Pedophile hunting groups

[21.05.2016]

See there is a relatively new peado hunting group in Scotland (the first one in Scotland I think), Wolfpack Hunters.

For those who don't know, basically these groups set up fake accounts online, pretending to be underage kids and catching online groomers. They film the stings when they go and meet the offenders. They don't entrap the offenders, they make it clear to them that they are underage and then from there they see if the offender continues to groom.

Personally think these groups are great. Caught so many preditors. Online grooming is a growing problem and these vile people need caught before any real child is harmed. Only thing i would say is that the videos should not be uploaded to social media UNTIL the trial has taken place and the person has been found guilty.

[CropleyWasGod]

See there is a relatively new peado hunting group in Scotland (the first one in Scotland I think), Wolfpack Hunters.

For those who don't know, basically these groups set up fake accounts online, pretending to be underage kids and catching online groomers. They film the stings when they go and meet the offenders. They don't entrap the offenders, they make it clear to them that they are underage and then from there they see if the offender continues to groom.

Personally think these groups are great. Caught so many preditors. Online grooming is a growing problem and these vile people need caught before any real child is harmed. Only thing i would say is that the videos should not be uploaded to social media UNTIL the trial has taken place and the person has been found guilty.

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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[Scouse Hibee]

See there is a relatively new peado hunting group in Scotland (the first one in Scotland I think), Wolfpack Hunters.

For those who don't know, basically these groups set up fake accounts online, pretending to be underage kids and catching online groomers. They film the stings when they go and meet the offenders. They don't entrap the offenders, they make it clear to them that they are underage and then from there they see if the offender continues to groom.

Personally think these groups are great. Caught so many preditors. Online grooming is a growing problem and these vile people need caught before any real child is harmed. Only thing i would say is that the videos should not be uploaded to social media UNTIL the trial has taken place and the person has been found guilty.

I like the Walter Mitty hunters, they out folk who pretend to have served in the forces.

[heretoday]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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Hear hear. Are we to become a nation of vigilantes?

[Mibbes Aye]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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If I was a pediatrician, or even a podiatrist, I would be very, very nervous :agree:

[calumhibee1]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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Agreed. There’s one that pops up on my Facebook from time to time called Edinburgh Exposed. They don’t put up any evidence, they just put up a photo of someone, their name, area they live and put up a wee paragraph about what they’ve allegedly done. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just taking people’s word for it and folk are direct messaging them fake stories about people they don’t like.

[JeMeSouviens]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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Which rules out Americans (and Mibbes Aye based on his spelling of "pediatrician").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences# ae_and_oe

[Jack]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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Agreed.

And how do these people know they're not interfering with on going official investigations that may even be international?

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed.

And how do these people know they're not interfering with on going official investigations that may even be international?Anything I have ever read about the police attitude to groups like that has always been guarded. Along the lines of "public assistance is welcome, but leave it to us, please."

There was an incident in Glasgow recently where a "target" was confronted by such a group. He panicked, drove away and, in the course of that, ran into a young girl. The argument is that, without their involvement, she wouldn't have been injured.

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[IGRIGI]

Check out "Chris Hansen vs predator" on YouTube, the guy is the alpha on this :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Check out "Chris Hansen vs predator" on YouTube, the guy is the alpha on this :greengrin

“To catch a predator” I believe is the name of the show.

[Steve-O]

I’ve always thought there was something a bit sinister about these groups. Just don’t believe their only motivation is protecting children. If it was, they could just report their findings to police and not post on Facebook.

As others have said, they could well be interfering with ongoing investigations. That, and they have no clue about how evidence should be properly gathered.

[21.05.2016]

I realise we can't turn into a society full of vigilantes and go around taking the law into our own hands but these guys are very careful to stay within the law. They know that the case is ****ed if they step outside the law. It's a good way of catching these cretins and they have been successful in catching many which can only be a good thing.

I agree with the point that there probably is a bit of "oh look at us, we're heroes" about it but so what, it's getting predators caught and that's the main thing. There are some real monsters out there that, if they did meet a real child, would do a lot of harm

[johnbc70]

I’ve always thought there was something a bit sinister about these groups. Just don’t believe their only motivation is protecting children. If it was, they could just report their findings to police and not post on Facebook.

As others have said, they could well be interfering with ongoing investigations. That, and they have no clue about how evidence should be properly gathered.

Agree something sinister about the groups, almost like they are getting enjoyment out of the 'sting' and pretending to be a young girl/boy.

[IGRIGI]

Do some of them not work alongside police?

[Ryan69]

Personally, I'd prefer to trust my law enforcement to the professionals.

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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After all the cover ups they have done over the years...are you for real?

[Steve-O]

Do some of them not work alongside police?

Unsure. I do know in NZ that Police do basically what these guys are doing anyway. I’m sure it’s the same in the UK. These groups like to portray themselves as doing work Police aren’t doing but I don’t believe that’s the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

After all the cover ups they have done over the years...are you for real?Who are "they"?

The professionals or the decent spellers?

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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

And those than can spell "paedophile" correctly.

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What about people that have trouble spelling that? ;-)

[CropleyWasGod]

What about people that have trouble spelling that? ;-)The worst of the wurst.

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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The worst of the wurst.

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Quite right, my old sausage!

[CropleyWasGod]

Quite right, my old sausage!You got a link to that?

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[RyeSloan]

Who are "they"?

The professionals or the decent spellers?

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http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-01-12/police-officers-involved-in-cover-up-of-paedophile-ring-says-former-deputy-police-chief/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31907201

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-scandal-paedophile-undercover-investigation-dominic-noonan-detective-scally-manchester-a8413201.html%3famp


A ten second google search returns so many examples it’s hard to know where to start.

Let’s be honest the ‘establishment’ be that the police or countless other institutions have been covering up this type of abuse for decades.

I’m not comfortable with vigilantes and even more so when it involves posing as under age children but to suggest we can just leave it to the police is rather ignoring their and others massive failings in this area...

