Legalise Cannabis?

[johnbc70]

A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.

[calumhibee1]

A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.

Yes. Make masses of money by taxing it, take it out the hands of criminals and regulate it and at the end of the day, while different, it’s not really any worse than alcohol is it? This is coming from someone who’s never smoked it.

Even if not for recreational use, the fact it’s not legal for medicinal use is ridiculous.

[makaveli1875]

Should be legaised for medicinal use at the very least .

[Mon Dieu4]

It's certainly time to be having the chat, cigarettes and alcohol are legal and I put it in the same catogory as them, the difference is people with an agenda have put all their efforts into demonising cannabis for almost a century and as a result much of the information out there is biased at best.

I have a fair few friends that are total stoners and who do absolutely no harm to anything but a Mars Bar, legalise it and regulate it, would be worth it for the increased tax revenue alone which you could put into the NHS or treatment for people on harder substances

[Hibrandenburg]

A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.

I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.

[Killiehibbie]

I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.I've heard it said that taking it away from dealers who sell anything that they can profit from would prevent this happening for a lot of those users.

[heretoday]

Seems a no-brainer. It would certainly be a good thing if it replaced alcohol as recreation for some folk.
My only reservation is that it will increase tobacco use. I know it can be eaten or smoked on its own in a pipe but the classic way is via the spliff.
You can tell I've done my research!

[calumhibee1]

I've heard it said that taking it away from dealers who sell anything that they can profit from would prevent this happening for a lot of those users.

Agreed. It might be a gateway drug, but how much of that is due to the “supplier” having other things for sale? Would it be as much of an issue if you went into a shop for it and they were selling cannabis and only cannabis and you didn’t have other options like you do when buying from a dealer? I’d suggest the gateway side of it would decrease.

Medicinal use is a must to legalise IMO. My father has a grade 4 Glioblastoma (aggressive cancerous brain tumour). I’m not saying it would help him, but there’s certainly instances where people who have had the same as he has have taken cannabis oil and seen huge improvements. If it helps then there’s no way people should be left to seek it illegally IMO.

[RyeSloan]

Seems a no-brainer. It would certainly be a good thing if it replaced alcohol as recreation for some folk.
My only reservation is that it will increase tobacco use. I know it can be eaten or smoked on its own in a pipe but the classic way is via the spliff.
You can tell I've done my research!

It’s dry herb vaporisers these days, or so the young team tell me [emoji12]

The cannabis laws are a joke and it’s taken a poor wee laddie with health problems to finally bring it back to the forefront again.

Prohibition has completely failed for most drugs but especially cannabis, it’s freely available to anyone that wants it with little effort.

Time to take the trade away from the ‘criminal gangs’ and regulate and tax as per alcohol and the likes...the tax returns in the states that have done so in the USA are enlightening. And that’s without taking into account the time and cost savings of at least decriminalisation, with police budgets under pressure this would be a very effective way of freeing up police and court time to focus on rather more important things than if someone fancies a wee puff of weed every so often.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.

[heretoday]

It’s dry herb vaporisers these days, or so the young team tell me [emoji12]

The cannabis laws are a joke and it’s taken a poor wee laddie with health problems to finally bring it back to the forefront again.

Prohibition has completely failed for most drugs but especially cannabis, it’s freely available to anyone that wants it with little effort.

Time to take the trade away from the ‘criminal gangs’ and regulate and tax as per alcohol and the likes...the tax returns in the states that have done so in the USA are enlightening. And that’s without taking into account the time and cost savings of at least decriminalisation, with police budgets under pressure this would be a very effective way of freeing up police and court time to focus on rather more important things than if someone fancies a wee puff of weed every so often.

True. But there will be more folk driving when stoned, won't there?
I mean, cannabis use will increase after all. Bound to. The wife might even try it!

[Pretty Boy]

Given the increasingly stringent rules around tobacco use it does seem odd that it looks increasingly inevitable that another drug which is primarily smoked, and often used in conjunction with tobacco, will be legalised at some point in the short to medium term.

Personally I'm of the belief that the 'war on drugs' has been lost for some time and a debate about taking the entire industry under state control seems long overdue. At the very least the potential medical uses of drugs like cannabis need evaluation and a decision made with an open mind.

[Killiehibbie]

I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.
Perish the thought. Imagine the multi billion pound worldwide industry fighting the unwinnable war against drugs no longer being required.

[danhibees1875]

I'd say it's worth the discussion anyway, and while I wouldn't claim to know enough to make an informed opinion my uninformed opinion would be to legalise it.

