I Know You May Disagree But...

[Speedway]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.

[Diclonius]

I don't take any positives in defeat but that wasn't an "unlucky Hibs" defeat. That was a "99% of the time the planets wouldn't have aligned in such a way to somehow deny us that victory" defeat.

I've seen plenty defeats of the kind you mention, but that isn't one. Lennon's Hibs don't do soft defeats. Our only two losses in the last year at Easter Road were ones we should have won by miles. It happens.

It's only two years since 2016. I think we can be reasonable and give the team time to win another at the moment.

[poolman]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.


Kind of agree and disagree

Considering where we were when Stubbsy took over it's like night and day

Yea, we should have won last night but these things, unfortunately, happen

We still have the SC and let's see what happens in the league this year, could be interesting

[Speedway]

I don't take any positives in defeat but that wasn't an "unlucky Hibs" defeat. That was a "99% of the time the planets wouldn't have aligned in such a way to somehow deny us that victory" defeat.

I've seen plenty defeats of the kind you mention, but that isn't one. Lennon's Hibs don't do soft defeats. Our only two losses in the last year at Easter Road were ones we should have won by miles. It happens.

It's only two years since 2016. I think we can be reasonable and give the team time to win another at the moment.

I see what you're saying and I welcome the return of debate rather than attack when opposing views are held.

I personally don't differentiate on 'the manner of defeat'. I can see how well we played and that just makes it worse. Until we get given 3 points or cash for playing well and losing, a defeat is a defeat and is unacceptable to me in these circumstances.

Getting stuffed by a much much better side, OK. That's not what happened last night though.

[IGRIGI]

I hope it's communicated to the players how much cash we've lost out on due to their inability to hit a coo's erse with a banjo.

With the financial backing Hearts and the Sheep have every little counts and missing out on a Hampden Semi Final isn't something insignificant.

[Greenbeard]

Honours are the icing on the cake. But I enjoy cake with no icing as long as it is tasty. Lat night's cake was very tasty. Long may that continue, icing or no icing.

[Speedway]

I hope it's communicated to the players how much cash we've lost out on due to their inability to hit a coo's erse with a banjo.

With the financial backing Hearts and the Sheep have every little counts and missing out on a Hampden Semi Final isn't something insignificant.

That's certainly the way I see it.

[where'stheslope]

I don't take any positives in defeat but that wasn't an "unlucky Hibs" defeat. That was a "99% of the time the planets wouldn't have aligned in such a way to somehow deny us that victory" defeat.

I've seen plenty defeats of the kind you mention, but that isn't one. Lennon's Hibs don't do soft defeats. Our only two losses in the last year at Easter Road were ones we should have won by miles. It happens.

It's only two years since 2016. I think we can be reasonable and give the team time to win another at the moment.

What about Livvie a couple of weeks ago?????

The op's right about most things, but if you want to win you have to fight for everything, other clubs don't have our resources, but they still want to win!!!

[Smartie]

I was born in 1977.

I don't know much about what happened before then but I have it on good authority that Hibs were pretty handy, and around the time I was born we were on the decline.

It is often said that during that mid 70s period, one of the problems was that the manager broke up a good team in a gamble to make it better, possibly over-reacting to a few defeats and bad results in an attempt to lift us a level. As a club we've never really recovered to reach those heights again.

One of the most important things you have to do is choose how to react to a defeat. Nobody is happy that we lost last night, but the majority of us have seen enough rubbish to acknowledge that we played well against a good team and it was only some bad luck and poor finishing that prevented us from going through.

Sometimes you lose, play badly and you know major change is required (see the Livi match).

Sometimes you need to dust yourselves down and just do the same thing again.

I remember Mowbray being slaughtered following a 4-4 home draw with Dundee when after the match he calmly stated that "if we play like that every week, we'll win more than we'll lose. He was of course correct, and he had a good team on his hands.

I feel very much today as I did after that match, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season (if maybe slightly concerned about how wasteful we were in front of goal).

[Pretty Boy]

Luck is a supernatural concept, it doesn't exist. I get that it's a word used to describe events either going in your favour or against you but it's not down to some mysterious force, it's as a result of your own or another person/groups actions.

We lost last night because we failed to put the ball in the back of the net not because of some mystery ill fortune that befell us.

[jacomo]

I see what you're saying and I welcome the return of debate rather than attack when opposing views are held.

I personally don't differentiate on 'the manner of defeat'. I can see how well we played and that just makes it worse. Until we get given 3 points or cash for playing well and losing, a defeat is a defeat and is unacceptable to me in these circumstances.

Getting stuffed by a much much better side, OK. That's not what happened last night though.


Your problem is that last night you decided to attack anyone who wasn’t losing their mind over the result.

Every Hibee was disappointed. Most of us chose a proportionate response. You went hysterical.

Make no apologies for refusing to engage with such nonsense.

[danhibees1875]

I was born in 1977.

I don't know much about what happened before then but I have it on good authority that Hibs were pretty handy, and around the time I was born we were on the decline.

It is often said that during that mid 70s period, one of the problems was that the manager broke up a good team in a gamble to make it better, possibly over-reacting to a few defeats and bad results in an attempt to lift us a level. As a club we've never really recovered to reach those heights again.

One of the most important things you have to do is choose how to react to a defeat. Nobody is happy that we lost last night, but the majority of us have seen enough rubbish to acknowledge that we played well against a good team and it was only some bad luck and poor finishing that prevented us from going through.

Sometimes you lose, play badly and you know major change is required (see the Livi match).

Sometimes you need to dust yourselves down and just do the same thing again.

I remember Mowbray being slaughtered following a 4-4 home draw with Dundee when after the match he calmly stated that "if we play like that every week, we'll win more than we'll lose. He was of course correct, and he had a good team on his hands.

I feel very much today as I did after that match, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season (if maybe slightly concerned about how wasteful we were in front of goal).

I'd agree with all of this (apart from being born in 77 :greengrin ).

I'd also say that similar happened again in the 2007-2014 decline. We just came out of having a very strong team that was sold off, and subsequent reasonably good players were quickly churned out of the club for not being as good as Brown/Thomson/Deek/GOC and were replaced with worse and worse players over the years and our league placings declined accordingly. I try not too be too critical of players accordingly, I know Mallan/Slivka aren't going to be as solid as SJM was for us - but I choose to believe we could do a lot worse and both have the potential to push on and be as good for us.

[Speedway]

Your problem is that last night you decided to attack anyone who wasn’t losing their mind over the result.

Every Hibee was disappointed. Most of us chose a proportionate response. You went hysterical.

Make no apologies for refusing to engage with such nonsense.

Please could you evidence where I was first to attack rather than first to have an opposing view on that thread.

[BILLYHIBS]

Still hurting this morning

We have no one to blame but ourselves

Our problems last night were all in the final third of the pitch

We were brilliant up until that point

We have to take the negatives from last night and turn them into positives going forward if we want to be where we, Neil Lennon and Hibernian Football Club need to be.

Standing on the outside looking in we are looking thin up top and if Kamberi is injured for Saturday that leaves us two strikers down and presents us with a major problem

If Kamberi is fit I still feel we have to find a goalscorer from either within our club or from the free agent markets

I got tired saying it last night but that game was tailor made for Jamie MacLaren

If only......?

[MWHIBBIES]

If we're the 4th biggest club in the land then you think Aberdeen are bigger than us? So why is losing to them on penalties so unacceptable?

If we demanded success in the way you want our current manager would be gone because he hasn't won anything in 2 years.

We've been more successful than Aberdeen and as successful as Hearts over the last 30 years.

There are many positives to be taken from any defeat, victory is only good for a comfortable nights sleep. Learning and progressing comes from learning from mistakes. We will do that and come back better.

Using the term hibsing it is why you were told to **** off, rightfully so in my mind. Pathetic, nonconstructive reaction to a tough loss.

We don't run the risk of returning to an era of plucky Hibs. We're a very good team and not winning a trophy doesn't change that.

[Diclonius]

What about Livvie a couple of weeks ago?????

The op's right about most things, but if you want to win you have to fight for everything, other clubs don't have our resources, but they still want to win!!!

I can count on one hand those kind of defeats in Lennon's time here. 0-2 away at St Mirren, 1-4 at Pittodrie, and the one you've mentioned. That's it.

It happens occasionally. Give me any other Hibs manager in the last 20 years and you'd say the majority of our defeats were soft.

If the last two years are anything to go by, it won't be until at least 2019 that we have another "soft" defeat.

[One Day Soon]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.


You're doing yourself no favors continuing to use this term, even in inverted commas. It was Hearts gash literally made-up from nothing. If you want to have a serious discussion about our performance last night, or in any other games this season, it can be done without falling for their made-up propaganda.

[Speedway]

If we're the 4th biggest club in the land then you think Aberdeen are bigger than us? So why is losing to them on penalties so unacceptable?

If we demanded success in the way you want our current manager would be gone because he hasn't won anything in 2 years.

We've been more successful than Aberdeen and as successful as Hearts over the last 30 years.

There are many positives to be taken from any defeat, victory is only good for a comfortable nights sleep. Learning and progressing comes from learning from mistakes. We will do that and come back better.

Using the term hibsing it is why you were told to **** off, rightfully so in my mind. Pathetic, nonconstructive reaction to a tough loss.

We don't run the risk of returning to an era of plucky Hibs. We're a very good team and not winning a trophy doesn't change that.

So by that logic, if you use a term that I don't like, I'm OK to tell you to **** off, yes?

Did you take the time to consider the context that it was used, namely against avoiding the opportunity to rivals to bring about it's return, given that it was based on us bottling big games more than the Yams or Sheep did?


You're doing yourself no favors continuing to use this term, even in inverted commas. It was Hearts gash literally made-up from nothing. If you want to have a serious discussion about our performance last night, or in any other games this season, it can be done without falling for their made-up propaganda.

No it was made up because we kept losing big games.

[MWHIBBIES]

So by that logic, if you use a term that I don't like, I'm OK to tell you to **** off, yes?

Did you take the time to consider the context that it was used, namely against avoiding the opportunity to rivals to bring about it's return, given that it was based on us bottling big games more than the Yams or Sheep did?



No it was made up because we kept losing big games.

Yes, go for it, I don't mind. I don't take things strangers say online personally. We don't bottle big games more than them. We win big games more than them actually. Hence why we progress to bigger games, like finals, more than them. Would you prefer to lose semi finals and quarter finals more often to avoid bigger games like Aberdeen and Hearts do?

[One Day Soon]

So by that logic, if you use a term that I don't like, I'm OK to tell you to **** off, yes?

Did you take the time to consider the context that it was used, namely against avoiding the opportunity to rivals to bring about it's return, given that it was based on us bottling big games more than the Yams or Sheep did?



No it was made up because we kept losing big games.

No, it was made up because it was a useful made-up stick to beat us with by our city rivals despite the fact that they were guilty of Jambottling a league and cup double in 1986 - a vastly bigger bit of choking than we have seen from any other Scottish club in the last 50 odd years.

But hey, you like to use the phrase because it gets you attention, allows you to troll and helps you to vent inaccurately and illogically on Neil Lennon's Hibs.

[jacomo]

Please could you evidence where I was first to attack rather than first to have an opposing view on that thread.


I’m not going to bother revisiting the match day thread thanks.

The hour or so following the game is a horror show, largely down to you. Several different posters called you out on it but you carried on hurling the insults.

You can either reflect on that or not, it’s up to you.

[Scotty Leither]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, which is a standard requirement for a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...

[One Day Soon]

I’m not going to bother revisiting the match day thread thanks.

The hour or so following the game is a horror show, largely down to you. Several different posters called you out on it but you carried on hurling the insults..

You can either reflect on that or not, it’s up to you.

You might describe that as having Speedwayed-it in fact.

[MWHIBBIES]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, in common with a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...Lewis Allan is well equipped for a physical battle, he is a big strong guy.

Name a club that tells fans why they didn't sign the players the fans wanted?

Our ''timidity'' was addressed as well, we signed many strikers in that time, including 2 top class ones in MacLaren and Flo. Are the board to blame for their injuries?

[One Day Soon]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, in common with a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...


There's no "but", the first part of your sentence has nothing to do with the second part - or anything else in fact.

[HFC 0-7]

I don't take any positives in defeat but that wasn't an "unlucky Hibs" defeat. That was a "99% of the time the planets wouldn't have aligned in such a way to somehow deny us that victory" defeat.

I've seen plenty defeats of the kind you mention, but that isn't one. Lennon's Hibs don't do soft defeats. Our only two losses in the last year at Easter Road were ones we should have won by miles. It happens.

It's only two years since 2016. I think we can be reasonable and give the team time to win another at the moment.

We just were not good enough to win last night as part of being able to win is converting chances. Their keeper wasn’t pulling off wonder saved we just didn’t play well enough in our shooting and decision makings infrin of goal. You can only really say we were unlucky when we have dropped points due to ref decisions chopping off goals etc. If we want to win things we need to be clinical. We were not last night and that wasn’t down to us being unlucky.

[BILLYHIBS]

The beauty of supporting HIBS is the fact you know that on our day we can beat the Celtics The Rangers the Aberdeens and the Hearts of the Scottish game.

That has always been the case for me over the last fifty years and it has always been the HIBS way playing fast flowing attacking football

The OP states that we are the fourth biggest team I may be looking at the world through green tinted glasses but in my eyes hibs have always been number one biggest and the best

Chic Charnley said in a recent interview he had no idea how big HIBS were until he started playing for us.

Last nights programme said that recent crowds have been the highest since the 1950s

We still have loads of untapped potential we are a sleeping giant though I concede support wise we will never be as big as the bigot brothers.

[HibeeDaz6270]

I have took positives from last night mainly because i was still unsure about the squad this season after losing McGinn & McGeouch

I thought we seemed lightweight in midfield in previous games & had not done enough to strengthen that area of the park at the end of the transfer window.

However, last night i felt the midfield were very good & despite defeat i feel a lot more optimistic about the rest of the season.

So whilst extremely disappointing result, one that should not happen with such dominance in the game. I came away feeling a lot better about the rest of the season than i did before the game.

We will not have many days where we have such a low or no conversion ratio on chances created.

[hibsbollah]

I think you're confusing à) 'taking positives from a defeat', which is without argument the most appropriate reaction for anyone involved in sport, whether players fans or coaching staff, with b) tolerating defeat, which is not appropriate.

I'd also add that players and coaches should always turn up to a game expecting to win. This is good psychologically. Players and coaches have direct control over the outcome and therefore need to have a positive attitude. Fans, on the other hand, shouldn't turn up to every game expecting to win, because firstly you have no direct control of the outcome, and secondly because you start acting like a tit.

[Future17]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.

What is it you're suggesting we, as a support, do with regards to last night's defeat?

[matty_f]

Football teams will lose matches, there isn't (to the best of my knowledge) a professional club in the world that has won every trophy and every match that they've competed in.

We've lost 4 this calendar year, I think, and last night's game was lost on penalties to a team that has finished above us every season for however many years now.

You can say that's unacceptable, and if you do then I'd love to know what you're doing about it? If you find it unacceptable then what action are you taking to put it right, or are you just stamping your feet and 'demanding' better?

Football is a sport, there are two teams competing, both want to win, but that's impossible, so something has to give.

If you don't win, you look at the context of the defeat - there was one significant failing last night, and that was the finishing - it's not typical of us (you don't have to go back far to see us scoring 3 in a European tie against a handy outfit, double figures over two legs against a less-handy outfit) 5 against Rangers (in my lifetime that's happened just that once), 5 against Killie (who have accumulated as many points as us and more than any other Premiership team this calendar year, though would be behind us on -ironically- goal difference).

It's not a recurring theme for us just now. Call it a hard luck story and say that's not good enough if you want, but the team did everything bar that one failing to win the game last night.

How can you find that unacceptable? So what next, drop all the players? Drop the forwards? Sack the manager? The board? Cut up your season ticket or boycott the games?

I want to see us play like we played last night. I want to see us score goals and I know we will because we do it frequently and regularly. I think last night was only the second time since we lost to Rangers (ironically, that was another defeat where finishing cost us because we battered them) that we have scored fewer than 2 goals in a domestic game at Easter Road.

It's disappointing not to be in a semi-final, the money would definitely have helped us. I think I'm right in saying, though, that we've had the most Hampden trips in the last decade than any other side (maybe any other non-OF side). That's not serial failure or constant underachieving, it's probably about right for a club our size in this league.

Falling out with people over whether or not they accept a defeat is ridiculous, IMHO - we're not bairns, FFS.

[Scotty Leither]

There's no "but", the first part of your sentence has nothing to do with the second part - or anything else in fact.

Wow - condescension is alive and well on Hibs.net...

[One Day Soon]

Wow - condescension is alive and well on Hibs.net...

Is that how you want to interpret it? I was simply pointing out that the first part didn't relate to the second.

It wasn't a comment on your sentence construction or grammar, it was suggesting that since that term is made-up pi5h it has no relationship to alleged 'timidity' in the final third of the park.

Timidity which doesn't actually exist in my view - if you want to pick holes in our recent (last season or so) performances then look at leaking daft goals rather than an inability to score them.

[Bobo]

Last night our performance was very good despite the end product being unacceptably poor, it happens, we just need to persevere and we'll win more than we lose.

We lost a lot of important players in the close season and the new guys are still fitting in so it's still a work in progress for me. IMO we could still do with another couple of additions to the squad but if this is as bad as they'll play I can handle that and hopefully we see further improvement to the squad, come January, as we did last season.

Our main source of income, like every other club, will always be through gate receipts. We need to maintain a level of performance to retain and increase the fan base who attend Easter Road each game and if we can achieve that then on field success and trophies won't be too far away.

[matty_f]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, which is a standard requirement for a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...

I have to disagree with this line,not the Board mention, which is irrelevant, but the idea that there is a timidity in the final third of the park and has been for over a year.

I mentioned it on another post - in this calendar year we've put five past Killie and Rangers, two past Celtc in four games (IIRC), we'd scored 6 in 2 games in the matches leading up to last night's game. We had 20-odd shots last night. We've accumulated the most points this calendar year and if the league was run over that period we'd be ahead of Killie on goal difference.

All of the evidence (or facts) - other than drawing a blank last night - contradicts your point there.

[HFC 0-7]

Football teams will lose matches, there isn't (to the best of my knowledge) a professional club in the world that has won every trophy and every match that they've competed in.

We've lost 4 this calendar year, I think, and last night's game was lost on penalties to a team that has finished above us every season for however many years now.

You can say that's unacceptable, and if you do then I'd love to know what you're doing about it? If you find it unacceptable then what action are you taking to put it right, or are you just stamping your feet and 'demanding' better?

Football is a sport, there are two teams competing, both want to win, but that's impossible, so something has to give.

If you don't win, you look at the context of the defeat - there was one significant failing last night, and that was the finishing - it's not typical of us (you don't have to go back far to see us scoring 3 in a European tie against a handy outfit, double figures over two legs against a less-handy outfit) 5 against Rangers (in my lifetime that's happened just that once), 5 against Killie (who have accumulated as many points as us and more than any other Premiership team this calendar year, though would be behind us on -ironically- goal difference).

It's not a recurring theme for us just now. Call it a hard luck story and say that's not good enough if you want, but the team did everything bar that one failing to win the game last night.