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-01-12/police-officers-involved-in-cover-up-of-paedophile-ring-says-former-deputy-police-chief/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31907201

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-scandal-paedophile-undercover-investigation-dominic-noonan-detective-scally-manchester-a8413201.html%3famp


A ten second google search returns so many examples it’s hard to know where to start.

Let’s be honest the ‘establishment’ be that the police or countless other institutions have been covering up this type of abuse for decades.

I’m not comfortable with vigilantes and even more so when it involves posing as under age children but to suggest we can just leave it to the police is rather ignoring their and others massive failings in this area...My post wasn't really serious. I knew what he meant. ☺

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[Wilson]

You got a link to that?

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As long as he doesn't have a link to my young sausage.

[RyeSloan]

My post wasn't really serious. I knew what he meant. ☺

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Aaah sorry, rather missed that 🤪

[Alex Trager]

An example that came up on my timeline yesterday.

https://twitter.com/weejohnhoyayee/status/1011313555709276160?s=21

[Steve-O]

An example that came up on my timeline yesterday.

https://twitter.com/weejohnhoyayee/status/1011313555709276160?s=21

A cringeworthy watch all round.

[Alex Trager]

A cringeworthy watch all round.

Not great at all.

The guy obviously knows he’s ****ed it cause he is shaking like a leaf.
Horrendous really. I wouldn’t say with confidence that he was going to do it, but it’s hard to ignore what he had already done.

[Wembley67]

An example that came up on my timeline yesterday.

https://twitter.com/weejohnhoyayee/status/1011313555709276160?s=21

I really don't know what to make of that, it's extremely uncomfortable to watch that's for sure.

[barcahibs]

I don't like vigilantism - and I especially don't like the fact that they stick these films on facebook rather than handing their evidence to the police. It feels like they're in this for reasons other than protecting kids.

As someone who occasionally works with children I'm also wary about stuff that fuels the hysteria about paedophiles in this country. Are there dangerous people out there that should be kept away from kids? Yes of course there are, but nowhere near the numbers that popular media would like you to believe. Organisations should of course be held to account and made to have the correct systems in place to prevent abuse - we should never be complacent about this - but at the same time we're causing as much damage as we're preventing with the way we're structuring our society around children.

As a final point, if these guys - or anyone - really wanted to protect kids they'd be much better off donating to foodbanks, setting up kids clubs, or organising witch-hunts against all the parents out there who simply don't give a s**t about their children. Poverty, neglect, bad parenting and disinterest is causing far more harm to the children in our society than anything else.

[Scouse Hibee]

I don't like vigilantism - and I especially don't like the fact that they stick these films on facebook rather than handing their evidence to the police. It feels like they're in this for reasons other than protecting kids.

As someone who occasionally works with children I'm also wary about stuff that fuels the hysteria about paedophiles in this country. Are there dangerous people out there that should be kept away from kids? Yes of course there are, but nowhere near the numbers that popular media would like you to believe. Organisations should of course be held to account and made to have the correct systems in place to prevent abuse - we should never be complacent about this - but at the same time we're causing as much damage as we're preventing with the way we're structuring our society around children.

As a final point, if these guys - or anyone - really wanted to protect kids they'd be much better off donating to foodbanks, setting up kids clubs, or organising witch-hunts against all the parents out there who simply don't give a s**t about their children. Poverty, neglect, bad parenting and disinterest is causing far more harm to the children in our society than anything else.

Nowhere near the numbers that popular media would like you to believe.

How can you back up that statement?

[frazeHFC]

Was a massive mob outside a paedo's house in Armadale last night. Looked about 40 police officers from the video keeping the crowd contained before they went in and grabbed him.

[Chic Murray]

Was a massive mob outside a paedo's house in Armadale last night. Looked about 40 police officers from the video keeping the crowd contained before they went in and grabbed him.

Reminds me of Bryan Potter in Phoenix Nights

"What's wrong with this lot Gerry? They haven't been this excited since the paper published that paedophile's address."

I hate mobs. The fact is they are probably living next to predators, and are none the wiser.

[Hibrandenburg]

Reminds me of Bryan Potter in Phoenix Nights

"What's wrong with this lot Gerry? They haven't been this excited since the paper published that paedophile's address."

I hate mobs. The fact is they are probably living next to predators, and are none the wiser.

Might even be predators in the mob.

[IGRIGI]

we should never be complacent about this - but at the same time we're causing as much damage as we're preventing with the way we're structuring our society around children

With what paedos aim to do with kids that is some statement to make.

[Chic Murray]

Might even be predators in the mob.

Casting the spotlight as far away from them as possible. :agree:

[sleeping giant]

Was a massive mob outside a paedo's house in Armadale last night. Looked about 40 police officers from the video keeping the crowd contained before they went in and grabbed him.

Same thing in Uphall yesterday.

[Steve-O]

Nowhere near the numbers that popular media would like you to believe.

How can you back up that statement?

The archetypal ‘child snatcher’ type paedophile is actually a whole lot rarer than the media likes to portray. Further, these types of offenders have pretty low reoffending rates compared to other types of offenders.

That said, numbers of convicted child sex offenders living in communities all around us is probably higher than most people think IMO.

[Steve-O]

Was a massive mob outside a paedo's house in Armadale last night. Looked about 40 police officers from the video keeping the crowd contained before they went in and grabbed him.

If this is someone trying to reintegrate, what do these mobs hope to achieve? All they’re doing is driving the guy to a different community, possibly away from important support networks which, in turn, actually increases the risk of reoffending.

So eh, thanks to the mob...:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

If this is someone trying to reintegrate, what do these mobs hope to achieve? All they’re doing is driving the guy to a different community, possibly away from important support networks which, in turn, actually increases the risk of reoffending.

So eh, thanks to the mob...:rolleyes:Absolutely agree.

If such a person has been allowed to stay in a community by those who know best, they will be there under strict conditions and observation.

It's the old NIMBY attitude, though. Personally, I'd rather not know my neighbour's private history. I'd rather sleep well in ignorance [emoji16]

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[johnbc70]

Assuming these individuals subject to the wrath of the mob are either convicted or have plead guilty to something.

I am sure there was a case where a pediatrician was hounded out his house by a mob.

