Banning heading for those under the age of 18

[theonlywayisup]

Heading a football should be restricted in the professional game and banned for those under the age of 18, according to one of the world's leading experts on brain injuries.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45110282

Views?

[Big_Franck]

Clearly never did John Hughes any harm :tin hat:

[Since90+2]

Heading the ball is a fundamental part of the game and for certain positions it's absolutely critical that you are good at it to make it at a high level. It would be like a different sport.

Pretty much every single sport is dangerous to one degree or another , if this thing is allowed to happen its the minority (who probably never even played the game) dictating to the majority.

[scooby]

It really can't be good for you, but would fundamentally change the game if banned.
I guess the only viable option would be to ban headers outside the box.

[geohibby]

They going to ban boxing then??

[Smartie]

Those heavy old balls would definitely have been a problem, but I'd be surprised if these modern light ones were that bad.

[wookie70]

Taking it too far. Good to know about the risk but you would stop loads of great activities if you eliminated all risk. Far more chance of serious injuries in motorcycling, ski jumping etc

[Joe6-2]

Millions of people suffer from Alzheimer’s, although a horrendous condition, and other brain diseases, but can the prove a link to heading a ball?

[Captain Trips]

If explained what may happen it should be left to people if they can to chose. We seem to be getting decisions taken away from us all more often.

[Rumble de Thump]

The players could wear helmets.

[Joe6-2]

The players could wear helmets.

Yeah, two of you go for the same ball.......broken nose

[JackHibs]

No scrums in rugby then?

Seeing things like this gets me raging, headering is a skill and an important one in football. Imagine not heading a ball until 18 - how many 50p heeds would there be

[MyJo]

Heading the ball is a valuable skill that requires good timing and technique to do it right.

What the hell are players going to do when they start playing professionally and have no clue how to header the ball because they weren't allowed to as youth players.

Utter nonsense that's an overreaction to concussions and brain injuries in other sports like Rugby and American Football. Completely ignores the fact it is the tackling and aggressive physical contact to the head that causes the problem in these sports which doesn't happen in football.

[Fife-Hibee]

He may well be right, who are we to dispute the opinion of someone who specializes in this field?

However, applying it to the game just isn't realistic. You're going to instinctively header the ball if you're challenging for it anywhere on the pitch, or see a goal scoring opportunity.

It would be totally bizarre to see how players would try and win the ball in the middle of the park, when neither player can jump up to header it.

[Beefster]

The players could wear helmets.

If the issue is repeated trauma to the brain, would helmets do much?

[Sir David Gray]

Without headers we may now be on 116 years.

[surreyhibbie]

Millions of people suffer from Alzheimer’s, although a horrendous condition, and other brain diseases, but can the prove a link to heading a ball?

My dad died from Alzheimer’s and my mother in law currently suffers from it.
I seriously doubt either of them headed a football in their lives.

[worcesterhibby]

I tend to agree with the "Nanny State" posters, but then again if we banned under 16's from kicking the ball above head height, we might fundamentally change the way Scottish football is played for the better !

[Beefster]

My dad died from Alzheimer’s and my mother in law currently suffers from it.
I seriously doubt either of them headed a football in their lives.

Sorry to hear that but it doesn’t mean there isn’t a link between heading the ball and Alzheimer’s.

[Chic Murray]

Been a lot of ex footballers in the press recently linking dementia to headering the ball.

I expect their opinion is as scientific as anyone elses.

[JackHibs]

Sorry to hear that but it doesn’t mean there isn’t a link between heading the ball and Alzheimer’s.

That's what he was saying!

[jacomo]

Didn’t know there were so many neuro scientists on Hibs.net.

Can only hope you are all publishing your research to counter the ‘utter nonsense’ you are apparently reading.

Obviously banning heading for u18s would have a fairly considerable impact on the game... but maybe there is good reason to do so?

[cabbageandribs1875]

They going to ban boxing then??



only uppercuts, as that can lead to someone losing their head

[snooky]

Heading a football should be restricted in the professional game and banned for those under the age of 18, according to one of the world's leading experts on brain injuries.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45110282

Views?

Boxing's okay though. :rolleyes: So is mountaineering, diving, pot-holing, rugby. cycling, etc. Sledgehammer to kill a fly stuff.
I wish when these researchers publish their findings they would leave it up to the individual (or parent) to make their own judgement instead of legislating every damn thing. Freedom of choice is eroding every minute and one day we'll not be able to do anything.
(Sorry, just read other posts and most are saying more or less the same as me)

[wookie70]

Taking it too far. Good to know about the risk but you would stop loads of great activities if you eliminated all risk. Far more chance of serious injuries in motorcycling, ski jumping etc

[Fife-Hibee]

Boxing's okay though. :rolleyes: So is mountaineering, diving, pot-holing, rugby. cycling, etc. Sledgehammer to kill a fly stuff.
I wish when these researchers publish their findings they would leave it up to the individual (or parent) to make their own judgement instead of legislating every damn thing. Freedom of choice is eroding every minute and one day we'll not be able to do anything.

