Poppy Scotland Hibernian Badge.

[wookie70]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

[Chic Murray]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

I think that's something that we'd be able to find out if they made the decision, otherwise it's a matter for speculation.

[Ringothedog]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.


There is nothing divisive at all, you either wear the poppy or you don't. My dad was as big a Hibs fan as you will find but wore his poppy with pride. I on the other hand don't make a conscious effort to wear one. I don't see any problem with our badge being used by Poppy Scotland

[wookie70]

There is nothing divisive at all, you either wear the poppy or you don't. My dad was as big a Hibs fan as you will find but wore his poppy with pride. I on the other hand don't make a conscious effort to wear one. I don't see any problem with our badge being used by Poppy Scotland
It is a badge with our crest and I'm sure there will be a number of posters like me who would rather our crest wasn't there. I presume the club has given permission and Poppy Scotland haven't stolen our image rights

[Kato]

More grist to the Jambos mill. They can now trash "Hibs Poppies" just like the do the Hibernian wreath laid at Haymarket every year.

[TheReg!]

It is a badge with our crest and I'm sure there will be a number of posters like me who would rather our crest wasn't there. I presume the club has given permission and Poppy Scotland haven't stolen our image rights

So you object to the Club putting the badge on a Poppy wreath which they do every year down the Haymarket? Thousands of Hibs fans have served and died for their country, there is no harm or political statement getting made just a mark of respect, maybe the prejudice is that of your own. I’m sure the club are happy to support a great cause in Poppy Scotland, long may it continue!

[green day]

It is a badge with our crest and I'm sure there will be a number of posters like me who would rather our crest wasn't there. I presume the club has given permission and Poppy Scotland haven't stolen our image rights

I know the heid mucker there - that scenario is highly unlikely

[flash]

Wrong forum.

[Vini1875]

I am unhappy about it. To say it is not political is just daft and every year it becomes more. If Hibs decided to not wear poppies there would be a media outcry. Just witness the grief James McLean suffered for exercising his freedom.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I wouldn't let them if it were up to me, but I can kinda see why they have. I will just exercise my right not to buy, or display one instead.

[lucky]

As fans we don’t get consulted on charity or commercial decisions the club make. This is no different so why should the club consult on this?

Have the club been consulted or given permission for Hibs fans to march in club colours on Saturday at the latest independence march?

Of course not but it’s probably more decisive than a poppy

[IGRIGI]

Let's leave this pish to the roasters at Celtic Park.

[Lancs Harp]

I am unhappy about it. To say it is not political is just daft and every year it becomes more. If Hibs decided to not wear poppies there would be a media outcry. Just witness the grief James McLean suffered for exercising his freedom.

Its political if you want it to be. Personally around remembrance day I'm only thinking about the poor souls who lost their loves fighting wars we could have all done without.

edit to add this annual "debate" has started a bit early this year.

We're all Hibs, remember that.

[Elephant Stone]

:sofa:

[Golden Bear]

Its political if you want it to be. Personally around remembrance day I'm only thinking about the poor souls who lost their loves fighting wars we could have all done without.

edit to add this annual "debate" has started a bit early this year.

We're all Hibs, remember that.

Exactly. I think I'll sign out at this stage, some of the posts make my blood boil.

[Beefster]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

I’m all for it, even though I don’t wear a poppy, so I suppose that evens it up.

What’s your objection to PoppyScotland’s work specifically?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

They already exist don’t they?

[BFG]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.
Do you own the design of the Hibs badge if not then what’s the problem? as others have said don’t buy one if you don’t want to, it’s not compulsory, but leave people to make there own decisions as whether to buy one or not

[Chic Murray]

Is it just me getting older, or do these debates start earlier every year?

I haven't even seen the DFS Christmas advert yet.

[Malthibby]

Its political if you want it to be. Personally around remembrance day I'm only thinking about the poor souls who lost their loves fighting wars we could have all done without.

edit to add this annual "debate" has started a bit early this year.

We're all Hibs, remember that.

That'll do for me as well.
GG

[Haymaker]

And so it begins...

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m all for it, even though I don’t wear a poppy, so I suppose that evens it up.

I’m with you.

No way the club should consult with fans on an issue like this.

Well done Hibs. Class.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why can't people just wear a poppy if they want to wear one? Club doesn't even need to do anything here.

[heid the baw]

I don't wear poppies. I don't wear Hibs badges.
That is the great thing about being an individual in a western democracy, you can make choices about whether you wear a badge or not.
Only a bigot would stop you wearing a poppy or a hibs badge or both.

[Elephant Stone]

I don't wear poppies. I don't wear Hibs badges.
That is the great thing about being an individual in a western democracy, you can make choices about whether you wear a badge or not.
Only a bigot would stop you wearing a poppy or a hibs badge or both.

Exactly. Just ask James Maclean about how tolerant people will be if you don't want to wear one on your strip.

[Keith_M]

Could somebody please give some background to what the OP is referring to.

I take it Poppy Scotland haven't replaced all Poppies with a Hibs badge, so what's he on about?

[Stairway 2 7]

The silent vast majority will be happy with hibs allowing use. Its the usual nitwits that would start an argument in an empty boozer that think people wearing poppies are celebrating war and not paying respect to the fallen

[Blaster]

If you want one, get one
If you don’t want one, don’t get one
Freedom of choice. Best left at that

[kaimendhibs]

Personally have loads more to worry about

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[Saturday Boy]

I’m actually quite pleased with this thread.

Being a bit of a collecting nerd, I would never have known about the badge. I choose not to wear a poppy, but I agree with the way Poppy Scotland use the money raised.

A sort of win, win, not win, win for me. I think.

On phone link attached:

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-hibernian-fc-centenary-pin.html

[Nakedmanoncrack]

As fans we don’t get consulted on charity or commercial decisions the club make. This is no different so why should the club consult on this?

Have the club been consulted or given permission for Hibs fans to march in club colours on Saturday at the latest independence march?

Of course not but it’s probably more decisive than a poppy

Not being consulted on some things, as justification for no consultation on anything?

Anyway, anyone attending that March on Sat is clearly doing so in a personal capacity, just as anyone attending Easter Rd wearing a poppy is making that choice. The club endorsing organisations is clearly very different.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

I’m actually quite pleased with this thread.

Being a bit of a collecting nerd, I would never have known about the badge. I choose not to wear a poppy, but I agree with the way Poppy Scotland use the money raised.

A sort of win, win, not win, win for me. I think.