[Hermit Crab]

You tube is full of these type of videos, some of these groups appear to be unemployed idiots who go way over the top like taking the accused phones and car keys off them and threaten suspects with violence if they try to run, they absolutely cannot do that and those actions could see cases collapse. They come across as uneducated and very unprofessional and lacking in knowledge about the law.

There has been cases where they've got the wrong person and these sort of false accusations ruin lives forever. If they are going to do this they have to be 100% certain they have got the right person. Another thing thats becoming popular is live broadcasts on Facebook which can turn particularly nasty as they give away the location in some of the videos and locals also recognise areas, that leads to mobs gathering and potential confrontations between mobs, suspects and police. I don't like vigilanteism as you can guarantee that one day a suspect will get seriously injured or killed and who knows, the person may be innocent.

[Hermit Crab]

Was a massive mob outside a paedo's house in Armadale last night. Looked about 40 police officers from the video keeping the crowd contained before they went in and grabbed him.


The mob torched the accused car as well.

https://www.scotsman.com/livingston/angry-mob-try-to-get-to-alleged-armadale-pervert-1-4760882

[CropleyWasGod]

Assuming these individuals subject to the wrath of the mob are either convicted or have plead guilty to something.

I am sure there was a case where a pediatrician was hounded out his house by a mob.

That was an urban myth, apparently.

But you can see how it might happen.

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[Chic Murray]

That was an urban myth, apparently.

But you can see how it might happen.

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A mob misidentified a man after the News of the World published pictures.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/news-of-the-world-defends-paedophile-campaign-711165.html

[CropleyWasGod]

A mob misidentified a man after the News of the World published pictures.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/news-of-the-world-defends-paedophile-campaign-711165.htmlI can't see any paediatrician mentioned there.

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[Just Alf]

I can't see any paediatrician mentioned there.

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probably this

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society

[CropleyWasGod]

probably this

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.societyYeah, i remember that. But it was then spiked by this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pressgazette.co.uk/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/amp/

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[Just Alf]

Yeah, i remember that. But it was then spiked by this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pressgazette.co.uk/a-tale-told-too-much-the-paediatrician-vigilantes/amp/

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learn summat new every day! :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

learn summat new every day! :aok:[emoji16]

I believed the same story for years. Think it was someone on here who put me right.

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[Mr_F]

An example that came up on my timeline yesterday.

https://twitter.com/weejohnhoyayee/status/1011313555709276160?s=21

Cut his balls off... Deserves everything he gets.. I wonder if the almost apologetic brigade on here have young kids, especially daughters themselves 🙄

[Steve-O]

Cut his balls off... Deserves everything he gets.. I wonder if the almost apologetic brigade on here have young kids, especially daughters themselves 🙄

If I'm in the "apologetic brigade" in your eyes, then yes, I do have a young daughter.

You're mistaking condoning what these guys do (I'm certainly not), with not condoning mobs running amok, torching cars, forcing people out of houses and all the rest of it - such behaviour does not actually help anyone, apart from those in the mob who then portray themselves as some sort of hero of the people by plastering their 'success' all over social media.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cut his balls off... Deserves everything he gets.. I wonder if the almost apologetic brigade on here have young kids, especially daughters themselves [emoji849]I'm not sure why not having young kids would disqualify people from having an opinion.



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[Chic Murray]

I feel sorry for the vast majority of decent people who live in places like Armadale. How do you carry on normally when there is a complete breakdown in law in order.

This lot have tasted blood, and have got a real kick from what happened the other night. I'd hate to be a single, middle aged man, living in a place like that right now.

It will soon get to the stage where you are either part of the mob or you must be a nonce. I think that community needs an intervention quickly to stop the situation getting out of hand.

[heretoday]

I feel sorry for the vast majority of decent people who live in places like Armadale. How do you carry on normally when there is a complete breakdown in law in order.

This lot have tasted blood, and have got a real kick from what happened the other night. I'd hate to be a single, middle aged man, living in a place like that right now.

It will soon get to the stage where you are either part of the mob or you must be a nonce. I think that community needs an intervention quickly to stop the situation getting out of hand.

Being part of a mob, with a perceived justified grievance, gives types like that a warm feeling inside. It makes a change from wallowing at the bottom of life's pond.

[speedy_gonzales]

Being part of a mob, with a perceived justified grievance, gives types like that a warm feeling inside. It makes a change from wallowing at the bottom of life's pond.

As soon as I read this it reminded me of big Mags Haney from the Raploch, Stirling.
Self proclaimed leader of an anti-paedophile group that made a lot of noise and and tied up a lot of limited resources in the early 90's.
Fast forward to her death from cancer 5 years ago and her eulogy read more like Pablo Escobar than model citizen of the community. Heroin dealer, benefits cheat, many of her family in jail at time of death, threats and intimidation against the community she proclaimed to protect,,,,
The world is a better place without people like that.

[Chic Murray]

Being part of a mob, with a perceived justified grievance, gives types like that a warm feeling inside. It makes a change from wallowing at the bottom of life's pond.

Somebody said in the EEN comments. It's a great British tradition. When it gets too hot, people get pissed and riot.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Check out "Chris Hansen vs predator" on YouTube, the guy is the alpha on this :greengrin
'Just take a seat over there' :greengrin

Hanson ruins the predators.

In reference to the paedophile hunting groups, I've seen some of the videos on You Tube, and, though I fully understand why they do it, such stings do raise worries of mob justice and the possibility of jeopardising police investigations. It's better that such online predators are unwittingly chatting to an adult than a real child; no argument there. I don't know about these sites and apps they use, but one can imagine they must be a magnet for perverts and oddballs, and removing some from circulation is to be welcomed. However, there are risks to this kind of thing which raise serious concerns.

I'm somewhat ambivalent on this. In a perfect world, I would say leave it to the authorities, but they have finite resources and can't do everything; yet I have worries about these hunting groups.

[Wilson]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-43965062

[johnbc70]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-43965062

The unfortunate side of it. There was a video of the Armadale incident and there was a lady giving commentary and she was enjoying it, it was like she was getting a sense of euphoria from it.