Agree with this.

Education is key. Make people aware of the possible risks of the sport, then let them make their own choice about whether they still want to participate or not.

Risks of short term or long term injuries exist all over the place and as you say, if they start legislating everything as a result, then what does it leave?

[snooky]

Boxing's okay though. :rolleyes: So is mountaineering, diving, pot-holing, rugby. cycling, etc. Sledgehammer to kill a fly stuff.
I wish when these researchers publish their findings they would leave it up to the individual (or parent) to make their own judgement instead of legislating every damn thing. Freedom of choice is eroding every minute and one day we'll not be able to do anything.
(Sorry, just read other posts and most are saying more or less the same as me)

Other things that aren't good for you because they could do damage to your well being.
Driving a car
Flying
Joining the Army
Hunting
Parachuting
Scuba diving
Smoking
Drinking alcohol
Ice skating
Sailing


The list is endless. Life is a constant risk. Eliminate all the risks and then .... why even bother living in the first place? :dunno:

[Ozymandias]

Boxing's okay though. :rolleyes: So is mountaineering, diving, pot-holing, rugby. cycling, etc. Sledgehammer to kill a fly stuff.
I wish when these researchers publish their findings they would leave it up to the individual (or parent) to make their own judgement instead of legislating every damn thing. Freedom of choice is eroding every minute and one day we'll not be able to do anything.
(Sorry, just read other posts and most are saying more or less the same as me)

To be fair to the BBC post and the doctor, that's not what is being said, nor is it a published article. it is an opinion espoused on a radio programme by a guy with fairly impeccable credentials in the field.

That notwithstanding, it is the sort of reporting that is a dog-whistle to those who don't think things through (not you Snooky!). I have a vision of over-protective parents forcing little Johnny or Jenna to turn up for games and giving strict instructions to the coach that they are not allowed to head the ball.

It is almost certainly indisputable that impacting a high velocity football with your napper is not going to do you much good, but it comes down to a risk analysis. Around 2.5 million footballers in the UK, what is the evidence on how many develop complications as a result of heading? when the best known and much quoted example of this remains Jeff Astle, it does kind of suggest that it is a tiny, tiny number.

The danger of this kind of article is that it promotes OTT, knee jerk reactions to relatively small risk, and in football given its profile there is a greater risk of this type of reaction.

[Wembley67]

Or see it as a positive? Not that I agree with it but it will reach the fundamentals of ball control/passing game and stop folk lumping it up the park!

[snooky]

To be fair to the BBC post and the doctor, that's not what is being said, nor is it a published article. it is an opinion espoused on a radio programme by a guy with fairly impeccable credentials in the field.

That notwithstanding, it is the sort of reporting that is a dog-whistle to those who don't think things through (not you Snooky!). I have a vision of over-protective parents forcing little Johnny or Jenna to turn up for games and giving strict instructions to the coach that they are not allowed to head the ball.

It is almost certainly indisputable that impacting a high velocity football with your napper is not going to do you much good, but it comes down to a risk analysis. Around 2.5 million footballers in the UK, what is the evidence on how many develop complications as a result of heading? when the best known and much quoted example of this remains Jeff Astle, it does kind of suggest that it is a tiny, tiny number.

The danger of this kind of article is that it promotes OTT, knee jerk reactions to relatively small risk, and in football given its profile there is a greater risk of this type of reaction.
Good post - esp the highlighted part.

Recently there was a report of a fatal accident where a joyrider killed someone while driving at approx 70mph in a 40mph zone. There were people screaming after the fact for the section of road to be reduced to 30mph to try and prevent this happening again.
Go figure. :rolleyes:

[Fisherrow Harp]

If the issue is repeated trauma to the brain, would helmets do much?
Exactly Beefster, look at the NFL. There is a train of thought that helmets actually make it worse.

[rotherhamrob]

Well if they do that'll be the jambo training manual f*****.

[Smartie]

No scrums in rugby then?

Seeing things like this gets me raging, headering is a skill and an important one in football. Imagine not heading a ball until 18 - how many 50p heeds would there be

I can't believe that in this health and safety conscious age rugby is still allowed in its current form.

