England Semi

[SirDavidsNapper]

Who will the Rangers fans be supporting now?

[Lago]

Who will the Rangers fans be supporting now?

Let me guess, the rangers ? Tricky that one.:agree:

[Kavinho]

England fans scrapping in our hotel in Turkey. Absolute animals when they lose, women and children running for cover.

Should've come to Croatia..
It's a riot here!!

[MrSmith]

Which party is that then?

Hello, you again ...

[Bostonhibby]

I'll just put this out there20981

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[ian cruise]

They’ve lost to the only decent team they’ve played - a team who most wouldn’t put in their top 5.

I'm no huge England supporter, just someone who's watched Hibs enough to be wary of such statements! Let's wait until after the weekend before we pass comment on how good this Croatia team are, they may just win the thing.

[Hibbyradge]

Hello, you again ...

I'm interested too.

Which party is SIU?

Or are you being enigmatic?

[Since90+2]

Well the whole England adventure has certainly served the useful purpose of differentiating between the people who wanted England to lose because of football rivalry or due to the behaviour of their commentators and those who are just off the scale embarrassingly wibbling at the moon with their anti-Englishness.

Feels good though I won't lie. Unlucky though. Only another 4 years till they get another chance. Shame.

[bodhibs]

I'm a massive wibbler, I wibble whenever I can, mon the wibbs

[One Day Soon]

Hello, you again ...

So, which party is it?

[ehf]

Jode Nendisson totally anonymous tonight.

[Since90+2]

I'm a massive wibbler, I wibble whenever I can, mon the wibbs

Wibbles coming home.

[One Day Soon]

Sorry, I meant throbbers and wibblers. I'm getting forgetful in my old age. :wink:

[bodhibs]

Sorry, I meant throbbers and wibblers. I'm getting forgetful in my old age. :wink:

I'm not a massive throbber

[IGRIGI]

****ing hilarious seeing people trying to bum up this England team 😂.

"They will win the Euros". ****ing beyond belief.

They just got pumped out the World Cup having avoided the following,

France
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Brazil
Belgium
Argentina
Uruguay

Not mentioning Italy and the Netherlands who will get their act back together.

They beat the powerhouses of football Tunisia and Panama, Columbia without Rodriguez on penalties, a ***** Sweden, and then got pumped out by a Croatia team that had to play 120+ minutes twice in the previous rounds.

But yeah, the best team that we've ever witnessed, the most talented young team ever to grace us with their presence.

'Kin hell 😂😂

[Hibbyradge]

****ing hilarious seeing people trying to bum up this England team 😂.

"They will win the Euros". ****ing beyond belief.

But yeah, the best team that we've ever witnessed, the most talented young team ever to grace us with their presence.

'Kin hell 😂😂

Has anyone said any of that?

[One Day Soon]

I'm not a massive throbber

Splendid.

[SquashedFrogg]

I'm a massive wibbler, I wibble whenever I can, mon the wibbs

Love nothing better than a good wibble

[bodhibs]

Splendid.

My missus disagrees 😂

[One Day Soon]

Has anyone said any of that?

McGlashan-tastic stuff.

[One Day Soon]

My missus disagrees 😂

Have you tried offering a small throbber twice instead?

[bodhibs]

Have you tried offering a small throbber twice instead?

Often, unaccommodating

[Since90+2]

McGlashan-tastic stuff.

Cheer up man eh. England have the 3rd/4th playoff to win.

[One Day Soon]

Often, unaccommodating

You can only envy England's semi then.

[bodhibs]

You can only envy England's semi then.

Tis a thing to behold

[Bristolhibby]

If a player tackled studs up and square into the knee its a red card, especially if they ont play the ball with the studs up straight leg. If its a keeper its a good save?

Exactly what I said to my English mate this evening. And his exact response.

J

[One Day Soon]

Cheer up man eh. England have the 3rd/4th playoff to win.

I'm very cheerful, off on holiday on Saturday. And there's free Absolutely on .net.

[Bristolhibby]

My mate's in Greece and just text me saying similar. They just can't handle it when they get pumped oot. Feel for them :greengrin.

Don’t feel for those idiots, feel for the real England fans who travel to Kazakstan for a qualifier.

Walloper, band wagon jumping, it’s coming homing, scrapping when emptied fuds can go do one.

They give England a bad name.

J

[Bristolhibby]

Great from Irvine Welsh on Twitter -

Beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden. Drew with Colombia. Lost to Belgium and Croatia. When the dust settles and people get past the emotion there were actually no real surprises from England.

[Since90+2]

I'm very cheerful, off on holiday on Saturday. And there's free Absolutely on .net.

Good stuff. Hope you enjoy the 3rd place play off :thumbsup:

[SirDavidsNapper]

England bottled the best chance they'll ever get to win the world cup. Their pundits can dress it up however they like but with all the big teams going out and England being the highest ranked team left on their side of the draw they've missed a golden opportunity. Making the final should have been a formality especially against a Croatian side out on their feet.

[bodhibs]

Great from Irvine Welsh on Twitter -

Beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden. Drew with Colombia. Lost to Belgium and Croatia. When the dust settles and people get past the emotion there were actually no real surprises from England.

Love it, spot on 👍

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

hahahahahhaha, what a result, football's coming home my ar$e!!!!!

[One Day Soon]

Good stuff. Hope you enjoy the 3rd place play off :thumbsup:

I don't know how to break this to you...

[GreenOnions]

Great from Irvine Welsh on Twitter -

Beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden. Drew with Colombia. Lost to Belgium and Croatia. When the dust settles and people get past the emotion there were actually no real surprises from England.

There's always something a little distasteful IMHO about those derive so much pleasure from the demise of others. Get a life Mr Welsh

[Spike Mandela]

There's always something a little distasteful IMHO about those derive so much pleasure from the demise of others. Get a life Mr Welsh

They made a word for it.....

Schadenfreude.

Love that word.

[GreenOnions]

They made a word for it.....

Schadenfreude.

Love that word.

It is a good word - yes.

Often witnessed when losers are trying to justify their own lack of achievement

[Bristolhibby]

It is a good word - yes.

Often witnessed when losers are trying to justify their own lack of achievement

Is Irvine Welsh a loser? Man, I need to up my game.

J

[GreenOnions]

Is Irvine Welsh a loser? Man, I need to up my game.

J

Fair point - no-one is perfect though eh?

[Deansy]

England bottled the best chance they'll ever get to win the world cup. Their pundits can dress it up however they like but with all the big teams going out and England being the highest ranked team left on their side of the draw they've missed a golden opportunity. Making the final should have been a formality especially against a Croatian side out on their feet.

:top marks

[Haymaker]

I know quite a few lads who have travelled over during the course of the tournament and quite a few for tonight with open tickets depending on the result. Genuinely feel for them. The beer chucking ambulance jumpers can GTF though. Still time for an equaliser, mind.

So do I. In fact a few of my mates do every England game, one walked on his job to be in Moscow for both the semi and final. Gutted for them as they spend all their free time doing overtime so they can travel all over.

But still... Get in Croatia

[MrSmith]

I'm interested too.

Which party is SIU?

Or are you being enigmatic?

no mystery at all, the SIU are not a party as such but are a unionist movement funded by some shady characters attempting to derail both the SNP and the independence movement. Their aim is to invade social media to spread misinformation and lies while attempting to garner anti-English responses from Scots.

Check out Twitter for more examples.

[Sammy7nil]

Has anyone said any of that?

I think it is quotes from the ITV and BBC transcript of last night's programmes :wink:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Exactly what I said to my English mate this evening. And his exact response.

J

Massive bug bear of mine with fitba - keepers are always allowed to make challenges that would be a straight red by outfield players.

[Clarence]

There's always something a little distasteful IMHO about those derive so much pleasure from the demise of others. Get a life Mr Welsh

Where is the pleasure? He’s just being objective.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

:top marks

Kinda agree with this - it's almost as if the 'unlucky, brave lions' thing was written at the start of the torunament, all because the England camp were nice to journalists. But we in Scotland know how succulent fitba journo can be.

I don't see how they have over achieved - the beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden, lost to Belgium and croatia, and drew with Colombia- I wouldn't say that is above par for England.

I think they have been good to watch, but it's probably more of a damning indictment on previous England teams that this is being seen as some sort of glorious effort.

Ironically, Southgate seems to be the one making the point that they lost!

I can't see another tournament opening up like this - the euros are far harder to win than the world cup, and this was a world cup minus Italy (perennial challengers) and also Holland (often challengers).

The did better, but I don't they have excelled. They didn't beat a single team that they they shouldn't have.

[jacomo]

A young inexperienced team, who were "nothing special" (your words) , still managed to get to the Semis - in 2 years they will be even better than they are now.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


They will improve for sure, but in the cold light of day England have a long way to go. Their run did flatter them a bit, because the other semi final looked a cut above in terms of quality.

[jacomo]

Kinda agree with this - it's almost as if the 'unlucky, brave lions' thing was written at the start of the torunament, all because the England camp were nice to journalists. But we in Scotland know how succulent fitba journo can be.

I don't see how they have over achieved - the beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden, lost to Belgium and croatia, and drew with Colombia- I wouldn't say that is above par for England.

I think they have been good to watch, but it's probably more of a damning indictment on previous England teams that this is being seen as some sort of glorious effort.

Ironically, Southgate seems to be the one making the point that they lost!

I can't see another tournament opening up like this - the euros are far harder to win than the world cup, and this was a world cup minus Italy (perennial challengers) and also Holland (often challengers).