How can you find that unacceptable? So what next, drop all the players? Drop the forwards? Sack the manager? The board? Cut up your season ticket or boycott the games?

I want to see us play like we played last night. I want to see us score goals and I know we will because we do it frequently and regularly. I think last night was only the second time since we lost to Rangers (ironically, that was another defeat where finishing cost us because we battered them) that we have scored fewer than 2 goals in a domestic game at Easter Road.

It's disappointing not to be in a semi-final, the money would definitely have helped us. I think I'm right in saying, though, that we've had the most Hampden trips in the last decade than any other side (maybe any other non-OF side). That's not serial failure or constant underachieving, it's probably about right for a club our size in this league.

Falling out with people over whether or not they accept a defeat is ridiculous, IMHO - we're not bairns, FFS.

Fans demands can influence the board IMO. If you look at the teams at the top they all have the toys out the pram when they get beat. Hearts fans boo'd at the end of their game against Livingston and they are about 5 points clear at the top! Hibs fans havent demanded enough in the past and like it or not Boards will react to fan pressure. We dominated the game last night but the saving grace seems to be that we were unlucky. If we dominated a game against east fife and it was just our finishing or decisions in front of goal thats stopped us winning would you be sharing the same view?? Re the part in bold - not really true is it! They failed to make the correct decisions in front of goal and they never converted one of their numerous chances in front of goal. Thats what stopped us from winning so doing everything bar winning is a bit far fetched.

This was a cup game but look at the livingston game, we dropped points in a game that we should have won. People will say this will happen, its early in the season but when it comes to the end of the season the difference between europe and not can be a couple of points.

You talk about this being about the second time that we have scored less than 2 goals, is that not even more of a reason to be upset and demand more that we didnt do what we normally do?!?

[matty_f]

Fans demands can influence the board IMO. If you look at the teams at the top they all have the toys out the pram when they get beat. Hearts fans boo'd at the end of their game against Livingston and they are about 5 points clear at the top! Hibs fans havent demanded enough in the past and like it or not Boards will react to fan pressure. We dominated the game last night but the saving grace seems to be that we were unlucky. If we dominated a game against east fife and it was just our finishing or decisions in front of goal thats stopped us winning would you be sharing the same view?? Re the part in bold - not really true is it! They failed to make the correct decisions in front of goal and they never converted one of their numerous chances in front of goal. Thats what stopped us from winning so doing everything bar winning is a bit far fetched.

This was a cup game but look at the livingston game, we dropped points in a game that we should have won. People will say this will happen, its early in the season but when it comes to the end of the season the difference between europe and not can be a couple of points.

You talk about this being about the second time that we have scored less than 2 goals, is that not even more of a reason to be upset and demand more that we didnt do what we normally do?!?

Did Hearts fans booing their team off the pitch get them more points? Nope.

Would booing last night have put us through or made us better in the next match? Nope.

Your last line is up there with the most baffling logic I can remember seeing on hibs.net, and that's saying something.

How is it more reason - do you think the players were meaning to miss last night? Do you think they don't already know that their finishing cost us the game, or that they aren't gutted enough to be going out after playing so well?

What do you think the Board are going to do about it? Get everyone on a written warning that they can't miss chances ever again? Rip everything up and start again, get a new squad in, throw money at it?

We had good players on the pitch last night, players who are more than capable of scoring goals at this level more often than not. They're also (like the rest of us), human and therefore capable of having nights were their shots don't all go in.

Re the bit in bold - we did everything right bar sticking the ball in the net, IMHO - I would say that was what stopped us winning. I think I'm saying the same as you?

[Scotty Leither]

Is that how you want to interpret it? I was simply pointing out that the first part didn't relate to the second.

It wasn't a comment on your sentence construction or grammar, it was suggesting that since that term is made-up pi5h it has no relationship to alleged 'timidity' in the final third of the park.

Timidity which doesn't actually exist in my view - if you want to pick holes in our recent (last season or so) performances then look at leaking daft goals rather than an inability to score them.

If the "term" you're referring to is "Hibsing it" I wasn't making a link between "that term" and us being light up front and short on numbers, so I hope that clears it up.

I do have a degree in English as it stands though, but am always open to critique on my syntax, so thank you for that.

[Ozyhibby]

I made much of our inability to score goals throughout Stubbs tenure and the early part of Lennon’s, however this calendar year has seen Lennon fix this big time and last night was a very rare blip where we didn’t find the back of the net.
These things happen.
The fact is we are scoring regularly now and the team is improving. There is room for more improvement though but every team in the world thinks that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

What is it you're suggesting we, as a support, do with regards to last night's defeat?

I'd like to know this too. I've already sharpened my pitchfork, but I don't know whose house (of those who missed easy chances last night) we should be storming. Prefer it not to be Porteous's, in case he takes it badly.

[WhileTheChief..]

Crap opening post that comes across as self entitled nonsense.

[matty_f]

Crap opening post that comes across as self entitled nonsense.

Come on, we're all friends here - tell us what you really think!:greengrin

[matty_f]

I'd like to know this too. I've already sharpened my pitchfork, but I don't know whose house (of those who missed easy chances last night) we should be storming. Prefer it not to be Porteous's, in case he takes it badly.

Same here, what do we expect to happen when an unacceptable defeat happens - should Lennon walk, or players be dropped, should they be made to train on their own for a bit or be given detention. Should they be made to come round the stands and apologise to us - the paying public - for it?

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Same here, what do we expect to happen when an unacceptable defeat happens - should Lennon walk, or players be dropped, should they be made to train on their own for a bit or be given detention. Should they be made to come round the stands and apologise to us - the paying public - for it?

:greengrin

I'd go for a more traditional hibs.net forfeit - make them sit in a bath of beans for a bit. :agree:

[Speedway]

No, it was made up because it was a useful made-up stick to beat us with by our city rivals despite the fact that they were guilty of Jambottling a league and cup double in 1986 - a vastly bigger bit of choking than we have seen from any other Scottish club in the last 50 odd years.

But hey, you like to use the phrase because it gets you attention, allows you to troll and helps you to vent inaccurately and illogically on Neil Lennon's Hibs.

No it was made up because we bottled regularly and primarily against them, while waxing lyrical about our silky brand of football. They countered it with their ugly but winning brand of football. The 86 bottling was huge, so was the 2012 cup final.


I’m not going to bother revisiting the match day thread thanks.

The hour or so following the game is a horror show, largely down to you. Several different posters called you out on it but you carried on hurling the insults.

You can either reflect on that or not, it’s up to you.

Of course you're not going to bother revisiting the thread, because you'd have your bluff called if you did.


You might describe that as having Speedwayed-it in fact.

That's genius.


I think you're confusing à) 'taking positives from a defeat', which is without argument the most appropriate reaction for anyone involved in sport, whether players fans or coaching staff, with b) tolerating defeat, which is not appropriate.

I'd also add that players and coaches should always turn up to a game expecting to win. This is good psychologically. Players and coaches have direct control over the outcome and therefore need to have a positive attitude. Fans, on the other hand, shouldn't turn up to every game expecting to win, because firstly you have no direct control of the outcome, and secondly because you start acting like a tit.

What if taking positives from a defeat tolerates and empowers future defeats with the justification that it doesn't matter, so long as the team played well?


What is it you're suggesting we, as a support, do with regards to last night's defeat?

Start adding up how much lost income poor finishing costs us and save ourselves 4000 pages of whinging about signings or lack of quality thereof on the next transfer thread.




Falling out with people over whether or not they accept a defeat is ridiculous, IMHO - we're not bairns, FFS.

I see no evidence to support that view.


Crap opening post that comes across as self entitled nonsense.

Whereas your post paints you as balanced, insightful and constructive.

[The_Horde]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.

Gash. I'll afford the team the benefit of the doubt last night.

A bit more clinical and we'd be in the semis and we're still very much a work in progress and still missing some key players.

[bigwheel]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, which is a standard requirement for a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...


Doesn't stand up to scrutiny this point - we scored 62 league goals last season. Third most in the league. Scoring goals has not been an issue this season either. I'm gutted by the result last night too. But this "enough of hard luck stories" smacks of "scoreboard supporting". Judging Hibs only by the result. Not considering the performance levels. Be disappointed - fair enough - but I saw enough last night, and on Saturday, to feel we will do alright this season, probably better than expected after losing most of our top players over the summer.

[oldbutdim]

Well, I demanded that we beat Aberdeen last night.

:confused:

[Speedway]

Well, I demanded that we beat Aberdeen last night.

:confused:

How did it go?

[fulshie]

Personally speaking, I feel we played really well last night and definitely deserved to win but, that's fitba.

What people should remember is, we lost ,pretty much, a full midfield in the close season with McGinn, McGeoch and Allen all leaving.

It's incredibly hard to replace that talent in one transfer window but, I think NL has done well with the midfield recruitment and giving
that performance last night I'm upbeat about the season going forward even though we lost "on pens".

[cleanyman]

For the 5th biggest team in the country we do okay.

However, I'd like to see us win more trophies but then wouldn't we all

[lyonhibs]

Last night's result was not good and our lack of the killer touch was frustrating but no longer typical of Lennon's Hibs team.

I think as a result of having a highly competent manager, a great squad (a bit more depth of front needed admittedly), a general feel-good buzz around those running the club (I expect to be picked up on that point by a "sack the Board, Petrie oot" aficionado but that's a risk I'm willing to take) and - most importantly, one of the best runs of form since the turn of the year in bloody ages, people aren't flying off the handle at this defeat as much as would have been the case in years gone by (and obviously not as much as the OP feels we should be)

It's a royal pain in the arse that we're out of 1 of the cup competitions but I'm a way off thinking were about to embark on another "era of failure" - although 3 trophies in the last 27 years is actually historically very good for Hibs - not that I consider that ratio good enough by half, but them's the facts - or are in the process of losing the benefits (primarily increased attendances) that 2016 gave us.

Just look at ST sales and the pedigree of our signings this season.

We dust ourselves off and get back to the bread and butter of the league - number 1 priority for me right now.

[One Day Soon]

If the "term" you're referring to is "Hibsing it" I wasn't making a link between "that term" and us being light up front and short on numbers, so I hope that clears it up.

I do have a degree in English as it stands though, but am always open to critique on my syntax, so thank you for that.

If your concern is 'timidity' in front of goal over the last year you may need to go back and add a qualification in arithmetic to get up to speed. We're the second highest scorers in the league so far this season and we were fourth highest in goals scored last season.

[Speedway]

For the 5th biggest team in the country we do okay.

However, I'd like to see us win more trophies but then wouldn't we all

Aberdeen and Hearts both bigger would you say?

Aberdeen yes, but Hearts?

[cleanyman]

Aberdeen and Hearts both bigger would you say?

Aberdeen yes, but Hearts?

The stats don't lie Speedway

My papa is the same age is you and he's seen all the great Hibs teams despite being a Ger. He says himself that Hibs never fully grasped their chances after the 50s where they could have been the biggest team in Scotland. Maybe he's right ?

Hearts have nailed us to the floor too many times for me to say we are a bigger club.

[One Day Soon]

No it was made up because we bottled regularly and primarily against them, while waxing lyrical about our silky brand of football. They countered it with their ugly but winning brand of football. The 86 bottling was huge, so was the 2012 cup final.



Of course you're not going to bother revisiting the thread, because you'd have your bluff called if you did.



That's genius.



What if taking positives from a defeat tolerates and empowers future defeats with the justification that it doesn't matter, so long as the team played well?



Start adding up how much lost income poor finishing costs us and save ourselves 4000 pages of whinging about signings or lack of quality thereof on the next transfer thread.



I see no evidence to support that view.


Whereas your post paints you as balanced, insightful and constructive.


You don't half talk some drivel. We bottled the 2012 Cup Final aye? You do remember the enormous imbalance in spending on players that subsequently caused them to go bust, the performance of the referee on the day and the injuries we had to our squad for the final? If you can call that bottling it you really need help.

'Speedwayed-it' isn't genius, but it is very, very accurate.

[cleanyman]

You don't half talk some drivel. We bottled the 2012 Cup Final aye? You do remember the enormous imbalance in spending on players that subsequently caused them to go bust, the performance of the the referee on the day and the injuries we had to our squad for the final? If you can call that bottling it you really need help.

'Speedwayed-it' isn't genius, but it is very, very accurate.

Hibs shat it that day

[Speedway]

Hibs shat it that day

Sadly, yes we did.

One Day Soon. Nice attempt at denial. 'Aww but Maaaaawww the big boys spent more than us to win the shiny cup but but but injuries but but but the ref but but but'

FFS man grow a pair!

They won. We didn't. That's the problem. Until that reverses and becomes 'Natural Order' that we win, not the hammer throwers we face, I'll keep raging at defeats.

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

[hibsbollah]

What if taking positives from a defeat tolerates and empowers future defeats with the justification that it doesn't matter, so long as the team played well?


If that toleration of failure is endemic within the club, then it's a problem. If it's only apparent among the fan base, it doesn't really matter one bit.

[HFC 0-7]

Did Hearts fans booing their team off the pitch get them more points? Nope.

Would booing last night have put us through or made us better in the next match? Nope.

Your last line is up there with the most baffling logic I can remember seeing on hibs.net, and that's saying something.

How is it more reason - do you think the players were meaning to miss last night? Do you think they don't already know that their finishing cost us the game, or that they aren't gutted enough to be going out after playing so well?

What do you think the Board are going to do about it? Get everyone on a written warning that they can't miss chances ever again? Rip everything up and start again, get a new squad in, throw money at it?

We had good players on the pitch last night, players who are more than capable of scoring goals at this level more often than not. They're also (like the rest of us), human and therefore capable of having nights were their shots don't all go in.

Re the bit in bold - we did everything right bar sticking the ball in the net, IMHO - I would say that was what stopped us winning. I think I'm saying the same as you?

I think you are taking this too far here. I don’t see anyone losing their hea d over this, people pointing out that they have a right to be the nhappy. I admire your attitude sometimes as you always strive to see the positives but you almost beat the people down that want to see a bit more and a change of mindset from fans that when we get beat because we can let do the ones thing that matters in football, scoring!

I don’t expect and I don’t think anything be else does, the board to do anything off the back of one result, I certainly haven’t called for it. All I think is that when people say that last night wasn’t good enough and that these types of performances when we dominate and don’t win need to be rectified as it’s costing us money and the chance of silverware or league positions.

Re the most baffling point for you. You seem to think that not doing what we normally do is ok as a one off. I see it as a failing if we don’t do what we normally do???? Is that really baffling?

Matty, you should have been a politician, yes we are agreeing that we did everything apart from putting the ball in the net but given that is one of the main objectives, if not the only one, I would say it’s a pretty big issue, yet your slant on it makes out that it’s not that big of a deal.

I go back to the point, I don’t think anyone is calling for the board to do anything but if as fans we push for more on the pitch then the board, the manager and players will know what is expected of them when they come here.

I have spoken to one ex hibs player that talked about how when he was coming to the club people spoke to him about how hibs are a good club but have a habit of under achieving, not the sort of things that should be associated with our club when new players come on board. Granted his time at the club was a while back but I could easily see people seeing the same thing now.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Last night was poor. Yes we played well without scoring but we went out the cup ultimately. IMO Hibs should not be going out the cup at home to Aberdeen.

[One Day Soon]

Hibs shat it that day

:faf: Of course they did and Santa's real too.

[PatHead]

Sadly, yes we did.

One Day Soon. Nice attempt at denial. 'Aww but Maaaaawww the big boys spent more than us to win the shiny cup'

They won. We didn't. That's the problem. Until that reverses and becomes 'Natural Order' that we win, not the hammer throwers we face, I'll keep raging at defeats.

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

I am not a good loser and am gutted we are out the cup. However there were positives and we have to build on them.

[Gordy M]

Sadly, yes we did.

One Day Soon. Nice attempt at denial. 'Aww but Maaaaawww the big boys spent more than us to win the shiny cup but but but injuries but but but the ref but but but'

FFS man grow a pair!

They won. We didn't. That's the problem. Until that reverses and becomes 'Natural Order' that we win, not the hammer throwers we face, I'll keep raging at defeats.

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

Hearts lost the cup and league in 86, Rangers lost the uefa cup final as did celtic a couple if years earlier. Aberdeen fail to beat the old firm almost every time they play them.....every team loses football matches......are you saying that somehow Hibs should be any different??

[SirDavidsNapper]

Aberdeen and Hearts both bigger would you say?

Aberdeen yes, but Hearts?

Aberdeen? Small support, a decade of success 30 years ago and 1 trophy in last 20 odd years. Hearts have more trophies to their name and imo a slightly larger fan base but we now have more season ticket holders than them. People will judge it differently i guess. Theres not much between Hibs and Hearts but Aberdeen are behind both.

[Scotty Leither]

If your concern is 'timidity' in front of goal over the last year you may need to go back and add a qualification in arithmetic to get up to speed. We're the second highest scorers in the league so far this season and we were fourth highest in goals scored last season.

The "timidity" i'm referring to is our continued lack of a physical striker which would make the difference in us being a top-six team to a top-one or top-two team, all in my humblest of opinion of course.

Once again, sorry if I didn't make that explicitly clear; I should add maybe enrolling on a psychology course onto my must-do list so that I can get a handle on your interpretation of my posts.

The arithmetic i'm not too shabby at.

[Speedway]

If that toleration of failure is endemic within the club, then it's a problem. If it's only apparent among the fan base, it doesn't really matter one bit.

Very fair point. I still think fan expectation can up the game of the board though.


Hearts lost the cup and league in 86, Rangers lost the uefa cup final as did celtic a couple if years earlier. Aberdeen fail to beat the old firm almost every time they play them.....every team loses football matches......are you saying that somehow Hibs should be any different??

LyonHibs made the point earlier that we're not flying off the handle about last night in the way we might have done in years gone by due to the positive nature of the performance and the recent upturn in our fortunes.

I think that's very well observed and I think the danger is that it can breed complacency. 'Aww nevermind, we played well' etc

When we won the cup, LD said that this couldn't be it, that there had to be more. I agree with that and I think we need more soon in order to progress as a club rather than returning to being also-rans.

[matty_f]

The "timidity" i'm referring to is our continued lack of a physical striker which would make the difference in us being a top-six team to a top-one or top-two team, all in my humblest of opinion of course.

Once again, sorry if I didn't make that explicitly clear; I should add maybe enrolling on a psychology course onto my must-do list so that I can get a handle on your interpretation of my posts.

The arithmetic i'm not too shabby at.

Wow - condescension is alive and well on Hibs.net...

[oldbutdim]

How did it go?

Not well.

I think just demanding better results isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[Speedway]

Aberdeen? Small support, a decade of success 30 years ago and 1 trophy in last 20 odd years. Hearts have more trophies to their name and imo a slightly larger fan base but we now have more season ticket holders than them. People will judge it differently i guess. Theres not much between Hibs and Hearts but Aberdeen are behind both.

Income is the other major consideration. Aberdeen had £15.28m at last accounts versus our £7.7m and Hearts £11.3m

That's quite a difference.

[Keith_M]

Luck is a supernatural concept, it doesn't exist. I get that it's a word used to describe events either going in your favour or against you but it's not down to some mysterious force, it's as a result of your own or another person/groups actions.

We lost last night because we failed to put the ball in the back of the net not because of some mystery ill fortune that befell us.


