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Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 08:37 AM
For those that like them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563

easty
23-08-2018, 08:40 AM
I quite like them. That article doesn’t change anything for me.

we are hibs
23-08-2018, 08:42 AM
Has anyone been killed by one Yet?

jacomo
23-08-2018, 08:44 AM
Maybe the authorities should consider allowing them in controlled circumstances?

That would make things safer.

Jumbo
23-08-2018, 08:45 AM
You go to any outdoor music event and you’ll see more than you’ll see in a whole season at football, yet no mention of them being deaths there 🤔

hibbyfraelibby
23-08-2018, 08:45 AM
Has anyone been killed by one Yet?

Yes.

calumhibee1
23-08-2018, 08:45 AM
I was at an MLS game last summer and they had a designated area for flares and smoke bombs. I highly doubt that would be the case if they were as dangerous as is made out.

danhibees1875
23-08-2018, 08:48 AM
Has anyone been killed by one Yet?

At least 3 people, according to this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2282468/A-young-fan-killed-Corinthians-match-flare-thrown-crowd.html

we are hibs
23-08-2018, 08:48 AM
Yes.

At a football game?

hibbyfraelibby
23-08-2018, 08:49 AM
At a football game?

Yes. One in Barcelona one in Brazil and one in Bolivia in the kast few years. I think also a Police Officer died in an incident in Italy a few years ago that actually sparked a strike by Police.

Carheenlea
23-08-2018, 08:52 AM
Sensationalist headline and a bit over the top.
I think they’re great and enjoy seeing them, but they’re banned and that’s not going to change any time soon, so nothing really to debate.

Keyser Sauzee
23-08-2018, 08:58 AM
I don’t mind them tbh, I wouldn’t go take some to the football but I don’t get annoyed by them other than if the game has to be stopped while one is removed from the pitch. I just don’t get the attitude tho that even tho they are not allowed fans still take them, basically saying they don’t give a **** about what the club or rules state.

lucky
23-08-2018, 09:08 AM
Hibs find out later today how much the flares and fireworks let off in Tripolis are going to cost the club. The football authorities don’t want them in grounds based on safety so why bring them to games?

cabbageandribs1875
23-08-2018, 09:08 AM
did i read right somewhere on here that the club knows the culprit ? hope he's been crowdfunding to pay any fine we get :agree:


Hibs expect to hear later on Thursday what their Uefa punishment will be for fans setting off fireworks during the 1-1 draw with Asteras Tripolis earlier in August.
Celtic have been fined in excess of £60,000 by Uefa over the past six years after supporters let off fireworks and flares during European matches.

Dalianwanda
23-08-2018, 09:15 AM
You go to any outdoor music event and you’ll see more than you’ll see in a whole season at football, yet no mention of them being deaths there ��

Do you? Go to loads of festivals and never see them? Unless your talking on the stage in the hands of professionals..

Hermit Crab
23-08-2018, 09:20 AM
Imagine this on the terraces :greengrin

https://youtu.be/biAVdBLbZJM

Thecat23
23-08-2018, 09:21 AM
Has anyone been killed by one Yet?

Does someone have to be killed to make them dangerous?

Hermit Crab
23-08-2018, 09:23 AM
Do you? Go to loads of festivals and never see them? Unless your talking on the stage in the hands of professionals..


At Liam Gallagher last year there was 2 red flares set off inside the Hydro in the standing area, one was even launched into the crowd. Stewards did nothing.


He's right though, you do see them being held up by fans in the crowd at festivals like TITP (TRSMT), Isle of Wight festival etc.

jacomo
23-08-2018, 09:24 AM
I was at an MLS game last summer and they had a designated area for flares and smoke bombs. I highly doubt that would be the case if they were as dangerous as is made out.


The fact that they are currently banned makes them more dangerous, especially when thrown.

JimboHibs
23-08-2018, 09:50 AM
did i read right somewhere on here that the club knows the culprit ? hope he's been crowdfunding to pay any fine we get :agree:


Hibs expect to hear later on Thursday what their Uefa punishment will be for fans setting off fireworks during the 1-1 draw with Asteras Tripolis earlier in August.
Celtic have been fined in excess of £60,000 by Uefa over the past six years after supporters let off fireworks and flares during European matches.

What about the club's failure to provide official stewards we also find out how much that will cost the club.
You gonna donate to the fine for the club breaking UEFA rules.

calumhibee1
23-08-2018, 09:55 AM
The fact that they are currently banned makes them more dangerous, especially when thrown.

Genuine question, why do they become more dangerous because they’re banned? How does this make them more dangerous than if they were allowed?

I’m not an advocate of them btw, they’re banned and shouldn’t be in the stadium because of that.

SChibs
23-08-2018, 09:56 AM
As many have said before plenty flares can be seen at music festivals and gigs. There's probably a larger % of drunk people at festivals. there's most chance of a crush happening at a festival rather than a modern seated football stadium in the event of a panic caused by a flare or smoke bomb too

CropleyWasGod
23-08-2018, 09:59 AM
As many have said before plenty flares can be seen at music festivals and gigs. There's probably a larger % of drunk people at festivals. there's most chance of a crush happening at a festival rather than a modern seated football stadium in the event of a panic caused by a flare or smoke bomb too

No matter those opinions, they are banned by UEFA. That's the crux of the matter.

JimboHibs
23-08-2018, 10:05 AM
No matter those opinions, they are banned by UEFA. That's the crux of the matter.

Yet they are used before cup finals,rugby matches & nearly most English Premiership games pyros are used to I assume enhance the pre match atmosphere.

CropleyWasGod
23-08-2018, 10:06 AM
Yet they are used before cup finals,rugby matches & nearly most English Premiership games pyros are used to I assume enhance the pre match atmosphere.

Presumably, they're allowed as they're controlled and, relatively, safe.

we are hibs
23-08-2018, 10:09 AM
Does someone have to be killed to make them dangerous?

I asked the question out of curiosity. Is that okay?

Chuck Rhoades
23-08-2018, 10:18 AM
For those that like them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563

What a load of slavering nonsense.

For those buying into this, please provide some facts/examples around this happening.

Try Greece/Italy/Sweden as your starting areas.

Dalianwanda
23-08-2018, 10:19 AM
At Liam Gallagher last year there was 2 red flares set off inside the Hydro in the standing area, one was even launched into the crowd. Stewards did nothing.


He's right though, you do see them being held up by fans in the crowd at festivals like TITP (TRSMT), Isle of Wight festival etc.

I’m just talking about my experience I’ve not been to every gig. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but i do know they are banned.

MSK
23-08-2018, 10:23 AM
What a load of slavering nonsense.

For those buying into this, please provide some facts/examples around this happening.

Try Greece/Italy/Sweden as your starting areas.Cardiff - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711

Dalianwanda
23-08-2018, 10:26 AM
What a load of slavering nonsense.

For those buying into this, please provide some facts/examples around this happening.

Try Greece/Italy/Sweden as your starting areas.

Why don’t you give some evidence to disprove it.

calumhibee1
23-08-2018, 10:26 AM
What a load of slavering nonsense.

For those buying into this, please provide some facts/examples around this happening.

Try Greece/Italy/Sweden as your starting areas.

There was a link earlier in the thread provided and a further one a post or two up.

SirDavidsNapper
23-08-2018, 10:28 AM
Love them. The ones in Greece are spectacular

1van Sprou7e
23-08-2018, 10:33 AM
What an embarrassing claim from police Scotland

Also like the fact that it's such a massive problem in Scotland that they had to use an image from Poland for the article...

jacomo
23-08-2018, 10:34 AM
Genuine question, why do they become more dangerous because they’re banned? How does this make them more dangerous than if they were allowed?

I’m not an advocate of them btw, they’re banned and shouldn’t be in the stadium because of that.


Because the folk who set them off are worried about being identified and banned from the stadium. So they light them and then scarper or chuck them.

Hi Heid Yin
23-08-2018, 10:34 AM
For those ( the absolute minority) who want to impose flares on the rest of us (the overwhelming majority) I suggest that your sense of entitlement is misplaced.
A great atmosphere can be generated without smoke and fire and an increased risk to life and limb.

calumhibee1
23-08-2018, 10:37 AM
Because the folk who set them off are worried about being identified and banned from the stadium. So they light them and then scarper or chuck them.

Good point!

green&left
23-08-2018, 10:45 AM
For those that like them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563

Sensationalised bull****.

How come someone might die at a football match but not at a concert or music festival were the use is far more widespread?

You'd think that a law brought in to harass football supporters has recently been repelled or something...

Hibrandenburg
23-08-2018, 11:00 AM
Because the folk who set them off are worried about being identified and banned from the stadium. So they light them and then scarper or chuck them.

There's also the issue of the quality of sourcing these pyrotechnics, who knows exactly what chemicals are used to produce them?

Pretty Boy
23-08-2018, 11:04 AM
This kind of hyperbole from Police Scotland isn't helpful.

Flares have been commonplace across Europe and South America for decades and thus far on this thread we have managed to cobble together reports of 3 deaths dating from 1983, 1992 and 2013. Without making light of these stories it hardly seems as though someone being killed is a likely outcome. If I'm reading correctly the deaths also appear to relate to flares as opposed to the smoke bombs which are far more common in Scotland.

I'm not a huge fan of smoke bombs personally but a sensible discussion about it seems far more productive than a sensationalist claim. I remember a few years ago reading an interview with someone famous, it may have been Irvine Welsh but I could be wrong, who said that in the 60s the warnings all said that LSD and cannabis would definitely kill you and they didn't, then in the 70s and early 80s it was speed that would definitely kill you and it didn't so when heroin came along in a big way and the same warning was trotted out no one believed it because they had heard it all before. The same principle probably applies here, if you make bold claims without a huge amount of evidence to back it up then genuine warnings are more likely to fall on deaf ears.

superfurryhibby
23-08-2018, 11:14 AM
Bottom line is they are banned at the football and people chose to ignore that, costing our club much needed revenue.

To highlight that they are used at music festivals, football and rugby etc, ignores the already much repeated point that they are utlised in a controlled manner. That isn’t directly comparable to some daft fud launching one in the crowd at an all seated stadium. Can it really be that hard to grasp this?

Jack
23-08-2018, 11:16 AM
I quite like them but for as long as they're costing Hibs money that could be spent on something football related it's a no from me.

