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Speedway
01-09-2018, 07:35 PM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

Fergos
01-09-2018, 07:39 PM
Yes - an a major factor as to why we crumbled after they equalised.

500miles
01-09-2018, 07:40 PM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

Part of it. But we have to realise that Mallan cannot run. He's either unfit, or just slow. He's a number 10,not someone who we can rely on for dig.

matty_f
01-09-2018, 07:48 PM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

The sarcastic part of me wants to reply and say that it's not an explanation and that the lack of leadership etc was because of a crap transfer window, the board, and not signing Scott Allan.

But because I'm not in a sarcastic mood, I'll go with my considered post instead, and say yes, I think that played a significant part in it. I also don't think all the players are at full match fitness yet. Most are, but some are evidently a bit behind in that respect.

Stevie Reid
01-09-2018, 08:12 PM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

Agree, made the point about us missing a whole spine in the match day thread. The personnel involved are big characters, as well as huge physical presences.

BullsCloseHibs
01-09-2018, 09:36 PM
Spine is what Hearts and Huns live off.
We don't. And never have.

Heisenberg
01-09-2018, 09:40 PM
Part of it. But we have to realise that Mallan cannot run. He's either unfit, or just slow. He's a number 10,not someone who we can rely on for dig.

Very much this. Change the system and play our wingers as wingers. Our best attacking midfielder as an attacking midfielder. Quite easy this management stuff :greengrin

Smartie
01-09-2018, 11:26 PM
Spine is what Hearts and Huns live off.
We don't. And never have.

We did from shortly after Alan Stubbs arrived until this summer.

Our current spine (if indeed we have one) is on the treatment table and waiting for a visa.

Viva_Palmeiras
02-09-2018, 06:33 AM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

Leaders across the park right there - except when they are all injured or oot ;)

We have come a long way since having arguably just one ďleaderĒ in the team - McPake.

J-C
02-09-2018, 06:43 AM
The sarcastic part of me wants to reply and say that it's not an explanation and that the lack of leadership etc was because of a crap transfer window, the board, and not signing Scott Allan.

But because I'm not in a sarcastic mood, I'll go with my considered post instead, and say yes, I think that played a significant part in it. I also don't think all the players are at full match fitness yet. Most are, but some are evidently a bit behind in that respect.

If they're a bit behind Matty, why then have they not featured in any reserve games to get them up to speed, surely that's the point of the reserve league.

GreenCastle
02-09-2018, 08:06 AM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

Itís an issue and wonít be fixed anytime soon sadly due to the injuries.

Kamberi was risked though Europe and we are suffering without him now.

We do need others to step up and agree Mallan isnít a box to box player - let him roam in 10 and you will get the best out of him.

Our midfield was never going to be replaced after last season but the balance isnít right just now.

eastmainsmsh
02-09-2018, 08:38 AM
We need a Matty Jack player

Diclonius
02-09-2018, 08:41 AM
Our injured players are:

Marciano
McGregor
Bartley
Kamberi

And our captain.

We wait for an international captain to arrive.

Does this explain our lack of leadership, fight and physicality today?

We knew half these players were injured weeks ago and we still went for the "cautious" approach in the window.

ancient hibee
02-09-2018, 09:54 AM
Hanlon and Stevenson have both looked out of sorts so far and lacking their usual dig and of course missing McGinn in front of them.

Speedway
02-09-2018, 01:00 PM
We knew half these players were injured weeks ago and we still went for the "cautious" approach in the window.

What was th cautious approach we went for?

Smartie
02-09-2018, 01:21 PM
Hanlon and Stevenson have both looked out of sorts so far and lacking their usual dig and of course missing McGinn in front of them.

Stick Kamberi and a midfielder who can defend in there and you'll see a lot more from Hanlon, Stevenson and a few more.

Speedway
02-09-2018, 01:31 PM
So the equation for our turnaround is Spine plus realising that:

Mallan is Allan
Milligan is McGeough
Horgan is McGinn and
Ageypong is Barker

Which gives us last years side back if we play:

Marciano

Ambrose McGregor Hanlon

Milligan

Boyle Mallan Horgan Stevenson

MacLaren Kamberi

Hiber-nation
02-09-2018, 01:34 PM
Hanlon and Stevenson have both looked out of sorts so far and lacking their usual dig and of course missing McGinn in front of them.