:agree:


The level of domination we had, and some of our passages of play, was fantastic to watch, but it means Sod All if you don't put the ball in the net. I'm sure NL will be stressing exactly the same point to the players today.


OK, we had McLaren missing, but you can't rely on only one person to put the ball in the net.

[One Day Soon]

Sadly, yes we did.

One Day Soon. Nice attempt at denial. 'Aww but Maaaaawww the big boys spent more than us to win the shiny cup but but but injuries but but but the ref but but but'

FFS man grow a pair!

They won. We didn't. That's the problem. Until that reverses and becomes 'Natural Order' that we win, not the hammer throwers we face, I'll keep raging at defeats.

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.


If you are so divorced from reality that you are unable to either remember or acknowledge the difference between the two sides going into that game and the additional difference made on the park on the day by both our injuries and the referee then you are one very blinkered individual. No amount of hysterical shrieking about 'it's not good enough' or entitled 'I demand better' waffling allows a gap like that to be wished away. Go ask Celtc about the Rangers 9 in a row advantage in the succulent lamb/EBT payment years to see what kind of edge can be bought by cheating. You pish your pants, the bed, the bedroom, the whole upstairs of the house and .net about one defeat last night and then you think other people should grow a pair? :faf:

Show me an irrational raver and I'll show you a raver. Raging at defeats? Getting a rager from defeats is more like it.

[Speedway]

Not well.

I think just demanding better results isn't all it's cracked up to be.

You should definitely try it more.

[SChibs]

Shaw and kamberi are goalscorers who gave nothing but 100% last night. They know their finishing wasn't the best last night but they didn't choose to miss the chances. They know they should have done better so instead of going on about it why not focus on the stuff we did well?

To say our strike force hasn't been addressed in over a year is drivel. Murray and stokes were somewhat misfiring so we binned them and brought in 2 quality forwards. The fans were desperate to re-sign said forwards which the club has done. How is this not addressing the issue?

[One Day Soon]

The "timidity" i'm referring to is our continued lack of a physical striker which would make the difference in us being a top-six team to a top-one or top-two team, all in my humblest of opinion of course.

Once again, sorry if I didn't make that explicitly clear; I should add maybe enrolling on a psychology course onto my must-do list so that I can get a handle on your interpretation of my posts.

The arithmetic i'm not too shabby at.

You're certainly exceptionally good at moving goalposts. Is there a degree in that?

[matty_f]

:agree:


The level of domination we had, and some of our passages of play, was fantastic to watch, but it means Sod All if you don't put the ball in the net. I'm sure NL will be stressing exactly the same point to the players today.


OK, we had McLaren missing, but you can't rely on only one person to put the ball in the net.

It's not even as if MacLaren has been banging them in for us all season, so I don't think we were relying on him for the goals. Boyle, Shaw, and Kamberi are all capable of scoring at this level, they all had a bad night in front of goal - it's unusual where all of them would misfire on the same night, but there we go.

Agree with your post, btw.

[Keith_M]

It's not even as if MacLaren has been banging them in for us all season, so I don't think we were relying on him for the goals. Boyle, Shaw, and Kamberi are all capable of scoring at this level, they all had a bad night in front of goal - it's unusual where all of them would misfire on the same night, but there we go.

Agree with your post, btw.


:aok:

[hibbydog]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.

Ach, I think your attitude is understandable and a necessary tough line for the players and management to take if we are ever going to finally punch our weight as a club.

But as a supporter, I'm not so bothered. I cant control or even influence how the team is going to do, so what's the point in getting wound up?

Yes, I hate getting beat by Hearts and the old firm. And cup finals have been sore. But aside from that, there's little point in supporters dwelling on it. If we get beat, I'll go off and do something else.

Perhaps its old age, or more likely the fact that we've smashed the Scottish Cup hoodoo. I dont think we'll ever live a better sporting moment in our lives than that. So I'm just going with the flow.

[lyonhibs]

Very fair point. I still think fan expectation can up the game of the board though.



LyonHibs made the point earlier that we're not flying off the handle about last night in the way we might have done in years gone by due to the positive nature of the performance and the recent upturn in our fortunes.

I think that's very well observed and I think the danger is that it can breed complacency. 'Aww nevermind, we played well' etc

When we won the cup, LD said that this couldn't be it, that there had to be more. I agree with that and I think we need more soon in order to progress as a club rather than returning to being also-rans.

I think the bone(s) of contention I'd have are a) you're getting - IMO - waaay ahead of yourself on the basis of last night to think that the team are in some way in danger of losing momentum or slipping back into the easy world of mid table mediocrity.
Also, as has been mentioned and tbf acknowledged, what impression you (or anyone) gets of the mentality of the support from .net matters not a jot as it's the mentality of the team that matters.

With Lennon in charge, and the way that LD has set the "upstairs" up, there's no way that last night is being waved away as alright because we played some decent stuff.

[hibsbollah]

Ach, I think your attitude is understandable and a necessary tough line for the players and management to take if we are ever going to finally punch our weight as a club.

But as a supporter, I'm not so bothered. I cant control or even influence how the team is going to do, so what's the point in getting wound up?

Yes, I hate getting beat by Hearts and the old firm. And cup finals have been sore. But aside from that, there's little point in supporters dwelling on it. If we get beat, I'll go off and do something else.

Perhaps its old age, or more likely the fact that we've smashed the Scottish Cup hoodoo. I dont think we'll ever live a better sporting moment in our lives than that. So I'm just going with the flow.

Good Post :agree: And I'm not sure there's a need for the unnecessarily sarcastic and aggressive tone of posts on this thread. While I don't really agree completely, I can see Speedways point; I read the OP as a frustrated call against complacency, which is fair enough.

[Scotty Leither]

Wow - condescension is alive and well on Hibs.net...

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thanks...and I'm only replying to that poster as he/she is quick to jump on anything perceived as being critical of our Board.

It normally doesn't bother me if anyone has a go at me or my opinion, as it is a forum for different and diverging views, but I'll make the odd exception now and again and reply directly.

Trust the moderators are alright with that, Matty?

[One Day Soon]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thanks...and I'm only replying to that poster as he/she is quick to jump on anything perceived as being critical of our Board.

It normally doesn't bother me if anyone has a go at me or my opinion, as it is a forum for different and diverging views, but I'll make the odd exception now and again and reply directly.

Trust the moderators are alright with that, Matty?


It certainly doesn't bother This Particular Poster, I only get twitchy when people start throwing the term 'Quisling' around. :wink:

If we were all in agreement it would be boring AF and there probably wouldn't be a forum.

[matty_f]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thanks...and I'm only replying to that poster as he/she is quick to jump on anything perceived as being critical of our Board.

It normally doesn't bother me if anyone has a go at me or my opinion, as it is a forum for different and diverging views, but I'll make the odd exception now and again and reply directly.

Trust the moderators are alright with that, Matty?

We've not said otherwise, chief - your posts are still there as you posted them. We've no issue with you sharing your opinion, it would be a duller forum if everyone agreed.

You've as much right to criticise the board as other posters have of defending them - hibs.net as a site has no opinion on it either way.

[Liam89]

Not really sure what OP's point is. Okay, we lost and shouldn't have however played very well but finished poorly. Am I supposed to be angry at the club? Lennon? Chastise our strikers and midfielders? People can be disappointed in going out but still feel we were unlucky. Not sure what your scrutiny will do to help the club, players and management team. Fair enough if we were outplayed or outfought but we weren't.

[MWHIBBIES]

How was 2012 a bottle job? We finished ****ing 11th in the league, they had a team that cost so much they went into admin. Us winning would've been a mircle. Plain stupid to call it a bottle job.

[hibbysam]

Will the laddie Lewis Allan be brought back in for Saturday then if Kamberi is out? He's not equipped for a physical battle either, which is a standard requirement for a vast majority of games in this league.

He was brought in for one game because we never brought in another player in the window - we'll not be told why that was either, because hey, we won the Cup 2 years ago, so what right do we have to expect sustained success?

I would never quote the "Hibsing it" line, and I was glad that was very firmly rammed down the throats of BBC Scotland and various other clubs on 21/05/2016, but our timidity in the final third of the park hasn't been addressed for over a year and that's down to the Board, naebody else.

I've had a gutful of "hard-luck" stories in my lifetime as a Hibs supporter and wish those that can influence things would take a punt once in a while...

How often do we not score in games? Just curious likesay... That was the third time this season, the only two others I believe were home and away against a very good Molde side. I’m not worried about our attacking side of play at all. Im actually more pleased that we still created all those chances last night while now starting to look solid at the back.

[norhfc]

I dont think any Hibs fan should use the term Hibsed it.....it annoyed me last night but have learned not to post anything negative after a defeat. Leave that term to the deluded ones, it has already came back and bit them in the erse, and will do again.

[One Day Soon]

I dont think any Hibs fan should use the term Hibsed it.....it annoyed me last night but have learned not to post anything negative after a defeat. Leave that term to the deluded ones, it has already came back and bit them in the erse, and will do again.

Correct. This is first base and if you can't get to it you're nowhere.

[EastThomasSTboy]

No, it was made up because it was a useful made-up stick to beat us with by our city rivals despite the fact that they were guilty of Jambottling a league and cup double in 1986 - a vastly bigger bit of choking than we have seen from any other Scottish club in the last 50 odd years.

But hey, you like to use the phrase because it gets you attention, allows you to troll and helps you to vent inaccurately and illogically on Neil Lennon's Hibs.

Agree totally with this post.

NO so-called HIBS Fan should use this term....if they do , they are a tosser.

[WhileTheChief..]

Come on, we're all friends here - tell us what you really think!:greengrin

Your posts kinda covered everything and saved me typing a lot so I just jumped to the point instead :wink:

[cleanyman]

The Hibsed it stuff really does grate with some though. You're all suckers in falling for it

Why?

Doesn't bother me at all

[Speedway]

Ach, I think your attitude is understandable and a necessary tough line for the players and management to take if we are ever going to finally punch our weight as a club.

But as a supporter, I'm not so bothered. I cant control or even influence how the team is going to do, so what's the point in getting wound up?

Yes, I hate getting beat by Hearts and the old firm. And cup finals have been sore. But aside from that, there's little point in supporters dwelling on it. If we get beat, I'll go off and do something else.

Perhaps its old age, or more likely the fact that we've smashed the Scottish Cup hoodoo. I dont think we'll ever live a better sporting moment in our lives than that. So I'm just going with the flow.

I think that represents quite a few of a certain age. I've certainly had the view expressed to me several times of 'We've won the cup, nothing else matters now'. I get that, but I want us to kick on.


Good Post :agree: And I'm not sure there's a need for the unnecessarily sarcastic and aggressive tone of posts on this thread. While I don't really agree completely, I can see Speedways point; I read the OP as a frustrated call against complacency, which is fair enough.

And that's what it is.

[jacomo]

Good Post :agree: And I'm not sure there's a need for the unnecessarily sarcastic and aggressive tone of posts on this thread. While I don't really agree completely, I can see Speedways point; I read the OP as a frustrated call against complacency, which is fair enough.


A frustrated call against complacency is one thing.

The intemperate ranting of last night was something else - wholly negative and more like a tantrum.

I happen to think that these supporters who wet the bed at every setback actually hold Hibs back, because they make no allowance for the natural ebb and flow that comes with breaking up teams and building new ones, an inevitability at our level. This neurotic behaviour becomes a nervousness that spreads to the players, making it harder for a real team dynamic to emerge.

But that’s another argument....

[Sir David Gray]

Last night's performance was one of the best I've seen from us for a long time and I've seen some good performances by Hibs teams in the last couple of years. We were streets and streets ahead of Aberdeen, the team who has been the second best team in the country for the last 4 years, to the point where the had given up trying to win the game from open play and were playing for penalties after 60 minutes.

Literally the only thing missing from the game last night was a goal from one of the many clear cut chances we created.

Now the opposing argument to what I've just said is that goals are the whole point of football and I get that. However you cannot have watched the game last night and come away thinking that Hibs bottled it or any of that nonsense. We played a very good match with the tactics spot on and just came up short in the final third.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we're not looking forward to another semi final but that happens sometimes in football. Our forwards need to work on their composure in front of goal, if they had taken their chances last night we really could have run up a cricket score.

Aberdeen may well be the ones that are progressing to the semi finals but I know which team I would rather pay money to go and watch.

Neil Lennon is the guy to take us forward, I have no doubts at all about that and we will be stronger as the season goes on.

If we play like we did last night for the rest of the season, it's impossible for us to not have a successful season.

[Beefster]

I bet a number of Hearts ********s are having a rare old laugh that a pishy term that has no basis in reality is now actually being used by some Hibs supporters.

Up there with saying that Stevenson comes across like a bit of a dick or nicknaming McLaren ‘gash’.

[Hiber-nation]

I think that represents quite a few of a certain age. I've certainly had the view expressed to me several times of 'We've won the cup, nothing else matters now'. I get that, but I want us to kick on.

.

You are actually 83 aye?

[egb_hibs]

Hearts do have more honours than Hibs largely due to our woeful record in finals. Then again, in the post war era there advantage is not so great at 9 vs 7, while Hibs are 4-3 up over the last half century.

If Hibsing it was ever a thing it was surrendering a 4-2 lead over hearts in injury time or a 6-2 lead over motherwell (was it 6-1 can't remember) not losing to an immediate rival in the lottery of penalties, and even then in sudden death.

Not sure if it finished that way, though I expect it did, but late last season I read that at the time Hibs has won more points from losing positions than any other team in Britain.

Thats not Hibsing it either.

That term died in May 2016 and lennon has taken it further: we are now a team that doesn't know when it's beat. We still haven't lost at home in open play to a Scottish team in 2018.

Your view is far too pessimistic.

[Hibs1969]

A few points from last night and beyond.

We weren't unlucky last night, we weren't nearly clinical enough and didn't take the numerous chances which came our way. Our outfield play was often excellent and we played some lovely stuff but our finishing was woeful and that cost us the tie. Expectations have risen markedly since we won the cup and after our recent European adventures so there's bound to be disappointment when we get knocked out of a cup competition after outplaying a rival at home but that's not only football but life in general.

Some of the comments on here about the 2012 final are well off the mark. Hibs did not crap it that day, we were beaten by a bigger, stronger, better drilled team, albeit one bought with other people's money. The same teams could play that game a dozen times over and we'd struggle to win with the makeshift side we put out that day. It was a miracle we got anywhere near that final given the struggles we had in the league over the previous couple of seasons. Our performances and results against Hearts since the financial playing field was levelled out shows how much of an advantage their money shenanigans gave them.

And finally, no self respecting Hibs fan should ever use the term 'Hibs'd it'. That phrase was invented by our biggest rivals to rip the p*ss out of us and using it only gives it a credibility it doesn't deserve.

[superfurryhibby]

Hearts do have more honours than Hibs largely due to our woeful record in finals. Then again, in the post war era there advantage is not so great at 9 vs 7, while Hibs are 4-3 up over the last half century.

If Hibsing it was ever a thing it was surrendering a 4-2 lead over hearts in injury time or a 6-2 lead over motherwell (was it 6-1 can't remember) not losing to an immediate rival in the lottery of penalties, and even then in sudden death.

Not sure if it finished that way, though I expect it did, but late last season I read that at the time Hibs has won more points from losing positions than any other team in Britain.

Thats not Hibsing it either.

That term died in May 2016 and lennon has taken it further: we are now a team that doesn't know when it's beat. We still haven't lost at home in open play to a Scottish team in 2018.

Your view is far too pessimistic.




A few points from last night and beyond.

We weren't unlucky last night, we weren't nearly clinical enough and didn't take the numerous chances which came our way. Our outfield play was often excellent and we played some lovely stuff but our finishing was woeful and that cost us the tie. Expectations have risen markedly since we won the cup and after our recent European adventures so there's bound to be disappointment when we get knocked out of a cup competition after outplaying a rival at home but that's not only football but life in general.

Some of the comments on here about the 2012 final are well off the mark. Hibs did not crap it that day, we were beaten by a bigger, stronger, better drilled team, albeit one bought with other people's money. The same teams could play that game a dozen times over and we'd struggle to win with the makeshift side we put out that day. It was a miracle we got anywhere near that final given the struggles we had in the league over the previous couple of seasons. Our performances and results against Hearts since the financial playing field was levelled out shows how much of an advantage their money shenanigans gave them.

And finally, no self respecting Hibs fan should ever use the term 'Hibs'd it'. That phrase was invented by our biggest rivals to rip the p*ss out of us and using it only gives it a credibility it doesn't deserve.

Well said from both posters.

My advice to those old enough to know better is that experience should tell you just to enjoy it whilst it lasts. Hibs have been mediocre to indifferent for much of my 48 years of going to matches. We’re far from that now and whilst I always want us to win every game, I’m not going to lose sleep when we lose.

[DetroitHibs]

I've come to the realization that we'll never consistently be a top 3-4 team and fall short in the cups more times than not. Until this frugal board and owners move on, this is where we are at.

[bigwheel]

I've come to the realization that we'll never consistently be a top 3-4 team and fall short in the cups more times than not. Until this frugal board and owners move on, this is where we are at.

You think new owners will result in us spending more?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kaimendhibs]

Quite right. Get in about them because they definitely missed those chances on purpose[emoji1785]
I hope it's communicated to the players how much cash we've lost out on due to their inability to hit a coo's erse with a banjo.

With the financial backing Hearts and the Sheep have every little counts and missing out on a Hampden Semi Final isn't something insignificant.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[Scotty Leither]

You think new owners will result in us spending more?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mibbes aye/naw - but they just might have a different mindset as to how to have us consistently punching our weight than the current Board has ever done.

[bigwheel]

Mibbes aye/naw - but they just might have a different mindset as to how to have us consistently punching our weight than the current Board has ever done.

We currently spend all that we take in.....so they would have to take on debt, or raise income to do anything different


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[IGRIGI]

Quite right. Get in about them because they definitely missed those chances on purpose[emoji1785]

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Aye that's what I said right enough.

[Scotty Leither]

We currently spend all that we take in.....so they would have to take on debt, or raise income to do anything different


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or seek outside investment other than HSL?

[bigwheel]

Or seek outside investment other than HSL?

That’s either going to be debt or equity..so same point...unless they get fans to pay more of the operating costs like Hearts have managed

[blackpoolhibs]

I disagreed with virtually everything speedway wrote last night, and most of todays efforts too. I did not like losing last night, i never do, but the bigger picture is what we should be looking at here.

We should not be looking back at what we were like in the past, but forward to where we want us to be and where our manager certainly wants us to be.

In fact after the turmoil of the last transfer window, where we lost the best midfield in Scotland in my opinion, yes even better than Celtic, we've bought well and are starting to play an even better style of football than what previously was on show.

If you must look back, just look where we were 2 seasons ago or 3 or 4 seasons back. We now have our manager building another side, bringing in a youngster from the development squad in at centre half, virtually a whole new midfield, and instead of just signing any old sheite, waiting for the players he wants and getting most of them.

We did not manage to get Allan in, and the place went into meltdown, we've never had 4 experienced strikers, but this is the reason we didnt win last night?

We are building the club again after a lot of disastrous seasons of ***** loanee's and even poorer signings. In 4 seasons we've gone from relegation to a cup win, a 4th place finish in the league, and even after the pre season we had, have started well enough to sit equal 2nd.

