn stance upon the loyalty points issue. It's a farcical situation, and the supporters are once again being ignored and taken for granted.

It's also ridiculous (although I appreciate this may be a Celtic issue more than Hibs) that there is now further tickets available that supporters were not informed about.

[Kojock]

Any idea why it was limited to 300?

I’d have thought the 800 that Rangers give us is the lowest allocation we would receive from any of the clubs so we should be able to offer 800 ASTs no?

It was limited so that season ticket holders had a slight chance of getting away tickets for the bigot brothers.

[beensaidbefore]

For me no one would get loyalty points for sell out away games like Tynecastle, Ibrox and Celtic Park.
You’d gather all your points at the rest of the away games
That means ones who go to Pittodrie etc for a night game are rewarded
It’s very rare for us to sell out a category B game

Might also encourage more fans to go to away games, which was what it was all about in the 1st place

I think that would be fair.

[Speedy]

Id highly doubt you'd have so many people phoning to query loyalty points that it would mean hiring extra staff.

Again , I'm not really for or against loyalty points but this idea that cost is a factor doesn't really add up IMO.

Cost/resource must be a factor. Why else would we have binned it?

[MWHIBBIES]

Was the away season ticket in operation at that point? That would have been perfect for you if you were going to that many games.
It’s not fair btw but the value of season ticket sales is the most important thing to Hibs.


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I think it was so I guess it's my fault. Although I didn't plan on attending every game until I realised it might be possible around October/November.

It's an extreme example obviously but can quite easily happen again. I haven't missed a game this season except away Europe ones and again, I won't be at Celtic park

[Skol]

Our fans reps have already told us (that they have been told) they will not be brought back.

[BoomtownHibees]

I wonder how other clubs cope with it being called a “loyalty scheme”

I wonder how other clubs cope with the increased costs and increased resource needed at their ticket office

I wonder how other clubs cope with point whores

I wonder how other clubs cope with season ticket holders threatening to stop buying their season ticket

Other clubs cope because it is such a simple logic: the more games you go to, the more points you get and the more chance you have of getting a ticket for the bigger games.

[Carheenlea]

Despite having record Season Ticket numbers of circa 14,000, our away crowds have not really increased that much from what they’ve always been. Most away games will see between 1500 - 2500 travelling fans of which the majority will be regular travellers. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that they should be first in line for high demand games with limited allocations. The evidence is there that most of our 14,000 season ticket holders are quite happy to take their for home games to support the team, but not as fussed for away matches, and I’d argue that a Loyalty Scheme would not devalue a ST, and wouldn’t discourage anyone from not buying one.

[Kojock]

In a week or so another thread exactly the same as this will appear when the tickets go on sale for the PBS. All the same points will be raised all the same arguments will be discussed and nothing will be resolved. Then we get to through it all over again when the Hun tickets go on sale and so on and so on.

[Libby Hibby]

What about a simple Ballot?

Everyone who wants to go to an away game, add your name to a list and draw the names out a hat.

Draw requires to be fully transparent.

[BoomtownHibees]

What about a simple Ballot?

Everyone who wants to go to an away game, add your name to a list and draw the names out a hat.

Draw requires to be fully transparent.

No much different to what it is now

[Libby Hibby]

No much different to what it is now

Agreed but without the hassle / inconvenience / disappointment of the online scramble.

[cleanyman]

If I don't get a ticket for the away end which is rare anyway then I sit in the home end.

It's no Biggie.

We don't need loyalty points. We rarely sell out our away allocation

We are riding a wave and this is what happens when you support a club that's doing well

[kaimendhibs]

I wonder how other clubs cope with it being called a “loyalty scheme”

I wonder how other clubs cope with the increased costs and increased resource needed at their ticket office

I wonder how other clubs cope with point whores

I wonder how other clubs cope with season ticket holders threatening to stop buying their season ticket

Other clubs cope because it is such a simple logic: the more games you go to, the more points you get and the more chance you have of getting a ticket for the bigger games.10/10

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[Eyrie]

Any scheme need to be a simple as possible, and reward people who put their money into Hibs first.

So season ticket holders get 25 points, plus 1 for each home cup game. That prioritises season ticket holders.

Walk ups get 1 point for each game they attend but only for tickets bought online or over the telephone at least 24 hours in advance. That benefits those who pay money to Hibs for the home games.

Paying cash on the day means you miss out so there is no hassle for the ticket staff.

Those going to away games get 1 point for each match, except when we sell out our allocation. So they get rewarded for going to Pittodrie, McDiarmid etc but not Ibrox, Parkhead and the PBS.

[Carheenlea]

What about a simple Ballot?

Everyone who wants to go to an away game, add your name to a list and draw the names out a hat.

Draw requires to be fully transparent.


If I don't get a ticket for the away end which is rare anyway then I sit in the home end.

It's no Biggie.

We don't need loyalty points. We rarely sell out our away allocation

We are riding a wave and this is what happens when you support a club that's doing well

We don’t have the numbers travelling to away games to require a ballot for most of them, and the fact we rarely sell out our away allocation is exactly why we should have a scheme of sorts in place to ensure those supporting the club on the road most regularly get priority for the more in demand fixtures.

[PatHead]

Cost/resource must be a factor. Why else would we have binned it?
It created too much work for ticket office staff.

Fans who paid at the gate for away matches missed out on points.

Fans tried to pull a fast one or didn’t understand how it worked and felt they missed out on tickets.

Ticket office staff were abused.

Leeann was bombarded with complaints about the system and how it was unfair.

[Hiber-nation]

Leeann was bombarded with complaints about the system and how it was unfair.

If she was "bombarded" about the loyalty points system I dread to think what her inbox has been like since she ditched it.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I attended every single game in our promotion season. Home and away. All cup ties as well, except the Scottish cup tie at tynecastle because I couldn't get a ticket. Is that fair?

No, it's simply not fair, and I genuinely cannot fathom that there are people who think otherwise.

[Ken]

If Hibs wanted to bring in the LP system for the 2019/20 season then heres how easy it is.

If you had a 18/19 season ticket coupled with an away season ticket this season and renew then you start of on 60 points.

If you just had an 18/19 season ticket and renew you start with 50 points.

If you're a first time purchaser of a season ticket in 2019/20 season then you get 40 points.

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Away games

Loyalty points for away games issued as follows (depending on league participants) and depending whether tickets are issued by the respective clubs although most clubs no longer accommodate PATG without tickets going on sale first.

Hearts, Celtic, Rangers away, 1 loyalty point for big away games smaller allocation (hearts isn't exactly away so 1 loyalty point)

Livingston, Motherwell, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and Dundee 2 points, fairly easy to get to with large away allocations but can be unattractive to fans so more loyalty points for attending these lesser attractive games.

Aberdeen away, 3 loyalty points, long distance to travel, unattractive in the winter and usually tv games but incentive to go with more points for attending.

If Ross County or Inverness come up then they would be 3 point matches going by distance and and attractiveness of the fixtures.

Cup away games would depend on the draw and allocation. Use the method above regarding distance as a general rule of thumb.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home games

Points issued in the following way for home games.

Cup matches that season Ticket Holders attend gets you 1 loyalty point if you buy a ticket through the website, call centre or ticket office getting the ticket using their client reference number. (NB if you buy multiple tickets for friends using you client ref then you still only get 1 point for your actual ticket for your seat.

Walk ups (PATG) 0 loyalty points, I know it seems harsh but the incentive is there to buy in advance to get points, tickets can be bought online minutes before kick off and scanned from phones at turnstiles.

No retrospective adding of points etc.

No points for pies, clubs shop crap and pints behind the goals. Points are for tickets only.

At the end of the season everyone gets 50 knocked off their total and he scheme begins again.

I agree with that except I wouldn’t give any loyalty points for attending Tynie, Ibrox or Parkhead given the demand will be far greater than the allocation


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[Hermit Crab]

I agree with that except I wouldn’t give any loyalty points for attending Tynie, Ibrox or Parkhead given the demand will be far greater than the allocation


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Yeah thats fair enough.

