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Bob Box Fish
08-08-2018, 10:09 PM
Of the >13,500 season tickets, UEFA money (>1million), John Mcginn fee (~2.8million - st Mirren), HSL, strip sales, Simon Murray fee, Dylan Mcgeouch contract offer (not taken) - how much of this will Lennon see to sign permanent contracts?

Happy with signings so far but the wallet must be bursting following a summer of income?

Paul1642
08-08-2018, 10:13 PM
The building of the indoor pitch will have to come from somewhere and how many more years do we have of paying STF 500k? I知 sure this was all accounted for regardless of John Mcginn so should defiantly be enough in the bank for a decent singing + some for the future. Will be great once STF is paid in full and we have 」500k extra per year which is no small amount

Bob Box Fish
08-08-2018, 10:15 PM
The building of the indoor pitch will have to come from somewhere and how many more years do we have if paying STF 500k? I知 sure this was app accounted for regardless of John Mcginn so should defiantly be enough in the bank for a decent singing + some for the future. Will be great once STF is paid in full and we have 」500k extra per year which is no small amount

I would imagine we made profit last season on average gates of 18k the last time hibs publicly announced a break even figure it was an average crowd of 12,000 required.

hibby6270
08-08-2018, 10:19 PM
Of the >13,500 season tickets, UEFA money (>1million), John Mcginn fee (~2.8million - st Mirren), HSL, strip sales, Simon Murray fee, Dylan Mcgeouch contract offer (not taken) - how much of this will Lennon see to sign permanent contracts?

Happy with signings so far but the wallet must be bursting following a summer of income?

You're absolutely right. There must be more signings in the pipeline. I recall Neil's quote after the Asteras match last week when he said 'there are many irons in the fire' on the transfer front. Maclaren, Agyepong and Hyndman have been announced since then but none of them are permanent.

In a way I don't mind that. As long as they are quality signings and not just signings for the sake of it, we'll all be happy.

Oh and by the way, according to our Gorgie chums all this incoming money is going straight into STF's back pocket!!

You've got to laugh at their naivety, poor wee lambs.😂😂

Speedway
08-08-2018, 10:21 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

Bob Box Fish
08-08-2018, 10:23 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

With selling Cummings, finishing fourth, league cup semi and 18k gates?

hibby6270
08-08-2018, 10:27 PM
The building of the indoor pitch will have to come from somewhere and how many more years do we have of paying STF 500k? I知 sure this was all accounted for regardless of John Mcginn so should defiantly be enough in the bank for a decent singing + some for the future. Will be great once STF is paid in full and we have 」500k extra per year which is no small amount

The repayments to STF have all been budgeted for within normal income, so there shouldn't be any strain on finances with regard to them.

Whilst it's almost certain not all incoming 'extra' funds will go straight into the transfer pot, it will more than likely be put to good use on capital expenditure - as already mentioned - the indoor pitch at EM for example. All a benefit to the club overall.

GlesgaeHibby
08-08-2018, 10:35 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

Find that hard to believe given massively increased gates, tv/prize money from being back in premiership etc

The_Horde
08-08-2018, 10:36 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

On the accounts from last year. Which were from the financial year before that.

danhibees1875
08-08-2018, 10:50 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

As in the year to 30 June 2018? I think we'll have made a wee profit that year.

Lemonade
08-08-2018, 11:11 PM
We値l have made a small loss this year.

No chance.

RoYO!
08-08-2018, 11:15 PM
What痴 our headline figures? How much do we owe to STF? Any mortgage/ stand/ east mains payments outstanding? (Other than Running costs). Are we in the black?

Hibernian32
09-08-2018, 01:11 AM
I値l take a gamble and say we致e sold 5k of our new tops that痴 at least 250000 for next year tho...

Bobby Moore
09-08-2018, 02:11 AM
We’ll have made a small loss this year.