We have players signed on long deals, because Lennon is building the squad, we lost a cup quarter final against a side who have been comfortably 2nd in the league for the last 4/5 seasons, yet should have won because on the park we were better than them but had an off night in front of goal then lost on penalties.

**** happens, but under Lennon it does not happen a lot. Give him time, give him support, as he's the man who decides what formation, which tactics and who we sign.

We are a good side these days, but good sides still lose now and then, whether anyone finds it acceptable or not.

[PatHead]

I don’t get why folk are blaming last night’s defeat on the board. Have I missed something?

[The Green Goblin]

I see what you're saying and I welcome the return of debate rather than attack when opposing views are held..

You lost me for a moment at “Hibsed it” then again for good at “snowflakes”. (Sorry)

[bigwheel]

I disagreed with virtually everything speedway wrote last night, and most of todays efforts too. I did not like losing last night, i never do, but the bigger picture is what we should be looking at here.

We should not be looking back at what we were like in the past, but forward to where we want us to be and where our manager certainly wants us to be.

In fact after the turmoil of the last transfer window, where we lost the best midfield in Scotland in my opinion, yes even better than Celtic, we've bought well and are starting to play an even better style of football than what previously was on show.

If you must look back, just look where we were 2 seasons ago or 3 or 4 seasons back. We now have our manager building another side, bringing in a youngster from the development squad in at centre half, virtually a whole new midfield, and instead of just signing any old sheite, waiting for the players he wants and getting most of them.

We did not manage to get Allan in, and the place went into meltdown, we've never had 4 experienced strikers, but this is the reason we didnt win last night?

We are building the club again after a lot of disastrous seasons of ***** loanee's and even poorer signings. In 4 seasons we've gone from relegation to a cup win, a 4th place finish in the league, and even after the pre season we had, have started well enough to sit equal 2nd.

We have players signed on long deals, because Lennon is building the squad, we lost a cup quarter final against a side who have been comfortably 2nd in the league for the last 4/5 seasons, yet should have won because on the park we were better than them but had an off night in front of goal then lost on penalties.

**** happens, but under Lennon it does not happen a lot. Give him time, give him support, as he's the man who decides what formation, which tactics and who we sign.

We are a good side these days, but good sides still lose now and then, whether anyone finds it acceptable or not.

BH you have gone from biggest moaner to one of my favourite posters these days ...it’s all a but unsettling. [emoji2]

[blackpoolhibs]

BH you have gone from biggest moaner to one of my favourite posters these days ...it’s all a but unsettling. [emoji2]

Its because things are good at the club, no matter what some folk keep saying. These are good times for us, we are playing decent stuff most of the time and have been punching our weight as a club.

When we are pish, and i hope to god thats not for a long time, i will say its pish, but for now we are doing fine.

Could it be better, of course but by how much?

It could be a lot worse and has been, so why not enjoy whats happening now? :confused:

[Scotty Leither]

That’s either going to be debt or equity..so same point...unless they get fans to pay more of the operating costs like Hearts have managed

Good point...so with the amount of accountants in the Board at ER i would imagine our due diligence would be the most thorough there's ever been when it comes to vetting would-be investors.

A dilution of the major shareholding while bringing in fresh money whose bona fides are established beyond any doubt would help, no?

Is that not something our much-vaunted Board should be looking at?

[blackpoolhibs]

Good point...so with the amount of accountants in the Board at ER i would imagine our due diligence would be the most thorough there's ever been when it comes to vetting would-be investors.

A dilution of the major shareholding while bringing in fresh money whose bona fides are established beyond any doubt would help, no?

Is that not something our much-vaunted Board should be looking at?

Can you tell me why they are not doing this?

[bigwheel]

Its because things are good at the club, no matter what some folk keep saying. These are good times for us, we are playing decent stuff most of the time and have been punching our weight as a club.

When we are pish, and i hope to god thats not for a long time, i will say its pish, but for now we are doing fine.

Could it be better, of course but by how much?

It could be a lot worse and has been, so why not enjoy whats happening now? :confused:

I’m the same as you ...this is as good as it’s been..long may we continue progressing

[blackpoolhibs]

I’m the same as you ...this is as good as it’s been..long may we continue progressing


:agree: . :hibees

[Speedway]

I’m the same as you ...this is as good as it’s been..long may we continue progressing

Honest, genuine question. What would you say is our best route for progressing outside of external investment?

I’d say it was highest possible league and cup placings leading us to Euro qualification.

[One Day Soon]

I've come to the realization that we'll never consistently be a top 3-4 team and fall short in the cups more times than not. Until this frugal board and owners move on, this is where we are at.

Completely disagree. Could not disagree more in fact. Consistent top 3-4 team that doesn't fall short in cups more time than not is exactly where we are heading right now with this Board and this manager. In fact if we hold on to Lennon for anything like the next three or four years I expect we will be looking back afterwards at one of the best periods in our club's history.

And if any Mr or Ms Moneybags wanted to come in and support those efforts right now I think Tom Farmer would welcome them with open arms, providing they weren't some kind of Romanov or other dodgy figure. The slight problem with that thesis is that there are no sugar daddies or mummies out there looking to invest millions in our club.

[bigwheel]

Honest, genuine question. What would you say is our best route for progressing outside of external investment?

I’d say it was highest possible league and cup placings leading us to Euro qualification.

Yep..winning games...

And continue to spend our existing money well on recruitment as we seem to have been doing..think it's quite amazing that we seem to have largely replaced McGinn, McGeouch, Allan, Barker in one window.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PatHead]

Completely disagree. Could not disagree more in fact. Consistent top 3-4 team that doesn't fall short in cups more time than not is exactly where we are heading right now with this Board and this manager. In fact if we hold on to Lennon for anything like the next three or four years I expect we will be looking back afterwards at one of the best periods in our club's history.

And if any Mr or Ms Moneybags wanted to come in and support those efforts right now I think Tom Farmer would welcome them with open arms, providing they weren't some kind of Romanov or other dodgy figure. The slight problem with that thesis is that there are no sugar daddies or mummies out there looking to invest millions in our club.

Bought a lottery ticket for the first time in ages for tonight. If it comes in, I am in!!!

[Speedway]

Yep..winning games...

And continue to spend our existing money well on recruitment as we seem to have been doing..think it's quite amazing that we seem to have largely replaced McGinn, McGeouch, Allan, Barker in one window.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agreed and however much we disagree on last night, it’s cost us in terms of progression financially and it’s benefitted the rivals.

Winning these games is so vital to our progress.

[bigwheel]

Agreed and however much we disagree on last night, it’s cost us in terms of progression financially and it’s benefitted the rivals.

Winning these games is so vital to our progress.

Yes it costs us ...but these things happen - let’s see where we end up..I expect us to be ahead of Aberdeen in the league at the end of the season ...

[Speedway]

Yes it costs us ...but these things happen - let’s see where we end up..I expect us to be ahead of Aberdeen in the league at the end of the season ...

I hope we are.

[One Day Soon]

Bought a lottery ticket for the first time in ages for tonight. If it comes in, I am in!!!

If I had a big lottery win I'd love to buy the club a filled-in corner or two. It would make the stadium a much noiser place and accommodate all those extra season tickets we're going to need over the next decade...:greengrin

[Scotty Leither]

[QUOTE=One Day Soon;55612

The slight problem with that thesis is that there are no sugar daddies or mummies out there looking to invest millions in our club.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be quite so rigid in your dismissal of there
currently being no monied people wanting to invest in Hibs.

[PatHead]

No sense in signing that Griffiths chap. Just missed a couple of chances

[superfurryhibby]

I wouldn't be quite so rigid in your dismissal of there
currently being no monied people wanting to invest in Hibs.

Care to elaborate, just to enlighten those of us who have no idea?

My understanding is that there are already opportunities to invest in the club, but clearly we would benefit from the kind of investment that Aberdeen have had from mystery benefactors in recent seasons.

[Borderhibbie76]

I hope it's communicated to the players how much cash we've lost out on due to their inability to hit a coo's erse with a banjo.

With the financial backing Hearts and the Sheep have every little counts and missing out on a Hampden Semi Final isn't something insignificant.I've just posted on tonight's match thread I'm a bit fed up with Hibs hard luck stories yes we played well last night but the players need to learn and make sure we put teams away when we are so on top. It sucks we've missed out on a Hampden trip due to the inability of the likes of Boyle Flo and Shaw to convert easy chances last night...I hope they are hurting from it like we all are and ensure it doesn't happen again.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[DetroitHibs]

Completely disagree. Could not disagree more in fact. Consistent top 3-4 team that doesn't fall short in cups more time than not is exactly where we are heading right now with this Board and this manager. In fact if we hold on to Lennon for anything like the next three or four years I expect we will be looking back afterwards at one of the best periods in our club's history.

And if any Mr or Ms Moneybags wanted to come in and support those efforts right now I think Tom Farmer would welcome them with open arms, providing they weren't some kind of Romanov or other dodgy figure. The slight problem with that thesis is that there are no sugar daddies or mummies out there looking to invest millions in our club.

I don't think we need to be pumping millions in to the club, but I don't buy for a second that all the funds from McGinn, season tickets, Murray etc were spent on bolstering the squad. Lennon stated that he wanted more players on the lead up to the window and got nowt. Club should have pushed the boat out for Allan and another forward. Time will tell, but if you take a look at the big picture since Petrie and co have been here, it's pretty grim stats.

[marinello59]

I've just posted on tonight's match thread I'm a bit fed up with Hibs hard luck stories yes we played well last night but the players need to learn and make sure we put teams away when we are so on top. It sucks we've missed out on a Hampden trip due to the inability of the likes of Boyle Flo and Shaw to convert easy chances last night...I hope they are hurting from it like we all are and ensure it doesn't happen again.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Last night wasn’t a hard luck story though. We got what we deserved because despite being the better team we couldn’t score. Of course they are hurting, why wouldn’t they be?

[One Day Soon]

I wouldn't be quite so rigid in your dismissal of there
currently being no monied people wanting to invest in Hibs.

Okay, I'll bite. Why is that?

[Borderhibbie76]

Last night wasn’t a hard luck story though. We got what we deserved because despite being the better team we couldn’t score. Of course they are hurting, why wouldn’t they be?Good coz it hurt as supporters to be so on top and blow a chance of a cup semi final...I mean the hard luck stories on here about we were unlucky, best team lost etc. I agree..we only have ourselves to blames all 3 of Boyle Flo and Shaw missed absolute sitters last night and it's cost us...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Scotty Leither]

[QUOTE=superfurryhibby;5561321]Care to elaborate, just to enlighten those of us who have no idea?

No sorry, I can't as I'd be betraying a confidence from two non-havering sources whom I trust.

Strikes me though that the Board are quite happy with the current set up of the existing shareholding being slightly diminished by HSL as that represents the zero-risk strategy that they've always favoured.

For that reason there'll always be a disconnect between people like me who think the club are capable of achieving so much more, and our Board who I think have a different mindset.

Beyond that I'm over and oot for the night.

[One Day Soon]

I don't think we need to be pumping millions in to the club, but I don't buy for a second that all the funds from McGinn, season tickets, Murray etc were spent on bolstering the squad. Lennon stated that he wanted more players on the lead up to the window and got nowt. Club should have pushed the boat out for Allan and another forward. Time will tell, but if you take a look at the big picture since Petrie and co have been here, it's pretty grim stats.

"got nowt"? Kamberi, Horgan, Mallan, Milligan...don't they count?

[blackpoolhibs]

Good coz it hurt as supporters to be so on top and blow a chance of a cup semi final...I mean the hard luck stories on here about we were unlucky, best team lost etc. I agree..we only have ourselves to blames all 3 of Boyle Flo and Shaw missed absolute sitters last night and it's cost us...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I didnt see any hard luck stories, most were saying we played well but missed a host of chances, which was factually true?

It happens, the best team on the night dont always win, im pretty sure it will happen again to us at some time in the future.

[Borderhibbie76]

I didnt see any hard luck stories, most were saying we played well but missed a host of chances, which was factually true?

It happens, the best team on the night dont always win, im pretty sure it will happen again to us at some time in the future.Am sure it will...just hurts 24 hours on missing such a golden chance to get to another semi final I guess

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Speedway]

And another thing... 🙂

Tonight’s teams just made sure they won and now the Semis are the OF, the sheep and the Yam.

I was looking forward to beating the yam in the final.

[DetroitHibs]

"got nowt"? Kamberi, Horgan, Mallan, Milligan...don't they count?

Going in to the end of the window, Lennon stated he wanted another couple of players. He didn't get what he wanted. I didn't say we didn't sign any players, just don't feel we signed enough players for a team competing in four competitions this year. The squad is pretty thin IMO.

[w pilton hibby]

I don't think we need to be pumping millions in to the club, but I don't buy for a second that all the funds from McGinn, season tickets, Murray etc were spent on bolstering the squad. Lennon stated that he wanted more players on the lead up to the window and got nowt. Club should have pushed the boat out for Allan and another forward. Time will tell, but if you take a look at the big picture since Petrie and co have been here, it's pretty grim stats.

So where do you think the unspent money is going?

[DetroitHibs]

So where do you think the unspent money is going?

Okay take the season ticket money, along with the money from McGinn, Murray and Europe and we didn't even spend half of that IMO. Where's it going? Good question. I think we had the money to bring in another 1-2 quality players, especially up front.

[Lemonade]

Okay take the season ticket money, along with the money from McGinn, Murray and Europe and we didn't even spend half of that IMO. Where's it going? Good question. I think we had the money to bring in another 1-2 quality players, especially up front.

How much did we make from Europe ?

[Forza Fred]

Luck is a supernatural concept, it doesn't exist. I get that it's a word used to describe events either going in your favour or against you but it's not down to some mysterious force, it's as a result of your own or another person/groups actions.

We lost last night because we failed to put the ball in the back of the net not because of some mystery ill fortune that befell us.

Late on in the debate due to time differences, but this sums up my view.

Scoring goals is a critical part of the game, and without scoring in some manner, you can’t win.

[Centre Hawf]

The question I have is why do I keep hearing the same things about Lennon "being a winner" or "Lennon's teams aren't soft/pushovers" when actually we seem to continue to drop stupid points or lose winnable cup games?

This isn't me saying Lennon out or really criticising Lennon himself I'm just genuinely quite intrigued as to why people offer these sayings as retorts for criticism of his side.

[One Day Soon]

Okay take the season ticket money, along with the money from McGinn, Murray and Europe and we didn't even spend half of that IMO. Where's it going? Good question. I think we had the money to bring in another 1-2 quality players, especially up front.

What makes you think we had all the money for McGinn in time for the window? How much did we get for McGinn?

[Michael]

The question I have is why do I keep hearing the same things about Lennon "being a winner" or "Lennon's teams aren't soft/pushovers" when actually we seem to continue to drop stupid points or lose winnable cup games?

This isn't me saying Lennon out or really criticising Lennon himself I'm just genuinely quite intrigued as to why people offer these sayings as retorts for criticism of his side.

Probably because Lennon was the manager that led us to the Championship and our highest points tally since the SPL was invented.

[One Day Soon]

Probably because Lennon was the manager that led us to the Championship and our highest points tally since the SPL was invented.

You with your facts.

[Forza Fred]

Yes it costs us ...but these things happen - let’s see where we end up..I expect us to be ahead of Aberdeen in the league at the end of the season ...

We have the 5th largest budget of all the teams in Scotland.

My expectations are that Aberdeen will finish above us, as probably, those other clubs who are able to pay more than us will also finish above us.

However, we won’t know until the end of the season.

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=superfurryhibby;5561321]Care to elaborate, just to enlighten those of us who have no idea?

No sorry, I can't as I'd be betraying a confidence from two non-havering sources whom I trust.

Strikes me though that the Board are quite happy with the current set up of the existing shareholding being slightly diminished by HSL as that represents the zero-risk strategy that they've always favoured.

For that reason there'll always be a disconnect between people like me who think the club are capable of achieving so much more, and our Board who I think have a different mindset.

Beyond that I'm over and oot for the night.

Ah, non-havering sources.

I understood that that the “slightly diminished “ shareholding tallied some c25% of the club, bewteen HSl and individual shareholders?

Why can’t these would be investors just show their hands? Imagine the backing they woulld get from fans if we knew we had benevolent backing that was being thwarted by our current custodians.

[Centre Hawf]

Probably because Lennon was the manager that led us to the Championship and our highest points tally since the SPL was invented.

Before I end up appearing like a Lennon out merchant. Let me just reiterate that I'm behind him.

I take all that on board and it's all valid. My point was more that people want to emphasise how much we've grown under Lennon in a winning mentality type of way, people use him as this reason that we won't accept substandard results etc. So why are some people accepting last night result in that case? Why are some people afraid to say that the way we've played this season so far has actually been quite average if i'm being honest.

[One Day Soon]

Before I end up appearing like a Lennon out merchant. Let me just reiterate that I'm behind him.

I take all that on board and it's all valid. My point was more that people want to emphasise how much we've grown under Lennon in a winning mentality type of way, people use him as this reason that we won't accept substandard results etc. So why are some people accepting last night result in that case? Why are some people afraid to say that the way we've played this season so far has actually been quite average if i'm being honest.

Probably because it hasn't.

[Scotty Leither]

[QUOTE=Scotty Leither;5561369]

Ah, non-havering sources.

I understood that that the “slightly diminished “ shareholding tallied some c25% of the club, bewteen HSl and individual shareholders?

Why can’t these would be investors just show their hands? Imagine the backing they woulld get from fans if we knew we had benevolent backing that was being thwarted by our current custodians.

I'll come back one last time then...

You asked me a question, I gave you a sincere answer. You've paraphrased what I've said to have a dig. Fair play to you.

Fact is though there's a discussion to be had about future ownership/funding of the club. The current model keeps us safe, and bumping along, maybe qualifying for Europe once in a while.

I think there's much more to be achieved than that, and it can be done by more sophisticated means than a binary plea to the fans to stump up more money or accept the status quo, and it's up to our Board to drive that.

Just my own tuppence worth, of course.

[Centre Hawf]

Probably because it hasn't.

The way we've played has been average for me. Livingston was dreadful, Ross County was a bit of a let off. I even think the win Vs Killie was too. I don't think we've really got going yet, maybe that's a positive to some people. But for me I want to see us step up that extra level. That mean less soft goals conceded, a bit more clinical, and a consistent midfield.

[matty_f]

Good point...so with the amount of accountants in the Board at ER i would imagine our due diligence would be the most thorough there's ever been when it comes to vetting would-be investors.

A dilution of the major shareholding while bringing in fresh money whose bona fides are established beyond any doubt would help, no?

Is that not something our much-vaunted Board should be looking at?

Do you read these boards? The Board certainly aren't much-vaunted, I see Dempster getting praise regularly, beyond that you rarely see anyone posting praise about the board - though you see people defending them when folk are criticising them.

I think there's a mistaken perception that the board as popular on here, I think it's closer to the truth that most people don't care so long as the team are doing well.

[CropleyWasGod]

Income is the other major consideration. Aberdeen had £15.28m at last accounts versus our £7.7m and Hearts £11.3m

That's quite a difference.It's been said many times before. You can't use those figures as meaningful comparisons.

We contract out our shop and catering income. They don't. So their turnover is bound to be much higher than ours. So, too are the related staff and stock costs.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=superfurryhibby;5561488]

I'll come back one last time then...