On phone link attached:

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-hibernian-fc-centenary-pin.html

At least they are being honest this time - it's nothing to do with remembrance.

[Dr What If?]

There are those on the far right who try to 'own' the poppy, just as they pretend to 'support our forces'. Problem is they are morons and just because their horrid opinion of any kind of minority should be shunned, the poppy that they pretend to support should not. The poppy has nothing to do with nationalism or Britain winning a war, it is about the inhumanity of the war and the humanity of those that remember the lost.
When I put on a poppy I take a moment the remember the insanity of both WWI and WWII and I remember that this is what happens when you let the morons take charge.

[Elephant Stone]

The silent vast majority will be happy with hibs allowing use. Its the usual nitwits that would start an argument in an empty boozer that think people wearing poppies are celebrating war and not paying respect to the fallen

"A special edition Hibernian FC poppy pin badge to celebrate the end of the First World War. It features the Scottish poppy along side the club crest, and a ribbon with Centenary 1918-2018."

[Nakedmanoncrack]

There are those on the far right who try to 'own' the poppy, just as they pretend to 'support our forces'. Problem is they are morons and just because their horrid opinion of any kind of minority should be shunned, the poppy that they pretend to support should not. The poppy has nothing to do with nationalism or Britain winning a war, it is about the inhumanity of the war and the humanity of those that remember the lost.
When I put on a poppy I take a moment the remember the insanity of both WWI and WWII and I remember that this is what happens when you let the morons take charge.

It is explicitly stated that this badge has been struck "to celebrate the end of the First World War."

[blackpoolhibs]

I already have one. 21279

[Lancs Harp]

I think celebrating war and celebrating the end of a war are two different things. But people will see what they want to see.

[Elephant Stone]

I think celebrating war and celebrating the end of a war are two different things. But people will see what they want to see.

The first world war should be remembered for what it was, an absolute catastrophe. There is nothing to celebrate here. And you can draw a distinction between celebrating war and celebrating the end of the war if you want to be pedantic but looking back on this in a celebratory fashion ain't for me.

[Keith_M]

Having seen it, I'm confused as to what it is that some people are complaining about.

If you want to wear it, then do so. If you don''t like it, then don't buy it.


Why all the fuss?

:dunno:

[Paisley Hibby]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

Thanks for flagging this issue Wookie70. I don't have strong views about poppies but I'll probably now buy one and wear it just to annoy people who would have everybody toe their line.

[BFG]

I’m actually quite pleased with this thread.

Being a bit of a collecting nerd, I would never have known about the badge. I choose not to wear a poppy, but I agree with the way Poppy Scotland use the money raised.

A sort of win, win, not win, win for me. I think.

On phone link attached:

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-hibernian-fc-centenary-pin.html
Thanks for the link, went onto the store ended up buying 5 Hibs badges 1 Hearts badge ( Honest it’s for my wife’s brother in law, they live in Malta) and 4 poppy brooches so that’s over £100 that poppy Scotland would not have had if it hadn’t been for the OP starting the thread, possibly not the response he would have expected

[Hibbyradge]

"A special edition Hibernian FC poppy pin badge to celebrate the end of the First World War. It features the Scottish poppy along side the club crest, and a ribbon with Centenary 1918-2018."

That's not celebrating war. It's celebrating the ending of one.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

That's not celebrating war. It's celebrating the ending of one.

Celebrate away if you wish, I'm just glad the remembrance facade has been dropped now, and it's a bit more honest at least.

[Keith_M]

Celebrate away if you wish, I'm just glad the remembrance facade has been dropped now, and it's a bit more honest at least.

What's wrong with celebrating a war being over and peace beginning? Surely that's the exact opposite of celebrating war.

[Joe6-2]

Let's leave this pish to the roasters at Celtic Park.

This

[Hibbyradge]

Celebrate away if you wish, I'm just glad the remembrance facade has been dropped now, and it's a bit more honest at least.

This particular badge is celebrating 100 years since the end of a terrible war.

November 11 is still about remembrance.

If you want to make it about something else, crack on.

[Lancs Harp]

Pretty sure if I'd been unfortunate enough to live through 4 years of war I'd be celebrating its end. Thats glorifying sweet FA.

But no one is changing anyone elses entrenched viewpoints here. Like previous years a futile debate with no ground gained by anyone.

[Jones28]

I don't wear poppies. I don't wear Hibs badges.
That is the great thing about being an individual in a western democracy, you can make choices about whether you wear a badge or not.
Only a bigot would stop you wearing a poppy or a hibs badge or both.

This. If you don't want it, don't ****ing wear it.

[Elephant Stone]

This particular badge is celebrating 100 years since the end of a terrible war.

November 11 is still about remembrance.

If you want to make it about something else, crack on.

And the tanks, war planes and army recruitment vans that will be accompanying the giant poppies in places like St Andrew's Square are purely for remembrance too. :agree:

[BSEJVT]

My father was as big a British Legion man as you could get in that he believed that those that served their country could and should have been better looked after by it and was all in favour of anything that raised money to enable that to be so and devoted his adult life to championing the British Legion and supporting its aims.

I feel exactly the same way.

My father has been dead for 14 years but I don't ever remember us having a conversation during his lifetime about the rights and wrongs of any of the conflicts forces personnel fought in.

I don't think we ever thought beyond the fact that sometimes you need to fight for what you believe in or that you were directed to fight in by the government of the day and that you deserve the support of those you fought for when required.

Its not as if serving forces personnel have the right to decline to do so.

I always buy a poppy and in earlier life actively raised money for the appeal.

It saddens me hugely that people want to make political statements about what is essentially a fund raising exercise for those effected by their service whilst paying tribute to them and their fallen comrades.

There is no doubt an appropriate medium for those that want to debate the rights and wrongs of all and any of the conflicts fought and the exploitation of those that fought it, but I would respectfully suggest that a poppy appeal which isn't about the glorification of conflict isn't the right one.

Having said that the Hibs poppy linkage seems superfluous to me and whilst I will undoubtedly buy a poppy I wouldn't consider for a moment buying this one.

I have no problem with its existence and if raises even so much as 1p for the cause, good and well, I just don't see the resonance

I am all in favour of the club supporting the poppy appeal and Remembrance day this just seems quite an oddity to me.

[Fife-Hibee]

I think we all know what the poppy is supposed to represent. It's just a shame that it has been used and tarnished throughout very controversial periods by groups and government that should have kept their agendas well away from it.

If it hadn't been so blatantly glorified throughout those periods, then there wouldn't be such negativity surrounding it.

