Time to spend some money Hibs

[Captain Trips]

I really wish we didn't use the term top six when describing our aspirations. We should be looking to make top 3/4 anything else isn't good enough getting I to the top 6 should be a matter of course on what we are trying to do. 6th is a failure. IMO of course.

[Springbank]

our midfield stands off and admires opponents rather than putting a foot in
much worse teams that Molde (hearts etc) will take advantage of a team that gives too much room for passes and crosses to be slung in, runners unchecked and a slack defence which is beatable in the air.

[Inconsequential]

We’ve played 8 competitive games this season and lost 1 at a time when we have had to recast our midfield and main strikers.Can’t help thinking that we would have been delighted before a ball was kicked if we could have been given that. A very rational post ancient hibee! We should really look at the participation in Europe as a bonus and a nice little earner for the club. At this time last year Hibs were a newly promoted side to the Premier League. The main aim then I suspect would be to cement a place in the top six. We have now lost quite a few of our top men through one reason or another and it will take time for new arrivals and hopefully future signings to bed in and play as a unit. It will be very difficult to repeat what we achieved last season and finish fourth which may or not be qualification for Europe again. We are not in crisis and lets judge where we are after playing our domestic opponents after the first eleven games of the season.

[superfurryhibby]

I really wish we didn't use the term top six when describing our aspirations. We should be looking to make top 3/4 anything else isn't good enough getting I to the top 6 should be a matter of course on what we are trying to do. 6th is a failure. IMO of course.

Based on resources and budget, we are probably 5th in Scotland. Playing for 3rd place is a competition against a team whose turnover was 5 million/ year higher than ours ( Aberdeen) and a team who have a benefactor and a fans group who pump in a lot of money(Hearts).

Failure is all relative.

[JimBHibees]

Absolutely.

Though I would say ( and I have repeated this on other threads and make no apology for it ) that a lot of this 'negativity' which appeared after last night's game appears to be the result of an old phenomenon that we have rarely had the opportunity to see on this forum in the last few years. That being a number of folk who though long time members rarely post unless the chance arises to rip into the club or the team … they were making hay while the sun shone yesterday.

IMO last night was a reality check for a few folk who it appears have forgotten a few basic truths about what it means to support Hibernian football club. There will always be peaks and troughs, its never going to be plain sailing, and we will always be in a state of flux when the absolute certainty is that when we discover enough good players to create a better than average team we will end up losing them to bigger clubs with far more money, in fact these days to smaller clubs with far more money.

When that happens getting the team back to where you want it to be, or where it was, is a huge task and thinking we can achieve that within less than two months of the players first pre season friendly is so unreasonably optimistic, not to mention unfair on the club, its unbelievable. We weren't pumped out of the Scottish cup by Stenhousemuir last night, we were beaten over two legs in a European tie by a team far better prepared for the challenge than we could hope to have been.

Its too easy in the euphoria of everything positive that's happened over the last few years to forget all this and that setbacks like last night have to be put into the context of a bigger picture. The reality is that you support a club where there are ALWAYS going to be setbacks and disappointments and if you haven't grasped that by now and accepted it, you have chosen the wrong club to follow my friends.

Great post.

[mcfly]

Some absolute slabbers in this thread. Unreal what one bad result can do.

We'll be just fine this season. We're good and will show it.

Couldn’t agree more.

We have come such a long way in a short time.

Have faith and back the team

[hhibs]

We've already spent the best part of half a million on fees for 3 players. On top of that, there will be VAT, signing on fees and agents' commission to pay, which in total will add up to a significant sum. Then there is a commitment to the players' wages for 3/4 years on top of the initial outlay. We've also got an option on Maclaren at £400,000, according to the press (I know, I know).

So it's just not true to say that we won't spend significant money, because we already have in this window.

Hibs recover their VAT payments, so that is a wash,no impact.

[Captain Trips]

Based on resources and budget, we are probably 5th in Scotland. Playing for 3rd place is a competition against a team whose turnover was 5 million/ year higher than ours ( Aberdeen) and a team who have a benefactor and a fans group who pump in a lot of money(Hearts).

Failure is all relative.

It is relative and regardless of backing and resources how that backing and resource is used is way more important than actually having it.

Rangers Celtic should finish above us providing they signed players who give them the value they paid. As for Aberdeen and Hearts certainly in Hearts case I do not care about there resources we have IMO a better team and as far as Aberdeen are concerned we are pretty damn close.