[ScotchCorner]

I’m starting to wonder if any of these 14 year olds I’ve been speaking to online are who they say they are.


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[Alex Trager]

I’m starting to wonder if any of these 14 year olds I’ve been speaking to online are who they say they are.


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An interesting post

[Chic Murray]

I happened to read one of these scandal sheets at work yesterday. Take a Break, or Bella or something like that.

In it a lady told how she had a relationship with a guy who was busted in a sting by the police for trying to procure a child. Turns out he had been a member of one of these vigilante groups.

It is a perfect foil to meet other paedophiles.

[overdrive]

I happened to read one of these scandal sheets at work yesterday. Take a Break, or Bella or something like that.

In it a lady told how she had a relationship with a guy who was busted in a sting by the police for trying to procure a child. Turns out he had been a member of one of these vigilante groups.

It is a perfect foil to meet other paedophiles.

I’ve had a suspicion that some of the folk in these groups are paedos themselves. I’ve no idea how these stings by the vigelantes work but surely they end up chatting to actual children in an inappropriate manner themselves.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’ve had a suspicion that some of the folk in these groups are paedos themselves. I’ve no idea how these stings by the vigelantes work but surely they end up chatting to actual children in an inappropriate manner themselves.

I think (guess?) the way they work is to set themselves up with fake personas online... eg that of a 14 year old girl... and wait for others to contact them. Anything else could be seen as entrapment.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think (guess?) the way they work is to set themselves up with fake personas online... eg that of a 14 year old girl... and wait for others to contact them. Anything else could be seen as entrapment.

That's how I understand it. They never make the first contact: they await contact then immediately tell the person they are underage. That person should, of course, then end the conversation and report the profile; those who don't are immediately breaking law, even if the chat isn't sexual.

[ScotchCorner]

Entrapment only applies to the police/ official bodies. One person can’t be done for entrapment when snaring a nonce.

I don’t think these hunter groups are a good idea from what I have seen.


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[CropleyWasGod]

That's how I understand it. They never make the first contact: they await contact then immediately tell the person they are underage. That person should, of course, then end the conversation and report the profile; those who don't are immediately breaking law, even if the chat isn't sexual.Am I reading you right here? It's against the law for an adult to chat online with a minor?

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[ScotchCorner]

Am I reading you right here? It's against the law for an adult to chat online with a minor?

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Think it’s over 5 messages, sexual or not, can be classed as grooming.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Think it’s over 5 messages, sexual or not, can be classed as grooming.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCheers. I didn't know that.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

Am I reading you right here? It's against the law for an adult to chat online with a minor?

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Yes, I believe so, on the basis that a conversation needn't be sexual in nature to be considered grooming. An online predator may talk in a seemingly harmless way initially, in order to win a child's trust, but it's still grooming.

Obviously this doesn't mean family members can't chat online. It applies to strangers on a public chat site.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, I believe so, on the basis that a conversation needn't be sexual in nature to be considered grooming. An online predator may talk in a seemingly harmless way initially, in order to win a child's trust, but it's still grooming.

Obviously this doesn't mean family members can't chat online. It applies to strangers on a public chat site.Hibs.net educates me again. [emoji16]

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[sleeping giant]

A friend on my Facebook shared the following post from somebody in Ayr.
The original poster is not on my friends list and the sharer is about to be removed.

This is the side of Facebook that I can't stand.
Some of the comments are terrible and if anyone questions if this actually happened , they get accused of all sorts.

It's clearly just a racist whipping up hate but some of the thick people commenting is disturbing.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473818263078780&id=100013518316631&set=a.129435504183726.1073741828.100013518316631&source=48&ref=content_filter

[Chic Murray]

A friend on my Facebook shared the following post from somebody in Ayr.
The original poster is not on my friends list and the sharer is about to be removed.

This is the side of Facebook that I can't stand.
Some of the comments are terrible and if anyone questions if this actually happened , they get accused of all sorts.

It's clearly just a racist whipping up hate but some of the thick people commenting is disturbing.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473818263078780&id=100013518316631&set=a.129435504183726.1073741828.100013518316631&source=48&ref=content_filter

I'm a keen amateur photographer. Some of the comments on there remind me why I'm extra careful taking pictures with kids around.

Likewise the paranoia is infectious. I was watching single guys taking pictures down at North Berwick yesterday.

These thoughts went through my head - what were they up to? The granddaughter was on a roundabout, and you wonder - is the operator a nonce?

The worst of it is you end up in a very difficult situation if you come across a lost child. What do you do?

All it takes is one hysterical person,or trouble maker and things turn nasty.

[barcahibs]

I'm a keen amateur photographer. Some of the comments on there remind me why I'm extra careful taking pictures with kids around.

Likewise the paranoia is infectious. I was watching single guys taking pictures down at North Berwick yesterday.

These thoughts went through my head - what were they up to? The granddaughter was on a roundabout, and you wonder - is the operator a nonce?

The worst of it is you end up in a very difficult situation if you come across a lost child. What do you do?

All it takes is one hysterical person,or trouble maker and things turn nasty.

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.

[Steve-O]

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.

Interesting story and hats off for the work you do.

As you imply, the issue is that it's easy for people, even if they themselves have numerous issues of their own (usually the case too I find), to scream about "paedos" and all the rest of it. I'd be very surprised if members of these hunting groups are father of the year contenders themselves, but of course they can portray themselves as heroes to the mob for hunting paedos and protecting children.

"I might be a bad dad, but I'm nae paedo!!".

Even murderers are held in higher esteem in many cases - paedophiles are an easy target for people to abuse without recourse. Of course, I'm not condoning what these people have done at all, it is horrendous, but the levels of hysteria around this issue do not actually help and your story is just one example of that.

[calumhibee1]

Am I reading you right here? It's against the law for an adult to chat online with a minor?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Out of interest, is there an age you need to be to sign up to .net?

[Steve-O]

A friend on my Facebook shared the following post from somebody in Ayr.
The original poster is not on my friends list and the sharer is about to be removed.

This is the side of Facebook that I can't stand.
Some of the comments are terrible and if anyone questions if this actually happened , they get accused of all sorts.