[0762]

I wonder how other clubs cope with it being called a “loyalty scheme”

I wonder how other clubs cope with the increased costs and increased resource needed at their ticket office

I wonder how other clubs cope with point whores

I wonder how other clubs cope with season ticket holders threatening to stop buying their season ticket

Other clubs cope because it is such a simple logic: the more games you go to, the more points you get and the more chance you have of getting a ticket for the bigger games.

Simple :flag:

[0762]

It created too much work for ticket office staff.

Fans who paid at the gate for away matches missed out on points.

Fans tried to pull a fast one or didn’t understand how it worked and felt they missed out on tickets.

Ticket office staff were abused.

Leeann was bombarded with complaints about the system and how it was unfair.

All avoidable. Just needs someone who knows what they are doing to run and implement a scheme.
We seemed to have one and then we started giving points because someone can pay more than the next person by subscribing to HLS.

You probably summed it all up in the last sentence. If you create the problem by get the complaints. That's not the reason to scrap it - it's the prompt to sort it.
We class ourselves as a big club. Time we started behaving like one. Smaller clubs than us have loyalty points schemes that work so why not us?

[mim]

If I don't get a ticket for the away end which is rare anyway then I sit in the home end.

It's no Biggie.

We don't need loyalty points. We rarely sell out our away allocation

We are riding a wave and this is what happens when you support a club that's doing well

This :aok:

[monktonharp]

If I don't get a ticket for the away end which is rare anyway then I sit in the home end.

It's no Biggie.

We don't need loyalty points. We rarely sell out our away allocation

We are riding a wave and this is what happens when you support a club that's doing wellso you will have no probs getting into Celtic Park, Ibrox, Tynecastle Park or even Pittodrie then ? I somehow dinnae understand what the hell you are oan aboot!!!. we could sell our away tickets for those games 3 times over. we cant because we cant get them!! all of those games are selt oot, nae probs. our supporter's branch are always toiling to run a bus because our members and regulars cant get enough tickets for these games. cant figure out where you are coming from.

[percy veer]

I would like to know how many tickets the ticket office staff get for these big games or is it a case of as many as you like, seems nowadays its all about who you know.

[LaMotta]

If I don't get a ticket for the away end which is rare anyway then I sit in the home end.

It's no Biggie.

We don't need loyalty points. We rarely sell out our away allocation

We are riding a wave and this is what happens when you support a club that's doing well

You would generally only need to do this at three away grounds. Ibrox, Parkhead and Tynecastle.

People can do it at Parkhead easily enough, but will have no chance (unless they have friends from the dark side) for next games at Tynecastle or Ibrox because there wont be any tickets to buy in the home end, so it's not a good solution.


Heres the problem though as well with your last sentence. When we are doing well, everyone wants to go to big games. A loyalty system could and should recognise the fans who consistently watch the team away from home when things arent going so well.

[The Modfather]

Loyalty points are probably the fairest way to go, but it isn’t perfect.

I’m a Scotland travel club member and generally go to 2 or 3 away games per campaign. With last the last campaign being my most active and was at 4 of the 5 games only missing Slovenia away. The travel club is a closed shop and for years I’ve been stuck in the cycle of sitting in the home end as can’t get into the away end, which gets me no points and so the cycle continues. I know people who have bought tickets for games they have no intention of going to just to keep their points total. While I’ve been in the home end.

[cabbageandribs1875]

The fans who stamped their feet and threatened to withdraw their season ticket if they didn't get a shot at Roseburn tickets despite never going to away games are, yes, part timers in terms of away attendance. What else would you call somebody who doesn't go to a single away game all season and then rocks up expecting a chance at a ticket for the glamour games?


tbf that was quite funny, supposed uber fans threatening to turn their backs on the club....aye very uber :greengrin


It's actually not a terrible idea, not sure how serious you were being?

Rather than loyalty, it's attendance points. You collect points for each game attended and at the end of the season they get allocated for the next seasons ticket purchases. Do away with the AST as you don't need two schemes in places and the lions share if the admin work for this is done throughout the close season.


yep i'm being serious, i've mentioned this point a few times on here over the years :agree: just because someone has the cash to splash out on a ST doesn't mean he/she is any more loyal than someone who can only(or chooses to) pay at the gate for all home games, some seem to think those that buy a ST and choose to go to only a handful of games a season are somehow more loyal :bitchy: but i did read on an earlier post that one of our special fans thinks it's perfectly fine to dish out 0 loyalty points to walk-ups :rolleyes:

[My_Wife_Camille]

tbf that was quite funny, supposed uber fans threatening to turn their backs on the club....aye very uber :greengrin




yep i'm being serious, i've mentioned this point a few times on here over the years :agree: just because someone has the cash to splash out on a ST doesn't mean he/she is any more loyal than someone who can only(or chooses to) pay at the gate for all home games, some seem to think those that buy a ST and choose to go to only a handful of games a season are somehow more loyal :bitchy: but i did read on an earlier post that one of our special fans thinks it's perfectly fine to dish out 0 loyalty points to walk-ups :rolleyes:
This is why a simple name change would wipe out a massive part of the problem. No more wacky interpretations of what constitutes ‘loyalty’, even though we all know exactly what it means in this context.

Attendance points. Points for attending games. You can be the most loyal Hibs fan in the world by whatever interpretation you want but if you don’t go to the games then you don’t pick up the points.

[Hermit Crab]

Loyalty points are probably the fairest way to go, but it isn’t perfect.

I’m a Scotland travel club member and generally go to 2 or 3 away games per campaign. With last the last campaign being my most active and was at 4 of the 5 games only missing Slovenia away. The travel club is a closed shop and for years I’ve been stuck in the cycle of sitting in the home end as can’t get into the away end, which gets me no points and so the cycle continues. I know people who have bought tickets for games they have no intention of going to just to keep their points total. While I’ve been in the home end.


I thought the Scottish FA selected people at random who'd bought tickets for away games meaning they had to go and collect them at a certain point in the city of the game?

[cabbageandribs1875]

This is why a simple name change would wipe out a massive part of the problem. No more wacky interpretations of what constitutes ‘loyalty’, even though we all know exactly what it means in this context.

Attendance points. Points for attending games. You can be the most loyal Hibs fan in the world by whatever interpretation you want but if you don’t go to the games then you don’t pick up the points.



fair points, agree with all of this :agree:

[cleanyman]

so you will have no probs getting into Celtic Park, Ibrox, Tynecastle Park or even Pittodrie then ? I somehow dinnae understand what the hell you are oan aboot!!!. we could sell our away tickets for those games 3 times over. we cant because we cant get them!! all of those games are selt oot, nae probs. our supporter's branch are always toiling to run a bus because our members and regulars cant get enough tickets for these games. cant figure out where you are coming from.

Buy an away season ticket then

[Ozyhibby]

Thankfully the club have decided to maximise the money given to the manager for improving the team rather than spend it on a scheme to improve distribution of tickets for other clubs grounds. It’s a good decision.


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[Since90+2]

Thankfully the club have decided to maximise the money given to the manager for improving the team rather than spend it on a scheme to improve distribution of tickets for other clubs grounds. It’s a good decision.


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You mention the cost nearly every single time. Do you have any idea how much it costs the club? Even a rough indication? £50 a week? £100? £500?

Given that you continually mention the cost I'm assuming you have some rough idea and guide to what these costs are.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We've had this discussion many times, but it seems that ship has sailed. I think some form of loyalty scheme is a good idea, but there will always be folk who find fault. No system is perfect, and the endless arguments get tiresome. Looks like we'll just have to endure the free for all.

[Ozyhibby]

You mention the cost nearly every single time. Do you have any idea how much it costs the club? Even a rough indication? £50 a week? £100? £500?

