Scarlett Johansson

[snooky]

Turned down transgender role because of pressure from LGBTQ groups.
Jeez, what next? Let's object to Robert Newton playing Long John Silver because he never really lost a leg. :rolleyes:

[speedy_gonzales]

Turned down transgender role because of pressure from LGBTQ groups.
Jeez, what next? Let's object to Robert Newton playing Long John Silver because he never really lost a leg. :rolleyes:

In today's climate, I'd doubt Daniel Day Lewis would be allowed to play an Oscar winning performance as Christy Brown in "My Left Foot",,,

I thought the whole point of acting was just that, it's acting. We had the "Whitewashing" last year, this year the pressure groups seem to be targeting gender/sex minority roles being given to actors who don't match the characters "persuasion",,,,,,

[Moulin Yarns]

Considering she has played just about everything else including a flesh eating alien I'm surprised.

[snooky]

Considering she has played just about everything else including a flesh eating alien I'm surprised.

Aw shairly no.
Cue protests from fresh eating alien pressure groups.

[ballengeich]

Any sign of Macbeth being played by a non-Scot and we should all be at the theatre protesting. In fact I'll protest anyway against the cultural appropriation inherent in an English playwright writing about a Scottish king.

[CropleyWasGod]

Isn't the point of this to raise awareness of, and provoke discussion on, issues such as transgender rights?

Which it has. Job done. ☺

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[Chic Murray]

Turned down transgender role because of pressure from LGBTQ groups.
Jeez, what next? Let's object to Robert Newton playing Long John Silver because he never really lost a leg. :rolleyes:

Utter nonsense, they need to get a grip.

You could have broken it to me more gently about Robert Newton though. All these years and I never.....

[Colr]

Any sign of Macbeth being played by a non-Scot and we should all be at the theatre protesting. In fact I'll protest anyway against the cultural appropriation inherent in an English playwright writing about a Scottish king.

Ever seen Orson Welles version?

They’ve all got doric accents!!

[Colr]

Utter nonsense, they need to get a grip.

You could have broken it to me more gently about Robert Newton though. All these years and I never.....

On that basis transgender actors should only play transgender roles.

[bigwheel]

think the concern was that there are quality trans actors who were not given the opportunity...similar to the discomfort when abled bodied Actors play those with disabilities...why not give those closer to the reality the part? Don't think people were saying it is never appropriate - just asking for some consideration. seemed reasonable to me.

[Mon Dieu4]

think the concern was that there are quality trans actors who were not given the opportunity...similar to the discomfort when abled bodied Actors play those with disabilities...why not give those closer to the reality the part? Don't think people were saying it is never appropriate - just asking for some consideration. seemed reasonable to me.

Double edged sword really, without the clout of a huge star they might not get the same financing to make the film in the first place and the fact such a huge star would be drawing attention to such a role would break down barriers as well

[snooky]

think the concern was that there are quality trans actors who were not given the opportunity...similar to the discomfort when abled bodied Actors play those with disabilities...why not give those closer to the reality the part? Don't think people were saying it is never appropriate - just asking for some consideration. seemed reasonable to me.

I think I the keyword in this whole fiasco is ACTORS. i.e. they are bleeding actors - not the real thing. A typical ott reaction we are coming to expect these days from minority groups. To me, this sort of nonsense is actually detrimental to their cause.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm still raging about Cate Blanchett playing Jude Quinn in I'm Not There. How many downtrodden male actors were overlooked for the role?

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm still raging about Cate Blanchett playing Jude Quinn in I'm Not There. How many downtrodden male actors were overlooked for the role?How did you feel about Stanley Baxter playing an Ugly Sister?

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[Pretty Boy]

How did you feel about Stanley Baxter playing an Ugly Sister?

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Wait.....that wasn't actually a woman?

[CropleyWasGod]

Wait.....that wasn't actually a woman?Gender- fluid was old Stanley [emoji16]

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[Hibby70]

How many Wookies were overlooked in '76?

[CropleyWasGod]

How many Wookies were overlooked in '76?Wannabe Koalas. They couldn't act their way out of a eucalyptus tree.

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[7 Up]

The main complaint seems to be that trans actors aren't seriously considered for non-trans roles, yet specifically trans roles are routinely taken by non-trans actors, such as Scarlett Johansson. There's a bit of a double standard there and that's what's being criticised as far as I can understand.

[Sylar]

She has form (Ghost in the Shell), so she'd no doubt have been wary about the issues of doing it again.