I also wonder about the folk that sneak them in and/or set them off. With a football banning order (likely to be the least of their criminal worries) as a minimum, attending future football matches can't be very high on their list of priorities.

If course they probably think they'll never be caught. I used to work in the prison service. The jails are overflowing with folk that didn't think they'd be caught!

Bishop Hibee
23-08-2018, 11:17 AM
Careful now.

Thecat23
23-08-2018, 11:21 AM
I was at an MLS game last summer and they had a designated area for flares and smoke bombs. I highly doubt that would be the case if they were as dangerous as is made out.

You can also buy firearms in the US as they don’t think they are dangerous so I wouldn’t be looking at them as a good example.

horseflesh
23-08-2018, 11:21 AM
Like to see them but would I stand in a designated area that allowed them?
No chance

Thecat23
23-08-2018, 11:23 AM
I asked the question out of curiosity. Is that okay?

Apologies then, I picked it up wrong.

calumhibee1
23-08-2018, 11:30 AM
You can also buy firearms in the US as they don’t think they are dangerous so I wouldn’t be looking at them as a good example.

Well I can’t argue with that, you win :greengrin

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 11:33 AM
So, fans of pyrotechnics want proof. Maybe you want to wait until a friend or relative is injured or worse. Well think about the people in the following.

Distress flares and smoke canisters cause death and injury at Football

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711

9 incidents at sport, concerts and films

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pyrotechnic_incidents

2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405420/Pyrotechnics-experts-helper-burned-death-large-firework-exploded-prepared-wedding-day-display-business-partner.html

UEFA study

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Stadium&Security/02/48/11/68/2481168_DOWNLOAD.pdf

I think the most pertinent paragraph in the summary of the study is this


All pyrotechnic articles complying with the Standards have a “safety distance” ( or other performance related information ) printed on the device itself which exceeds that available within a crowded
stadium. The only conclusion to be drawn from this is that manufacturers do not consider it safe for pyrotechnics to be used in stands occupied by spectators.

leithsansiro
23-08-2018, 11:35 AM
For me it all boils down to the issue about who’s hands they are in. Before a match, pyrotechnics look great and it’s controlled and planned. It’s the equivalent of an organised fireworks display. Some random punter lobbing a smoke bomb is the same as some random punter with a firework at Guy Fawkes - it might be alright, but it might be a disaster.

They’re currently banned. That’s the rules so people should follow them. “I think it makes a better atmosphere” isn’t really a valid point.

Makalambay
23-08-2018, 11:57 AM
https://partridge.cloud/grabs/S02E02/gif/wPVqbe3XffjW.gif

Lendo
23-08-2018, 12:03 PM
https://partridge.cloud/grabs/S02E02/gif/wPVqbe3XffjW.gif

You can't

Thecat23
23-08-2018, 12:30 PM
For me it all boils down to the issue about who’s hands they are in. Before a match, pyrotechnics look great and it’s controlled and planned. It’s the equivalent of an organised fireworks display. Some random punter lobbing a smoke bomb is the same as some random punter with a firework at Guy Fawkes - it might be alright, but it might be a disaster.

They’re currently banned. That’s the rules so people should follow them. “I think it makes a better atmosphere” isn’t really a valid point.

Best post on this thread. Exactly how I see it. Planned ones walking to the ground gives fans an option to do it. Sitting in a stand next to one going off and struggling to breathe isn’t the best.

easty
23-08-2018, 12:43 PM
So, fans of pyrotechnics want proof. Maybe you want to wait until a friend or relative is injured or worse. Well think about the people in the following.

Distress flares and smoke canisters cause death and injury at Football

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711

9 incidents at sport, concerts and films

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pyrotechnic_incidents

2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405420/Pyrotechnics-experts-helper-burned-death-large-firework-exploded-prepared-wedding-day-display-business-partner.html

UEFA study

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Stadium&Security/02/48/11/68/2481168_DOWNLOAD.pdf

I think the most pertinent paragraph in the summary of the study is this

Still changes nothing for me. Obviously I don't want a friend or relative injured, but that could happen with or without pyrotechnics...there have been fans taken to hospital from Easter Road that have been completely un-pyro connected. How many folk have gone to hospital because of pyrotechnics?

Your DailyMail article doesn't have anything to do with football.

NZ Green
23-08-2018, 12:52 PM
Does someone have to be killed to make them dangerous?
I think it was more a question of how dangerous they are.

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 01:01 PM
Still changes nothing for me. Obviously I don't want a friend or relative injured, but that could happen with or without pyrotechnics...there have been fans taken to hospital from Easter Road that have been completely un-pyro connected. How many folk have gone to hospital because of pyrotechnics?

Your DailyMail article doesn't have anything to do with football.

The article highlights the danger of pyrotechnics as these were experts at handling them

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/clive-james/explosion-in-number-of-fi_b_12797246.html

Just for clarity, they are illegal in the context of a football ground


the Sporting Events Control of Alcohol Act 1985 (1985 Act) (as amended by the Public Order Act 1986) makes it an offence for a person to have in their possession any firework / flare / smoke bomb etc whilst attempting to enter or whilst in any part of a designated football ground which is in sight of the pitch ,and provides police with the power to search people and to arrest persons committing offences under the Act.


http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/handling-pyrotechnics.pdf

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 01:06 PM
I'm assuming those who are using the illegality of such items as a reason have never attempted to enter a football stadium whilst under the influence of alcohol?

Hermit Crab
23-08-2018, 01:10 PM
I'm assuming those who are using the illegality of such items as a reason have never attempted to enter a football stadium whilst under the influence of alcohol?


Good point! :tee hee:


Nearly everyone in the Hibs end in Greece for a start.

danhibees1875
23-08-2018, 01:11 PM
I'm assuming those who are using the illegality of such items as a reason have never attempted to enter a football stadium whilst under the influence of alcohol?

That's like the old "you wouldn't steal a car, so why would you download a movie?" adverts. :greengrin

hibbyfraelibby
23-08-2018, 01:12 PM
I'm assuming those who are using the illegality of such items as a reason have never attempted to enter a football stadium whilst under the influence of alcohol?

Does it make any difference? You are breaking the law. If you are caught you pay the price. Just because you dont get caught does not make it right or safe nor does it rxonerate you from the consequence of your actions.

The law is the law if you dont like it lobby for its repeal but until then abide by it instead of acting like a spoiled 2 year old whose had his toys taken of them

HoboHarry
23-08-2018, 01:12 PM
You can also buy firearms in the US as they don’t think they are dangerous so I wouldn’t be looking at them as a good example.
Well I'm not sure the Americans think that lol. It's more the case that American gun owners compete with each other to see who has the most dangerous gun :greengrin

Hermit Crab
23-08-2018, 01:14 PM
Does it make any difference? You are breaking the law. If you are caught you pay the price. Just because you dont get caught does not make it right or safe nor does it rxonerate you from the consequence of your actions.

The law is the law if you dont like it lobby for its repeal but until then abide by it instead of acting lije a spoiled 2 year old whose had his toys taken of them


Hang on, how many people enter a ground each week up and down britain under the influence of alcohol, it must be in the high thousands if not hundreds of thousands, you don''t see police or fans calling for tougher action do you.

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 01:17 PM
That's like the old "you wouldn't steal a car, so why would you download a movie?" adverts. :greengrin

To be honest someone who is absolutely steaming and walking down the stairs at the East Stand probably poses a bigger threat than someone with a pyro. It would only take that inebriated indidivual to lose their footing after a few drinks and it could be a serious incident.

danhibees1875
23-08-2018, 01:20 PM
To be honest someone who is absolutely steaming and walking down the stairs at the East Stand probably poses a bigger threat than someone with a pyro. It would only take that inebriated indidivual to lose their footing after a few drinks and it could be a serious incident.

Agreed, but when Hibs start getting fined for every drunk fan then it'll be an issue. For now, being a drunken mess is your own responsibility - unlike bringing a flare to the football where the consequences aren't just your own to bare.

Hermit Crab
23-08-2018, 01:20 PM
To be honest someone who is absolutely steaming and walking down the stairs at the East Stand probably poses a bigger threat than someone with a pyro. It would only take that inebriated indidivual to lose their footing after a few drinks and it could be a serious incident.


Exact same issue in the West Upper as well, the stairs are really steep and pose a risk to those who've had a few drinks.

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 01:21 PM
Agreed, but when Hibs start getting fined for every drunk fan then it'll be an issue. For now, being a drunken mess is your own responsibility - unlike bringing a flare to the football where the consequences aren't just your own to bare.

I agree with your point about consequences. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of simply saying pyrotechnics are illegal.

HoboHarry
23-08-2018, 01:23 PM
Agreed, but when Hibs start getting fined for every drunk fan then it'll be an issue. For now, being a drunken mess is your own responsibility - unlike bringing a flare to the football where the consequences aren't just your own to bare.
Damn right, can't have things going off when you are bare. That'll scare the weans right enough........

danhibees1875
23-08-2018, 01:30 PM
I agree with your point about consequences. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of simply saying pyrotechnics are illegal.

That's fair. :aok:



Damn right, can't have things going off when you are bare. That'll scare the weans right enough........

:greengrin

hibbyfraelibby
23-08-2018, 01:59 PM
Hang on, how many people enter a ground each week up and down britain under the influence of alcohol, it must be in the high thousands if not hundreds of thousands, you don''t see police or fans calling for tougher action do you.

Whitabootery of Ugly Sister proportions...

SChibs
23-08-2018, 02:51 PM
Bottom line is they are banned at the football and people chose to ignore that, costing our club much needed revenue.

To highlight that they are used at music festivals, football and rugby etc, ignores the already much repeated point that they are utlised in a controlled manner. That isn’t directly comparable to some daft fud launching one in the crowd at an all seated stadium. Can it really be that hard to grasp this?

Nobody is saying they are used in a controlled manner at festivals. They are used the exact same at festivals as they are the football.

where'stheslope
23-08-2018, 03:03 PM
For me it all boils down to the issue about who’s hands they are in. Before a match, pyrotechnics look great and it’s controlled and planned. It’s the equivalent of an organised fireworks display. Some random punter lobbing a smoke bomb is the same as some random punter with a firework at Guy Fawkes - it might be alright, but it might be a disaster.

