Contactless Payments

[dp00]

This could maybe be something the fan reps could get us feedback on however maybe someone on hibs.net knows the answer

Why can’t we take card/contactless payments at any of the food stalls or even behind the goals (when it’s open) ?

It’s 2018 where most folk don’t Carry cash, don’t know how many times I’ve fancied a juice/sweet only to remember I have no cash on me and card isn’t accepted. Surely we must be losing some money due to this as I can’t be alone ? Especially given the lack of cash machines in the area ?

There are buskers up town at the festival with contactless machines, so surely it’s not that expensive to have them [emoji848]




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[Viva_Palmeiras]

Buskers with contactless :) really?!

Thought it was to do with the transaction fees charged and therefore additional cost to Hibs/Caterers and ultimately fans but could be misspoken.

[Golden Bear]

This could maybe be something the fan reps could get us feedback on however maybe someone on hibs.net knows the answer

Why can’t we take card/contactless payments at any of the food stalls or even behind the goals (when it’s open) ?

It’s 2018 where most folk don’t Carry cash, don’t know how many times I’ve fancied a juice/sweet only to remember I have no cash on me and card isn’t accepted. Surely we must be losing some money due to this as I can’t be alone ? Especially given the lack of cash machines in the area ?

There are buskers up town at the festival with contactless machines, so surely it’s not that expensive to have them [emoji848]




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Not so sure. I've reverted back to only taking enough cash to meet my likely expenditure as it would mean less hassle to deal with in the event of a loss.

[WhileTheChief..]

How much would it cost to fit all these terminals at every till in the stadium?

They’d get used once a fortnight right? Let’s save the cash and you take some more in your pocket instead!!

[green&left]

How much would it cost to fit all these terminals at every till in the stadium?

They’d get used once a fortnight right? Let’s save the cash and you take some more in your pocket instead!!

You'd only a a couple per stand.

I bought a painting from a street artist using chip and pin. They can't be that expensive.

[Sylar]

The iZettle system would be ideal for this - it's cheap as chips to set up, easy to use and I'm pretty sure it's charged on a monthly basis per unit.

I'm assuming the club already have some chip and pin facility for ticketing and merchandise in the shop, so surely to christ it can't be that difficult to implement an expansion of the areas it's available throughout the stadium?

[green&left]

The iZettle system would be ideal for this - it's cheap as chips to set up, easy to use and I'm pretty sure it's charged on a monthly basis per unit.

I'm assuming the club already have some chip and pin facility for ticketing and merchandise in the shop, so surely to christ it can't be that difficult to implement an expansion of the areas it's available throughout the stadium?

iZettle just charge a fee (2% per transaction i think - helped set one up in a hotel a while back). They have chip & pin in the ticket boots now.

[calumhibee1]

How much would it cost to fit all these terminals at every till in the stadium?

They’d get used once a fortnight right? Let’s save the cash and you take some more in your pocket instead!!

While I would agree that the more money to the club the better (although do they make money from the catering sales? Or do they just contract the whole thing out and then it’s the caterers job to make their own money?) there comes a point when the money just needs to take a hit for fan convenience. I very rarely carry cash and while I know that I can’t buy anything at the game without it I usually forget as next to nowhere else that I go doesn’t take card anymore.

[danhibees1875]

I think it's something the caterers would have to decide was worth the cost rather than Hibs.

As others have said, it can't be that expensive though. I came out of a fringe show last night and someone was asking for charity donations and had a contactless pad for it.

[H18 SFR]

Sure I read there was a lower league English club where you could add the change up to the next pound and donate to the equivalent of HSL. That would be a good idea.

[Salisbury Hibby]

If you "don't carry cash" I think you just have to accept that you are running a risk of not being able to carry out some transactions. It's your choice. I carry a bit of cash and some cards. I like to be prepared.



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[calumhibee1]

Sure I read there was a lower league English club where you could add the change up to the next pound and donate to the equivalent of HSL. That would be a good idea.

That would definitely be a good idea and something I would make use of.

[calumhibee1]

If you "don't carry cash" I think you just have to accept that you are running a risk of not being able to carry out some transactions. It's your choice. I carry a bit of cash and some cards. I like to be prepared.