NL is a better manager than both Craig Levein and an unproven Gerrard so as far as I am concerned Hibs can easily at this moment in time operate in looking to be 2nd to 4th. That's what I think and probably Lennon does as well.

[Scotty Leither]

It is relative and regardless of backing and resources how that backing and resource is used is way more important than actually having it.

Rangers Celtic should finish above us providing they signed players who give them the value they paid. As for Aberdeen and Hearts certainly in Hearts case I do not care about there resources we have IMO a better team and as far as Aberdeen are concerned we are pretty damn close.

NL is a better manager than both Craig Levein and an unproven Gerrard so as far as I am concerned Hibs can easily at this moment in time operate in looking to be 2nd to 4th. That's what I think and probably Lennon does as well.

I harbour a notion of seeing Hibs challenge for the League title, and I suspect Neil Lennon does too.

I don't think those in positions of power and influence on the Board agree though, and that's where the disconnect between us "bed wetters" and the bean counters lie, IMHO.

[where'stheslope]

It is relative and regardless of backing and resources how that backing and resource is used is way more important than actually having it.

Rangers Celtic should finish above us providing they signed players who give them the value they paid. As for Aberdeen and Hearts certainly in Hearts case I do not care about there resources we have IMO a better team and as far as Aberdeen are concerned we are pretty damn close.

NL is a better manager than both Craig Levein and an unproven Gerrard so as far as I am concerned Hibs can easily at this moment in time operate in looking to be 2nd to 4th. That's what I think and probably Lennon does as well.
I like your analogy of the big picture, and in context of last season quite correct!
Its just a pity our midfield has been somewhat decimated, I'm not sure we are as strong as we were last season, and the other lot appear to have done a lot to close the gap on their competition.
If NL gets and uses money wisely on bringing in players (please not loanee's) we should at least be able to secure top 4 again!!!

[matty_f]

Do folk think that Hibs accounts will show we will have money sitting in the bank doing nothing? I think any available money will be given to NL to spend. I think sometimes because we have signed players who were here last year eg Kamberi and McLaren that they havent cost anything? Those two plus Mallan and Bogdan will be on good wages i would think. Im sure we have money to sign maybe another two, but im not sure we will be sitting with millions in the bank.

Excellent point.

There are a few posts on this thread which are pretty much "apart from the money we've spent, we've not spent any money so the club need to spend some money now", but I think we'll see soon enough that week have spent what we can (and I'm assuming we'll have a couple more players in, by the way).

It's in nobody's interests to hold money back that could go on the pitch.

[Skol]

Ive been a Season Ticket holder for almost 25 years and a regular attender for over 30 years, a sporadic attender befor ethat when my Dad and Uncles could take me.

Ive got to say that bar the time under Mowbray, the last couple of years have been as good as it has ever been and we should enjoy what we have.

There have been some dreadful times to be a Hibby and I am happy with where things are right now

[K-Zazu]

Ive been a Season Ticket holder for almost 25 years and a regular attender for over 30 years, a sporadic attender befor ethat when my Dad and Uncles could take me.

Ive got to say that bar the time under Mowbray, the last couple of years have been as good as it has ever been and we should enjoy what we have.

There have been some dreadful times to be a Hibby and I am happy with where things are right now

Not even the Mcleish team?

[SirDavidsNapper]

I harbour a notion of seeing Hibs challenge for the League title, and I suspect Neil Lennon does too.

I don't think those in positions of power and influence on the Board agree though, and that's where the disconnect between us "bed wetters" and the bean counters lie, IMHO.

Lets be honest. In the best season we've had in my 35 years we couldn't finish above Aberdeen or a Rangers in a state of disarray. We won't challenge for the title unless a rich benefactor ploughs tens of millions in to the playing budget. Look at the money Raners have spent. They'll ultimately still finish as runners up to Celtic. It'll be between us, Aberdeen and Hearts for 3rd and thats the best it can get for us.

[Skol]

Not even the Mcleish team?

Yeah, Ok and add in the Miller team with McCallister, Jackson, Wright and O'Neil

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Probably not relevant anymore, but the team we finished with last season with would have (IMO) beaten Molde and progressed to the next round.

Maybe wouldn't have beaten Zenit given last nights result, but there you are.

[heretoday]

Reference the title of the post:

Yes we do need to spend money. Keep trying to improve the squad and ensure competition for places. That's what it's all about.