The damage Cannabis does to the users body is fairly minimal, particularly when you compare to alcohol and tobacco.
The impact on others is minimal/non-existent, again particularly compared to alcohol.
The extra tax income could only be a good thing.
Regulations and control would presumably increase quality, and thus safety, of the drug. Although I would imagine this isn't too big an issue with cannabis as it is other drugs.


However, I do wonder if we're really ready for it. As a nation, our relationship with addictive substances isn't exactly the best (alcohol, sugar, gambling) and the current trend is, rightly, for the state to limit these things through legislation - so I doubt they'll start relaxing the rules here.

[Moulin Yarns]

The world has gone to pot already.:wink:

The government will make a hash of it.

How do you weed out the different users?

Ross Hemp has to investigate.

[One Day Soon]

It's a pathway drug. It creates a number of health problems.

We're currently trying to reduce consumption of alcohol and cigarettes so why would we make legal something else that is harmful?

The War on Drugs title was daft from the first day it was used. We don't talk about a 'War' on cancer, diabetes, malaria, poor mental health or suicide and yet we do want to try to reduce and eliminate these things.

If we are going to give up on cannabis because we are struggling to enforce it why not just give up on a shed load of other things because they're too hard to enforce as well?

Review for medical reasons sensible though.

[RyeSloan]

True. But there will be more folk driving when stoned, won't there?
I mean, cannabis use will increase after all. Bound to. The wife might even try it!

Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys! [emoji23]

As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.

Absolutely. The evidence from Portugal is very encouraging.

[heretoday]

Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys! [emoji23]

As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.

If I want to use it now I have to go to an illegal dealer don't I? Your average punter doesn't like that connection.

But with Britain being a nation of hedonists I'd imagine if it was freely available in the High St there will be a lot of folk trying dope who wouldn't otherwise.

We don't know though, do we? Only time will tell.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont get the comparisons between smoking and drinking, surely this is just giving folk another drug to use?

Of course if its used as a solution to ill-health, and it works then i'm all for it. I'm just a bit worried there's not been sufficient research into its benefits and side effects yet for me personally to make an informed opinion.

It might be a great thing for some diseases, and more research is a must, but its not at all clear what the long term is either way.

[snooky]

A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.

Don't agree with it myself. I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.

Russia used to have cheap vodka to numb the brains of it's population and hence help them to not think about what's really going on. I kinda wonder if this is going to be the West's version of that? :wink: :whistle:

[heretoday]

Don't agree with it myself. I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.

Russia used to have cheap vodka to numb the brains of it's population and hence help them to not think about what's really going on. I kinda wonder if this is going to be the West's version of that? :wink: :whistle:

Interesting thought! It's the sort of conspiracy theory that used to emanate from five-hour dope sessions back in the 70s.

I reckon it's just that the stoned undergraduates of the 70s and 80s are now in charge.

[beensaidbefore]

If you have a genuine interest this book is worth a read. Looks into both benefits and downsides, but in a way that someone who has never smoked can understand. He makes a comparison between wine connoisseurs and people who enjoy the different stains of weed, which I actually found quite interesting.I

https://biblio.co.uk/9780747548522

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If it puts the bitch in my stair that sells it out of business I'm all for it.

[Onceinawhile]

I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.

I'm willing to bet that almost all of them started drinking alcohol before they started smoking cannabis. So maybe alcohol is the gateway drug?

[Onceinawhile]

It's a pathway drug. It creates a number of health problems.

We're currently trying to reduce consumption of alcohol and cigarettes so why would we make legal something else that is harmful?

The War on Drugs title was daft from the first day it was used. We don't talk about a 'War' on cancer, diabetes, malaria, poor mental health or suicide and yet we do want to try to reduce and eliminate these things.

If we are going to give up on cannabis because we are struggling to enforce it why not just give up on a shed load of other things because they're too hard to enforce as well?

Review for medical reasons sensible though.


Lots of things that are harmful are legal. More people die every year from horse riding accidents than from taking ecstasy. Which is more harmful and which do you think is legal?

[Stranraer]

I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.

[sleeping giant]

I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.

Why on Earth would you want to punish people who use it ?

[speedy_gonzales]

I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.

Really???


Why on Earth would you want to punish people who use it ?

You beat me to it!