Given that you continually mention the cost I'm assuming you have some rough idea and guide to what these costs are.

I already covered this earlier in the thread. Too lazy to type it again.


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[Hermit Crab]

Buy an away season ticket then


You can't buy an away season ticket, there is no upfront cost involved like a home season ticket. By signing up for the away season ticket you commit to purchasing a ticket for every single away match regardless if you can make the game or not. Numbers were limited and not everyone who applied was successful I believe.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Thankfully the club have decided to maximise the money given to the manager for improving the team rather than spend it on a scheme to improve distribution of tickets for other clubs grounds. It’s a good decision.

Look, if you just want to have a chance of tickets for away games, you can say it. Even though you’d be mistaken to think that loyalty points would stop you getting away tickets, I’m not going to judge you for having vested interests, in fact I’d probably understand your dedication to arguing against loyalty points more.

But if you actually think that a loyalty points system akin to the one that Hearts manage to run with zero fuss is somehow unfair or costly to Hibs, then you are wrong. Just plain wrong.

[Since90+2]

I already covered this earlier in the thread. Too lazy to type it again.


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So you don't know is the answer.

[The Harp]

This thread has got me thinking. I've been a regular at ER since the 50s, before loyalty point schemes, and when you could only buy a season ticket for the centre and north sections of the old stand. There's only been a couple of seasons when I haven't missed a game home or away and both were at times when I didn't have a season ticket (in my case pre 1970).
These days, although I rarely miss a home game, I only manage a few away matches due to family commitments.
I've no axe to grind over loyalty points, one way or the other, but it seems fair to me that regular attenders, home and away, should be given priority when it comes to acquiring tickets for games when we only have a small allocation.

[WhileTheChief..]

So you don't know is the answer.

How could he possibly know? Unless he does, which he doesn’t !!

He is right however to say that there will be a cost involved.

If every penny raised through HSL is important to us then surely the same applies to every penny spent?

[PatHead]

Honest question and not trying to stir things. How many people do you know that want tickets but miss out on Tynecastle, Ibrox or Parkhead?

[Leith's finest]

I have a st and have had it for a gd few years, i would like to see a loyalty system in place.
A simple idea would be points added for cup tie tickets ie, home tickets in league and scottish cup ties, it may help more people to buy tickets for less glamoures games. This could also help walk up fans who are on the system

[My_Wife_Camille]

Honest question and not trying to stir things. How many people do you know that want tickets but miss out on Tynecastle, Ibrox or Parkhead?
Me and 3 other home and away regulars missed a game at Ibrox a few years ago

[Carheenlea]

Honest question and not trying to stir things. How many people do you know that want tickets but miss out on Tynecastle, Ibrox or Parkhead?

Last season I missed out on one trip to Ibrox and one at Tynecastle, but fortunately was able to acquire tickets for both games from a friend who had a spare and one from a spare ticket thread.

[Since90+2]

How could he possibly know? Unless he does, which he doesn’t !!

He is right however to say that there will be a cost involved.

If every penny raised through HSL is important to us then surely the same applies to every penny spent?

I just find it abit odd to be banging on about the cost when we have no idea what it is. It might be £50 a week for all we know which is nothing in reality.

Where do you draw the line if every penny spent should go to the first team? Should Hibs stop getting involved in community outreach programs as they undoubtedly have a cost?

[B.H.F.C]

Where do you draw the line if every penny spent should go to the first team? Should Hibs stop getting involved in community outreach programs as they undoubtedly have a cost?

If it suits people’s argument, or own situation, then they’d probably argue yes to this.

Every time this debate crops up the same people argue the same point and It’ll generally suit their point of view or whether or not there is a benefit to them in having or not having such a scheme.

As others have pointed out, I find it strange that other clubs in our league can run a points scheme successfully without all the talk of costs, elite groups etc.

[WhileTheChief..]

I just find it abit odd to be banging on about the cost when we have no idea what it is. It might be £50 a week for all we know which is nothing in reality.

Where do you draw the line if every penny spent should go to the first team? Should Hibs stop getting involved in community outreach programs as they undoubtedly have a cost?

I agree with you, the cost is probably not what’s stopping the club from implementing a scheme.

However, every time HSL gets mentioned we’re told that every penny counts!

I don’t know where to draw the line. Personally I’m not really into the whole community club stuff so if we can save money there I’m all for it! I think the Hibernian Community Trust is completely separate from the club though other than them getting space in the south stand?

BHFC, you’re totally wrong if you’re referring to me? I don’t have strong feelings either way about a loyalty scheme.

If the club club bring one in then great, if they don’t, well it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

I think I’m still allowed to discuss the point though?

[Danderhall Hibs]

I already covered this earlier in the thread. Too lazy to type it again.


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It would’ve saved you time (and money) to have just said no.

[Speedy]

You mention the cost nearly every single time. Do you have any idea how much it costs the club? Even a rough indication? £50 a week? £100? £500?

Given that you continually mention the cost I'm assuming you have some rough idea and guide to what these costs are.

If he told you we couldn't afford to buy Leigh Griffiths, or Lionel Messi would you question his source?

His previous post clearly states he was told cost was prohibitive. Seems a reasonable reason to mention it.

The club simply don't broadcast these things.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree with you, the cost is probably not what’s stopping the club from implementing a scheme.

However, every time HSL gets mentioned we’re told that every penny counts!

I don’t know where to draw the line. Personally I’m not really into the whole community club stuff so if we can save money there I’m all for it! I think the Hibernian Community Trust is completely separate from the club though other than them getting space in the south stand?

BHFC, you’re totally wrong if you’re referring to me? I don’t have strong feelings either way about a loyalty scheme.

If the club club bring one in then great, if they don’t, well it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

I think I’m still allowed to discuss the point though?

I wasn’t referring to you. Just how I see it generally.

[Since90+2]

If he told you we couldn't afford to buy Leigh Griffiths, or Lionel Messi would you question his source?



Eh no not really because that would be ridiculous. If we are having a discussion about the costs of a loyalty points scheme to the club then it's best to keep it sensible.

[PatHead]

Me and 3 other home and away regulars missed a game at Ibrox a few years ago

Thanks for replying. It appears as though you are the only one who has missed a game. If that is the case and you have only missed one game in a few seasons maybe the system works?

[Speedy]

Eh no not really because that would be ridiculous. If we are having a discussion about the costs of a loyalty points scheme to the club then it's best to keep it sensible.

Exactly. It's also ridiculous to dismiss cost as a factor because a particular poster can't tell you the figures.

[Since90+2]

Exactly. It's also ridiculous to dismiss cost as a factor because a particular poster can't tell you the figures.

I wonder how Aberdeen and Hearts are able to run such a scheme with these prohibitive costs. It's very strange that they do this knowing the impact it has on the football budget.

Either they are happy to run such a scheme knowing the costs will impact their playing budget but do it anyway or such prohibitive costs don't actually exist. I think most people will be able to draw their own conclusions as to what the correct answer is :wink:.

[Speedy]

I wonder how Aberdeen and Hearts are able to run such a scheme with these prohibitive costs. It's very strange that they do this knowing the impact it has on the football budget.

Either they are happy to run such a scheme knowing the costs will impact their playing budget but do it anyway or such prohibitive costs don't actually exist. I think most people will be able to draw their own conclusions as to what the correct answer is :wink:.

I've no idea how much it costs but I'll refrain from using Hearts as a barometer for good financial management.

[Since90+2]

I've no idea how much it costs but I'll refrain from using Hearts as a barometer for good financial management.

And Aberdeen?

Infact I agree we should not introduce a loyalty point scheme as we are clearly saving a huge amount that these two clubs are pumping into a loyalty points scheme to the detriment of their playing squad. One up for us.

[Speedy]

And Aberdeen?

As I said, no idea.

[Since90+2]

As I said, no idea.

