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View Full Version : CANCELLED - SS Relocation On Sunday



Since1875Hibs
14-08-2018, 09:13 AM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875

Steve-O
14-08-2018, 09:14 AM
Poor form. That FF lower being half empty spoils the look of the place on TV. With a singing / standing section it could look so much better

makaveli1875
14-08-2018, 09:19 AM
Poor form. That FF lower being half empty spoils the look of the place on TV. With a singing / standing section it could look so much

Have to agree , the FF lower is 1 of the focal points of the stadium on TV and all you see is empty seats .

Blaster
14-08-2018, 09:19 AM
Hopefully something that could be arranged properly with the club for the quarter final 👍

blackpoolhibs
14-08-2018, 09:19 AM
While i think its where the singing section should be, i agree with the club here. There will be people who still sit in that area who will have their vision restricted, should have been done with consultation with the club.

Something the fans rep and the singing section might be able to come together and resolve should we progress to the next round and get a home game?

BegbieHSC
14-08-2018, 09:23 AM
Thanks for sharing. Quite concerned by the apparent lack of commitment to dialogue from the club’s perspective.

As for ‘moving people’ from section 18? Really unsure how the club could even comprehend that strategy. Are they just going to not bother selling at all now in FF lower?

Thank you for your efforts.

SRHibs
14-08-2018, 09:39 AM
While i think its where the singing section should be, i agree with the club here. There will be people who still sit in that area who will have their vision restricted, should have been done with consultation with the club.

Something the fans rep and the singing section might be able to come together and resolve should we progress to the next round and get a home game?

Yep, if Since1875 can’t get correspondence from the club after numerous tries then surely the reps exist to bridge the gap. They don’t exactly seem like a proactive pair though.

Chuck Rhoades
14-08-2018, 09:41 AM
Shame. Really shaped up to be a great day. The club are happy to really push the marketing bus when it comes to the group - Time For Heroes, all the ticket advertisements etc but on the other hand appear to disagree with our approach? A face to face sit down would help. Time for the fan reps to bridge the gap as posted abovr.

makaveli1875
14-08-2018, 09:45 AM
Thanks for sharing. Quite concerned by the apparent lack of commitment to dialogue from the club’s perspective.

As for ‘moving people’ from section 18? Really unsure how the club could even comprehend that strategy. Are they just going to not bother selling at all now in FF lower?

Thank you for your efforts.

The club is not covering itself in glory with this , pretty shocking tbh

Dancehibs
14-08-2018, 09:46 AM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875
This is very disappointing to read. Someone should be getting a bolocking at ER. The group seemed to have a good relationship with Greg mailer. Hopefully as people have suggested fans reps can get all parties together and resolve this

1van Sprou7e
14-08-2018, 09:52 AM
Honestly pretty shocked to read this, terrible form from the club

Diclonius
14-08-2018, 09:54 AM
Seems as though it's now club policy for Section 18 to be perpetually empty.

we are hibs
14-08-2018, 09:56 AM
The whole ticketing side of the club is a bit of a farce just now in all honesty. I get the people who work there are trying hard but there clearly isn't enough staff. Every time I have phoned the ticket office this year I have yet to get through. And things like this just highlights the lack of communication even more. It's embarrassing for a club of our size tbh

wookie70
14-08-2018, 09:56 AM
Surely you are as entitled to buy seats after the season ticket holding period has ended. Are you saying they are stopping individuals buying in that area or they are blocking you reserving an area. If it is the former the club are in the wrong imo if it is the latter why should you have preference over other supporters.

Carheenlea
14-08-2018, 09:57 AM
Given the earache the club got from disappointed fans who had to move from long time ST seats in the FF to accommodate the 1875 group, it’s understandable that they will be reluctant facilitate a move again, even if it’s just for one game.

California-Hibs
14-08-2018, 09:58 AM
Very disappointed to read that. That's a poor show from whoever at Hibs has made that decision.

Since90+2
14-08-2018, 09:59 AM
Disappointing decision by the club. As has been mentioned the FF lower is half empty most games and will probably be about a third full for this game.

The club are missing a trick here by not even trialing it IMO however I get the impression they are quite content having the group up in the corner and out of sight IMO.

Since1875Hibs
14-08-2018, 09:59 AM
Surely you are as entitled to buy seats after the season ticket holding period has ended. Are you saying they are stopping individuals buying in that area or they are blocking you reserving an area. If it is the former the club are in the wrong imo if it is the latter why should you have preference over other supporters.

Both. Whole Lower tier is now blocked from booking completely, tickets bought are cancelled and a threat was made to move anyone out of here if we did not comply.

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 09:59 AM
Yep, if Since1875 can’t get correspondence from the club after numerous tries then surely the reps exist to bridge the gap. They don’t exactly seem like a proactive pair though.

That’s a very unfair thing to say to be honest, from my experience Frank is very visible on match days around the ground as is Tracey. Tracey is also very active online and I know she sorts ticketing issues for people pretty much daily in amongst everything else. She interacts on a number of different fan sites on all social media platforms, not really sure what more she could do if I’m honest.

tartanhibee
14-08-2018, 10:01 AM
It would be nice to hear hibs point of view on the matter. Always 2 sides to every story but currently looking bad on the clubs behalf.

Kaff
14-08-2018, 10:02 AM
I don't know the time frame that has taken place but if the Singing section took it on themselves to move en masse to a new area then perhaps they should consider how they would have felt if the club, without consultation, decided that they would move them for one game to an area considered unsuitable for themselves?

As has been said the actual move of the SS to behind the goals has great number of positives and so long as the club made provision for a like for like (cost wise) family section then i would agree wholeheartedly with it.

We are FF season ticket holders and have graduated from 2 x £25 to now having one as a youth ticket and so far this season the 9 yr old with the £25 ticket has been on £70 summer camp, full kit, training gear and school equipment adding up to ~£160 from the shop.
These kids are hooked and it has been a large part down to having these seats, we started with them in the season after relegation as there was a big cry for sticking by the club, i'd be sickened to lose the area to blowhards wanting to come along now we're enjoying a period of success.
Unfortunately we can't make every game but we do make sure that on the Friday our tickets are released to the club for resale.

Juniper Greens
14-08-2018, 10:04 AM
It would be nice to hear hibs point of view on the matter. Always 2 sides to every story but currently looking bad on the clubs behalf.

Would have to agree with this. From the outside looking in, until now, S1875 and the club seem to have worked together well. With hindsight, S1875 maybe should have given the club a heads up, to maintain the good relationship all round.

wookie70
14-08-2018, 10:05 AM
Both. Whole Lower tier is now blocked from booking completely, tickets bought are cancelled and a threat was made to move anyone out of here if we did not comply.

That seems very odd by the club. The lower area is a family section so perhaps they were trying to maintain that but having sat there for a number of years walk ups frequently destroyed the family side, so did some of the ST holders mind you. I'd like to hear the club's reasoning as for a one off game as far as I am concerned you should be entitled to organise yourselves to sit anywhere in the ground and have an equal chance of tickets as anyone else.

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 10:08 AM
This is very disappointing to read. Someone should be getting a bolocking at ER. The group seemed to have a good relationship with Greg mailer. Hopefully as people have suggested fans reps can get all parties together and resolve this

Greig was very pro-active and encouraging when it came to improving the match day experience at E.R regularly hosting fans consultations to see where he could help.

His replacement Laura doesn’t seem to have much interest in the fans if I’m brutally honest.

SirDavidsNapper
14-08-2018, 10:08 AM
I thought this was a very interesting and good idea by the SS. Very disappointed to hear the club have blocked it.

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 10:11 AM
Surely you are as entitled to buy seats after the season ticket holding period has ended. Are you saying they are stopping individuals buying in that area or they are blocking you reserving an area. If it is the former the club are in the wrong imo if it is the latter why should you have preference over other supporters.

By the looks of things Since 1875 bought around 90 tickets for that section which the club have now stated they’ll refund. Bang out of order.

eastcoasthibby
14-08-2018, 10:11 AM
While i think its where the singing section should be, i agree with the club here. There will be people who still sit in that area who will have their vision restricted, should have been done with consultation with the club.

Something the fans rep and the singing section might be able to come together and resolve should we progress to the next round and get a home game?

If they had bought tickets at the back of that section whose view would it have impeded then ? ...I would like to hear Hibs view on the singing section and their relevance/importance to the club and atmosphere generated.
Also if they are going to work on some plan with regarda to properly manage the FFLower in terms of the amount child seasons bought for that area and frequently just not used ..are they monitoring the non use and what seats are being put back in for re-distribution when not in use ? And are the prices just too cheap and subsequently too attractive for people not too buy on thebasis they might only be used 2,3 times a season ?
whatever the position, its an ongoing issue in numerous threads and conversation but also in reality for us moving forward as a club.