[speedy_gonzales]

I'm torn over this but edging towards the status quo, the status quo isn't brilliant but I can't see how the plentiful but legal availability will help those who need help most.
We all know that cannabis isn't addictive but the feeling experienced after use can be. Many adults that I know to use cannabis do so because of other issues, a few to top up their legitimate meds, a couple of others because they've done so since they were a teenager and it's what works for them.
Other adults I know that used to enjoy a smoke when younger don't partake so much these days. Either because they don't get off on it anymore, or they've "grown" up,,,,
I'm also not sure how it would work for those that are employed in industries where there are drug tests. Many transport operators currently carry out urine based drug tests and a +ve for cannabis would result in instant dismissal. Legalisation would require this to be changed (I would think) and future screenings would have to be impairment based, i.e are you fit to work?!?

[snooky]

Lots of things that are harmful are legal. More people die every year from horse riding accidents than from taking ecstasy. Which is more harmful and which do you think is legal?

Isle of Man TT - carnage.

[heretoday]

Really???



You beat me to it!

Peter Hitchens probably only said that because his brother said the opposite.

[Steve-O]

I'm torn over this but edging towards the status quo, the status quo isn't brilliant but I can't see how the plentiful but legal availability will help those who need help most.
We all know that cannabis isn't addictive but the feeling experienced after use can be. Many adults that I know to use cannabis do so because of other issues, a few to top up their legitimate meds, a couple of others because they've done so since they were a teenager and it's what works for them.
Other adults I know that used to enjoy a smoke when younger don't partake so much these days. Either because they don't get off on it anymore, or they've "grown" up,,,,
I'm also not sure how it would work for those that are employed in industries where there are drug tests. Many transport operators currently carry out urine based drug tests and a +ve for cannabis would result in instant dismissal. Legalisation would require this to be changed (I would think) and future screenings would have to be impairment based, i.e are you fit to work?!?

On your last point, how is it any different from alcohol? Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to be high at your workplace.

[Steve-O]

There is no point filling prisons and courts with cases related to cannabis possession in my view. It should at least go back to decriminalisation.

Not sure I’m buying the gateway drug bit. I’m sure a huge proportion of users have not, at least habitually, moved onto harder stuff. Some will have, but who is to say they wouldn’t have done that anyway?

[speedy_gonzales]

On your last point, how is it any different from alcohol? Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to be high at your workplace.

Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁

[Steve-O]

Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁

I guess for people in jobs where they need to be completely unaffected by substances, it’s a choice they’ll have to make.

[Alex Trager]

I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.

Absolutely agree

[Alex Trager]

I guess for people in jobs where they need to be completely unaffected by substances, it’s a choice they’ll have to make.

Same way as it is now really

[silverhibee]

Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys! [emoji23]

As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.

It may be a offence but in Scotland the police would have to catch you smoking a spliff while driving, different story down south where you can be swabbed to see if you have any illegal drugs in your system, something Scottish police don't use yet.

[lapsedhibee]

I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users


I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.

Patrick Cockburn in today's Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cannabis-legalisation-psychosis-billy-caldwell-william-hague-schizophrenia-a8410581.html)

[RyeSloan]

It may be a offence but in Scotland the police would have to catch you smoking a spliff while driving, different story down south where you can be swabbed to see if you have any illegal drugs in your system, something Scottish police don't use yet.

Not sure how the weed in the spliff being legal or not makes any difference to be honest.

[Mon Dieu4]

Patrick Cockburn in today's Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cannabis-legalisation-psychosis-billy-caldwell-william-hague-schizophrenia-a8410581.html)

I don't smoke it and don't have any stake in this game but Id counter that with the point that when you go to a dealer you aren't exactly given I huge list of different types of weed, you take what they have, if it was legalised it would be regulated and the strains of super skunk going about would be looked at, not many people would be going into a shop and requesting the strongest skunk they have, most people if given the choice would be going for something a bit more mellow

It would be akin to going to the pub and drinking nothing but Absinthe, not many people do

[lapsedhibee]

I don't smoke it and don't have any stake in this game but Id counter that with the point that when you go to a dealer you aren't exactly given I huge list of different types of weed, you take what they have, if it was legalised it would be regulated and the strains of super skunk going about would be looked at, not many people would be going into a shop and requesting the strongest skunk they have, most people if given the choice would be going for something a bit more mellow

It would be akin to going to the pub and drinking nothing but Absinthe, not many people do

Some people go into pubs and drink relatively mild alcohol, like beer. Some people go into pubs and drink relatively strong alcohol, like whisky. Why do you think most people would choose mild versions of cannabis?

But I think Cockburn's main point is not about whether cannabis should be legal. It's that the focus on whether it should be legal distracts from the point that it is/can be harmful.

[Bristolhibby]

It’s an odd one this.

If we discovered alchol or tobacco now brand new, it wouldn’t be legalised because of the damage it does.

However the damage cannabis does pales into insignificance compared to booze and fags.