It's clearly just a racist whipping up hate but some of the thick people commenting is disturbing.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473818263078780&id=100013518316631&set=a.129435504183726.1073741828.100013518316631&source=48&ref=content_filter

I find it quite hilarious (and sad, I guess) that nobody on that entire thread asks themselves what the evidence is these claims are based on. Mental.

[McD]

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.


I have to say mate, this is a incredible post (I mean that in a complimentary way). You’ve shone light on this subject and related areas so well, and in a very articulate way.

i am sure your job is very tough, but I also hope that it’s so rewarding for you. I think that you clearly make a difference, I know these examples you’ve given are to demonstrate the negative impact of the perceived risk of paedophilia (clearly there is a risk, but it’s not the only one), but the way these children have engaged with you (especially when you’ve described them as generally highly unlikely to do so), shows what an amazing job you have done to connect with them and for them to trust you and seek you out in a group of adults. Given their experience of adults, I have to say that that is fantastic, and I really hope that you take comfort and pride in knowing you make such a difference to them, you deserve to.

[stoneyburn hibs]

24 Hours in Police Custody last night featured paedophiles and a hunting group.
I don't want to spoil it for those that may still watch it but one of the paedophiles actions were horrific.

It also gave a good insight into how these groups via social media can ruin any chance of a conviction against any perpetrators, driving them underground etc.

[matty_f]

24 Hours in Police Custody last night featured paedophiles and a hunting group.
I don't want to spoil it for those that may still watch it but one of the paedophiles actions were horrific.

It also gave a good insight into how these groups via social media can ruin any chance of a conviction against any perpetrators, driving them underground etc.

I found last night's show very difficult to watch, and very enlightening as well.

It's a horrible situation, we've had two incidents of these groups in our area recently, one about five minute's walk along the road from me, and then at the weekend at Tesco (which both me and my kids are in daily), which is less than a minute's drive from my house.

Last night my 12 year old daughter was out playing, she hadn't contacted us for a couple of hourse and we couldn't reach her on her phone. I went out to look for her where we expected her to be - she wasn't there, and so for the next hour and a half or so, I was driving round playparks and areas where the kids hang out locally trying to find her.

There were adults out with their kids at some of the playparks, and I genuinely worried about how I'd be perceived by them as I came past for a third or fourth time. I recognised some kids at one of the parks as they're pals with my daughter, so I got out and asked them if they'd seen her. At the parks where there were kids I didn't know so well, I didn't feel comfortable approaching the kids to ask.

As it happens my daughter came home herself, perfectly fine, but because of the knowledge that there are potentially predatory people in the area, I'll be honest and say that all sorts of horrible thoughts were going through my head each time I tried a location and couldn't find her.

I don't really agree with the groups, I don't think there's always a noble purpose at their heart, and I think there is often a blood-lust from those that hang around the groups, a mob-mentality which can cause more harm than good.

[matty_f]

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.

This is a really good post, very thought-provoking and insightful.

I'll bet that some kids who are brought up with abuse go on to become abusers as well, there's a horrible cycle that they can become part of.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I found last night's show very difficult to watch, and very enlightening as well.

It's a horrible situation, we've had two incidents of these groups in our area recently, one about five minute's walk along the road from me, and then at the weekend at Tesco (which both me and my kids are in daily), which is less than a minute's drive from my house.

Last night my 12 year old daughter was out playing, she hadn't contacted us for a couple of hourse and we couldn't reach her on her phone. I went out to look for her where we expected her to be - she wasn't there, and so for the next hour and a half or so, I was driving round playparks and areas where the kids hang out locally trying to find her.

There were adults out with their kids at some of the playparks, and I genuinely worried about how I'd be perceived by them as I came past for a third or fourth time. I recognised some kids at one of the parks as they're pals with my daughter, so I got out and asked them if they'd seen her. At the parks where there were kids I didn't know so well, I didn't feel comfortable approaching the kids to ask.

As it happens my daughter came home herself, perfectly fine, but because of the knowledge that there are potentially predatory people in the area, I'll be honest and say that all sorts of horrible thoughts were going through my head each time I tried a location and couldn't find her.

I don't really agree with the groups, I don't think there's always a noble purpose at their heart, and I think there is often a blood-lust from those that hang around the groups, a mob-mentality which can cause more harm than good.

I can sympathise with what went on regarding your daughter being awol. I'm sure every parent has been in that situation at one time or another, I/we did when my two were smaller and it really strikes the fear into you.

Completely agree with you regarding approaching/helping or even talking to kids that don't know you, it's really sadly uncomfortable, to the point where you'd think twice if you saw a kid fall off their bike or something similar.

[barcahibs]

I have to say mate, this is a incredible post (I mean that in a complimentary way). You’ve shone light on this subject and related areas so well, and in a very articulate way.

i am sure your job is very tough, but I also hope that it’s so rewarding for you. I think that you clearly make a difference, I know these examples you’ve given are to demonstrate the negative impact of the perceived risk of paedophilia (clearly there is a risk, but it’s not the only one), but the way these children have engaged with you (especially when you’ve described them as generally highly unlikely to do so), shows what an amazing job you have done to connect with them and for them to trust you and seek you out in a group of adults. Given their experience of adults, I have to say that that is fantastic, and I really hope that you take comfort and pride in knowing you make such a difference to them, you deserve to.

Thank you for your kind words, but I don't really deserve them, there are loads of folk doing much more than me out there working away trying to fix things. My own hat goes off to the folk who work with 'problem' kids all the time, I usually only have a couple of sessions a week and even that is soul destroying at times.

But yes there are amazing moments as well. I watched one of the kids I mentored recently give a talk in front of an audience of 250 adults at a national conference. When I met him he wouldn't lok you in the eye, but he was one of the daftest, funniest wee guys I've known. I bump into some of them when they're working or see them in their work uniform and I'll admit I get a wee glow of pride - mostly for them!

On the other hand I had a session for vulnerable single parents (mums) and toddlers again today. At the end of it one wee girl runs round the group shouting "Hugs, Hugs!". She stops in front of every mum and sticks her arms out wide, massive smile on her face and gets a hug. She stops in front of me (the only man in the room) and does the same.