They’re currently banned. That’s the rules so people should follow them. “I think it makes a better atmosphere” isn’t really a valid point.
This in spades!!!
It was not that long ago at a Hibs V Hearts match that a flare or smoke bomb was thrown into the Yams end during the game!!!
It comes down to who has them and how safely they use them, and as they are banned, they should not be in or around the ground and they should not be used in a congested area at any time!!!

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 03:06 PM
This in spades!!!
It was not that long ago at a Hibs V Hearts match that a flare or smoke bomb was thrown into the Yams end during the game!!!
It comes down to who has them and how safely they use them, and as they are banned, they should not be in or around the ground and they should not be used in a congested area at any time!!!

Not so much that they are banned, but it's a criminal offence to have them in or near a football ground.

HibeeHibernian4
23-08-2018, 03:09 PM
For those that like them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563

Oh right, so an article with one man's opinion and absolutely no evidence to back it up is supposed to convince me?

You're far more likely to die in police custody than from a flare. It's a disgrace that this article isn't being challenged, utter propaganda.

HappyAsHellas
23-08-2018, 03:36 PM
I'm off to Greece next month where they are of course banned. I'll be in Gate 4 and enjoying the atmosphere. When the teams come on about 1.49, but generally at any time they tend to kick off a bit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRCGVG54HoQ

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 03:37 PM
Oh right, so an article with one man's opinion and absolutely no evidence to back it up is supposed to convince me?

You're far more likely to die in police custody than from a flare. It's a disgrace that this article isn't being challenged, utter propaganda.

Read the UEFA report and the reports of deaths and injuries then come back with something constructive.

It is a criminal offence to be in possession of a pyrotechnic in or around a football ground. End of.

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 03:39 PM
Whitabootery of Ugly Sister proportions...

Earlier on in this thread you were making the point that the law is the law and is must be abided by. So which is it? Whataboutery or is the law the law?

Sean1875
23-08-2018, 03:40 PM
https://partridge.cloud/grabs/S02E02/gif/wPVqbe3XffjW.gif

This exact scene came to mind when I first read the thread title :faf:

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 03:41 PM
Read the UEFA report and the reports of deaths and injuries then come back with something constructive.

It is a criminal offence to be in possession of a pyrotechnic in or around a football ground. End of.

As pointed out it's also a criminal office to enter a football ground under the influence of alcohol. End of.

You will be in the minority on here I'd imagine at having never broke that particular law but fair play to you.

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 03:49 PM
As pointed out it's also a criminal office to enter a football ground under the influence of alcohol. End of.

You will be in the minority on here I'd imagine at having never broke that particular law but fair play to you.


A better analogy would be driving under the influence of alcohol, in both cases you are in charge of something that could cause injury to other people. In both cases you are likely to be in court if caught.

Since90+2
23-08-2018, 03:51 PM
A better analogy would be driving under the influence of alcohol, in both cases you are in charge of something that could cause injury to other people. In both cases you are likely to be in court if caught.

It's not an analogy though, it's the law. End of.

Hibbyradge
23-08-2018, 03:51 PM
Imagine this on the terraces :greengrin

https://youtu.be/biAVdBLbZJM

You can be certain that if those things were available here, they'd be fired at opposition fan in a stadium somewhere.

1van Sprou7e
23-08-2018, 03:58 PM
You can be certain that if those things were available here, they'd be fired at opposition fan in a stadium somewhere.

Fireworks aren't available here? Or are you making a joke

Moulin Yarns
23-08-2018, 03:59 PM
It's not an analogy though, it's the law. End of.

They are both offences but only one would result in a football banning order. Being drunk in charge of a car would also result in a ban.

The punishment fits the crime.

Hibbyradge
23-08-2018, 04:41 PM
Hang on, how many people enter a ground each week up and down britain under the influence of alcohol, it must be in the high thousands if not hundreds of thousands, you don''t see police or fans calling for tougher action do you.

I don't think it is an offence to be "under the influence of alcohol", though. Otherwise, you'd be breaking the law after having a pint and Hibs wouldn't sell alcohol before games.

It's an offence to be drunk at football, but that's a subjective judgement and to be charged with the offence would, in practice, would depend on the person's behaviour.

There's nothing subjective about the law covering pyrotechnics.

Lago
23-08-2018, 04:42 PM
Does someone have to be killed to make them dangerous?
Too sensible a question.:agree:

Chuck Rhoades
23-08-2018, 04:44 PM
Read the UEFA report and the reports of deaths and injuries then come back with something constructive.

It is a criminal offence to be in possession of a pyrotechnic in or around a football ground. End of.

Don’t think anyone is disputing that fact. However, the article is atrocious.

hibbyfraelibby
23-08-2018, 04:54 PM
Earlier on in this thread you were making the point that the law is the law and is must be abided by. So which is it? Whataboutery or is the law the law?

The law is the law and you comment was right up there in ugly sister whitanootery deflection.

Abide by the law. Take the consequences if caught and just because you are not caught doesnt make it right or you an urban legend...just an unconvicted criminal

Fuzzywuzzy
23-08-2018, 05:03 PM
The whole argument about how good they look is a bit 'meh'

For those that are in the 'they're pure dead barry so they are' camp, are you really that happy to **** yourself into a fury over over something that looks 'pretty' while the club you profess to love gets fined and money that was allocated or something else lost. Not to mention the potential banning order.

It's like risking your marriage ****ging a high end hooker then shooting your load after 10 seconds after which your ****ed (figuratively and literally).

Hibernianinc
23-08-2018, 05:12 PM
Some of us would like to see an end to sectarian "songs".

Some football fans like them and think they add to the atmosphere.

Would those who like flares like to defend the right for the ibrox masses to continue their traditional ditties?

easty
23-08-2018, 05:33 PM
Some of us would like to see an end to sectarian "songs".

Some football fans like them and think they add to the atmosphere.

Would those who like flares like to defend the right for the ibrox masses to continue their traditional ditties?

Yep...liking flares means that you also think Rangers fans should be allowed to sing sectarian songs. Obviously.:aok:

Hibbyradge
23-08-2018, 05:37 PM
Yep...liking flares means that you also think Rangers fans should be allowed to sing sectarian songs. Obviously.:aok:

That's not what he suggested.

Phil MaGlass
23-08-2018, 05:40 PM
So, fans of pyrotechnics want proof. Maybe you want to wait until a friend or relative is injured or worse. Well think about the people in the following.

Distress flares and smoke canisters cause death and injury at Football

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711

9 incidents at sport, concerts and films

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pyrotechnic_incidents

2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405420/Pyrotechnics-experts-helper-burned-death-large-firework-exploded-prepared-wedding-day-display-business-partner.html

UEFA study

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/uefaorg/Stadium&Security/02/48/11/68/2481168_DOWNLOAD.pdf

I think the most pertinent paragraph in the summary of the study is this

In all my years following Hibs and attending matches in Germany, Holland Poland etc....
I have never seen 1 person injured by handheld flares, maybe the folk have been lucky, what i have seen though, are people injured through fuel propelled pyrotechnics, distress flares and the likes.

Skol
23-08-2018, 07:56 PM
I was at Ibrox a ,long time ago. Not long after the Bradford Fire disaster IIRC when 50+ people died. In those days we were housed in the upper section of the old wooden main stand.

During the game some idiot a few rows in front produced a flare and set it off. His aim wasnt good and it went straight for the roof and go caught in the netting designed to stop pigeons and seagulls roosting. There as a sudden panic and a real danger of fire before the thing fell to the ground and was put out.

Pretty scary.

Around the same time I went paintballing and was at one stage in a dugout with another guy. While defending our post a smoke bomb landed in beside us. My mate had asthma and started to suffer an attack and so I chucked the smoke bomb clear. A marshall nearby chucked it back in and my mate was struggling just then some nutjob jumped in feet first and shot us at close range and so I was able to help my asthmatic friend to fresher air.

Also pretty scary

Different story but I was also right beside the CS gas that was chucked.

None of those were nice memories. Neither was being caught under the bridge at Russell Road with the singing section and a mass of pyrotechnics

Anyone who thinks these are acceptable to inflict on other people need to grow up

Phil MaGlass
23-08-2018, 08:11 PM
I was at Ibrox a ,long time ago. Not long after the Bradford Fire disaster IIRC when 50+ people died. In those days we were housed in the upper section of the old wooden main stand.

During the game some idiot a few rows in front produced a flare and set it off. His aim wasnt good and it went straight for the roof and go caught in the netting designed to stop pigeons and seagulls roosting. There as a sudden panic and a real danger of fire before the thing fell to the ground and was put out.

Pretty scary.

Around the same time I went paintballing and was at one stage in a dugout with another guy. While defending our post a smoke bomb landed in beside us. My mate had asthma and started to suffer an attack and so I chucked the smoke bomb clear. A marshall nearby chucked it back in and my mate was struggling just then some nutjob jumped in feet first and shot us at close range and so I was able to help my asthmatic friend to fresher air.

Also pretty scary

Different story but I was also right beside the CS gas that was chucked.

None of those were nice memories. Neither was being caught under the bridge at Russell Road with the singing section and a mass of pyrotechnics

Anyone who thinks these are acceptable to inflict on other people need to grow up

Mibbe this is where the problem lies, young lads just not thinking, on saying that, I don´t have a problem with hand held flares, I think it adds to atmosphere,

DH1875
23-08-2018, 10:12 PM
Anyone else seen the videos of the Ajax fans before their game last night? I'm on my phone so can't post a link so check out youtube. 1000s of them bouncing about under the underpass outside their stadium with pyros everywhere. Whilst I like them, that canny be safe.

Clarence
23-08-2018, 10:27 PM
I was at Ibrox a ,long time ago. Not long after the Bradford Fire disaster IIRC when 50+ people died. In those days we were housed in the upper section of the old wooden main stand.

During the game some idiot a few rows in front produced a flare and set it off. His aim wasnt good and it went straight for the roof and go caught in the netting designed to stop pigeons and seagulls roosting. There as a sudden panic and a real danger of fire before the thing fell to the ground and was put out.

Pretty scary.

Around the same time I went paintballing and was at one stage in a dugout with another guy. While defending our post a smoke bomb landed in beside us. My mate had asthma and started to suffer an attack and so I chucked the smoke bomb clear. A marshall nearby chucked it back in and my mate was struggling just then some nutjob jumped in feet first and shot us at close range and so I was able to help my asthmatic friend to fresher air.

Also pretty scary

Different story but I was also right beside the CS gas that was chucked.