:agree:

[My_Wife_Camille]

Thanks for replying. It appears as though you are the only one who has missed a game. If that is the case and you have only missed one game in a few seasons maybe the system works?
The system only works for me because I'm lucky enough to get tickets from a player, otherwise I imagine that I would have missed a few more like MWHIBEES (I think) has. I know I'm fortunate to have the benefit that I don't need to worry about tickets but even then still I'm still right behind an attendance points system because it's much fairer.

[Kojock]

You mention the cost nearly every single time. Do you have any idea how much it costs the club? Even a rough indication? £50 a week? £100? £500?

Given that you continually mention the cost I'm assuming you have some rough idea and guide to what these costs are.

Given sales are now only online or via the call centre surely the TO must be saving money as they don't need to hire extra staff (including stewards) to cater for the large queues that used to gather at ER. Could this money not be used for any points system introduced.

[HappyAsHellas]

Heats scheme is well run and easily understood by all their supporters. My brother is a season ticket holder and has been for about 40 years or so. He cannot get a ticket for ER because he no longer goes to away games and therefore doesn't have enough points. Why a system like this can't be done for us is utterly baffling.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Heats scheme is well run and easily understood by all their supporters. My brother is a season ticket holder and has been for about 40 years or so. He cannot get a ticket for ER because he no longer goes to away games and therefore doesn't have enough points. Why a system like this can't be done for us is utterly baffling.

I know a few of them and they rarely if ever complain about it. Easily understood and if they’ve not got the points they can’t go.

Not sure why we can’t just ask them for the code and copy and paste it.

[Iggy Pope]

When the old points system was abandoned, the first game I missed out on was the cup game at Hearts in 2017. First Scottish cup tie I had missed in 36/years.
I went radge and on these pages suggested I might consider telling HSL to forget my perpetual subs. A heated moment that I never went through with, but my rage was met with sarcasm and scorn by a poster, prominent on this thread, who now seems to believe that a points system will divert funds from the playing budget.
At that stage, the lack of a points system was about to do just that. In my case.

I spoke to Leanne at the time (she in fact, called me) and was left in no doubt that the main reason the system was pulled was down to several complaints, of differing degree of politeness, about the decision to give HSL members an extra 100 points therefore taking them up the tier rating. Tier rating that was pivotal to getting tickets for the big ones.

Pitiful stuff. I never asked for anything extra and in return lost what I had.

I still had close to 700 points showing on my Club ticket log in and I’ve never heard a convincing argument for its abolition. Those who go no further than EH7 to watch the Hibs appear to be the most vocal about its cost to the club.

[Billy Whizz]

When the old points system was abandoned, the first game I missed out on was the cup game at Hearts in 2017. First Scottish cup tie I had missed in 36/years.
I went radge and on these pages suggested I might consider telling HSL to forget my perpetual subs. A heated moment that I never went through with, but my rage was met with sarcasm and scorn by a poster, prominent on this thread, who now seems to believe that a points system will divert funds from the playing budget.
At that stage, the lack of a points system was about to do just that. In my case.

I spoke to Leanne at the time (she in fact, called me) and was left in no doubt that the main reason the system was pulled was down to several complaints, of differing degree of politeness, about the decision to give HSL members an extra 100 points therefore taking them up the tier rating. Tier rating that was pivotal to getting tickets for the big ones.

Pitiful stuff. I never asked for anything extra and in return lost what I had.

I still had close to 700 points showing on my Club ticket log in and I’ve never heard a convincing argument for its abolition. Those who go no further than EH7 to watch the Hibs appear to be the most vocal about its cost to the club.

Couldn’t have put it better myself IP

[WhileTheChief..]

Thing is, it’s not down to people posting on here, it’s the club’s decision.

The fact that a few posters on here are maybe against a scheme is completely irrelevant.

[Speedy]

When the old points system was abandoned, the first game I missed out on was the cup game at Hearts in 2017. First Scottish cup tie I had missed in 36/years.
I went radge and on these pages suggested I might consider telling HSL to forget my perpetual subs. A heated moment that I never went through with, but my rage was met with sarcasm and scorn by a poster, prominent on this thread, who now seems to believe that a points system will divert funds from the playing budget.
At that stage, the lack of a points system was about to do just that. In my case.

I spoke to Leanne at the time (she in fact, called me) and was left in no doubt that the main reason the system was pulled was down to several complaints, of differing degree of politeness, about the decision to give HSL members an extra 100 points therefore taking them up the tier rating. Tier rating that was pivotal to getting tickets for the big ones.

Pitiful stuff. I never asked for anything extra and in return lost what I had.

I still had close to 700 points showing on my Club ticket log in and I’ve never heard a convincing argument for its abolition. Those who go no further than EH7 to watch the Hibs appear to be the most vocal about its cost to the club.

Let's be honest, most people want a system that suits them. And there's no agreement on what benefits the system is trying to achieve. That's the biggest problem.

That leads to complaints, bickering, debates about long term ST holders v new ST holders, and ultimately club resource spent dealing with it.

FWIW, I agree with many posters that the Hearts system is fair and means those who go get first dibs (in my case that would mean I'd miss out but that's fair because I only get to a dozen or so games a year). Unfortunately not everyone has that view and for now the club seem to have concluded that it's not worth it.

[LancashireHibby]

The cost argument is a red herring as it’s functionality is already built in to the Ticketmaster system that the club use and is entirely automatic, bar the physical act of typing one number in to a box when setting the fixture up on the system. There’s not even a need to check back when selling the tickets via the call centre and online has been the case recently. Works fine at other clubs and I’ve never known such an issue to cause such a consistent level of bad PR for the club apart from maybe the catering.

[HH81]

The cost argument is a red herring as it’s functionality is already built in to the Ticketmaster system that the club use and is entirely automatic, bar the physical act of typing one number in to a box when setting the fixture up on the system. There’s not even a need to check back when selling the tickets via the call centre and online has been the case recently. Works fine at other clubs and I’ve never known such an issue to cause such a consistent level of bad PR for the club apart from maybe the catering.
Matt
I don't think the issue is cost or the actual scheme. It's been done to death this but ultimately the club sees season ticket sales as more important than loyalty points. You can see their point.

[Iggy Pope]

Thing is, it’s not down to people posting on here, it’s the club’s decision.

The fact that a few posters on here are maybe against a scheme is completely irrelevant.

Opinions posted on here are now to be considered irrelevant? It’s clear that the club read, and sometimes respond, to views on here.

[Iggy Pope]

Let's be honest, most people want a system that suits them. And there's no agreement on what benefits the system is trying to achieve. That's the biggest problem.

That leads to complaints, bickering, debates about long term ST holders v new ST holders, and ultimately club resource spent dealing with it.

FWIW, I agree with many posters that the Hearts system is fair and means those who go get first dibs (in my case that would mean I'd miss out but that's fair because I only get to a dozen or so games a year). Unfortunately not everyone has that view and for now the club seem to have concluded that it's not worth it.

I think it’s regular away travellers that want the away ticketing system that suits them and quite right too.
This isn’t about ST holders and never should have been.
ST holder is only a starter for 10 until he travels.

The bickering comes about as we try to introduce brain surgery into the process of clipping ones fingernails.

[Iggy Pope]

Matt
I don't think the issue is cost or the actual scheme. It's been done to death this but ultimately the club sees season ticket sales as more important than loyalty points. You can see their point.

They don’t need compared. That’s a real irrelevance.

[WhileTheChief..]

What I’m saying is that they won’t not bring back a loyalty scheme based on 1 or 2 folk on here questioning it.

They clearly don’t value the opinions on here or they’d have brought it back no?

I just don’t see why you’re trying to pick an argument with other fans when your gripe is with the club?

[LaMotta]

I think it’s regular away travellers that want the away ticketing system that suits them and quite right too.
This isn’t about ST holders and never should have been.
ST holder is only a starter for 10 until he travels.

The bickering comes about as we try to introduce brain surgery into the process of clipping ones fingernails.