Aye Lewis looks a bit lost without McGinn to link with. Some of these lads in midfield will need to learn quickly that they need to be demanding the ball far more than they've been used to.

SingaporeHibs
02-09-2018, 03:45 PM
So the equation for our turnaround is Spine plus realising that:

Mallan is Allan
Milligan is McGeough
Horgan is McGinn and
Ageypong is Barker

Which gives us last years side back if we play:

Marciano

Ambrose McGregor Hanlon

Milligan

Boyle Mallan Horgan Stevenson

MacLaren Kamberi

Yes. Potentially at least. Iím a big believer in playing the players in their strongest positions to get the most out of them. It may mean Lennon changing his favoured formation (as above). Still a bit early to tell what it might look like. Quicker everyone is available the better.

SingaporeHibs
02-09-2018, 04:06 PM
Aye Lewis looks a bit lost without McGinn to link with. Some of these lads in midfield will need to learn quickly that they need to be demanding the ball far more than they've been used to.

Noticed the same. Particularly in Horgans first couple of games you could see Horgans natural movement was into the area that Stevenson has been used to going when we have the ball moving forward. At times both making similar moves, then checking their runs and actually no one goes as fluently as they should. The Ball then ends up being moved elsewhere. Itís all part of them getting to know each otherís games and learning. Youíre right, they need to learn fast.
As for Hanlon, he has improved his game a lot through the last 3 or 4 Seasons. We see the best of him when he has solid players next to him. He is now having to cope with Porteous coming into the side (iím Not blaming him as he has done very well) who needs helped through the matches and Efe who is perhaps a bit random to be the type of solid player Hanlon needs next to him. Iíve read all sorts about McGregors injury issues but I just hope he gets back and can have another full season. We really miss him at the back. The changes in keeper also havenít helped.
Itís all work in progress and this 2 week break in games couldnít have come at a better time.

Speedway
05-09-2018, 08:04 AM
Daz, Milligan and Flo all expected to be available for the Killie match.

Just Bartley and Rocky remaining to reinstall the spine.

500miles
05-09-2018, 09:11 AM
We will send up playing 451 quite a bit this season, with Mallan getting a free role. Particularly away from home. We've got the goals from midfield and a stack of pace to do it.

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 09:25 AM
We will send up playing 451 quite a bit this season, with Mallan getting a free role. Particularly away from home. We've got the goals from midfield and a stack of pace to do it.

I don't think so. I reckon Flo & Maclaren will start regularly.

J-C
05-09-2018, 09:40 AM
I don't think so. I reckon Flo & Maclaren will start regularly.


Only problem with that is we'll get overran in midfield, Milligan should give us the steel we need but Mallan is powderpuff at times and Horgan is a better winger than central midfielder. We have numerous attacking midfielders to try and fit into the 2 spaces we have in midfield Slivka, Hyndman, Mallan, F Murray, then we have Boyle, Agyepong and Horgan to find space for. 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 seem a better option for the squad we have. Lennon did say in his last interview that he takes the blame for the last defeat and maybe has to review his tactics a bit.

jeffers
05-09-2018, 10:10 AM
Only problem with that is we'll get overran in midfield, Milligan should give us the steel we need but Mallan is powderpuff at times and Horgan is a better winger than central midfielder. We have numerous attacking midfielders to try and fit into the 2 spaces we have in midfield Slivka, Hyndman, Mallan, F Murray, then we have Boyle, Agyepong and Horgan to find space for. 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 seem a better option for the squad we have. Lennon did say in his last interview that he takes the blame for the last defeat and maybe has to review his tactics a bit.

I think it goes back to the point that has been made more than once, the squad is lacking in balance. It's almost as if we've went out and signed players without an idea how we fit them all in the team. Play with two wingers and you need two strong midfielders in the central position. Play McLaren, you need to have Kamberi there (and decent service into the box) to get the best out of him. Mallan looks to me like he needs to play further up the park to get the best out of him, almost playing off a main striker, which then means McLaren doesn't play and given that both were marquee signings this summer you'd have thought they were signed as first choices. That doesn't even include Hyndman, who I have no idea where he fits in. I accept a squad needs cover, but the guys I've mentioned don't strike me as signings who were made just to provide cover.