None of those were nice memories. Neither was being caught under the bridge at Russell Road with the singing section and a mass of pyrotechnics

Anyone who thinks these are acceptable to inflict on other people need to grow up

Most harrowing paint ball storyline since PJ and Duncan in Byker Grove.

Hi Heid Yin
24-08-2018, 12:33 AM
I was at Ibrox a ,long time ago. Not long after the Bradford Fire disaster IIRC when 50+ people died. In those days we were housed in the upper section of the old wooden main stand.

During the game some idiot a few rows in front produced a flare and set it off. His aim wasnt good and it went straight for the roof and go caught in the netting designed to stop pigeons and seagulls roosting. There as a sudden panic and a real danger of fire before the thing fell to the ground and was put out.

Pretty scary.

Around the same time I went paintballing and was at one stage in a dugout with another guy. While defending our post a smoke bomb landed in beside us. My mate had asthma and started to suffer an attack and so I chucked the smoke bomb clear. A marshall nearby chucked it back in and my mate was struggling just then some nutjob jumped in feet first and shot us at close range and so I was able to help my asthmatic friend to fresher air.

Also pretty scary

Different story but I was also right beside the CS gas that was chucked.

None of those were nice memories. Neither was being caught under the bridge at Russell Road with the singing section and a mass of pyrotechnics

Anyone who thinks these are acceptable to inflict on other people need to grow up

:top marks

CB_NO3
24-08-2018, 08:03 AM
Does someone have to be killed to make them dangerous?

Exactly. You could say the same thing about cars.

hibbyfraelibby
24-08-2018, 08:04 AM
Exactly. You could say the same thing about cars.

...and you have to have passed a test and have a licence to drive a car

Since90+2
24-08-2018, 08:40 AM
...and you have to have passed a test and have a licence to drive a car

Pollution caused by car exhaust fumes are a danger to the health of everyone who lives in a city. People should think of others safety prior to getting in a car and polluting the air.

I wonder how many people who are saying pyrotechnics are a danger to the health of fans drive on a daily basis?

danhibees1875
24-08-2018, 08:52 AM
Pollution caused by car exhaust fumes are a danger to the health of everyone who lives in a city. People should think of others safety prior to getting in a car and polluting the air.

I wonder how many people who are saying pyrotechnics are a danger to the health of fans drive on a daily basis?

:faf:

:top marks

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 08:55 AM
Pollution caused by car exhaust fumes are a danger to the health of everyone who lives in a city. People should think of others safety prior to getting in a car and polluting the air.

I wonder how many people who are saying pyrotechnics are a danger to the health of fans drive on a daily basis?

Driving (within the law) is safe and not a crime.

Pyrotechnics (as used within the confines of a crowded football stadium) are dangerous and a crime.

You'll need to prove otherwise to convince me, and the police, and the courts, and the families of those injured by pyrotechnics.

Since90+2
24-08-2018, 09:02 AM
Driving (within the law) is safe and not a crime.

Pyrotechnics (as used within the confines of a crowded football stadium) are dangerous and a crime.

You'll need to prove otherwise to convince me, and the police, and the courts, and the families of those injured by pyrotechnics.

Driving is not safe to people breathing in exhaust fumes is it? It's a major concern in cities including Edinburgh.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 09:08 AM
Driving is not safe to people breathing in exhaust fumes is it? It's a major concern in cities including Edinburgh.

Is it a criminal offence?

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 09:10 AM
Driving (within the law) is safe and not a crime.

Pyrotechnics (as used within the confines of a crowded football stadium) are dangerous and a crime.

You'll need to prove otherwise to convince me, and the police, and the courts, and the families of those injured by pyrotechnics.

Pyros are used within the confines of a football stadium.

Take a look at the Scottish Cup Final as the players walk onto the field,you can't see the opposite side for smoke.

Since90+2
24-08-2018, 09:12 AM
Is it a criminal offence?

No it's not.

Are the fumes from a car exhaust potentially hazardous to the health of those who are forced to breath them in?

Keith_M
24-08-2018, 09:20 AM
Imagine this on the terraces :greengrin

https://youtu.be/biAVdBLbZJM


That looks like fun. We should get that going in the ER Car Park before the next home game.

East Stand v FF Upper and West (old duffers included).



:greengrin

Hibbyradge
24-08-2018, 09:21 AM
Driving is not safe to people breathing in exhaust fumes is it? It's a major concern in cities including Edinburgh.

Oh stop it. That's as stupid and stubborn an argument as I've read on here.

Driving is necessary, acceptable and legal.

Pyros at games are none of those things.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 10:03 AM
No it's not.

Are the fumes from a car exhaust potentially hazardous to the health of those who are forced to breath them in?

How many deaths are caused by exhaust fumes? In other words, how many death certificates record cause of death as air pollution?

Getting back to pyrotechnics, there is a reason they are not allowed in the confines of a football stadium (except for professional displays), they are dangerous in confined spaces. If you want to find out how dangerous, go and stand inside a wardrobe and set one off. :wink:

Since90+2
24-08-2018, 10:06 AM
How many deaths are caused by exhaust fumes? In other words, how many death certificates record cause of death as air pollution?

Getting back to pyrotechnics, there is a reason they are not allowed in the confines of a football stadium (except for professional displays), they are dangerous in confined spaces. If you want to find out how dangerous, go and stand inside a wardrobe and set one off. :wink:

Notice you didn't answer the question directly , probably because you didn't like the answer.

Also I've never held a pyro let alone set one off , I just find some of the arguements and the hypocrisy on here laughable.

Oscar T Grouch
24-08-2018, 10:11 AM
Nobody is saying they are used in a controlled manner at festivals. They are used the exact same at festivals as they are the football.

Yet at festivals you can move away easily, unless the festivals you go to are all seated with banks of seats?

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 10:17 AM
Notice you didn't answer the question directly , probably because you didn't like the answer.

Also I've held a pyro let alone set one off , I just find some of the arguements and the hypocrisy on here laughable.

To enable me to give a reasonable answer to the question I was doing some reading.

I've just read some wonderfully enlightening research done by scientists at Cambridge University on the effects on air pollution.

The main exhaust pollutants are now at less than 30% of the levels they were in 1970. The risk to health by exhaust pollutants in London are the equivalent of smoking 1 cigarette per day*. (in Delhi it is 19 cigarettes a day).

Well done you, if you held a pyro at a football match, you committed a crime.

I fail to see where the hypocrisy is.

*Smoking is not a crime, neither is driving a car. Entering a football stadium with a pyrotechnic is a crime.

hibbyfraelibby
24-08-2018, 10:23 AM
To enable me to give a reasonable answer to the question I was doing some reading.

I've just read some wonderfully enlightening research done by scientists at Cambridge University on the effects on air pollution.

The main exhaust pollutants are now at less than 30% of the levels they were in 1970. The risk to health by exhaust pollutants in London are the equivalent of smoking 1 cigarette per day*. (in Delhi it is 19 cigarettes a day).

Well done you, if you held a pyro at a football match, you committed a crime.

I fail to see where the hypocrisy is.

*Smoking is not a crime, neither is driving a car. Entering a football stadium with a pyrotechnic is a crime.

**Actually smoking in a stadium where 3 sides of the stand have walls and a roof is a crime in Scotland, not a ground rule.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 10:29 AM
**Actually smoking in a stadium where 3 sides of the stand have walls and a roof is a crime in Scotland, not a ground rule.

Also true, same goes for bus shelters.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 10:32 AM
Any Pyro fans should check out Brondby at Genk last night, impressive scenes.

https://youtu.be/10MDp-TIhKs

SChibs
24-08-2018, 11:50 AM
Yet at festivals you can move away easily, unless the festivals you go to are all seated with banks of seats?

You can't move away easily at a festival. If anything it's easier to move away when there's banks of seats. That's my experience from festivals such as TITP anyway

DH1875
24-08-2018, 12:08 PM
Yet at festivals you can move away easily, unless the festivals you go to are all seated with banks of seats?

The Stone Roses gig at Hampden last year was mental. 100s of people had them and were setting them off, and believe me, it was far from easy to move anywhere through the crowds.

WeeRussell
24-08-2018, 12:09 PM
I'd maybe understand the ridiculous attempts to defend the illegal actions that cost our club money in fines and usually delays the game by a couple of minutes as some player/official stamps it out or covers it up, and restricts viewing because someone has thrown it on the pitch after a goal... if they were that impressive that they genuinely added a lot to the atmosphere.

It's a cloud of coloured smoke.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 01:01 PM
Were Hibs not due to hear the punishment from UEFA yesterday?

Not seen anything reported anywhere, I imagine it will be in the region of £7,000 to £10,000

silverhibee
24-08-2018, 01:05 PM
How many deaths are caused by exhaust fumes? In other words, how many death certificates record cause of death as air pollution?

Getting back to pyrotechnics, there is a reason they are not allowed in the confines of a football stadium (except for professional displays), they are dangerous in confined spaces. If you want to find out how dangerous, go and stand inside a wardrobe and set one off. :wink:

But why are the only dangerous at football games and not at concerts or festivals, I was down at Creamfields last night and there was plenty flares being set off around the place, TITP when it was on the go they were constantly being set off, another festival on this weekend shows them being set off, how are they not a danger at these events and why are the police not making a big deal about this.

The head of Scottish police should be more worried about someone being killed by getting stabbed or beaten to death at Ibrox on match day rather than a flare causing a death, what a scaremongerer he is, a young girl hit by a bottle inside Ibrox a few weeks ago, Scottish police taking a back seat from the green brigade at Celtc park last month when they tried to arrest someone but failed to do so when the green brigade attacked them and started throwing missiles at the police.

Scottish police are a joke, let's just keep sweeping sectarian singing under the carpet and go after some young lads who are setting of flares, it seems to be the in thing at football at present in British football, FFS, these young lads are getting more of a hard time than the casuals got and they were out causing bother and were more likely to kill someone in there time.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 01:15 PM
But why are the only dangerous at football games and not at concerts or festivals, I was down at Creamfields last night and there was plenty flares being set off around the place, TITP when it was on the go they were constantly being set off, another festival on this weekend shows them being set off, how are they not a danger at these events and why are the police not making a big deal about this.

The head of Scottish police should be more worried about someone being killed by getting stabbed or beaten to death at Ibrox on match day rather than a flare causing a death, what a scaremongerer he is, a young girl hit by a bottle inside Ibrox a few weeks ago, Scottish police taking a back seat from the green brigade at Celtc park last month when they tried to arrest someone but failed to do so when the green brigade attacked them and started throwing missiles at the police.