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Of course. However you’re only really running a risk at Easter Road as you can pay by card for near enough everything you’ll ever buy. That’s when it becomes the catering companies problem to solve rather than the fan IMO.

[Moulin Yarns]

The iZettle system would be ideal for this - it's cheap as chips to set up, easy to use and I'm pretty sure it's charged on a monthly basis per unit.

I'm assuming the club already have some chip and pin facility for ticketing and merchandise in the shop, so surely to christ it can't be that difficult to implement an expansion of the areas it's available throughout the stadium?

I use iZettle and have taken card payments in the middle of fields in highland Perthshire where there is no Wi-Fi. 1.75% fee per transaction and £30 for the card reader.

[Brightside]

This could maybe be something the fan reps could get us feedback on however maybe someone on hibs.net knows the answer

Why can’t we take card/contactless payments at any of the food stalls or even behind the goals (when it’s open) ?

It’s 2018 where most folk don’t Carry cash, don’t know how many times I’ve fancied a juice/sweet only to remember I have no cash on me and card isn’t accepted. Surely we must be losing some money due to this as I can’t be alone ? Especially given the lack of cash machines in the area ?

There are buskers up town at the festival with contactless machines, so surely it’s not that expensive to have them [emoji848]




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We can't even sort out a decent pie.... no chance of getting contactless on board!

[Hibbyradge]

I use iZettle and have taken card payments in the middle of fields in highland Perthshire where there is no Wi-Fi. 1.75% fee per transaction and £30 for the card reader.

I imagine that you, and buskers, use your machines more than a couple of dozen times a year.

I agree that it wouldn't be a huge expense, but there really isn't a need for the caterers to provide contactless.

The number of people who don't make a purchase because they haven't brought cash must be miniscule, and their occasional purchases wouldn't cover the cost, as low as it is.

Of course, people who currently use cash to pay for their grub would start using contactless too, further denting the profit margins and undoubtedly, that would lead to price increases.

It can't be that difficult to remember to bring a fiver along with your session ticket.

[Salisbury Hibby]

Of course. However you’re only really running a risk at Easter Road as you can pay by card for near enough everything you’ll ever buy. That’s when it becomes the catering companies problem to solve rather than the fan IMO.I'm curious as to why you don't use cash. There will be someone wanting Hibs to accept Bitcoin next.

Do you never have trouble with taxis?

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[calumhibee1]

I'm curious as to why you don't use cash. There will be someone wanting Hibs to accept Bitcoin next.

Do you never have trouble with taxis?

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Just easier to use card than carry cash around. Can keep track of what I’ve spent and where, can pay using my phone so don’t even need my wallet, saves me going to cash machines to withdraw cash etc. I rarely use taxis and when I do I usually use Uber which is paid for by card through the app.

[SChibs]

I'm curious as to why you don't use cash. There will be someone wanting Hibs to accept Bitcoin next.

Do you never have trouble with taxis?

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To be honest in this day in age there's no really need to carry cash other than in exceptional circumstances such as you have lost your card or you are going somewhere that Might not accept card. Even in places such as the pub it's usually much quicker to use contactless than to give the bartender cash and get change

[Brightside]

I'm curious as to why you don't use cash. There will be someone wanting Hibs to accept Bitcoin next.

Do you never have trouble with taxis?

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Norway was cashless.... weather you like it or not we will as a nation move to cashless over the next few years. Most taxis accept cards now too.

[Salisbury Hibby]

Just easier to use card than carry cash around. Can keep track of what I’ve spent and where, can pay using my phone so don’t even need my wallet, saves me going to cash machines to withdraw cash etc. I rarely use taxis and when I do I usually use Uber which is paid for by card through the app.Some good reasons to prefer to use a card but not to be cashless., it is still your choice and ultimately your problem if a vendor doesn't accept card for the transaction.

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[Salisbury Hibby]

Norway was cashless.... weather you like it or not we will as a nation move to cashless over the next few years. Most taxis accept cards now too.Who said I didn't like it? I doubt that cash will disappear in the next few years.

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[danhibees1875]

Some good reasons to prefer to use a card but not to be cashless., it is still your choice and ultimately your problem if a vendor doesn't accept card for the transaction.