The most recently published accounts where for the year ended 30th June 2017 and these covered our third and last year in the first division with the associated prize money and gate receipts and did indeed give rise to a small loss.
The next accounts for the year to 30th June 2018 shall cover our first year back in the SPFL and shall reflect the vastly increased prize money from a 4th place finish, increased gate receipts through higher season ticket sales and increased away fans attendances a ER, with 2 sell out derbys, 4 home Celtic/Rangers fixtures and also Aberdeen’s healthy away support in addition to the League Cup semi run.
I would be very surprised if those accounts, probably to be published in perhaps the late autumn of of this year do not show a marked improvement in the previous years small loss.
The proceeds from the SJM sale, and The Europa League appearance money plus’s attendances (minus costs of charter flights and hotel accommodation) shall be refelected in the next years accounts which shall run to 30th June 2019.
The latter two years accounts should also reflect an upward curve in donations from HSL following increased publicity and membership in these years.
Of course running a professional football club is a costly enterprise but I feel that in our circumstances our board have done and are doing a pretty outstanding job of it and deserve praise for this.
I have been a a shareholder since the calamitous days of Duff and Gray and can scarcely believe where our club stands now in terms of stadium and infastructure.

I can only summise that we are now by far and away in the best financial shape that we have ever been since then particularly when the said stadium and infrastructure are taken into account and compared to what it was.
We are I’m sure in a a very stable position and must be the envy of others.
I suppose I’m a bit of an old timer but to compare this to the days when the AGM had to be held in Portobello Town Hall for want of a suitable venue , the training facilities were non existent the and the attendances we had then and now, well the comparison is scarcely believable and this all after 3 years in the first division! All involved us fans included, should be very satisfied.

Dancehibs
09-08-2018, 05:20 AM
Of the >13,500 season tickets, UEFA money (>1million), John Mcginn fee (~2.8million - st Mirren), HSL, strip sales, Simon Murray fee, Dylan Mcgeouch contract offer (not taken) - how much of this will Lennon see to sign permanent contracts?

Happy with signings so far but the wallet must be bursting following a summer of income?

Definitely bringing in cash. Cost best part of 」400k for the flights out to the Europa ties. Be interesting what period villa pay the fee for Hohn.

DetroitHibs
09-08-2018, 05:27 AM
I think Lennon should be given 2 million to bolster the squad. Unfortunately don't think that will be the case.

007 Mickey Weir
09-08-2018, 05:40 AM
Remember the loanee players don稚 come free. We will be paying high wages and/or a fee

hhibs
09-08-2018, 06:48 AM
Definitely bringing in cash. Cost best part of 」400k for the flights out to the Europa ties. Be interesting what period villa pay the fee for Hohn.
That is very unlikely ,where are getting that figure from ?

HibbySpurs
09-08-2018, 07:35 AM
The most recently published accounts where for the year ended 30th June 2017 and these covered our third and last year in the first division with the associated prize money and gate receipts and did indeed give rise to a small loss.
The next accounts for the year to 30th June 2018 shall cover our first year back in the SPFL and shall reflect the vastly increased prize money from a 4th place finish, increased gate receipts through higher season ticket sales and increased away fans attendances a ER, with 2 sell out derbys, 4 home Celtic/Rangers fixtures and also Aberdeen痴 healthy away support in addition to the League Cup semi run.
I would be very surprised if those accounts, probably to be published in perhaps the late autumn of of this year do not show a marked improvement in the previous years small loss.
The proceeds from the SJM sale, and The Europa League appearance money plus痴 attendances (minus costs of charter flights and hotel accommodation) shall be refelected in the next years accounts which shall run to 30th June 2019.
The latter two years accounts should also reflect an upward curve in donations from HSL following increased publicity and membership in these years.
Of course running a professional football club is a costly enterprise but I feel that in our circumstances our board have done and are doing a pretty outstanding job of it and deserve praise for this.
I have been a a shareholder since the calamitous days of Duff and Gray and can scarcely believe where our club stands now in terms of stadium and infastructure.