I of course am not allowed to touch children because of all the paedos all around us.

It's tough explaining that to a three year old, their immediate instinct is that they've done something wrong (luckily I've got enough experience that I saw it coming and made sure I was carrying something so I couldn't hug, and another female staff member quickly stepped in with mum to distract her).


I found last night's show very difficult to watch, and very enlightening as well.

It's a horrible situation, we've had two incidents of these groups in our area recently, one about five minute's walk along the road from me, and then at the weekend at Tesco (which both me and my kids are in daily), which is less than a minute's drive from my house.

Last night my 12 year old daughter was out playing, she hadn't contacted us for a couple of hourse and we couldn't reach her on her phone. I went out to look for her where we expected her to be - she wasn't there, and so for the next hour and a half or so, I was driving round playparks and areas where the kids hang out locally trying to find her.

There were adults out with their kids at some of the playparks, and I genuinely worried about how I'd be perceived by them as I came past for a third or fourth time. I recognised some kids at one of the parks as they're pals with my daughter, so I got out and asked them if they'd seen her. At the parks where there were kids I didn't know so well, I didn't feel comfortable approaching the kids to ask.

As it happens my daughter came home herself, perfectly fine, but because of the knowledge that there are potentially predatory people in the area, I'll be honest and say that all sorts of horrible thoughts were going through my head each time I tried a location and couldn't find her.

I don't really agree with the groups, I don't think there's always a noble purpose at their heart, and I think there is often a blood-lust from those that hang around the groups, a mob-mentality which can cause more harm than good.

My partner played that daft pokemon mobile phone game - a lot of the places you have to go to catch the things are near play parks... I eventually refused to drive her to them as I could see how it probably looked!


I can sympathise with what went on regarding your daughter being awol. I'm sure every parent has been in that situation at one time or another, I/we did when my two were smaller and it really strikes the fear into you.

Completely agree with you regarding approaching/helping or even talking to kids that don't know you, it's really sadly uncomfortable, to the point where you'd think twice if you saw a kid fall off their bike or something similar.

On our last safeguarding training session (we get one annually) we were given a story by the instructor - it's probably apocryphal, but I've no doubt similar things have happened - about a retired male friend of his who was out playing golf at his local club. A few holes in he comes across a couple of wee laddies (teenagers) playing - they've clearly snuck onto the course and they're just bashing away with a couple of old clubs. He takes pity on them and offers them some tips, lets them use his clubs, and they finish the round together. He's really enjoyed it and as he walks away the wee lads shout out to him that they'll see him there again next week. He's telling this 'funny' story to his wife that night and it's only then that he realises he's been out, alone, with two young boys in a quiet secluded area - and that he's arranged to meet them again. He totally panics thinking how would he explain that to someone who didn't know him?

My own father in law used to give free fly fishing lessons to local kids on behalf of the local angling club. He stopped that when someone at the club told him he needed to go through Disclosure. Not that anything would show up in his disclosure, but he was mortified that someone should think that, he took it as almost an accusation.

The thing is inter-generational projects are brilliant. There are so many benefits from older adults working with kids - and it's a two way street, with the kids helping to prevent isolation and giving the older folk a new purpose and vitality in life. I tried to organise a project like this last year between a school and club for older men with mild mental health issues (basically depression, mostly caused by isolation) and it eventually turned out to be impossible, just too many hoops to jump through.

There are so many kids out there who could massively benefit from a stabilising adult influence in their life. And so many kids who have no male influence in their lives at all. But we're all so busy hounding out paedos that we can't do anything about it.

Walk into any nursery, primary school or charity working with kids and count how many men are working there. I'm not saying hysteria over paedeophilia is the only reason for that, but it's a massive part of it.

Again, I'm not trying to trivialise sexual abuse, it does happen, it's horrific, the safeguarding rules I work under are there for a reason, but it's much much rare than the paedo behind every bush that the media pushes or that parents fear.

The most frequently reported forms of trauma in children are witnessing domestic abuse, poverty, parental seperation and parental criminality. Where are the mobs outside the wife/husband beater's doors?

In the meantime 1 in 10 kids aged 5-16 have a diagnosable mental illness that will probably last into adulthood - many of them (though of course by no means all!) caused by their family/life situation. 70% of those children will not get the help they need. The average wait for effective mental health treatment is 10 years.

1 in 3 calls to Childline are about mental health issues.

1 in 12 children self harm.

60% of children in care have a mental health problem.

Suicide is the leading cause of death for children aged 5-19. In England and Wales 3 children every week kill themselves. (the actual figures are probably worse than this as many suicides are bot reported as such)

Apologies, rant over, it's been a tough week. And it's only Tuesday :)

[bigwheel]

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.


Powerful and educational writing....thanks for sharing

[Chic Murray]

Pal of mine was working with kids. One of them absconded and he had to pursue her to ensure her safety.

He caught up with the girl in a wooded part of a public park and restrained her till back up arrived.

While he was waiting, he saw two men approach, carrying hammers. They had been working nearby.

He was able to explain what he was doing.

I've never understood why they were carrying hammers though.

[Moulin Yarns]

Pal of mine was working with kids. One of them absconded and he had to pursue her to ensure her safety.

He caught up with the girl in a wooded part of a public park and restrained her till back up arrived.

While he was waiting, he saw two men approach, carrying hammers. They had been working nearby.

He was able to explain what he was doing.

I've never understood why they were carrying hammers though.


Answered your own question.:wink:

[Chic Murray]

Answered your own question.:wink:

Fair play, it was a rough part of Dundee. Maybe they were worried about somebody stealing them.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Thank you for your kind words, but I don't really deserve them, there are loads of folk doing much more than me out there working away trying to fix things. My own hat goes off to the folk who work with 'problem' kids all the time, I usually only have a couple of sessions a week and even that is soul destroying at times.

But yes there are amazing moments as well. I watched one of the kids I mentored recently give a talk in front of an audience of 250 adults at a national conference. When I met him he wouldn't lok you in the eye, but he was one of the daftest, funniest wee guys I've known. I bump into some of them when they're working or see them in their work uniform and I'll admit I get a wee glow of pride - mostly for them!