Scottish police are a joke, let's just keep sweeping sectarian singing under the carpet and go after some young lads who are setting of flares, it seems to be the in thing at football at present in British football, FFS, these young lads are getting more of a hard time than the casuals got and they were out causing bother and were more likely to kill someone in there time.

Funny you should bring up music festivals, I was involved with the planning of the last 2 TITP and there were not even official fireworks allowed, I never knew I had such power :greengrin

But, they are also banned at music festivals in England and Wales.

https://www.nme.com/news/flares-pyrotechnics-officially-banned-music-festivals-2032244

https://vhsfletchers.co.uk/pyrotechnic-articles-music-festivals/

silverhibee
24-08-2018, 01:53 PM
Funny you should bring up music festivals, I was involved with the planning of the last 2 TITP and there were not even official fireworks allowed, I never knew I had such power :greengrin

But, they are also banned at music festivals in England and Wales.

https://www.nme.com/news/flares-pyrotechnics-officially-banned-music-festivals-2032244

https://vhsfletchers.co.uk/pyrotechnic-articles-music-festivals/

And yet while driving down to Runcorn yesterday I listened to radio 1 and not once was there a warning that flares were banned at festivals, :greengrin but when it's a game of football taking place we get these stories from the police about how bad they are at football games, this head idiot seems to think that it is a good idea to take these specially trained dogs away from airports and train stations to detect if anyone has a flare on them at a football game, what a f***ing clown he is, the poor old football fan being picked on again.

Now, if you were involved in the last TITP then you will know how much bother there was, deaths, drug use, drug dealing, mass brawls, stabbings, and plenty flares at night time and smoke bombs through the day being set off, so far I have yet to hear from Mr anti football man at SP telling me to be aware of any of these things if I consider going to a festival or concert in Scotland.

There is bigger problems in Scottish football that need dealing with from Scottish police but for whatever reason they don't want to get involved, they make plenty of noises about doing things but never carry it through, so sweep it under the carpet and let's go after these naughty Ultras fo setting of flares and smoke bombs, yes they are illegal and shouldn't be set of inside the ground, but why are this particular group being hounded but the bigots from the West can sing away with the nasty stuff and get away with it every week.

Is setting off flares and smoke bombs outside the ground legal. ?

basehibby
24-08-2018, 02:05 PM
Sensationalised bull****.

How come someone might die at a football match but not at a concert or music festival were the use is far more widespread?

You'd think that a law brought in to harass football supporters has recently been repelled or something...


WTF is all this about gigs - I've been to hundreds of gigs and can't remember a single incidence of someone setting off pyros.

NB - if someone launched one of these into a crowd they would deserve their head to play with.

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 02:13 PM
WTF is all this about gigs - I've been to hundreds of gigs and can't remember a single incidence of someone setting off pyros.

NB - if someone launched one of these into a crowd they would deserve their head to play with.

Obviously you ain't gonna get pyros at a Chris De Burgh gig.

CropleyWasGod
24-08-2018, 02:15 PM
Obviously you ain't gonna get pyros at a Chris De Burgh gig.

Have you never listened to the words of Patricia the Stripper ffs? Pure anarchy, man.

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 02:16 PM
Have you never listened to the words of Patricia the Stripper ffs? Pure anarchy, man.

😂😂😂

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 02:28 PM
The following comes from Oldham Athletic, not exactly a hotbed of Ultra culture


The recent research, which was conducted with 1,635 Premier League supporters, found that 87% of fans believe that pyrotechnics such as flares and smoke bombs are dangerous at matches, and that 86% were concerned for their safety. The same number (86%) think flares and smoke bombs are a fire risk and 79% consider them to be a health hazard.


PYROTECHNICS AND FOOTBALL – BACKGROUND FACTS

Pyrotechnics and football – what we know

Pyrotechnics are illegal at football grounds
Being in possession of a pyrotechnic device at a football match, or attempting to bring a pyrotechnic device into a football stadium, is a criminal offence under the Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. Any person committing such an offence faces arrest and can expect the Court to make a Football Banning Order.
The 2012/13 season saw a record number arrested for pyrotechnics
There were 71 arrests for ‘Possession of a Firework / Flare at a Sporting Event’. This was an increase of 154% on arrests recorded for the 2011/12 season (28). These arrests have occurred at more matches in the Premier League (26) and Championship (21) than in League 1 and League 2 which saw less than five arrests each.
People are getting jailed and banned


In November 2013 a Manchester United fan that set off a smoke bomb during their clash with West Bromwich Albion - Sir Alex Ferguson's last game in charge – was given a two month jail term (suspended for 12 months) and banned from any football grounds for three years.
In February 2013 two Chelsea fans were jailed for 28 days and given six year football banning orders for taking smoke bombs into the Liberty Stadium for a match versus Swansea City. Their appeal for the sentence was thrown out.
In January 2013 an 18 year old Exeter City fan was jailed for two months and given a six year banning order for attempting to take a smoke bomb into Torquay United v Exeter City.
In August 2012 an Oxford United fan was jailed for two months and given a six year banning order for taking a smoke bomb into Home Park for a match versus Plymouth Argyle.

Incidents nearly always involved the away supporters
Of the 172 reported pyrotechnic incidents in the 2012/13 season, 164 were committed by away supporters.
They are used by younger fans
The average age of supporters arrested for pyrotechnic use is 20. Little disorder was reported as a direct result of their use.




Recent examples of injuries caused by pyrotechnics at English football grounds


West Bromwich Albion v Newcastle United, 20 April 2013 –fans were treated for shrapnel wounds following the setting off of thunder flashes. Debris passed through jeans and caused cuts to legs.
Wigan Athletic v Aston Villa, May 2013 - a15-year-old boy suffered lung damage from a smoke bomb thrown during the game. The boy needed hospital treatment, while two women aged 22 and 24, also required attention for the effects of the device.
Liverpool v Everton, May 2013 – an eight year Everton fan was hit by a smoke bomb thrown by fans in the away end. He was treated for a burn on his neck on his first visit to a Merseyside derby.
Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur on 20 October 2013 - an assistant referee was struck by a lit smoke canister thrown from the stand.
Leeds United v Shrewsbury Town, 11 August 2012 – two supporters were injured, one requiring hospital treatment, when an industrial firework was ignited and thrown in the away supporters’ toilet.
Coventry City v Walsall, 8 December 2012 - a flare was discharged by the Walsall supporters. A steward placed his foot on the device to prevent further smoke escaping, however the sole of his shoe melted causing injury.
Leicester City v Sheffield Wednesday, 9 March 2013 - a female supporter received treatment for burns to her leg from one of the smoke bombs thrown between supporters.
Bolton Wanderers v Huddersfield Town, 2 April 2013 - Bolton supporters ignited a flare and an 18 year old youth was treated for burns picking it up.

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 02:33 PM
Is setting off flares and smoke bombs outside the ground legal. ?

This from the federation of football supporters (England)


t it is illegal for a person over 18 years to let off the firework, flare or smoke bomb in a public place. A person over the age of 18 cannot legally be arrested for being in possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, other than when entering or attempting to enter a football match. For instance, the arrest of a football fan at a service station for possession of a smoke bomb in their car is an unlawful arrest unless the fan admits to the police officer that they intended to take the firework, flare or smoke bomb into the football ground later that day.

hibbyfraelibby
24-08-2018, 03:16 PM
Is setting off flares and smoke bombs outside the ground legal. ?

It is not illegal for a person to possess a firework, flare or smoke bomb, but it is illegal for a person over 18 years to let off the firework, flare or smoke bomb in a public place.

So letting one off in the street outside a stadium is illegal.

Ps it is illegal for an under 18yo to even have one in their possession

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 03:21 PM
It is not illegal for a person to possess a firework, flare or smoke bomb, but it is illegal for a person over 18 years to let off the firework, flare or smoke bomb in a public place.

So letting one off in the street outside a stadium is illegal

It astonishes me the amount of ignorance of the law regarding dangerous items such as pyrotechnics. If you want to buy these things you would think folk would make sure they were not risking a court appearance, fine, imprisonment and football banning order, but hey, just because I know what is legal doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Buy a smoke bomb, let it off in a football stadium and see what happens, your risk!*




*Not yours personally, just a general message to the folks who think these things "add to the atmosphere"

SChibs
24-08-2018, 03:46 PM
I don't get why people keeping saying they are illegal. We all know that. I thought the discussion was around whether or not they should be illegal.

For the people who say they don't add to the atmosphere then why would all these stadia around mainland Europe use these smoke bombs and flares to add to the occasion if they did nothing?

Sean1875
24-08-2018, 03:51 PM
I don't get why people keeping saying they are illegal. We all know that. I thought the discussion was around whether or not they should be illegal.

For the people who say they don't add to the atmosphere then why would all these stadia around mainland Europe use these smoke bombs and flares to add to the occasion if they did nothing?

Because they're fashionable and make you look like a super duper cool ultra group? :dunno:

Personally im too busy going radge at a goal to notice a bright sparkly thing fizzing away on the pitch anyways, don't see the point in them in the grounds.

HappyAsHellas
24-08-2018, 03:59 PM
Ultras do not term themselves this because they think it's cool - rather they see themselves as ultra fans, that is fans who keep on backing the team no matter how badly they may be performing. In European grounds the "organisers" have small podiums specially built for them as they face the crowd and not the game, orchestrating as it were what song is being sung at a given moment. If someone is waving a big flag in front of them they don't moan about it as they see it is their job to always encourage the team. They're not some bunch of daft wee teenagers who think they're cool. That's what being an ultra means on the continent, we don't have any (or very very few).

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 04:09 PM
I don't get why people keeping saying they are illegal. We all know that. I thought the discussion was around whether or not they should be illegal.

For the people who say they don't add to the atmosphere then why would all these stadia around mainland Europe use these smoke bombs and flares to add to the occasion if they did nothing?

What is illegal, and will result in possible arrest, fine, ban and imprisonment is individuals taking flares, smoke bombs etc into football grounds.

If you are referring to football grounds and events such as cup finals,or internationals which have professional pyrotechnicians for pre and post match display then these are perfectly legal, if you are referring to fans in grounds across Europe setting off flares as you see in the videos posted by those saying aren't these barry, then that is up to individual national association, but if the match comes under UEFA rules then they are illegal.