The did better, but I don't they have excelled. They didn't beat a single team that they they shouldn't have.


:agree:

ITN was almost beyond parody last night, a eulogy to ‘Southgate’s heroes’ set to piano music.

[madhatter]

There's always something a little distasteful IMHO about those derive so much pleasure from the demise of others. Get a life Mr Welsh

You cry and console Hearts fans when they lose a game? Never worked out why ER always celebrates the loudest in the derbies, I’m sure there is a reason...:confused:

People will derive much pleasure from another team losing because they’ve put cash on their opponent to win, people will derive so much pleasure if they support France and they win, to the detriment of Croatia. This kind of stuff always comes up when England lose, why are we to have some sort of sympathy all of a sudden? It’s football, are we all going to have hugs outside ER after derbies soon? Should I laugh or cry when Hearts get knocked out of the cups?

People can make “distasteful” comments (as you put it), people can celebrate in the stand giving it the giruy and still remain civilised in every day life.

If England won, I’m sure English fans won’t have put distasteful comments up about Croatia, they are all above such things...Sorry but this support England or have sympathy for them is almost indicative of attempts to slowly indoctrinate people into a belief that we should be 100% behind them.

[Peevemor]

Where is the pleasure? He’s just being objective.

:agree: Exactly, he's certainly not rubbing it in.

[blackpoolhibs]

Well well well, isn't this a lovely day, quiet but lovely? :wink:

[we are hibs]

Hi, can anyone advise why sky aren't showing the English reaction to the Croatian equaliser and winner? And where is Ian Wright and the rests reaction to the two goals?

[HiBremian]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/11/croatia-motivated-lack-of-respect-england-luka-modric

Interesting piece about the Croatian perspective. Seems the English media’s sense of entitlement came back to bite.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mjhibby]

Kinda agree with this - it's almost as if the 'unlucky, brave lions' thing was written at the start of the torunament, all because the England camp were nice to journalists. But we in Scotland know how succulent fitba journo can be.

I don't see how they have over achieved - the beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden, lost to Belgium and croatia, and drew with Colombia- I wouldn't say that is above par for England.

I think they have been good to watch, but it's probably more of a damning indictment on previous England teams that this is being seen as some sort of glorious effort.

Ironically, Southgate seems to be the one making the point that they lost!

I can't see another tournament opening up like this - the euros are far harder to win than the world cup, and this was a world cup minus Italy (perennial challengers) and also Holland (often challengers).

The did better, but I don't they have excelled. They didn't beat a single team that they they shouldn't have.

My feelings exactly. They were beaten by the better team. The difference was in the midfield. England don't have the quality there that other teams do. They actually played well till Croatia scored but apart from the mcguire header offer little. It was their best chance of winning it in my lifetime but unless they can discover a Gascoigne type and debruyne quality midfielder, how far they go in tournaments will depend on the draw. Had me worried I have to admit.

[One Day Soon]

My feelings exactly. They were beaten by the better team. The difference was in the midfield. England don't have the quality there that other teams do. They actually played well till Croatia scored but apart from the mcguire header offer little. It was their best chance of winning it in my lifetime but unless they can discover a Gascoigne type and debruyne quality midfielder, how far they go in tournaments will depend on the draw. Had me worried I have to admit.


:agree:

They're one or two top class players and a bunch more experience away from being genuine contenders and that sort of thing isn't something you can go out and buy, unlike club football. The midfield just lacks that bit of guile. Next time round many other nations will have improved too though so it's not going to get any easier for them. I would have been relaxed about them winning it so worry wasn't really part of the equation for me.

Germany won't be that bad again for a long time. Italy's new manager and their younger prospects will qualify and will be contenders. Don't know enough about Holland to say whether they are on an upward path. Argentina on the other hand I can only see weakening for a while. Brazil need a long hard look at where playing in the European style is getting them. I just don't understand what is going on with Spain, I'm not sure they do either.

It's been interesting to see the sides with superstars not really punching their weight properly - Neymar/Brazil, Ronaldo/Portugal, Messi/Argentina. I almost got the impression that they would have been stronger without them because it would have forced them to play as whole teams rather than superstar plus ten.

Unfortunately our biggest challenge is likely to be picking another country to support when we don't make it - again. Can we really be absent from the World Cup finals for what will be almost a quarter of a century?

Over to Alex McLeish...:dunno:

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree:

They're one or two top class players and a bunch more experience away from being genuine contenders and that sort of thing isn't something you can go out and buy, unlike club football. The midfield just lacks that bit of guile. Next time round many other nations will have improved too though so it's not going to get any easier for them. I would have been relaxed about them winning it so worry wasn't really part of the equation for me.

Germany won't be that bad again for a long time. Italy's new manager and their younger prospects will qualify and will be contenders. Don't know enough about Holland to say whether they are on an upward path. Argentina on the other hand I can only see weakening for a while. Brazil need a long hard look at where playing in the European style is getting them. I just don't understand what is going on with Spain, I'm not sure they do either.

It's been interesting to see the sides with superstars not really punching their weight properly - Neymar/Brazil, Ronaldo/Portugal, Messi/Argentina. I almost got the impression that they would have been stronger without them because it would have forced them to play as whole teams rather than superstar plus ten.

Unfortunately our biggest challenge is likely to be picking another country to support when we don't make it - again. Can we really be absent from the World Cup finals for what will be almost a quarter of a century?

Over to Alex McLeish...:dunno:

We have a large percentage of our support who are happy to laugh at our national team, who take delight in whenever we lose a goal or a game.

They have all the answers about playing youngsters, yet when we do play them and lose its the managers tactics.

There's a lot more wrong than the players and managers with Scotland, the way the whole game is set up in the country, is not for the benefit of our national team, its for the benefit of two teams, and the lackeys who are in charge.

Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.

[Hibbyradge]

We have a large percentage of our support who are happy to laugh at our national team, who take delight in whenever we lose a goal or a game.

They have all the answers about playing youngsters, yet when we do play them and lose its the managers tactics.

There's a lot more wrong than the players and managers with Scotland, the way the whole game is set up in the country, is not for the benefit of our national team, its for the benefit of two teams, and the lackeys who are in charge.

Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.

There are a lot of English people who mocked their national team before this tournament.

I think it's a coping strategy for folk who don't like being permanently disappointed.

If Scotland do qualify for the Euros or the next WC, people will get behind the team and be excited at our prospects.

[blackpoolhibs]

There are a lot of English people who mocked their national team before this tournament.

I think it's a coping strategy for folk who don't like being permanently disappointed.

If Scotland do qualify for the Euros or the next WC, people will get behind the team and be excited at our prospects.

Bloody snowflakes, they need to man up and channel their support towards the team and nation. They take great delight when we lose a goal, give a penalty away or even lose.

When we do win, its not enough, we should be winning against (insert team here) They actually want us to lose, so they can tell us how bad we are.

As i said earlier, your default position as a football fan who's Scottish should be to get behind them.

[Hibbyradge]

My feelings exactly. They were beaten by the better team. The difference was in the midfield. England don't have the quality there that other teams do. They actually played well till Croatia scored but apart from the mcguire header offer little. It was their best chance of winning it in my lifetime but unless they can discover a Gascoigne type and debruyne quality midfielder, how far they go in tournaments will depend on the draw. Had me worried I have to admit.

England could and should have had the game seen up by half time. If either or both of those chances had gone in, they'd be in the final. Kane's misses in particular was hard to believe.

Unfortunately, England's expectations will have risen markedly and unless they sort out their midfield, more disappointment will be in its way for their fans.

[Hibbyradge]

Bloody snowflakes, they need to man up and channel their support towards the team and nation. They take great delight when we lose a goal, give a penalty away or even lose.

When we do win, its not enough, we should be winning against (insert team here) They actually want us to lose, so they can tell us how bad we are.

As i said earlier, your default position as a football fan who's Scottish should be to get behind them.

I've not encountered anyone who actively want us to lose. If that's the case then they're ****holes.

I agree with your last paragraph although I can understand people losing interest in the national team when performances and results are regularly poor and disappointing.

We continue to live in hope though.

[Pagan Hibernia]

They had a fortunate draw and an unbelievable chance to do it, and they blew it. Shame.

[One Day Soon]

We have a large percentage of our support who are happy to laugh at our national team, who take delight in whenever we lose a goal or a game.

They have all the answers about playing youngsters, yet when we do play them and lose its the managers tactics.

There's a lot more wrong than the players and managers with Scotland, the way the whole game is set up in the country, is not for the benefit of our national team, its for the benefit of two teams, and the lackeys who are in charge.

Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.


Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results = failure. Repeatedly.

Something stinks here though. We managed to qualify from '74 through to '90 continuously and there's no way Scottish Football wasn't dominated by, and run in the interests of, the Ugly Sisters then. The SFA would have been even less transparent, even more backward and even more in thrall to the Uglies in that period. So other much wider factors have to be at play too.

I wasn't wild about Craig Brown but at least he got us to the Euros and a World Cup (although largely I would argue on the back of the legacy left by Andy Roxburgh's tenure as manager). From then onward the list of managers has been largely a dirge list of the unadventurous and the steady-as-she-goes-stick-with-the-players-I-know types: Vogts, Burns, Smith, McLeish, Burley, Levein, Stark, Strachan, Mackay and now McLeish again.

Interestingly McLeish has the highest all time win percentage of any Scotland manager (aside from one game wonders like Stark) from his previous tenure - 7 wins from 10. So maybe McLeish will be the answer.