Kaff
14-08-2018, 10:11 AM
That seems very odd by the club. The lower area is a family section so perhaps they were trying to maintain that but having sat there for a number of years walk ups frequently destroyed the family side, so did some of the ST holders mind you. I'd like to hear the club's reasoning as for a one off game as far as I am concerned you should be entitled to organise yourselves to sit anywhere in the ground and have an equal chance of tickets as anyone else.

I agree with your description of it as not entirely a family section especially on cup games etc.
Never had bother with our kids in there and as someone else said they're craning their necks to see what the boys (and girls) with the drum are doing. Indeed they were delighted to see them turn up at McDiarmid on Sunday

blackpoolhibs
14-08-2018, 10:27 AM
If they had bought tickets at the back of that section whose view would it have impeded then ? ...I would like to hear Hibs view on the singing section and their relevance/importance to the club and atmosphere generated.
Also if they are going to work on some plan with regarda to properly manage the FFLower in terms of the amount child seasons bought for that area and frequently just not used ..are they monitoring the non use and what seats are being put back in for re-distribution when not in use ? And are the prices just too cheap and subsequently too attractive for people not too buy on thebasis they might only be used 2,3 times a season ?
whatever the position, its an ongoing issue in numerous threads and conversation but also in reality for us moving forward as a club.

That did not happen though, and there will be people in that section who will not be able to see the game because of folk standing up. There's no getting away from this, and as much as i think this is exactly the place the singing section should be, it needs to be done properly with proper dialogue between both sides and probably the fans reps involved too.

Heedersnvolleys
14-08-2018, 10:33 AM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875

Please keep up the good work you are doing and hopefully one day you will get this area as your home.

Oscar T Grouch
14-08-2018, 10:39 AM
This sounds like a job for a person like a supporters liaison officer or a fan rep. If only we had something like that in place 🤔
I’m actually on the clubs side here atm but I do think they should be taking the lead to sort this problem out because it’s not going to go away and it will cause friction if it’s not sorted. Where the singing section is is not ideal but the ideal place is occupied, however sparcly with youngsters

mentalhibee
14-08-2018, 10:43 AM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875

Poor show from Hibs, I’d like to see the signing section moved back to the east as the atmosphere hasn’t been the same since the move.

Since90+2
14-08-2018, 10:46 AM
If they had bought tickets at the back of that section whose view would it have impeded then ? ...I would like to hear Hibs view on the singing section and their relevance/importance to the club and atmosphere generated.
Also if they are going to work on some plan with regarda to properly manage the FFLower in terms of the amount child seasons bought for that area and frequently just not used ..are they monitoring the non use and what seats are being put back in for re-distribution when not in use ? And are the prices just too cheap and subsequently too attractive for people not too buy on thebasis they might only be used 2,3 times a season ?
whatever the position, its an ongoing issue in numerous threads and conversation but also in reality for us moving forward as a club.

I said it previously but £25 is just too cheap IMO. By all means encourage families to attend with lower prices but it looks as though these seats are being bought just incase a child ever wants to attend and at 25 quid it's a tiny outlay, if they were £60 or £70 (which is still great value) it might stop people buying them and hardly ever used.

jgl07
14-08-2018, 10:46 AM
It's hardly surprising that the move was blocked.

It is a weekend match and in the Family Section.

We used to have five tickets on the back row of that area with three children (initially) aged 8, 13 and 15. You can imagine we would have been delighted if a group set up in front of us standing throughout.

It all seemed like a very crass move in the first place to announce this without consulting the club.

lord bunberry
14-08-2018, 10:55 AM
It's hardly surprising that the move was blocked.

It is a weekend match and in the Family Section.

We used to have five tickets on the back row of that area with three children (initially) aged 8, 13 and 15. You can imagine we would have been delighted if a group set up in front of us standing throughout.

It all seemed like a very crass move in the first place to announce this without consulting the club.
They tried and the club didn’t respond. This was a trial for one game in a stand that at the very best would be half full. I’m sure there would be plenty empty seats for people to move to if their view was restricted.

marinello59
14-08-2018, 10:57 AM
This sounds like a job for a person like a supporters liaison officer or a fan rep. If only we had something like that in place 🤔
I’m actually on the clubs side here atm but I do think they should be taking the lead to sort this problem out because it’s not going to go away and it will cause friction if it’s not sorted. Where the singing section is is not ideal but the ideal place is occupied, however sparcly with youngsters

To be fair to the club they moved long standing season ticket holders out of the section currently occupied by the singing section , made provision for the drummer and banners and gave or did give them special priority for away games so they have made a lot of effort already. . Hopefully after further discussion both sides can come to some sort of compromise here.

Kaff
14-08-2018, 11:09 AM
They tried and the club didn’t respond. This was a trial for one game in a stand that at the very best would be half full. I’m sure there would be plenty empty seats for people to move to if their view was restricted.

My assumption is that they've tried to speak to the club retrospectively?
It seemed to me they put a call out to buy seats behind the goal and after the club blocked the move they have since tried to start dialogue.
If that is correct then I feel the supporters were initially wrong and my earlier point about their view on being moved by the club without notice stands.
I would say that the club should be speaking to them now they have refused this move and i imagine that will happen and hopefully as soon as they can. Perhaps waiting on direction from higher up the club than fans liason officer?

lord bunberry
14-08-2018, 11:12 AM
My assumption is that they've tried to speak to the club retrospectively?
It seemed to me they put a call out to buy seats behind the goal and after the club blocked the move they have since tried to start dialogue.
If that is correct then I feel the supporters were initially wrong and my earlier point about their view on being moved by the club without notice stands.
I would say that the club should be speaking to them now they have refused this move and i imagine that will happen and hopefully as soon as they can. Perhaps waiting on direction from higher up the club than fans liason officer?
That’s not my interpretation of things. It sounded to me like they had tried to speak to the club, didn’t get a response so took matters into their own hands. I could be wrong though.

Kaff
14-08-2018, 11:17 AM
That’s not my interpretation of things. It sounded to me like they had tried to speak to the club, didn’t get a response so took matters into their own hands. I could be wrong though.

Ok, my view is the opposite but won't know unless someone states categorically of course.

cabbageandribs1875
14-08-2018, 11:23 AM
They tried and the club didn’t respond. This was a trial for one game in a stand that at the very best would be half full. I’m sure there would be plenty empty seats for people to move to if their view was restricted.



no surprise there

Hibby70
14-08-2018, 11:27 AM
Doesn't seem that either side have gone about this correctly as far as I can see.

PatHead
14-08-2018, 11:28 AM
Yep, if Since1875 can’t get correspondence from the club after numerous tries then surely the reps exist to bridge the gap. They don’t exactly seem like a proactive pair though.
Have 1875 tried to contact the reps?

Kaff
14-08-2018, 11:34 AM
'We have simply purchased available tickets in this section thos evening and encourage other likeminded fans to do the same. We’ve done this off our own accord. We reguarly engage with the club on a number of matters'

The above is quoted from a reply made by Since1875' to Hibbyradge asking if they had contacted the club.
Edit. On the original thread

I'm not against their plan but just don't want the club to be dragged into a situation where they are cast as the villains due to a breakdown in communication not of their making.
Time for some folk to cool their heels imo

BroxburnHibee
14-08-2018, 11:35 AM
I really think your group made an own goal by moving up there.

I think they were uncomfortable when you based yourself in the east due to everyone standing refusing to sit. Not sure if that still happens in the east though.

I dont get to a lot of games but the 2 ive been to so far this season it seems as if there is still plenty singers in the east probably because that area of the ground is where traditionally the atmosphere has been created.

I commend everyone involved for their efforts and hope you continue to do a lot of great work.

I do feel though now the club know who you all are and have you were they want you then they will do their best to keep you there.

If you all decided to just buy season tickets back in the east would they block that too? I suspect they would.

j'adore hibs
14-08-2018, 11:54 AM
Whilst I agree the singing section need to be positioned somewhere with greater visibility and impact this needs to be facilitated properly between the club, the fans in FF lower and the singing section.
I have been in the FF lower since they introduced the family section taking advantage of what were originally £0 tickets to £25 tickets for my kids. Im now only paying one child price with the other having moved to a youth .
We have central seats with no obstruction from the goal bar , why would we want to move to a less superior view ? Also with more and more season ticket holders I cant see how they club can accommodate moving individuals, even those who are no longer entitled to child/youth tickets .
Lets face it, the remaining seats free for a season ticket aren't the best.

PatHead
14-08-2018, 11:55 AM
That’s not my interpretation of things. It sounded to me like they had tried to speak to the club, didn’t get a response so took matters into their own hands. I could be wrong though.
Think you were a bit unfair on the club earlier then. You stated that they had tried to speak to the club, but you obviously didn't know.

Maybe we should wait until things are clarified before we start blaming people.

Bobby's Cinema
14-08-2018, 12:06 PM
So the club are looking after families with young kids over the section that will come standing obstructing the view of those that aren’t interested. Openly couldn’t care less in fact bragged that their recent actions resulted in the club in trouble with UEFA despite warnings before hand. I’m shocked.

