New euro comp

[Ozyhibby]

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[lord bunberry]

I heard something about this a while ago, but I’d forgotten about it. I think it was Lawell from Celtic that was talking about it. I’ll wait and see the details, but I quite like the idea.

[danhibees1875]

Only a matter of time before such a thing came about IMO.

Will just be an enlarged, stand alone, Intertoto Cup basically - unless they have something more imaginitive planned.

The only downside I could see is a lack of interest from TV companies and a pool of medium to small clubs meaning that it ends up being a loss making exercise for clubs involved. Hopefully not the case though!

[HappyAsHellas]

Will this be a forerunner for the Atlantic league idea?

[Mango Man]

I loved the old set up, Cup winners in the Cup Winners cup, champions in the European Cup, and 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Uefa Cup, they all really meant something, there is now teams that don't even really want to be in the Europa League.

[Ozyhibby]

Will this be a forerunner for the Atlantic league idea?

I think Euro comps are going to be way more important in future. For the very top clubs to get their breakaway leagues they need somewhere for the next tier of clubs to play.


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[SirDavidsNapper]

What was wrong with the Champions League/European Cup, Uefa Cup and Cup Winners Cup? It's like they change it when they get bored.

[Hibrandenburg]

What was wrong with the Champions League/European Cup, Uefa Cup and Cup Winners Cup? It's like they change it when they get bored.

There's much more money to be made if you let the also rans from the top leagues into the competitions instead of just the champions of individual countries. However imo it has rendered these competitions practically unattainable and meaningless for countries like Scotland, Belgium, Denmark and all other countries that have to go through qualifying rounds to reach the REAL competition. Champions League etc hold no interest for me nowadays.

[Diclonius]

Excellent - really looking forward to this, and hopefully a tournament where we have a chance of progressing too.

[Ryan69]

Dont understand why they dont actually have a Champions League....with only Champions in it.
Then have Cup Winners cup.
Then Europa Cup.

Like it used tobe.

As nowadays theres too many non champions getting byes in the Champions League that have not been champions in decades.
Just makes the name of it a farce really

[davhibby]

I loved the old set up, Cup winners in the Cup Winners cup, champions in the European Cup, and 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Uefa Cup, they all really meant something, there is now teams that don't even really want to be in the Europa League.

The only country where teams don't want to be in it is England. Teams from all the other big nations take the Europa seriously. English fans/pundits are so lost in the whole best league in the world bubble they think nothing else matters

[danhibees1875]

Dont understand why they dont actually have a Champions League....with only Champions in it.
Then have Cup Winners cup.
Then Europa Cup.

Like it used tobe.

As nowadays theres too many non champions getting byes in the Champions League that have not been champions in decades.
Just makes the name of it a farce really

I think there are too many big teams concentrated in a few of the bigger countries to have that work. Allowing for similar levels of European teams per country, you would have something like (only looking at 3 main leagues):

Champions League - Man City, Barcelona, Juventus,
Cup Winners Cup - Chelsea, Sevilla (assuming runners up qualify), AC Milan
Europa - Man U, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Atl MAdrid, Real Madrid, Valencia, Napoli, Roma, Inter Milan, Lazio


The third tier tournament would have the most attraction there.

Unless we're talking about just having 3 teams in Europe per country, and ignoring rankings system to allow for more successful countries having more teams; but that would be quite the radical shake-up.

[jacomo]

I loved the old set up, Cup winners in the Cup Winners cup, champions in the European Cup, and 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Uefa Cup, they all really meant something, there is now teams that don't even really want to be in the Europa League.


:agree:

[Hibbyradge]

Dont understand why they dont actually have a Champions League....with only Champions in it.
Then have Cup Winners cup.
Then Europa Cup.

Like it used tobe.

As nowadays theres too many non champions getting byes in the Champions League that have not been champions in decades.
Just makes the name of it a farce really

It's just a name.

Call it the best teams league in your head, if you struggle with a pedantry problem. 😁

The Cup Winners Cup didn't always have cup winners playing in it. Runners up were a large proportion of that tournament.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's just a name.

Call it the best teams league in your head, if you struggle with a pedantry problem. ��

The Cup Winners Cup didn't always have cup winners playing in it. Runners up were a large proportion of that tournament.

I still have an issue with the Fairs Cup. There were teams in that competition that had never been near a Codona's.

[Hibbyradge]

I still have an issue with the Fairs Cup. There were teams in that competition that had never been near a Codona's.

:agree:

And there were players with dark hair.

[ScottB]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/11/uefa-third-european-competition-2021

The Europa League will be reduced to 32 teams, with the new tournament also being 32.