I take no issue with people using this for its intended purpose. It's those that abuse it that I find infuriating.

[murray26]

I stopped buying one a few years ago.. I feel it’s lost touch with its original meaning.. absolutely no problem with Hibs or anyone else supporting the cause and I will have a quiet reflection for those who fought and died for our freedom many years ago..

[BSEJVT]

I stopped buying one a few years ago.. I feel it’s lost touch with its original meaning.. absolutely no problem with Hibs or anyone else supporting the cause and I will have a quiet reflection for those who fought and died for our freedom many years ago..

Have absolutely no axe to grind with that viewpoint, the only thing I would say is that folk continue to be maimed and die fighting for that freedom today.

Because of the advances in medicine service people survive injuries today that would have killed them not so long ago.

The need for the success of the appeal is not diminishing in any way.

I would implore those that feel that the appeal has been hijacked to remember it basic purpose and that the money raised still finds it way to those it intended

[wookie70]

My main issue is that Poppy Scotland are seeking to cash in using Hibs and other clubs' crests. If they do so with Hibs permission then I feel like it is something that is worthy of discussion. Happy to disagree with those that don't have an issue and respect their right to do so and I won't break into tears with the very familiar abuse that gets slung around on this forum.

We may be a business and ran by a board but we are a football club and a part of the community. What we represents matters to fans and that crest, which obviously wasn't around 100 years ago, is incredibly symbolic, just as a Poppy is. Poppy symbolism has off course changed over the years and tat like the badge doesn't exactly help their image imo.

We usually do Remembrance Day in a very dignified way which I have always thought says much about the club and lets those of us that don't agree with wearing a Poppy feel comfortable in the quiet and respectful way events are conducted. A badge may seem trivial but it is essentially tat that is trying to make money and doing so on the back of our crest and therefor our name and reputation.

You can crack on and buy as many badges as you want. That is your choice. My main objection to Poppy Scotland is that the Poppy has absolutely nothing to do with remembrance in terms of trying to stop the atrocities of war. I would argue it is a facilitator of war, in a small way, by offering an insurance policy for those choosing to take part. Their mission, as stated in their Annual Report etc, is to support ex-service personnel. I also believe that is the Government's responsibility and they are essentially allowing or at least helping the Government wash their hands of the issue.

If you want to buy a badge or a Poppy then go ahead, I choose not to and would like our club to enter into debates of this nature with fans or at least acknowledge that they know an alternative view exists. If you do wear a Poppy you either do so for your own reasons or to support service workers. I choose not to for a variety of reasons and you are living in a bubble if you think that the Poppy is not divisive or political.

I may have wore a Poppy if I was around after the second world war but many subsequent wars were undertaken for far less noble reasons and some were illegal. The service men and women who latterly served were doing so voluntarily and to me are no different to any other worker. They deserve their employer, the Government, to look after them if something goes wrong. They are however being supported by an organisation that in my opinion does more to glorify war than to stop it. That is an incredibly handy position for UK Governments who have pretty much constantly been at war since the first world war ended and not always in foreign lands.

[PONGO]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

**** off with this ****

[Carheenlea]

I stopped buying one a few years ago.. I feel it’s lost touch with its original meaning.. absolutely no problem with Hibs or anyone else supporting the cause and I will have a quiet reflection for those who fought and died for our freedom many years ago..

100% share your view :agree:

[Sir David Gray]

I used to get het up about this issue and get really involved in debates but this thread is just a carbon copy of threads which have appeared on here around this time of year, every single year and people keep bringing up the same arguments and counter arguments and never getting anywhere.

If you want to wear a poppy then wear one, if you don't want to wear a poppy then don't.

Those who choose not to wear one can thank those people who fought for this country in the two world wars, and whose memory the poppy is supposed to represent, that they have the freedom of expression to say what they want, believe what they want and wear what they want.

[murray26]

Have absolutely no axe to grind with that viewpoint, the only thing I would say is that folk continue to be maimed and die fighting for that freedom today.

Because of the advances in medicine service people survive injuries today that would have killed them not so long ago.

The need for the success of the appeal is not diminishing in any way.

I would implore those that feel that the appeal has been hijacked to remember it basic purpose and that the money raised still finds it way to those it intended

I have a lot of respect for people like yourself your sincerity shines through and I can tell you whole heartedly believe in the appeal but it’s not for me anymore.. it’s to commercialised and feels like a political statement rather than what it should be.. I also feel it’s the governments responsibility to support war veterans/ families etc.. anyway that’s just my choice but can understand why people like yourself are still very passionate about it.

[FranckSuzy]

Since Hibs, amongst other clubs, wear a strip bearing a poppy around the 11th of November, I would be very surprised if official permission had not been sought.

Re the actual production of the poppy badge alongside the Hibs crest, IMHO everyone is entitled to purchase/wear one if they so wish but how would it have been received if Hibs had not allowed this enterprise to go ahead? They are damned if they do etc, etc.

[Ringothedog]

**** off with this ****

Is he not allowed to have an opinion? Or is debating barred if it doesn’t agree with the majority view?

[Elephant Stone]

I used to get het up about this issue and get really involved in debates but this thread is just a carbon copy of threads which have appeared on here around this time of year, every single year and people keep bringing up the same arguments and counter arguments and never getting anywhere.

If you want to wear a poppy then wear one, if you don't want to wear a poppy then don't.

Those who choose not to wear one can thank those people who fought for this country in the two world wars, and whose memory the poppy is supposed to represent, that they have the freedom of expression to say what they want, believe what they want and wear what they want.

Why wouldn't they already be grateful and sorry for people who died fighting in wars for the country? Does not wearing a poppy imply that they're not?

[Brizo]

Ill be wearing a poppy around about the time of remembrance Sunday but not a poppy/ Hibs lapel badge.

I don't like the linking of the poppy with any football club in this way, to me its got all the wrong undertones and demeans the remembrance... but obviously that's just my opinion.

If its use has been approved by the club they would maybe have been in a difficult position to say no as the media would have a field day. Is it to early in October to use the term "poppy fascists"! :wink:

Of course , if the badge was to accurately mark the 100 year centenary the Hibs badge in 1918 was the harp and shamrocks. A poppy / harp and shamrocks lapel badge with the motto "Erin Go Bragh" would certainly confuse the OF and the diets :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Why wouldn't they already be grateful and sorry for people who died fighting in wars for the country? Does not wearing a poppy imply that they're not?