Perhaps bring in more forgiving cannabis. Regulate it, tax it, have age restrictions, etc. But clamp down on the super strength, **** you up, super skunk.

Or only allow a certain amount per person, per month. Kinda like absynthe in pubs.

I am definately on the side of legalising and taking it out of the hands of criminals. It wastes Police time and resource, it earns a fortune for organised crime so will hit their pockets, and it will generate revenue. That revenue IMHO should be ploughed into drug abstinence and support programmes.

J

[pollution]

The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

If I have missed something here please tell me.

[CropleyWasGod]

The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

If I have missed something here please tell me.People who use cannabis generally don't steal to fund its use. That's more typical of users of harder drugs.

As for the pricing, how do you know the price will rise? If it's legal, more people will be involved in its supply. Competition will keep the price relatively low, possibly lower than it is just now with its limited availability.

The "pusher" will be almost extinct.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[RyeSloan]

The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

If I have missed something here please tell me.

Well I know governments are generally stupid but if they do legalise it then drive the price to a level where the black market proliferates even more then they are very stupid indeed.

But let’s be honest this is a plant that can be grown anywhere with a wee bit care and attention and if legalised then a lot of people would just grow their own. Government approved and (sensibly taxed) sources would then make up the rest. There would be little or no market for any other source on any scale if done properly.

You would also have to smoke a hell of a lot of weed to need to be career criminal to fund your habit!

As for the term ‘pushers’ I’ve not heard that since the 80’s [emoji2]

[Killiehibbie]

Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁what you would get is a test for the level of thc. That way you only find yourself in bother if actually under the influence.

[Pretty Boy]

Any plans for triple sods, cake or clarky cats?

[Curried]

Well I know governments are generally stupid but if they do legalise it then drive the price to a level where the black market proliferates even more then they are very stupid indeed.

But let’s be honest this is a plant that can be grown anywhere with a wee bit care and attention and if legalised then a lot of people would just grow their own. Government approved and (sensibly taxed) sources would then make up the rest. There would be little or no market for any other source on any scale if done properly.

You would also have to smoke a hell of a lot of weed to need to be career criminal to fund your habit!

As for the term ‘pushers’ I’ve not heard that since the 80’s [emoji2]


Well, now if I were president of this land
You know, I'd declare total war on the pusher man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2Q4Y

[heretoday]

Actually, if Brits got into the habit of taking cannabis at the weekends instead of flipping great vats of alcohol the country would be a better place.

I don't advocate smoking joints though. Tobacco is very bad for you.

[silverhibee]

:smokin

[Haymaker]

Any plans for triple sods, cake or clarky cats?

Cake? I don't want to cry all the water out of my body or get "Czech Neck" so that should remain illegal.

[Chic Murray]

Chief Medical Officer for England says it should be on prescription, based on evidence that's been available for years; government moves to cut back on bookies shops despite it being a massive source of income (apparently they've just discovered gambling is addictive); Brexit will lead to greater trading opportunities with the US, a major cannabis producer; seminars on how to invest in Cannabis in the City of London.

Join the dots folks.

[CropleyWasGod]

Chief Medical Officer for England says it should be on prescription, based on evidence that's been available for years; government moves to cut back on bookies shops despite it being a massive source of income (apparently they've just discovered gambling is addictive); Brexit will lead to greater trading opportunities with the US, a major cannabis producer; seminars on how to invest in Cannabis in the City of London.

Join the dots folks.

This dot says that the world's largest producer of legal cannabis is the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legal-uk-worlds-largest-producer-marijuana-weed-un-body-findings-a8243921.html

[Chic Murray]

This dot says that the world's largest producer of legal cannabis is the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legal-uk-worlds-largest-producer-marijuana-weed-un-body-findings-a8243921.html

Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.

[CropleyWasGod]

Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.We can have both.

Reduced costs for the justice system. Improved health for those in need. Increase in the tax take. Increases in legitimate employment.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[beensaidbefore]

Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.



Why would it matter what colour the businessmen were?

[RyeSloan]

Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.

The biggest cannabis agri firms are actually Canadian firms rather than US.

[Chic Murray]

Why would it matter what colour the businessmen were?

Historically the vast major criminalised over Marijuana have been black. Some see the legalisation in that country as indicative of an ongoing war on race, as the vast majority of those profiting now are white.

Worth reading more, if you're interested. Google is your friend. :greengrin

[Chic Murray]

The biggest cannabis agri firms are actually Canadian firms rather than US.

Thanks, but it doesn't change the main thrust of my argument.

[Chic Murray]

We can have both.