Can't agree with your last sentence. I don't think fans get the team they deserve, I think they're driven to indifference by the teams they are given. Crowds have a role to play in international fixtures, no doubt about that, but by the time the day of any individual game has arrived 90% of what will affect the result has already taken place - squad selection, training, training facilities, psychology, tactics, fitness, leadership, team selection, team formation, choice of captain, media treatment etc. The fans are the very last people in a long chain who should carry any responsibility.

Failing to qualify for a World Cup Finals for 20 years means we need to be doing something or somethings differently. The real question for me is - what has changed since that '74 to '90 period?

[mjhibby]

England could and should have had the game seen up by half time. If either or both of those chances had gone in, they'd be in the final. Kane's misses in particular was hard to believe.

Unfortunately, England's expectations will have risen markedly and unless they sort out their midfield, more disappointment will be in its way for their fans.

Croatia took their chances which is the difference at the highest level. Croatia always been a good side but haven't performed as their talents suggest they should have. Pity that it wasn't a Belgium France final as I think they have been the best teams. Belgium needed another striker beside lukaku then they would have beaten France I think. Yes expectations will be raised way above realistic which will make the fall sweeter for us and more painful for them. Aww.

[Posh Swanny]

Where is the pleasure? He’s just being objective.

He's wrong though. England cruising to a couple of wins in games we were expected to win AND winning a penalty shoot-out was very surprising based on our recent and not so recent record in tournaments! :wink:

[Johnny Clash]

They had a fortunate draw and an unbelievable chance to do it, and they blew it. Shame.


Yep and I’m pretty sure every team they played (with exception of Belgium who won) are ranked below them.

[Chic Murray]

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results = failure. Repeatedly.

Something stinks here though. We managed to qualify from '74 through to '90 continuously and there's no way Scottish Football wasn't dominated by, and run in the interests of, the Ugly Sisters then. The SFA would have been even less transparent, even more backward and even more in thrall to the Uglies in that period. So other much wider factors have to be at play too.

I wasn't wild about Craig Brown but at least he got us to the Euros and a World Cup (although largely I would argue on the back of the legacy left by Andy Roxburgh's tenure as manager). From then onward the list of managers has been largely a dirge list of the unadventurous and the steady-as-she-goes-stick-with-the-players-I-know types: Vogts, Burns, Smith, McLeish, Burley, Levein, Stark, Strachan, Mackay and now McLeish again.

Interestingly McLeish has the highest all time win percentage of any Scotland manager (aside from one game wonders like Stark) from his previous tenure - 7 wins from 10. So maybe McLeish will be the answer.

Can't agree with your last sentence. I don't think fans get the team they deserve, I think they're driven to indifference by the teams they are given. Crowds have a role to play in international fixtures, no doubt about that, but by the time the day of any individual game has arrived 90% of what will affect the result has already taken place - squad selection, training, training facilities, psychology, tactics, fitness, leadership, team selection, team formation, choice of captain, media treatment etc. The fans are the very last people in a long chain who should carry any responsibility.

Failing to qualify for a World Cup Finals for 20 years means we need to be doing something or somethings differently. The real question for me is - what has changed since that '74 to '90 period?

The difference in those days was that every top flight English team had at least one Scot in it, and we also had "the New Firm". Token OF players were included in squads but rarely played.

[Kato]

.

Interestingly McLeish has the highest all time win percentage of any Scotland manager (aside from one game . The real question for me is - what has changed since that '74 to '90 period?

We don't produce enough players and because of that we don't produce enough players with the required quality or mindset.

Most if not all of the players from 74-90 would have started playing football on the street. That doesn't happen any more and the facilities to get swathes of youngsters playing have yet to be built. Look to Iceland where they had a plan, build facilities and train coaches, its not rocket science, just science. The SFA just don't seem interested enough in modernising development and would rather stumble along with a culture that just doesn't hack it in the modern age.

[Mikey09]

We don't produce enough players and because of that we don't produce enough players with the required quality or mindset.

Most if not all of the players from 74-90 would have started playing football on the street. That doesn't happen any more and the facilities to get swathes of youngsters playing have yet to be built. Look to Iceland where they had a plan, build facilities and train coaches, its not rocket science, just science. The SFA just don't seem interested enough in modernising development and would rather stumble along with a culture that just doesn't hack it in the modern age.


Fantastic post.

[cabbageandribs1875]

We have a large percentage of our support who are happy to laugh at our national team, who take delight in whenever we lose a goal or a game.

They have all the answers about playing youngsters, yet when we do play them and lose its the managers tactics.

There's a lot more wrong than the players and managers with Scotland, the way the whole game is set up in the country, is not for the benefit of our national team, its for the benefit of two teams, and the lackeys who are in charge.

Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.



absolutely 110% :agree:

[The Modfather]

We don't produce enough players and because of that we don't produce enough players with the required quality or mindset.

Most if not all of the players from 74-90 would have started playing football on the street. That doesn't happen any more and the facilities to get swathes of youngsters playing have yet to be built. Look to Iceland where they had a plan, build facilities and train coaches, its not rocket science, just science. The SFA just don't seem interested enough in modernising development and would rather stumble along with a culture that just doesn't hack it in the modern age.

Spot on. I’ve got tickets to see Henry McLeish at the book festival next month talking about the review of Scottish football he did. Looking forward to it. Should be interesting, if also quite depressing.

[Kato]

Spot on. I’ve got tickets to see Henry McLeish at the book festival next month talking about the review of Scottish football he did. Looking forward to it. Should be interesting, if also quite depressing.

I wonder what the SFA did with his review?

[Big_Franck]

I've not encountered anyone who actively want us to lose. If that's the case then they're ****holes.

I agree with your last paragraph although I can understand people losing interest in the national team when performances and results are regularly poor and disappointing.

We continue to live in hope though.

It's maybe more common than you realise. I know 3 people that actively support Scotland's rivals and are delighted when Scotland lose. They revel in it, it's very strange behaviour. Two of them are jambos and one is a sevco fan. They are all bigoted, extremely bitter, self-loathing scots.

Try telling people from other parts of the world that some people that are born and raised in Scotland don't support Scotland. It's very difficult to explain.

[The Modfather]

I wonder what the SFA did with his review?

Binned it and looked at the next batch of those on the gravy train and came up with the likes of Petrie to turn our nations footballing fortunes around would be guess.

[heidtheba]

We don't produce enough players and because of that we don't produce enough players with the required quality or mindset.

Most if not all of the players from 74-90 would have started playing football on the street. That doesn't happen any more and the facilities to get swathes of youngsters playing have yet to be built. Look to Iceland where they had a plan, build facilities and train coaches, its not rocket science, just science. The SFA just don't seem interested enough in modernising development and would rather stumble along with a culture that just doesn't hack it in the modern age.

I think one problem we have is players who have their heads turned by much larger wages down south or with the Old Firm. I can’t blame them, but we don’t manage to ‘grow’ players and give them experience within a hopefully supportive club environment. They either go to the Old Firm, where I think they win more but with a lot less need for individual skill or effort, or they go down south and do the square root of naff all because they aren’t ready to play at the level they are needed to. That’s not to say that down south is a better level, but it is different and there’s so much cash around that players don’t seem to get as much time to bed in. Take Cummings as an example, wasnt able to do much at Nottingham Forestor didn’t get enough try and then found himself at The Rangers with a poor season ahead of him. If we had been in the top league with McGinn for three years there’s no danger we’d have kept him that long. Too many players bought from Scottish clubs easily by big English money and too big a financial gulf between us and the Old Firm. They can buy played as an investment or as a way to stop rivals appearing. That’s great for them but poorer for Scottish football.

[Kato]

I think one problem we have is players who have their heads turned by much larger wages down south or with the Old Firm. I can’t blame them, but we don’t manage to ‘grow’ players and give them experience within a hopefully supportive club environment. They either go to the Old Firm, where I think they win more but with a lot less need for individual skill or effort, or they go down south and do the square root of naff all because they aren’t ready to play at the level they are needed to. That’s not to say that down south is a better level, but it is different and there’s so much cash around that players don’t seem to get as much time to bed in. Take Cummings as an example, wasnt able to do much at Nottingham Forestor didn’t get enough try and then found himself at The Rangers with a poor season ahead of him. If we had been in the top league with McGinn for three years there’s no danger we’d have kept him that long. Too many players bought from Scottish clubs easily by big English money and too big a financial gulf between us and the Old Firm. They can buy played as an investment or as a way to stop rivals appearing. That’s great for them but poorer for Scottish football.

There are zero problems with the players that are already developed other than there isn't enough of them.

The problem lies with the lack of any foresight, plan or investment in turning hundreds of kids playing football into thousands.

[One Day Soon]

There are zero problems with the players that are already developed other than there isn't enough of them.

The problem lies with the lack of any foresight, plan or investment in turning hundreds of kids playing football into thousands.

Certainly feels more like this to me.

[Hi Heid Yin]

We don't produce enough players and because of that we don't produce enough players with the required quality or mindset.

Most if not all of the players from 74-90 would have started playing football on the street. That doesn't happen any more and the facilities to get swathes of youngsters playing have yet to be built. Look to Iceland where they had a plan, build facilities and train coaches, its not rocket science, just science. The SFA just don't seem interested enough in modernising development and would rather stumble along with a culture that just doesn't hack it in the modern age.

Spot on. The players that came through then were, in some cases, genuine world class (Dalglish, Hansen, Sounness, McGrain)
It was a Golden Age for Scottish football - An era now long gone and never to be repeated.
I said in another thread that similar sized small footballing nations have since caught up and over taken us - thus we now jostle with dozens of other also-rans in the footballing pecking order.
We punched above our size for decades, and those of us who were around will never forget The World Cup of 1974 - going out of the tournament undefeated and drawing with the then World Champions, Brazil.