KdyHby
24-08-2018, 05:04 PM
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-fined-8000-euros-after-asteras-tripolis-europa-league-tie-1-4789597

8k euros fine

WhileTheChief..
24-08-2018, 05:09 PM
Worth it :rockin: :duck: :offski:

GreenT
24-08-2018, 05:10 PM
Hibs fined E8000 for the flares in Greece. Hope those who set them off are happy now. If they think they have done nothing wrong then perhaps a donation to the Club is called for

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 05:13 PM
Hibs fined E8000 for the flares in Greece. Hope those who set them off are happy now. If they think they have done nothing wrong then perhaps a donation to the Club is called for

Your talking pish 🙄

Chuck Rhoades
24-08-2018, 05:16 PM
Hibs fined E8000 for the flares in Greece. Hope those who set them off are happy now. If they think they have done nothing wrong then perhaps a donation to the Club is called for

The club confirmed to me face to face on Sunday they have identified the individual and will be banned indefinitely.

Don’t understand the “they” part of your post.

Fuzzywuzzy
24-08-2018, 05:23 PM
I love a good old fashioned grammar argument

Moulin Yarns
24-08-2018, 05:29 PM
The club confirmed to me face to face on Sunday they have identified the individual and will be banned indefinitely.

Don’t understand the “they” part of your post.

They, the person or persons guilty of getting the club into trouble. Could have said he but that would be sexist, as it might have been a she, or it.

Regardless, the individual(s) responsible has cost our club.

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 05:36 PM
They, the person or persons guilty of getting the club into trouble. Could have said he but that would be sexist, as it might have been a she, or it.

Regardless, the individual(s) responsible has cost our club.

Do you agree they should be banned ?

Thecat23
24-08-2018, 05:42 PM
Do you agree they should be banned ?

I do.

hibbyfraelibby
24-08-2018, 05:45 PM
Do you agree they should be banned ?

Yes...and the club should pursue them to recover the fine.

Scouse Hibee
24-08-2018, 05:45 PM
And yet while driving down to Runcorn yesterday I listened to radio 1 and not once was there a warning that flares were banned at festivals, :greengrin but when it's a game of football taking place we get these stories from the police about how bad they are at football games, this head idiot seems to think that it is a good idea to take these specially trained dogs away from airports and train stations to detect if anyone has a flare on them at a football game, what a f***ing clown he is, the poor old football fan being picked on again.

Now, if you were involved in the last TITP then you will know how much bother there was, deaths, drug use, drug dealing, mass brawls, stabbings, and plenty flares at night time and smoke bombs through the day being set off, so far I have yet to hear from Mr anti football man at SP telling me to be aware of any of these things if I consider going to a festival or concert in Scotland.

There is bigger problems in Scottish football that need dealing with from Scottish police but for whatever reason they don't want to get involved, they make plenty of noises about doing things but never carry it through, so sweep it under the carpet and let's go after these naughty Ultras fo setting of flares and smoke bombs, yes they are illegal and shouldn't be set of inside the ground, but why are this particular group being hounded but the bigots from the West can sing away with the nasty stuff and get away with it every week.

Is setting off flares and smoke bombs outside the ground legal. ?

A bigger concern is that you had to go to Runcorn.

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 05:48 PM
Yes...and the club should pursue them to recover the fine.

How much is the fine ?

Chuck Rhoades
24-08-2018, 05:49 PM
How much is the fine ?

€8k.

hibbyfraelibby
24-08-2018, 05:50 PM
How much is the fine ?

€8,000...or a weeks wages for Scott Allan

JimboHibs
24-08-2018, 05:56 PM
€8k.

For what Ross ?

Reading that article back there's a few posters reading the part they want to see and ignoring the other parts which the club were fined for.

Chuck Rhoades
24-08-2018, 05:59 PM
For what Ross ?

Reading that article back there's a few posters reading the part they want to see and ignoring the other parts which the club were fined for.

The Easter Road outfit will have to pay £7235 due to fans throwing objects, using pyrotechnics and insufficient stewarding of Asteras fans during the match in the Capital. In a statement, UEFA punished Hibs for “Setting of fireworks – Art. 16 (2) DR; Throwing of objects – Art. 16 (2) DR; Insufficient organization (no stewards with away supporters) – Art. 24 (2) of the UEFA Safety and Security Regulations.”

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-fined-8000-euros-after-asteras-tripolis-europa-league-tie-1-4789597

Chuck Rhoades
24-08-2018, 06:01 PM
FWIW, the object fine is two-fold - a flare and a bottle of sun cream!

superfurryhibby
24-08-2018, 06:08 PM
Bottom line is this: anyone whose behaviour costs the club money is a grade A fud, end of story.

I don’t give a **** about TITP, the street or whatever.

Don’t be a prick and don’t cost the club cash, be it banners, flares or whatever.

Iggy Pope
24-08-2018, 06:09 PM
A bit of minor disorder and a (fairly) light fine. Regrettable that the Hibs are out of pocket but it sounds like the stewarding issue is a shortcoming of the club and therefore they're accountable for that part.

If they've identified the culprit(s) who threw the firework and the 'object' and banned them then that should be that. Further vilification on here of sections of our support will be alienating and could prove damaging.

Iggy Pope
24-08-2018, 06:17 PM
I don’t give a ****.
.

Ah, Superfurry. Classic. The man don't give a ****! I get you! :greengrin

danhibees1875
24-08-2018, 06:20 PM
That's a bummer - but about as expected. I'm not sure if I'd want the individual banned though - silly thing to do and it's cost us some cash but I think there's maybe a better resolution.

superfurryhibby
24-08-2018, 06:21 PM
Ah, Superfurry. Classic. The man don't give a ****! I get you! :greengrin

A classic show closer borrowed from Steely Dan’s Showbiz Kids. Nice to know there is another who recognises the fine works of the SFA.

Iggy Pope
24-08-2018, 06:26 PM
A classic show closer borrowed from Steely Dan’s Showbiz Kids. Nice to know there is another who recognises the fine works of the SFA.

Bad Behaviour might be applicable to these young oiks also!
But let's not push this off tangent, although I could listen to Gruff speak all day never mind sing.

Hibbyradge
24-08-2018, 06:52 PM
€8,000...or a weeks wages for Scott Allan

Or 20 adult season tickets.

kaimendhibs
24-08-2018, 06:57 PM
Bottom line is this: anyone whose behaviour costs the club money is a grade A fud, end of story.

I don’t give a **** about TITP, the street or whatever.

Don’t be a prick and don’t cost the club cash, be it banners, flares or whatever.[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

jabis
24-08-2018, 07:07 PM
Not looking forward to having a one minute clap at 32 minutes ,celebrating the IQ,of some dickweener who set off a flare and had a terminal reaction.

Stantons Angel
24-08-2018, 07:16 PM
I really dont know why we are all arguing here?

The club has been fined £7000 because someone, who knew the club would suffer, decided to show off
and throw these flares not just once on this occasion.

The other part of the reason they were finded was because no stewards were allocated to us.

I would have thought that being grown adults we all knew how to behave ourselves overseas supporting our team.

We did all know the concequences of throwing flares and the outcome has not disappointed.

£7000 may not seem much to the coffers of a football club but to me its bringing our name into disrepute and i just cant believe someone
could be so stupid to think they would not be caught and banned indefinately.

Can we cut this out please before someone gets hurt or Hibs are told to play their games behind closed doors if it happens again should we get into Europe again.

I dont care about what happens at other games, concerts marches etc i care about the safety of the Hibs support and my clubs good name.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:20 PM
I wonder if the individual who messed up in regards to stewarding will lose their job. Not only have their actions cost the club money but insufficient stewarding could lead to dangerous situations arising within the stadium endangering Supporters.

marinello59
24-08-2018, 07:23 PM
I wonder if the individual who messed up in regards to stewarding will lose their job. Not only have their actions cost the club money but insufficient stewarding could lead to dangerous situations arising within the stadium endangering Supporters.

The fine for lack of stewarding is an utter nonsense. Hibs had nothing to do with ticketing for the game, it was all down to the home team . Up to them to provide stewards. UEFA are as dumb as the SFA.

Thecat23
24-08-2018, 07:24 PM
I wonder if the individual who messed up in regards to stewarding will lose their job. Not only have their actions cost the club money but insufficient stewarding could lead to dangerous situations arising within the stadium endangering Supporters.

Or the silly wee prick who done it just shouldn’t bring it in. Only one person to blame.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:25 PM
Or the silly wee prick who done it just shouldn’t bring it in. Only one person to blame.

What are you on about?

Dancehibs
24-08-2018, 07:26 PM
The fine for lack of stewarding is an utter nonsense. Hibs had nothing to do with ticketing for the game, it was all down to the home team . Up to them to provide stewards. UEFA are as dumb as the SFA.
No it’s not that’s the rules. We took stewards to molde. Club have mucked up.

marinello59
24-08-2018, 07:28 PM
No it’s not that’s the rules. We took stewards to molde. Club have mucked up.

You have to provide stewards once the travelling support goes over a certain number. How could our club assess that when the hone team kept control of ticketing. It’s a dumb rule no matter how you look at it.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:29 PM
The fine for lack of stewarding is an utter nonsense. Hibs had nothing to do with ticketing for the game, it was all down to the home team . Up to them to provide stewards. UEFA are as dumb as the SFA.

Ignorance is not an excuse. It’s Hibs duty to be aware of all the applicable rules and regulations surrounding this game.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:32 PM
You have to provide stewards once the travelling support goes over a certain number. How could our club assess that when the hone team kept control of ticketing. It’s a dumb rule no matter how you look at it.

Just because it’s a dumb rule doesn’t mean you can simply ignore it and expect no punishment. Hibs may not have known exactly how many away supporters would travel, the sensible solution would be to ensure sufficient were provided for Hibs selling out. If their had been a serious incident I doubt “it’s a dumb rule” would wash with those affected.

Nakedmanoncrack
24-08-2018, 07:32 PM
I wonder if the individual who messed up in regards to stewarding will lose their job. Not only have their actions cost the club money but insufficient stewarding could lead to dangerous situations arising within the stadium endangering Supporters.

Spot on!