I'm simply pointing out that those who choose not to wear a poppy have those people who died in the World Wars to thank, and whose memory the poppy commemorates, for having the freedom to choose not to wear a poppy instead of living under a fascist dictatorship, had WWII ended differently.

Surely you can't disagree with that?

[Elephant Stone]

I'm simply pointing out that those who choose not to wear a poppy have those people who died in the World Wars to thank, and whose memory the poppy commemorates, for having the freedom to choose not to wear a poppy instead of living under a fascist dictatorship, had WWII ended differently.

Surely you can't disagree with that?

I think people are grateful already that we're not living under a fascist dictatorship and it's pretty poor to insinuate that people who don't wear poppies are somehow less grateful or less aware of the sacrifices made.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm simply pointing out that those who choose not to wear a poppy have those people who died in the World Wars to thank, and whose memory the poppy commemorates, for having the freedom to choose not to wear a poppy instead of living under a fascist dictatorship, had WWII ended differently.

Surely you can't disagree with that?

If WWII had ended differently, who really knows how things would have looked right now. I'm obviously not suggesting that it's a bad thing that we defeated Germany. But it's purely hypothetical hogwash to suggest that we would be living under some awful regime right now. Unless you've been warped into some sort of parallel universe, it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty how things would be right now.

People always have the freedom to choose a fascist dictatorship, which would more than likely give birth to another war for freedom. The same freedom that was used to elect the fascist government.

[Chic Murray]

I'm simply pointing out that those who choose not to wear a poppy have those people who died in the World Wars to thank, and whose memory the poppy commemorates, for having the freedom to choose not to wear a poppy instead of living under a fascist dictatorship, had WWII ended differently.

Surely you can't disagree with that?

How could anybody? It's so objective.

[BSEJVT]

I have a lot of respect for people like yourself your sincerity shines through and I can tell you whole heartedly believe in the appeal but it’s not for me anymore.. it’s to commercialised and feels like a political statement rather than what it should be.. I also feel it’s the governments responsibility to support war veterans/ families etc.. anyway that’s just my choice but can understand why people like yourself are still very passionate about it.

Firstly many thanks for discussing this issue

I had feared that debating another's viewpoint courteously on Hibs Net was a lost art, thankfully its not.

Fully understand where you are coming from and we can certainly agree that it is the governments responsibility to support them, sadly IMO governments of any particular hue over my adult lifetime have failed to do so and show no intention of doing so going forward, which is why I believe fervently in the appeal and its continued success.

The commercialisation of it is a difficult circle to square, some would argue that its necessary to raise funds as those that lived through the major conflicts are becoming fewer and donations are falling.

I think the whole fundraising sector is suffering from over commercialisation as there are so many deserving causes and its not possible to support them all, so what was once a donation made has become a donation sought.

There is absolutely no doubt that this is off-putting for some and discourages them in donating and we will all have limited budgets and some causes which are closer to our hearts than others and sadly choices need to be made as to who gets what.

I would never criticise anyone for donating to "their" cause in preference to another or choosing not to or not being able to donate to any.

Politicisation of anything or seeing something as having been politicised is very much again a personal thing.

What's seems political to me may not to you or vice versa, whereas others would see everything as politicised and others still, nothing.

Things seem so much more complicated now than when I was younger, my affinity with the poppy appeal grew from a belief that we should look after the people who protect us better and this seemed an admirable and easy way of allowing those who thought the same to do so, nothing more and with no thought of ulterior motives being behind it.

Sitting here now though it seems over simplified in that if I believed that why would I not naturally extend that to our emergency services, for whom afaik nothing of the sort happens.

I guess we are all conditioned by our experiences and upbringing.

[AngloHibs]

My first thought was to buy one, but then I started thinking that they look a bit tacky. Also, the postage charge is almost as much again as the price of the badge.

I'll just put a fiver in the box when I get my poppy - the charity gets more money and I save a bit.

[greenpaper55]

My mums young brother was Hibs daft, killed at age 21 out in the far east, nice to know that some on here don't want to remember him and the many others that paid the ultimate sacrifice.

[Pretty Boy]

Just another way for the poppy to become further removed from the meaning it had.

'Support our boys by making an aggressive post on social media'

'Show your respect by feeding your dog from a poppy branded dog bowl'

'Show your commitment to freedom by hounding someone for not wearing a poppy on TV in October'

'Honour the wasted lives of WWI with a tacky football branded poppy'

[Sir David Gray]

I think people are grateful already that we're not living under a fascist dictatorship and it's pretty poor to insinuate that people who don't wear poppies are somehow less grateful or less aware of the sacrifices made.

Cheers I'm out. Life's too short.

[e2los]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-hibernian-fc-centenary-pin.html

On the fence with this regarding using hibs badge with a poppy, but think it's dishonest regarding the price.

It says £3 on their web site then:



We pack your order & despatch it using 1st Class Royal Mail Signed For Parcel service. To enable us to ensure your products arrive with you safely, all our orders are sent via recorded delivery.

International orders are sent by Airmail using the International Royal Mail Signed For Service.

A £1 handling charge is added to all deliveries to cover packaging.

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If you select delivery to the UK the badge doesn't cost £5, it doesn't cost £4 it doesn't cost £3.

It costs £5.89.

About:
https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/about-us


This store is owned and operated under license by The Business Incentives Group Limited (The BiGroup)

The Business Incentives Group Limited is a vertical service provider who specialise in the sales and promotion of licensed merchandising.

Maybe it's just me being cynical, but this badge doesn't seem even in the slightest way representative of a moment of reflection and remembrance.

I could be wrong, but it totally fails for me as a way of donating to and respecting victims of war.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC347368/officers

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/904222411/ALAN--ADIE/companies

[weecounty hibby]

Threads like this make me want to weep!! I may well buy one. I always buy a poppy around about this time. people who know me and some who read the Holy Ground on here will no my politics and Im no lover of the British state but this is about remembering the mostly working class young men and women who died or were injured, and continue to be so, while doing a job that we have all benefited from. Well done Hibs for trying to help with that. Its not our fault that some organisations, from all sides, have tried to hijack the poppy for political gain. Wear it or not but it shouldnt be politicised. This will be the last time I open this thread as it will no doubt go the way all the others have

[BullsCloseHibs]

Let's leave this pish to the roasters at Celtic Park.

How about The Rangers whilst yer at it. The Armed forces club n aw that pish.