[Kato]

Spot on. The players that came through then were, in some cases, genuine world class (Dalglish, Hansen, Sounness, McGrain)
It was a Golden Age for Scottish football - An era now long gone and never to be repeated.
I said in another thread that similar sized small footballing nations have since caught up and over taken us - thus we now jostle with dozens of other also-rans in the footballing pecking order.
We punched above our size for decades, and those of us who were around will never forget The World Cup of 1974 - going out of the tournament undefeated and drawing with the then World Champions, Brazil.

If other smaller countries have overtaken us what are they doing that we aren't?

[Hi Heid Yin]

If other smaller countries have overtaken us what are they doing that we aren't?

They don't have to fight a governing body that is hell-bent on maintaining a duopoly.

[G B Young]

They had a fortunate draw and an unbelievable chance to do it, and they blew it. Shame.

They didn't 'blow it'. They went into the tournament with expectations probably lower than for any England side at a major tournament. Few would have expected them to get further than the last 16 so they had a very good tournament and ultimately lost out to a more experienced and stronger side. Credit to them.

[Kato]

They don't have to fight a governing body that is hell-bent on maintaining a duopoly.

Correct. In that case youth development should be taken as being a write-off regards them. I've been hearing noise from them since immediately after the Argentina 78 debacle. During that tournament they showed they couldn't run a menage so they're best ignored. No one can argue that whatever attempts they've made in the last 40 years have done anything good or even something approaching competent. They, as an institution, are useless dicks.

That would leave the govt or some private money to provide the means to improve the game. Private money people lack all altruism these days unless its attached to a tax-break scheme/scam ao nothing doing there. There are no Carnegies around.

I don't think the govt are all that interested in football or even understands that it can be a positive thing in a countries culture. A nation wide programme would produce players, education in terms of health and just let kids let of steam. Don't think they have appetite to get involved though.

In short I'm not too optimistic.

[marinello59]

Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.

I’ll play devils advocate here. :greengrin
Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
Discuss. :devil:

[Lago]

Correct. In that case youth development should be taken as being a write-off regards them. I've been hearing noise from them since immediately after the Argentina 78 debacle. During that tournament they showed they couldn't run a menage so they're best ignored. No one can argue that whatever attempts they've made in the last 40 years have done anything good or even something approaching competent. They, as an institution, are useless dicks.

That would leave the govt or some private money to provide the means to improve the game. Private money people lack all altruism these days unless its attached to a tax-break scheme/scam ao nothing doing there. There are no Carnegies around.

I don't think the govt are all that interested in football or even understands that it can be a positive thing in a countries culture. A nation wide programme would produce players, education in terms of health and just let kids let of steam. Don't think they have appetite to get involved though.

In short I'm not too optimistic.
What an excellent post.
The only private individual I can think is Tom Hunter & there is no way he would get involved in the current set up, as for the Govt they don't give damn about football or sport in general unless there is a photo opportunity involved. What legacy did Scotland get from the Glasgow Commonwealth games ? Answers on a postcard. :confused:

[One Day Soon]

I’ll play devils advocate here. :greengrin
Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
Discuss. :devil:

Oooft. Hadn't thought of it that way.

[blackpoolhibs]

I’ll play devils advocate here. :greengrin
Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
Discuss. :devil:

Naw, yer just a dafty. :greengrin

[hibee_nation]

They didn't 'blow it'. They went into the tournament with expectations probably lower than for any England side at a major tournament. Few would have expected them to get further than the last 16 so they had a very good tournament and ultimately lost out to a more experienced and stronger side. Credit to them.

They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.

[marinello59]

Naw, yer just a dafty. :greengrin

:greengrin

[Kato]

I’ll play devils advocate here. :greengrin
Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
Discuss. :devil:

That's why I stopped going. I don't trust the SFA with the national side or in their part of the promotion of the game from any angle at all, as well as development.

[Hi Heid Yin]

They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.

They were the 2nd youngest team in The World Cup.
They at least have the genuine potential to improve and to go on and not just compete with the best in the world but realistically win an actual tournament.

Feeling quietly smug from the comfort of your amchair in Scotland is all very well, but what do you advocate our national team can do to get anywhere near the present England side in terms of quality?
What do you advocate our national team can do to not just comfortably qualify for the world cup (as they did) but get to the semi-finals (as they did) of the next World Cup?

[Big_Franck]

They were the 2nd youngest team in The World Cup.
They at least have the genuine potential to improve and to go on and not just compete with the best in the world but realistically win an actual tournament.

Feeling quietly smug from the comfort of your amchair in Scotland is all very well, but what do you advocate our national team can do to get anywhere near the present England side in terms of quality?
What do you advocate our national team can do to not just comfortably qualify for the world cup (as they did) but get to the semi-finals (as they did) of the next World Cup?

Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

You do know this isn't a political forum, right?

[Hi Heid Yin]

Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

You do know this isn't a political forum, right?

I highlighted the "They" to mimic the poster who first referred England as "they". It was aimed at that poster...Not to make a special case for England.

[Hi Heid Yin]

Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

You do know this isn't a political forum, right?

You are absolutely right, bud. it isn't a political forum, but sometimes the "Wee Scotland team" mentality gets to me.
I do apologise.

[hibee_nation]

You are absolutely right, bud. it isn't a political forum, but sometimes the "Wee Scotland team" mentality gets to me.
I do apologise.

Is this a .net first someone getting theirknickers in a twist over the use of they to describe them

[Hi Heid Yin]

Is this a .net first someone getting theirknickers in a twist over the use of they to describe them

:aok: You might be right. I can be a bit of a Neil Lennon in over-reacting!

[barcahibs]

I'll stick my head up in response to the posters who think we should all support Scotland. Hibs football fan, not a Scotland football fan.

They're different sports. In the same way that I'm not a Scotland rugby, badminton, cricket, rowing or elephant polo fan.

Although I am always happy to see a rangers, celtc or hearts player/manager lose at anything. I don't know many folk that are Scotland fans - in that they go to the games - and the few I do know, I don't particularly like. I can think of one guy in particular, big hearts and Scotland fan, and I enjoy winding him up whenever hearts or Scotland lose so to that extent I suppose I enjoy it more when the team loses than when they win.

I also think my view is probably coloured by the SFA/Scottish football media being so beholden to the old firm. In general if the Scottish football media/SFA/old firm are 'For' something, I'll be 'Against' it.

I don't understand why Hibs are expected to release our players to the national team. Why are our 'assets' exposed to the risk of injury - and the even bigger risk of tapping up by the old firm dominated set-up - without recompense? Club involvement with the national game should be entirely voluntary. I don't pay my gate money for Hibs to develop players for international football. There are posters here (even in this thread) who are against the Hibs women's team getting any resources from the club - that's exactly how I feel about the international team getting resources from the club (I'm pro the Hibs women's team though).

[G B Young]

They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.

That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?

[Kato]

That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?

Around nineteen pancake?

[hibsbollah]

That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?

This is such an empty argument that you're making; 'Scottish people aren't allowed to make an objective analysis of England's world cup run because the Scottish national team didn't qualify'. Eh?

England got lucky with the group draw they got, the half of the draw they were in after qualification, and the state of the teams that they met when they got there. When they came up against Croatia they encountered superior players and came up short. I don't see how you can dispute this. Unless this is all about something else than football.

[MrSmith]

This is such an empty argument that you're making; 'Scottish people aren't allowed to make an objective analysis of England's world cup run because the Scottish national team didn't qualify'. Eh?

England got lucky with the group draw they got, the half of the draw they were in after qualification, and the state of the teams that they met when they got there. When they came up against Croatia they encountered superior players and came up short. I don't see how you can dispute this. Unless this is all about something else than football.
:aok::aok::aok:

[CockneyRebel]

They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.


Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.

They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

They didn't 'blow it'. They went into the tournament with expectations probably lower than for any England side at a major tournament. Few would have expected them to get further than the last 16 so they had a very good tournament and ultimately lost out to a more experienced and stronger side. Credit to them.

Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

[Big_Franck]

Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.

For me they blew the best chance they had to win the world cup in the last 50 years, without any shadow of a doubt. It is extremely unikely they'll get a route to the final like they had again in my lifetime.

[Smartie]

They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.

They lost to a good side who might yet end up World Cup winners.

As a fan of Hibs and Scotland I'd like to think I know a thing or 2 about blowing it. That's not what they did the other night.

[CockneyRebel]

Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

You can't blow an opportunity if you are not good enough. It may be argued that by size they should be better but at the moment they are not.

[CockneyRebel]

They lost to a good side who might yet end up World Cup winners.

As a fan of Hibs and Scotland I'd like to think I know a thing or 2 about blowing it. That's not what they did the other night.


That's my point exactly. It was a great opportunity with the easy draws/route to semi etc. but they were not quite up to it and that is definitely not blowing it. It's called going as far in a competition as you are able.

[Michael]

They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.

The population doesn't matter. Only 11 men can play. Croatia have world class players in their side.

[CockneyRebel]

Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.


How much bigger than Croatia is Russia?

[CropleyWasGod]

How much bigger than Croatia is Russia?36 [emoji851]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

Jeezo - is the ABE vs Eng fan club thing *still* going? :confused:

[AltheHibby]

Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

And in your first sentence lies the problem. The money is being spent on foreign players to the detriment of local people. Exactly what happened here with Murray at deadco.

In my opinion, the money and foreign players caused problems at international level, and could well do the same to the England team. But I hope not.