You asked me a question, I gave you a sincere answer. You've paraphrased what I've said to have a dig. Fair play to you.

Fact is though there's a discussion to be had about future ownership/funding of the club. The current model keeps us safe, and bumping along, maybe qualifying for Europe once in a while.

I think there's much more to be achieved than that, and it can be done by more sophisticated means than a binary plea to the fans to stump up more money or accept the status quo, and it's up to our Board to drive that.

Just my own tuppence worth, of course.

I didn’t paraphrase, I quoted what you said.

You’re right, there definitely is a discussion worth having around future funding/ ownership of the club. The dig is around your dismissal of the extent of the dilution of the current owners shareholding. At least 25% is quite significant, is it not?

As I said, if there are people wanting to invest then they should show their hand. I have often wondered what the future planning is for the club in the event of STF no longer being with us. I also understaood that he has previously said he wouldn’t stand in the way of anyone wishing to purchase his stake in the club ( no doubt subject to due diligence etc).

You’re clearly frustrated at the current status quo, so tell us more about the alternative. As I said, fans would be very disenchanted with the current situation if they knew there was benevolent investment available, but untapped.

What’s stopping these people from coming forward?

[calumhibee1]

The way we've played has been average for me. Livingston was dreadful, Ross County was a bit of a let off. I even think the win Vs Killie was too. I don't think we've really got going yet, maybe that's a positive to some people. But for me I want to see us step up that extra level. That mean less soft goals conceded, a bit more clinical, and a consistent midfield.

I don’t think that can be argued with. We were brutal against Ross County and lucky that we got away with it, even worse against Livi where it could have been a couple more and lucky to beat Killie in all honesty. Throw in a defeat at home in the cup and dropped points in the league against St J and then Aberdeen at home aswell and It’s not been a bad start to the season but it’s certainly not been better than an average/decent start IMO. Especially when you consider we’ve not played either of the OF or Hearts yet.

[Ray_]

A lot of my frustration last night came from posters who took the 'Unlucky Hibs' angle, choosing to focus on how much we'd dominated the match (which we did) rather than the fact that we're now out of 50% of the competitions we can realistically win each season and don't have the prize money to use in the transfer market because people who are paid to score, can't, and some boy can't put the ball in the net from 12 yards without hitting the post, bar or keeper.

I posted that I've seen a disproportionate amount of defeat in my time for a club that's the 4th biggest in the land. The facts back me up. We have more relegations and major final defeats than our closest rivals.

I posted that I hoped we weren't returning to a time when we 'Hibsed it' meaning 'lost when we should have won' or 'bottling it'. During this period of this term being in use, many posters on here excused the results by finding the positives. They were termed 'Happy Clappers'

I know you may disagree, but I don't find positives in defeat. I believe, as fans, that we should demand success in the way that our current manager demands success. That's the only way we'll become bigger and more successful as a club without major investment.

We need the money, we have to win knockout games regardless of how well we play and how poor we make the opposition look. Only winning matters 'in the final analysis' (Copyright Rod Petrie 2011)

Otherwise we risk May 2016 turning into a 'but but but...' response in years to come when we've won nothing since.

We have 10 major honours in our 143 year history. The Yam have 16 and the Sheep have 19 including their Euro honours.

So we can play as well as we want, it doesn't compensate for defeat and when you disagree with a view by telling the holder of that view to **** off, I'll rise to that bait everytime and come back at you with both barrels for being poor wee sensitive loser-minded snowflakes who need to be told how well they played but make up for the fact that they lost. :greengrin

So, surely we can agree that to progress as a club, we need honours and prize money. In my view, no amount of possession or good play compensates.

We DO run the risk of returning to an era of 'Unlucky Hibs' and 'Plucky defeat' and 'On another day we'd have won that 28-0' because bank managers and players predominantly care about the money and the honours and I believe we should too.

So where many posters take the positives of how we dominated (and we did) I look at the fact that one of our closest rivals, who were pony last night, nevertheless are step closer to honours and now have the money from a semi final that we don't. I don't see this as acceptable or good enough. I know you may disagree.

Sorry Speedway I really don't know where are coming from here as I think the Hibs team under Neil Lennon has more will to win in it than any Hibs team I've seen in the past and that includes the TT's, who if they had what today's team has, there would have surely have been the trophy's which would have better reflected the talent that team had. Aberdeen are not great going forward but they can do a job on you, as they did to Hibs on Tuesday night, but it was more to do with bad decision making and finishing by Hibs players than the Aberdeen team. This was our first defeat at ER this year and you are turning it in to a defining moment and I think you are so wrong.

The best Hibs team I have seen are by far the TT's and they were even worse at digging out results than this team, especially when you consider the talent they had, best examples would be when Rangers won the Scottish cup replay at ER 2-1, after we had outplayed them at Ibrox and they scraped a 1-1 draw and we absolutely battered them in the game at ER, far more so than we did against Aberdeen on Tuesday and they came away with a win. There was also the East Fife game which a few days after the 7-0, they sat in and it took a very late goal by Alan Gordon for us to take the points, that East Fife team wasn't a patch on Aberdeen's current side and the following week we got beat at Tanadice and yet a couple of months earlier we score five against them at the same venue in the league cup.

I think we should be celebrating a team that has at last got the spirit [if not fully talented] to win far more games than we lose and hopefully the fans will stay with us and see us progress, the time I'm dreading is when Lennon is lured away, that will have far more impact than any player leaving.

Incidently, I do think that we performed average during the window, true we brought in some gems, but we have enough of a staff to identify targets and bring them in a lot earlier than we did and we have only just brought in cover for the LB position and we are nearly in October and he has to get up to speed and not to have adequet cover up front is likely to have lost us the game on Tuesday, we need to be better in this part of our business as undoubtedly it has cost us points and cup revenue.

[superfurryhibby]

I don’t think that can be argued with. We were brutal against Ross County and lucky that we got away with it, even worse against Livi where it could have been a couple more and lucky to beat Killie in all honesty. Throw in a defeat at home in the cup and dropped points in the league against St J and then Aberdeen at home aswell and It’s not been a bad start to the season but it’s certainly not been better than an average/decent start IMO. Especially when you consider we’ve not played either of the OF or Hearts yet.

We’re third in the League, despite all of this. I’ll counter you’re clain about the Killie game though. We won a game against a good side. We deserved it because we played better than them. Point dropped v Aberdeen was a pity, but we were the better side, not too shoddy when you consider they have been the 2nd best side in the country these past four years.

My report card reads decent start, but room for improvement. Indicators are that we will.

[Speedway]

Where I’m coming from Ray, is that we don’t win honours and money nearly as much as a club of our size in our country should or even as much as our closest rivals have in their history and I want to know why that is.

We have the most major final defeats out of us Hearts and Aberdeen and while recent history has indeed been the best in memory, no question, wastefulness has now stopped us beating poor Aberdeen sides in knockout competitions twice since we won the cup, giving the money on offer to them not us.

A selection of our fans seem disappointed at that but not raging. This seems to be because we’ve tasted success recently.

I want us to have the mentality where nothing but victory is acceptable. I accept we cannot change much from the stands but we can be known throughout the club and support for being winners constantly rather than winners once.

The ‘Nevermind, we played well’ mindset, doesn’t sit well with me.

‘All for goals and glory’? Well no, apparently not. ‘All for goals and taking the positives from defeat and losing money’ just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

[calumhibee1]

We’re third in the League, despite all of this. I’ll counter you’re clain about the Killie game though. We won a game against a good side. We deserved it because we played better than them. Point dropped v Aberdeen was a pity, but we were the better side, not too shoddy when you consider they have been the 2nd best side in the country these past four years.

My report card reads decent start, but room for improvement. Indicators are that we will.

I know, I think our league position shows that it’s been a decent start. I do think/hope there should be more to come.

[BILLYHIBS]

I know, I think our league position shows that it’s been a decent start. I do think/hope there should be more to come.
Agreed with you Callum thought we got away with one against a very good Killie side. Efes challenge in the box in the last minute totally mistimed and a stonewall penalty. Dems the breaks and they even out over the season. 3 points is 3 points!

[Ray_]

Where I’m coming from Ray, is that we don’t win honours and money nearly as much as a club of our size in our country should or even as much as our closest rivals have in their history and I want to know why that is.

We have the most major final defeats out of us Hearts and Aberdeen and while recent history has indeed been the best in memory, no question, wastefulness has now stopped us beating poor Aberdeen sides in knockout competitions twice since we won the cup, giving the money on offer to them not us.

A selection of our fans seem disappointed at that but not raging. This seems to be because we’ve tasted success recently.

I want us to have the mentality where nothing but victory is acceptable. I accept we cannot change much from the stands but we can be known throughout the club and support for being winners constantly rather than winners once.

The ‘Nevermind, we played well’ mindset, doesn’t sit well with me.

‘All for goals and glory’? Well no, apparently not. ‘All for goals and taking the positives from defeat and losing money’ just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

And what I'm saying is ET didn't manage to achieve what you want with a far more talent group of players than we have had at any time since my first game in 65. The relegation and the changes thereafter HAS brought a different mindset to the club and we are the ONLY team outside Celtic to win a major trophy since those changes, thank goodnees people inside the club don't have your mindset otherwise we would forever be doomed to failure.

[Smartie]

Where I’m coming from Ray, is that we don’t win honours and money nearly as much as a club of our size in our country should or even as much as our closest rivals have in their history and I want to know why that is.

We have the most major final defeats out of us Hearts and Aberdeen and while recent history has indeed been the best in memory, no question, wastefulness has now stopped us beating poor Aberdeen sides in knockout competitions twice since we won the cup, giving the money on offer to them not us.

A selection of our fans seem disappointed at that but not raging. This seems to be because we’ve tasted success recently.

I want us to have the mentality where nothing but victory is acceptable. I accept we cannot change much from the stands but we can be known throughout the club and support for being winners constantly rather than winners once.

The ‘Nevermind, we played well’ mindset, doesn’t sit well with me.

‘All for goals and glory’? Well no, apparently not. ‘All for goals and taking the positives from defeat and losing money’ just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

I was a lot angrier after the Aberdeen cup semi a couple of years ago.

I thought we were ridiculously wasteful that day, we gave away goals that were unforgivable and our slackness cost us a really good chance at winning the Scottish Cup again - and we don't know when another opportunity like that might come along.

The other night feels genuinely different to me. Every now and again you lose a game and you just need to shrug your shoulders - and that was one.

By reacting the wrong way to a defeat or a poor performance you can cause yourself more problems - and I think that the atmosphere around Easter Road as we were on our descent after losing the Golden generation contributed to our descent.

I'm not suggesting that we always meekly accept defeat, but veery so often you need to take one on the chin and move on, I think Tuesday's game was one of those.

If we play badly and drop points on Saturday we can get the pitchforks back out again.

[Scotty Leither]

Do you read these boards? The Board certainly aren't much-vaunted, I see Dempster getting praise regularly, beyond that you rarely see anyone posting praise about the board - though you see people defending them when folk are criticising them.

I think there's a mistaken perception that the board as popular on here, I think it's closer to the truth that most people don't care so long as the team are doing well.

I do read these boards, yes.

What I get from them is whenever there's a discussion about our BoD, the majority of posters take umbrage at any criticism of the Board. In that vein though, there's probably ignorance at the financial situation at Easter Road from both sides of the argument. Myself included.

Perhaps Leanne could come on here as she has done in the past and set us straight on a few things - in a manner that Petrie has never done - maybe that would settle a few gripes/arguments, who knows?

You yourself are as much entitled to your opinion as anybody, but given you're a moderator on the forum, any of your posts have a slightly "editorial" feel to them, which gives a bit of credence to Hibs.net being labelled as pro-Board.

[Centre Hawf]

Agreed with you Callum thought we got away with one against a very good Killie side. Efes challenge in the box in the last minute totally mistimed and a stonewall penalty. Dems the breaks and they even out over the season. 3 points is 3 points!

I agree with you and Callum. I also didn’t think we were particularly better than Kilie to justify the 3 points regardless of how we got them. We let a 2 goal lead slip within about 20 minutes.

I think Milligan looks to have made the midfield a bit more solid which was something we were lacking when Marv got injured. I hope having him allows the likes of Horgan, Hyndman etc to create some chances cause at the moment on Tuesdays showing we may need to create a fair few before finding the net.

[lapsedhibee]

I do read these boards, yes.

What I get from them is whenever there's a discussion about our BoD, the majority of posters take umbrage at any criticism of the Board. In that vein though, there's probably ignorance at the financial situation at Easter Road from both sides of the argument. Myself included.

Perhaps Leanne could come on here as she has done in the past and set us straight on a few things - in a manner that Petrie has never done - maybe that would settle a few gripes/arguments, who knows?

You yourself are as much entitled to your opinion as anybody, but given you're a moderator on the forum, any of your posts have a slightly "editorial" feel to them, which gives a bit of credence to Hibs.net being labelled as pro-Board.

Nah.

[Speedway]

And what I'm saying is ET didn't manage to achieve what you want with a far more talent group of players than we have had at any time since my first game in 65. The relegation and the changes thereafter HAS brought a different mindset to the club and we are the ONLY team outside Celtic to win a major trophy since those changes, thank goodnees people inside the club don't have your mindset otherwise we would forever be doomed to failure.

What relevance does that bear though. What has gone before doesn't dictate what can be done now.

Why be the only club outside Celtic to win a major trophy since the changes when we can be the only club outside Celtic to win the double since those changes?

We've got to think bigger then find the money to fund the ambition. Too many are settling for 'some' progress rather than major 'progress'.

Otherwise, why compete if we're not out to win?

[Smartie]

What relevance does that bear though. What has gone before doesn't dictate what can be done now.

Why be the only club outside Celtic to win a major trophy since the changes when we can be the only club outside Celtic to win the double since those changes?

We've got to think bigger then find the money to fund the ambition. Too many are settling for 'some' progress rather than major 'progress'.

Otherwise, why compete if we're not out to win?

I think we maybe just disagree about how best to go about "winning".

Every team in the history of football has lost from time to time - it is how you react to those losses that makes the team and determines progress.

Sometimes you need to chuck the toys out of the pram, but sometimes you just need to let it wash over you and continue what you're doing.

I like the old clip of Fergie berating his Aberdeen team when they'd just won a cup final, because even sometimes when you win you've been lucky and got away with doing lots of stuff wrong.

We were good on Wednesday and whilst the result wasn't what we were looking for, we need to cut the players, the manager and everyone else at the club a bit of slack because if they keep doing things the way they're doing them right now, we will not just compete but we will win.

Patience.

[Speedway]

I think we maybe just disagree about how best to go about "winning".

Every team in the history of football has lost from time to time - it is how you react to those losses that makes the team and determines progress.

Sometimes you need to chuck the toys out of the pram, but sometimes you just need to let it wash over you and continue what you're doing.

I like the old clip of Fergie berating his Aberdeen team when they'd just won a cup final, because even sometimes when you win you've been lucky and got away with doing lots of stuff wrong.

We were good on Wednesday and whilst the result wasn't what we were looking for, we need to cut the players, the manager and everyone else at the club a bit of slack because if they keep doing things the way they're doing them right now, we will not just compete but we will win.

Patience.

I'm all out of patience I'm afraid.

Lennon himself is quoted as saying 'The players know they let this one slip away'

'Let' suggesting it was in our hands, which it was.

I can accept being beaten by better sides who deserve to win, even though I don't like it.

However I never want us to be guilty of 'letting' one slip away, especially when this is one of those rare times when we have everything in place to build a new era of success.

[matty_f]

I do read these boards, yes.

What I get from them is whenever there's a discussion about our BoD, the majority of posters take umbrage at any criticism of the Board. In that vein though, there's probably ignorance at the financial situation at Easter Road from both sides of the argument. Myself included.

Perhaps Leanne could come on here as she has done in the past and set us straight on a few things - in a manner that Petrie has never done - maybe that would settle a few gripes/arguments, who knows?

You yourself are as much entitled to your opinion as anybody, but given you're a moderator on the forum, any of your posts have a slightly "editorial" feel to them, which gives a bit of credence to Hibs.net being labelled as pro-Board.

Ironically enough, the only time Hibs.net as a site (well, the admins anyway) have adopted a stance was post relegation where we backed the campaign for Petrie to leave.

The site has no editorial stance at all. The admins post using the usernames they have always had when giving opinions. We all have an HNA username to use in an admin capacity if we feel the need.

My views hold no more weight than your views, or anyone elses, really.

And when you say the majority of posters take umbrage, i'd urge you to check again - my best guess is that at most your majority equates to around four or five of the same people.

Apologies if this is a bit picky, but it's a pet hate of mine - hibs.net is, and always had been and always will be, independent. The site is just a platform for fans to share their views. Some fans share your view, others don't, neither are the concern of the site or the admin unless folk can't debate sensibly or, as we've had to deal with in the past, chuck allegations around that aren't substantiated.

For the record, I'm neither pro or anti the board. I just want to see us winning football matches and playing to the best of our potential. At the moment I think we're not far from that and heading in the right direction. So I'm happy. When the time comes that I'm not, I'll say so, as I did when we were relegated.

[PatHead]

How do you feel when we win ugly?

[superfurryhibby]

I think we maybe just disagree about how best to go about "winning".

Every team in the history of football has lost from time to time - it is how you react to those losses that makes the team and determines progress.

Sometimes you need to chuck the toys out of the pram, but sometimes you just need to let it wash over you and continue what you're doing.

I like the old clip of Fergie berating his Aberdeen team when they'd just won a cup final, because even sometimes when you win you've been lucky and got away with doing lots of stuff wrong.

We were good on Wednesday and whilst the result wasn't what we were looking for, we need to cut the players, the manager and everyone else at the club a bit of slack because if they keep doing things the way they're doing them right now, we will not just compete but we will win.

Patience.

I’ve learned that my emotions have no impact on the outcome of a football match and neither does moaning about it on here. I try and prevent myself fretting about things I can’t change in life. Otherwise, I’d be a mental and emotionall wreck.

That doesn’t mean I can’t feel passionate about Hibs or suffer disappointment, but I’m not going to be endlessly repeating myself on here, that can’t be healthy?

That’s why I’m interested in what we can change or do differently, hence I’m intrigued about Scotty Leither’s suggestion that the current owners are an obstacle to outside investment. More money would surely be an obvious way of improving our chances of the kind of success we all want.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't think we need to be pumping millions in to the club, but I don't buy for a second that all the funds from McGinn, season tickets, Murray etc were spent on bolstering the squad. Lennon stated that he wanted more players on the lead up to the window and got nowt. Club should have pushed the boat out for Allan and another forward. Time will tell, but if you take a look at the big picture since Petrie and co have been here, it's pretty grim stats.

No one claimed that all the McGinn money etc had been spent. We’ve got an indoor training facility to build soon that will probably cost a bit.

If you think it’s been grim under Petrie go back and check out the previous 20 years.

[WhileTheChief..]

Where I’m coming from Ray, is that we don’t win honours and money nearly as much as a club of our size in our country should or even as much as our closest rivals have in their history and I want to know why that is.

We have the most major final defeats out of us Hearts and Aberdeen and while recent history has indeed been the best in memory, no question, wastefulness has now stopped us beating poor Aberdeen sides in knockout competitions twice since we won the cup, giving the money on offer to them not us.