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It is, but it's frustrating when vendors don't take card - buses being my particular gripe. Although it probably saves me a fortune as I would be much more inclined to just jump on a bus to get home if I knew I could easily pay for it by card.

[WhileTheChief..]

Folk paying by card on buses are a nightmare, they just hold everyone else up.

You think service is slow at ER just now? Wait till you have folk trying to work out how to use contactless.

You’ll be going home hungry.

[calumhibee1]

It is, but it's frustrating when vendors don't take card - buses being my particular gripe. Although it probably saves me a fortune as I would be much more inclined to just jump on a bus to get home if I knew I could easily pay for it by card.

I find it crazy that buses don’t take card payments. The amount of people that use buses every day yet everyone still has to scramble to get the correct change to use it. Touch pads like on London’s underground would be so easy. I literally never use buses but I could see me being more inclined to jump on and tap my card to get out the rain than going to a cash machine, then going into a shop for change and then getting on the bus.

[danhibees1875]

I find it crazy that buses don’t take card payments. The amount of people that use buses every day yet everyone still has to scramble to get the correct change to use it. Touch pads like on London’s underground would be so easy. I literally never use buses but I could see me being more inclined to jump on and tap my card to get out the rain than going to a cash machine, then going into a shop for change and then getting on the bus.

To be fair, I think frequent users probably have passes or use the app (it doesn't work for me though, and you have to buy 7+ tickets at a time) - but I only use buses if it's raining quite badly and I'm feeling a bit lazy (today for instance - and I had to scramble round my flat looking for 10p coins). The London system where you just tap your card on/off all of your transport is extremely efficient. :agree:

[Sylar]

I find it crazy that buses don’t take card payments. The amount of people that use buses every day yet everyone still has to scramble to get the correct change to use it. Touch pads like on London’s underground would be so easy. I literally never use buses but I could see me being more inclined to jump on and tap my card to get out the rain than going to a cash machine, then going into a shop for change and then getting on the bus.

I can't imagine it's far away from happening in Edinburgh. You can already pay using contactless on buses in Glasgow.

[itslegaltender]

The London underground is great now, just tap your card at the barrier and tap it on way out, it then works out the cheapest fare for you and charges your card. As someone else said, within 10 years it will be a cashless society. Over a third of all card transactions now dont have a pin entered.

[GreenCastle]

Cash is on the way out - wherther people like it or not.

Supermarkets will be card / contactless only in future.

ER does need to move with the times but would rather they get the food quality right first - a wide variety of healthy and unhealthy stuff for everyone.

I know in Holland at some stadiums they do food and drink cards - but like season ticket membership that can be topped up. Was ok but bit of a pain as you had to queue twice to sort.

The other thing is....the nearest ATM is probably Easter Road !!!

[basehibby]

I've no doubt this sort of technology will be introduced at some time - probably at the same time they replace the teenage saturday workers with Robotic pie dispensers - which will be a sad day even if they will be 200% quicker than said spotty teenagers.

Really though - this is nowhere even close to a priority. Message to OP - visit a bank and get some money ya lazy fud.

[Golden Bear]

It's a lot less pain losing a tenner than a contactless bank card.

That is for sure.

[matty_f]

I imagine that you, and buskers, use your machines more than a couple of dozen times a year.

I agree that it wouldn't be a huge expense, but there really isn't a need for the caterers to provide contactless.

The number of people who don't make a purchase because they haven't brought cash must be miniscule, and their occasional purchases wouldn't cover the cost, as low as it is.

Of course, people who currently use cash to pay for their grub would start using contactless too, further denting the profit margins and undoubtedly, that would lead to price increases.

It can't be that difficult to remember to bring a fiver along with your session ticket.

The couple of dozen times a year is a bit disingenuous, imho.

Speaking as someone who would definitely have used it at least once (when I'm not in my 'boycott the overpriced crap' moods), and while the kiosks are only operational a couple of dozen times a year, when they are open they see a high volume of transactions.

Sales are as much about convenience as anything else these days, and making it easier to buy something will generally see sales and profit increase rather than decrease.

There's also the benefit of contactless transactions being faster than cash transactions, so people get served more quickly, which again encourages people to use the kiosks.