Rugby is not a sport that I watch regularly but I tend to drop in and watch a bit of it every few years. These lads are bigger and stronger than ever and are hitting each other harder than ever - and it seems to me like they are injuring each other more seriously and more often.

As an outsider looking in, I'm just surprised that in the current climate full contact rugby is still allowed, and I wonder how much longer it will be allowed to go on for.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The solution is quite simple …. if the ball is played above head height the players competing for it can catch it and call for a mark like in Rugby … play restarts from the position the player caught the ball from … don't see what the problem is here :greengrin

[hibbytam]

Did anyone see the documentary with Alan Shearer on this subject? It was fairly heartbreaking to see the retired footballers with dementia, and I'd hate to think of any of our players having to go through that in later life, just from playing football. I'd say it's essential viewing to anyone who's cynical about this, it's a serious issue that football doesn't seem to want to know about. Certainly Rugby is miles ahead of us in this regard, in regard to things like concussed players (i know it's a slightly different, but it's along the same lines)

As an aside, it would interesting to see what a game of football would be like without heading, if it would be more/less/same but different entertaining.

[snooky]

I can't believe that in this health and safety conscious age rugby is still allowed in its current form.

Rugby is not a sport that I watch regularly but I tend to drop in and watch a bit of it every few years. These lads are bigger and stronger than ever and are hitting each other harder than ever - and it seems to me like they are injuring each other more seriously and more often.

As an outsider looking in, I'm just surprised that in the current climate full contact rugby is still allowed, and I wonder how much longer it will be allowed to go on for.

As long as we resist those people who constantly want to make our decisions for us.

[Stevie Reid]

Did anyone see the documentary with Alan Shearer on this subject? It was fairly heartbreaking to see the retired footballers with dementia, and I'd hate to think of any of our players having to go through that in later life, just from playing football. I'd say it's essential viewing to anyone who's cynical about this, it's a serious issue that football doesn't seem to want to know about. Certainly Rugby is miles ahead of us in this regard, in regard to things like concussed players (i know it's a slightly different, but it's along the same lines)

As an aside, it would interesting to see what a game of football would be like without heading, if it would be more/less/same but different entertaining.

It really would. I'd imagine there'd be a lot less shocks in cup games etc, so maybe a lot of the appeal would go. Would definitely be interesting to see that version of football though.

[snooky]

The solution is quite simple …. if the ball is played above head height the players competing for it can catch it and call for a mark like in Rugby … play restarts from the position the player caught the ball from … don't see what the problem is here :greengrin

:greengrin

Brilliant, NN :aok:
We could also introduce a rule that the goalie can't touch the ball with his hands.

[snooky]

Did anyone see the documentary with Alan Shearer on this subject? It was fairly heartbreaking to see the retired footballers with dementia, and I'd hate to think of any of our players having to go through that in later life, just from playing football. I'd say it's essential viewing to anyone who's cynical about this, it's a serious issue that football doesn't seem to want to know about. Certainly Rugby is miles ahead of us in this regard, in regard to things like concussed players (i know it's a slightly different, but it's along the same lines)

As an aside, it would interesting to see what a game of football would be like without heading, if it would be more/less/same but different entertaining.

Can I suggest indoor 5 a-side or, the latest crazy for auld yins, walking football. :wink:

[Fife-Hibee]

Did anyone see the documentary with Alan Shearer on this subject? It was fairly heartbreaking to see the retired footballers with dementia, and I'd hate to think of any of our players having to go through that in later life, just from playing football. I'd say it's essential viewing to anyone who's cynical about this, it's a serious issue that football doesn't seem to want to know about. Certainly Rugby is miles ahead of us in this regard, in regard to things like concussed players (i know it's a slightly different, but it's along the same lines)

As an aside, it would interesting to see what a game of football would be like without heading, if it would be more/less/same but different entertaining.

Was there any link proven between them playing football and their dementia? It's heart breaking to see anybody with dementia. But a large proportion of dementia sufferers have rarely headed a ball in their lives.

I would be interested in seeing the actual facts and figures that prove playing football significantly increases a persons chance of ending up with dementia later on.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I can't believe that in this health and safety conscious age rugby is still allowed in its current form.

Rugby is not a sport that I watch regularly but I tend to drop in and watch a bit of it every few years. These lads are bigger and stronger than ever and are hitting each other harder than ever - and it seems to me like they are injuring each other more seriously and more often.