[superfurryhibby]

It is relative and regardless of backing and resources how that backing and resource is used is way more important than actually having it.

Rangers Celtic should finish above us providing they signed players who give them the value they paid. As for Aberdeen and Hearts certainly in Hearts case I do not care about there resources we have IMO a better team and as far as Aberdeen are concerned we are pretty damn close.

NL is a better manager than both Craig Levein and an unproven Gerrard so as far as I am concerned Hibs can easily at this moment in time operate in looking to be 2nd to 4th. That's what I think and probably Lennon does as well.


Well obviously of you sign a load of dross then it’s a waste, but actually having to spend to begin with is just a wee bit more important than you suggest. Ask how many tranfer targets have we lost out on to our closest rivals over the past few years, quite a few we’ve been linked with?


I like your analogy of the big picture, and in context of last season quite correct!
Its just a pity our midfield has been somewhat decimated, I'm not sure we are as strong as we were last season, and the other lot appear to have done a lot to close the gap on their competition.
If NL gets and uses money wisely on bringing in players (please not loanee's) we should at least be able to secure top 4 again!!!

Our midfield was the strongest part of the team, the key players have gone. What bigger picture are you seeing? Not sure we are as strong, but fourth is is “at least” ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I harbour a notion of seeing Hibs challenge for the League title, and I suspect Neil Lennon does too.

I don't think those in positions of power and influence on the Board agree though, and that's where the disconnect between us "bed wetters" and the bean counters lie, IMHO....despite us having our biggest ever football budget?

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[djs69]

Getting Scott Allan would be a massive statement, but not sure celtic will be easy to deal with. However money talks, he’d be a player to compliment Mallan, but need at least anothercentre mid

[Scotty Leither]

...despite us having our biggest ever football budget?

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We've sold 2 players and one has moved under freedom of contract. We've made 3 permanent signings and 3 loanees.

We're still short in key areas, most glaringly a rugged forward that the ball will stick to, and one that might just make the difference in games like Sunday's at St Johnstone.

If this is the "biggest ever budget" we've had, it would be nice to see it spent to consolidate where we are and kick us on to bigger and better things.

[CropleyWasGod]

We've sold 2 players and one has moved under freedom of contract. We've made 3 permanent signings and 3 loanees.

We're still short in key areas, most glaringly a rugged forward that the ball will stick to, and one that might just make the difference in games like Sunday's at St Johnstone.

If this is the "biggest ever budget" we've had, it would be nice to see it spent to consolidate where we are and kick us on to bigger and better things.That budget is set by the Board, though, which is my point. They set it, and it's up to the football department whether and how they spend it.



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[HFC 0-7]

This thread is just full of people at polar opposites. The people that are saying we are needing players in key positions quick are correct as we are weaker than last season. Comments from people making out that we as fans need to accept that we will constantly have ups and downs because there are bigger teams out there buying our players have got it wrong in that has to constantly mean ups and downs.

We attracted the mcginns and mcgeouch why can’t we do that again? I am sure that’s what Hibs are trying to do. I am sure Lennon expects us to be able to attract those players to Hibs and if not he will be disappointed! If he is disappointed and he has a vision to build on a successful season why can’t we as fans have the same vision and same feelings.

Fans were disappointed and vented about the draw with stjohnstone, I am sure Lennon expected more and shared his frustrations with the players. Fans were disappointed with getting beat by Molde and the defending, I am sure Lennon and the team were too. I doubt they just said hey ho, molde are better prepared. Lennon has done well so far by, IMO, creating a belief in the team that they can compete with the best, that Hibs will get better. When we fail against those standards he isn’t happy, the team won’t be happy, they don’t accept it, why should fans have to accept it as part of‘supporting hibs’ as some have said on here??

We need to be better, to defend better and to get better players. I am sure Lennon expects that as well.

[Scotty Leither]

That budget is set by the Board, though, which is my point. They set it, and it's up to the football department whether and how they spend it.



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Well, we'll see.

Personally I'm not confident in any major signings being made and I'd love to be proved wrong; but history tells us that our Board never dare to dream, it's just not in their make up.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well, we'll see.

Personally I'm not confident in any major signings being made and I'd love to be proved wrong; but history tells us that our Board never dare to dream, it's just not in their make up.Again... It's not the Board's call whether the money that they have made available is actually spent.

If no "major signings" that are within our budget are made, that's the decision of the football department, not the Board.