Smartie
05-09-2018, 10:15 AM
I think it goes back to the point that has been made more than once, the squad is lacking in balance. It's almost as if we've went out and signed players without an idea how we fit them all in the team. Play with two wingers and you need two strong midfielders in the central position. Play McLaren, you need to have Kamberi there (and decent service into the box) to get the best out of him. Mallan looks to me like he needs to play further up the park to get the best out of him, almost playing off a main striker, which then means McLaren doesn't play and given that both were marquee signings this summer you'd have thought they were signed as first choices. That doesn't even include Hyndman, who I have no idea where he fits in. I accept a squad needs cover, but the guys I've mentioned don't strike me as signings who were made just to provide cover.

That's exactly how I see it. It's almost as if they were players we considered too good to miss out on, or we signed them to prevent someone else getting them rather than actually thinking about how they were going to fit into the way we play.

I can't see us setting up a cohesive team unit without dropping at least 2 of our main players at a time.

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 10:16 AM
I saw this on Twitter the other day. Looks pretty well balanced to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmGgePGWwAEsWVN.jpg

jeffers
05-09-2018, 10:22 AM
That's exactly how I see it. It's almost as if they were players we considered too good to miss out on, or we signed them to prevent someone else getting them rather than actually thinking about how they were going to fit into the way we play.

I can't see us setting up a cohesive team unit without dropping at least 2 of our main players at a time.

We might (and I hope we are) pleasantly surprised with a formation that allows us to accomodate these players, but it's certainly a challenge for NL. Given that his preference was 3 at the back I was a bit surprised to hear him say he may have to change that due to the players we have in the squad. I'd have thought if you had a preferred formation you signed players to fit into that.

MWHIBBIES
05-09-2018, 10:23 AM
I saw this on Twitter the other day. Looks pretty well balanced to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmGgePGWwAEsWVN.jpg

Takes away our best passing central defender and has no one in midfield to get it from defence and move it around. That team just ends up hoofing it.

Smartie
05-09-2018, 10:23 AM
I saw this on Twitter the other day. Looks pretty well balanced to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmGgePGWwAEsWVN.jpg

It's pretty good tbh.

Solves the dilemma of getting Gray and Boyle into the team, but is Gray really an effective RCB?

There isn't a great deal of height throughout the team and it might be picked off at set pieces.

Can Agyepong play WB? Is his defending / Lewis' attacking good enough to play with a WB (tbf I'd say yes). Is the CM mobile enough? Can they track back enough?

Bartley plus 3x CB's doesn't always work.

No starting spot for Efe or Hyndman?

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 10:24 AM
We might (and I hope we are) pleasantly surprised with a formation that allows us to accomodate these players, but it's certainly a challenge for NL. Given that his preference was 3 at the back I was a bit surprised to hear him say he may have to change that due to the players we have in the squad. I'd have thought if you had a preferred formation you signed players to fit into that.

Could it not be in relation to the players available/fit (I'm thinking of Bartley & Milligan)?

J-C
05-09-2018, 10:28 AM
That's exactly how I see it. It's almost as if they were players we considered too good to miss out on, or we signed them to prevent someone else getting them rather than actually thinking about how they were going to fit into the way we play.

I can't see us setting up a cohesive team unit without dropping at least 2 of our main players at a time.


I agree, it looks like Lennon and Co. have snapped up these players because they were too good to turn down. We lost the whole midfield, Milligan could be seen as Dylan's replacement as he sits deeper, Mallan as Allan's and seemingly Slivka was meant to be McGinn's ( not so far anyway ). Horgan came as an attacking left winger who can play with both feet, Agyepong similar can play either side, so in essence we have 3 wingers but we play with wingbacks?

To play 2 up top we either go 3 at the back or play 4-4-2.

B.H.F.C
05-09-2018, 10:29 AM
I don't think so. I reckon Flo & Maclaren will start regularly.

MacLaren might not based on performances so far, including getting the hook ahead of Lewis Allan on Saturday.

Last season the 352 suited us perfectly. Iím not sure it does this year but itís also the only formation that really accommodate two out and out strikers for us IMO.

Smartie
05-09-2018, 10:30 AM
Takes away our best passing central defender and has no one in midfield to get it from defence and move it around. That team just ends up hoofing it.