On the other hand I had a session for vulnerable single parents (mums) and toddlers again today. At the end of it one wee girl runs round the group shouting "Hugs, Hugs!". She stops in front of every mum and sticks her arms out wide, massive smile on her face and gets a hug. She stops in front of me (the only man in the room) and does the same.

I of course am not allowed to touch children because of all the paedos all around us.

It's tough explaining that to a three year old, their immediate instinct is that they've done something wrong (luckily I've got enough experience that I saw it coming and made sure I was carrying something so I couldn't hug, and another female staff member quickly stepped in with mum to distract her).



My partner played that daft pokemon mobile phone game - a lot of the places you have to go to catch the things are near play parks... I eventually refused to drive her to them as I could see how it probably looked!



On our last safeguarding training session (we get one annually) we were given a story by the instructor - it's probably apocryphal, but I've no doubt similar things have happened - about a retired male friend of his who was out playing golf at his local club. A few holes in he comes across a couple of wee laddies (teenagers) playing - they've clearly snuck onto the course and they're just bashing away with a couple of old clubs. He takes pity on them and offers them some tips, lets them use his clubs, and they finish the round together. He's really enjoyed it and as he walks away the wee lads shout out to him that they'll see him there again next week. He's telling this 'funny' story to his wife that night and it's only then that he realises he's been out, alone, with two young boys in a quiet secluded area - and that he's arranged to meet them again. He totally panics thinking how would he explain that to someone who didn't know him?

My own father in law used to give free fly fishing lessons to local kids on behalf of the local angling club. He stopped that when someone at the club told him he needed to go through Disclosure. Not that anything would show up in his disclosure, but he was mortified that someone should think that, he took it as almost an accusation.

The thing is inter-generational projects are brilliant. There are so many benefits from older adults working with kids - and it's a two way street, with the kids helping to prevent isolation and giving the older folk a new purpose and vitality in life. I tried to organise a project like this last year between a school and club for older men with mild mental health issues (basically depression, mostly caused by isolation) and it eventually turned out to be impossible, just too many hoops to jump through.

There are so many kids out there who could massively benefit from a stabilising adult influence in their life. And so many kids who have no male influence in their lives at all. But we're all so busy hounding out paedos that we can't do anything about it.

Walk into any nursery, primary school or charity working with kids and count how many men are working there. I'm not saying hysteria over paedeophilia is the only reason for that, but it's a massive part of it.

Again, I'm not trying to trivialise sexual abuse, it does happen, it's horrific, the safeguarding rules I work under are there for a reason, but it's much much rare than the paedo behind every bush that the media pushes or that parents fear.

The most frequently reported forms of trauma in children are witnessing domestic abuse, poverty, parental seperation and parental criminality. Where are the mobs outside the wife/husband beater's doors?

In the meantime 1 in 10 kids aged 5-16 have a diagnosable mental illness that will probably last into adulthood - many of them (though of course by no means all!) caused by their family/life situation. 70% of those children will not get the help they need. The average wait for effective mental health treatment is 10 years.

1 in 3 calls to Childline are about mental health issues.

1 in 12 children self harm.

60% of children in care have a mental health problem.

Suicide is the leading cause of death for children aged 5-19. In England and Wales 3 children every week kill themselves. (the actual figures are probably worse than this as many suicides are bot reported as such)

Apologies, rant over, it's been a tough week. And it's only Tuesday :)

Very insightful as was your other posts. Respect for the work you do.

[Elem3nt17]

The unfortunate side of it. There was a video of the Armadale incident and there was a lady giving commentary and she was enjoying it, it was like she was getting a sense of euphoria from it.

That sounds horrible!

[matty_f]

That sounds horrible!

:agree: Armadale's a dump.

[Slavers]

:agree: Armadale's a dump.

That is a very Trump like statement.

[matty_f]

That is a very Trump like statement.


Aye right, Trump's never been to Armadale, never set foot outside East Whitburn, so...

It was a joke, to be honest. The idea that out of the quoted post that was referred to as sounding horrible was the person being in Armadale was meant to be funny...


I'll get my coat. :greengrin

[Smartie]

That is a very Trump like statement.

Sad!

[Slavers]

Sad!

:(

[HelmutSchlong]

Without making any excuses for these sicko peadophiles, I cant help but get the feeling there’s something very dark and eerie regarding the individuals in these hunting groups. They dedicate there lives pretending to be young teenage girls while engaging in chats of an adult nature, I really find that very unnerving if I’m being honest

I seen one on social media only a few days ago where they had arranged to meet a beast, the commotion caused obviously reached the manager and he came out and asked what was going on. The man I presume who was holding the camera said to the store manager “I’ll dae whitiver the **** I want” his sidekick then told him “don’t tell us what to do little boy, **** off”

There was one at Glasgow Buchanan Street Station where they cornered the guy, from my interpretation of the law nobody can physically stop you from moving unless you have been arrested by the law. The guy tried to run away and the woman grabbed him then they claimed that he pushed her into a door. They had been told by the station security they couldn’t restrain the peadophile

As we’ve seen with the Tommy Robinson hysteria lately, it’s been well documented that this sort of thing could see any pending or potential case being dropped due to claims of an unfair trial

As has been said previously some of the hunters sound as though they are getting their rocks off by doing this

Obviously, each peadophile that gets caught is a good thing but I certainly wouldn’t trust any of these vigilantes around any my kids

Just my opinion

[21.05.2016]

Mentioned it on here before I think but I work with kids aged from toddlers through to teenagers. I'm one of the very, very few men working in this area, and part of the reason for that is the hysteria over "peados".

I work with kids with 'issues', kids who are vulnerable, kids with behavioural problems and mental health issues. Kids who society is failing.

Of course sexual abuse happens, of course every effort should be made to stamp it out. It's kind of hard to make my point without trivialising sexual abuse and I don't want to do that. I have worked with teenagers and adults who have suffered sexual abuse. It's horrific when it happens.

But there's so much more going on.