007
14-08-2018, 12:08 PM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875

Just mentioned on the other thread, what about trying section 43?

SaulGoodman
14-08-2018, 12:10 PM
So the club are looking after families with young kids over the section that will come standing obstructing the view of those that aren’t interested. Openly couldn’t care less in fact bragged that their recent actions resulted in the club in trouble with UEFA despite warnings before hand. I’m shocked.

Oh boy this is gonna be good..

WhileTheChief..
14-08-2018, 12:15 PM
Blame all the folk taking advantage of the £25 tickets.

Sooner they are scrapped the better for loads of reasons.

StevieT
14-08-2018, 12:15 PM
I agree with the club here. If I sat in the FF lower (I sit in the upper) I wouldn’t want a group of people taking it upon themselves to stand in front of me and waive the big flags. As for those suggesting people could move, really? In my opinion, the SS were taking this opportunity to say ‘look at us. How good would it be if we were here every game?’ I think the club has done the right thing here

Kaff
14-08-2018, 12:18 PM
Blame all the folk taking advantage of the £25 tickets.

Sooner they are scrapped the better for loads of reasons.

Classic WUM, not helping with the discussion in hand of course

Chuck Rhoades
14-08-2018, 12:18 PM
So the club are looking after families with young kids over the section that will come standing obstructing the view of those that aren’t interested. Openly couldn’t care less in fact bragged that their recent actions resulted in the club in trouble with UEFA despite warnings before hand. I’m shocked.

Fraz, I think we know each other and if so your post is rubbish. The group were at the front at Greece and Hibs confirmed they know who through the flare and ruled the group out. Stick to facts please.

Keith_M
14-08-2018, 12:22 PM
That's really poor from the club.

I can't see any good reason why they'd do that.

WhileTheChief..
14-08-2018, 12:23 PM
Classic WUM, not helping with the discussion in hand of course

Eh? Not at all.

Way too many folk take advantage of it hence the empty seats.

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 12:24 PM
Piss poor.

Bishop Hibee
14-08-2018, 12:33 PM
I said it previously but £25 is just too cheap IMO. By all means encourage families to attend with lower prices but it looks as though these seats are being bought just incase a child ever wants to attend and at 25 quid it's a tiny outlay, if they were £60 or £70 (which is still great value) it might stop people buying them and hardly ever used.

Agree 100%.

As for moving the singing section, won’t happen until we have a downturn in form again and ST sales go down.

BegbieHSC
14-08-2018, 12:44 PM
Motion:

Can we PLEASE stop calling the Singing Section the SS? 😂😂😂

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 12:44 PM
Motion:

Can we PLEASE stop calling the Singing Section the SS? 😂😂😂

Nein

KWJ
14-08-2018, 12:46 PM
That did not happen though, and there will be people in that section who will not be able to see the game because of folk standing up. There's no getting away from this, and as much as i think this is exactly the place the singing section should be, it needs to be done properly with proper dialogue between both sides and probably the fans reps involved too.

Exactly. Saw this coming from the original post stating the intention to move where it said the club hadn't been consulted.

I get that it's got to be frustrating not to have communication from the club but short notice mass changes like this won't help the situation. Be persistent in looking to meet with them for changes

I'd hazard a guess that thebanner at the Rangers game won't have helped your cause.

Tend to agree though, it'd be the best spot.

Nicho87
14-08-2018, 12:46 PM
Get back in the East. Hasn't worked on famous 5

Archie89
14-08-2018, 12:48 PM
Get back in the East. Hasn't worked on famous 5

I think that's the best for everyone.

Alex Trager
14-08-2018, 12:50 PM
I agree with the club here. If I sat in the FF lower (I sit in the upper) I wouldn’t want a group of people taking it upon themselves to stand in front of me and waive the big flags. As for those suggesting people could move, really? In my opinion, the SS were taking this opportunity to say ‘look at us. How good would it be if we were here every game?’ I think the club has done the right thing here

What’s wrong with showing the club that it would be a worthwhile move?

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 12:50 PM
Get back in the East. Hasn't worked on famous 5

Has it not?

BouncerRoss could confirm but I imagine that their numbers have grown a significantly since moving to the North, they have also put on a number of memorable displays and negative incidents associated with the group inside ER have also reduced to pretty much 0.

BegbieHSC
14-08-2018, 12:52 PM
Get back in the East. Hasn't worked on famous 5

Issue is, there’s only one section in the East which can accomadate the size of the Singing Section in its current form, and that’s section 45, and given its right next to a wall, it could have the same acoustic challenges...

Heedersnvolleys
14-08-2018, 12:57 PM
I agree with the club here. If I sat in the FF lower (I sit in the upper) I wouldn’t want a group of people taking it upon themselves to stand in front of me and waive the big flags. As for those suggesting people could move, really? In my opinion, the SS were taking this opportunity to say ‘look at us. How good would it be if we were here every game?’ I think the club has done the right thing here
I am sure you mean ‘look at us this is the best place for us to be’ like they have said all a long. If the seats are free they should have been free to be taken by the group. This is a bunch of very enthusiastic supporters that are season ticket holders that go home and way that do try to create a better experience in a stadium that can lack atmosphere on occasions.

Up until the club intervened this morning there was nothing to stop a bunch of drunken ar$e***** on a stag do taking those seats so what would we prefer.

Any kids I know that go to ER love the SS. Long live the SS.

NAE NOOKIE
14-08-2018, 12:58 PM
I'm not going to utterly slag the club here because this has happened in the week of a huge European tie away from home and they probably would want time to consider all the angles before deciding what to do with this 'Since 1875' experiment. Though simply just shutting the FF lower does seem a bit extreme as a solution, even a temporary one.

I have never hidden my support of the singing section being located in the FF lower, it seems like a no brainer to me, especially given that its no coincidence that practically every ( for want of a better word ) ultra's section around Europe chooses or has gravitated towards an end stand in their respective stadiums. I don't buy into the theory that the East Stand is our traditional singing area either … I've been going to ER since the mid 70s and in that time the most boisterous fans have been in the north end of the main stand and I'm lead to believe ( though a bit before my time ) in the old 'Coo shed'

The East only really came to prominence after it was covered over in the 80s and as the only decent and relatively inexpensive covered area in the stadium it was natural that the more vociferous folk in our support would congregate there. IMO the East as it is now presents too many problems for it ever to be considered as a permanent home for a singing section where folk like to stand during the game and its pretty clear, at least to me, that Hibs are very much of a like mind.

I get the clubs enthusiasm for the idea of a 'family section' but the truth of the matter is that at game after game the large swathes of empty seats in that area is letting us down badly … its the area of the stadium which is most prominent on TV and anybody watching could be forgiven for thinking our claims of crowds of over 15,000 every week are pure hogwash.
Before anybody retorts with a 'who cares what other folk think' comment IMO Hibs should, in fact every club should. In business image is a huge part of selling your product, especially in the face of competition from other businesses selling the same product and Hibs should be making every effort to project ER as a vibrant and colourful place to go and watch football.

Having the most high profile section of the stadium a third empty 80% of the time and compounding the felony by having the most noisy and colourful section of our support hidden away in the gods out of sight of the TV cameras ( not to mention a quarter of the folk in the East stand ) is to my mind nothing short of stupidity. Its even dafter when after rightly boasting about having our best average crowds in 40 years and record season ticket sales the club seem quite happy to leave the home stands at ER looking a third empty to folk who aren't actually inside the stadium.

As I said on the original thread on this subject. I don't see why Hibs cant sell family tickets throughout the West lower, the north end of the East and the FF upper. This would dissipate the empty seats around the stadium, with a good few of them being behind the TV pictures. That would free up the FF lower for a proper and more importantly highly visible singing section, not only to the TV cameras but the other fans in the stadium. I'm also pretty sure that if this proved as popular as I think it would it wouldn't be too difficult to start crowd funding a move to buy 'rail seats' in the fullness of time … I swear here and now that I would happily chuck in £20 to such an initiative and I wouldn't even be part of the singing section, having finally achieved my long term wish to move from the FF lower to the FF upper … the best view in the stadium IMO.

Whatever the case IMO its time this whole situation, which has been running for years now, was put to bed and in the way it always should have been .. give the 'Since 1875' guys what the have always wanted, with the set in absolute stone proviso that once they have made that particular bed they will be made to lie in it, no matter what the outcome. An easy way to encourage growth of the FF lower group would be to strictly enforce the no standing rule in the whole of the East, that should encourage the current crop who still go there to move to where they belong.

lord bunberry
14-08-2018, 01:09 PM
Think you were a bit unfair on the club earlier then. You stated that they had tried to speak to the club, but you obviously didn't know.

Maybe we should wait until things are clarified before we start blaming people.
If you read the op on this thread it states that despite numerous attempts to contact the club they’d had no response. As a result of this they had decided to try and organise something themselves. That to me says they had tried to contact the club. Another poster seems to think this contact was after the decision to sit in the ff lower on Sunday, I thought it meant they had tried to contact the club before, but had no response so decided to go ahead on their own.