My suspicion is, that this will move the EL into line with the Champions League ambition; as many big clubs in European competition, playing other big clubs as possible. Lower ranked teams will find themselves in this new Cup, alongside clubs who get knocked out of Europa League qualifying. Hell, maybe even clubs getting knocked out of the Champions League could cascade down through the Europa League into this new one.

I'd hazard a guess that our league would end up with one CL, one EL then all our other European places would be into this new one, which presumably will have even lower TV / prize money. Basically a 'hey, you still have European football!' excuse to exclude the less profitable sides / nations from gatecrashing the top table.

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/11/uefa-third-european-competition-2021

The Europa League will be reduced to 32 teams, with the new tournament also being 32.

My suspicion is, that this will move the EL into line with the Champions League ambition; as many big clubs in European competition, playing other big clubs as possible. Lower ranked teams will find themselves in this new Cup, alongside clubs who get knocked out of Europa League qualifying. Hell, maybe even clubs getting knocked out of the Champions League could cascade down through the Europa League into this new one.

I'd hazard a guess that our league would end up with one CL, one EL then all our other European places would be into this new one, which presumably will have even lower TV / prize money. Basically a 'hey, you still have European football!' excuse to exclude the less profitable sides / nations from gatecrashing the top table.

Most lower place teams get knocked out in the early stages of the Europa League anyway, and they have literally, no chance of winning it.

The new tournament will offer a better chance of progression. More games against different opponents can only benefit players.

As for prize money and TV exposure, we'll have to wait and see, but there's a chance that these games will be played on Friday nights which means TV might be more interested and it would be good for the fans as they'd lose less holidays.

I welcome the plan, as I currently understand it.

[CropleyWasGod]

:agree:

And there were players with dark hair.

I can (just) remember the days when there was only 1 team allowed in from each city. IIRC, one year Clyde finished 3rd in the league behind Celtic (who qualified for the European Cup) and Rangers (Fairs Cup). It must have been the year Aberdeen won the cup. 67?

Anyhoo, because of this bizarre rule, Clyde weren't allowed to enter. It may have been us who benefitted.

Going further back, it was originally designed for "cities" (not teams) who had held a fair.... hence the name. IIRC, one year London entered a combined team. Burntisland weren't allowed, as they're not a city.

[Speedway]

Dont understand why they dont actually have a Champions League....with only Champions in it.
Then have Cup Winners cup.
Then Europa Cup.

Like it used tobe.

As nowadays theres too many non champions getting byes in the Champions League that have not been champions in decades.
Just makes the name of it a farce really

Money.

[TAHibby]

I loved the old set up, Cup winners in the Cup Winners cup, champions in the European Cup, and 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Uefa Cup, they all really meant something, there is now teams that don't even really want to be in the Europa League.

What do you mean? Teams have to rest players during their Europa league fixtures so they can concentrate on the league which allows them to qualify for next year's Europa league

[SChibs]

A regional cup would be good with north, south, east, west sections. Then winners from each section played a 2 legged semi final then a final. No need for groups just go straight to a last 32 for each section

[patlowe]

I wonder if there is scope for a Nations League like system that can run alongside the two major European competitions, ie promotion/relegation between groups with additional incentives around qualification for the bigger tournaments? The traditional qualification/tournament systems could remain in place (as with the Euros and World Cup internationally) but the 'Club League' system would supplement the process and allow for 'smaller' clubs to access European football with additional opportunities for major tournament qualification.

[Mango Man]

What do you mean? Teams have to rest players during their Europa league fixtures so they can concentrate on the league which allows them to qualify for next year's Europa league

:greengrin

[Geo_1875]

I can (just) remember the days when there was only 1 team allowed in from each city. IIRC, one year Clyde finished 3rd in the league behind Celtic (who qualified for the European Cup) and Rangers (Fairs Cup). It must have been the year Aberdeen won the cup. 67?

Anyhoo, because of this bizarre rule, Clyde weren't allowed to enter. It may have been us who benefitted.

Going further back, it was originally designed for "cities" (not teams) who had held a fair.... hence the name. IIRC, one year London entered a combined team. Burntisland weren't allowed, as they're not a city.

Trade Fairs NOT Fun Fairs.

Was designed to encourage trade across post-war Europe.

[Phil MaGlass]

Lovely, look forward to this, a couple of regular(hopefully) jaunts to Europe

[Golden Bear]

If it results in losing yet more Saturday afternoon 3pm kick offs then they can stick it.

:grr:

[Hibbyradge]

If it results in losing yet more Saturday afternoon 3pm kick offs then they can stick it.

:grr:

:agree:

Drunken jaunts to foreign towns and cities are all very well, but they're not worth missing a couple of hours in Leith every Saturday afternoon.