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[Scotty Leither]

Again... It's not the Board's call whether the money that they have made available is actually spent.

If no "major signings" are made, that's the decision of the football department, not the Board.

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Nah, sorry disagree - although it is all about degrees of interpretation I suppose and what you class as a "major signing".

I suspect my take on who/what that looks like varies from Petrie and co.

I for one never became conditioned to mediocrity during the many dog days of the last twenty years, and I think with record season ticket sales and a bounty on the Mcginn fee, the bar's been raised a bit in terms of the general expectation around the club.

Just hope the Board feel the same.

[tonyrougier123]

I think we could challenge for the title this season! if celtic are as bad as they where against hearts they certainly wilny skoosh it thats for sure.and aberdeen are in the same boat as us losing players and having to replace.im just throwing the half empty cup away and replacing it with half full cup.infact I think we will skoosh it!!! Mon the cabbage.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nah, sorry disagree - although it is all about degrees of interpretation I suppose and what you class as a "major signing".

I suspect my take on who/what that looks like varies from Petrie and co.

I for one never became conditioned to mediocrity during the many dog days of the last twenty years, and I think with record season ticket sales and a bounty on the Mcginn fee, the bar's been raised a bit in terms of the general expectation around the club.

Just hope the Board feel the same.

As they have set the biggest ever football budget, I'd suggest they do feel the same.

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[jacomo]

I harbour a notion of seeing Hibs challenge for the League title, and I suspect Neil Lennon does too.

I don't think those in positions of power and influence on the Board agree though, and that's where the disconnect between us "bed wetters" and the bean counters lie, IMHO.


Nonsense. Everyone wants Hibs to keep progressing. LD is quite clear on that. But without a magic money tree we can only move so fast.

The problem with the bed wetters is that every time there’s a bump in the road they start panicking. That’s the real difference.

[BSEJVT]

Nah, sorry disagree - although it is all about degrees of interpretation I suppose and what you class as a "major signing".

I suspect my take on who/what that looks like varies from Petrie and co.

I for one never became conditioned to mediocrity during the many dog days of the last twenty years, and I think with record season ticket sales and a bounty on the Mcginn fee, the bar's been raised a bit in terms of the general expectation around the club.

Just hope the Board feel the same.

Why wouldn't the board feel the same?

The constraint they operate under that none of the football guru's on this site do is the long term sustainability of the club.

The club isn't yours or mine, its for the supporters today and all of our tomorrow's.

Whatever we do needs to be sustainable now and going forward.

You only need to look at the drop off in crowds from the days of Mowbray's upward spiral to relegation under Butcher, to see the potential impact a run of bad results can have.

Yet you still need to keep paying the players who are contracted to you and moving them on isn't easy.

The board I am sure will plan to have a sustainable budget based on a much more conservative view, than the one they currently see, of the financial situation going forward.

Players wage costs and for that matter the football budget has rocketed since LD & GC came in and will continue to go up massively this season

We will make further signings, I have no doubt and we need to, but they wont change the wage structure or cost huge fees, we need to develop our own talent.

I loved McGinn & Mcgeouch but neither were the stars they became when they signed.

We may need to set up a base camp (far further along the road than the last one) and then consolidate for a season before tackling the summit again.

Scottish Football is awash with clubs who have (some on more than one occasion) or are suffering near liquidation events.

Since STF got on board we haven't been close to that.

I guarantee you that whatever any board spends it isn't enough for some its supporters. Loook at the cash Man U have poured in over recent seasons, it guarantees nothing. They are a very distant vision in City's mirrors.

They might not be popular, but I have every confidence in our board to do the right thing in the long term

[SideBurns]

When fans use the phrase 'finished article' they are longing for a Utopian ideal that isn't achievable. As we have seen, as soon as we get close to having the team we all desire clubs with more money, paying much higher wages, come in for our best players. Hibs are always going to be evolving, all we can do is enjoy the fitba on show when it's good to watch (as per the last few seasons).

I detect that some of the anxiety is connected to Hearts good start. The reality is that somewhere down the line they were going to get their act together and it looks like that may be happening (although it's early days). There's nothing to fear in this - since we're both big clubs in the Scottish context, of a comparable size, Hibs & Hearts should be fighting it out in the top half of the league with derby wins going either way. Part of their difficulty in recent years has been that many of their fans seem unable to accept that they should ever lose to us, and so their world falls apart after one derby defeat - never mind the recent run which lasted years!