HibeeHibernian4
14-08-2018, 01:38 PM
Get back in the East. Hasn't worked on famous 5

In the East, particularly when the singing section were down the front, it worked even less than it did now. People were content to sit on their hands while they sang the songs. At least now, the East have taken it upon themselves to get some songs going. Personally, if the money fell into our laps right now, I'd get all the seats in the Famous Five Lower ripped out and converted into a safe standing section.

MB62
14-08-2018, 01:41 PM
I have major concerns about this. I normally sit in section 15 WSU but for Sunday, we have moved over to section 14, WSU. It was in my thoughts that I might start singing, but only IF we were winning. I am now a bit worried the club will get wind of this and when I turn up on Sunday, they will have cancelled my tickets and moved me back to section 15 WSU :worried:

BegbieHSC
14-08-2018, 01:46 PM
I have major concerns about this. I normally sit in section 15 WSU but for Sunday, we have moved over to section 14, WSU. It was in my thoughts that I might start singing, but only IF we were winning. I am now a bit worried the club will get wind of this and when I turn up on Sunday, they will have cancelled my tickets and moved me back to section 15 WSU :worried:

😂😂.
Shocking state of affairs!

Moulin Yarns
14-08-2018, 01:58 PM
Why did the singing section not just try to move down to section 20? Immediately below the designated area, presumably also not many seats taken. A lot less controversial I would have thought.

Juniper Greens
14-08-2018, 02:01 PM
If you read the op on this thread it states that despite numerous attempts to contact the club they’d had no response. As a result of this they had decided to try and organise something themselves. That to me says they had tried to contact the club. Another poster seems to think this contact was after the decision to sit in the ff lower on Sunday, I thought it meant they had tried to contact the club before, but had no response so decided to go ahead on their own.

It doesn't say that actually, it said that they are no further forward. There was also nothing on the original thread suggesting anything to back up what you are saying above.

Let's be fair to the club, they are in Norway this week and trying to get a work permit for a player, and that's just the stuff we know about! I think it's been an unfortunate turn of events, but I don't think our SS have gone about this in the best way. They should have waited for approval from the club, and if it didn't arrive in time, re-plan for another game.

Whilst I would prefer the SS to be in the FFL as well, you have to feel for the families that are in there at the moment. Yet, some seem to abuse the family tickets, but I'm pretty certain that some don't and use them exactly how Hibs intended. This is a consequence of success. Hopefully over time we can sell out year on year, then build a nice new safe standing corner for the SS.

NAE NOOKIE
14-08-2018, 02:04 PM
In the East, particularly when the singing section were down the front, it worked even less than it did now. People were content to sit on their hands while they sang the songs. At least now, the East have taken it upon themselves to get some songs going. Personally, if the money fell into our laps right now, I'd get all the seats in the Famous Five Lower ripped out and converted into a safe standing section.

Absolutely agree mate. IMO this is all part of a wider issue in football these days. Clubs are so busy pandering to corporate fans and the middle class 'are we going to the football this weekend father? … not if we are going to hear any more of that nasty language we heard last time son' demographic, that they have lost their way when it comes to the very thing that is a huge contributor to the matchday experience and that is the atmosphere.

I never thought I would see the day where the USA a land where corporate is king and sport is very much a business would be kicking the arse of Scottish football clubs when it comes to appreciating what atmosphere means to a football match … and not surprisingly I'm thinking of Portland Timbers here, where the club actively encourage their 'ultras' and bend over backwards to accommodate them, even to the extent of providing sand buckets for them to let off flares in. I'm not suggesting Hibs do that, but compared to them we are falling down big time by for some reason failing to recognise the massive importance atmosphere has in not only selling the club as an exciting way to pass a weekend but in driving the team forward on the park.

Hibs said at the very start of the Dempster revolution that every aspect of the club would be looked at in order to improve and that it was to our peril if we failed to recognise that even the smallest thing improved by 1% could mean the difference between success and failure ( the hugely successful British cycling team taking this very approach being cited at the time ) IMO Hibs are flying in the very face of that supposed 'credo' by failing to properly address this situation ….. nobody is saying the atmosphere at ER hasn't improved in the last few years, but it could be made a whole lot better and if you ask me doing that would be an improvement to something that is far from a small matter for the future good health and hopefully growing success of the club.

davhibby
14-08-2018, 02:16 PM
The best way to sort it would be to make the £25 ST's cat B tickets in the South then make the end sections of the East/West stands the other family section areas. That would be enough to sort out most who currently have a seat in the FF Lower. Surely something like this could be sorted out with a little work and discussion. Hopefully the club will at least have a chat with the since 1875 guys at some point

SRHibs
14-08-2018, 02:17 PM
The best way to sort it would be to make the £25 ST's cat B tickets in the South then make the end sections of the East/West stands the other family section areas. That would be enough to sort out most who currently have a seat in the FF Lower. Surely something like this could be sorted out with a little work and discussion. Hopefully the club will at least have a chat with the since 1875 guys at some point

That’s a really good idea. I guess the main issue would be that these £25 tickets are accompanied by an adult who are likely want to go to the big games. Maybe just give them first dibs on class Atickets when they go on sale?

Onceinawhile
14-08-2018, 02:28 PM
I wonder if the singing section could swap for an ff lower section. For example, my sons and I all sit in the furthest West section of the ff lower.

What's to stop everyone there decanting to the 1875 section and vice versa? I know season tickets are more expensive up top, but surely there could be some leeway to achieve this?

Can't be many people in the bottom tier need the lift. If you use one of the side sections as well it should mean no blocking of views.

Hibbyradge
14-08-2018, 02:30 PM
Am I right in thinking that the singing section spoke to the club about their location in the FF Upper and agreement was reached a few years ago?

If that's the case, then there should have been further discussion about a move, temporary or not.

I do think that the best place would be behind the goals, but an agreement is an agreement and it would be wrong for one side to arbitrarily break it, regardless of their intention.

Had the organisers spoken to the club about their ideas in advance, maybe there could have been an accomodation, but if not, the reasons would have been explained.

As it was, the club were basically ambushed and are now being portrayed as the guilty party whereas they are merely sticking with what has already been agreed.

Barney McGrew
14-08-2018, 02:31 PM
Motion:

Can we PLEASE stop calling the Singing Section the SS? 😂😂😂

Agreed.

It's much better to refer to them as the Glee Club.

Kaff
14-08-2018, 02:32 PM
If you read the op on this thread it states that despite numerous attempts to contact the club they’d had no response. As a result of this they had decided to try and organise something themselves. That to me says they had tried to contact the club. Another poster seems to think this contact was after the decision to sit in the ff lower on Sunday, I thought it meant they had tried to contact the club before, but had no response so decided to go ahead on their own.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?333230-Singing-Section-Relocation-This-Sunday

The above link is the original thread on the 'move'. Post 5 is the one i quoted in this thread and where they state that they attempted to acquire the seats before contacting the club.

makaveli1875
14-08-2018, 02:36 PM
Most clubs have the vocal/ultra's behind the goals . I cant actually think of any that have the family section there . Why did they move it there in the 1st place ?

marinello59
14-08-2018, 02:46 PM
Most clubs have the vocal/ultra's behind the goals . I cant actually think of any that have the family section there . Why did they move it there in the 1st place ?

Probably because it was one of the least desirable places to sit due to the view so harder to sell full price Season Tickets in. At the time everybody saw the East as the place to be if you wanted a more raucous atmosphere.

Mick O'Rourke
14-08-2018, 02:52 PM
Motion:

Can we PLEASE stop calling the Singing Section the SS? ������


I see our not so noisy neighbours have adopted that title too.
No waffen matter.
May i suggest a name change to CCS

Community Choral Section.:greengrin

On topic

The club need to sort out the lower FF for next season regards the purchase of cheap tickets that are hardly used, other than to gain Cup final/Semi final tickets.
(should that arise,as it has done numerous times in recent seasons)
That appears to me to be one of,if not the reason some have bought the cheap child ST
Just my view of course !

Kaff
14-08-2018, 02:56 PM
That’s a really good idea. I guess the main issue would be that these £25 tickets are accompanied by an adult who are likely want to go to the big games. Maybe just give them first dibs on class Atickets when they go on sale?

There are perfectly valid arguments about the location of the family section and can understand some of the angst about the £25 cost but our 3 tickets (1 adult, 1 youth and 1 child) cost £490 so its not a bargain basement amount of money when all added together, it is good value and I'm happy to take advantage of it. Our kids want to go to every game available and so far we've done Runavik and Molde as well as St J on Sunday, they've been given the bug and depriving them of the Cat A games doesn't sit well with me.
From what has been said there looks like there should be a tightening up on validating the age of those with a £25 ticket and perhaps checking on its use and availibility to others if not being used by the child but other than potential of relocating i would still urge everyone to back the concept of the family area.