There's a line where it becomes silly, but there are already so few minority roles in Hollywood that actually get narrative time, that it only seems fair to give the quality actors that represent that community the opportunity. Asian actors are particularly badly overlooked in this regard (e.g., Tilda Swinton's casting in Doctor Strange and Ed Skrein's initial casting in Hellboy, which he subsequently and rightfully backed away from).

I understand that the household names sell films, and that's why casting directors etc look to them, but many of the elite actors needed that one break to become household names in the first place. If done well (Jared Leto in Dallas Buyer's Club), casting a non-minority in a minority role can be effective, so long as the actor does the necessary legwork to be sensitive to the community they're representing. But if there are quality actors that have the lived experience of a role, they should be given an initial opportunity to pursue that role.

[Hibbyradge]

She has form (Ghost in the Shell), so she'd no doubt have been wary about the issues of doing it again.

There's a line where it becomes silly, but there are already so few minority roles in Hollywood that actually get narrative time, that it only seems fair to give the quality actors that represent that community the opportunity. Asian actors are particularly badly overlooked in this regard (e.g., Tilda Swinton's casting in Doctor Strange and Ed Skrein's initial casting in Hellboy, which he subsequently and rightfully backed away from).

I understand that the household names sell films, and that's why casting directors etc look to them, but many of the elite actors needed that one break to become household names in the first place. If done well (Jared Leto in Dallas Buyer's Club), casting a non-minority in a minority role can be effective, so long as the actor does the necessary legwork to be sensitive to the community they're representing. But if there are quality actors that have the lived experience of a role, they should be given an initial opportunity to pursue that role.

You make good points, Scott.

I think it's important to try to understand the reasons for the objections before dismissing them.

[Colr]

Gender- fluid was old Stanley [emoji16]

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Stanley Baxter is still alive.

[CropleyWasGod]

Stanley Baxter is still alive.This I know, but he's settled down now [emoji6]

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[Chic Murray]

There is a thing in theatre just now, called Colour Blind Casting. The concept is that the best actor for the part gets the gig.

It extends to people with disabilities too.

I don't understand why someone who is pretending to be someone else had to be the same as that person.

An own goal from the trans lobby, I'd say.

[CropleyWasGod]

There is a thing in theatre just now, called Colour Blind Casting. The concept is that the best actor for the part gets the gig.

It extends to people with disabilities too.

I don't understand why someone who is pretending to be someone else had to be the same as that person.

An own goal from the trans lobby, I'd say.I don't see it as an own goal at all. People are talking about the issues.... QED....and that has to be a good thing.

5 years ago, it's unlikely that anything like this would have been debated on a football website. That's progress IMO.

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[Sir David Gray]

I understand the point about getting actors and actresses who are actually homosexual, disabled etc to do the role but surely the point of a film is to portray a certain theme or cause in the best way possible?

If Scarlett Johansson taking the lead role in a film is going to reach a bigger audience than someone with no real pedigree then surely that's good for the community that she is representing in the film?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not sure of the background to this but if it gets made, the first question to the lead in any publicity promo would be2 how hard was it to be second choice. The point of the film and any possible positive impact is almost lost by distraction already.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure of the background to this but if it gets made, the first question to the lead in any publicity promo would be2 how hard was it to be second choice. The point of the film and any possible positive impact is almost lost by distraction already.The history of films is littered with memorable performances from actors who were second choice. For all we know, Johansson herself was second choice.

That all said, the publicity that has already been created, before production has even started, has to have helped the film's visibility and the size of its eventual audience.

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[The Modfather]

The history of films is littered with memorable performances from actors who were second choice. For all we know, Johansson herself was second choice.

That all said, the publicity that has already been created, before production has even started, has to have helped the film's visibility and the size of its eventual audience.

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Not for me, I’m less likely to go see a film that appears to have an aspect of being politicised, rather than going to see it based on the merits of the story or entertainment value.

The Ghostbusters reboot being an example. Aside from the fact the trailers made it look dire. The director and producer appeared to actively try and politicise the gender debate more than sell the film on the merits of its quality. Of course it will have faced sexism from those who won’t go see it because it’s a female re-boot but it felt like there wasn’t any room for criticism of the film without it automatically being labelled as sexist.

[Chic Murray]

I don't see it as an own goal at all. People are talking about the issues.... QED....and that has to be a good thing.

5 years ago, it's unlikely that anything like this would have been debated on a football website. That's progress IMO.

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I'm thinking they are not thinking consistently. It has to cut all ways.