[neil7908]

As they have set the biggest ever football budget, I'd suggest they do feel the same.

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The "biggest football budget ever" stuff is a bit misleading imo. How much is it? How much more than last season (£1 extra would make this statement true but given the additional income, be very disappointing). How much is actually going to new signings and player salaries and how much to the off the field stuff that was mentioned by LD?

I'm not having a go at the board BTW but equally I think people are banding that statement around a fair bit without being able to really say what it means.

[Bearders]

The "biggest football budget ever" stuff is a bit misleading imo. How much is it? How much more than last season (£1 extra would make this statement true but given the additional income, be very disappointing). How much is actually going to new signings and player salaries and how much to the off the field stuff that was mentioned by LD?

I'm not having a go at the board BTW but equally I think people are banding that statement around a fair bit without being able to really say what it means.

:top marks

[Dancehibs]

As they have set the biggest ever football budget, I'd suggest they do feel the same.

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Or it’s marketing spin. Fans don’t know how much is allocated to first team wages and transfer fees

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Well we need to get another midfielder in, Lennon has already said that it would take £20k a week player to replace McGinn.

That’s not going to happen so we are going to have to find a future replacement.

I believe we still have a top 6 squad, would be nice to get a defensive midfielder and potentially Scott Allan. We still have Agyepong and McGregor to get into the squad when fit/visa progressed.

[madhatter]

Well we need to get another midfielder in, Lennon has already said that it would take £20k a week player to replace McGinn.

That’s not going to happen so we are going to have to find a future replacement.

I believe we still have a top 6 squad, would be nice to get a defensive midfielder and potentially Scott Allan. We still have Agyepong and McGregor to get into the squad when fit/visa progressed.

Imagine if Agyepong’s visa application is rejected...

[Gordy M]

Thing is....we have spent money this window. If you look at who we have signed and where we have signed them from....they will all be on good wages id imagine. Added to that we have paid fees for at least three players as well.

Loans
Bogdan - EPL
Hyndman - EPL
Agyepong- EPL(if he eventually signs)
McLaren - Bundesliga

Signed
Mallan - Campionship - fee paid
Kamberi - Swiss top league - fee paid
Horgan - Championship - fee paid

Id say our outlay has been pretty big compared to previous years and im sure the wage bill has gone up. Think its a bit unfair to say the team isnt being invested in.

[BoomtownHibees]

I think the squad we have will have us comfortably in the top 6. The time to be spending money is in January - didn't work out to badly for us last season.

We did a lot better in Europe than we expected. The goal for the season has to be to qualify for Europe again, and have another go. It's the only hope clubs like us have of making serious money.

If we have money to spend, the time to do it is now, not January.

Yes it worked out well last year but imagine we had that team from the 2nd half of the season for the full season!!

That’s what we should be aiming for imo

[K-Zazu]

Thing is....we have spent money this window. If you look at who we have signed and where we have signed them from....they will all be on good wages id imagine. Added to that we have paid fees for at least three players as well.

Loans
Bogdan - EPL
Hyndman - EPL
Agyepong- EPL(if he eventually signs)
McLaren - Bundesliga

Signed
Mallan - Campionship - fee paid
Kamberi - Swiss top league - fee paid
Horgan - Championship - fee paid

Id say our outlay has been pretty big compared to previous years and im sure the wage bill has gone up. Think its a bit unfair to say the team isnt being invested in.

Maclaren doesn’t play in the Bundesliga but good post

[Gordy M]

Maclaren doesn’t play in the Bundesliga but good post

Ah right....sorry thought they were bottom end of the top league....sure he was still on decent wages:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

The "biggest football budget ever" stuff is a bit misleading imo. How much is it? How much more than last season (£1 extra would make this statement true but given the additional income, be very disappointing). How much is actually going to new signings and player salaries and how much to the off the field stuff that was mentioned by LD?

I'm not having a go at the board BTW but equally I think people are banding that statement around a fair bit without being able to really say what it means.The point of my argument is that the Board is getting the blame for the fact that we've not spent more money on players. That's unfair IMO. We really don't know that it's their fault.

Why not blame NL and GC for not identifying players, or for not being willing to spend the money?

Other clubs for asking for too much?

Players for asking for too much?

LD for not getting particular deals over the line?

The Board are an easy target here, and I think they may be getting criticised unfairly.