Correct - and also there is no doubt that if we had a loyalty points system in place the crowds for the recent Aberdeen and Ross County cup games at Easter Road would also have been higher than they were.

The lack of a loyalty point system is costing the club money.

[Iggy Pope]

What I’m saying is that they won’t not bring back a loyalty scheme based on 1 or 2 folk on here questioning it.

They clearly don’t value the opinions on here or they’d have brought it back no?

I just don’t see why you’re trying to pick an argument with other fans when your gripe is with the club?

I’m giving my opinion, I’m not picking any argument certainly no trying here. Forum and all,that.

[danhibees1875]

Thing is, it’s not down to people posting on here, it’s the club’s decision.

The fact that a few posters on here are maybe against a scheme is completely irrelevant.

:agree: LD has said a few times that she doesn't want it. The main reason I remember her giving (at last years AGM) was that she felt it devalued a Season Ticket and she didn't want that.

I personally think that there should be a loyalty system (although it would hinder me as I rarely travel for games), but the club have made themselves clear on it.

They've not made it clear why we shouldn't have a ballot though, unless I've missed it, which is something I'd like to see introduced for the limited availability games.

Allow ST holders a window(a week) to register their interest in a ticket, then if successful they have another window (a day) to then purchase their ticket. A second ballot can then be done with any remaining tickets which were allocated but not actually bought - it would save the system getting overran at 9am when tickets go on sale and everyone would be able to complete their purchase in 5 minutes rather than an hour+.

[Dancehibs]

Matt
I don't think the issue is cost or the actual scheme. It's been done to death this but ultimately the club sees season ticket sales as more important than loyalty points. You can see their point.

Dempster stopped them. Working group new nothing about. Fans director wanted it kept and had no input to the decision. So the club didn’t decide. One person conflicted by her HSL role , through her toys out her pram

[WhileTheChief..]

Appears to me that once again it’s down to communication.

The club could easily put something on the website explaining why they don’t want a scheme or seeking out what demand there is.

We might not all agree but it would nip a few theories in the bud.

I would have said it could be one for the fans reps but I don’t know if we even have them anymore. They’re certainly never around when contentious issues are being discussed.

[Iggy Pope]

:agree: LD has said a few times that she doesn't want it. The main reason I remember her giving (at last years AGM) was that she felt it devalued a Season Ticket and she didn't want that.

I personally think that there should be a loyalty system (although it would hinder me as I rarely travel for games), but the club have made themselves clear on it.

They've not made it clear why we shouldn't have a ballot though, unless I've missed it, which is something I'd like to see introduced for the limited availability games.

Allow ST holders a window(a week) to register their interest in a ticket, then if successful they have another window (a day) to then purchase their ticket. A second ballot can then be done with any remaining tickets which were allocated but not actually bought - it would save the system getting overran at 9am when tickets go on sale and everyone would be able to complete their purchase in 5 minutes rather than an hour+.

On the call with LD I referred to earlier I suggested ballot over the current lottery would be much fairer. I'm waiting on a response.I've suggested the same on here on previous threads.
If the club (and like all of us,I love them) don't intend to give a **** about travelling fans then they should just say so and don't handle the tickets.
Conversely, it seems the playing staff appreciate the travelling contingent very much.

[Ged]

When the old points system was abandoned, the first game I missed out on was the cup game at Hearts in 2017. First Scottish cup tie I had missed in 36/years.
I went radge and on these pages suggested I might consider telling HSL to forget my perpetual subs. A heated moment that I never went through with, but my rage was met with sarcasm and scorn by a poster, prominent on this thread, who now seems to believe that a points system will divert funds from the playing budget.
At that stage, the lack of a points system was about to do just that. In my case.

I spoke to Leanne at the time (she in fact, called me) and was left in no doubt that the main reason the system was pulled was down to several complaints, of differing degree of politeness, about the decision to give HSL members an extra 100 points therefore taking them up the tier rating. Tier rating that was pivotal to getting tickets for the big ones.

Pitiful stuff. I never asked for anything extra and in return lost what I had.

I still had close to 700 points showing on my Club ticket log in and I’ve never heard a convincing argument for its abolition. Those who go no further than EH7 to watch the Hibs appear to be the most vocal about its cost to the club.


Dempster stopped them. Working group new nothing about. Fans director wanted it kept and had no input to the decision. So the club didn’t decide. One person conflicted by her HSL role , through her toys out her pram


I know which version of events I believe here........

[Iggy Pope]

Appears to me that once again it’s down to communication.

The club could easily put something on the website explaining why they don’t want a scheme or seeking out what demand there is.

We might not all agree but it would nip a few theories in the bud.

I would have said it could be one for the fans reps but I don’t know if we even have them anymore. They’re certainly never around when contentious issues are being discussed.

Generally ticket purchases won't be an issue for them unless its one of them responding to how they use their own allocation. Different topic but the Fans Rep initiative has been worthless.

[Iggy Pope]

I know which version of events I believe here........

I hope its the right one.

[Ged]

I hope its the right one.

Well only one of them makes any sense :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

Man citys spurs away ticket sales criteria. Look how simple it is.....



22,000
Thursday, 04 October 18 at 10am
1


20,000
Thursday, 04 October 18 at 3pm
1


19,000
Friday, 05 October 18 at 9am
1


17,000
Friday, 05 October 18 at 3pm
1


15,000
Monday, 08 October 18 at 9am
1


14,000
Monday, 08 October 18 at 3pm
1


13,000
Tuesday, 09 October 18 at 9am
1


12,000
Tuesday, 09 October 18 at 3pm
1


11,000
Wednesday, 10 October 18 at 9am
1


10,000
Wednesday, 10 October 18 at 3pm
1


9,000
Thursday, 11 October 18 at 10am
1


8,000
Thursday, 11 October 18 at 3pm
1


7,000
Friday, 12 October 18 at 9am
1


6,000
Friday, 12 October 18 at 3pm
1

[Hermit Crab]

The club should ask fans who attend games to vote if they want a LP system or not.

A simple yes or no to the question, would you be in favour of a points system?

That way if it comes back a no vote then it could be put to bed permanently. If its a yes vote then club should look to implement it.

[0762]

When the old points system was abandoned, the first game I missed out on was the cup game at Hearts in 2017. First Scottish cup tie I had missed in 36/years.
I went radge and on these pages suggested I might consider telling HSL to forget my perpetual subs. A heated moment that I never went through with, but my rage was met with sarcasm and scorn by a poster, prominent on this thread, who now seems to believe that a points system will divert funds from the playing budget.
At that stage, the lack of a points system was about to do just that. In my case.

I spoke to Leanne at the time (she in fact, called me) and was left in no doubt that the main reason the system was pulled was down to several complaints, of differing degree of politeness, about the decision to give HSL members an extra 100 points therefore taking them up the tier rating. Tier rating that was pivotal to getting tickets for the big ones.

Pitiful stuff. I never asked for anything extra and in return lost what I had.

I still had close to 700 points showing on my Club ticket log in and I’ve never heard a convincing argument for its abolition. Those who go no further than EH7 to watch the Hibs appear to be the most vocal about its cost to the club.

:top marks

[0762]

The cost argument is a red herring as it’s functionality is already built in to the Ticketmaster system that the club use and is entirely automatic, bar the physical act of typing one number in to a box when setting the fixture up on the system. There’s not even a need to check back when selling the tickets via the call centre and online has been the case recently. Works fine at other clubs and I’ve never known such an issue to cause such a consistent level of bad PR for the club apart from maybe the catering.

Another :top markson the subject matter.

[danhibees1875]

The club should ask fans who attend games to vote if they want a LP system or not.

A simple yes or no to the question, would you be in favour of a points system?

That way if it comes back a no vote then it could be put to bed permanently. If its a yes vote then club should look to implement it.

You only need skim the holy ground to see that's not how voting works. :duck:

[Billy Whizz]

Another :top markson the subject matter.