[G B Young]

This is such an empty argument that you're making; 'Scottish people aren't allowed to make an objective analysis of England's world cup run because the Scottish national team didn't qualify'. Eh?

England got lucky with the group draw they got, the half of the draw they were in after qualification, and the state of the teams that they met when they got there. When they came up against Croatia they encountered superior players and came up short. I don't see how you can dispute this. Unless this is all about something else than football.

It's not an 'objective' analysis though is it? That would imply impartiality. Instead it's weighted wholly towards being unable to find anything positive to say about England for no other reason that because 'it's England'.

If you read my post again you'll also see I'm not disputing they got beaten by a stronger team in Croatia.

If I thought England were 'lucky' I'd acknowledge it. Personally I still think they were lucky to win the World Cup final in 1966. That 'goal' was never over the line and the fourth one shouldn't have counted with a pitch invasion already under way. However, this time I thought they performed well with a young team and an impressive manager and they reached heights Scotland can only dream of.

[Pagan Hibernia]

How much bigger than Croatia is Russia?

to be honest i’d also argue that Russia regularly underachieve.

[G B Young]

Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

The population argument simply doesn't wash and never has. If the countries with the biggest populations should always be favourites why don't nations like Russia, India, China and the USA sweep the board at international level? Why have nations like Iceland (and for that matter Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) recently started to qualify for major tournaments while Scotland still don't? I'm sure I read that Uruguay have a smaller population than us yet are historically a giant of the world game.

Croatia have for the most part been a strong side since their inception less than 30 years ago whereas England haven't, for reasons which go beyond population.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/why-scotland-fans-are-wrong-to-look-to-croatia-as-a-model-to-follow-1-4767975

[SRHibs]

The population argument simply doesn't wash and never has. If the countries with the biggest populations should always be favourites why don't nations like Russia, India, China and the USA sweep the board at international level? Why have nations like Iceland (and for that matter Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) recently started to qualify for major tournaments while Scotland still don't? I'm sure I read that Uruguay have a smaller population than us yet are historically a giant of the world game.

Croatia have for the most part been a strong side since their inception less than 30 years ago whereas England haven't, for reasons which go beyond population.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/why-scotland-fans-are-wrong-to-look-to-croatia-as-a-model-to-follow-1-4767975

Not just population, but football infrastructure too. England have both though, and I would say they are underachieving based on that.

[JeMeSouviens]

The population argument simply doesn't wash and never has. If the countries with the biggest populations should always be favourites why don't nations like Russia, India, China and the USA sweep the board at international level? Why have nations like Iceland (and for that matter Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) recently started to qualify for major tournaments while Scotland still don't? I'm sure I read that Uruguay have a smaller population than us yet are historically a giant of the world game.

Croatia have for the most part been a strong side since their inception less than 30 years ago whereas England haven't, for reasons which go beyond population.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/why-scotland-fans-are-wrong-to-look-to-croatia-as-a-model-to-follow-1-4767975

Football isn't the main sport in any of those countries. It is undeniably true that over the long term, drawing from a bigger pool will find more talent.

btw, if Scotland and England had entered the world cups pre-1950, we and they would've been favourites and they at least would have multiple to their name. The FA and SFA considered international tournaments beneath them!

[JeMeSouviens]

The population argument simply doesn't wash and never has. If the countries with the biggest populations should always be favourites why don't nations like Russia, India, China and the USA sweep the board at international level? Why have nations like Iceland (and for that matter Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) recently started to qualify for major tournaments while Scotland still don't? I'm sure I read that Uruguay have a smaller population than us yet are historically a giant of the world game.

Croatia have for the most part been a strong side since their inception less than 30 years ago whereas England haven't, for reasons which go beyond population.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/why-scotland-fans-are-wrong-to-look-to-croatia-as-a-model-to-follow-1-4767975

Oh, and btw, serious question to yourself, ODS, etc. Since you guys don't really think Scotland should be a country, wouldn't you be better throwing your lot in with a UK team? In all fairness, Scotland shouldn't really have an international football team, it's a historical quirk.

[Smartie]

The population argument simply doesn't wash and never has. If the countries with the biggest populations should always be favourites why don't nations like Russia, India, China and the USA sweep the board at international level? Why have nations like Iceland (and for that matter Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland) recently started to qualify for major tournaments while Scotland still don't? I'm sure I read that Uruguay have a smaller population than us yet are historically a giant of the world game.

Croatia have for the most part been a strong side since their inception less than 30 years ago whereas England haven't, for reasons which go beyond population.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/why-scotland-fans-are-wrong-to-look-to-croatia-as-a-model-to-follow-1-4767975

I read something a while back relating to rugby, and they tend to consider the number of people within a country who play a particular sport regularly.

For a nation the size of New Zealand, Wales or Ireland, there are large numbers of people who play regular rugby either at youth or adult level allowing them to supposedly punch above their weight with larger nations.

I'm convinced the same is true with football.

If we want to be as good as Croatia, we need as a nation to play as much football as Croatia.

The best players can be creamed off to be adequately coached.

Iceland do well because in spite of their climate they have have built facilities that allows them to play regular football.

My brother is a wee bit dejected that his little boy doesn't seem to be much of a football player. He goes to his coaching once a week but he doesn't play football in the playground every lunchtime, with his pals after school every day and every minute he can at weekends like we did. If he did, he'd get better, then the coaching etc comes into it.

TBH we could do more to kick a ball about with him (which incidentally is another problem I think we have with hardworking parents in this country).

It would be interesting to know how many people play football regularly in Scotland, England, Croatia, Brazil, China, USA, Iceland etc.

In many ways I'm not convinced that there's that much of a gulf between nations now. We were seconds from beating the World Cup semi finalists in qualifying. If we hadn't lost that goal we'd have got the same amount of points in qualifying as Croatia, the World Cup finalists did.

I got the feeling that under Strachan we were going in the right direction, even if he did have a tendency to pick teams I disagreed with and make nonsensical comments that I totally disagreed with.

Big countries have struggled against smaller countries of late, and I think there is some decent Scottish talent emerging.

Sometimes having a decent manager, a consistent team, a solid gameplan, a bit of team spirit and players who really want to play for their country can overcome all sort of technical or "genetic" deficiencies.

[Scottie]

I read something a while back relating to rugby, and they tend to consider the number of people within a country who play a particular sport regularly.

For a nation the size of New Zealand, Wales or Ireland, there are large numbers of people who play regular rugby either at youth or adult level allowing them to supposedly punch above their weight with larger nations.

I'm convinced the same is true with football.

If we want to be as good as Croatia, we need as a nation to play as much football as Croatia.

The best players can be creamed off to be adequately coached.

Iceland do well because in spite of their climate they have have built facilities that allows them to play regular football.

My brother is a wee bit dejected that his little boy doesn't seem to be much of a football player. He goes to his coaching once a week but he doesn't play football in the playground every lunchtime, with his pals after school every day and every minute he can at weekends like we did. If he did, he'd get better, then the coaching etc comes into it.

TBH we could do more to kick a ball about with him (which incidentally is another problem I think we have with hardworking parents in this country).

It would be interesting to know how many people play football regularly in Scotland, England, Croatia, Brazil, China, USA, Iceland etc.

In many ways I'm not convinced that there's that much of a gulf between nations now. We were seconds from beating the World Cup semi finalists in qualifying. If we hadn't lost that goal we'd have got the same amount of points in qualifying as Croatia, the World Cup finalists did.

I got the feeling that under Strachan we were going in the right direction, even if he did have a tendency to pick teams I disagreed with and make nonsensical comments that I totally disagreed with.

Big countries have struggled against smaller countries of late, and I think there is some decent Scottish talent emerging.

Sometimes having a decent manager, a consistent team, a solid gameplan, a bit of team spirit and players who really want to play for their country can overcome all sort of technical or "genetic" deficiencies.
Agree with a lot of your post Smartie but the bit in bold worries me now. Unfortunately can't see how McLeish is going to help us develop into a nation that can qualify for tournaments again never mind compete at them.

It starts at grass roots , at school level. Todays kids aren't even getting an hour of physical education a week in some parts of the country now a days. Paying for after school sports events and clubs were tuition and coaching are supposably better are out of most parents budget in this economical climate. More money is needed from government and the SFA to support such clubs and causes but its not an bottomless pit. Money has to be found from somewhere.

Look at the results that have emerged for St Georges Park. Winning youth teams right across the board. Money invested by the FA is now reaping rewards of sorts. I don't know the answer but I for one is hell of a depressed by the lack of financial support for all forms of sports in Scotland .

[G B Young]

Oh, and btw, serious question to yourself, ODS, etc. Since you guys don't really think Scotland should be a country, wouldn't you be better throwing your lot in with a UK team? In all fairness, Scotland shouldn't really have an international football team, it's a historical quirk.

Yes, and I've said it before on here. I think a UK team (and indeed a UK league) would make sense if we are looking at the best way to achieve genuine success on the international stage. As you say, it's a quirk that FIFA would probably like to see ironed out that we even have four international teams from the UK.

I've never suggested Scotland shouldn't be a country though.

[Kato]

Don't see how changing manager, slating/praising McLeish. There's no tinkering at the top with selection or coaching which will take Scotland anywhere. The problem lies below the surface.

[AndyM_1875]

The population doesn't matter. Only 11 men can play. Croatia have world class players in their side.

Correct. It's about quality and I was baffled when England were said to be favourites over Croatia. Croatia's team consists of players from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Napoli and Bayern Munich amongst others whilst England sent out a team of decent enough players who ply their trade at the likes of Everton, Crystal Palace and Leicester.