I can give you a hundred stories of neglect, disinterest, mental and emotional abuse for every case of peadophilia. And it's just as damaging - but I bet some the mums and dads I'm thinking about would be the first one's in the mob screaming out about peados.

But society doen't give a damm about emotional neglect. Its a parent's right to bring their child up however they please.

I've met schoolkids who can barely speak to you, their confidence is so low. Sometimes mum has spent the last 16 years telling them they're worthless, sometimes dad has been hitting them, sometimes its the other way about. A huge part of my job working with teenagers is teaching them basics. How to shake someone's hand. How to look them in the eye when you talk to them. How to talk to someone you don't know, or someone in authority. How to value themselves. Basic stuff that no one has ever taught them because no one has ever cared.

Often they are bullied, they come to school hungry or dirty or smelly because no one cares about them at home. Often they bully other kids because they don't know any better.

A 16 year old girl told me she'd never have a job because she was useless so what's the point in coming to school? I asked her (stupidly, she caught me on a bad day) what her mum would think of her saying things like that and she told me her mum told her that all the time. Her mums advice to her was to ditch school, get herself pregnant and get on benefits as quickly as possible.

I recently ran a series of events designed to allow absent fathers to spend fun, quality time with their children. Some of them (the majority of them) had an amazing time. But then there were the dads who had to be practically forced to turn up. Who came late or didn't come at all, leaving child on its own, wondering where their dad was. The worst ones are the kids who aren't even that obviously bothered. They just expect to be let down.

There was the one dad who, halfway through an outdoor session physically carried a screaming four year old, over to me, and said loudly "you need to sort this, "it's" shat itself." The kid was screaming out that it hadn't (by the way one of the few times I've heard that particular child speak out loud in a group).

He then stalked away and had a fag while I tried to calm the child down with reassuring words (I can't physically touch the child). Thankfully the female support worker - who has different safeguarding rules from me - was able to quickly come and take over. He hadn't 'shat' himself incidentally, he'd wet the training pants he was wearing.

Another typical story. I'm running an event for mums and kids with emotional issues. One wee 8 year old boy spent the whole two hours trying to hold my hand. Nothing worked, we tried distracting him, giving him things to carry, giving me things to carry, coming up with games he needed his hands for, me keeping my hands in my pockets, sending him for errands - whatever we tried he was back after a couple of minutes trying to hold my hand.

I'm not allowed to hold his hand. Because there might be peados out there.

The likelihood is that I'm the only male role-model in that kids life at the moment but rules is rules. So we had to write a risk assessment for him and next time we're going to have an extra female member of staff along who'll be tasked with keeping him away from me. Eventually if that doesn't work we'll have to try explaining to him that he's not allowed to touch me. That won't cause any emotional damage I'm sure.

On another session I made the mistake of sitting down while chatting to the group as they had something to eat. A little girl came over, sat on my knee and asked me if I would like to share her orange. I've worked with this group for a while and it's the first time, to my knowledge, that she has ever gone more than a few steps away from her mum, and the first time she's spoken out loud in front of the group (normally she whispers into her mum's ear and gets her to repeat whatever she wants to say).

But of course I'm not allowed to touch a child because of all the peados so I had to stand up and move away (which I did as delicately as I could). Luckily I won't be working with that group again, but I still had to fill in a safeguarding form afterwards describing the incident.

This happens literally every week.

And literally every week I'll meet another child who's scarred by their parent's or societies' disinterest in their welfare - as long as paedos aren't involved.

To be honest, I don't have to work with kids, I could easily fill my time working with adults only, I generally end up working with kids because I'm doing a favour to other staff members who are chronically under-resourced. It's got to the stage now where I actively try to avoid it. I'm constantly told I'm good at it and I should do more but it's soul destroying.

And it's scary. I'm only one mistake, one false accusation, one misconstrued accident, away from a situation where that mob might be at my door. And judging by the number of other men I see working with children, I'm not the only one making that decision.

Thanks for posting that, it sounds like you have a very tough but rewarding job and make a great role model for children who haven't had the best starts in life so good on you!

It's totally true though, especially for men, that your frightened to do anything totally innocent as like you say it only takes one false accusation and that's your life in tatters. It's a real shame as men like yourself are good people trying to help.

[barcahibs]

Nice to see Elon Musk throwing his weight into this debate as well. Describes one of the guys involved in the Thai cave rescue as a 'pedo' in an argument over whether his capsule thing would have worked.

Seems to be just a throw away insult to him but that sort of talk really can ruin lives.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nice to see Elon Musk throwing his weight into this debate as well. Describes one of the guys involved in the Thai cave rescue as a 'pedo' in an argument over whether his capsule thing would have worked.

Seems to be just a throw away insult to him but that sort of talk really can ruin lives.He's apologised for it.

But, as you suggest, mud sticks.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Without making any excuses for these sicko peadophiles, I cant help but get the feeling there’s something very dark and eerie regarding the individuals in these hunting groups. They dedicate there lives pretending to be young teenage girls while engaging in chats of an adult nature, I really find that very unnerving if I’m being honest

I seen one on social media only a few days ago where they had arranged to meet a beast, the commotion caused obviously reached the manager and he came out and asked what was going on. The man I presume who was holding the camera said to the store manager “I’ll dae whitiver the **** I want” his sidekick then told him “don’t tell us what to do little boy, **** off”

There was one at Glasgow Buchanan Street Station where they cornered the guy, from my interpretation of the law nobody can physically stop you from moving unless you have been arrested by the law. The guy tried to run away and the woman grabbed him then they claimed that he pushed her into a door. They had been told by the station security they couldn’t restrain the peadophile

As we’ve seen with the Tommy Robinson hysteria lately, it’s been well documented that this sort of thing could see any pending or potential case being dropped due to claims of an unfair trial

As has been said previously some of the hunters sound as though they are getting their rocks off by doing this

Obviously, each peadophile that gets caught is a good thing but I certainly wouldn’t trust any of these vigilantes around any my kids

Just my opinion

Agree with all that, although I’m more just quoting you to congratulate you on your username!

[HelmutSchlong]

Agree with all that, although I’m more just quoting you to congratulate you on your username!

Cheers pal!