WhileTheChief..
14-08-2018, 02:58 PM
So now the £25 ticket is worth talking about eh!

You’re not just winding us up??

Kaff
14-08-2018, 03:00 PM
So now the £25 ticket is worth talking about eh!

You’re not just winding us up??

I've put two or three explanations for my view/position. You've put down about two sentences basically stating to get rid of them, proper discussion would be preferred?

ancient hibee
14-08-2018, 03:07 PM
Presumably if there is going to be “organised”standing in the ground it has from a safety/insurance point of view to be controlled by the club.

cabbageandribs1875
14-08-2018, 03:13 PM
excuse my ignorance on this matter but is there actually a Law that means we have to have seating ? the FFL would be ideal for standing, heck i would maybe even start going there myself, having never been in the FF before....bring back the coo shed as well :flag::)

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 03:24 PM
HOUSTON, THERE’S BEEN A STATEMENT!

“Hibernian v Ross County

We were made aware late on Monday night of plans by the singing section to move to the Famous Five Lower for Sunday’s match with Ross County.

The Famous Five Lower is our designated family section – it has been for a number of years and we have no plans to change.

For league matches the whole lower section is almost completely sold out with season ticket members. Ticket holders should only be family groups, and we normally have ticket rules in place both online and at the Ticket Office to ensure that anyone buying individual match tickets are part of a family group. Mistakenly, these rules were not implemented for Sunday’s match, which resulted in a small number of adult tickets being purchased for that section. We have paused ticket sales in this section and refunded supporters who have purchased non-family tickets in this section.

We have worked well with the singing section on several projects since their mutually agreed move to the Famous Five in 2017. The atmosphere around the whole ground has been positive over the past few seasons, and we want to make sure that continues.

The suggested move for Sunday’s game was made without any consultation with the club despite the fact that it is well established that the Famous Give Lower is a Family Section. To avoid doubt, we have no plans to change the use of this section of the ground. It is heavily populated with season ticket holders and we want to put a focus on our matchday experience for families and the next generation of supporters.

We remain committed to engaging with all of our supporters, including the singing section and through our Safety Officer we have made a number of attempts in the last few weeks to communicate with this group.”

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 03:25 PM
HOUSTON, THERE’S BEEN A STATEMENT!

“Hibernian v Ross County

We were made aware late on Monday night of plans by the singing section to move to the Famous Five Lower for Sunday’s match with Ross County.

The Famous Five Lower is our designated family section – it has been for a number of years and we have no plans to change.

For league matches the whole lower section is almost completely sold out with season ticket members. Ticket holders should only be family groups, and we normally have ticket rules in place both online and at the Ticket Office to ensure that anyone buying individual match tickets are part of a family group. Mistakenly, these rules were not implemented for Sunday’s match, which resulted in a small number of adult tickets being purchased for that section. We have paused ticket sales in this section and refunded supporters who have purchased non-family tickets in this section.

We have worked well with the singing section on several projects since their mutually agreed move to the Famous Five in 2017. The atmosphere around the whole ground has been positive over the past few seasons, and we want to make sure that continues.

The suggested move for Sunday’s game was made without any consultation with the club despite the fact that it is well established that the Famous Give Lower is a Family Section. To avoid doubt, we have no plans to change the use of this section of the ground. It is heavily populated with season ticket holders and we want to put a focus on our matchday experience for families and the next generation of supporters.

We remain committed to engaging with all of our supporters, including the singing section and through our Safety Officer we have made a number of attempts in the last few weeks to communicate with this group.”

Pretty strange that the club also claim to have been trying to meet with Since 1875 over the past few weeks....

hhibs
14-08-2018, 03:26 PM
Yep, if Since1875 can’t get correspondence from the club after numerous tries then surely the reps exist to bridge the gap. They don’t exactly seem like a proactive pair though.

True,shocking IMO

BlackSheep
14-08-2018, 03:30 PM
Just rip out the plush seats in section 50 and put the Singing Section there.... its the end of the stand that is disrupting the sound travelling to the East that is ruining the effect of Since1875's efforts... I sit in the East section 40 and we barely hear them.... when i have sat in the west in hospitality then you can see the difference.

Its really simple...!!! (Apart from the disruption for existing section 50 ST holders).

hibbysam
14-08-2018, 03:34 PM
On the back of that statement, I’m guessing that means the club will not be reselling single seats for adults in cat A games in famous 5?? You know, a big money making scheme for the club, happy to take an adults penny when it suits.

Juniper Greens
14-08-2018, 03:35 PM
Pretty strange that the club also claim to have been trying to meet with Since 1875 over the past few weeks....

Which doesn't quite contradict what Since1875 said. They said "We are no further forward", so it would appear there has just been a game of phone tennis or something similar going on.

Glad the club have cleared this up

cabbageandribs1875
14-08-2018, 03:35 PM
so, looks like we have a Grass on .net that went running to the club....name and shame, show yourself :greengrin

hhibs
14-08-2018, 03:38 PM
Absolutely agree mate. IMO this is all part of a wider issue in football these days. Clubs are so busy pandering to corporate fans and the middle class 'are we going to the football this weekend father? … not if we are going to hear any more of that nasty language we heard last time son' demographic, that they have lost their way when it comes to the very thing that is a huge contributor to the matchday experience and that is the atmosphere.

I never thought I would see the day where the USA a land where corporate is king and sport is very much a business would be kicking the arse of Scottish football clubs when it comes to appreciating what atmosphere means to a football match … and not surprisingly I'm thinking of Portland Timbers here, where the club actively encourage their 'ultras' and bend over backwards to accommodate them, even to the extent of providing sand buckets for them to let off flares in. I'm not suggesting Hibs do that, but compared to them we are falling down big time by for some reason failing to recognise the massive importance atmosphere has in not only selling the club as an exciting way to pass a weekend but in driving the team forward on the park.

Hibs said at the very start of the Dempster revolution that every aspect of the club would be looked at in order to improve and that it was to our peril if we failed to recognise that even the smallest thing improved by 1% could mean the difference between success and failure ( the hugely successful British cycling team taking this very approach being cited at the time ) IMO Hibs are flying in the very face of that supposed 'credo' by failing to properly address this situation ….. nobody is saying the atmosphere at ER hasn't improved in the last few years, but it could be made a whole lot better and if you ask me doing that would be an improvement to something that is far from a small matter for the future good health and hopefully growing success of the club.

Well said that man.

Stantons Angel
14-08-2018, 03:39 PM
i think this matter would have been better dealt with by going to the fans reps with your suggestions.

In consideration of the Health and Safety aspects of moving so many people around may have had somebearing on the situation.

there are many accusations on the club for doing what they did and as many have already said we are hearing only one side of the story.

But the stadium and the way it is run is the the responsibility of the club.

In the recent past the club has bent over backwards to accomodate these fans wishes and have been rightly praised for doing so.

Ive not read if the existing season ticket holders had been approached regarding having fans standing in front of them and the singing and drum beside them?

I think these guys do a grand job but i think maybe they have overstepped themselves and have put the club's hiearchy in a tizz?

I cant understand why anyone would want to stand behind the goals as they restrict your view of the game and the moves taking place on the pitch?

Get some chat set up with the fans reps as inbetweens to start discussions.

Chuck Rhoades
14-08-2018, 03:40 PM
Gobsmacked by that statement. I emailed (others have called, text, emailed) for a meeting in July and have had zero response. Guess its a stalemate!

Fan reps anywhere to be seen?

The_Horde
14-08-2018, 03:41 PM
Gobsmacked by that statement. I emailed (others have called, text, emailed) for a meeting in July and have had zero response. Guess its a stalemate!

Fan reps anywhere to be seen?

Doing as they're told, as per.

Bostonhibby
14-08-2018, 03:41 PM
Shame. Really shaped up to be a great day. The club are happy to really push the marketing bus when it comes to the group - Time For Heroes, all the ticket advertisements etc but on the other hand appear to disagree with our approach? A face to face sit down would help. Time for the fan reps to bridge the gap as posted abovr.Agree. Surely this is firmly in the fans rep's gift to communicate on for all parties? Preferably before having to cancel.

My sympathies are with the folk that put in the effort to create the atmosphere.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

marinello59
14-08-2018, 03:42 PM
Gobsmacked by that statement. I emailed (others have called, text, emailed) for a meeting in July and have had zero response. Guess its a stalemate!

Fan reps anywhere to be seen?

Have you guys tried to contact them?
(The reps)

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 03:44 PM
Fans reps are likely to have just landed in Norway so doubt they will be very contactable over the next few days...

matty_f
14-08-2018, 03:44 PM
That did not happen though, and there will be people in that section who will not be able to see the game because of folk standing up. There's no getting away from this, and as much as i think this is exactly the place the singing section should be, it needs to be done properly with proper dialogue between both sides and probably the fans reps involved too.
Have to agree.