Modric is coming off the back of Madrid having won 3 Champions Leagues in a row and Rakitic's Barcelona have just won the double in Spain. Roy Keane alluded to this on Wednesday as well, the Croatian team is full of serial winners.

[JeMeSouviens]

Correct. It's about quality and I was baffled when England were said to be favourites over Croatia. Croatia's team consists of players from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Napoli and Bayern Munich amongst others whilst England sent out a team of decent enough players who ply their trade at the likes of Everton, Crystal Palace and Leicester.

Modric is coming off the back of Madrid having won 3 Champions Leagues in a row and Rakitic's Barcelona have just won the double in Spain. Roy Keane alluded to this on Wednesday as well, the Croatian team is full of serial winners.

It's a great shame that more young Scottish players don't travel. Unfortunately the money sitting on the bench at Celtc or playing among the hoofers of the English lower leagues is sufficient to take away that motivation. The best Scottish players at 20-25 are rarely found in an environment conducive to developing them into great players.

[Chic Murray]

Correct. It's about quality and I was baffled when England were said to be favourites over Croatia. Croatia's team consists of players from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Napoli and Bayern Munich amongst others whilst England sent out a team of decent enough players who ply their trade at the likes of Everton, Crystal Palace and Leicester.

Modric is coming off the back of Madrid having won 3 Champions Leagues in a row and Rakitic's Barcelona have just won the double in Spain. Roy Keane alluded to this on Wednesday as well, the Croatian team is full of serial winners.

What gets me, is pundits like Hoddle, and Lawro are paid to point these things out. It was bleeding obvious who the favourites should be in that match.

What was less forgivable was the inability of the media to pick up on the fact that Croatians of their age might have been through things which would be "character forming" to say the least.

Instead we are hearing about how great it is that England (finally) has a team of modest young men, from ethnically diverse backgrounds.

A bit of balance, and respect wouldn't have gone amiss.


At the end of the day, how many of the English lads are even first choice at their own club?

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes, and I've said it before on here. I think a UK team (and indeed a UK league) would make sense if we are looking at the best way to achieve genuine success on the international stage. As you say, it's a quirk that FIFA would probably like to see ironed out that we even have four international teams from the UK.

I've never suggested Scotland shouldn't be a country though.

Definitions of "country" and "nation" are usually a bit woolly. To me, Scotland could and should be a country, but currently isn't. But others define it differently.

It would be interesting to see if a UK team did any better than England over the long term.

[AndyM_1875]

What gets me, is pundits like Hoddle, and Lawro are paid to point these things out. It was bleeding obvious who the favourites should be in that match.

What was less forgivable was the inability of the media to pick up on the fact that Croatians of their age might have been through things which would be "character forming" to say the least.

Instead we are hearing about how great it is that England (finally) has a team of modest young men, from ethnically diverse backgrounds.

A bit of balance, and respect wouldn't have gone amiss.


At the end of the day, how many of the English lads are even first choice at their own club?

You mean like Modric, whose grandfather was shot dead in front of him during the civil war that took place after the break up of Yugoslavia.
Yes, I'd agree.

[Chic Murray]

You mean like Modric, whose grandfather was shot dead in front of him during the civil war that took place after the break up of Yugoslavia.
Yes, I'd agree.

I think most of them were affected by the war, in one way or another. It maybe shows where their drive comes from.

[hibsbollah]

It's not an 'objective' analysis though is it? That would imply impartiality. Instead it's weighted wholly towards being unable to find anything positive to say about England for no other reason that because 'it's England'.

If you read my post again you'll also see I'm not disputing they got beaten by a stronger team in Croatia.

If I thought England were 'lucky' I'd acknowledge it. Personally I still think they were lucky to win the World Cup final in 1966. That 'goal' was never over the line and the fourth one shouldn't have counted with a pitch invasion already under way. However, this time I thought they performed well with a young team and an impressive manager and they reached heights Scotland can only dream of.

Earlier in the main world cup thread I've discussed the merits and weaknesses of Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, France, and the Iranian goalie. How Morocco and Peru have played some of the best football, Denmark and Sweden some of the worst, and how its interesting that the latter two proceeded and the former two didn't. Its been a great tournament and I've enjoyed debating it. So what evidence do you have that I'm not being objective? I've never even voted SNP :faf:

But when daring to criticise an England side as being a bit lucky to get to the semi's (which they ****ing well were, look at the ****ing draw! Why was there media debates on the BBC and Itv about whether to throw the Belgium game or not, if there wasn't a favourable and unfavourable side let's get real fgs) the usual suspects on here get all political and see McGlashans when there aren't any. It's a bit pathetic to be honest.

[hibsbollah]

I think most of them were affected by the war, in one way or another. It maybe shows where their drive comes from.

Lovrens story is heartbreaking. Saw his uncle murdered, family ran from the death squads in the middle of the night and received refuge in Germany when he was a little boy.

[snooky]

Definitions of "country" and "nation" are usually a bit woolly. To me, Scotland could and should be a country, but currently isn't. But others define it differently.

It would be interesting to see if a UK team did any better than England over the long term.

Any "UK" team would just be from the current England squad + Bale. :coffee:

[hibsbollah]

Any "UK" team would just be from the current England squad + Bale. :coffee:

You think Danny Rose is better than Andrew Robertson?

[G B Young]

Earlier in this thread I've discussed the merits and weaknesses of Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, France, and the Iranian goalie. How Morocco and Peru have played some of the best football, Denmark and Sweden some of the worst, and how its interesting that the latter two proceeded and the former two didn't. Its been a great tournament and I've enjoyed debating it. So what evidence do you have that I'm not being objective? I've never even voted SNP :faf:

But when daring to criticise an England side as being a bit lucky to get to the semi's (which they ****ing well were, look at the ****ing draw! Why was there media debates on the BBC and Itv about whether to throw the Belgium game or not, if there wasn't a favourable and unfavourable side let's get real fgs) the usual suspects on here get all political and see McGlashans when there aren't any. It's a bit pathetic to be honest.

It was somebody else's post about England's wins over supposedly c*** teams that you referred to as 'objective' so that was the one I was responding to.

England weren't lucky to get to the last four. That would suggest they were fortuitous to win the games they did or that they were the beneficiaries of some sort of injustice (as they were in the 1966 final). From what I saw that didn't appear to be the case in Russia. Sure, they would have been happy to avoid certain teams but it's not as if they rigged the draw. They did what they had to do, did it well and IMHO earned credit in doing so. There's nothing 'political' about saying so.

[G B Young]

Any "UK" team would just be from the current England squad + Bale. :coffee:

That's a tired old argument. Yes, the perception of our league as being a one-horse diddy competition doesn't help (which is why I would advocate a UK league) but for the first time in a while there are a sprinkling of Scots doing well towards the upper reaches of English football so I don't think we can dismiss our chances of being able to contribute to a UK team so readily. We'd have had a few in the 2012 Team GB squad had the SFA not been so Luddite in their approach.

[hibsbollah]

It was somebody else's post about England's wins over supposedly c*** teams that you referred to as 'objective' so that was the one I was responding to.

England weren't lucky to get to the last four. That would suggest they were fortuitous to win the games they did or that they were the beneficiaries of some sort of injustice (as they were in the 1966 final). From what I saw that didn't appear to be the case in Russia. Sure, they would have been happy to avoid certain teams but it's not as if they rigged the draw. They did what they had to do, did it well and IMHO earned credit in doing so. There's nothing 'political' about saying so.

It wasn't, and he didn't the word 'crap' he used the word 'mediocre'. One which I would also use to apply to teams like Panama, Tunisia, a James-less Colombia and Sweden. It's self evident that it's unusual to get to the semifinals of a world-cup without actually beating anyone decent. (in fact, if they'd have beaten Croatia, they would have been the only finalist not to have played at least one previous winner on the way to the final since West Germany in 1974).

Again, whether I happen to be Scottish while thinking this has nothing to do with it.

[Malthibby]

Just in the door from italy & have to say that I was chuffed as hell watching England come unstuck, along with 95% of everyone watching in the bars & restaurants along the lake front.
Does my head in that I feel I have to ensure folk in Europe know I'm not English but it's especially important to me just now that I'm not seen as part of the Brexiteering Little Englanders who want to Rule
Britannia. Just not possible to separate the politics from sport & that's not just England; Putin's also done pretty well out of Russia's over-achievement.
England's team did better than expected but the football on display from Brazil, Belgium and France has been in a different league. Good luck to Croatia but I'd expect France to do them pretty
comfortably.
Meanwhile, the Hibees continue to do us proud.
GG

[cabbageandribs1875]

yep lets have a team GB, we could maybe nickname it ermm team engerlund, we could then have the token scotsman, welshman and an norn irishman, we can play the home games at ermmm maybe wembley ? sounds very wallace mercerish, ram yer team GB where the sun doesn't shine :aok:






:)

[CockneyRebel]

Just in the door from italy & have to say that I was chuffed as hell watching England come unstuck, along with 95% of everyone watching in the bars & restaurants along the lake front.
Does my head in that I feel I have to ensure folk in Europe know I'm not English but it's especially important to me just now that I'm not seen as part of the Brexiteering Little Englanders who want to Rule
Britannia. Just not possible to separate the politics from sport & that's not just England; Putin's also done pretty well out of Russia's over-achievement.
England's team did better than expected but the football on display from Brazil, Belgium and France has been in a different league. Good luck to Croatia but I'd expect France to do them pretty
comfortably.
Meanwhile, the Hibees continue to do us proud.
GG


Not for you anyway.