[linlithgowhibbie]

So you object to the Club putting the badge on a Poppy wreath which they do every year down the Haymarket? Thousands of Hibs fans have served and died for their country, there is no harm or political statement getting made just a mark of respect, maybe the prejudice is that of your own. I’m sure the club are happy to support a great cause in Poppy Scotland, long may it continue!

10/10:thumbsup:

[Frazerbob]

This place has some right tits theses days.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-hibernian-fc-centenary-pin.html

On the fence with this regarding using hibs badge with a poppy, but think it's dishonest regarding the price.

It says £3 on their web site then:




If you select delivery to the UK the badge doesn't cost £5, it doesn't cost £4 it doesn't cost £3.

It costs £5.89.

About:
https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/about-us



Maybe it's just me being cynical, but this badge doesn't seem even in the slightest way representative of a moment of reflection and remembrance.

I could be wrong, but it totally fails for me as a way of donating to and respecting victims of war.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC347368/officers

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/904222411/ALAN--ADIE/companies


I wonder what happened to the Lady Haig place that made poppies down by Powderhall, Easter Warriston way. It seemed like poppies were made by a local charitable concern and I would guess that the money raised was deployed locally too.

Have to say, poppy or no poppy, using football badges as a selling point strikes me a tad cynical and not in keeping with the spirt of commemoration.

[One Day Soon]

Oh. My. God.

[nonshinyfinish]

My mums young brother was Hibs daft, killed at age 21 out in the far east, nice to know that some on here don't want to remember him and the many others that paid the ultimate sacrifice.

The act of remembrance is not contingent on wearing a poppy.

Leaving aside the tired arguments that we have every year, what I don’t get about this particular badge is why it exists at all. If we take the generous view that the modern poppy encompasses only its original, laudable purpose of remembering the dead, then why would you need to tack on a football club badge to sell more of them?

[Sammy7nil]

This place has some right tits theses days.

:greengrin:aok:

[Scotty Leither]

I'll criticise and praise the club/Board on football and financial matters, but I wouldn't offer one critical word on this issue, because they really can't win here.

They don't commemorate the war dead, they get panned from certain quarters, if they're seen to be kow-towing to the received wisdom that all clubs should lend their corporate identity to poppy bages, they get in the neck from a section of their own fans.

I personally find the politicizing of the poppy distasteful, and I was bewildered at the faux outrage of the press and Theresa May over Scotland and England "defying" FIFA's ban on wearing it on their strip(s).

I don't even like minute's silences/applause at football matches for public figures other than ex-players, because unfortunately in Scotland there's always an agenda waiting to be pushed by our own ****my press and media.

I'll wear my own metallic poppy badge when I go to South Leith church on Remembrance Sunday, as the service there has an understated quiet dignity about it.

I always associate the poppy with World War One, and at that same service I'll pause to reflect on the loss of life of mainly working-class lads and lassies on both sides, all on the back of a spat between the European aristocracy at the time that escalated into millions of needless deaths, and subsequent conflicts where we never seemed to have learned the lessons of the past.

I'm with the posters on here who will be happy with any further steps the club feels is appropriate; leave the jingoistic grandstanding and OTT protests against the poppy to a certain two other clubs 45 miles west, eh?

[Fife-Hibee]

The act of remembrance is not contingent on wearing a poppy.

Leaving aside the tired arguments that we have every year, what I don’t get about this particular badge is why it exists at all. If we take the generous view that the modern poppy encompasses only its original, laudable purpose of remembering the dead, then why would you need to tack on a football club badge to sell more of them?

Excellent point that will be completely overlooked.

[Hibrandenburg]

It is a badge with our crest and I'm sure there will be a number of posters like me who would rather our crest wasn't there. I presume the club has given permission and Poppy Scotland haven't stolen our image rights

Don't wear it then. I'm sure there's at least the same number of Hibs fans who have no problem with it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The annual .net poppy debate seems to be similar to shops stocking Christmas goods: it happens earlier every year.

I think we all know some support such initiatives and others don't. The club has decided to help raise funds in this way, which, like every other decision it makes, will arouse various opinions. The club isn't a democratic institution: the decision has been taken and that's that. Now folk must decide whether to buy one or not. The wearing of the poppy has been politicised in recent years, which is sad. It's a matter of individual conscience in the end; nobody should be applauded or castigated either way.

[Pete]

*Insert opinion here*

[Paul1642]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.

Idiot

[Fife-Hibee]

Idiot

I suppose you think anyone with a differing view to your own is an idiot, as clearly you're the source of knowledge of all that is right and just in the world.

[Greenfly]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to forever repeat it" - George Santayana.

I think it looks a bit cheapo and I find the whole concept of linking the poppy with a modern football badge to be a bit tacky. But I'll be wearing my poppy this year as always as a reminder of the stupidity, suffering, sacrifice and all the other horrors of war that I don't want to see again. That's what I'll be thinking about when I stand in silence and most folk I know wear their poppy for similar reasons and nothing to do with jingoism or any patriotic nonsense.

[tonyrougier123]

Who at Hibs would make the decision to allow Poppy Scotland permission to use our crest on a badge. No issue if you want to wear a poppy but I and other fans may have a different opinion and it is certainly a divisive issue each year. I'd like to know what the thought process was if the club gave permission and we're all fans views considered.
What might you be apposed to exactly?im confused, I thought the poppy represented remembering fallen servicemen and women,whilst serving as a reminder of the toils and great loss war brings,ultimately ensuring history doesnt repeat itself.it hardly represents celebrating with a piss up and a sing song about how great war is!!

[JK Rolling]

Is it just me getting older, or do these debates start earlier every year?

I haven't even seen the DFS Christmas advert yet.



This.

Also, Chic - Are you aware if the Richard F Mackay sale is over yet, I've been meaning to pop in to see what's on offer, since 1987.

[green day]

What a ridiculous thread.

I'm more concerned that Sainsbury's had their Christmas stuff out today.

[monktonharp]

The silent vast majority will be happy with hibs allowing use. Its the usual nitwits that would start an argument in an empty boozer that think people wearing poppies are celebrating war and not paying respect to the fallen? says you?is that the official line then?you being the main part of this silent majority.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Objectively, they look pretty tacky and seem a bit crass. I don't need to squeeze the football club I support into the way I honour the fallen from wars.

However, on a more personal (and perhaps controversial) note, I really don't like to see our club associated with the poppy. If people wish to wear it, they are absolutely entitled to do so and I have absolutely no objections to anybody wearing a poppy at a Hibs game, but I do not like our club being seen as taking a stance on this - somewhat divisive - issue.

