artificial pitches

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

I see Jamie Murphy is out for the season with ligament damage, which has prompted another outpouring of anti artificial pitch speeches from Gerrard etc. Is there actually any truth in the idea these pitches are more likely to cause injury or is this just an urban myth? Presumably ligament damage can happen on any kind of pitch?

[patlowe]

Elite players will obviously have a far more informed view but I've played competitive football at varying levels for 20+ years and playing on the new generations of pitches was eye opening in how much easier it is to play on, ie flat, smooth surface, great for passing football, not having to second guess the pitch etc. They are also almost always playable but I understand the emotional attachment to grass and the aversion to the aesthetics re the pellets etc.

Having said all that, despite still playing the majority of my football on it I can count on one hand the number of injuries (more than small knocks) I have picked up on grass. On the other hand I've come away from playing on 3/4G pitches a number of times with back and heel impact injuries, while playing on it comparitively much less.

There's a number of variables at play of course, individual physiologies, age, the generation/quality of the pitch etc etc, but IMO (and their will be many views) it seems pretty obvious there are risks inherent with artificial pitches. I was quite amazed by the guy on Sportsound the other day saying there are no significant differences in the rates of injury. Again I'm no expert but my experience, and that of many of the guys I play with, is very different.

Having said all that, the benefits of these pitches are clear and if they can help improve the future of our game, maybe later generations will solve the perceived issues.

[Carheenlea]

There are places for artificial pitches, but the top flight league in Scotland shouldn't be one of them. At least, not the ones of the quality we have been subjected to to date.

[Ozyhibby]

There does not appear to be any data to say that there are more injuries on Astro compared to grass.
I prefer grass myself but any debate can’t be based on Murphy getting injured on it as if that injury never happens on grass.


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[Ozyhibby]

There are places for artificial pitches, but the top flight league in Scotland shouldn't be one of them. At least, not the ones of the quality we have been subjected to to date.

What I find weird is that the new pitch at Spartans is a far better pitch than these top flight clubs are installing? Not sure why that is?


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[SonOfDavidFrancey]

Article in today’s herald with a boffin saying that there is no evidence to suggest these pitches are more injury-causing

[Sean1875]

I suppose a lot of those stats would come down to how many injuries are actually reported by players for these 'boffins' to gather their data.

I would take the word over the professionals that play on them multiple times at a competitive level and are speaking out against them, over the word of a boffin sat at a desk looking at figures.

As a previous poster has said, I can see the use of artificial pitches but IMO they should not be used for a professional clubs competitive games in the top league of Scottish football.

[inglisavhibs]

[QUOTE=patlowe;5525821]Elite players will obviously have a far more informed view but I've played competitive football at varying levels for 20+ years and playing on the new generations of pitches was eye opening in how much easier it is to play on, ie flat, smooth surface, great for passing football, not having to second guess the pitch etc. They are also almost always playable but I understand the emotional attachment to grass and the aversion to the aesthetics re the pellets etc.

Having said all that, despite still playing the majority of my football on it I can count on one hand the number of injuries (more than small knocks) I have picked up on grass. On the other hand I've come away from playing on 3/4G pitches a number of times with back and heel impact injuries, while playing on it comparitively much less.

There's a number of variables at play of course, individual physiologies, age, the generation/quality of the pitch etc etc, but IMO (and their will be many views) it seems pretty obvious there are risks inherent with artificial pitches. I was quite amazed by the guy on Sportsound the other day saying there are no significant differences in the rates of injury. Again I'm no expert but my experience, and that of many of the guys I play with, is very different.

Having said all that, the benefits of these pitches are clear and if they can help improve the future of our game, maybe later generations will solve the perceived issues.[/QUOTE

All about opinions but couldn't disagree with you more. It's a completely different game on artificial surfaces as you can't get the same quick movements as you do on grass. Hated playing on them and hate watching games on them too (it's like watching a practice match). If football was played solely on astro pitches my days as a football supporter would end. I understand the need for them in Scotland's weather but at the top level they should be banned.










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[Hermit Crab]

I don't think they should be allowed in the top flight, theres always a risk of injury when playing on any type of pitch. We tend not to risk Boyle on them and didn't risk Fyvie on plastic surfaces. There does seem to be more serious injuries sustained on them though.

[where'stheslope]

I don't think they should be allowed in the top flight, theres always a risk of injury when playing on any type of pitch. We tend not to risk Boyle on them and didn't risk Fyvie on plastic surfaces. There does seem to be more serious injuries sustained on them though.

If you look at statistics it will also tell you that many more of the same type of injuries happen on grass?
Looking at the last week, Berra's injury was on grass, Jamie Murphy's happened on plastic so we must get rid of plastic???
Maybe we should all just have asphalt or shale, and maybe have no studs on to lessen the chance of injuries!!!!

[Ozyhibby]

If you look at statistics it will also tell you that many more of the same type of injuries happen on grass?
Looking at the last week, Berra's injury was on grass, Jamie Murphy's happened on plastic so we must get rid of plastic???
Maybe we should all just have asphalt or shale, and maybe have no studs on to lessen the chance of injuries!!!!

Every injury on Astro is blamed on the pitch while every injury on grass is just rotten luck.



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[Hermit Crab]

If you look at statistics it will also tell you that many more of the same type of injuries happen on grass?
Looking at the last week, Berra's injury was on grass, Jamie Murphy's happened on plastic so we must get rid of plastic???
Maybe we should all just have asphalt or shale, and maybe have no studs on to lessen the chance of injuries!!!!