[Malthibby]

Not for you anyway.

To be honest, I can't separate politics from anything......

[Scouse Hibee]

To be honest, I can't separate politics from anything......

I’m the opposite, politics are completely ignored and have been throughout my life generally. I’m 50 and can count on one hand the number of times I have ever voted.

[G B Young]

yep lets have a team GB, we could maybe nickname it ermm team engerlund, we could then have the token scotsman, welshman and an norn irishman, we can play the home games at ermmm maybe wembley ? sounds very wallace mercerish, ram yer team GB where the sun doesn't shine :aok:

:)

Aye, why bother even giving such an idea the time of day when we know we've no chance of getting anyone in the team? Much better just to accept ongoing failure in our own right :wink:

[MrSmith]

Aye, why bother even giving such an idea the time of day when we know we've no chance of getting anyone in the team? Much better just to accept ongoing failure in our own right :wink:

Team UK spells the end of each nations individuality. Absolutely and categorically a resounding NO for me!

[Hibbyradge]

They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.

Russia 145 million

Denmark 5.75 million

Nigeria 196 million

Argentina 45 million

Yet England blew it?

[WeeRussell]

Aye, why bother even giving such an idea the time of day when we know we've no chance of getting anyone in the team? Much better just to accept ongoing failure in our own right :wink:

I guess it would give all the Anti-Scottish, Scots a chance to actually support ‘their national side’.

But nah, I’ll settle for “ongoing failure” every day of the week before I cash it all in for a team that means nothing to me.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I guess it would give all the Anti-Scottish, Scots a chance to actually support ‘their national side’.

But nah, I’ll settle for “ongoing failure” every day of the week before I cash it all in for a team that means nothing to me.

I concur.

[One Day Soon]

Oh, and btw, serious question to yourself, ODS, etc. Since you guys don't really think Scotland should be a country, wouldn't you be better throwing your lot in with a UK team? In all fairness, Scotland shouldn't really have an international football team, it's a historical quirk.

Now, now JMS that's sophisticated trolling. :tsk tsk:

Scotland is a country. It's chosen to pool its sovereignty as a nation with the other nations of the UK. Nationalists are not the only patriots and there's no reason why we shouldn't have a Scottish national team.

Football is littered with contradictions: Cardiff City and Swansea play in the English leagues, Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish leagues, Germany were allowed three separate international teams at one stage - East Germany, West Germany and, briefly, Saarland. There are plenty more quirks and inconsistencies.

[madhatter]

Surprised this thread is still going, so off topic now. England Semi, they are out and this thread resembles something completely different now.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Russia 145 million

Denmark 5.75 million

Nigeria 196 million

Argentina 45 million

Yet England blew it?

More so them being by far the highest ranked team in their side of the knockout phase. The draw opened up like Moses parting the Red sea and they still couldn't capitalise. All their pundits had them in the final and at HT they should have been 2 or 3 up and cruising. To me they blew it.

[One Day Soon]

Cannot quite believe this debate is still going. Who knew there were so many people dispassionately interested in the performance of the English national side from a purely objective perspective. :wink:

[madhatter]

Yes, and I've said it before on here. I think a UK team (and indeed a UK league) would make sense if we are looking at the best way to achieve genuine success on the international stage. As you say, it's a quirk that FIFA would probably like to see ironed out that we even have four international teams from the UK.

I've never suggested Scotland shouldn't be a country though.

UK football team now would probably look like England + Bale. How does that suddenly give success? Who would the manager be? An English manager who has worked in the EPL no doubt, can hardly see McLeish getting the gig. It doesn’t work and seriously would just become an England team under the pretences of being the UK team. Culturally, socially and economically all nations in these isles get it wrong. England throw money about and waste it, Scotland and Wales have a funding shortage and again waste it. Football players from all parts of the UK have had articles mention their low fitness levels, poor diet, poor work ethic, drinking habits and what not. I’m really not sure why uniting into a UK team makes it a super power tbh. Especially as it’s likely to be Gerrard as manager and 19 English, 1 Welsh and 1 Scottish in the squad. That’s just the honest truth, English team plus token Scottish and Welsh players.

Fifa iron out what? I’m sorry but where would the line be drawn on unions then? Will we have UK football team vs EU football team then? Just play one game and stop having all these pesky countries getting involved. Incidentally EU vs UK = EU win. An EU team would be something else.

The majority of England fans don’t want an UK team, majority of Scotland fans don’t want an UK team and majority Welsh fans don’t want an UK team. If it were just about winning, shorten Scottish league to 3 teams, Celtic, Rangers, and Rest of Scotland. Sorted, Celtic and Rangers will struggle then, imagine Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs plus all the other teams combined!

It waters down national identity of each individual country and would again sway in a biased fashion towards England due to population.

What saddens me is that we, in Scotland, seem to consider the UK team as a means to win something. That’s worrying as that’s sacrificing the advancement of your own game just for some glory hunting (let’s be honest, at the very most only 1 Scottish player would be selected in that squad).My concern is if Scotland did well in a competition and England were already knocked out, I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be such large swathes in England suggesting doing away with their own National team, pretty sure they’d be calling for sackings...I fear for the national identity of Scotland tbh, protecting the identity of your country shouldn’t be perceived as nationalism and in such a negative way. We all deserve our own football teams or football is dead in my eyes.

This is so far off topic, England are out and it’ll be a very sad day when each distinct country cannot have their own national football team. McGinn would have 0 UK national caps under this suggested model, Scotland would get minimal additional funding when you consider the landmass, 3rd of the landmass of the UK and simply does not get the funding to give the 5million people the chance to excel at sport, we’ve got shocking facilities for public use. Shocking. UK team doesn’t solve that, if anything it’s worsen it. Areas of high population density would get the most funding, more pitches and facilities created etc. I’m sure London has quite a few gyms, sport centres and the like...maybe not. Doubt creating facilities in the remote corners of Scotland would be top priority for a UK national team, aim wouldn’t be to find the next Messi in the Highlands.

Rant over. This thread needs closed as it doesn’t link to original title anymore!

[stoneyburn hibs]

That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?

I read your post twice, only to maybe give you the benefit. Time and again you bring our nation down, twat
I've called you out before, as have others.

[CockneyRebel]

I read your post twice, only to maybe give you the benefit. Time and again you bring our nation down, twat
I've called you out before, as have others.

Read it 4 times and still don't see what you see.

[bigwheel]

That's a tired old argument. Yes, the perception of our league as being a one-horse diddy competition doesn't help (which is why I would advocate a UK league) but for the first time in a while there are a sprinkling of Scots doing well towards the upper reaches of English football so I don't think we can dismiss our chances of being able to contribute to a UK team so readily. We'd have had a few in the 2012 Team GB squad had the SFA not been so Luddite in their approach.


your "UK team" argument seems to be bigger is better? How about people just want to support their nation at football, regardless of wether they will end up winning anything? The league equivalent of your argument would be to create an "Edinburgh" team from Hibs & Hearts as it may be more successful..Would you recommend this too?

[IGRIGI]

A UK team would at least give me another sport to be ABUK.

[weecounty hibby]

your "UK team" argument seems to be bigger is better? How about people just want to support their nation at football, regardless of wether they will end up winning anything? The league equivalent of your argument would be to create an "Edinburgh" team from Hibs & Hearts as it may be more successful..Would you recommend this too?
Probably not just about football in this instance I would suspect.

[Keith_M]

Let's just knock this UK team nonsense on the head right now. Leave that garbage to the arch-unionists over at Ibrox.

[MrSmith]

Probably not just about football in this instance I would suspect.

Definitely a whiff of something else :aok:

[WeeRussell]

Read it 4 times and still don't see what you see.

If you’ve ever ready any of his other posts you wouldn’t need to read this one once to see it.

[WeeRussell]

UK football team now would probably look like England + Bale. How does that suddenly give success? Who would the manager be? An English manager who has worked in the EPL no doubt, can hardly see McLeish getting the gig. It doesn’t work and seriously would just become an England team under the pretences of being the UK team. Culturally, socially and economically all nations in these isles get it wrong. England throw money about and waste it, Scotland and Wales have a funding shortage and again waste it. Football players from all parts of the UK have had articles mention their low fitness levels, poor diet, poor work ethic, drinking habits and what not. I’m really not sure why uniting into a UK team makes it a super power tbh. Especially as it’s likely to be Gerrard as manager and 19 English, 1 Welsh and 1 Scottish in the squad. That’s just the honest truth, English team plus token Scottish and Welsh players.

Fifa iron out what? I’m sorry but where would the line be drawn on unions then? Will we have UK football team vs EU football team then? Just play one game and stop having all these pesky countries getting involved. Incidentally EU vs UK = EU win. An EU team would be something else.

The majority of England fans don’t want an UK team, majority of Scotland fans don’t want an UK team and majority Welsh fans don’t want an UK team. If it were just about winning, shorten Scottish league to 3 teams, Celtic, Rangers, and Rest of Scotland. Sorted, Celtic and Rangers will struggle then, imagine Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs plus all the other teams combined!

It waters down national identity of each individual country and would again sway in a biased fashion towards England due to population.

What saddens me is that we, in Scotland, seem to consider the UK team as a means to win something. That’s worrying as that’s sacrificing the advancement of your own game just for some glory hunting (let’s be honest, at the very most only 1 Scottish player would be selected in that squad).My concern is if Scotland did well in a competition and England were already knocked out, I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be such large swathes in England suggesting doing away with their own National team, pretty sure they’d be calling for sackings...I fear for the national identity of Scotland tbh, protecting the identity of your country shouldn’t be perceived as nationalism and in such a negative way. We all deserve our own football teams or football is dead in my eyes.