I'm going to email Neil Lennon and tell him to make sure we don't qualify for it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Trade Fairs NOT Fun Fairs.

Was designed to encourage trade across post-war Europe.I did ken that [emoji38]

Otherwise Blackpool would have been in it every year.......


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[shetlandhibee]

Dont understand why they dont actually have a Champions League....with only Champions in it.
Then have Cup Winners cup.
Then Europa Cup.

Like it used tobe.

As nowadays theres too many non champions getting byes in the Champions League that have not been champions in decades.
Just makes the name of it a farce really
totally agree with you but its all about £money now and will never be changed back:agree:

[twiceinathens]

I fear it's only a matter of time before the biggest teams from each of the "major" football leagues in Europe break away to form a televised sponsored league competition. Gate money for the big clubs is only a minor earner for them The current European cup competitions and individual leagues and national trophies will then become irrelevant. It's all about the money.

[RoscoHibby]

I wonder what the general feeling around europe is to the champs league. Anyone i speak to or even read on here, apathy towards it is really creeping in, it definitely is with me.

Like previously posted, the old format would be good i reckon. Champions league gets more presitge from it actually being the champions. Bring back the UEFA cup,just one big knock out tourney with some amazing teams in it. Would get way more interest in it than current europa league. Then the cup winners cup, you could have bala town vs AC Milan for example...mental, but also a beautiful thing and for me what football is meant to be about, shot at glory, Roy of the Rovers stuff and all that..

Newer isnt always better.

[Iggy Pope]

I can (just) remember the days when there was only 1 team allowed in from each city. IIRC, one year Clyde finished 3rd in the league behind Celtic (who qualified for the European Cup) and Rangers (Fairs Cup). It must have been the year Aberdeen won the cup. 67?

Anyhoo, because of this bizarre rule, Clyde weren't allowed to enter. It may have been us who benefitted.

Going further back, it was originally designed for "cities" (not teams) who had held a fair.... hence the name. IIRC, one year London entered a combined team. Burntisland weren't allowed, as they're not a city.

More likely Dunfermlines cup wins, maybe 68 when they battered Hertz? Interesting though, Clyde in Europe. Morton made the Fairs Cup in the 60s too though, played Chelsea I think and Greenock is a good 30 miles west of the nearest city.

[CropleyWasGod]

More likely Dunfermlines cup wins, maybe 68 when they battered Hertz? Interesting though, Clyde in Europe. Morton made the Fairs Cup in the 60s too though, played Chelsea I think and Greenock is a good 30 miles west of the nearest city.

Just checked this.

Clyde were 3rd in the league in 67. Celtic won everything. Aberdeen went into the CWC as beaten finalists. Rangers the Fairs Cup as runners up in the league.

Clyde argued that they were from Rutherglen, not Glasgow. UEFA told them to beat it as they competed in the Glasgow Cup. It looks as if Hibs benefited from that,... presumably, we got Clyde's place. That was the season we beat Napoli.

Morton were in the Fairs Cup in 68.



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[ScottB]

Another thing, Tuesday and Wednesday are Champions League nights, Thursday is Europa League, where will this new one fit in? Monday or Friday? Either way is going to be a challenge to domestic schedules, as playing the weekend would be out completely.

The EL is already a big prize / TV money drop from the CL, if this new one was even a noticeable drop from the EL, combined with having to move however many weekend domestic kick offs for the duration of involvement, it may not end up being all that profitable an endeavour for a club like Hibs...

[Hulk1875]

I loved being involved in qualifiers and thought it wound help be sharper for the start of the season. It’s actually hampered us through injuries. And not let us settle

[SJNB Hibby]

I can (just) remember the days when there was only 1 team allowed in from each city. IIRC, one year Clyde finished 3rd in the league behind Celtic (who qualified for the European Cup) and Rangers (Fairs Cup). It must have been the year Aberdeen won the cup. 67?

Anyhoo, because of this bizarre rule, Clyde weren't allowed to enter. It may have been us who benefitted.

Going further back, it was originally designed for "cities" (not teams) who had held a fair.... hence the name. IIRC, one year London entered a combined team. Burntisland weren't allowed, as they're not a city.

When Newcastle won it in the 60's they had finished 10th in the league
But all the teams above them were from London etc

[Iggy Pope]

Just checked this.

Clyde were 3rd in the league in 67. Celtic won everything. Aberdeen went into the CWC as beaten finalists. Rangers the Fairs Cup as runners up in the league.

Clyde argued that they were from Rutherglen, not Glasgow. UEFA told them to beat it as they competed in the Glasgow Cup. It looks as if Hibs benefited from that,... presumably, we got Clyde's place. That was the season we beat Napoli.