I can only summise that we are now by far and away in the best financial shape that we have ever been since then particularly when the said stadium and infrastructure are taken into account and compared to what it was.
We are I知 sure in a a very stable position and must be the envy of others.
I suppose I知 a bit of an old timer but to compare this to the days when the AGM had to be held in Portobello Town Hall for want of a suitable venue , the training facilities were non existent the and the attendances we had then and now, well the comparison is scarcely believable and this all after 3 years in the first division! All involved us fans included, should be very satisfied.

:aok:

Or is that your pitch at the AGM for a dividend :greengrin:cb

660
09-08-2018, 07:38 AM
That is very unlikely ,where are getting that figure from ?

Probably 」125k on travel for each away tie so there痴 」375k

Ringothedog
09-08-2018, 07:49 AM
I値l take a gamble and say we致e sold 5k of our new tops that痴 at least 250000 for next year tho...

less the cost of buying them in, staff costs, VAT etc, we will be lucky if we make 」10 on each top.

Funkydunc
09-08-2018, 07:51 AM
Probably 」125k on travel for each away tie so there痴 」375k

」160k for Greece

mjhibby
09-08-2018, 07:51 AM
Definitely bringing in cash. Cost best part of 」400k for the flights out to the Europa ties. Be interesting what period villa pay the fee for Hohn.

Don't think our costs would be that much but would be considerable. I see lenny mentioned money from Cummings transfer so presumably that was the second instalment of his fee which makes things even rosier. As was said it's scarcely believable that we can be in such a position four years after relegation. Lenny has lost his two best players but he's now in a position to make hibs a force to be reckoned with for years. I reckon by the time lenny goes we will have a team full of players on long term contracts and some cracking youngsters. Best time to be a hibby since 1972. IMHO of course.

eastcoasthibby
09-08-2018, 09:24 AM
Given that LD said that NL has the biggest budget ever for the footballing side of Hibs ...the money indoor pitch, STF loan will all have been sitting on the other side of the budgets ...so he had what he had ..since then Murray away for 150 k, Europa run ..still profit in that from home crowds even if most of the rest has apparently gone on expenses !! Now mcginn money ...what struggle with is that whilst it will have cost us for Flo, Mallan, Bogdan ...we were for whatever not attempting to get a replacement in for McGinn even though we knew he would go ..sure we hadmoney.to spend without waiting for his money ?? My reason for thinking we.seem to have been waiting is that as soon as he goes we bring in a midfielder within a couple of hours ?? Not sure whats happening or why we.seem.to have been holding off but its not helped our cause in getting players in...timeously.
We wi never lnow the facts but it does raise questions !!

GloryGlory
09-08-2018, 09:30 AM
Of the >13,500 season tickets, UEFA money (>1million), John Mcginn fee (~2.8million - st Mirren), HSL, strip sales, Simon Murray fee, Dylan Mcgeouch contract offer (not taken) - how much of this will Lennon see to sign permanent contracts?

Happy with signings so far but the wallet must be bursting following a summer of income?

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/neil-lennon-hails-john-mcginn-and-reveals-plans-to-reshape-hibs-squad-1-4780912

This article in EEN says we've also brought in a bit more money from Jason Cummings. I wouldn't imagine it is very much, but every mickle maks a muckle, as they don't say in France. :greengrin

Remember, though, we've already forked out 」250-300k in transfer fees for Kamberi and Mallan.

GloryGlory
09-08-2018, 09:32 AM
Given that LD said that NL has the biggest budget ever for the footballing side of Hibs ...the money indoor pitch, STF loan will all have been sitting on the other side of the budgets ...so he had what he had ..since then Murray away for 150 k, Europa run ..still profit in that from home crowds even if most of the rest has apparently gone on expenses !! Now mcginn money ...what struggle with is that whilst it will have cost us for Flo, Mallan, Bogdan ...we were for whatever not attempting to get a replacement in for McGinn even though we knew he would go ..sure we hadmoney.to spend without waiting for his money ?? My reason for thinking we.seem to have been waiting is that as soon as he goes we bring in a midfielder within a couple of hours ?? Not sure whats happening or why we.seem.to have been holding off but its not helped our cause in getting players in...timeously.
We wi never lnow the facts but it does raise questions !!