A selection of our fans seem disappointed at that but not raging. This seems to be because we’ve tasted success recently.

I want us to have the mentality where nothing but victory is acceptable. I accept we cannot change much from the stands but we can be known throughout the club and support for being winners constantly rather than winners once.

The ‘Nevermind, we played well’ mindset, doesn’t sit well with me.

‘All for goals and glory’? Well no, apparently not. ‘All for goals and taking the positives from defeat and losing money’ just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

All of your posts on this subject seem to boil down to the fact that not everyone felt the same as you after the game.

Most of us were disappointed but you were raging.

You want us all to think the same as you?

A tad arrogant no?

[CropleyWasGod]

I do read these boards, yes.

What I get from them is whenever there's a discussion about our BoD, the majority of posters take umbrage at any criticism of the Board. In that vein though, there's probably ignorance at the financial situation at Easter Road from both sides of the argument. Myself included.

Perhaps Leanne could come on here as she has done in the past and set us straight on a few things - in a manner that Petrie has never done - maybe that would settle a few gripes/arguments, who knows?

You yourself are as much entitled to your opinion as anybody, but given you're a moderator on the forum, any of your posts have a slightly "editorial" feel to them, which gives a bit of credence to Hibs.net being labelled as pro-Board.

That's unfair on Matty.

He might be an admin prick, but he talks as much independently-minded bollocks (positive and negative) as any of us. :greengrin

[Smartie]

I’ve learned that my emotions have no impact on the outcome of a football match and neither does moaning about it on here. I try and prevent myself fretting about things I can’t change in life. Otherwise, I’d be a mental and emotionall wreck.

That doesn’t mean I can’t feel passionate about Hibs or suffer disappointment, but I’m not going to be endlessly repeating myself on here, that can’t be healthy?

That’s why I’m interested in what we can change or do differently, hence I’m intrigued about Scotty Leither’s suggestion that the current owners are an obstacle to outside investment. More money would surely be an obvious way of improving our chances of the kind of success we all want.

Hibs.net is a great place to vent, let off steam and if you have a particular viewpoint (unpalatable as it may be within certain boundaries) then this is the place to do it.

I'm referring more to the way we behave within the stadium. In the past, we've not been the most supportive bunch and we've made ER a very difficult place for our own players to play. In recent years we've had a feel-good factor that has worked both ways, and we've been able to cheer our team on to success.

I do think our emotions and frustrations can get to the players, and what I'm keen to do in debating this point is to avoid us trying to talk ourselves into some sort of crisis. We're a few points behind Hearts - big deal, it's September. We've dropped a few points - big deal, we've had to rebuild our entire team. We've just lost on penalties to the team that has finished 2nd for the past 4 seasons in a game that we dominated - big deal.

I like the idea of not tolerating failure, but it mustn't be counter-productive in bringing about an atmosphere of fear that can affect our players, and at a time when our team seems to be coming together nicely I don't want to see us derailing ourselves.

A bad performance or result on Saturday however.......

[Ray_]

What relevance does that bear though. What has gone before doesn't dictate what can be done now.

Why be the only club outside Celtic to win a major trophy since the changes when we can be the only club outside Celtic to win the double since those changes?

We've got to think bigger then find the money to fund the ambition. Too many are settling for 'some' progress rather than major 'progress'.

Otherwise, why compete if we're not out to win?


If it is as easy as that go find us a multi-billionaire and we can be the next Chelsea or Man City.

[Speedway]

All of your posts on this subject seem to boil down to the fact that not everyone felt the same as you after the game.

Most of us were disappointed but you were raging.

You want us all to think the same as you?

A tad arrogant no?

It would certainly be if it was but it isn't so it's not.


If it is as easy as that go find us a multi-billionaire and we can be the next Chelsea or Man City.

I was talking about ambition from board and support alike but never mind let's just finish fourth, win a cup every decade and be delighted.

[BILLYHIBS]

Sitting in a boozer a Jambo just announces to the whole pub “well that’s the four big teams in the semis ! “

Ragin ! Need to bring them down a peg or two

Speaking of pegs !

😁

[Ray_]

It would certainly be if it was but it isn't so it's not.



I was talking about ambition from board and support alike but never mind let's just finish fourth, win a cup every decade and be delighted.

The board has been in place now for 28 years and if you haven't yet fathomed their level of [on the field] ambition you never will. As for the fans, I remember 11,00 crowds with the likes of Sauzee and Latapy and even in the TT era when we played against East Fife in the game that I had mentioned earlier, we had gone top after that 7-0 win and that had followed us having won the two cup competitions that had been completed that season, we were also awaiting a Cup winners Cup quarter final tie after beating one of Europe's bigger teams 6-1 in the previous round and we got what was then a superb crowd of 17,00 for the East Fife game. On Saturday our crowd was bigger than the one that attended the East Fife game almost 46 years ago.

If your age is correct on your profile, Hibs had unparalleled success in your mid to late teens and nothing [except Joe Baker] after that until the Summer Cup success in 64 and then the Drybrough Cup in 72 & 73, with the 72 league cup in between and then followed by the 91 & 2007 successes and the holly grail in 2016. We had some great players and played some wonderful football between 1965 and 75 but it has been pretty grim for most of the forty plus years since.

All in all, I would consider the current period, with the infrastructure we have already in place and the level of support we have as one of the most enterprising periods of time we have had over the last fifty years and we don't have to rely on a Tom Hart to have us here. We do not have a divine right to be at the top and we will make mistakes, I still think having Petrie around is one of them, but it is difficult to find a time in my lifetime when we have been in a better position on and off the park.

[Stevie Reid]

The board has been in place now for 28 years and if you haven't yet fathomed their level of [on the field] ambition you never will. As for the fans, I remember 11,00 crowds with the likes of Sauzee and Latapy and even in the TT era when we played against East Fife in the game that I had mentioned earlier, we had gone top after that 7-0 win and that had followed us having won the two cup competitions that had been completed that season, we were also awaiting a Cup winners Cup quarter final tie after beating one of Europe's bigger teams 6-1 in the previous round and we got what was then a superb crowd of 17,00 for the East Fife game. On Saturday our crowd was bigger than the one that attended the East Fife game almost 46 years ago.

If your age is correct on your profile, Hibs had unparalleled success in your mid to late teens and nothing [except Joe Baker] after that until the Summer Cup success in 64 and then the Drybrough Cup in 72 & 73, with the 72 league cup in between and then followed by the 91 & 2007 successes and the holly grail in 2016. We had some great players and played some wonderful football between 1965 and 75 but it has been pretty grim for most of the forty plus years since.

All in all, I would consider the current period, with the infrastructure we have already in place and the level of support we have as one of the most enterprising periods of time we have had over the last fifty years and we don't have to rely on a Tom Hart to have us here. We do not have a divine right to be at the top and we will make mistakes, I still think having Petrie around is one of them, but it is difficult to find a time in my lifetime when we have been in a better position on and off the park.

Great post.

[One Day Soon]

The board has been in place now for 28 years and if you haven't yet fathomed their level of [on the field] ambition you never will. As for the fans, I remember 11,00 crowds with the likes of Sauzee and Latapy and even in the TT era when we played against East Fife in the game that I had mentioned earlier, we had gone top after that 7-0 win and that had followed us having won the two cup competitions that had been completed that season, we were also awaiting a Cup winners Cup quarter final tie after beating one of Europe's bigger teams 6-1 in the previous round and we got what was then a superb crowd of 17,00 for the East Fife game. On Saturday our crowd was bigger than the one that attended the East Fife game almost 46 years ago.

If your age is correct on your profile, Hibs had unparalleled success in your mid to late teens and nothing [except Joe Baker] after that until the Summer Cup success in 64 and then the Drybrough Cup in 72 & 73, with the 72 league cup in between and then followed by the 91 & 2007 successes and the holly grail in 2016. We had some great players and played some wonderful football between 1965 and 75 but it has been pretty grim for most of the forty plus years since.

All in all, I would consider the current period, with the infrastructure we have already in place and the level of support we have as one of the most enterprising periods of time we have had over the last fifty years and we don't have to rely on a Tom Hart to have us here. We do not have a divine right to be at the top and we will make mistakes, I still think having Petrie around is one of them, but it is difficult to find a time in my lifetime when we have been in a better position on and off the park.

Stunningly good post.

[Lemonade]

The board has been in place now for 28 years and if you haven't yet fathomed their level of [on the field] ambition you never will. As for the fans, I remember 11,00 crowds with the likes of Sauzee and Latapy and even in the TT era when we played against East Fife in the game that I had mentioned earlier, we had gone top after that 7-0 win and that had followed us having won the two cup competitions that had been completed that season, we were also awaiting a Cup winners Cup quarter final tie after beating one of Europe's bigger teams 6-1 in the previous round and we got what was then a superb crowd of 17,00 for the East Fife game. On Saturday our crowd was bigger than the one that attended the East Fife game almost 46 years ago.

If your age is correct on your profile, Hibs had unparalleled success in your mid to late teens and nothing [except Joe Baker] after that until the Summer Cup success in 64 and then the Drybrough Cup in 72 & 73, with the 72 league cup in between and then followed by the 91 & 2007 successes and the holly grail in 2016. We had some great players and played some wonderful football between 1965 and 75 but it has been pretty grim for most of the forty plus years since.

All in all, I would consider the current period, with the infrastructure we have already in place and the level of support we have as one of the most enterprising periods of time we have had over the last fifty years and we don't have to rely on a Tom Hart to have us here. We do not have a divine right to be at the top and we will make mistakes, I still think having Petrie around is one of them, but it is difficult to find a time in my lifetime when we have been in a better position on and off the park.



Ooft

[Speedway]

The board has been in place now for 28 years and if you haven't yet fathomed their level of [on the field] ambition you never will. As for the fans, I remember 11,00 crowds with the likes of Sauzee and Latapy and even in the TT era when we played against East Fife in the game that I had mentioned earlier, we had gone top after that 7-0 win and that had followed us having won the two cup competitions that had been completed that season, we were also awaiting a Cup winners Cup quarter final tie after beating one of Europe's bigger teams 6-1 in the previous round and we got what was then a superb crowd of 17,00 for the East Fife game. On Saturday our crowd was bigger than the one that attended the East Fife game almost 46 years ago.

If your age is correct on your profile, Hibs had unparalleled success in your mid to late teens and nothing [except Joe Baker] after that until the Summer Cup success in 64 and then the Drybrough Cup in 72 & 73, with the 72 league cup in between and then followed by the 91 & 2007 successes and the holly grail in 2016. We had some great players and played some wonderful football between 1965 and 75 but it has been pretty grim for most of the forty plus years since.

All in all, I would consider the current period, with the infrastructure we have already in place and the level of support we have as one of the most enterprising periods of time we have had over the last fifty years and we don't have to rely on a Tom Hart to have us here. We do not have a divine right to be at the top and we will make mistakes, I still think having Petrie around is one of them, but it is difficult to find a time in my lifetime when we have been in a better position on and off the park.

By board, do you mean ownership, as the current board hasn't even been in place for 4 years, nevermind 28.

I don't disagree with the rest of the post, but again it's the nature of outlook. If I understand correctly, you're saying we've (almost) never had it so good.

That's great, but it's still not even as good as our closest rivals so why settle for it? Let's aim higher.

[Chic Murray]

By board, do you mean ownership, as the current board hasn't even been in place for 4 years, nevermind 28.

I don't disagree with the rest of the post, but again it's the nature of outlook. If I understand correctly, you're saying we've (almost) never had it so good.

That's great, but it's still not even as good as our closest rivals so why settle for it? Let's aim higher.

What exactly does that mean? Who are our closest rivals and what have they got that's better than us?

I'm with Ray, and am struggling to find a time in my lifetime when things have been so good. I'm not sure what more we can realistically expect, and am happy with improving season on season, rather than going for bust with a pipedream.

[Speedway]

What exactly does that mean? Who are our closest rivals and what have they got that's better than us?

I'm with Ray, and am struggling to find a time in my lifetime when things have been so good. I'm not sure what more we can realistically expect, and am happy with improving season on season, rather than going for bust with a pipedream.

Hearts, Aberdeen, Major Honours (Both), Crowds (Hearts) and Income (Both).

[Chic Murray]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Major Honours (Both), Crowds (Hearts) and Income (Both).

It's some time since either of those won a major honour; we had bigger crowds than both last season; I'll have to take your word for it on income, but we sold a player for a large profit recently, and Lennon has a track record of trading well, so perhaps the next set of accounts will reflect that.

I think you are taking a very selective view of the facts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Major Honours (Both), Crowds (Hearts) and Income (Both).

Again with this.

It's been said, many times before, that you can't just compare the turnovers of the 3 clubs and come to any rational conclusion.

[superfurryhibby]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Major Honours (Both), Crowds (Hearts) and Income (Both).

We can’t undo the past and our appalling record of losing major finals? Without bothering to check, I believe the teams have all won the league the same number of times?

Crowds, Hearts had the advantage of Murrayfield and very big crowds v Aberdeen and Rangers. The current attendances are so close that the numbers are virtually irrelevant to income streams? Surely you recognise that attendances at all three clubs fluctuate according to their current fortunes and the reality is that there is so little to choose betweent them that It doesn’t matter just now.

Income. You will surely already have read on here that there are differences in the way the clubs operate that influence turnover stats. They’re not the full story and should probably be considered alongside other tactors, like outgoings?

Both Hearts and Aberdeen have had the benefit of myster benefactors and I believe the annual accounts for us were based on the season before, when we were in the Championship?

Aim higher, based on what? What do you think we can do that we aren’t already

[WhileTheChief..]

If the opening post had been written 20 or 30 years ago then fair enough.

It’s utterly bizarre that he waits until the best period we’ve enjoyed as a club for decades to write this nonsense.

I guess we can look forward to more of the same each time we drop points as someone’s got to take the blame. Aweseome.

[blackpoolhibs]

If the opening post had been written 20 or 30 years ago then fair enough.

It’s utterly bizarre that he waits until the best period we’ve enjoyed as a club for decades to write this nonsense.

I guess we can look forward to more of the same each time we drop points as someone’s got to take the blame. Aweseome.

Or even 4 years ago? :agree:

[Speedway]

Again with this.

It's been said, many times before, that you can't just compare the turnovers of the 3 clubs and come to any rational conclusion.

I'll rephrsase your honour. More income in terms of cash gifts from benefactors, subscribers to fan led initiatives and playing budget.


We can’t undo the past and our appalling record of losing major finals? Without bothering to check, I believe the teams have all won the league the same number of times?

Crowds, Hearts had the advantage of Murrayfield and very big crowds v Aberdeen and Rangers. The current attendances are so close that the numbers are virtually irrelevant to income streams? Surely you recognise that attendances at all three clubs fluctuate according to their current fortunes and the reality is that there is so little to choose betweent them that It doesn’t matter just now.

Income. You will surely already have read on here that there are differences in the way the clubs operate that influence turnover stats. They’re not the full story and should probably be considered alongside other tactors, like outgoings?

Both Hearts and Aberdeen have had the benefit of myster benefactors and I believe the annual accounts for us were based on the season before, when we were in the Championship?

Aim higher, based on what? What do you think we can do that we aren’t already

That's interesting. Should we know our place at 4th or 5th?

I'm glad Man City decided to continue staying in their place and not radically transform their identity and income. They might have had to move from Maine Road otherwise.


If the opening post had been written 20 or 30 years ago then fair enough.

It’s utterly bizarre that he waits until the best period we’ve enjoyed as a club for decades to write this nonsense.

I guess we can look forward to more of the same each time we drop points as someone’s got to take the blame. Aweseome.

Nonsense to want better and continually improve? What an absolutely telling outlook that is.


Or even 4 years ago? :agree:

Or the first failed playoff under Stubbs.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'll rephrsase your honour. More income in terms of cash gifts from benefactors, subscribers to fan led initiatives and playing budget.



.

What are the respective playing budgets of the 3 clubs? Hibs and Hearts don't publish their expenditure on players. I don't know if Aberdeen do.

[Chic Murray]

I'll rephrsase your honour. More income in terms of cash gifts from benefactors, subscribers to fan led initiatives and playing budget.



That's interesting. Should we know our place at 4th or 5th?

I'm glad Man City decided to continue staying in their place and not radically transform their identity and income. They might have had to move from Maine Road otherwise.



Nonsense to want better and continually improve? What an absolutely telling outlook that is.



Or the first failed playoff under Stubbs.

I want to moonwalk son, but life's a pisser.

What is it that you think we should aim for? You're great at telling us what you don't want, less helpful when it comes to saying what you think we can achieve.

[Speedway]

What are the respective playing budgets of the 3 clubs? Hibs and Hearts don't publish their expenditure on players. I don't know if Aberdeen do.

So while I collate that, you agree on the other two factors giving our rivals more income to spend on players than we have via the same routes?

[Speedway]

I want to moonwalk son, but life's a pisser.

What is it that you think we should aim for? You're great at telling us what you don't want, less helpful when it comes to saying what you think we can achieve.

I want us to win but I'm surrounded by losers sweetheart.

We can achieve Europe every year and we can win cups more than once a decade and we can get relegated less than 3 decades out of the last 6.

[ian cruise]

I think you can find positives in a defeat, it doesn't mean you are adopting a loser mentality.

For me were still gelling as a team and finding out rhythm. Considering we lost the spine of our team and injuries have disrupted our flow a bit we're in a good position and the performance showed we aren't too far away from the end of last season performance wise.

That doesn't mean it's not disappointing to go out, and there are lessons to be learned but hopefully the team learn quickly. If we're still not scoring and losing games late on because we can't kill teams off in a few weeks time then I'll start to worry we're back to old habits.

Priorities for me are always SC, league position that will give us European football then League Cup. I'm not meaning to play down the importance of winning a trophy and I don't think of LC as a diddy cup but European football is a huge priority for me. Obviously I'd like to have both but it's not to be this season.

[ian cruise]

I want us to win but I'm surrounded by losers sweetheart.

We can achieve Europe every year and we can win cups more than once a decade and we can get relegated less than 3 decades out of the last 6.

As I said in my previous post I think the fact we're bedding in new players has a lot to do with why some, like myself, found positives. If this was still last years team with McGinn, McGeough and Allan and a fit Flo/MacLaren up front then I'd be in a similar position to yourself regarding the feeling of disappointment.

[SRHibs]

I want us to win but I'm surrounded by losers sweetheart.

We can achieve Europe every year and we can win cups more than once a decade and we can get relegated less than 3 decades out of the last 6.

Celtic don’t win every game. Barcelona don’t win every game. No team wins every game. You had a complete overreaction to drawing/losing a game which, in reality, we should’ve won. On the evidence of that game, we will be winners the majority of the time over the course of the season. I’m not sure what more you want.

I’ve never seen someone have such a meltdown over a league cup game before.

[Chic Murray]

I want us to win but I'm surrounded by losers sweetheart.

We can achieve Europe every year and we can win cups more than once a decade and we can get relegated less than 3 decades out of the last 6.

Ah, I get it now, you're the only one marching in step. :rolleyes:

I'd say your aims are realistic and I think we are aiming for that.

Out of interest what teams outwith the OF, have consistently won two cups every decade? Even at the height of financial doping, the Yams could only manage one a decade. You have to go back to the 80s, which was in itself quite a unique decade, to find any provincial clubs that have achieved that.