I love the singing section, I think they do a great job with the atmosphere and the displays etc. but I think they're in the wrong her as much as the club are.

I think of this had been planned in cooperation with the club ahead of announcing it etc, then it would have been really good to see how it worked out

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 03:45 PM
Slightly off topic but do the Fan Reps travel on the Club charter or HSL/fans charter to Molde?

theonlywayisup
14-08-2018, 03:50 PM
HOUSTON, THERE’S BEEN A STATEMENT!

“Hibernian v Ross County

We were made aware late on Monday night of plans by the singing section to move to the Famous Five Lower for Sunday’s match with Ross County.

The Famous Five Lower is our designated family section – it has been for a number of years and we have no plans to change.

For league matches the whole lower section is almost completely sold out with season ticket members. Ticket holders should only be family groups, and we normally have ticket rules in place both online and at the Ticket Office to ensure that anyone buying individual match tickets are part of a family group. Mistakenly, these rules were not implemented for Sunday’s match, which resulted in a small number of adult tickets being purchased for that section. We have paused ticket sales in this section and refunded supporters who have purchased non-family tickets in this section.

We have worked well with the singing section on several projects since their mutually agreed move to the Famous Five in 2017. The atmosphere around the whole ground has been positive over the past few seasons, and we want to make sure that continues.

The suggested move for Sunday’s game was made without any consultation with the club despite the fact that it is well established that the Famous Give Lower is a Family Section. To avoid doubt, we have no plans to change the use of this section of the ground. It is heavily populated with season ticket holders and we want to put a focus on our matchday experience for families and the next generation of supporters.

We remain committed to engaging with all of our supporters, including the singing section and through our Safety Officer we have made a number of attempts in the last few weeks to communicate with this group.”

Seems pretty clear to me.

Dancehibs
14-08-2018, 03:51 PM
It's hardly surprising that the move was blocked.

It is a weekend match and in the Family Section.

We used to have five tickets on the back row of that area with three children (initially) aged 8, 13 and 15. You can imagine we would have been delighted if a group set up in front of us standing throughout.

It all seemed like a very crass move in the first place to announce this without consulting the club.
It’s a fair point. If I had a family season ticket I could not see the game . I’d be annoyed. Perhaps a better trial would be the section nearest the east, to see if the noise traveled around the ground better

GreenArmyyy!
14-08-2018, 03:52 PM
Slightly off topic but do the Fan Reps travel on the Club charter or HSL/fans charter to Molde?

Yes mate.

Dancehibs
14-08-2018, 03:54 PM
HOUSTON, THERE’S BEEN A STATEMENT!

“Hibernian v Ross County

We were made aware late on Monday night of plans by the singing section to move to the Famous Five Lower for Sunday’s match with Ross County.

The Famous Five Lower is our designated family section – it has been for a number of years and we have no plans to change.

For league matches the whole lower section is almost completely sold out with season ticket members. Ticket holders should only be family groups, and we normally have ticket rules in place both online and at the Ticket Office to ensure that anyone buying individual match tickets are part of a family group. Mistakenly, these rules were not implemented for Sunday’s match, which resulted in a small number of adult tickets being purchased for that section. We have paused ticket sales in this section and refunded supporters who have purchased non-family tickets in this section.

We have worked well with the singing section on several projects since their mutually agreed move to the Famous Five in 2017. The atmosphere around the whole ground has been positive over the past few seasons, and we want to make sure that continues.

The suggested move for Sunday’s game was made without any consultation with the club despite the fact that it is well established that the Famous Give Lower is a Family Section. To avoid doubt, we have no plans to change the use of this section of the ground. It is heavily populated with season ticket holders and we want to put a focus on our matchday experience for families and the next generation of supporters.

We remain committed to engaging with all of our supporters, including the singing section and through our Safety Officer we have made a number of attempts in the last few weeks to communicate with this group.”
thats that. Two groups need to get a room . Interesting both parties think other side isn’t communicating.

matty_f
14-08-2018, 03:54 PM
Seems pretty clear to me.

Seems reasonable.

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 03:56 PM
Yes mate.

It wasn't really a yes or no question. I'll re-phrase:

How do the Fan Reps travel to Molde? on

A) Club charter?
B) HSL/fans charter?

Chuck Rhoades
14-08-2018, 03:56 PM
Fans reps are likely to have just landed in Norway so doubt they will be very contactable over the next few days...

Appreciate that. Think it was in the original statement acknowledging how busy everyone at the club will be at the moment. Priorities certainly elsewhere which is completely right.

marinello59
14-08-2018, 03:56 PM
Seems pretty clear to me.

Yeap. It’s just a pity the club hadn’t made that plain to the singing section earlier, it could have stopped a lot of ill feeling.

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 03:58 PM
"For league matches the whole lower section is almost completely sold out with season ticket members. Ticket holders should only be family groups, and we normally have ticket rules in place both online and at the Ticket Office to ensure that anyone buying individual match tickets are part of a family group. Mistakenly, these rules were not implemented for Sunday’s match, which resulted in a small number of adult tickets being purchased for that section. We have paused ticket sales in this section and refunded supporters who have purchased non-family tickets in this section."

Nonsense, I myself have purchased single Adult tickets for games in the F5 Lower loads of times, including Cat A,B and cup games over the past few seasons.


"It is heavily populated with season ticket holders "


Aye, heavily populated by £25 kids tickets which adults purchase then just upgrade when they want a ticket for a Cat A game and never bother to show up to other games.



Poor statement.

lord bunberry
14-08-2018, 04:02 PM
Which doesn't quite contradict what Since1875 said. They said "We are no further forward", so it would appear there has just been a game of phone tennis or something similar going on.

Glad the club have cleared this up

No what they’re saying is this. You seem strangely keen to be proved right on this part of the story for some reason.

Gobsmacked by that statement. I emailed (others have called, text, emailed) for a meeting in July and have had zero response. Guess its a stalemate!

Fan reps anywhere to be seen?

yonder1875
14-08-2018, 04:02 PM
I get that it will be difficult to facilitate this but just get yourselves back to the back of 43. Mix of the singing section and the traditional singers makes for a louder stadium.

Blaster
14-08-2018, 04:03 PM
Nonsense, I myself have purchased single Adult tickets for games in the F5 Lower loads of times, including Cat A,B and cup games over the past few seasons.



Aye, heavily populated by £25 kids tickets which adults purchase then just upgrade when they want a ticket for a Cat A game and never bother to show up to other games.



Poor statement.

Can I just state I’ve never upgraded my son’s £25 ticket for any game. He misses around 3 games a season due to midweek or Sunday clashes with his own football. Also one of the 10% who was bought his own seat for Sunday. 👍

Hibby70
14-08-2018, 04:04 PM
Some folk make going to the football awfy difficult.

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 04:08 PM
Can I just state I’ve never upgraded my son’s £25 ticket for any game. He misses around 3 games a season due to midweek or Sunday clashes with his own football. Also one of the 10% who was bought his own seat for Sunday. 👍

Sorry, didn't mean to cause any offence but I think it is pretty obvious that there are issues here.

CorrieHibs
14-08-2018, 04:10 PM
I’ve suggested it before. But, could S1875 group not move to the south lower?

Move back to the F5, when we play Hearts, Celtic and Rangers?

Blaster
14-08-2018, 04:13 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to cause any offence but I think it is pretty obvious that there are issues here.

I agree there are some which may have taken advantage. I know 3 people none of which are £25 tickets who probably miss a third of the games. 2 are full adult tickets so it’s possibly an unfair assumption that all empty seats are the cheap ones

oldbutdim
14-08-2018, 04:15 PM
It wasn't really a yes or no question. I'll re-phrase:

How do the Fan Reps travel to Molde? on

A) Club charter?
B) HSL/fans charter?

I assume on the Club Charter, as they did previously.

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 04:17 PM
I agree there are some which may have taken advantage. I know 3 people none of which are £25 tickets who probably miss a third of the games. 2 are full adult tickets so it’s possibly an unfair assumption that all empty seats are the cheap ones

Just for the record, wasn't stating that all empty seats are those who take advantage but there is far too many empty seats on a weekly basis to say that it is not alot.

WhileTheChief..
14-08-2018, 04:18 PM
Fans reps?? Never to be seen when needed.

Scrap them an aw.

Hermit Crab
14-08-2018, 04:19 PM
Slightly off topic but do the Fan Reps travel on the Club charter or HSL/fans charter to Molde?


They went with the club flight to Greece afaik. Do they get it for nothing as well, as in do the club pay for their travel and accommodation??

CropleyWasGod
14-08-2018, 04:20 PM
They went with the club flight to Greece afaik. Do they get it for nothing as well, as in do the club pay for their travel and accommodation??

Yes, as they're Board members.

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 04:20 PM
I assume on the Club Charter, as they did previously.

Strange that they wouldn't travel with the fans, can't imagine they'll have much work to do otherwise. Will be a nice wee jolly for them anyways.