This is so far off topic, England are out and it’ll be a very sad day when each distinct country cannot have their own national football team. McGinn would have 0 UK national caps under this suggested model, Scotland would get minimal additional funding when you consider the landmass, 3rd of the landmass of the UK and simply does not get the funding to give the 5million people the chance to excel at sport, we’ve got shocking facilities for public use. Shocking. UK team doesn’t solve that, if anything it’s worsen it. Areas of high population density would get the most funding, more pitches and facilities created etc. I’m sure London has quite a few gyms, sport centres and the like...maybe not. Doubt creating facilities in the remote corners of Scotland would be top priority for a UK national team, aim wouldn’t be to find the next Messi in the Highlands.

Rant over. This thread needs closed as it doesn’t link to original title anymore!

Haha no bother - you write 7 paragraphs covering everything and then demand the thread is closed. You even took a break to point out how far off topic the thread (and you) were.. then continued off topic.

[G B Young]

I read your post twice, only to maybe give you the benefit. Time and again you bring our nation down, twat
I've called you out before, as have others.

To maybe give me the benefit of what?

Being critical of Scotland's pitiful failure to qualify for a major tournament this century isn't 'bringing our nation down'. Nor does it make me, IMHO, a t***. It's just an uncomfortable and depressing truth.

[IGRIGI]

Norway last got to the World Cup in 98 also.

Would you find any Norwegian calling for a Scandinavian team so they could take pride in the success of Sweden?

Would you ****, but then they appear to have a bucket load of self respect and a clear lack of cringe factor which is the opposite situation to Scotland.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Big day for England. 4th place coming home

[WeeRussell]

To maybe give me the benefit of what?

Being critical of Scotland's pitiful failure to qualify for a major tournament this century isn't 'bringing our nation down'. Nor does it make me, IMHO, a t***. It's just an uncomfortable and depressing truth.

So uncomfortable and depressing that you enjoy bringing it up in almost every post concerning a national side. And if it’s not national football related, you’ll find a problem with Scotland some other way.. but then why am I telling you that when you know better than anyone.

Anyway, back on to the (off) topic. No need for a uk side whatsoever.. perfectly happy for you to support England and carry on revelling in Scotland’s “ongoing failure”.. I don’t understand it but it’s your choice.

But there’s no need to want the rest of us to stop having the chance to support our country.

[G B Young]

I guess it would give all the Anti-Scottish, Scots a chance to actually support ‘their national side’.

But nah, I’ll settle for “ongoing failure” every day of the week before I cash it all in for a team that means nothing to me.

Fair enough. As I've said when this has been previously debated on here I don't for a minute think a UK team would ever happen unless FIFA forced the issue. It's simply my contention that if international success is what we aspire to then that would more likely be achieved by pooling resources. A UK league would, IMHO, be a way of giving Scottish players a wider window to showcase and develop their talents and ultimately provide meaningful input to the team. Personally I wouldn't have an issue with getting behind such a team in the way most of us get behind the GB Olympic team (and for those interested in rugby, the British Lions) but I'm under no illusions it will ever wash with the majority of Scottish football fans. It's only my viewpoint, I'm not demanding that you agree with it.

[Michael]

UK team idea is such a cop-out. Let's try and fix the problems we have with developing decent players rather than sweep it under the rug.

[Hibbyradge]

I read your post twice, only to maybe give you the benefit. Time and again you bring our nation down, twat
I've called you out before, as have others.

It's wrong to insult someone because you don't like their opinion.

[WeeRussell]

Fair enough. As I've said when this has been previously debated on here I don't for a minute think a UK team would ever happen unless FIFA forced the issue. It's simply my contention that if international success is what we aspire to then that would more likely be achieved by pooling resources. A UK league would, IMHO, be a way of giving Scottish players a wider window to showcase and develop their talents and ultimately provide meaningful input to the team. Personally I wouldn't have an issue with getting behind such a team in the way most of us get behind the GB Olympic team (and for those interested in rugby, the British Lions) but I'm under no illusions it will ever wash with the majority of Scottish football fans. It's only my viewpoint, I'm not demanding that you agree with it.

I, like many who regularly attend Scotland games, long for my team to be more successful. A team GB wouldn’t be my team and I wouldn’t care less how successful they were, and international football would mean nothing to me without Scotland.

I can just see thousands of Scotland fans, kilted up, belting out the proclaimers and “we’ll be coming” to get to the ground and observe god save the Queen before getting right behind an England team under the guise of team GB.

I’m not saying you’re demanding I agree with it. But the notion that it’s a fix for our long for success is ludicrous.

[SirDavidsNapper]

UK team idea is such a cop-out. Let's try and fix the problems we have with developing decent players rather than sweep it under the rug.

Totally agree.

[WeeRussell]

You were replying to that particular post with an agenda from previous posts?

If you mean to stoneyburn hibs’ post where he made reference to previous posts.. then of course I was taking them into account.

I suspect, however, you’ve made a mistake and thought it was me that made stoneyburn’s post.

[madhatter]

Haha no bother - you write 7 paragraphs covering everything and then demand the thread is closed. You even took a break to point out how far off topic the thread (and you) were.. then continued off topic.

Demand the thread is closed? I said "needs", not "it must". Funny how people always jump to the worst conclusions from written text. This thread is way of topic, I honestly think all this UK based team stuff should be put on a new thread entitled something like that, "England Semi" and what this thread is now discussing is way off.

This thread started of with:

"An English work friend of mine has 2 tickets for the semi final on Wednesday when England play Croatia. He paid £300 each including flights but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place.


It's at Croydon Registry Office, at 4pm. The bride's name is Nicola -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, and is a really good cook. PM me for more details."

I have my opinions on the matter of UK team and so do others, I've shared mine here (in the 7 paragraphs you mention) because it was in response to a post on this thread, doesn't change the fact I think this isn't the thread for it though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Demand the thread is closed? I said "needs", not "it must". Funny how people always jump to the worst conclusions from written text. This thread is way of topic, I honestly think all this UK based team stuff should be put on a new thread entitled something like that, "England Semi" and what this thread is now discussing is way off.

This thread started of with:

"An English work friend of mine has 2 tickets for the semi final on Wednesday when England play Croatia. He paid £300 each including flights but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place.


It's at Croydon Registry Office, at 4pm. The bride's name is Nicola -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, and is a really good cook. PM me for more details."

I have my opinions on the matter of UK team and so do others, I've shared mine here (in the 7 paragraphs you mention) because it was in response to a post on this thread, doesn't change the fact I think this isn't the thread for it though.So did you PM the OP?

How good is Nicola in the kitchen?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

I, like many who regularly attend Scotland games, long for my team to be more successful. A team GB wouldn’t be my team and I wouldn’t care less how successful they were, and international football would mean nothing to me without Scotland.

I can just see thousands of Scotland fans, kilted up, belting out the proclaimers and “we’ll be coming” to get to the ground and observe god save the Queen before getting right behind an England team under the guise of team GB.

I’m not saying you’re demanding I agree with it. But the notion that it’s a fix for our long for success is ludicrous.

Yeah, I get that. Of course. I've been to European Championships and World Cups with Scotland myself (many years ago!). I won't deny, though, that there was always a bit of a disconnect there compared to supporting Hibs and, I guess, an element of complacency in the sense that we regularly qualified back then. Since then, as the years of exile from tournaments started to mount up I began to feel that for a lot of fans (especially those who have never seen us qualify for anything) the whole kilted/Proclaimers/we'll be coming aspect you mention was becoming a more exciting focus than whether we actually achieved anything on the park - which is fine if all you're really after is a fun/boozy day out/trip abroad. The sad fact is, though, that we've not been "coming" for 20-plus years (although the World Cup exile will SURELY end if the plans for a 48-team tournament come to pass!) and my opinion of the Scotland national team, and the way it's run, has lowered with each passing year - hence my perhaps dispassionate view of how international success might be best achieved. I don't think it's a ludicrous notion, just not one that would ever be acceptable to those for whom going to Scotland games remains important.

[MrSmith]

Don’t forget about Scotland fans :aok: we are respected, revered and welcomed every where we play. Our team might be dire but our fans passion, friendliness and positivity is well received. This was earned as is our individuality and Scotland team.

[Keith_M]

So did you PM the OP?

How good is Nicola in the kitchen?



As a gentleman, I couldn't possibly answer that question.

[Kato]

To maybe give me the benefit of what?

Being critical of Scotland's pitiful failure to qualify for a major tournament this century isn't 'bringing our nation down'. Nor does it make me, IMHO, a t***. It's just an uncomfortable and depressing truth.

Ir is. What's pitiful though is you're desired solution which is to eradicate Scottish football altogether.

[sauzee=legend]

Don’t forget about Scotland fans :aok: we are respected, revered and welcomed every where we play. Our team might be dire but our fans passion, friendliness and positivity is well received. This was earned as is our individuality and Scotland team.

I will do us proud today representing Scotland and Hibs in St. Petersburg

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Belgium and England would have been a good final . Belgium would still win.

[MrSmith]

I will do us proud today representing Scotland and Hibs in St. Petersburg

Hope you have superb time 😎

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's wrong to insult someone because you don't like their opinion.

You are correct, apologies to GB Young

[Iggy Pope]

It's wrong to insult someone because you don't like their opinion.

Ach, man. That's my whole strategy of debate ****ed noo. Thanks for nowt you.