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[Dancehibs]

The point of my argument is that the Board is getting the blame for the fact that we've not spent more money on players. That's unfair IMO. We really don't know that it's their fault.

Why not blame NL and GC for not identifying players, or for not being willing to spend the money?

Other clubs for asking for too much?

Players for asking for too much?

LD for not getting particular deals over the line?

The Board are an easy target here, and I think they may be getting criticised unfairly.

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LD uses every opportunity to tell us how good the football department is. A replacement for Dylan should have been signed before now. Failure to do that and having a weaker squad than last year has resulted in us not beating Molde.

[MacGruber]

Thing is....we have spent money this window. If you look at who we have signed and where we have signed them from....they will all be on good wages id imagine. Added to that we have paid fees for at least three players as well.

Loans
Bogdan - EPL
Hyndman - EPL
Agyepong- EPL(if he eventually signs)
McLaren - Bundesliga

Signed
Mallan - Campionship - fee paid
Kamberi - Swiss top league - fee paid
Horgan - Championship - fee paid

Id say our outlay has been pretty big compared to previous years and im sure the wage bill has gone up. Think its a bit unfair to say the team isnt being invested in.

Good post.

Though for balance - we have lost more than we have brought in so yes there is an outlay on wages but we were paying wages before to the guys that have left too so how much more are we paying on waged now? I'd suggest not a great deal more really

[w pilton hibby]

Greg Stewart has been told he can find a new club.

Released from Birmingham.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-13097793

[Heisenberg]

Greg Stewart has been told he can find a new club.

Released from Birmingham.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-13097793

St Mirren were rumoured to be interested earlier in the summer. Would be surprised to see him back at Aberdeen after not doing much for them.

[calumhibee1]

Greg Stewart has been told he can find a new club.

Released from Birmingham.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-13097793

Not for me. We’re fairly well stocked in the areas he play and he’s also pretty gash.

[Borderhibbie76]

The "biggest football budget ever" stuff is a bit misleading imo. How much is it? How much more than last season (£1 extra would make this statement true but given the additional income, be very disappointing). How much is actually going to new signings and player salaries and how much to the off the field stuff that was mentioned by LD?

I'm not having a go at the board BTW but equally I think people are banding that statement around a fair bit without being able to really say what it means.It was a huge mistake by LD - and she doesn't make many to be fair - coming out with this comment. She would have been best keeping quiet about that as it's been the stick used to beat the board all summer long and probably gave us all a bit of unrealistic expectations. As it stands this biggest budget ever summer has become a bit of a damp squib, nothing to do with some of the excellent signings we've made but what we've lost since end of last season.

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[hhibs]

LD uses every opportunity to tell us how good the football department is. A replacement for Dylan should have been signed before now. Failure to do that and having a weaker squad than last year has resulted in us not beating Molde.



Think that is a valid point.

[hhibs]

Or it’s marketing spin. Fans don’t know how much is allocated to first team wages and transfer fees



Indeed ,it was a pretty stupid thing to say,made a rod for their back,if you pardon the expression.

A platitude such as "good position to be very competitive" would have been wiser.

It would have been better to have said something less "spinning ", have this board not learned we can smell ***** and see spin. IMO



:flag::flag::flag:

[BoomtownHibees]

Indeed ,it was a pretty stupid thing to say,made a rod for their back,if you pardon the expression.

A platitude such as "good position to be very competitive" would have been wiser.

It would have been better to have said something less "spinning ", have this board not learned we can smell ***** and see spin. IMO



:flag::flag::flag:

There were season tickets to sell

[superfurryhibby]

Thing is....we have spent money this window. If you look at who we have signed and where we have signed them from....they will all be on good wages id imagine. Added to that we have paid fees for at least three players as well.

Loans
Bogdan - EPL
Hyndman - EPL
Agyepong- EPL(if he eventually signs)
McLaren - Bundesliga

Signed
Mallan - Campionship - fee paid
Kamberi - Swiss top league - fee paid
Horgan - Championship - fee paid

Id say our outlay has been pretty big compared to previous years and im sure the wage bill has gone up. Think its a bit unfair to say the team isnt being invested in.

Out

Loans: Allan

Signed players gone-

McGinn
McGeouch

We have definitely invested in players, but the balance of who’s come in seems wrong in some areas of the pitch.

Did we really need Bogdan?

Mallan/ Hyndman play in similar area.