I spoke to someone yesterday who works for Hearts. Asked him about their loyalty scheme. Everything is done automatically

[0762]

I spoke to someone yesterday who works for Hearts. Asked him about their loyalty scheme. Everything is done automatically

No surprise there. Pity we're being spun a line on this.

[Dancehibs]

I spoke to someone yesterday who works for Hearts. Asked him about their loyalty scheme. Everything is done automatically

I said similar thing days ago. Easy thing to implement

[Since90+2]

It's pretty obvious the cost is not prohibitive.

[danhibees1875]

No surprise there. Pity we're being spun a line on this.

That doesn't make it free - or even cheap - though, and the "line" from LD is that it devalues the Season Ticket - which she doesn't want to do.

[Ozyhibby]

That doesn't make it free - or even cheap - though, and the "line" from LD is that it devalues the Season Ticket - which she doesn't want to do.

100% correct.
I have some sympathy for those that go to most games missing out on big matches but I also agree that the value of the season ticket should be protected.
I think the away season ticket offers a good balance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HibeeHibernian4]

100% correct.
I have some sympathy for those that go to most games missing out on big matches but I also agree that the value of the season ticket should be protected.
I think the away season ticket offers a good balance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh that's nice, you have 'some sympathy' for fans who travel the length and breadth of Scotland to follow Hibs only to be told that some Johny-come-lately of an away fan has got a ticket for Tynecastle instead of them? The value of a season ticket is that you get access to 18 home league games throughout the season, as well as having a very good chance of securing away tickets to every single game if you so wish.

As I will explain for the very last time on this matter, a loyalty points system wouldn't stop people who don't venture out of EH7 from getting a Tynecastle ticket, it would just ensure that those who do are given first refusal, and even if our 1,000 strong loyal travelling support all buy a ticket, then there are 3,000 Roseburn tickets left.

This.
Is.
Fair.

[Dancehibs]

That doesn't make it free - or even cheap - though, and the "line" from LD is that it devalues the Season Ticket - which she doesn't want to do.

How much do ticketmaster charge for the functionality? They may do it for free

[Tynie01011973]

Oh that's nice, you have 'some sympathy' for fans who travel the length and breadth of Scotland to follow Hibs only to be told that some Johny-come-lately of an away fan has got a ticket for Tynecastle instead of them? The value of a season ticket is that you get access to 18 home league games throughout the season, as well as having a very good chance of securing away tickets to every single game if you so wish.

As I will explain for the very last time on this matter, a loyalty points system wouldn't stop people who don't venture out of EH7 from getting a Tynecastle ticket, it would just ensure that those who do are given first refusal, and even if our 1,000 strong loyal travelling support all buy a ticket, then there are 3,000 Roseburn tickets left.

This.
Is.
Fair.

10/10 This protecting the value of the ST argument is BS

[LancashireHibby]

I don’t see how a loyalty points system would devalue a season ticket as you’d still award x number of points for being a season ticket holder so they always get a shout ahead of non season ticket holders. Again, just speak to other clubs, ask what feedback they’ve had, how they set their parameters, whether they feel it’s had an effect on their season ticket sales and the like. Yes it arguably only has an effect on games at Hearts/Rangers/Celtic, but in reality that’s a sizeable percentage of away games over the course of a season.


How much do ticketmaster charge for the functionality? They may do it for free

It’s already built in to the set up and indeed is already in use to a certain extent so that people can’t buy for a Category A game without having prior booking history.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Oh that's nice, you have 'some sympathy' for fans who travel the length and breadth of Scotland to follow Hibs only to be told that some Johny-come-lately of an away fan has got a ticket for Tynecastle instead of them? The value of a season ticket is that you get access to 18 home league games throughout the season, as well as having a very good chance of securing away tickets to every single game if you so wish.

As I will explain for the very last time on this matter, a loyalty points system wouldn't stop people who don't venture out of EH7 from getting a Tynecastle ticket, it would just ensure that those who do are given first refusal, and even if our 1,000 strong loyal travelling support all buy a ticket, then there are 3,000 Roseburn tickets left.

This.
Is.
Fair.


this :agree:

[marinello59]

10/10 This protecting the value of the ST argument is BS

So there are 1000? diehards who go every week home and away and 14000 ST holders? That would suggest that the club do have to think about access to away tickets for the vast majority here so it's not bull. It night not reason enough in itself not to re-introduce a loyalty scheme but it is a consideration isn't it?

[danhibees1875]

How much do ticketmaster charge for the functionality? They may do it for free

Not sure, don't even know if it would come from ticket master. My general experience of IT systems would leave me surprised if they, or anyone, would just give us the extra functionality for free though.

[Eric]

100% correct.
I have some sympathy for those that go to most games missing out on big matches but I also agree that the value of the season ticket should be protected.
I think the away season ticket offers a good balance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The loyalty points system did protect the value of the season ticket in that ST holders were given their loyalty points on purchase of their ST whereas walk-ups built up their points over the length of the season.

I am all for loyalty points being reintroduced but, bearing in mind their purpose, renamed attendance points.:thumbsup:

[JeMeSouviens]

I don’t see how a loyalty points system would devalue a season ticket as you’d still award x number of points for being a season ticket holder so they always get a shout ahead of non season ticket holders. Again, just speak to other clubs, ask what feedback they’ve had, how they set their parameters, whether they feel it’s had an effect on their season ticket sales and the like. Yes it arguably only has an effect on games at Hearts/Rangers/Celtic, but in reality that’s a sizeable percentage of away games over the course of a season.



It’s already built in to the set up and indeed is already in use to a certain extent so that people can’t buy for a Category A game without having prior booking history.

Exactly. :agree:

eg.

400 pts ST
10 pts/home walk up
5 pts/away game

Means you can't outrank a ST by walking up but:

- ST+away games > ST and
- for cup finals etc. regular walk up > cup final woodwork vacator.

[Ozyhibby]

10/10 This protecting the value of the ST argument is BS

Take that up with Leeann.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

How much do ticketmaster charge for the functionality? They may do it for free

It’s not the functionality of the system that was costing the money. It was the constant queries from fans about their points or complaining about the level points were set at etc that cost the money. Every time someone phone up to ask a question it has to be dealt with and takes staff away from what they were doing.
I have no idea how much this cost but I was told it was an issue shortly before the whole thing was canned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dancehibs]

So there are 1000? diehards who go every week home and away and 14000 ST holders? That would suggest that the club do have to think about access to away tickets for the vast majority here so it's not bull. It night not reason enough in itself not to re-introduce a loyalty scheme but it is a consideration isn't it?

In your opinion it’s not bull. Other folk will think it’s bull.

[Dancehibs]

It’s not the functionality of the system that was costing the money. It was the constant queries from fans about their points or complaining about the level points were set at etc that cost the money. Every time someone phone up to ask a question it has to be dealt with and takes staff away from what they were doing.
I have no idea how much this cost but I was told it was an issue shortly before the whole thing was canned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A simple scheme using modern functionality, sounds a sensible option

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I struggle to understand why people feel it's fair for someone who goes to no away games but has a season ticket has the same chances of getting a ticket as somebody who goes to every away game and has a season ticket

You're right, it's not rocket science.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yeah but in a similar vein it’s not rocket science to think that all ST holders should have an equal opportunity.

It’s not that folk don’t understand your point of view, it’s just that some people see it differently.

There’s no right or wrong, just different views.

Again, why do you care if some people don’t see the merit in a loyalty scheme? No one here is a decision maker.

You need to convince the board to change their mind, not some strangers on here or social media.

[marinello59]

In your opinion it’s not bull. Other folk will think it’s bull.

Dismissing opposing opinions just because you don’t agree is bull. :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

It’s not the functionality of the system that was costing the money. It was the constant queries from fans about their points or complaining about the level points were set at etc that cost the money. Every time someone phone up to ask a question it has to be dealt with and takes staff away from what they were doing.
I have no idea how much this cost but I was told it was an issue shortly before the whole thing was canned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The communications couldn’t have been clear enough?