[bigwheel]

I think I the keyword in this whole fiasco is ACTORS. i.e. they are bleeding actors - not the real thing. A typical ott reaction we are coming to expect these days from minority groups. To me, this sort of nonsense is actually detrimental to their cause.

Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...

[snooky]

Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...

Fair enough x 2 however, what I see in this is a form of self pity.
It's that conflicting view point again (a-la terrorist/ freedom fighter).
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, BW.

[Chic Murray]

Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...

Tell a white actor who has lost out on a traditionally white part, like MacBeth, that he isn't allowed to play a trans sexual, because he isn't one.

If you feel minorities should be allowed positive discrimination, fair enough. If you think that everyone should have the same chances, then you may have a problem.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The history of films is littered with memorable performances from actors who were second choice. For all we know, Johansson herself was second choice.

That all said, the publicity that has already been created, before production has even started, has to have helped the film's visibility and the size of its eventual audience.

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I can't recall any hoohah over the Danish Girl? Only positive comments with regards to the sensitivity of the lead performance. No doubt that the frame of reference has moved on both for the good and for the bad but that said, I wonder what a studio executive would say today, if the script for The Crying Game dropped on his or her desk?

[bigwheel]

Tell a white actor who has lost out on a traditionally white part, like MacBeth, that he isn't allowed to play a trans sexual, because he isn't one.

If you feel minorities should be allowed positive discrimination, fair enough. If you think that everyone should have the same chances, then you may have a problem.

Chic. I suspect you and I look at the world through different lenses...minorities get less opportunity than “white actors”...my view is that if you want an authentic portrayal of life with disabilities..then actively seek out actors who have some Life experience of this if you can find someone fit for the part that way, then I’d actively encourage it...it will better represent their voice in the world of entertainment...if you can’t fair enough , widen the selection pool. Equally if you choose not to seek out people with that life experience- then that’s their free choice - but it is a missed opportunity for me

Minorities aren’t playing with an equal card deck in any workplace ...to get diversity represented you have create a diverse sample of the population to choose from .

[Chic Murray]

Chic. I suspect you and I look at the world through different lenses...minorities get less opportunity than “white actors”...my view is that if you want an authentic portrayal of life with disabilities..then actively seek out actors who have some Life experience of this if you can find someone fit for the part that way, then I’d actively encourage it...it will better represent their voice in the world of entertainment...if you can’t fair enough , widen the selection pool. Equally if you choose not to seek out people with that life experience- then that’s their free choice - but it is a missed opportunity for me

Minorities aren’t playing with an equal card deck in any workplace ...to get diversity represented you have create a diverse sample of the population to choose from .

I appreciate your stance and can't object to it. If it's about positive discrimination and that helps,fair enough.

Funny thing is, I went to see Everyman at the National a couple of years back

One of the actors had dwarfism. There comes a part where the entire cast dress up as piles of rubbish to illustrate that whoever you are you live the same **** lives

All the piles rubbish ,except one, were the same height. Can you see the irony?

Speaking to the actors after, even they thought it was stupid

[Radium]

Not sure that my opinion is fully formed around what actors are chosen and suspect that a lot of it will be case by case.

In this one it seems strange that SJ is receiving such high profile criticism when we have just had a movie released where the male star impersonates a lower leg amputee.

Suspect it will be driven the hot topic of the day.

Saw this and thought it was a reasonable take on an actors craft

https://twitter.com/bbccomedy/status/1017465901740974080?s=21


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[bigwheel]

I appreciate your stance and can't object to it. If it's about positive discrimination and that helps,fair enough.

Funny thing is, I went to see Everyman at the National a couple of years back

One of the actors had dwarfism. There comes a part where the entire cast dress up as piles of rubbish to illustrate that whoever you are you live the same **** lives

All the piles rubbish ,except one, were the same height. Can you see the irony?

Speaking to the actors after, even they thought it was stupid

I'm not really suggesting positive discrimination..that would suggest I want to engineer someone suffering discrimination to get the role....I'm suggesting that it would be better practice to ensure (in this case) trans actors were actively considered, and given the chance...that directors create a diverse pool to choose from. If they then don't get the role.then so be it...the claims in this case is that trans actors were not getting auditions, let alone the part...




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[Chic Murray]

I'm not really suggesting positive discrimination..that would suggest I want to engineer someone suffering discrimination to get the role....I'm suggesting that it would be better practice to ensure (in this case) trans actors were actively considered, and given the chance...that directors create a diverse pool to choose from. If they then don't get the role.then so be it...the claims in this case is that trans actors were not getting auditions, let alone the part...