Different targets for different scenarios regarding SJM staying or going?

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 09:33 AM
Given that LD said that NL has the biggest budget ever for the footballing side of Hibs ...the money indoor pitch, STF loan will all have been sitting on the other side of the budgets ...so he had what he had ..since then Murray away for 150 k, Europa run ..still profit in that from home crowds even if most of the rest has apparently gone on expenses !! Now mcginn money ...what struggle with is that whilst it will have cost us for Flo, Mallan, Bogdan ...we were for whatever not attempting to get a replacement in for McGinn even though we knew he would go ..sure we hadmoney.to spend without waiting for his money ?? My reason for thinking we.seem to have been waiting is that as soon as he goes we bring in a midfielder within a couple of hours ?? Not sure whats happening or why we.seem.to have been holding off but its not helped our cause in getting players in...timeously.
We wi never lnow the facts but it does raise questions !!It's been said before.

Before the SJM transfer was factored in, we had the budget for players A B and C. Now that SJM is away, we can afford X Y and Z.

We played the English window well, in that we would know when it shut whether we would be able to go for X Y and Z. And we now have 3 weeks in which to close those deals.

Y has a dodgy knee, though. Just saying.



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GloryGlory
09-08-2018, 09:35 AM
As in the year to 30 June 2018? I think we'll have made a wee profit that year.

Yes - I expect we will have made a small profit for 2017-18 financial year.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 09:45 AM
What痴 our headline figures? How much do we owe to STF? Any mortgage/ stand/ east mains payments outstanding? (Other than Running costs). Are we in the black?We owe just under 3.5m to the holding company. No bank or mortgage debt.

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mjhibby
09-08-2018, 10:21 AM
We owe just under 3.5m to the holding company. No bank or mortgage debt.

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Paying it off half a million a season interest free. We must have raised around 」3.5m from the europa run plus sjm fee and Cummings and Murray money. Yes we have spent money on kamberi and Mallon and no doubt the players are on better contracts but there is a huge amount to manoeuvre with from now till the end of the transfer window. Swanson and Whittaker places are under threat so wouldn't be surprised if one isn't out on loan to st mirren or the like. I would expect two more signings. Another centre midfielder and a wing back to cover for gray and Stevenson. Obviously if we get past molde then the europa league group stages come into the equation so we may see another quality player brought in. I'm sure we'd need to sign at least another few players if we got to the group stages to cope with the extra games. What a tough dilemma to have. Pity we aren't a big club. Teehee.

Dancehibs
09-08-2018, 10:39 AM
less the cost of buying them in, staff costs, VAT etc, we will be lucky if we make 」10 on each top.

We only get a cut as company that runs the shop gets a cut also

Jones28
09-08-2018, 10:40 AM
Definitely bringing in cash. Cost best part of 」400k for the flights out to the Europa ties. Be interesting what period villa pay the fee for Hohn.

400k for charter flights and hotels for a couple of nights? Where the hell are you pulling a figure like that from?

eastcoasthibby
09-08-2018, 10:43 AM
Paying it off half a million a season interest free. We must have raised around 」3.5m from the europa run plus sjm fee and Cummings and Murray money. Yes we have spent money on kamberi and Mallon and no doubt the players are on better contracts but there is a huge amount to manoeuvre with from now till the end of the transfer window. Swanson and Whittaker places are under threat so wouldn't be surprised if one isn't out on loan to st mirren or the like. I would expect two more signings. Another centre midfielder and a wing back to cover for gray and Stevenson. Obviously if we get past molde then the europa league group stages come into the equation so we may see another quality player brought in. I'm sure we'd need to sign at least another few players if we got to the group stages to cope with the extra games. What a tough dilemma to have. Pity we aren't a big club. Teehee.