Or we’re just not as intelligent as Hearts fans who seem to be able to grasp it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Oh that's nice, you have 'some sympathy' for fans who travel the length and breadth of Scotland to follow Hibs only to be told that some Johny-come-lately of an away fan has got a ticket for Tynecastle instead of them? The value of a season ticket is that you get access to 18 home league games throughout the season, as well as having a very good chance of securing away tickets to every single game if you so wish.

As I will explain for the very last time on this matter, a loyalty points system wouldn't stop people who don't venture out of EH7 from getting a Tynecastle ticket, it would just ensure that those who do are given first refusal, and even if our 1,000 strong loyal travelling support all buy a ticket, then there are 3,000 Roseburn tickets left.

This.
Is.
Fair.

:top marks

[Dancehibs]

Dismissing opposing opinions just because you don’t agree is bull. :greengrin

Using an emoji has convinced me you’re correct

[Speedy]

It's pretty obvious the cost is not prohibitive.

How much does it cost to run?

[marinello59]

Using an emoji has convinced me you’re correct

It might not be. It’s just my opinion. :aok:

[hibbysam]

My opinion (and I’ve not read through all 8 pages so forgive me if someone else has said similar) is that we either need to h e a loyalty points scheme or we revert to a name in a hat ballot for tickets. It’s a lottery as it is but at the moment it’s an unfair lottery as it all depends on your work commitments, internet access/speeds, luck of whether the system kicks you out or not etc. If Leeann is genuine about not having LP’s then after AST holders getting tickets the remaining amount should go to a ballot for those lucky enough to come out.

[Dancehibs]

My opinion (and I’ve not read through all 8 pages so forgive me if someone else has said similar) is that we either need to h e a loyalty points scheme or we revert to a name in a hat ballot for tickets. It’s a lottery as it is but at the moment it’s an unfair lottery as it all depends on your work commitments, internet access/speeds, luck of whether the system kicks you out or not etc. If Leeann is genuine about not having LP’s then after AST holders getting tickets the remaining amount should go to a ballot for those lucky enough to come out.
Ballot would take ages for ticket staff to pull all the names out a hat. Cost of that scheme could stop Lenny buying players in January

[hibbysam]

Ballot would take ages for ticket staff to pull all the names out a hat. Cost of that scheme could stop Lenny buying players in January

I’m going to stick my neck on the line and say that of all the clubs to hold ballots, absolutely none of them literally ‘pull names from a hat’... I’d guarantee there’s a system in place already which makes it very simple indeed.

[Speedy]

I’m going to stick my neck on the line and say that of all the clubs to hold ballots, absolutely none of them literally ‘pull names from a hat’... I’d guarantee there’s a system in place already which makes it very simple indeed.

:greengrin:

Think it was a joke

[Carheenlea]

I disagree with the arguement that a Loyalty Point scheme devalues a season ticket. We have 14000 ST holders and bumper home crowds that were unthinkable a few years ago, but our travelling support hasn’t increased by that much from what it’s always been, and this suggests that most ST holders are happy taking their seat for home games, but for what will be a variety of different reasons, not as enthusiastic about travelling to away matches, and a Loyalty Scheme wouldn’t put that many fans off from renewing.

[Carheenlea]

Ballot would take ages for ticket staff to pull all the names out a hat. Cost of that scheme could stop Lenny buying players in January

A ballot would be fine if demand exceeded supply for every away match, but the only time this happens is at Ibrox, Celtic Park and Tynecastle. It’s only fair that those who travel regularly to the less in-demand fixtures are given first opportunity to buy for the high demand matches. Our travelling support is not at the numbers to require a regular ballot system, and to implement one for Ibrox, Celtic Park or Tynecastle would be unfair at present.

[marinello59]

I disagree with the arguement that a Loyalty Point scheme devalues a season ticket. We have 14000 ST holders and bumper home crowds that were unthinkable a few years ago, but our travelling support hasn’t increased by that much from what it’s always been, and this suggests that most ST holders are happy taking their seat for home games, but for what will be a variety of different reasons, not as enthusiastic about travelling to away matches, and a Loyalty Scheme wouldn’t put that many fans off from renewing.

That’s a more than decent point. I’m not so sure our away crowds haven’t increased though. It’s not so long ago that Ibrox, Tynecastle and Parkhead regularly went to public sale. But you are right, away crowds have not increased by as much as you would expect given the number of STs we have. You have me re-thinking my position on this.

[Dancehibs]

That’s a more than decent point. I’m not so sure our away crowds haven’t increased though. It’s not so long ago that Ibrox, Tynecastle and Parkhead regularly went to public sale. But you are right, away crowds have not increased by as much as you would expect given the number of STs we have. You have me re-thinking my position on this.

Also outside of the three fixtures mentioned above, all the other games all season ticket holders have access at the same time to get tickets. No issues and people don’t miss out.

There must be a simple solution to look after circa 1000 hardcore away fans

[Geo_1875]

Also outside of the three fixtures mentioned above, all the other games all season ticket holders have access at the same time to get tickets. No issues and people don’t miss out.

There must be a simple solution to look after circa 1000 hardcore away fans

There is a simple solution. Hibs could open up the away season ticket membership. Every die-hard would surely buy one. Hibs then hold a ballot for the games where away STs exceed the number of tickets available.

[HH81]

They don’t need compared. That’s a real irrelevance.

To the club it's not. A 400 quid purchase or an happy away traveller.

[hibbysam]

A ballot would be fine if demand exceeded supply for every away match, but the only time this happens is at Ibrox, Celtic Park and Tynecastle. It’s only fair that those who travel regularly to the less in-demand fixtures are given first opportunity to buy for the high demand matches. Our travelling support is not at the numbers to require a regular ballot system, and to implement one for Ibrox, Celtic Park or Tynecastle would be unfair at present.

Is it more unfair than the current system of trying to buy one through ticket master? I’d rather save the hassle of time off, frustrations etc just to have a lottery (this scenario is only my preference IF the club continue with the no LP’s stance).

[SChibs]

What the club is basically saying is unless you go to every single away game then you have the same rights as someone who goes to none but buys a season ticket.

[Hibeewilly]

Oh that's nice, you have 'some sympathy' for fans who travel the length and breadth of Scotland to follow Hibs only to be told that some Johny-come-lately of an away fan has got a ticket for Tynecastle instead of them? The value of a season ticket is that you get access to 18 home league games throughout the season, as well as having a very good chance of securing away tickets to every single game if you so wish.

As I will explain for the very last time on this matter, a loyalty points system wouldn't stop people who don't venture out of EH7 from getting a Tynecastle ticket, it would just ensure that those who do are given first refusal, and even if our 1,000 strong loyal travelling support all buy a ticket, then there are 3,000 Roseburn tickets left.

This.
Is.
Fair.
Very well put......bang on the money!!

[marinello59]

What the club is basically saying is unless you go to every single away game then you have the same rights as someone who goes to none but buys a season ticket.

Or you could say that the club values those who are putting a large amount of cash upfront in to our own club every season and don’t want to see them have no chance of tickets to away games. Spin it how you like.:greengrin
I have never seen attending football matches as a hardship so I have never felt I should be rewarded for being lucky enough to go to more games than most. There is no sacrifice involved that deserves any more recognition than other fans. A day out at the fitba is fun. Some of the attempts on here to divide the fans in to groups of diehards and Johnny come latelys is depressing. We’d all go every week if we could.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Or you could say that the club values those who are putting a large amount of cash upfront in to our own club every season and don’t want to see them have no chance of tickets to away games. Spin it how you like.:greengrin
I have never seen attending football matches as a hardship so I have never felt I should be rewarded for being lucky enough to go to more games than most. There is no sacrifice involved that deserves any more recognition than other fans. A day out at the fitba is fun. Some of the attempts on here to divide the fans in to groups of diehards and Johnny come latelys is depressing. We’d all go every week if we could.