[monktonharp]

At least they are being honest this time - it's nothing to do with remembrance.the Big group. helping all over the world no doubt
:rolleyes:

[Paul1642]

I suppose you think anyone with a differing view to your own is an idiot, as clearly you're the source of knowledge of all that is right and just in the world.

Not at all. Just that someone questioning the fact that our club has allowed our badge to be used on a poppy rather annoys me. Hibernian fc had 9 players and 11 former players serve during ww1, 9 of which never returned home. I cannot find the numbers for ww2 but would assume the are similar. Since then we have had Korea, Falkland, Gulf, NI, Iraq And Afghan which the team might have not been involved in but fans and family of fans have served. The poppy has never been a symbol of supporting any war but rather of remembering the unfortunate dead of these conflicts and their family’s left behind. So yes. I have no issue whatsoever with thinking the OP is and idiot. Perhaps Op will find more support on Kerrdale Street

[monktonharp]

Objectively, they look pretty tacky and seem a bit crass. I don't need to squeeze the football club I support into the way I honour the fallen from wars.

However, on a more personal (and perhaps controversial) note, I really don't like to see our club associated with the poppy. If people wish to wear it, they are absolutely entitled to do so and I have absolutely no objections to anybody wearing a poppy at a Hibs game, but I do not like our club being seen as taking a stance on this - somewhat divisive - issue. I do agree, and recognise your personal concerns. my view is,probably different to yours but, this "new" poppy group have somehow risen since 2006 which is nothing to do with the origins of the Poppy appeal. they claim to be assisting "veterans" , which I think should be covered by the government or the military establishments and not purely by a "registered" charity.! I smell a rat, when you look at the way they portray themselves. how much % is actually going to the ex-forces personnel? and how much to the so called charity. why do they need to support and supply services to ex-servicemen/women? do the relevant services just throw them out when their service period ends, don't help them with housing/civilian training or pensions already? I just don't get it.

[Fife-Hibee]

Not at all. Just that someone questioning the fact that our club has allowed our badge to be used on a poppy rather annoys me. Hibernian fc had 9 players and 11 former players serve during ww1, 9 of which never returned home. I cannot find the numbers for ww2 but would assume the are similar. Since then we have had Korea, Falkland, Gulf, NI, Iraq And Afghan which the team might have not been involved in but fans and family of fans have served. The poppy has never been a symbol of supporting any war but rather of remembering the unfortunate dead of these conflicts and their family’s left behind. So yes. I have no issue whatsoever with thinking the OP is and idiot

Hibs players, Hibs fans. Football players, football fans. Rugby players, rugby fans. Golf players, golf fans. Darts players, darts fans. Snooker players, snooker fans, people who just down right hate any sport of any kind...

People of all sorts fought and died in the wars. It doesn't however mean that it's necessary to associate the poppy with everything that everybody who died in the wars happened to be associated with.

What's wrong with people just wearing a good old regular poppy? This isn't remberence, this is merchandising. Somebody somewhere will be profiting out of this. Profiting out of the memory of the fallen.

[monktonharp]

This place has some right tits theses days.easy for you to say:rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

The annual .net poppy debate seems to be similar to shops stocking Christmas goods: it happens earlier every year.
.It has started rather early this year though has it not. Not seen one BBC news Presenter with a poppy yet. maybe I'm wrong, and their camera crews are all kitted oot wi them.

[Fife-Hibee]

Poppy Scotland have since 1922 never been a for profit origination and I highly doubt they ever will be. I sincerely doubt our club has took a fee to allow our badge to be used. No one is profiting out of he memory of the falling in this case. And yes people from all walks of life unfortunately lost their lives. This is why near enough every town in Britain has a war memorial of some sort....

I'm not accusing Poppy Scotland of making profits, or the club of making profits. However not all of your money is going towards the cause. Some of that money will be going towards production costs, some of it will be going towards delivery costs and there may be other undisclosed fees hidden in there. There will be 3rd party companies involved. I would much rather stick some money in a Poppy Scotland charity box and pick up a standard poppy, that way I can at least be more confident that the vast builk of my contribution is going towards the intended cause and not some 3rd party company.

[Paul1642]

Hibs players, Hibs fans. Football players, football fans. Rugby players, rugby fans. Golf players, golf fans. Darts players, darts fans. Snooker players, snooker fans, people who just down right hate any sport of any kind...

People of all sorts fought and died in the wars. It doesn't however mean that it's necessary to associate the poppy with everything that everybody who died in the wars happened to be associated with.

What's wrong with people just wearing a good old regular poppy? This isn't remberence, this is merchandising. Somebody somewhere will be profiting out of this. Profiting out of the memory of the fallen.

Poppy Scotland have been a non for profit ordination since 1922 and I doubt they ever shall be for proft. I also highly doubt anyone at our club has took a fee for use of our badge. No one is using the fallen for proft in this case. Yes people all over Britain lost their lives henc whey their is a war memorial in near enough every town / city. If someone wants to associate their rememberence with any club ext for whatever reason who are we to object.....

[Paul1642]

I'm not accusing Poppy Scotland of making profits, or the club of making profits. However not all of your money is going towards the cause. Some of that money will be going towards production costs, some of it will be going towards delivery costs and there may be other undisclosed fees hidden in there. There will be 3rd party companies involved. I would much rather stick some money in a Poppy Scotland charity box and pick up a standard poppy, that way I can at least be more confident that the vast builk of my contribution is going towards the intended cause and not some 3rd party company.

Then do so. It will be greatly appreciated by someone. Doesn’t make anyone connecting their poppy to an origination whatever it may be wrong to do so

[monktonharp]

Not at all. Just that someone questioning the fact that our club has allowed our badge to be used on a poppy rather annoys me. Hibernian fc had 9 players and 11 former players serve during ww1, 9 of which never returned home. I cannot find the numbers for ww2 but would assume the are similar. Since then we have had Korea, Falkland, Gulf, NI, Iraq And Afghan which the team might have not been involved in but fans and family of fans have served. The poppy has never been a symbol of supporting any war but rather of remembering the unfortunate dead of these conflicts and their family’s left behind. So yes. I have no issue whatsoever with thinking the OP is and idiot. Perhaps Op will find more support on Kerrdale Streetyou missed out a couple. the Mao Mao, Aden, Palestine etc all in the fight for liberty.ex army are you?

[majorhibs]

What. a. Bunch. of. f*nnys. etc.

[Paul1642]

you missed out a couple. the Mao Mao, Aden, Palestine etc all in the fight for liberty.ex army are you?