We need another forward as well and the cover for Lewis needs tobe left footed and midfielder a left footed player as well ...😀

Dancehibs
09-08-2018, 10:49 AM
400k for charter flights and hotels for a couple of nights? Where the hell are you pulling a figure like that from?

Hibs . Also, confirmed charter cost to Greece was 」900 a head

Austinho
09-08-2018, 10:53 AM
We made some pocket money from MacLaren going to the World Cup.

Probably just enough to cover our naughty behaviour UEFA fines.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 10:59 AM
Hibs . Also, confirmed charter cost to Greece was 」900 a headThe jury is still out on that 」900 for me. I know the club tweeted that, but I suspect that was the total cost including VAT.

Ex VAT that would be 」750, which is close to the price they were charging fans. That would tie in with their comment that they were making nothing out of those seats.

All academic, of course, since we went with a different plane and charter company. Don't think we have any detail on the cost of that.

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Jones28
09-08-2018, 11:00 AM
Hibs . Also, confirmed charter cost to Greece was 」900 a head

Whoever negotiated that deal wants their head looked at.

AltheHibby
09-08-2018, 11:07 AM
Whoever negotiated that deal wants their head looked at.

Don't forget, we had to book at pretty much last minute prices and that puts costs up.

Jones28
09-08-2018, 11:11 AM
Don't forget, we had to book at pretty much last minute prices and that puts costs up.

I still can't fathom two trips costing near enough half a million pounds. Even for last minute deals. I guess that's why club rarely profit from Europe. Did the St Johnstone chairman not say they made a loss in Europe when they were in?

Captain Trips
09-08-2018, 11:13 AM
Probably 」125k on travel for each away tie so there痴 」375k

Is this actually true? it cost us 160k to go to Greece for a couple of nights? I do not see how a hotel for the Hibs travelling party could cost more than a few hundred per head per night. How much is a flight?

mim
09-08-2018, 11:13 AM
The jury is still out on that 」900 for me. I know the club tweeted that, but I suspect that was the total cost including VAT.

Ex VAT that would be 」750, which is close to the price they were charging fans. That would tie in with their comment that they were making nothing out of those seats.

All academic, of course, since we went with a different plane and charter company. Don't think we have any detail on the cost of that.

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I believe the Greece charter was 」130k

Captain Trips
09-08-2018, 11:14 AM
Hibs . Also, confirmed charter cost to Greece was 」900 a head

How many folk went out?

Jones28
09-08-2018, 11:17 AM
I believe the Greece charter was 」130k

Dividing 130,000 by 900 gives 144.4 - meaning 72 people went on the charter flight each way. Other than the squad - being generous and saying 35 including staff - and a couple of senior figures, who else went?

Pretty Boy
09-08-2018, 11:24 AM
Our income has obviously gone up but I think there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest our expenditure has also gone up. We paid fees for Marciano, Kamberi and Mallan in the last couple of years. Prior to that when did we last pay a fee of note? I'm sure guys like the aforementioned, Ambrose etc aren't playing for peanuts either.

I don't think your going to see us shell out a huge wedge on one player but I'm not concerned about us playing the loan system either. We have used it perfectly in recent years and secured a few permanent deals on the back of it. I'm still hopeful we'll see another couple of good quality additions in the next couple of weeks to add to the very decent business we have already done.

Captain Trips
09-08-2018, 11:32 AM
Footage showing the Hibs charter leaving las week:

https://businessmanagmentnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/cheap-airlines.jpg

IWasThere2016
09-08-2018, 11:40 AM
Our income has obviously gone up but I think there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest our expenditure has also gone up. We paid fees for Marciano, Kamberi and Mallan in the last couple of years. Prior to that when did we last pay a fee of note? I'm sure guys like the aforementioned, Ambrose etc aren't playing for peanuts either.