Get your point J, however, some make sacrifices to follow the Club.

It's an expensive business, know a fair few who would travel to Venus on a Tuesday night. Not trying to be elitist or uber fan like, but do these people not deserve to be top of ticketing arrangements?

AST is great for some, but LP system would be fairer. Shame Club can't see that.

[B.H.F.C]

Get your point J, however, some make sacrifices to follow the Club.

It's an expensive business, know a fair few who would travel to Venus on a Tuesday night. Not trying to be elitist or uber fan like, but do these people not deserve to be top of ticketing arrangements?

AST is great for some, but LP system would be fairer. Shame Club can't see that.

As long as the club retain the AST scheme then I’ll be happy as it works for me. My fear is that one day they just pull the plug on that as they did with loyalty points.

Despite benefitting from this scheme I still think loyalty points would work better for all. For instance you might have some one who is a walk up at ER 10-12 times a season and attends the odd away game when they get a chance. When the next cup final comes round they’ll then have absolutely no priority and are lobbed in with the real day trippers.

[Crunchie]

It wasn't too long ago my account was showing well over 500 points and I was getting first bat at a ticket. Other than finals, I have to admit to not being interested in any away games, including the derbies. Been there, done it and bought the T-Shirt as they say, too many family commitments now and home games will do for me.

My point is I suspect I wasn't the only one and there will have been many more that were in my position, had the points but not interested.

There are pros and cons on both sides, but if it was up to me I'd go back to the old days of queuing outside the ground and that would be it. Done it for years in the wind and rain and is the fairest way imo. That'll be as popular as a Hearts win on here but there you have my tuppence worth :greengrin


PS I did go the semi at tynecastle and would do so again.

[Iggy Pope]

To the club it's not. A 400 quid purchase or an happy away traveller.

We had both at one point. No real brainier.

[LeithMike]

I'm undecided on this one, and think there are a number of viewpoints which hold merit but don't think there are absolute answers as some do.

I do think it is important that all season ticket holders get at least a chance of getting tickets to the derby at Tynecastle but don't see a problem in a portion being reserved to the fans attending most away games. Allocating all tickets based on attendance causes big problems to those who can't make a lot of away games for whatever reason (living elsewhere, family commitments, work affordability, etc). I wouldn't want to see a closed shop and think a person buying a season ticket is making a big commitment to the club. I don't think anyone could say a ST holder was undeserving of a ticket for the away derby. I do, however, think that the allocation of tickets at the moment is pretty hopeless (dependence on a pretty poor IT system) and the introduction of a ballot or the like would ensure a fairer distribution of tickets. I definitely don't think it should be solely down to attendance though as this effectively discriminates against those that can't afford to go every week - whether due to a lack of money or time. I don't think that's where we should be as a club.

A big furore also seemed to have been caused by the previous award of loyalty points for those who contributed to HSL. I get how people saw a problem with this as it was effectively rewarding those who could afford to put money into the club but there is a similar argument which could be made about attendance. And, if people think money put into the club shouldn't influence the award of away tickets, how do they feel about the hospitality memberships? I am not sure but think I've read before that a hospitality membership gives you priority for away tickets (without having to attend any away matches). It just goes to show that this area is a minefield and the club will never arrive at a truly popular or fair system. As I've said before though - the administration could certainly be improved on the current ticket scramble.

It's funny how things have changed over the last couple of years. I think if anyone had been told a few years ago that we'd have a good team worth following away from home and 15,000+ season ticket holders but that you might miss an odd derby now and again we'd all have taken it.

[Hermit Crab]

It wasn't too long ago my account was showing well over 500 points and I was getting first bat at a ticket. Other than finals, I have to admit to not being interested in any away games, including the derbies. Been there, done it and bought the T-Shirt as they say, too many family commitments now and home games will do for me.

My point is I suspect I wasn't the only one and there will have been many more that were in my position, had the points but not interested.

There are pros and cons on both sides, but if it was up to me I'd go back to the old days of queuing outside the ground and that would be it. Done it for years in the wind and rain and is the fairest way imo. That'll be as popular as a Hearts win on here but there you have my tuppence worth :greengrin


PS I did go the semi at tynecastle and would do so again.

How did you have well over 500 points then? :confused:

[Geo_1875]

I'm undecided on this one, and think there are a number of viewpoints which hold merit but don't think there are absolute answers as some do.

I do think it is important that all season ticket holders get at least a chance of getting tickets to the derby at Tynecastle but don't see a problem in a portion being reserved to the fans attending most away games. Allocating all tickets based on attendance causes big problems to those who can't make a lot of away games for whatever reason (living elsewhere, family commitments, work affordability, etc). I wouldn't want to see a closed shop and think a person buying a season ticket is making a big commitment to the club. I don't think anyone could say a ST holder was undeserving of a ticket for the away derby. I do, however, think that the allocation of tickets at the moment is pretty hopeless (dependence on a pretty poor IT system) and the introduction of a ballot or the like would ensure a fairer distribution of tickets. I definitely don't think it should be solely down to attendance though as this effectively discriminates against those that can't afford to go every week - whether due to a lack of money or time. I don't think that's where we should be as a club.

A big furore also seemed to have been caused by the previous award of loyalty points for those who contributed to HSL. I get how people saw a problem with this as it was effectively rewarding those who could afford to put money into the club but there is a similar argument which could be made about attendance. And, if people think money put into the club shouldn't influence the award of away tickets, how do they feel about the hospitality memberships? I am not sure but think I've read before that a hospitality membership gives you priority for away tickets (without having to attend any away matches). It just goes to show that this area is a minefield and the club will never arrive at a truly popular or fair system. As I've said before though - the administration could certainly be improved on the current ticket scramble.

It's funny how things have changed over the last couple of years. I think if anyone had been told a few years ago that we'd have a good team worth following away from home and 15,000+ season ticket holders but that you might miss an odd derby now and again we'd all have taken it.

The only flaw in your argument is referring to rewarding attendance when you are rewarding those that purchase tickets for away games. I know a few people who regularly purchased tickets for away games but passed them on while still gaining loyalty points. Due to this there were supporters who couldn't get nearer the top of the tree. This is a common problem at many clubs. West Ham have operated a points system for years but this year have introduced a ballot among all ST holders for 10% of away tickets. There had been complaints for years about dead people getting tickets for Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal away.

[PatHead]

One problem with loyalty points is that various people in a group can be on different tiers and you can’t all sit together when they are released in phases.

One thing I can guarantee is that if a loyalty points scheme is introduced there will still be people moaning about it not being right.

[Hermit Crab]

One problem with loyalty points is that various people in a group can be on different tiers and you can’t all sit together when they are released in phases.

One thing I can guarantee is that if a loyalty points scheme is introduced there will still be people moaning about it not being right.


You would have to take the chance and wait until you all become eligible. Or just sit apart from each other, its only 2hours.

[Dancehibs]

You would have to take the chance and wait until you all become eligible. Or just sit apart from each other, its only 2hours.

Also , it would only apply to three games a season.

[Geo_1875]

Also , it would only apply to three games a season.

Possibly 9 games.

[Dancehibs]

Possibly 9 games.

No chance. We don’t sell out any other games . No need to sell tickets In tranches

[Geo_1875]

No chance. We don’t sell out any other games . No need to sell tickets In tranches

Could be 3 away games each to Celtc, The Rangers and them. More with cup ties.

[hibbysam]

Could be 3 away games each to Celtc, The Rangers and them. More with cup ties.

We can never have 3 away league games to hearts, and would never have all three of those sides away 3 times in one season and if we got them in cups then we can just demand more tickets from rangers and Celtic, simple.

[Dancehibs]

Could be 3 away games each to Celtc, The Rangers and them. More with cup ties.

True . That’s what I meant to say. It’s just these fixtures