As i stated, the poppy had never been a symbol of supporting any conflict. This thread needs moved out of the main forum.

[majorhibs]

Sorry, BS, slaver away elsewhere. What nonsense!

Sorry wrong poster

[hibbiedon]

I
So you object to the Club putting the badge on a Poppy wreath which they do every year down the Haymarket? Thousands of Hibs fans have served and died for their country, there is no harm or political statement getting made just a mark of respect, maybe the prejudice is that of your own. I’m sure the club are happy to support a great cause in Poppy Scotland, long may it continue!

I have just returned from a training course run by poppy Scotland, a break down on where the money collected goes was given. To say I was shocked is an understatement, whilst it may be a great cause for a few for the majority it is not, I’m sad to say

[.Sean.]

Can I just say thank you to the OP for highlighting these badges as I’ve just purchased a couple, and can I also say to the OP away and take that pish to the Green Brigade section at Parkheed.

[Hibs1969]

"A special edition Hibernian FC poppy pin badge to celebrate the end of the First World War. It features the Scottish poppy along side the club crest, and a ribbon with Centenary 1918-2018."
Perhaps ‘commemorate’ might be a more appropriate phrase.

[blackpoolhibs]

I always wear a poppy every year, that is my decision. If you dont want to wear one, then that is fine, dont wear one.

I dont know the figures, but it does seem to me that the amount of poppies i see each year is diminishing, and perhaps the variations of them are to try and pull in more money, because its needed more than ever?

[Hibbyradge]

I

I have just returned from a training course run by poppy Scotland, a break down on where the money collected goes was given. To say I was shocked is an understatement, whilst it may be a great cause for a few for the majority it is not, I’m sad to say

I feel you should elucidate ...

[HibeeHibernian4]

Can I just say thank you to the OP for highlighting these badges as I’ve just purchased a couple, and can I also say to the OP away and take that pish to the Green Brigade section at Parkheed.

So not all (fairly mild) political opinions are tolerated at Hibs then? Good to know.

[oldbutdim]

I feel you should elucidate ...

This is quite informative.

https://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Annual-Report-Accounts-2016-2017.pdf

[Fife-Hibee]

I always wear a poppy every year, that is my decision. If you dont want to wear one, then that is fine, dont wear one.

I dont know the figures, but it does seem to me that the amount of poppies i see each year is diminishing, and perhaps the variations of them are to try and pull in more money, because its needed more than ever?

A large chunk of the money isn't going towards the actual cause with these variations. So the focus is no longer on those who need the money, but rather those who can profit from it. People will buy them though, as long as it makes them feel good about themselves, while giving absolutely zero consideration as to where the money is actually going. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[CropleyWasGod]

A large chunk of the money isn't going towards the actual cause with these variations. So the focus is no longer on those who need the money, but rather those who can profit from it. People will buy them though, as long as it makes them feel good about themselves, while giving absolutely zero consideration as to where the money is actually going. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

If they are bought by people who would otherwise not buy a poppy or contribute in any way, then it's a gain for the charity.

[Fife-Hibee]

If they are bought by people who would otherwise not buy a poppy or contribute in any way, then it's a gain for the charity.

Yes, but why not just purchase a normal one, thus giving considerably more directly to the charity? Is it really worth giving a charity less money, just so you can wear one with a Hibs badge included on it?

If that's the case, then it's not longer about the charity or the cause that it stands for.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, but why not just purchase a normal one, thus giving considerably more directly to the charity? Is it really worth giving a charity less money, just so you can wear one with a Hibs badge included on it?

If that's the case, then it's not longer about the charity or the cause that it stands for.

....but the charity profits, which is the most important thing.

Why they prefer the badge is not really the issue, and neither should it be anyone's concern. Whoever thought of this scheme should be complimented for opening up a stream of income that might not otherwise have existed.

[alhibby]

One thing this thread has done is to allow me to buy a couple of badges I previously knew nothing about, I will also buy the ordinary type poppy at the appropriate time and wear it to commemorate those that were killed, not to glorify war

[Fife-Hibee]

....but the charity profits, which is the most important thing.

Why they prefer the badge is not really the issue, and neither should it be anyone's concern. Whoever thought of this scheme should be complimented for opening up a stream of income that might not otherwise have existed.

Indeed. A stream of income. Much of which isn't streamed to the charity or the actual cause but to somebody making a neat wee profit out of it.

We're obviously never going to agree on this issue. Others can do whatever they want, but i'll just purchase a regular poppy, as I don't see it's association with Hibernian Football Club as a requirement.

[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed. A stream of income. Much of which isn't streamed to the charity or the actual cause but to somebody making a neat wee profit out of it.

We're obviously never going to agree on this issue. Others can do whatever they want, but i'll just purchase a regular poppy, as I don't see it's association with Hibernian Football Club as a requirement.

...but some of which is. Which they might not have had otherwise.

The world is full of companies making "a neat wee profit" out of charities, and of professional fundraisers. The fact is that charities are operating in a difficult and competitive market, where attracting public donations is not easy. Hence why they have to become commercially aware, find their niche and identify ways of squeezing donations out of an increasingly-cynical public.

That is all very corporate-speak, and deliberately so, but it's reality.

[Curried]

This is quite informative.

https://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Annual-Report-Accounts-2016-2017.pdf


I guess it’s no surprise to see Haig’s name on these deplorable accounts :-(

[CropleyWasGod]

I guess it’s no surprise to see Haig’s name on these deplorable accounts :-(

If I'm reading those accounts correctly, they make a whopping loss on the sale of poppies. The related costs are about twice the income.

Not that profit is the main issue, of course, but it does demonstrate the need to find alternative income.

[Chic Murray]

I guess it’s no surprise to see Haig’s name on these deplorable accounts :-(

What do you mean?

[Curried]

What do you mean?

It’s an ironic statement regarding Field Marshal Douglas Haig’s grasp on numbers……Hope that helps.

[Chic Murray]

It’s an ironic statement regarding Field Marshal Douglas Haig’s grasp on numbers……Hope that helps.

It does, very much. I didn't get the joke that's all.

[Curried]

There is no Joke.

[Chic Murray]

There is no Joke.

Right you are then. :confused: Perhaps some irony? (Can't remember if you said it was ironic, but I certainly think it is.)

[steakbake]

Just seems more militarist merchandise for conspicuous acts of remembrance. What does it say? That we remember Hibs fans only? That Hibs were uniquely involved? That Hibs fans remember? I don’t see the point of the tie up.