Celtic don’t win every game. Barcelona don’t win every game. No team wins every game. You had a complete overreaction to drawing/losing a game which, in reality, we should’ve won. On the evidence of that game, we will be winners the majority of the time over the course of the season. I’m not sure what more you want.

I’ve never seen someone have such a meltdown over a league cup game before.

Yeah but they should be We can easily be bigger than them, it would appear.

[superfurryhibby]

I want us to win but I'm surrounded by losers sweetheart.

We can achieve Europe every year and we can win cups more than once a decade and we can get relegated less than 3 decades out of the last 6.

If only wanting us to win made any difference, we would have won that damned cup a long time ago. Calling fellow fans losers, using the term Hibsed it, calling a key player gash in order to educate us, quality input.

[Smartie]

Hibs are never going to scale the heights we want them to until we all horrifically over-react to narrow defeats on penalties to good teams we have just dominated.

Anyone who disagrees is a loser.

Am I getting this right?

[flash]

All this over a match we didn't even lose.

[WhileTheChief..]

Hibs are never going to scale the heights we want them to until we all horrifically over-react to narrow defeats on penalties to good teams we have just dominated.

Anyone who disagrees is a loser.

Am I getting this right?

Yup, you got it.

Not only that, it’s us losers who are part of the problem.

You’ve really got to start chuckin your toys out more often.

[BILLYHIBS]

The preseason posts on these threads:

Jamie Mac is gash. :faf:

Punt Porteous out on loan :faf:

Still make me laugh !

Its what makes HIBS.net so good. :greengrin

[Tinribs]

Ah, I get it now, you're the only one marching in step. :rolleyes:

I'd say your aims are realistic and I think we are aiming for that.

Out of interest what teams outwith the OF, have consistently won two cups every decade? Even at the height of financial doping, the Yams could only manage one a decade. You have to go back to the 80s, which was in itself quite a unique decade, to find any provincial clubs that have achieved that.



Yeah but they should be We can easily be bigger than them, it would appear.

I agree with all that, but a point of order on the term "provincial"
The OF are provincial clubs, and this dictionary definition sums their city up quite well I feel- 😀
2.
of or concerning the regions outside the capital city of a country, especially when regarded as unsophisticated or narrow-minded.

[Chic Murray]

I agree with all that, but a point of order on the term "provincial"
The OF are provincial clubs, and this dictionary definition sums their city up quite well I feel- 😀
2.
of or concerning the regions outside the capital city of a country, especially when regarded as unsophisticated or narrow-minded.

Happy to stand corrected.

[Speedway]

As I said in my previous post I think the fact we're bedding in new players has a lot to do with why some, like myself, found positives. If this was still last years team with McGinn, McGeough and Allan and a fit Flo/MacLaren up front then I'd be in a similar position to yourself regarding the feeling of disappointment.

Absolutely Ian, but every time there's a reason why it didn't happen for us such as the one above. The ones who are in the semi, don't need an excuse.


Celtic don’t win every game. Barcelona don’t win every game. No team wins every game. You had a complete overreaction to drawing/losing a game which, in reality, we should’ve won. On the evidence of that game, we will be winners the majority of the time over the course of the season. I’m not sure what more you want.

I’ve never seen someone have such a meltdown over a league cup game before.

Meltdown over one game. Have you not read the thread or not understood it?


Ah, I get it now, you're the only one marching in step. :rolleyes:

I'd say your aims are realistic and I think we are aiming for that.

Out of interest what teams outwith the OF, have consistently won two cups every decade? Even at the height of financial doping, the Yams could only manage one a decade. You have to go back to the 80s, which was in itself quite a unique decade, to find any provincial clubs that have achieved that.



Yeah but they should be We can easily be bigger than them, it would appear.

What teams HAVE done it and What team can do it, are very different. Imagine progress/potential being measured purely by historical performance.


If only wanting us to win made any difference, we would have won that damned cup a long time ago. Calling fellow fans losers, using the term Hibsed it, calling a key player gash in order to educate us, quality input.

I only react to abuse when those who can't handle a viewpoint different to theirs start throwing it. Hence the title of this thread. Hearts would not have been able to invent the term, had we not have provided them so much evidence for it.


Hibs are never going to scale the heights we want them to until we all horrifically over-react to narrow defeats on penalties to good teams we have just dominated.

Anyone who disagrees is a loser.

Am I getting this right?

No, you're not. Improve.


Yup, you got it.

Not only that, it’s us losers who are part of the problem.

You’ve really got to start chuckin your toys out more often.

Or be like our manager, who always reacts calmly after our matches because he knows the truth which is that we won a cup a couple of years ago so nothing else matters now. We've achieved our potential. We should know our place and be happy with it. Don't ever try for more.

[SRHibs]

Absolutely Ian, but every time there's a reason why it didn't happen for us such as the one above. The ones who are in the semi, don't need an excuse.



Meltdown over one game. Have you not read the thread or not understood it?



What teams HAVE done it and What team can do it, are very different. Imagine progress/potential being measured purely by historical performance.



I only react to abuse when those who can't handle a viewpoint different to theirs start throwing it. Hence the title of this thread. Hearts would not have been able to invent the term, had we not have provided them so much evidence for it.



No, you're not. Improve.



Or be like our manager, who always reacts calmly after our matches because he knows the truth which is that we won a cup a couple of years ago so nothing else matters now. We've achieved our potential. We should know our place and be happy with it. Don't ever try for more.

Just because you have cited historical facts in your post doesn’t make me believe this is anything other than a complete overreaction to the Aberdeen game. Carry on as you will though.

[BILLYHIBS]

If Jamie Maclaren had started against Aberdeen in the LCQF we would now be in the semis no doubt about it.

[Tug Wilson]

If Jamie Maclaren had started against Aberdeen in the LCQF we would now be in the semis no doubt about it.

But isn't he Gash?

[allmodcons]

Or be like our manager, who always reacts calmly after our matches because he knows the truth which is that we won a cup a couple of years ago so nothing else matters now. We've achieved our potential. We should know our place and be happy with it. Don't ever try for more.

Quality thread you've started here SW!

If your quote above refers to Neil Lennon and isn't supposed to be ironic I'd say you've completely lost the plot?

If the intention is irony then you could learn a thing or two from listening to NL. He's more often than not very honest after a defeat but, from what I recall, was not overly critical after losing out to Aberdeen on penalties.

For me, you messed up big style used the Jambo instigated term 'Hibsed it'. An unjust, derogatory term initiated by our rivals for the sole purpose of belittling our club.

A term no self respecting Hibs fan would or should use.

[BILLYHIBS]

But isn't he Gash?

According to the guy that thinks he knows everything he is!

:faf:

[Keyser Sauzee]

Be as unhappy as u want after a defeat, nothing wrong with that at all but want I’m not getting my head round is what u actually want to happen on the back of this debate because 99.9% of the stuff that’s written on here and other forums means absolutely heehaw. Be ambitious that’s great but be realistic with it aswell.

[CropleyWasGod]

So while I collate that, you agree on the other two factors giving our rivals more income to spend on players than we have via the same routes?I neither agree nor disagree.

FOH bring in more than HSL, for sure. I've no idea how much of it is spent on players.

I've no idea how much Hearts alleged benefactors are putting in, or how that is spent.

I've no idea how much the Aberdeen scheme brings in, or how it is spent.

Maybe that will be clearer when we know what the respective playing staff budgets are.



Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Speedway]

Just because you have cited historical facts in your post doesn’t make me believe this is anything other than a complete overreaction to the Aberdeen game. Carry on as you will though.

'Just because you've used facts doesn't mean I believe you'...enough said.


Quality thread you've started here SW!

If your quote above refers to Neil Lennon and isn't supposed to be ironic I'd say you've completely lost the plot?

If the intention is irony then you could learn a thing or two from listening to NL. He's more often than not very honest after a defeat but, from what I recall, was not overly critical after losing out to Aberdeen on penalties.

For me, you messed up big style used the Jambo instigated term 'Hibsed it'. An unjust, derogatory term initiated by our rivals for the sole purpose of belittling our club.

A term no self respecting Hibs fan would or should use.

It is a bit isn't it. But a better a debate than bland stuff about dot counts.

Yes, the NL thing was indeed ironic. He wasn't overly critical after the Aberdeen game at all but he was after the Hearts game when we said goodbye to £500,000 worth of league prize money. He knew the impact that would have on him in the summer hence the 'I don't know if I have the appetite to rebuild' stuff he came out with at the time before missing the next press conference with 'the flu'.



Be as unhappy as u want after a defeat, nothing wrong with that at all but want I’m not getting my head round is what u actually want to happen on the back of this debate because 99.9% of the stuff that’s written on here and other forums means absolutely heehaw. Be ambitious that’s great but be realistic with it aswell.

What would you term as being realistic, KS and what would you term as being unrealistic?

[Speedway]

I neither agree nor disagree.

FOH bring in more than HSL, for sure. I've no idea how much of it is spent on players.

I've no idea how much Hearts alleged benefactors are putting in, or how that is spent.

I've no idea how much the Aberdeen scheme brings in, or how it is spent.

Maybe that will be clearer when we know what the respective playing staff budgets are.



Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Here's our starting point then based on available information.

https://www.insider.co.uk/special-reports/scottish-football-clubs-celtic-rangers-12149778

[Keyser Sauzee]

Well when u break it down the OF are so far away in terms of finance that they really should win it every year, Ofcourse it’s not as simple as that but I think a cup win every decade or so isn’t too unrealistic, I’d like it to be more Ofcourse but I don’t think that’s being realistic. Again, what exactly do U want to happen on the back of this debate?

[CropleyWasGod]

Here's our starting point then based on available information.

https://www.insider.co.uk/special-reports/scottish-football-clubs-celtic-rangers-12149778

And we come full circle back to my original point. That survey is based on information in the public domain ie available to you and I.

It says nothing about what the clubs' playing spend is. It makes huge assumptions about wages .

You cannot compare Hearts turnover with ours. You cannot compare their wage bill to ours, especially as they employ 3 times the number of people we do.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Here's our starting point then based on available information.

https://www.insider.co.uk/special-reports/scottish-football-clubs-celtic-rangers-12149778


This thread does throw up the question about what exactly is the potential for our club - theoretically we could win the league, and eventually progress to being European champions, and I suppose then the next question is if we say we can't do those things, are we doing exactly what you are 'complaining' about? (I use that word loosely, I couldn't think of a better word in its place).

I'd love to see us as successful as that, I'm sure we all would - and I think there are a couple of pathways to realising at least some of that potential.

The way I see it, is that we've put down foundations over the last couple of years - the club has invested in giving the manager the best possible tools to do his job (and by that, I mean players, coaching staff, facilities etc) within our budget - and that part is important.

We have hired a better calibre of manager than I can remember us getting in my lifetime, I can't think of a more decorated manager than Lennon when we recruited him.

We have a team that has internationalists throughout it, with potential for more. We've just signed a guy that played at the World Cup just passed, and a guy with a couple of caps for Holland.

I think the biggest difference between the relatively good times that we're enjoying just now (and they are relatively good) and the good teams previously, is that we are set up for it to be sustainable. There is a level of planning and deliberating across all the key aspects of the club, and we're looking at incrimental improvements as and when we can make them.

An example being the weights in the gym at East Mains - I was fortunate enough to visit there a few months ago and the guy in charge of the gym (whose name escapes me) said that the current weights there were now a limiting factor as the players weren't getting anything from lifting them - they weren't heavy enough. Those weights were being replaced with heavier ones - it's a small detail but it is (IMHO) a good indicator of the plans to keep progressing the club.

European football should be our aim again this season, and once qualified we should aim to go further than we did this season, and then the same again the season after until we're established at that level and enjoy the financial rewards that come with it so we can move closer to the ultimate goal of bringing tangible success regularly.

I think understanding all of that context and being able to understand that the result on Tuesday is part and parcel of sport and not necessarily a sign that we're perennial underachievers (because history shouldn't limit our ambition, right?) makes the result and the reaction to it less of an issue.

[SRHibs]

'Just because you've used facts doesn't mean I believe you'...enough said.

Is that really how you interpreted what I said? Facts are facts. I can’t possibly disagree with that. I still think this post is a knee jerk reaction though.

I think any sane Hibs fan wants us to win as much as you do. We aren’t accepting mediocrity, we’re accepting that you can’t win them all. Sometimes you play extremely well and lose, sometimes you play extremely poorly and win. Do I think it’s part of a larger pattern which we’ve come to just accept? No.

In NL’s 2 seasons he’s gained promotion, then got us into Europe. We are on course for another great season with a squad that is just beginning to mesh together. Progression still feels like it’s happening. We are backing the manager, being ambitious in our signings, and there’s definitely a general feeling of positivity around the club, and the way the club is set up you get the feeling that we are going to be like this for the long haul (you never know, though). I don’t think our current position as a club deserves a thread like this.

This is probably all ground that’s been tread before, but I’ve not read all 6 pages of this thread. I’m going to continue to enjoy the squad we have, and the way we are playing. You do you.

[blackpoolhibs]

If Jamie Maclaren had started against Aberdeen in the LCQF we would now be in the semis no doubt about it.

I'm not really an advocate of playing injured players, i suffer from a bad back too, and the pain is sometimes horrific.

[Caversham Green]

And we come full circle back to my original point. That survey is based on information in the public domain ie available to you and I.

It says nothing about what the clubs' playing spend is. It makes huge assumptions about wages .

You cannot compare Hearts turnover with ours. You cannot compare their wage bill to ours, especially as they employ 3 times the number of people we do.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Also, it relates to 2016-17 when Hibs were in the Championship. That must skew whatever conclusion we're trying to reach (although I'm struggling to see what point is actually being made anyway).

[BILLYHIBS]

I'm not really an advocate of playing injured players, i suffer from a bad back too, and the pain is sometimes horrific.

Touche :thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

Touche :thumbsup:

And i'm certainly not as quick or mobile. :wink:

[BILLYHIBS]

And i'm certainly not as quick or mobile. :wink:

Yeah and according to the OP he is gash but if he was available we would be in the next round and would have saved the whole point of this thread but sadly he wasn’t and so here we are !! :greengrin

[jacomo]

'Just because you've used facts doesn't mean I believe you'...enough said.



It is a bit isn't it. But a better a debate than bland stuff about dot counts.

Yes, the NL thing was indeed ironic. He wasn't overly critical after the Aberdeen game at all but he was after the Hearts game when we said goodbye to £500,000 worth of league prize money. He knew the impact that would have on him in the summer hence the 'I don't know if I have the appetite to rebuild' stuff he came out with at the time before missing the next press conference with 'the flu'.




What would you term as being realistic, KS and what would you term as being unrealistic?


He picked the wrong team v Hearts. Then caused wholly avoidable worry by hinting he could leave.

The whole episode was hardly Lenny’s finest moment, but he had plenty of credit in the bank to draw on.

[Ray_]

Hearts, Aberdeen, Major Honours (Both), Crowds (Hearts) and Income (Both).

Hibs have their own training facility and have completed [for now] their stadium, neither Hearts or Aberdeen have that. I've seen six successful Hampden final performances by Hibs since my first game in 1965, Hearts have had three.

Hearts are doing excellently well with their crowds and fundraising and Aberdeen has a benefactor, but Hibs crowds are the best they've been since the fifties and it is where all the teams go from now that is important.

Aberdeen had Fergie and we can see the influence he was by the way Man U have capitulated since he retired, fair play to them [Aberdeen] for that, but when I went to my first game the last famous five's title seemed to be a lifetime before, it was actually 13 years previously, Aberdeen last won the title 33 years ago.

There are an awful lot of ifs and buts going on for any of the three clubs to be regarded the dominant one just now, we have had enough crap over the best part of 60 years, let us just enjoy the very obvious upsurge in provisional Scottish football while it is here, SKY TV has done all it can to make sure that the financial gulf between our football and down south is enoumous and yet, very often, I prefer to watch Scottish football.

[Tug Wilson]

This thread does throw up the question about what exactly is the potential for our club - theoretically we could win the league, and eventually progress to being European champions, and I suppose then the next question is if we say we can't do those things, are we doing exactly what you are 'complaining' about? (I use that word loosely, I couldn't think of a better word in its place).

I'd love to see us as successful as that, I'm sure we all would - and I think there are a couple of pathways to realising at least some of that potential.

The way I see it, is that we've put down foundations over the last couple of years - the club has invested in giving the manager the best possible tools to do his job (and by that, I mean players, coaching staff, facilities etc) within our budget - and that part is important.

We have hired a better calibre of manager than I can remember us getting in my lifetime, I can't think of a more decorated manager than Lennon when we recruited him.

We have a team that has internationalists throughout it, with potential for more. We've just signed a guy that played at the World Cup just passed, and a guy with a couple of caps for Holland.

I think the biggest difference between the relatively good times that we're enjoying just now (and they are relatively good) and the good teams previously, is that we are set up for it to be sustainable. There is a level of planning and deliberating across all the key aspects of the club, and we're looking at incrimental improvements as and when we can make them.

An example being the weights in the gym at East Mains - I was fortunate enough to visit there a few months ago and the guy in charge of the gym (whose name escapes me) said that the current weights there were now a limiting factor as the players weren't getting anything from lifting them - they weren't heavy enough. Those weights were being replaced with heavier ones - it's a small detail but it is (IMHO) a good indicator of the plans to keep progressing the club.

European football should be our aim again this season, and once qualified we should aim to go further than we did this season, and then the same again the season after until we're established at that level and enjoy the financial rewards that come with it so we can move closer to the ultimate goal of bringing tangible success regularly.

I think understanding all of that context and being able to understand that the result on Tuesday is part and parcel of sport and not necessarily a sign that we're perennial underachievers (because history shouldn't limit our ambition, right?) makes the result and the reaction to it less of an issue.

That's all well and good, but we lost a game which we dominated and went out a cup competition on the lottery of penalties. So it is obviously not working.

I suggest sacking Neil Lennon, selling East Mains, stop signing international players and get rid of Leann Dempster and all this damned structure she has brought to the club.

If only we had gotten through to the semi final of the League Cup then everything would be justified. But no, let's pack up our tents and call it a day.

Or am I overreacting?

[jacomo]

That's all well and good, but we lost a game which we dominated and went out a cup competition on the lottery of penalties. So it is obviously not working.

I suggest sacking Neil Lennon, selling East Mains, stop signing international players and get rid of Leann Dempster and all this damned structure she has brought to the club.

If only we had gotten through to the semi final of the League Cup then everything would be justified. But no, let's pack up our tents and call it a day.

Or am I overreacting?


Under reacting if anything.

You’ve not demanded answers from STF or told Rod tae gtf yet. What kind of Hibs fan are you?

[Tug Wilson]

Under reacting if anything.

You’ve not demanded answers from STF or told Rod tae gtf yet. What kind of Hibs fan are you?

Fair point. I really should have finished with a PETRIE!

[One Day Soon]

Eight pages of chasing in circles all because toys were thrown embarrassingly far out the pram after the Aberdeen game with no objectively defensible reason whatsoever. A dictionary definition performance of getting in a hole and then just digging and digging and digging.