Mallan looks like he will be an asset, but he’s a work in progress. Sometimes loses posession too easily and he has drifted out of games, he adds something with his dead ball work, but thus far isn’t close to offering the quality of Dylan or McGinn.

Agyepong/Horgan and Boyle. Boyle is a known quantity, he offers a lot out wide in a five man midfield. How do we fit Boyle, Horgan ( who you must assume is intended as a starter) and Agyepong into the side, given we also have two very good full backs in Gray and Stevenson?

I think we could be doing with shifting some players on and would list Slivka, Swanson and Bartley as first team squad players who could go. Given where we are now I’m surprised they are all still here.

Disappointed that there is clear work to be done on the balance of the squad.

Given the personnel changes to central midfield I thought we might see a change of formation and tactics, we just don’t have the quality to play three central midfielders in the shape of Bartley, Slivka and Mallan. Thus far that hasn’t happened.

Is there any obvious strategy at work here, a bit baffled by it and I’ve been advocating patience throughout the preseason and early games.

Record season ticket sales won’t continue unless we deliver. There is expectation and it is easy to see that failure to carry on progressing will just as easily lead to crowds returning to the usual levels. I’m a bit perturbed by it and can’t see any masterplan at work. The idea of investing at East Mains when the playing side isn’t where it should be would be a big mistake. We need to see success on the field this season.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This thread is just full of people at polar opposites. The people that are saying we are needing players in key positions quick are correct as we are weaker than last season. Comments from people making out that we as fans need to accept that we will constantly have ups and downs because there are bigger teams out there buying our players have got it wrong in that has to constantly mean ups and downs.

We attracted the mcginns and mcgeouch why can’t we do that again? I am sure that’s what Hibs are trying to do. I am sure Lennon expects us to be able to attract those players to Hibs and if not he will be disappointed! If he is disappointed and he has a vision to build on a successful season why can’t we as fans have the same vision and same feelings.

Fans were disappointed and vented about the draw with stjohnstone, I am sure Lennon expected more and shared his frustrations with the players. Fans were disappointed with getting beat by Molde and the defending, I am sure Lennon and the team were too. I doubt they just said hey ho, molde are better prepared. Lennon has done well so far by, IMO, creating a belief in the team that they can compete with the best, that Hibs will get better. When we fail against those standards he isn’t happy, the team won’t be happy, they don’t accept it, why should fans have to accept it as part of‘supporting hibs’ as some have said on here??

We need to be better, to defend better and to get better players. I am sure Lennon expects that as well.

The points addressed in your first two paragraphs go directly to what I said in my comments, so let me clarify. I was not saying that there should never be an aspiration to consistently have a team on the park reaching the heights of the Mowbray team or our team of the last few seasons, that should always be the aim. But the truth is that all you need to do is look at the 140 odd year history of this club to know that the chances of such a thing happening are extremely slim.

Not only does this club historically lose its best players within a few seasons of them rising to prominence, it also loses its best managers in the same way. McLeish … put together a decent side, gone. Mowbray … put together a decent side, gone. Stubbs … put together a decent side and won us the Scottish cup, gone.

I am not saying that we should meekly accept the body blows that such events land on the club and not strive to have a system in place that enables us to quickly replace players and managers we lose with people of the same quality, that goes without saying and the club have said more than once recently that that is exactly the system they aspire to.
But the hard facts of the situation are this …. if you have a support demanding an instant fix to these problems and going into meltdown when it doesn't happen viewing it as a failure of everybody at the club from the owner right down to the under 10s coaches and refusing to accept that the reality of the situation is that it is just not always possible to replace the quality you lose with managers or players who are as good, what you end up with is a club followed by a bunch of fair weather fans who spit the dummy and walk away as soon as their unrealistic demands aren't met.

That's the difference. Its not that we or the club shouldn't aspire to great football played consistently season after season which brings us a cup every three or four years, we always should. But we have to accept that in today's football environment for clubs like us that is incredibly difficult, bordering on impossible, to achieve … we weren't able to achieve that in a far less demanding environment prior to huge TV money being a factor in what players were available to us, how much more difficult is it now when clubs like Salford City can pay more than our third richest club is willing or able to pay.

In short ( you'll be pleased to hear :greengrin ) I'm not saying its a case of shrugging your shoulders and saying what's the point? and I don't think anybody who agreed with my post is saying that either. Its accepting that there is always going to be tough times no matter what we do and sticking with the club through them … because that's the reality of following a club like Hibs, it always has been and it always will be.