As an outsider looking in, I'm just surprised that in the current climate full contact rugby is still allowed, and I wonder how much longer it will be allowed to go on for.



although scrums can be a very important tactic and give some teams a huge advantage in rugby union i've thought for many years now rugby union should follow rugby league and just have non-contested scrums with just the three players from each side, although not quite prevalent nowayears the scrum was the reason some rugby players had 'cauliflower ears'

[NAE NOOKIE]

Can I suggest indoor 5 a-side or, the latest crazy for auld yins, walking football. :wink:

Walking football has a head height rule almost universally so heading doesn't come into it … but the funny thing is that even then if the ball does go over head height folk still cant resist heading it lol :greengrin

[surreyhibbie]

Was there any link proven between them playing football and their dementia? It's heart breaking to see anybody with dementia. But a large proportion of dementia sufferers have rarely headed a ball in their lives.

I would be interested in seeing the actual facts and figures that prove playing football significantly increases a persons chance of ending up with dementia later on.

Not all footballers get dementia and not all dementia sufferers played football, so the link is unproven.
I am willing to accept, however, that heading a ball might not always be good for you!

[hibbytam]

Was there any link proven between them playing football and their dementia? It's heart breaking to see anybody with dementia. But a large proportion of dementia sufferers have rarely headed a ball in their lives.

I would be interested in seeing the actual facts and figures that prove playing football significantly increases a persons chance of ending up with dementia later on.

It was a few months ago now, so I don't remember the exact details, and unfortunately it's no longer on iplayer. There's an article here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41902953 but it's lacking in some of the more precise details.

As with a lot of these things, it's quite hard to prove a direct cause and effect, but there was certainly correlation between footballers and damaged brains (which is obviously quite different to causation). One key point being the type of balls they had to header, and the weight when they got wet.

I think there was a particular point about the type of damage in the brain being different to non-sports persons damaged brains, but I can't quite remember now.

But I think the biggest problem was the lack of action by those in charge of football, the impression the documentary left was that they didn't want to know, certainly in the past. Like the bit about Jeff Astle being ruled to have died from industrial disease, and nothing being done about it. Or the lack of any official help for those who might be suffering.

[hibbytam]

It really would. I'd imagine there'd be a lot less shocks in cup games etc, so maybe a lot of the appeal would go. Would definitely be interesting to see that version of football though.

Yeah I hadn't thought of it from that point of view.

I thought it might produce more technical footballers, at the expense of the more physical types. Might make it more entertaining, less Levein style clogger football.
Though that's a trend that's happening anyway, atleast at the top level. I think there was something about that in the Shearer documentary, that the number of headers in the EPL was reduced.

[Forza Fred]

My experience as a former kids coach is that the ball was rarely headed anyway.

Sure, as they enter their teenage years the incidence increases, but hardly a sustained/repetitive occurrence.

I think there are inherent risks in every sport, and this is just one of them...to ban heading would make football, no longer the outdoor game we know, but the extension of indoor football.

[Looper]

How would Hearts play their hoofball tactics without Laff being able to heed the ball

[Joe6-2]

I tend to agree with the "Nanny State" posters, but then again if we banned under 16's from kicking the ball above head height, we might fundamentally change the way Scottish football is played for the better !

What would Herts do then?

[Forza Fred]

It really would. I'd imagine there'd be a lot less shocks in cup games etc, so maybe a lot of the appeal would go. Would definitely be interesting to see that version of football though.

Indoor football on a bigger scale?

[ScottB]

Alan Shearer did a documentary on this issue that's well worth a watch if it's still kicking about on the iPlayer.

It found that the old balls unquestionably caused brain damaged, but that repeated headering of the modern kind also caused damage over the long term, and, indeed, short term. He took cognitive tests before and after doing a bunch of headering and it lowered his scores. In the end they found he wasn't suffering any of the serious signs or symptoms, but it was food for thought.

Ultimately, our physiology isn't intended for us to repeatedly smack our head off anything, so it's not really a surprise that doing so can have long term repercussions to health. Sport is dangerous to the body at any level however, so if nothing else it's making sure that those taking part understand the risks and willingly sign up to them. It probably wouldn't be a bad thing to either prevent or minimise the amount of headering kids are doing however.

[snooky]

Walking football has a head height rule almost universally so heading doesn't come into it … but the funny thing is that even then if the ball does go over head height folk still cant resist heading it lol :greengrin

What about a diving heider? Is that allowed in walking football or are heiders banned altogether? :dunno:

[hibbytam]

It's no longer on iplayer, but here's the documentary on youtube. Well worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMoDtIJ_b8I

[Chic Murray]

Millions of people suffer from Alzheimer’s, although a horrendous condition, and other brain diseases, but can the prove a link to heading a ball?

No.