Morton were in the Fairs Cup in 68.



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It was our old pals Dundee that benefitted though, after finishing 1967 below us in the league and enjoying a campaign that endid getting emptied in the semi by Leeds who had already beaten us and the Huns.
And in 68 we had four clubs in the Fairs, Hibs, Morton (6th) Rangers and Aberdeen. Heady times.

[CropleyWasGod]

It was our old pals Dundee that benefitted though, after finishing 1967 below us in the league and enjoying a campaign that endid getting emptied in the semi by Leeds who had already beaten us and the Huns.
And in 68 we had four clubs in the Fairs, Hibs, Morton (6th) Rangers and Aberdeen. Heady times.

Cool. :aok:

I do remember that Leeds tour of Scotland. Hadn't realised it was that year.

This one will test you. There was one season... possibly 66... where either Dunfermline or Hearts went to a 3rd game against Zaragoza. As it turned out, Zaragoza won... But, if the result had gone the other way, Hearts and Dunfermline would have met in the next round.

[The Spaceman]

All for this as long as it doesn't dilute Scottish teams in the Champions League and Europa League i.e. it is a competition extended to teams finishing in 4th and 5th place in the league.

Will mean more revenue for our teams, more European away days and something new for teams like Hibs.

The gap between the richest leagues and Scotland is so massive now that our teams will never win the two current competitions again, but still important we are at least involved for the profile of our game.

[danhibees1875]

All for this as long as it doesn't dilute Scottish teams in the Champions League and Europa League i.e. it is a competition extended to teams finishing in 4th and 5th place in the league.

Will mean more revenue for our teams, more European away days and something new for teams like Hibs.

The gap between the richest leagues and Scotland is so massive now that our teams will never win the two current competitions again, but still important we are at least involved for the profile of our game.

If they're scaling down the Europa then it's probably bad news for Hibs getting there. Probably end up with Celtic in the champions league, rangers in Europa, and then 2 teams in Euro3. Hopefully the tournament is received well and has decent prize money to make it worthwhile. The flip side being that we should be more likely to progress further in this one if we get there.

[Pagan Hibernia]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/11/uefa-third-european-competition-2021

The Europa League will be reduced to 32 teams, with the new tournament also being 32.

My suspicion is, that this will move the EL into line with the Champions League ambition; as many big clubs in European competition, playing other big clubs as possible. Lower ranked teams will find themselves in this new Cup, alongside clubs who get knocked out of Europa League qualifying. Hell, maybe even clubs getting knocked out of the Champions League could cascade down through the Europa League into this new one.

I'd hazard a guess that our league would end up with one CL, one EL then all our other European places would be into this new one, which presumably will have even lower TV / prize money. Basically a 'hey, you still have European football!' excuse to exclude the less profitable sides / nations from gatecrashing the top table.

This would be my suspicion too. Basically a way of consolidating and perpetuating the power and wealth of the big clubs and getting the wee teams permanently out of the way. Hope I’m wrong.

[SMAXXA]

Where there is cash there is demand

[Iggy Pope]

Cool. :aok:

I do remember that Leeds tour of Scotland. Hadn't realised it was that year.

This one will test you. There was one season... possibly 66... where either Dunfermline or Hearts went to a 3rd game against Zaragoza. As it turned out, Zaragoza won... But, if the result had gone the other way, Hearts and Dunfermline would have met in the next round.

Nae idea! I'll look it up though as I'm looking to start collecting Scottish Club programmes in Europe from the 60s and very rewarding it is too.

Edit. 65/66 Zaragoza beat Hearts and then Dunfermline next round. Hibs appear to have been in the same tournament, same season, losing to Valencia. Curious that. And we played a round earlier than either of those two.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nae idea! I'll look it up though as I'm looking to start collecting Scottish Club programmes in Europe from the 60s and very rewarding it is too.

Edit. 65/66 Zaragoza beat Hearts and then Dunfermline next round. Hibs appear to have been in the same tournament, same season, losing to Valencia. Curious that. And we played a round earlier than either of those two.My Uncle had the Valencia programme on his bedroom wall. No idea if it's still about.

Do you have it? [emoji16]

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[Iggy Pope]

My Uncle had the Valencia programme on his bedroom wall. No idea if it's still about.

Do you have it? [emoji16]

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I do. My Hibs euro homes are complete with the exception of the Barcelona postponed issue....

[CropleyWasGod]

I do. My Hibs euro homes are complete with the exception of the Barcelona postponed issue....So you stole it from him??? You got his Real Madrid one as well? [emoji2955]

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[Iggy Pope]

So you stole it from him??? You got his Real Madrid one as well? [emoji2955]

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Got a spare of that if he wants it back.