I don't think your going to see us shell out a huge wedge on one player but I'm not concerned about us playing the loan system either. We have used it perfectly in recent years and secured a few permanent deals on the back of it. I'm still hopeful we'll see another couple of good quality additions in the next couple of weeks to add to the very decent business we have already done.

These would be after 30 June 2018 - so in next years eg 1 July 2018 to 30 June 2019 accounts.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 11:41 AM
Dividing 130,000 by 900 gives 144.4 - meaning 72 people went on the charter flight each way. Other than the squad - being generous and saying 35 including staff - and a couple of senior figures, who else went?You're talking about different flights.

The 」900 was for the original trip, that had to be rearranged at short notice.

As has been said often, the short-term last-minute nature of the requirements, at the busiest time of the year, pushed the price well up.

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Captain Trips
09-08-2018, 11:44 AM
Petrie steps in to arrange next weeks transport to Molde:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/US_Navy_090818-N-0167W-042_USS_Constitution_crewmember_Boatswains_Mate_2n d_Class_Garrett_Renner_guides_a_team_of_Navy_chief _selects_in_the_port_whaleboat_of_USS_Constitution .jpg/240px-thumbnail.jpg

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 11:47 AM
I still can't fathom two trips costing near enough half a million pounds. Even for last minute deals. I guess that's why club rarely profit from Europe. Did the St Johnstone chairman not say they made a loss in Europe when they were in?2 x 125 is 250 [emoji6]

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JeMeSouviens
09-08-2018, 11:47 AM
Our income has obviously gone up but I think there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest our expenditure has also gone up. We paid fees for Marciano, Kamberi and Mallan in the last couple of years. Prior to that when did we last pay a fee of note? I'm sure guys like the aforementioned, Ambrose etc aren't playing for peanuts either.

I don't think your going to see us shell out a huge wedge on one player but I'm not concerned about us playing the loan system either. We have used it perfectly in recent years and secured a few permanent deals on the back of it. I'm still hopeful we'll see another couple of good quality additions in the next couple of weeks to add to the very decent business we have already done.

Our wage bill must have gone up significantly. We are now at the stage where players we want to keep and who have been a big enough success to get decent moves elsewhere are choosing to stay with us. Flo, Jamie, Efe, Paul Hanlon are all examples of this.

On the upward spiral again.

GlesgaeHibby
09-08-2018, 11:57 AM
Our wage bill must have gone up significantly. We are now at the stage where players we want to keep and who have been a big enough success to get decent moves elsewhere are choosing to stay with us. Flo, Jamie, Efe, Paul Hanlon are all examples of this.

On the upward spiral again.

I'm sure it will have, but it will also be helped by us having a much trimmer squad than the likes of Hearts, Rangers etc. who seem to be carrying a huge squad of first team players.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 12:01 PM
I値l take a gamble and say we致e sold 5k of our new tops that痴 at least 250000 for next year tho...

I've no idea how much Hibs get from selling kit, but it'll be a fraction of what you suggest.

」25k, if that

Lendo
09-08-2018, 12:08 PM
We made some pocket money from MacLaren going to the World Cup.

Probably just enough to cover our naughty behaviour UEFA fines.

Really? Why would we have received money instead of his parent club?

Nevi_SOL
09-08-2018, 12:13 PM
Really? Why would we have received money instead of his parent club?

Got broken over 2 years so Hibs would get a quarter (6 months) Darmstadt half( 1 year) and think it was Melbourne had the other quarter

FilipinoHibs
09-08-2018, 12:14 PM
I've no idea how much Hibs get from selling kit, but it'll be a fraction of what you suggest.

」25k, if that

」5 a top! I would say at least 」20 per top so 」100k+.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 12:21 PM
」5 a top! I would say at least 」20 per top so 」100k+.

https://www.90min.com/posts/5628080-the-shocking-truth-behind-how-much-money-clubs-really-make-from-shirt-sales

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 12:27 PM
https://www.90min.com/posts/5628080-the-shocking-truth-behind-how-much-money-clubs-really-make-from-shirt-sales

Bear in mind, too, that we as a club don't sell the shirts. It's the shop that does that, and we get a cut.