Ged
14-08-2018, 04:21 PM
The SS needs to work with the club, not against it.

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 04:21 PM
Strange that they wouldn't travel with the fans, can't imagine they'll have much work to do otherwise. Will be a nice wee jolly for them anyways.

They are board members. Why should they travel with the fans? What if they or HSL don't have the funds to put them on the fans charter?

Hermit Crab
14-08-2018, 04:22 PM
Strange that they wouldn't travel with the fans, can't imagine they'll have much work to do otherwise. Will be a nice wee jolly for them anyways.


They didn't sit with us in Greece either, I'm reluctant to give them a lot of stick as it but be difficult job they have, phones ringing all the time, emails to answer ect.

They probably should be regular contributors on here though. IMO.

Blaster
14-08-2018, 04:23 PM
Just for the record, wasn't stating that all empty seats are those who take advantage but there is far too many empty seats on a weekly basis to say that it is not alot.

I know mate. Not from you but the general tone comes across is that all those with £25 tickets are chancers 😉. I actually think the £25 is too cheap but having said that my son is now addicted and he jumps up to the dearer bracket next year. So the get them & keep them coming has worked here.

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 04:24 PM
They are board members. Why should they travel with the fans? What if they or HSL don't have the funds to put them on the fans charter?

They are also fans reps, who should be accessible to the fans. The club staff stayed in a remote hotel outwith Tripolis and the reps were nowhere to be seen in the square or outside the ground pre-match. Surely a pre-requisite for being a fans rep would be being available to assist fans when the club travels abroad.

CapitalGreen
14-08-2018, 04:26 PM
They didn't sit with us in Greece either, I'm reluctant to give them a lot of stick as it but be difficult job they have, phones ringing all the time, emails to answer ect.

They probably should be regular contributors on here though. IMO.

Why slum it with the fans you were elected to represent when you can enjoy the hospitality laid on by board members of Asteras Tripolis.

Hermit Crab
14-08-2018, 04:27 PM
Why slum it with the fans you were elected to represent when you can enjoy the hospitality laid on by board members of Asteras Tripolis.


They were in the North Stand on Sunday with the fans. No hospitality at St Johnstone?

Hibs90
14-08-2018, 04:27 PM
They are also fans reps, who should be accessible to the fans. The club staff stayed in a remote hotel outwith Tripolis and the reps were nowhere to be seen in the square or outside the ground pre-match. Surely a pre-requisite for being a fans rep would be being available to assist fans when the club travels abroad.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't travel on the clubs charter.

theonlywayisup
14-08-2018, 04:27 PM
Fans reps?? Never to be seen when needed.

Scrap them an aw.

I think the "Fans Rep" must be a nightmare of a position to hold. You can see by the diverging opinions on this forum that it must be very difficult to represent the views of the fans.

WhileTheChief..
14-08-2018, 04:39 PM
^^Agreed.

Another reason to scrap the roles!!!

marinello59
14-08-2018, 04:41 PM
They are also fans reps, who should be accessible to the fans. The club staff stayed in a remote hotel outwith Tripolis and the reps were nowhere to be seen in the square or outside the ground pre-match. Surely a pre-requisite for being a fans rep would be being available to assist fans when the club travels abroad.

Frank was postioned at the entrance to the ground at Tripolis pre-match. Not so sure how you could miss him to be honest. :greengrin

matty_f
14-08-2018, 04:43 PM
They were in the North Stand on Sunday with the fans. No hospitality at St Johnstone?

:agree: Tracey was at the end of my row and Frank not far in front.

barcahibs
14-08-2018, 04:48 PM
Not sure how you can really fault the club here. The singing section are generally good (badly judged sevco banner aside) but they can't expect to be treated differently from other fans. If I had seats in the FF lower (I'm FF upper) and suddenly a bunch of folk who (presumably) will want to stand all match appeared in front of me I'd be ... Annoyed.

greenlex
14-08-2018, 04:55 PM
Regrettably Hibs have decided to block our move to the FF Lower on Sunday despite 90% of this section being unsold and the overwhelming majority of the Hibs support wanting to see this trialed. This included a threat to move any individuals who entered this area - although unsure how they’d identify non-regulars.

Tickets have been cancelled and refunded.

This match presented a great opportunity to trial something different after the club blocked a relocation of season tickets at the beginning of the year.

Despite numerous efforts to meet with the club, we’re no further forward. Hence trying to self organise ourselves, appreciating the club are extremely busy at the moment with European activity.

This feels like a blatant attempt now to keep a specific group of supporters tucked away in the far corner of ER, blocking their freedom and right to buy any unsold seat across the four stands.

We apologise to any supporter who purchased a ticket in Section 18 last night. Hibs have offered to refund these.

We’ll now pause for breath and reevaluate our options.

Thanks for your continued support

Since 1875
The 10% Would be rightly pissed off having to stand rather than sit in their seats that many of if not all would be season ticket holders. We’re the club involved or consulted from the start?

Golden Bear
14-08-2018, 04:56 PM
Not sure how you can really fault the club here. The singing section are generally good (badly judged sevco banner aside) but they can't expect to be treated differently from other fans. If I had seats in the FF lower (I'm FF upper) and suddenly a bunch of folk who (presumably) will want to stand all match appeared in front of me I'd be ... Annoyed.

:agree:

First of all the singing section are to be congratulated on improving the atmosphere within ER on Match Days but secondly it is just not practically possible to move the entire section from one area to another now that the season has started.

Discussions with the Club should be started now and the implications thought thru with a view to implementation in time for NEXT season.

Chorley Hibee
14-08-2018, 05:09 PM
Absolutely agree mate. IMO this is all part of a wider issue in football these days. Clubs are so busy pandering to corporate fans and the middle class 'are we going to the football this weekend father? … not if we are going to hear any more of that nasty language we heard last time son' demographic, that they have lost their way when it comes to the very thing that is a huge contributor to the matchday experience and that is the atmosphere.

I never thought I would see the day where the USA a land where corporate is king and sport is very much a business would be kicking the arse of Scottish football clubs when it comes to appreciating what atmosphere means to a football match … and not surprisingly I'm thinking of Portland Timbers here, where the club actively encourage their 'ultras' and bend over backwards to accommodate them, even to the extent of providing sand buckets for them to let off flares in. I'm not suggesting Hibs do that, but compared to them we are falling down big time by for some reason failing to recognise the massive importance atmosphere has in not only selling the club as an exciting way to pass a weekend but in driving the team forward on the park.

Hibs said at the very start of the Dempster revolution that every aspect of the club would be looked at in order to improve and that it was to our peril if we failed to recognise that even the smallest thing improved by 1% could mean the difference between success and failure ( the hugely successful British cycling team taking this very approach being cited at the time ) IMO Hibs are flying in the very face of that supposed 'credo' by failing to properly address this situation ….. nobody is saying the atmosphere at ER hasn't improved in the last few years, but it could be made a whole lot better and if you ask me doing that would be an improvement to something that is far from a small matter for the future good health and hopefully growing success of the club.

Couldn't have put it any better. I'm really disappointed in the club's stubborn stance on this matter.

Speedy
14-08-2018, 05:12 PM
:agree:

First of all the singing section are to be congratulated on improving the atmosphere within ER on Match Days but secondly it is just not practically possible to move the entire section from one area to another now that the season has started.

Discussions with the Club should be started now and the implications thought thru with a view to implementation in time for NEXT season.

Agreed.

To put it into context, if a group of 'quiet sit doon' fans announced publicly they had bought 90 tickets in the singing section and encouraged others to do the same I'd expect both the regulars in that section and the club to be a tad pissed off.

SRHibs
14-08-2018, 05:14 PM
Couldn't have put it any better. I'm really disappointed in the club's stubborn stance on this matter.

I think it’s a case of “damned if they do, damned if they don’t”.

I definitely agree that the singing section needs to be seated (or stood) somewhere where they can have a more significant effect on the general atmosphere. Conversely, with the stuff coming out in the recent past about Since1875 having class A tickets held for them, the club are probably keen to show that they aren’t giving the SS preferential treatment.

Like others have said, it might make it hard for any kids to fully enjoy the game (or even see it) if they are in amongst the SS. The idea for moving was good, but I think the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

Radium
14-08-2018, 05:15 PM
Gobsmacked by that statement. I emailed (others have called, text, emailed) for a meeting in July and have had zero response. Guess its a stalemate!

Fan reps anywhere to be seen?

They’re not fans Reps. They are board members. Convenient for the club to sort individuals issues but with no real clout.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chorley Hibee
14-08-2018, 05:19 PM
Some folk make going to the football awfy difficult.

I had the same discussion with friends recently, and I just don't understand why we seem to make attending a game so difficult.

HibeeHibernian4
14-08-2018, 05:32 PM
Absolutely agree mate. IMO this is all part of a wider issue in football these days.