To be fair, we don't know much about Milligan yet. He may be just the player to make it work.

I remember Kevin McBride being handy at that role, and he didn't arrive with anything like the pedigree of Milligan (although you could stop Hibs playing a bit too easily by taking McBride out of the game).

jeffers
05-09-2018, 10:32 AM
Takes away our best passing central defender and has no one in midfield to get it from defence and move it around. That team just ends up hoofing it.

I would play Ambrose, but I think it's moot point anyway as he seems to be a first pick for NL regardless of our formation.

I think Milligan is expected to be the guy who takes it from the defence, as well as being the guy who breaks up attacks - he certainly needs to be some player. I was never the huge McGeouch fan most Hibs fans were, but Saturday was the first game since he's left that I thought we were crying out for him. I can't remember us going long from the defence so many times, especially in the 2nd half.

J-C
05-09-2018, 10:36 AM
We might (and I hope we are) pleasantly surprised with a formation that allows us to accomodate these players, but it's certainly a challenge for NL. Given that his preference was 3 at the back I was a bit surprised to hear him say he may have to change that due to the players we have in the squad. I'd have thought if you had a preferred formation you signed players to fit into that.

Surprised he never got cover for Lewis at left wingback, unless Mackie is seen as cover and another CH seeing McGregor's struggling nowadays to be fit. He sees Boyle as cover for Gray but that then takes away Boyles attacking threat when he has to cover in defence. We didn't need Hyndman, another hard working CM was needed, so much so that he's playing Horgan central instead of his natural wide left because he puts a shift in and is also fairly talented.

jeffers
05-09-2018, 10:37 AM
Could it not be in relation to the players available/fit (I'm thinking of Bartley & Milligan)?

Possibly, but Milligan should be available for our next game.

jeffers
05-09-2018, 10:48 AM
Surprised he never got cover for Lewis at left wingback, unless Mackie is seen as cover and another CH seeing McGregor's struggling nowadays to be fit. He sees Boyle as cover for Gray but that then takes away Boyles attacking threat when he has to cover in defence. We didn't need Hyndman, another hard working CM was needed, so much so that he's playing Horgan central instead of his natural wide left because he puts a shift in and is also fairly talented.

I thought Mackie was indeed cover, though was surprised to hear NL say he wanted to give Lewis a rest against Ross County but wasn't able to. I suppose with Lewis (and I hope I'm not jinxing him) he rarely gets injured or suspended so chances are you will rarely need cover for him.

I totally agree with your other points. Horgan has already become a first pick for me but as a winger. However Boyle would be for me too and again as a winger. I'd be inclined to go back four with the two I've mentioned out wide, Milligan and Bartley (or maybe Slivka if he could improve his work rate and all round contribution) through the middle and Flo and Jamie up top. Agyepong, Mallan and Hyndman options from the bench.

SirDavidsNapper
05-09-2018, 11:25 AM
With the players out i'm not surprised we've struggled..

Marciano - Has his flaws but his back four know him. Continuity is huge especially in goals.
McGregor - The glue that holds it all together at the back (including Ambrose). An absolute rock.
Gray - His influence on the team is huge.
Bartley - Another who has been there and done it with Hibs. Big presence in the middle and key to breaking up pay.
Milligan - An unknown but World Cup veteran. I expect him to have a calming influence in the middle of the park.
Kamberi - We all know what this boy can do.

It's worth noting that despite struggling we're level on points with a resurgent Rangers and Aberdeen.

ancient hibee
05-09-2018, 11:26 AM
People need to get away from this old fashioned idea of having cover.Itís all about having choices and competition for places so that players know when everyone is up to speed that they have to perform or else someone just as good will be in.

Smartie
05-09-2018, 11:30 AM
With the players out i'm not surprised we've struggled..

Marciano - Has his flaws but his back four know him. Continuity is huge especially in goals.
McGregor - The glue that holds it all together at the back (including Ambrose). An absolute rock.
Gray - His influence on the team is huge.
Bartley - Another who has been there and done it with Hibs. Big presence in the middle and key to breaking up pay.
Milligan - An unknown but World Cup veteran. I expect him to have a calming influence in the middle of the park.
Kamberi - We all know what this boy can do.

It's worth noting that despite struggling we're level on points with a resurgent Rangers and Aberdeen.

A very fair post.