RyeSloan
09-08-2018, 12:30 PM
It痴 always an interesting discussion but I find that most people tend to over estimate income and under estimate expenditure in these chats.

The good news is that no matter what our turnover is increasing so I assume there will be space for expenditures on the squad to be going up as well which should auger well for the quality on the pitch.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 12:35 PM
Bear in mind, too, that we as a club don't sell the shirts. It's the shop that does that, and we get a cut.

Indeed.

Do the accounts detail income from shop sales?

danhibees1875
09-08-2018, 12:43 PM
Indeed.

Do the accounts detail income from shop sales?

Nope - unless I'm completely missing it.

For y/e 30/6/17, total revenue was 」7.7m, up from 」7.0m and they cite the increase as being due to "increased ST sales, participation in Europe, and higher retail income" - so it's in there somewhere and noteable enough to be worthy of commentary.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 12:47 PM
Indeed.

Do the accounts detail income from shop sales?

No. Our Turnover isn't detailed in any way.

Hence the constant and repetitive debates about comparing ours with that of other clubs, which are largely meaningless IMO.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 12:48 PM
Nope - unless I'm completely missing it.

For y/e 30/6/17, total revenue was 」7.7m, up from 」7.0m and they cite the increase as being due to "increased ST sales, participation in Europe, and higher retail income" - so it's in there somewhere and noteable enough to be worthy of commentary.

That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 12:57 PM
That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

The SJM money isn't included in Turnover. It's shown separately as a "gain on Intangible Assets".

That figure, too, is shown as a total.... so, given that we also sold Murray in this season, we will have to make a guess on the SJM element of the gain.

ballengeich
09-08-2018, 01:00 PM
The SJM money isn't included in Turnover. It's shown separately as a "gain on Intangible Assets".

That figure, too, is shown as a total.... so, given that we also sold Murray in this season, we will have to make a guess on the SJM element of the gain.

Does the entire gain appear in the year of the transfer or is it split over several years if payment is in instalments?

danhibees1875
09-08-2018, 01:00 PM
That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

The summary is all the detail you get on turnover unfortunately.

Ask Jamie Marwick nicely for a look at their trial balance at the next AGM. :greengrin

SirDavidsNapper
09-08-2018, 01:01 PM
Aye but tick tock, 5-1 etc

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 01:08 PM
Does the entire gain appear in the year of the transfer or is it split over several years if payment is in instalments?

That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

ballengeich
09-08-2018, 01:16 PM
That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

Thanks

Caversham Green
09-08-2018, 01:26 PM
That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

I would argue that if it is a definite fee it should all be recognised in the year it arose regardless of the invoicing procedure - it would be accrued if invoices hadn't been raised. If the instalments are in any way conditional then the income wouldn't be recognised until the conditions had been met (e.g. number of appearances, promotion etc.)

Sorry if this is getting too exciting for some of you.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 01:29 PM
I would argue that if it is a definite fee it should all be recognised in the year it arose regardless of the invoicing procedure - it would be accrued if invoices hadn't been raised. If the instalments are in any way conditional then the income wouldn't be recognised until the conditions had been met (e.g. number of appearances, promotion etc.)

Sorry if this is getting too exciting for some of you.

I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 01:36 PM
I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/P2zWGZAC5HU9ZCosyHSBMnHGGhY=/fit-in/850x590/2013%2F07%2F30%2F33%2Fpopcorn.4da1c.gif

Caversham Green
09-08-2018, 01:49 PM
I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

Don't get me started on VAT tax points.


Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

CropleyWasGod
09-08-2018, 01:51 PM
Don't get me started on VAT tax points.


Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

You're such a ****ing tease.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2018, 01:51 PM
Don't get me started on VAT tax points.


Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

This is awesome.

Caversham Green
09-08-2018, 01:53 PM
You're such a ****ing tease.


This is awesome.

Nice to know I've still got it.