So far it seems that:



The club's not ambitious enough
The Board's not ambitious enough
The fans aren't ambitious enough (apart from one of them)
Our history is crap
We're not progressing
McLaren is gash but somehow also would've won the game against Aberdeen
Our strikers don't try hard enough, they get in front of goal and think "You know what, I'm only going to sort of try to score here. I just cannae be arsed giving it a full go."
Apparently it's possible to mind-read Neil Lennon's motivation for comments after a Hearts game AND to distance diagnose whether or not he has flu
Other clubs have more money which is both our fault for not trying hard enough/not having made enough effort to find an equivalent mystery benefactor and simultaneously explains why they are doing better than us (even though they aren't) but also doesn't justify us not doing as well as them (even though we are)
It's acceptable to reference the most pejorative, dishonest, detached from reality term ever applied to our club despite the fact that it was coined by our rivals for no reason other than to give us a label with no foundation in reality
Perhaps most ludicrously of all we apparently 'bottled' the 2012 cup final.


Not so much the glass empty approach, more like denying that the glass even exists.

[Speedway]

Eight pages of chasing in circles all because toys were thrown embarrassingly far out the pram after the Aberdeen game with no objectively defensible reason whatsoever. A dictionary definition performance of getting in a hole and then just digging and digging and digging.

So far it seems that:



The club's not ambitious enough - correct
The Board's not ambitious enough - correct
The fans aren't ambitious enough (apart from one of them) - 6 actually.
Our history is crap - Mostly, yep.
We're not progressing - Not by enough, that’s true.
McLaren is gash but somehow also would've won the game against Aberdeen - yes to the first part, never said the second.

Our strikers don't try hard enough, they get in front of goal and think "You know what, I'm only going to sort of try to score here. I just cannae be arsed giving it a full go." - You forgot the midfielders can’t finish either.

Apparently it's possible to mind-read Neil Lennon's motivation for comments after a Hearts game AND to distance diagnose whether or not he has flu - Is it really?


Other clubs have more money which is both our fault for not trying hard enough/not having made enough effort to find an equivalent mystery benefactor and simultaneously explains why they are doing better than us (even though they aren't) but also doesn't justify us not doing as well as them (even though we are) - No we’re not and yes they are.

It's acceptable to reference the most pejorative, dishonest, detached from reality term ever applied to our club despite the fact that it was coined by our rivals for no reason other than to give us a label with no foundation in reality. LOL!! No reason? Would you like the you tube links? Nice whitewash.

Perhaps most ludicrously of all we apparently 'bottled' the 2012 cup final. - We won that one comfortably and dominated from the get go. No infighting in the squad at all. I’ll retract that one.


Not so much the glass empty approach, more like denying that the glass even exists.

Denial is certainly your strong suit.

[green day]

Eight pages of chasing in circles all because toys were thrown embarrassingly far out the pram after the Aberdeen game with no objectively defensible reason whatsoever. A dictionary definition performance of getting in a hole and then just digging and digging and digging.

So far it seems that:



The club's not ambitious enough
The Board's not ambitious enough
The fans aren't ambitious enough (apart from one of them)
Our history is crap
We're not progressing
McLaren is gash but somehow also would've won the game against Aberdeen
Our strikers don't try hard enough, they get in front of goal and think "You know what, I'm only going to sort of try to score here. I just cannae be arsed giving it a full go."
Apparently it's possible to mind-read Neil Lennon's motivation for comments after a Hearts game AND to distance diagnose whether or not he has flu
Other clubs have more money which is both our fault for not trying hard enough/not having made enough effort to find an equivalent mystery benefactor and simultaneously explains why they are doing better than us (even though they aren't) but also doesn't justify us not doing as well as them (even though we are)
It's acceptable to reference the most pejorative, dishonest, detached from reality term ever applied to our club despite the fact that it was coined by our rivals for no reason other than to give us a label with no foundation in reality
Perhaps most ludicrously of all we apparently 'bottled' the 2012 cup final.


Not so much the glass empty approach, more like denying that the glass even exists.

Agreed, the sense of entitlement is almost Jambo-esque.

Cant imagine what some people would be like if they were Dundee / Dunfermline / QoS (to pick a few at random) fans genuinely starved of success for years

[SirDavidsNapper]

Hearts start and all the plaudits they have been getting has maybe masked the fact that this has been an excellent start for us. We're on more points now than we were at this stage last season. Last Tuesday was a travesty, it happens. We went out and won a few days later. We've got a chance on Saturday to make it four wins on the spin and make what was a 7 point gap 2 points. And i don't even think we've clicked into gear yet.

[matty_f]

Hearts start and all the plaudits they have been getting has maybe masked the fact that this has been an excellent start for us. We're on more points now than we were at this stage last season. Last Tuesday was a travesty, it happens. We went out and won a few days later. We've got a chance on Saturday to make it four wins on the spin and make what was a 7 point gap 2 points. And i don't even think we've clicked into gear yet.

Good post, I still think better is to come from us, so to be where we are at this point is some going.

[BILLYHIBS]

I don’t know why Speedway wastes his time on these threads conversing with us losers
He should just count his losses and join the other glory hunters on a Saturday on the buses heading west to Darkheid
According to his financial graphs they appear to be the only club with enough financial clout to match his ambition.
Just a shame the biscuit tin mentality is alive and kicking
If he does decide to stick it out with the rest of us to wait and see what happens the next time we win a trophy he will be in the corner with his face tripping him complaining it is not enough.
That is what is so good about being a Hibby you never know what is around the corner but these are the good times just enjoy them.
I can understand Speedways point of view but appears to be a massive overreaction to one defeat. We are headed in the right direction and if does happen it won’t be overnight
What did James Connolly say ”We only want the earth “

[WhileTheChief..]

Denial is certainly your strong suit.

Although I disagree entirely with the points you’ve made throughout this thread, I’ve got to admire your tenacity in keeping going with it!

[Speedway]

This thread does throw up the question about what exactly is the potential for our club - theoretically we could win the league, and eventually progress to being European champions, and I suppose then the next question is if we say we can't do those things, are we doing exactly what you are 'complaining' about? (I use that word loosely, I couldn't think of a better word in its place).

I'd love to see us as successful as that, I'm sure we all would - and I think there are a couple of pathways to realising at least some of that potential.

The way I see it, is that we've put down foundations over the last couple of years - the club has invested in giving the manager the best possible tools to do his job (and by that, I mean players, coaching staff, facilities etc) within our budget - and that part is important.

We have hired a better calibre of manager than I can remember us getting in my lifetime, I can't think of a more decorated manager than Lennon when we recruited him.

We have a team that has internationalists throughout it, with potential for more. We've just signed a guy that played at the World Cup just passed, and a guy with a couple of caps for Holland.

I think the biggest difference between the relatively good times that we're enjoying just now (and they are relatively good) and the good teams previously, is that we are set up for it to be sustainable. There is a level of planning and deliberating across all the key aspects of the club, and we're looking at incrimental improvements as and when we can make them.

An example being the weights in the gym at East Mains - I was fortunate enough to visit there a few months ago and the guy in charge of the gym (whose name escapes me) said that the current weights there were now a limiting factor as the players weren't getting anything from lifting them - they weren't heavy enough. Those weights were being replaced with heavier ones - it's a small detail but it is (IMHO) a good indicator of the plans to keep progressing the club.

European football should be our aim again this season, and once qualified we should aim to go further than we did this season, and then the same again the season after until we're established at that level and enjoy the financial rewards that come with it so we can move closer to the ultimate goal of bringing tangible success regularly.

I think understanding all of that context and being able to understand that the result on Tuesday is part and parcel of sport and not necessarily a sign that we're perennial underachievers (because history shouldn't limit our ambition, right?) makes the result and the reaction to it less of an issue.

There's two points there.

'Incremental growth' was the catchphrase of both Dougie Cromb and eaerly period Rod Petrie, before his 5 year plan and sporting success mantras took over.

Both were based on the aspiration of 'we want Hibs to be here for the next 100+ years'. Who would disagree there? But if that doesn't turn that into more silverware, more wealth and better football, why do we want there to be a Hibs in 125 years, we won't have seen much success and neither will the generations to follow.

Your sustainability point there Matty is the key for me. We've been here before-ish under Miller (cup win, Top 5 league finish, euro qualification) McLeish (Top 3 League finish and Europe) Mowbray (Top 4 League finish and Europe) and Yogi (Top 4 League finish and Europe) but it was never sustained.

IF it is now the case that we CAN sustain this level of competitive performance, then I agree, Europe is the way to fund growth.

Second point. The reaction to Aberdeen was not as a one off but rather as a continuation of a pattern of, as McInnes pointed out, the mentally stronger side holding their nerve and progressing. Now of course it could've gone either way, but it didn't, it went their way and when that happens regularly, you hand large financial advantage to competitors.

It is a fact that our major final record is worse than that of our rivals and I want to see that end by a mentally tougher Hibs putting teams away and us not 'looking for positives' when we fail to.

We can start by being more greedy and more hungry for success than we are.

What I object to, is the stated sense of relaxed outlook from fans who are happy with a cup win once a decade and the fact that things are generally OK.

I get that's good enough for some, but I don't think it should be.

[Speedway]

Although I disagree entirely with the points you’ve made throughout this thread, I’ve got to admire your tenacity in keeping going with it!

I'm just debating my point of view WTC that's all. :greengrin

Plenty on here can disagree with me yet still do that, like yourself.

Others can only hurl abuse. This is because they're cretinous yam-flavoured fannys :wink:

[Speedway]

I don’t know why Speedway wastes his time on these threads conversing with us losers
He should just count his losses and join the other glory hunters on a Saturday on the buses heading west to Darkheid
According to his financial graphs they appear to be the only club with enough financial clout to match his ambition.
Just a shame the biscuit tin mentality is alive and kicking
If he does decide to stick it out with the rest of us to wait and see what happens the next time we win a trophy he will be in the corner with his face tripping him complaining it is not enough.
That is what is so good about being a Hibby you never know what is around the corner but these are the good times just enjoy them.
I can understand Speedways point of view but appears to be a massive overreaction to one defeat. We are headed in the right direction and if does happen it won’t be overnight
What did James Connolly say ”We only want the earth “

Again, it's not a reaction to one result, it's a reaction to the latest example of not putting a team away that we ragdolled in terms of possession and the fans relaxed response to it because we won a cup once.

Now if the losers would just realise how thick they are and bow to the vast superiority of know-alls, we can make some progress.

[BILLYHIBS]

Again, it's not a reaction to one result, it's a reaction to the latest example of not putting a team away that we ragdolled in terms of possession and the fans relaxed response to it because we won a cup once.

Now if the losers would just realise how thick they are and bow to the vast superiority of know-alls, we can make some progress.
Sorry don’t remember being very relaxed on the night when one goal would have put them away. I remember thinking to myself that they were playing for penalties after about 60 mins
Your attitude without being funny reminds me of Derek MacInnes in the post match interview to him it was no surprise that his team won the shoot out as it was all part of the master plan whereas with Lenny it was simply a lottery
In the meantime I prefer to stick with the losers and thickos to see what happens 👍🏾😁⚽️🇳🇬🏆

[Speedway]

Sorry don’t remember being very relaxed on the night when one goal would have put them away. I remember thinking to myself that they were playing for penalties after about 60 mins
Your attitude without being funny reminds me of Derek MacInnes in the post match interview to him it was no surprise that his team won the shoot out as it was all part of the master plan whereas with Lenny it was simply a lottery
In the meantime I prefer to stick with the losers and thickos to see what happens 👍🏾😁⚽️🇳🇬🏆

And who went through to collect the money and stay with a chance of winning the cup Billy?

[BILLYHIBS]

And who went through to collect the money and stay with a chance of winning the cup Billy?

Aberdeen ain’t winning that cup!

[Smartie]

Again, it's not a reaction to one result, it's a reaction to the latest example of not putting a team away that we ragdolled in terms of possession and the fans relaxed response to it because we won a cup once.

Now if the losers would just realise how thick they are and bow to the vast superiority of know-alls, we can make some progress.

I agree with you that it would be wrong to think that our work as a club is done because we won the cup once. I mentioned either earlier in this thread or on the match day one that I was raging when we lost to Aberdeen at Hampden the year after we won the cup - the goals we lost that day were unforgivable and it genuinely felt to me like we took the fact that we were in a winnable Scottish cup semi final for granted.

I honestly didn't think that was the case last Tuesday. We played very well, our finishing was the only part of our game that let us down, and I'm not buying the mental strength thing at penalties - we narrowly lost a lottery.

Every team loses games, and you need to respond to defeats appropriately. Sometimes that means chucking the toys out the pram, dismantling your team and making wholesale changes (see the defeat to Hamilton in the playoffs). Sometimes you need to take it on the chin, dust yourselves down and keep doing the same things - and this is one of those occasions.

Given the players we lost over the summer and the amount of time we've had to bed new players in, we're in a good place. We've had excellent results and shutouts either side of the Aberdeen game, and Neil Lennon is totally aware that we need to improve in front of goal.

I admire your desire not to accept failure, but if you go too far that way it can be counter-productive.

It's early in the season and we're in a good place. Most of us have seen enough pish over the years that we can acknowledge that we are in a good place, and have no desire to derail our progress.

[matty_f]

There's two points there.

'Incremental growth' was the catchphrase of both Dougie Cromb and eaerly period Rod Petrie, before his 5 year plan and sporting success mantras took over.

Both were based on the aspiration of 'we want Hibs to be here for the next 100+ years'. Who would disagree there? But if that doesn't turn that into more silverware, more wealth and better football, why do we want there to be a Hibs in 125 years, we won't have seen much success and neither will the generations to follow.

Your sustainability point there Matty is the key for me. We've been here before-ish under Miller (cup win, Top 5 league finish, euro qualification) McLeish (Top 3 League finish and Europe) Mowbray (Top 4 League finish and Europe) and Yogi (Top 4 League finish and Europe) but it was never sustained.

IF it is now the case that we CAN sustain this level of competitive performance, then I agree, Europe is the way to fund growth.

Second point. The reaction to Aberdeen was not as a one off but rather as a continuation of a pattern of, as McInnes pointed out, the mentally stronger side holding their nerve and progressing. Now of course it could've gone either way, but it didn't, it went their way and when that happens regularly, you hand large financial advantage to competitors.

It is a fact that our major final record is worse than that of our rivals and I want to see that end by a mentally tougher Hibs putting teams away and us not 'looking for positives' when we fail to.

We can start by being more greedy and more hungry for success than we are.

What I object to, is the stated sense of relaxed outlook from fans who are happy with a cup win once a decade and the fact that things are generally OK.

I get that's good enough for some, but I don't think it should be.

Aberdeen weren't mentally stronger, it wasn't mental strength that made Agyepong miss his penalty - he was less than an inch away from scoring. Up until that point, the mentally stronger Aberdeen team had had the same number of penalties saved as we had. I would be amazed if McInnes had said we were mentally stronger had the penalties gone the other way.

As for the incremental growth, I would say that there is clear evidence of it - we sign a better standard of player than we had done in the post-Bosman, post-TV deal collapse era, we have a better standard of manager, the stadium has been built over a number of years (incrementally...) and gives us a sustainably increased income. The training centre has been built and improved, and is in line to be improved again.

Additionally, post-2010 we've reached a great number of semi finals and finals, and while we've only won the Scottish Cup once in that time, relative to our size I'd say that was good going.

That's not to ignore the relegation, which we can't hide from - that should never have happened and the path to that point was started by poor high-level management of the football club from Petrie, along with poor management from Butcher.

Since Dempster has come in, though, I think there are numerous signs of growth which, because they've happened by design and not by accident (i.e. we haven't got lucky on a manager being able to make a silk purse from a sow's ear) makes me believe that they're sustainable.

We lost three of our best players in the summer window, and despite that we're sitting second in the league on more points than the same stage as last season. There's a long way to go but with a number of posters (including myself) of the opinion that we're still to properly click into gear, then again the signs point towards sustained improvement.

With that in mind, I think we will enter a period before long where we increase our cup tally, though we should remember that every season there are at least two teams who have a massive advantage over us financially, and as a result on the field, and so expecting us to win trophies frequently in that context is unrealistic (at this moment in time), IMHO.

[matty_f]

I agree with you that it would be wrong to think that our work as a club is done because we won the cup once. I mentioned either earlier in this thread or on the match day one that I was raging when we lost to Aberdeen at Hampden the year after we won the cup - the goals we lost that day were unforgivable and it genuinely felt to me like we took the fact that we were in a winnable Scottish cup semi final for granted.

I honestly didn't think that was the case last Tuesday. We played very well, our finishing was the only part of our game that let us down, and I'm not buying the mental strength thing at penalties - we narrowly lost a lottery.

Every team loses games, and you need to respond to defeats appropriately. Sometimes that means chucking the toys out the pram, dismantling your team and making wholesale changes (see the defeat to Hamilton in the playoffs). Sometimes you need to take it on the chin, dust yourselves down and keep doing the same things - and this is one of those occasions.

Given the players we lost over the summer and the amount of time we've had to bed new players in, we're in a good place. We've had excellent results and shutouts either side of the Aberdeen game, and Neil Lennon is totally aware that we need to improve in front of goal.

I admire your desire not to accept failure, but if you go too far that way it can be counter-productive.

It's early in the season and we're in a good place. Most of us have seen enough pish over the years that we can acknowledge that we are in a good place, and have no desire to derail our progress.

It's also worth remembering that Aberdeen were in the division above us, and were the second best team in the country, the season they beat us at Hampden, and they were lucky to beat us with a deflected goal.

Our team of underachievers had skelped them out of the League Cup the season before, when again Aberdeen were comfortably second best in the league (in fact, I think when we played them they had just had 8 or 9 straight victories).

[Barman Stanton]

This thread is like reading Grumpy Gibby in the old Hibs monthlies. Although back then at least there was plenty to genuinely moan about.

[BILLYHIBS]

This thread is like reading Grumpy Gibby in the old Hibs monthlies. Although back then at least there was plenty to genuinely moan about.
At least you got a laugh wi Grumpy Gibby the North Stand Hibby and no way did he expect us to win all the trophies forever and a day He widnae STAND fer it! :greengrin

[Speedway]

Aberdeen ain’t winning that cup!

That's not what I asked, Billy.


I agree with you that it would be wrong to think that our work as a club is done because we won the cup once. I mentioned either earlier in this thread or on the match day one that I was raging when we lost to Aberdeen at Hampden the year after we won the cup - the goals we lost that day were unforgivable and it genuinely felt to me like we took the fact that we were in a winnable Scottish cup semi final for granted.

I honestly didn't think that was the case last Tuesday. We played very well, our finishing was the only part of our game that let us down, and I'm not buying the mental strength thing at penalties - we narrowly lost a lottery.

Every team loses games, and you need to respond to defeats appropriately. Sometimes that means chucking the toys out the pram, dismantling your team and making wholesale changes (see the defeat to Hamilton in the playoffs). Sometimes you need to take it on the chin, dust yourselves down and keep doing the same things - and this is one of those occasions.

Given the players we lost over the summer and the amount of time we've had to bed new players in, we're in a good place. We've had excellent results and shutouts either side of the Aberdeen game, and Neil Lennon is totally aware that we need to improve in front of goal.

I admire your desire not to accept failure, but if you go too far that way it can be counter-productive.

It's early in the season and we're in a good place. Most of us have seen enough pish over the years that we can acknowledge that we are in a good place, and have no desire to derail our progress.

Fair play Smartie. No issue with that position.