[Jamesie]

I was at the Bayer Leverkusen v Hannover end-of-season match at the start of May as part of a stag do. You can't actually use cash to make any purchase from the catering outlets - it's necessary to buy a contactless electronic card for €10 (refundable on return at the end of the game) and add cash to that in order to make a purchase.

I'm not sure what the ins and outs of using this system over contactless bank / credit card payments are. A local explained to me that this system was primarily introduced to speed up time at the kiosks and to avoid any chance whatsoever of staff fiddling the till in what was previously a very cash rich environment.

Sure, in terms of economies of scale Bayer probably get 2/3 times as many fans through the gates than we do and therefore it's a lot more cost efficient for them, but that said the iZettle system described in this thread should be fairly simple to implement - even if it takes some training for the kiosk staff.

[mutley]

This is something i've pondered. Although I do not know the maths around the cost of the system, and the charges involved by the number of transactions. However, a lot of the time taken in the queues as the kiosks is the fact that they have to enter the amount in manually for each item, and then try and wok out how much change to give (if there is enough change in the till) then ask you again what you ordered as they have forgotten. When you could place your order, zap your card and be done with it.

It could reduce queuing time and therefore make more money as more people would stay in the queue rather than leaving to get back in time to see the 2nd half kick off. (there has been a couple of occasions where I have been in the queue and then gave up as it takes too long).

Maybe a trial at 1 kiosk, and analyse the time taken/ items sold/funds taken and compare to a cash till.

[660]

Cash is becoming obsolete.

[itslegaltender]

I reckon people would also spend more, handing over cash compared to contactless is a different experience.

[Golden Bear]

Cash is becoming obsolete.

I know the feeling.

:greengrin

[green day]

Cash is becoming obsolete.

They said that about Norway and everywhere in Molde took cash

[1two]

Pockle

[Hibbyradge]

The couple of dozen times a year is a bit disingenuous, imho.

Speaking as someone who would definitely have used it at least once (when I'm not in my 'boycott the overpriced crap' moods), and while the kiosks are only operational a couple of dozen times a year, when they are open they see a high volume of transactions.

Sales are as much about convenience as anything else these days, and making it easier to buy something will generally see sales and profit increase rather than decrease.

There's also the benefit of contactless transactions being faster than cash transactions, so people get served more quickly, which again encourages people to use the kiosks.

Yes, you're right. I didn't quite think it through.

I don't know how many refreshment kiosks there are at ER, but there must be at least 4 in each stand so that's 16.

How many machines would be needed for each? Maybe 3 meaning 48 in total. Add a couple of spares to make the arithmetic easier and that's 50 at a cost of £30 each = £1500.

That's quite an investment to satisfy a handful of folk who don't want to carry a fiver.

I'm sure they will be introduced at some point in the future, but I'm equally sure that prices will rise to pay for them.

[Since90+2]

Yes, you're right. I didn't quite think it through.

I don't know how many refreshment kiosks there are at ER, but there must be at least 4 in each stand so that's 16.

How many machines would be needed for each? Maybe 3 meaning 48 in total. Add a couple of spares to make the arithmetic easier and that's 50 at a cost of £30 each = £1500.

That's quite an investment to satisfy a handful of folk who don't want to carry a fiver.

I'm sure they will be introduced at some point in the future, but I'm equally sure that prices will rise to pay for them.

There have been loads of studies which show that the average spend per transaction is higher when the purchaser uses card as opposed to cash. I'm sure McDonald's done a study and it was something like £3 more per transaction on card.

If that is replicated at Easter Road that's a healthy additional income over the course of a season and that initial £1500 would probably be covered in one game.

[Hibbyradge]

There have been loads of studies which show that the average spend per transaction is higher when the purchaser uses card as opposed to cash. I'm sure McDonald's done a study and it was something like £3 more per transaction on card.

If that is replicated at Easter Road that's a healthy additional income over the course of a season and that initial £1500 would probably be covered in one game.

I don't doubt the research, but I buy a pie when I go to games.

I'm not going to buy 2 because I'm paying with plastic.

[calumhibee1]

It is, but it's frustrating when vendors don't take card - buses being my particular gripe. Although it probably saves me a fortune as I would be much more inclined to just jump on a bus to get home if I knew I could easily pay for it by card.