You've got people here relishing a fellow fan being banned indefinitely, but the club is entirely responsible for part of the fine, ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

Yet, nobody else appears to be calling for that person/s responsible to pay a price!

marinello59
24-08-2018, 07:33 PM
Ignorance is not an excuse. It’s Hibs duty to be aware of all the applicable rules and regulations surrounding this game.

Ignorance? Eh. If Hibs weee not involved in the ticketing arrangements prior to us travelling how could they know how many of us would be over there. That really should have been down to Tripolis.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:33 PM
Spot on!

You've got people here relishing a fellow fan being banned indefinitely, but the club is entirely responsible for part of the fine, ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

Yet, nobody else appears to be calling for that person/s responsible to pay a price!

Apparently some rules are ok to flaunt but others not.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:35 PM
Ignorance? Eh. If Hibs weee not involved in the ticketing arrangements prior to us travelling how could they know how many of us would be over there. That really should have been down to Tripolis.

Ignorance of the rule. Hibs have access to the rules and regulations covering the fixture, they are publicly available on UEFA’s website.

Nakedmanoncrack
24-08-2018, 07:37 PM
Ignorance? Eh. If Hibs weee not involved in the ticketing arrangements prior to us travelling how could they know how many of us would be over there. That really should have been down to Tripolis.

Hibs were involved in the ticketing arrangements which were agreed between the clubs.

Hibernian can confirm ticketing arrangements for next week’s UEFA Europa League Second Qualifying Round tie with Asteras Tripolis.
The club have been in continued dialogue with our opponents to make arrangements as easy as possible for our travelling supporters whilst adhering to the ticketing procedures and regulations in Greece.
Ticket Price
25€ (approx. £22)
Supporters will enter through Gate 4, with gates opening 2 hours before the game. The club have been given an allocation of over 1600 tickets.
Ticket Purchase Locations
Tickets will be available in Tripoli on the day before the game and the day of the game from the following locations:
Wednesday 1 August
9am-2.30pm: “StarStore”, Ethnikis Antistasasews 52 str., Tripoli center
12pm-8pm: Stadium Ticket Booth, Tertseti Str, Asteras Tripoli Stadium
Thursday 2 August
9am-2pm, 6pm-8pm: “StarStore”, Ethnikis Antistasasews 52 str., Tripoli center
10am-9pm: Stadium Ticket Booth, Tertseti Str, Asteras Tripoli Stadium
WE STRONGLY URGE SUPPORTERS TO BUY IN ADVANCE – THE PURCHASING PROCESS CAN TAKE SOME TIME AND SUPPORTERS WILL MISS LARGE PARTS OF THE GAME IF THEY DO NOT PURCHASE THEIR TICKET IN ADVANCE OF ARRIVAL. IF POSSIBLE WE ADVISE TO PURCHASE THE DAY BEFORE THE MATCH, OR ON THE MORNING OF THE MATCH.
We appreciate this may not be suitable to some supporters travelling in for the game, but unfortunately this is the most practical way of managing the ticketing process. Supporters should make every effort to purchase well in advance of attending the match.
Supporters will require their passports when purchasing tickets.

Thecat23
24-08-2018, 07:40 PM
What are you on about?

You really have to ask?

Prick brings smoke bomb into game, prick is responsible for said smoke bomb simples.

Wait we are still taking about the smokebomb?

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 07:41 PM
You really have to ask?

Prick brings smoke bomb into game, prick is responsible for said smoke bomb simples.

My post was nothing to do with the smoke bomb or the individual who threw it.

Thecat23
24-08-2018, 07:43 PM
My post was nothing to do with the smoke bomb or the individual who threw it.

Apologies I fixed my post just now.

Dancehibs
24-08-2018, 07:50 PM
You have to provide stewards once the travelling support goes over a certain number. How could our club assess that when the hone team kept control of ticketing. It’s a dumb rule no matter how you look at it.
You’d be better contacting UEFA if your that bothered. If hibs didn’t know a good support was going over they are clueless

marinello59
24-08-2018, 08:14 PM
You’d be better contacting UEFA if your that bothered. If hibs didn’t know a good support was going over they are clueless

I’m not that bothered. It’s not me attacking our club. :wink:

marinello59
24-08-2018, 08:17 PM
Hibs were involved in the ticketing arrangements which were agreed between the clubs.

Hibernian can confirm ticketing arrangements for next week’s UEFA Europa League Second Qualifying Round tie with Asteras Tripolis.
The club have been in continued dialogue with our opponents to make arrangements as easy as possible for our travelling supporters whilst adhering to the ticketing procedures and regulations in Greece.
Ticket Price
25€ (approx. £22)
Supporters will enter through Gate 4, with gates opening 2 hours before the game. The club have been given an allocation of over 1600 tickets.
Ticket Purchase Locations
Tickets will be available in Tripoli on the day before the game and the day of the game from the following locations:
Wednesday 1 August
9am-2.30pm: “StarStore”, Ethnikis Antistasasews 52 str., Tripoli center
12pm-8pm: Stadium Ticket Booth, Tertseti Str, Asteras Tripoli Stadium
Thursday 2 August
9am-2pm, 6pm-8pm: “StarStore”, Ethnikis Antistasasews 52 str., Tripoli center
10am-9pm: Stadium Ticket Booth, Tertseti Str, Asteras Tripoli Stadium
WE STRONGLY URGE SUPPORTERS TO BUY IN ADVANCE – THE PURCHASING PROCESS CAN TAKE SOME TIME AND SUPPORTERS WILL MISS LARGE PARTS OF THE GAME IF THEY DO NOT PURCHASE THEIR TICKET IN ADVANCE OF ARRIVAL. IF POSSIBLE WE ADVISE TO PURCHASE THE DAY BEFORE THE MATCH, OR ON THE MORNING OF THE MATCH.
We appreciate this may not be suitable to some supporters travelling in for the game, but unfortunately this is the most practical way of managing the ticketing process. Supporters should make every effort to purchase well in advance of attending the match.
Supporters will require their passports when purchasing tickets.

Hibs were involved in announcing that Tripolis had retained control of sales and tickets were only sold on the day of the game over there.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 08:20 PM
I’m botbthwt bothered. It’s not me attacking our club. :wink:

Nobody is attacking the club though, just questioning the actions of an individual who’s mistake has cost the club money. The same way those questioning the actions of the individual who threw the flare are not attacking the whole Hibs support.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 08:24 PM
Hibs were involved in announcing that Tripolis had retained control of sales and tickets were only sold on the day of the game over there.

The threshold for the requirement to provide Stewards is 500 supporters, I doubt Hibs would have been unaware that in excess of that figure were planning on travelling to the game. Even if they were uncertain, it’s surely better to provide adequate stewarding to ensure you comply with the rules of that number is exceeded.

FIFA advise a ratio of 1 steward per 250 supporters is sufficient.

1875godsgift
24-08-2018, 08:25 PM
Nobody is attacking the club though, just questioning the actions of an individual who’s mistake has cost the club money. The same way those questioning the actions of the individual who threw the flare are not attacking the whole Hibs support.


To be fair, it's probably cheaper to take that part of the fine on the chin than have sent over, say, 20 stewards? :dunno:

1875godsgift
24-08-2018, 08:28 PM
The threshold for the requirement to provide Stewards is 500 supporters, I doubt Hibs would have been unaware that in excess of that figure were planning on travelling to the game. Even if they were uncertain, it’s surely better to provide adequate stewarding to ensure you comply with the rules of that number is exceeded.

FIFA advise a ratio of 1 steward per 250 supporters is sufficient.


Oops, didn't see your post!

Maximum 8 stewards then, to cover the allocation.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 08:29 PM
To be fair, it's probably cheaper to take that part of the fine on the chin than have sent over, say, 20 stewards? :dunno:

FIFA recommend 1 steward per 250 supporters so 4 stewards would have been sufficient. The purpose of the solidarity payments received by FIFA are to cover costs such as stewarding.

Also, why would it be acceptable to flaunt this rule but not other rules?

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 08:30 PM
Oops, didn't see your post!

Maximum 8 stewards then, to cover the allocation.

:aok:

1875godsgift
24-08-2018, 08:33 PM
FIFA recommend 1 steward per 250 supporters so 4 stewards would have been sufficient. The purpose of the solidarity payments received by FIFA are to cover costs such as stewarding.

Also, why would it be acceptable to flaunt this rule but not other rules?

Maybe thought they had a get-out clause because the tickets were being sold on the day, making it difficult to assess numbers?

Also the club maybe didn't anticipate some raj throwing a firework leading to FIFA's attentions?

silverhibee
24-08-2018, 09:02 PM
A bigger concern is that you had to go to Runcorn.

Got a wee bit lost yesterday :greengrin will say Warrington is a dump.

silverhibee
24-08-2018, 09:10 PM
Ignorance? Eh. If Hibs weee not involved in the ticketing arrangements prior to us travelling how could they know how many of us would be over there. That really should have been down to Tripolis.

You would have thought UEFA would have understood that and not charged hibs, seems like they didnt and hibs have been fined, if it's a dumb rule then I would expect hibs to appeal the fine.

silverhibee
24-08-2018, 09:12 PM
You really have to ask?

Prick brings smoke bomb into game, prick is responsible for said smoke bomb simples.

Wait we are still taking about the smokebomb?

FFS Shirley, we had moved on from smoke bombs, Deary me. :na na:

linlithgowhibbie
24-08-2018, 09:34 PM
The threshold for the requirement to provide Stewards is 500 supporters, I doubt Hibs would have been unaware that in excess of that figure were planning on travelling to the game. Even if they were uncertain, it’s surely better to provide adequate stewarding to ensure you comply with the rules of that number is exceeded.

FIFA advise a ratio of 1 steward per 250 supporters is sufficient.

I've plenty years experience of crowd control with footie/rugby fans and would volunteer to do this at any future matches abroad. (For no charge):nlgwa

Hibbyradge
24-08-2018, 10:05 PM
Apparently some rules are ok to flaunt but others not.

Hibs made a mistake.

The person who threw the flare did so deliberately.

Nakedmanoncrack
24-08-2018, 10:05 PM
Hibs were involved in announcing that Tripolis had retained control of sales and tickets were only sold on the day of the game over there.

:faf:

''The club have been in continued dialogue with our opponents to make arrangements as easy as possible for our travelling supporters whilst adhering to the ticketing procedures and regulations in Greece.''

''We appreciate this may not be suitable to some supporters travelling in for the game, but unfortunately this is the most practical way of managing the ticketing process. Supporters should make every effort to purchase well in advance of attending the match.''.