I thought hearts have a hybrid pitch of some sort? :confused:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It’ll be the end of the art of streaking ...

https://www.snsgroup.co.uk/dunfermline-v-hibs-765975.html

Anyone able to put their hand up to that one?

[SChibs]

I've played almost exclusively on astro for the last 10 years and not really played on grass at all. Last year I done the play on the pitch at Easter road and despite playing football 3 times a week I was sore for almost a week after that game. It wasn't as much muscle soreness from exercise it was more joint pain and quite a sore back.

My take on it was I was used to playing on astro and not grass and my body wasn't used to it. Flip that on its head and players usually play on grass and may pick up small injuries from astro if they are unfamiliar with the surface

[7Hero]

Anybody that states the pitches cause more damage simply are talking out there *****, i know this as i have extreme knowledge on these pitches for over 20 years.

but to give you all a fantastic example and story - Frank Sauzee played at the world of football many years ago, (in fact hearts and hibs both used the WOF in chesser around the same time and even had pitches next to each other)

He and mcleish loved the pitches as frank did less damage to his knees as opposed to training on the grass pitches. Now that was on the old pitches, the newer pitches are even better.

Can't get a better reference than that :)

[Lancs Harp]

I thought hearts have a hybrid pitch of some sort? :confused:

Aye swamp and very long grass.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Article in today’s herald with a boffin saying that there is no evidence to suggest these pitches are more injury-causing

No evidence? What’s this all about then?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5544152/

[CockneyRebel]

]If you look at statistics it will also tell you that many more of the same type of injuries happen on grass?[/B]
Looking at the last week, Berra's injury was on grass, Jamie Murphy's happened on plastic so we must get rid of plastic???
Maybe we should all just have asphalt or shale, and maybe have no studs on to lessen the chance of injuries!!!!


Of course they do - because many many more matches are played on grass! A % figure would have to be used to to make a fair comparison.

[Haymaker]

Personally I find artificial pitches to leave me with aching ankles, knees and lower back and much prefer to play/practice on grass.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Maintenance (topping up sand / pellets) and wearing the correct footwear are key apparently.

i found my Achilles feeling the strain.

[Phil MaGlass]

Thing for me is, there might be alot less injuries on artificial pitches if clubs like Killie actually ke[t their pitch in pristene condition, maybe the so called experts can tell us how many injuries happened on ****ty kept artificial pitches, how teams like killie get away with it ah dinne ken?

[Phil MaGlass]

If you look at statistics it will also tell you that many more of the same type of injuries happen on grass?
Looking at the last week, Berra's injury was on grass, Jamie Murphy's happened on plastic so we must get rid of plastic???
Maybe we should all just have asphalt or shale, and maybe have no studs on to lessen the chance of injuries!!!!

no cuttin the grass finally came back and bit them oan thur erses

[Lancs Harp]

Just out of interest and purely in the context of debate, are there any injury stats coming out of the MLS where I would presume there are far more team percentage wise have artificial pitches?

[JimBHibees]

It’ll be the end of the art of streaking ...

https://www.snsgroup.co.uk/dunfermline-v-hibs-765975.html

Anyone able to put their hand up to that one?

Pretty sure that was a Pars fan.

[muzzhfc]

Don’t understand the “don’t belong in top flight” argument. Should a team, let’s say Falkirk, have grass one season then lay down a synthetic pitch the next and go on to win the league - should they then fork out another half million or so putting grass back down? I’d say have them i the third division only. A grace period (ie a team gets promoted and they have 3 or 4 seasons to lay grass) in the second and first but the the time a team is in the top flight it should be grass.

[Carheenlea]

Don’t understand the “don’t belong in top flight” argument. Should a team, let’s say Falkirk, have grass one season then lay down a synthetic pitch the next and go on to win the league - should they then fork out another half million or so putting grass back down? I’d say have them i the third division only. A grace period (ie a team gets promoted and they have 3 or 4 seasons to lay grass) in the second and first but the the time a team is in the top flight it should be grass.

In such a scenario, clubs would need to decide on a playing surface which will be in line with their ambitions as a club. If promotion to the top flight is an ambition then they use a grass pitch. We’ve been waiting for years for artificial pitches to improve, but this doesn’t seem to be happening, and with what we have been subjected to in Scotland, it looks like they are actually getting worse.
It will be interesting to keep an eye on the hybrid pitch at Tynecastle throughout the season as this does seem to be the most preferable way of doing things, albeit an expensive one and out of reach financially for most clubs.

[WeeRussell]

Anybody that states the pitches cause more damage simply are talking out there *****, i know this as i have extreme knowledge on these pitches for over 20 years.

but to give you all a fantastic example and story - Frank Sauzee played at the world of football many years ago, (in fact hearts and hibs both used the WOF in chesser around the same time and even had pitches next to each other)

He and mcleish loved the pitches as frank did less damage to his knees as opposed to training on the grass pitches. Now that was on the old pitches, the newer pitches are even better.

Can't get a better reference than that :)

Nice story - but it's one player and one specific injury.

Overall plastic pitches cause far more injuries than grass.

Afraid it's you that's simply talking out your, ahem, bottom. :greengrin

[overdrive]

I thought hearts have a hybrid pitch of some sort? :confused:

They do but the hybrid ones like Hearts and Celtic have are essentially just like grass pitches. It is mostly grass and the main element of the fake stuff is at root level.

Some players have blamed hybrid pitches for injuries though.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think i have seen one decent game of football on a plastic pitch, for that reason alone i wouldn't have them in the top tier.