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Was it because the director was prejudiced against trans sexuals, or against crap actors?

If you're up against Scarlett Johansson who, I believe, is still box office, and the only part of note you have is in [edit: a really obscure film], who's going to get the gig. :greengrin

[WeeRussell]

The main complaint seems to be that trans actors aren't seriously considered for non-trans roles, yet specifically trans roles are routinely taken by non-trans actors, such as Scarlett Johansson. There's a bit of a double standard there and that's what's being criticised as far as I can understand.

But presumably there are far less transgender actors/actresses in the world than there are non transgender. The better and high profile actors and actresses are largely non transgender.

I don’t get the problem.

[Colr]

There is a thing in theatre just now, called Colour Blind Casting. The concept is that the best actor for the part gets the gig.

It extends to people with disabilities too.

I don't understand why someone who is pretending to be someone else had to be the same as that person.

An own goal from the trans lobby, I'd say.

Can work really well.

I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play I’ve seen and worked much better with Brutus than I’ve seen with male actors.

Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.

[beensaidbefore]

Can work really well.

I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play I’ve seen and worked much better with Brutus than I’ve seen with male actors.

Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.

Wonder why there was no moaning about the roles not going to men? Highlights why 'positive discrimination' is a bit of a joke imo.

[bigwheel]

Wonder why there was no moaning about the roles not going to men? Highlights why 'positive discrimination' is a bit of a joke imo.


I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.

[Chic Murray]

Can work really well.

I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play I’ve seen and worked much better with Brutus than I’ve seen with male actors.

Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.

I agree, although I felt a bit stupid at a performance of A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney Carton was played by a white actor, and Charles Darnay (supposedly his double) was played by a black actor. At one point, Carton says, "does this man look like me". I thought it was a joke, much later the penny dropped that the only difference between them was the colour of their skin and that in practically every other aspect, they had the same build and features.

[Colr]

I agree, although I felt a bit stupid at a performance of A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney Carton was played by a white actor, and Charles Darnay (supposedly his double) was played by a black actor. At one point, Carton says, "does this man look like me". I thought it was a joke, much later the penny dropped that the only difference between them was the colour of their skin and that in practically every other aspect, they had the same build and features.

I was at that and you’re right it was utterly silly but I guess they were making a point about immigrants. Just not very well.

The whole play mis-fired quite a lot. Fortunately, it was rained off half way through, then again when I rebooked, so I’ve got two tickets for this year to use up.

That said, I would rather go to something where they have tried something different and not quite pulled it off than some more staid and predictable performance. Scottish actor was quite good (can’t remember his name) but he is also in Macbeth at the National which mis-fires in a similar way. I’ll avoid him in future. Too white and male anyway!!

[beensaidbefore]

[QUOTE=bigwheel;5466476]I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.[/QUOTE

I understand your point, but discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it is seen as positive.

If we are advocating trans roles for trans people, then surely that should mean men get male roles?

[bigwheel]

[QUOTE=bigwheel;5466476]I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.[/QUOTE

I understand your point, but discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it is seen as positive.

If we are advocating trans roles for trans people, then surely that should mean men get male roles?

Lol. Does that not almost always happen ?? [emoji2]

[beensaidbefore]

[QUOTE=beensaidbefore;5466966]

Lol. Does that not almost always happen ?? [emoji2]

Not according to the post i originally replied to. Although in the majority of cases it does.

[snooky]

Pantomime horses should be banned. There are plenty unemployed real ones available for the part. No fair!

[Greentinted]

Without appearing glib, I noticed a poster for a Rebus stage adaptation coming to The Kings starring Charles Lawson in the title role. A fine performer no doubt but my first thought was ‘there’s clearly a shortage of Edinburgh actors then!’

[Colr]

I notice that the new lesbian Batwoman is to be played by a straight blonde actress.

Surely they could have found a ginger actress for the role. Discrimination which affects opportunities for Scottish actresses!!

[Mibbes Aye]

I recently re-watched the 70s cinematic classic Taxi Driver, featuring an Oscar-winning performance in the lead role from Robert De Niro.

Despite the quality of his acting, it left a rather sour taste in the mouth to realise a genuine cabbie hadn't been selected for the role, or possibly even considered

Shame on you Mr Martin Scorsese, shame indeed.

[Chic Murray]

Sir

If it was as simple as only giving parts to people who have life experience of their role, I wouldn't be where I am today.

M. Mouse, Burbank.