No suggestion, that Tripolis 'retained control of sales', there was dialogue between the clubs, before the arrangements were announced without any hint that Hibs were not happy with them.

Hibbyradge
24-08-2018, 10:08 PM
:faf:

''The club have been in continued dialogue with our opponents to make arrangements as easy as possible for our travelling supporters whilst adhering to the ticketing procedures and regulations in Greece.''

''We appreciate this may not be suitable to some supporters travelling in for the game, but unfortunately this is the most practical way of managing the ticketing process. Supporters should make every effort to purchase well in advance of attending the match.''.

No suggestion, that Tripolis 'retained control of sales', there was dialogue between the clubs, before the arrangements were announced without any hint that Hibs were not happy with them.

We bought our tickets from the Asteras stadium and Tripoli shop. They did have control of ticketing.

marinello59
24-08-2018, 10:11 PM
Hibs made a mistake.

The person who threw the flare did so deliberately.

There were smoke bombs etc getting let off outside the Olive Garden pub pre match and nobody batted an eyelid. The march to the stadium saw several flares etc let off and nobody was bothered. It’s fair to assume that whoever chucked the flare that got us fined had been totally caught up in the atmosphere and the moment after we scored. Stupid? Maybe, but I can sort of understand how it happened.

Glory Lurker
24-08-2018, 10:16 PM
There were smoke bombs etc getting let off outside the Olive Garden pub pre match and nobody batted an eyelid. The march to the stadium saw several flares etc let off and nobody was bothered. It’s fair to assume that whoever chucked the flare that got us fined had been totally caught up in the atmosphere and the moment after we scored. Stupid? Maybe, but I can sort of understand how it happened.

Just like OF fans singing the songs in the stadium that they sung on the walk up.

CapitalGreen
24-08-2018, 10:20 PM
Hibs made a mistake.

The person who threw the flare did so deliberately.

My post was in response to someone suggesting it was perhaps cheaper to deliberately break the rule and take the fine instead of providing the required stewards.

BullsCloseHibs
24-08-2018, 10:24 PM
FIFA recommend 1 steward per 250 supporters so 4 stewards would have been sufficient. The purpose of the solidarity payments received by FIFA are to cover costs such as stewarding.

Also, why would it be acceptable to flaunt this rule but not other rules?

I think lesson learned by Hibs. Unlikely we'll see this again next time we're in Europe and the fine, whilst unwanted, isn't TOO bad.

BullsCloseHibs
24-08-2018, 10:25 PM
There were smoke bombs etc getting let off outside the Olive Garden pub pre match and nobody batted an eyelid. The march to the stadium saw several flares etc let off and nobody was bothered. It’s fair to assume that whoever chucked the flare that got us fined had been totally caught up in the atmosphere and the moment after we scored. Stupid? Maybe, but I can sort of understand how it happened.

Totally agree.

0762
25-08-2018, 12:20 AM
Hibs made a mistake.

The person who threw the flare did so deliberately.

Couldnt agree more. Was about to write a 1000 word response as ragging the club has been fined but wound my neck in and deleted most of it. Short version:

Club mistake - they didn’t take stewards which they know the should have. Someone at ER will have made a conscious decision knowing that if something went wrong the club would be held accountable. Poor decision.

Those who decided pyros were fun let the club down badly. We all know they are banned but still some people thought that a cheap thill was better than tarnishing the club.

Both need to have a look.

Hibbyradge
25-08-2018, 01:06 AM
My post was in response to someone suggesting it was perhaps cheaper to deliberately break the rule and take the fine instead of providing the required stewards.

Yes, my apologies, I mixed up the posts.

marinello59
25-08-2018, 03:26 AM
Just like OF fans singing the songs in the stadium that they sung on the walk up.

Erm.. no.

Brizo
25-08-2018, 06:24 AM
There were smoke bombs etc getting let off outside the Olive Garden pub pre match and nobody batted an eyelid. The march to the stadium saw several flares etc let off and nobody was bothered. It’s fair to assume that whoever chucked the flare that got us fined had been totally caught up in the atmosphere and the moment after we scored. Stupid? Maybe, but I can sort of understand how it happened.

Young boys behaving stupidly at the fitba and not thinking about the consequences for the club or their fellow fans.... part of growing up and I'm sure there are many of us who saw and possibly did much worse back in the day than the current trend for pyros. It doesn't make it right but per the above posters account I can see how the pyro thing would happen.

Young laddies will always push the boundaries at the fitba and while the pyros should be stopped for health and safety reasons and the people with them punished, there were a lot worse things going on thirty / forty years ago. Probably just as well the internet wasn't about in the 70s / 80s :wink:

Dancehibs
25-08-2018, 07:27 AM
Or the silly wee prick who done it just shouldn’t bring it in. Only one person to blame.
Hibs happy to use footage outside the pub of smoke flares getting used in their video story of the game

Dancehibs
25-08-2018, 07:31 AM
I’m not that bothered. It’s not me attacking our club. :wink:
You sound awfy bothered. Attacking the club .... a winking emoji ....

Thecat23
25-08-2018, 07:34 AM
Hibs happy to use footage outside the pub of smoke flares getting used in their video story of the game

That isn’t in the ground though is it??

Fuzzywuzzy
25-08-2018, 07:42 AM
I still can't get the '**** the club' attitude about the fine and the fact they're not allowed in the ground.

You know the club get fined and lose money so why do it?

Dancehibs
25-08-2018, 07:47 AM
That isn’t in the ground though is it??
I think you know the answer to your question. Isn’t really acceptable outside the pub. Looks good adds to atmosphere. Hence hibs happy to use footage. Also looked brilliant in the ground

marinello59
25-08-2018, 07:52 AM
You sound awfy bothered. Attacking the club .... a winking emoji ....

:na na:

Dancehibs
25-08-2018, 08:06 AM
:na na:
Your on fire now

Blaster
25-08-2018, 08:08 AM
I think you know the answer to your question. Isn’t really acceptable outside the pub. Looks good adds to atmosphere. Hence hibs happy to use footage. Also looked brilliant in the ground

Hibs have no responsibility outside the ground
What’s so difficult to understand?

Moulin Yarns
25-08-2018, 08:17 AM
I see there might be a possible solution. Sell them in the club shop, or for those that remember the "macaroon Bars" sellers of old, have them sold from a tray by vendors in certain areas of the ground (Section 25) :greengrin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695


http://stadiumdb.com/news/2016/12/pyrotechnics_brondby_a_step_from_creating_safe_fla res

Dancehibs
25-08-2018, 08:21 AM
Hibs have no responsibility outside the ground
What’s so difficult to understand?
What’s so difficult to understand about the link using footage and flares and smoke bombs in the ground

Nakedmanoncrack
25-08-2018, 09:50 AM
We bought our tickets from the Asteras stadium and Tripoli shop. They did have control of ticketing.

So did I.

With no complaints from Hibs, who discussed the arrangements with Asteras, and came to what was a sensible solution given the short time available, and the large capacity of the away end. What you are suggesting is that none of this dialogue happened - and the Greeks just kept the tickets to themselves, absolving Hibs of any responsibility, which is clearly not true.

As for the lack of stewards, it was a genuine issue - I'm sure you'll remember arriving at the stadium to find a police riot bus parked directly across the 2 turnstiles, so after making our way across a swamp we arrived at this vehicle, and had to squeeze into the gap between it, several riot police, and a wall to get to the 2 turnstiles, with no stewarding it wasn't clear what way we were supposed to go, others tried going in from the other end, with only direction being from the police pointing & gesturing aggressively. Someone in a suit from Hibs did come down and try to 'steward' but not being a steward & dealing with hundreds of fans, most of us well lubricated, he wasn't making much headway. It was a situation that could easily have led to more serious confrontation with the police.

SChibs
25-08-2018, 10:29 AM
So another leading policeman has now came out and said 'safe flares' could be allowed in the future. Presumably these still won't 'add to the atmosphere' so there will still be people conplianing

jacomo
25-08-2018, 10:37 AM
So another leading policeman has now came out and said 'safe flares' could be allowed in the future. Presumably these still won't 'add to the atmosphere' so there will still be people conplianing


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695

I’m not sure if this means a different design of flare (I think it does) or a designated safe area for flares.

Anyhow it shows people are thinking about this issue in more creative ways, which is good.

Moulin Yarns
25-08-2018, 10:40 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695

I’m not sure if this means a different design of flare (I think it does) or a designated safe area for flares.

Anyhow it shows people are thinking about this issue in more creative ways, which is good.

earlier post


I see there might be a possible solution. Sell them in the club shop, or for those that remember the "macaroon Bars" sellers of old, have them sold from a tray by vendors in certain areas of the ground (Section 25) :greengrin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45291695


http://stadiumdb.com/news/2016/12/pyrotechnics_brondby_a_step_from_creating_safe_fla res

Hibrandenburg
25-08-2018, 11:14 PM
Hibs made a mistake.

The person who threw the flare did so deliberately.

I think the old phrase "two wrongs don't make a right" might be relevant on this thread.

JK Rolling
26-08-2018, 03:40 PM
What a load of slavering nonsense.

For those buying into this, please provide some facts/examples around this happening.

Try Greece/Italy/Sweden as your starting areas.


Do you hear yourself when you speak?

Ask yourself the following (for starters).

Where are these flares from. (Country of origin, production standards, safety checks, etc.)

What is actually in them.

How toxic are the fumes.

How volatile are they.

After answering these points ask yourself, would you REALLY want to be the person holding / stand next to the person holding one of these things.

silverhibee
03-09-2018, 05:00 PM
For those that like them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45275563

So a day after the old firm game, I wonder if Bernard still thinks that the biggest danger to someone dying at a football game is still a flare, wonder what his thoughts are after yesterday's events, where do you start, smoke bombs/flares being set off, fans crushed out side the ground where a female is trampled on by a police horse, attempted murder at a Celtc pub after the game, players receiving some nasty stuff on social media, Gazza being a arse, take it one of Bernard's colleagues will be wanting a word with the Geordie clown and of course the vile sectarian singing from both sets of fans, but yeah, flares are the biggest threat, and yet the only thing that never made the papers were the smoke bombs that were set of in the Celtc end.

Will say it again, the biggest threat to life at a football game is going to come from a group of fans in Glasgow with there blades and not a silly flare, wake up Bernard..