I find it crazy that buses don’t take card payments. The amount of people that use buses every day yet everyone still has to scramble to get the correct change to use it. Touch pads like on London’s underground would be so easy. I literally never use buses but I could see me being more inclined to jump on and tap my card to get out the rain than going to a cash machine, then going into a shop for change and then getting on the bus.

[Oscar T Grouch]

The actual cost of installing contactless POS terminals is much more than mooted in this thread. The iZettle machines need modern tills to integrate them (or no till at all which would be a nightmare for staff)the tills at ER from memory would need replaced. To put a contactless POS in for every till could cost in the 10s of thousand, which is way too much to invest at the moment. Football takes time to catch up with technology and while contactless card transactions are probabaly in the majority now in terms of POS transactions football match days are still almost exclusively cash based. This will happen in the future but I don’t think for quite a few years yet.

[WhileTheChief..]

I find it crazy that buses don’t take card payments. The amount of people that use buses every day yet everyone still has to scramble to get the correct change to use it. Touch pads like on London’s underground would be so easy. I literally never use buses but I could see me being more inclined to jump on and tap my card to get out the rain than going to a cash machine, then going into a shop for change and then getting on the bus.

You can pay by card on Glasgow’s buses but it takes ages.

It is just a simple tap of the card on the terminal but similar to when you use a cash machine it takes time to read the details then print out your ticket.

You see lots of people waiting behind them. Folk using cash or bus passes are way quicker.

[MyJo]

Yes, you're right. I didn't quite think it through.

I don't know how many refreshment kiosks there are at ER, but there must be at least 4 in each stand so that's 16.

How many machines would be needed for each? Maybe 3 meaning 48 in total. Add a couple of spares to make the arithmetic easier and that's 50 at a cost of £30 each = £1500.

That's quite an investment to satisfy a handful of folk who don't want to carry a fiver.

I'm sure they will be introduced at some point in the future, but I'm equally sure that prices will rise to pay for them.

I don't tend to buy stuff at ER very often as 9 times out of 10 I don't have any cash on me as I very rarely carry any.

I reckon it would be more than a handful that would take advantage of this and IMO a contactless option would absolutely generate more sales.

Wouldn't have to be to the extent that you are suggesting either. Even 1 till per kiosk that was non-cash where you could use contactless or apple/android pay only and if you want to pay by card you queue up at one of those tills to be served.

[calumhibee1]

You can pay by card on Glasgow’s buses but it takes ages.

It is just a simple tap of the card on the terminal but similar to when you use a cash machine it takes time to read the details then print out your ticket.

You see lots of people waiting behind them. Folk using cash or bus passes are way quicker.

I wonder if it’s so quick on the London Underground because it’s almost leaving an open tab rather than charging you there and then. You’re then charged at the end of the day as a cumulative total rather than individual payments.

[essexhibee]

Buskers with contactless :) really?!

Thought it was to do with the transaction fees charged and therefore additional cost to Hibs/Caterers and ultimately fans but could be misspoken.

Even toilet attendants down here in nightclubs have them now.

[matty_f]

I was at the Bayer Leverkusen v Hannover end-of-season match at the start of May as part of a stag do. You can't actually use cash to make any purchase from the catering outlets - it's necessary to buy a contactless electronic card for €10 (refundable on return at the end of the game) and add cash to that in order to make a purchase.

I'm not sure what the ins and outs of using this system over contactless bank / credit card payments are. A local explained to me that this system was primarily introduced to speed up time at the kiosks and to avoid any chance whatsoever of staff fiddling the till in what was previously a very cash rich environment.

Sure, in terms of economies of scale Bayer probably get 2/3 times as many fans through the gates than we do and therefore it's a lot more cost efficient for them, but that said the iZettle system described in this thread should be fairly simple to implement - even if it takes some training for the kiosk staff.


Werder Bremen do this as well, we went to a game last year and got the pints in using their card, once we topped it up it was easy.

[The Modfather]

It’s as much about the customer experience as it is the lack of carrying cash for me.

Currently it’s not great waiting ages in a queue as the staff are invariably new and getting to terms with how to work the till or work out how much change to give etc. The catering “experience” is poor from the low quality food, basic food options and only accepting cash. It’s not the most important part of a Hibs game but one aspect that makes up the overall experience.