Couldn't agree more (cut down the quote to save valuable screen space :greengrin). What America has realised, and what British clubs may realise too late, is that the fans themselves can be part of the matchday attraction in their own right. A game like Hibs - Livingston could be a lot easier to sell to casual fans/neutrals if you've got one end of the ground going absolutely tonto with drums, tifo and the occasional pyrotechnic. It's marketing 101, how are you going to make anyone else care about supporting Hibs when it looks like you don't care yourself?

The SPFL, Hibs and all other clubs in Scotland need to take stock of this and tell Police Scotland and their passive-aggressive campaigning of filming, harassing and huckling fans for minor offences to bolt. We're never going to have the best league in terms of footballing ability, but we're shooting ourselves in the foot if we won't even explore the idea of creating a 'scene' in Scottish football that could be both enjoyable and (crucially for the suits) profitable.

oldbutdim
14-08-2018, 05:34 PM
Why slum it with the fans you were elected to represent when you can enjoy the hospitality laid on by board members of Asteras Tripolis.

They enjoyed hospitality in the Faroes too.
Leeann and a couple of other Board Members had a drink in the ‘fans pub’ but I never caught sight of Frank or Tracey, apart from them returning from being wined and dined.

Albanian Hibs
14-08-2018, 05:38 PM
Fans reps are likely to have just landed in Norway so doubt they will be very contactable over the next few days...

They have internet access right?

Since90+2
14-08-2018, 05:40 PM
Couldn't agree more (cut down the quote to save valuable screen space :greengrin). What America has realised, and what British clubs may realise too late, is that the fans themselves can be part of the matchday attraction in their own right. A game like Hibs - Livingston could be a lot easier to sell to casual fans/neutrals if you've got one end of the ground going absolutely tonto with drums, tifo and the occasional pyrotechnic. It's marketing 101, how are you going to make anyone else care about supporting Hibs when it looks like you don't care yourself?

The SPFL, Hibs and all other clubs in Scotland need to take stock of this and tell Police Scotland and their passive-aggressive campaigning of filming, harassing and huckling fans for minor offences to bolt. We're never going to have the best league in terms of footballing ability, but we're shooting ourselves in the foot if we won't even explore the idea of creating a 'scene' in Scottish football that could be both enjoyable and (crucially for the suits) profitable.

Your first part sums up why Darts is now the second most watched sport on Sky after football. People tune in for the atmosphere and showmanship atleast as much as the game itself.

danhibees1875
14-08-2018, 05:48 PM
Have you guys tried to contact them?
(The reps)

There lies the problem it looks like. We have 1875 saying they tried to contact the club and the club saying they tried to contact 1875 - but it would seem neither contacted the fans reps who are there to bridge the gap.

The relocation was only posted about last night and then tickets taken offline this morning - they've probably been working/with family/travelling to Norway in that small window instead of looking for problems just in case. :dunno:

K.Marx
14-08-2018, 05:52 PM
The SPFL, Hibs and all other clubs in Scotland need to take stock of this and tell Police Scotland and their passive-aggressive campaigning of filming, harassing and huckling fans for minor offences to bolt. We're never going to have the best league in terms of footballing ability, but we're shooting ourselves in the foot if we won't even explore the idea of creating a 'scene' in Scottish football that could be both enjoyable and (crucially for the suits) profitable.

Totally agree with this. As an earlier poster has alluded to, even the US has embraced fan culture with safe standing areas were pyro etc is permitted. Why can’t we do the same in this country?

I just don’t think the club (like most in Scotland) can be arsed with the baggage, which is a shame

andyf5
14-08-2018, 05:52 PM
Fans reps?? Never to be seen when needed.

Scrap them an aw.

pretty sure I have seen Tracy on here recently sorting out issues with tickets. I think they do a good job and I wouldn't want it. Tracy still sits with her family at ER (or at least she said so in her election thingy). I like the fact that we have real fans on the board. Just my opinion.

Pretty Boy
14-08-2018, 05:53 PM
I've argued for ages the best thing the group can do is put together a plan to show the club why it makes practical and financial sense for them to facilitate the section in the area they want to be. Prove to the club that it's daft for them not to agree to the idea. A good starting point would be to have Section 25 packed and rocking for the RC game; make a point and say 'imagine how good that would be if we were down there'.

I've a fair bit experience in preparing and presenting reports in my working life and I'd be more than happy to offer my services or some advice to help out. It can't be good for anyone to have the club and a prominent fans group falling out.

hibbyfraelibby
14-08-2018, 06:01 PM
Why not work on relocating the singing section to the south lower end of the west stand and directly opposite the Section 43 loyalists? closest you can get to the away support.

Chuck Rhoades
14-08-2018, 06:04 PM
I've argued for ages the best thing the group can do is put together a plan to show the club why it makes practical and financial sense for them to facilitate the section in the area they want to be. Prove to the club that it's daft for them not to agree to the idea. A good starting point would be to have Section 25 packed and rocking for the RC game; make a point and say 'imagine how good that would be if we were down there'.

I've a fair bit experience in preparing and presenting reports in my working life and I'd be more than happy to offer my services or some advice to help out. It can't be good for anyone to have the club and a prominent fans group falling out.

That has been the intention for a long time. Dialogue has been impossible bar the odd text from the Safety Liasion Officer on different topics. From my understanding the idea was intended to prove exactly what you state, as opposed to cause friction. Instead tickets were cancelled this morning, 5 blocks were blocked online for all supporters and a warning/threat sent not to be in Section 18 come matchday or face removal.

Conversation would have been better. Charter probably prevented that so the heavy handed approach has been the alternative.

Few folk are trying to sort a face to face for Sunday, fingers crossed.

ian cruise
14-08-2018, 06:06 PM
I've argued for ages the best thing the group can do is put together a plan to show the club why it makes practical and financial sense for them to facilitate the section in the area they want to be. Prove to the club that it's daft for them not to agree to the idea. A good starting point would be to have Section 25 packed and rocking for the RC game; make a point and say 'imagine how good that would be if we were down there'.

I've a fair bit experience in preparing and presenting reports in my working life and I'd be more than happy to offer my services or some advice to help out. It can't be good for anyone to have the club and a prominent fans group falling out.

I think this is an excellent idea and a really helpful offer for the guys, I hope they take you up on it. Proper presenting experience is invaluable, it's amazing how folk can get it so wrong and think they're right.

Pretty Boy
14-08-2018, 06:11 PM
That has been the intention for a long time. Dialogue has been impossible bar the odd text from the Safety Liasion Officer on different topics. From my understanding the idea was intended to prove exactly what you state, as opposed to cause friction. Instead tickets were cancelled this morning, 5 blocks were blocked online for all supporters and a warning/threat sent not to be in Section 18 come matchday or face removal.

Conversation would have been better. Charter probably prevented that so the heavy handed approach has been the alternative.

Few folk are trying to sort a face to face for Sunday, fingers crossed.

Hope you can get a sit down sorted and clear the air.

If you do want any help in the future give me a shout. I can understand why there could be a temptation to just say '**** it' and end up in a stalemate but getting everyone back to the table is the way to go imo.

Good luck.

Hibbyradge
14-08-2018, 06:54 PM
Hope you can get a sit down sorted and clear the air.

If you do want any help in the future give me a shout. I can understand why there could be a temptation to just say '**** it' and end up in a stalemate but getting everyone back to the table is the way to go imo.

Good luck.

If there was to be a formal "business plan" as such, it should include a commitment to self-policing.

Rightly or wrongly, the club will be wary about potential behaviour which could cost the club.

Hibs didn't get fined after the cup final, but they'll have a financial slap coming after the Asteras flare. We'd get hammered for incidents at ER.

Peanut Shaz
14-08-2018, 07:52 PM
TBH I can see the pros and cons from both points of view. Hopefully a properly facilitated meeting can take place and some solution found. For all the great things Leeann has done for this club I can't help but feel in this instance she's trying to prove she's in charge and is proving to be a bit stubborn to make a point. Just my opinion mind.

houstonhibbee
14-08-2018, 08:04 PM
When are we going to go for a safe standing area? Presumably wherever that is located would be the obvious place for the singing section?

Alex Trager
14-08-2018, 08:05 PM
If there was to be a formal "business plan" as such, it should include a commitment to self-policing.

Rightly or wrongly, the club will be wary about potential behaviour which could cost the club.

Hibs didn't get fined after the cup final, but they'll have a financial slap coming after the Asteras flare. We'd get hammered for incidents at ER.

Yeah but the flare wasn’t from the section. I understand the point in general but feel that is not fair to pin that on them.

Hibbyradge
14-08-2018, 09:12 PM
Yeah but the flare wasn’t from the section. I understand the point in general but feel that is not fair to pin that on them.

I wasn't blaming them. I'm saying that it will be in the club's thoughts.

If the singing section is moved and is a success, then it will expand.

I've read on here that flares are about creating "atmosphere" so the thinking will be that the dafties who threw the flare in Greece are likely to locate there too.