We're in a funny place, in that I don't think any of us could say we lack quality - I just struggle to see how we fit it into a cohesive unit.

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 11:39 AM
Takes away our best passing central defender and has no one in midfield to get it from defence and move it around. That team just ends up hoofing it.

I disagree. Milligan has been brought in precisely for that purpose IMO (as well as breaking up opponents' play).

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 11:45 AM
I would play Ambrose, but I think it's moot point anyway as he seems to be a first pick for NL regardless of our formation.

I think Milligan is expected to be the guy who takes it from the defence, as well as being the guy who breaks up attacks - he certainly needs to be some player. I was never the huge McGeouch fan most Hibs fans were, but Saturday was the first game since he's left that I thought we were crying out for him. I can't remember us going long from the defence so many times, especially in the 2nd half.

I think he'll be a huge signing for us. I remember him from the France v Australia WC match (mostly because I've a pal with almost the same name). Early doors he was a bit shaky up gainst Mbappe but came onto his game and certainly didn't look out of place up against the all-star French midfield.

One Day Soon
05-09-2018, 11:52 AM
I would play Ambrose, but I think it's moot point anyway as he seems to be a first pick for NL regardless of our formation.

I think Milligan is expected to be the guy who takes it from the defence, as well as being the guy who breaks up attacks - he certainly needs to be some player. I was never the huge McGeouch fan most Hibs fans were, but Saturday was the first game since he's left that I thought we were crying out for him. I can't remember us going long from the defence so many times, especially in the 2nd half.

Unseen work and all that. :wink:

jeffers
05-09-2018, 11:58 AM
I think he'll be a huge signing for us. I remember him from the France v Australia WC match (mostly because I've a pal with almost the same name). Early doors he was a bit shaky up gainst Mbappe but came onto his game and certainly didn't look out of place up against the all-star French midfield.

I didn't see the game so that's really encouraging.

jeffers
05-09-2018, 11:59 AM
Unseen work and all that. :wink:

:greengrin I just hope jodjam on here doesn't read my post he'll never let me forget it.

JimBHibees
05-09-2018, 02:51 PM
I didn't see the game so that's really encouraging.

He was playing centre half though wasnt he.

blackpoolhibs
05-09-2018, 03:00 PM
I'd like us to play 3 at the back with any permutation of what we have, and Bartley and Milligan protecting them.

Boyle and Stevenson wide with Horgan in there too and Mallan just behind Kamberi. I think that gives us good cover when defending and good attacking options too. With plenty on the bench to come on or even change formations should it be needed?

RoscoHibby
05-09-2018, 07:07 PM
I think it is a change of formation thst we're needing with the players we now have. I think a 4-2-3-1 would suit us best at the minute.

Id go;

Rocky/Bogdan

Efe/Gray daz/ryan hanlon stevenson

Milligan bartley/slivka

Boyle mallan Horgan/agyepong

Kamberi

Good thing is with the attacking mids, very interchangable, horgan, agyepong Hyndman could all fill in, plus Whittaker an option for holding mid. Think efe could do a job in there too. Then if chasing a game, bring on Jamie Mac and revert to 4-4-2 and sacrafice an attacking mid.

How I'd go up til Jan time if i was Lenny.

houstonhibbee
05-09-2018, 08:17 PM
With the players out i'm not surprised we've struggled..

Marciano - Has his flaws but his back four know him. Continuity is huge especially in goals.
McGregor - The glue that holds it all together at the back (including Ambrose). An absolute rock.
Gray - His influence on the team is huge.
Bartley - Another who has been there and done it with Hibs. Big presence in the middle and key to breaking up pay.
Milligan - An unknown but World Cup veteran. I expect him to have a calming influence in the middle of the park.
Kamberi - We all know what this boy can do.

It's worth noting that despite struggling we're level on points with a resurgent Rangers and Aberdeen.

Rangers have played Aberdeen and Celtic away while we've played St Johnstone and Livi away

Peevemor
05-09-2018, 09:19 PM
I think he'll be a huge signing for us. I remember him from the France v Australia WC match (mostly because I've a pal with almost the same name). Early doors he was a bit shaky up gainst Mbappe but came onto his game and certainly didn't look out of place up against the all-star French midfield.https://youtu.be/uDS2Nb-E8nw