[Carheenlea]

It’s something that will happen eventually at Easter Road, but far from a priority right now. Probably a decade away from being an essential facility, and by then the equipment will be more advanced and probably cheaper.

[Moulin Yarns]

I imagine that you, and buskers, use your machines more than a couple of dozen times a year.

I agree that it wouldn't be a huge expense, but there really isn't a need for the caterers to provide contactless.

The number of people who don't make a purchase because they haven't brought cash must be miniscule, and their occasional purchases wouldn't cover the cost, as low as it is.

Of course, people who currently use cash to pay for their grub would start using contactless too, further denting the profit margins and undoubtedly, that would lead to price increases.

It can't be that difficult to remember to bring a fiver along with your session ticket.

As I only trade once or twice a month, I have had 23 card transactions in 18 months, but I would have lost those sales if I hadn't had the ability to take card payments, and that would make a large difference to my turnover.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Slightly off topic but the cramond inn won't take a card payment unless over £20, bunch of ****s

[ancient hibee]

Contactless payments-the next big scam/disaster.

[660]

Contactless payments-the next big scam/disaster.

Why? What was the last one?

[malcolm]

Contactless payments-the next big scam/disaster.

Agree a cashless society relinquishes all control over and access to your money to the banks .. today the buyer is not charged for using a debit card whether you use pin or wave it about in the general direction of a unit all geared to helping its self to your money without your active authority.

The vendor is charged and this cost is perhaps subsidised by the cash buyers.. when there is no cash buyers the banks are likely to also start to charge to access your own money unless you pay for other services where they can make money from you.

Cashless is inevitable but for now I won’t use contactless so that I am always in control. I use an Oyster card that does the contactless travel and auto tops up so I see benefits.

What cashless society will do will put a squeeze on the black economy but that will evolve to find digital wheezes to avoid tax and sight of the authorities... the safety net of actual cash to an individual will be a casualty

If the pies were any good then i might buy them using cash :wink:

[Peevemor]

What hasn't been mentioned is the huge amount of time saved at the end of the day by not having to "cash up" the tills. The less cash involved the quicker it is (with fewer and smaller discrepancies).

This represents a huge economy and facilitates accounting and stock control and analysis as every sale and respective payment is precisely documented.

Although some traders, especially food related, prefer the vagueness of cash transactions...

[BegbieHSC]

Norway was cashless.... weather you like it or not we will as a nation move to cashless over the next few years. Most taxis accept cards now too.

Been to 4 Bundesliga stadiums, and all of those were cashless (Allianz Arena, Freiburg’s Dreisamstadion, the Olympiastadiom and Borussia-Park.)

just seems to be the done thing over there.

[BegbieHSC]

Been to 4 Bundesliga stadiums, and all of those were cashless (Allianz Arena, Freiburg’s Dreisamstadion, the Olympiastadiom and Borussia-Park.)

just seems to be the done thing over there.

The Dreisamstadion incidentally only has a capacity of 2,000 more than Easter Road.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Norway was cashless.... weather you like it or not we will as a nation move to cashless over the next few years. Most taxis accept cards now too.

:agree:

Completely cashless, I never once saw a coin, a note, or anyone making any transactions in cash.
This included bars, cafe's, buses, AND the 'pie stalls' at the game.

They are years ahead of us.

[Scouse Hibee]

To be honest in this day in age there's no really need to carry cash other than in exceptional circumstances such as you have lost your card or you are going somewhere that Might not accept card. Even in places such as the pub it's usually much quicker to use contactless than to give the bartender cash and get change


Call me old fashioned but the term "in this day and age" in relation to carrying cash is a nonsense to me. I never go out without cash and would never dream of going on a night out unless I have £100+ in my wallet as well as my card. It annoys the hell out of me when people have trouble paying with their cards in busy pubs which on many occasions does hold up service. My local pub only accepts cash and there is never an issue. You only have yourself to blame if you lose out because you have neglected to take cash out with you in my opinion.

[ancient hibee]

Join me at Luddite United.

[Lancs Harp]

Thought this was going to be a thread about the payment arrangements between Sevco and Hearts for Laugherty.