But then, I don’t wear the poppy and haven’t done so probably since I was at school. Every year, it seems to get increasingly mawkish, commercialised and pious. I don’t want to be part of that.

[Beefster]

Just seems more militarist merchandise for conspicuous acts of remembrance. What does it say? That we remember Hibs fans only? That Hibs were uniquely involved? That Hibs fans remember? I don’t see the point of the tie up.

But then, I don’t wear the poppy and haven’t done so probably since I was at school. Every year, it seems to get increasingly mawkish, commercialised and pious. I don’t want to be part of that.

PoppyScotland is doing what it can to raise money for their aim. If that means sticking a football club badge on a pin badge, why not? It’s not really any different from Marie Curie selling Christmas cards (unless cancer has an association with Christmas that I’m missing).

I have a PoppyScotland cycling bottle for what it’s worth. I’ve never even thought about if I’m doing a disservice to ex-servicemen who jog.

[danhibees1875]

PoppyScotland is doing what it can to raise money for their aim. If that means sticking a football club badge on a pin badge, why not? It’s not really any different from Marie Curie selling Christmas cards (unless cancer has an association with Christmas that I’m missing).

I have a PoppyScotland cycling bottle for what it’s worth. I’ve never even thought about if I’m doing a disservice to ex-servicemen who jog.

Pretty much this. :agree:

At the end of the day, I'm sure there will be people who like to wear the Hibs crest and do so in any way they can; it makes commercial sense for businesses therefore to have these sort of tie-ins with clubs.

They seem to have them for 10 different clubs; I don't know if they were selected as 10 or if all were approached and only these 10 wanted to accept/got the message - but it seems like a reasonable decision to me. Good luck to them.

[heretoday]

Just seems more militarist merchandise for conspicuous acts of remembrance. What does it say? That we remember Hibs fans only? That Hibs were uniquely involved? That Hibs fans remember? I don’t see the point of the tie up.

But then, I don’t wear the poppy and haven’t done so probably since I was at school. Every year, it seems to get increasingly mawkish, commercialised and pious. I don’t want to be part of that.

It does seem to start earlier each year. Back in the 60s there wasn't all this fuss - remembrance events on the Sunday and that was it. And that involved folk who'd actually fought in the World Wars don't forget.

[Pretty Boy]

It does seem to start earlier each year. Back in the 60s there wasn't all this fuss - remembrance events on the Sunday and that was it. And that involved folk who'd actually fought in the World Wars don't forget.

I've made this point before. The Remembrance period seems to have evolved as the number of people who actually saw the horrors of the Great War decreased and has now become a past generation. It may be the mists of time but as a young boy I was always almost awestruck when I saw an old guy standing with a solitary medal, maybe 2 or 3, selling poppies. My memory is people pinned one to their jacket for a few days, observed a silence on Armistice Day and again on Remembrance Sunday then quietly took them off for another year. I was always impressed by that; there was a quiet, understated dignity that just seemed to fit. Increasingly I find reference to words like 'celebrate' and I don't like it at all. It doesn't fit and it's wrong. The fact more attention was paid to the centenary of the start of the war than is being given to the end of it is wrong. I suppose part of it is the social media generation: 'look at me I'M REMEMBERING, not only that but I'm remembering better than you'.

WWI wasn't a group of dashing young heroes who went on a jolly to the continent to give the Kaiser a bit of a licking. It was an imperial and political war fought by huge numbers of scared young boys many of whom had little choice in the matter. It was a war that saw the most vulnerable families ruthlessly exploited at home by opportunists, it was a war of attrition that saw millions from all walks of life ruthlessly slaughtered.

I always think Harry Patch summed it up quite nicely:

'I felt then as I feel now that the politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder.'

I'll happily stick a few pound in a collection tin to help dp the job the government should be doing but I won't be playing any other part in the whole charade.

[Chic Murray]

It does seem to start earlier each year. Back in the 60s there wasn't all this fuss - remembrance events on the Sunday and that was it. And that involved folk who'd actually fought in the World Wars don't forget.

:agree:

[McD]

I've made this point before. The Remembrance period seems to have evolved as the number of people who actually saw the horrors of the Great War decreased and has now become a past generation. It may be the mists of time but as a young boy I was always almost awestruck when I saw an old guy standing with a solitary medal, maybe 2 or 3, selling poppies. My memory is people pinned one to their jacket for a few days, observed a silence on Armistice Day and again on Remembrance Sunday then quietly took them off for another year. I was always impressed by that; there was a quiet, understated dignity that just seemed to fit. Increasingly I find reference to words like 'celebrate' and I don't like it at all. It doesn't fit and it's wrong. The fact more attention was paid to the centenary of the start of the war than is being given to the end of it is wrong. I suppose part of it is the social media generation: 'look at me I'M REMEMBERING, not only that but I'm remembering better than you'.

WWI wasn't a group of dashing young heroes who went on a jolly to the continent to give the Kaiser a bit of a licking. It was an imperial and political war fought by huge numbers of scared young boys many of whom had little choice in the matter. It was a war that saw the most vulnerable families ruthlessly exploited at home by opportunists, it was a war of attrition that saw millions from all walks of life ruthlessly slaughtered.

I always think Harry Patch summed it up quite nicely:

'I felt then as I feel now that the politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder.'

I'll happily stick a few pound in a collection tin to help dp the job the government should be doing but I won't be playing any other part in the whole charade.



my childhood experiences are very similar to yours PB, which left me feeling very similar to yourself. Quiet respect and dignity was the way it was observed and commemorated.

[steakbake]

It does seem to start earlier each year. Back in the 60s there wasn't all this fuss - remembrance events on the Sunday and that was it. And that involved folk who'd actually fought in the World Wars don't forget.

Agree with you here, HT.

I don’t know when officially the first poppies are seen on TV but it’ll be soon. In my hometown, there was a scarecrow competition in June and the winner was of course a ‘lest we forget’ themed garden complete with poppies. I don’t know how I feel about that because I can’t take it seriously.

I’ve got no issue with the principle of it - I just think it’s been captured by a different element which takes it away from what it once was. It’s an interesting point about those who lived through it marked it in a different way. I’m sure there’s something to that and definitely remember growing up seeing a number of the local old folks who were decorated.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

People will jump on the back of any cause they can think of if it'll get them a few extra likes these days. Me? I'll just stick to popping a few quid in a box and wear my non-football related Poppy as I've done every year for as long as I can remember.