Reduced costs for the justice system. Improved health for those in need. Increase in the tax take. Increases in legitimate employment.

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Yes, we can, and we appear to be heading there. Ironic though that society's morality shifts according to who lobbies hardest. Bookies are now pariahs again, with a loss of jobs.

[RyeSloan]

Thanks, but it doesn't change the main thrust of my argument.

Might indicate how well researched it is tho :-)

Naa seriously nothing significant can happen in the states without a racial lens being put on it. Race may be an element to the recent liberation of state laws on cannabis but if it is I’m not buying the fact that it is the primary driver.

Clearly the US market for weed is a significant new market so it’s no surprise that there is capital chasing that. And with some players worth multi $b and the likes of Canopy already listed on the NYSE investor shows in London are not really an indication of anything but standard fair.

[Chic Murray]

Might indicate how well researched it is tho :-)

Naa seriously nothing significant can happen in the states without a racial lens being put on it. Race may be an element to the recent liberation of state laws on cannabis but if it is I’m not buying the fact that it is the primary driver.

Clearly the US market for weed is a significant new market so it’s no surprise that there is capital chasing that. And with some players worth multi $b and the likes of Canopy already listed on the NYSE investor shows in London are not really an indication of anything but standard fair.

Researched at the University of the Bloke in the Pub. :greengrin

Feel free to make corrections that will make a significant difference to the hypothesis.

Lets put it another way, most of the people investing in Cannabis are white. You can take whatever conclusion from that you want.

Likewise, business is investing, bookies are getting closed, and the Chief Medical Officer has come out and backed medicinal Cannabis. People can draw their own conclusions.

Id be interested in alternative interpretations.

[RyeSloan]

Researched at the University of the Bloke in the Pub. :greengrin

Feel free to make corrections that will make a significant difference to the hypothesis.

Lets put it another way, most of the people investing in Cannabis are white. You can take whatever conclusion from that you want.

Likewise, business is investing, bookies are getting closed, and the Chief Medical Officer has come out and backed medicinal Cannabis. People can draw their own conclusions.

Id be interested in alternative interpretations.

Ahh defo the best place for research that’s for sure [emoji1303][emoji38]


But none the less it seems impossible for you to have any reliable evidence of what colour of skin investors have in a business, especially ones that are publicly listed....not a statistic share register analysis normally evidences. Or indeed the percentage of white investors in cannabis v other markets. How does the percentage of investors that are white in the cannabis industry compare to the percentage of investors that are white is say technology or biotech or any other industry that the States tends to dominate?

Then of course there is the obvious examples where the investor is not white as we see with Casa Verde Capital which is an extremely prominent cannabis industry investor.

The there is another couple of counter arguments in that, as per some statistics, black people in America are 4 times more likely to be prosecuted for cannabis then the legalisation of it will benefit them significantly. Also there is the suggestion that prohibition of the drug was racially motivated in the first place, that narrative seems somewhat at odds if the removal of that prohibition is now also being described as racially motivated.

So as I said I’m not buying the fact the the primary driver for the wave of legalisation across the US is based in racial prejudice. If anything this is a classic case of correlation not causation.

And finally I’ve got no idea about how any of that links to bookies being closed 🤪

[Chic Murray]

Ahh defo the best place for research that’s for sure [emoji1303][emoji38]


But none the less it seems impossible for you to have any reliable evidence of what colour of skin investors have in a business, especially ones that are publicly listed....not a statistic share register analysis normally evidences. Or indeed the percentage of white investors in cannabis v other markets. How does the percentage of investors that are white in the cannabis industry compare to the percentage of investors that are white is say technology or biotech or any other industry that the States tends to dominate?

Then of course there is the obvious examples where the investor is not white as we see with Casa Verde Capital which is an extremely prominent cannabis industry investor.

The there is another couple of counter arguments in that, as per some statistics, black people in America are 4 times more likely to be prosecuted for cannabis then the legalisation of it will benefit them significantly. Also there is the suggestion that prohibition of the drug was racially motivated in the first place, that narrative seems somewhat at odds if the removal of that prohibition is now also being described as racially motivated.

So as I said I’m not buying the fact the the primary driver for the wave of legalisation across the US is based in racial prejudice. If anything this is a classic case of correlation not causation.

And finally I’ve got no idea about how any of that links to bookies being closed 🤪

Close bookies, lose tax, empty shops, need new stream of tax, empty shops. No evidence, they haven't been good enough to admit it.

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying there are lots of signs that legalisation is imminent.

"White Man" need not necessarily relate to skin colour, rather respectability, although chances are most of the funders do have white skin, given the socio-economic mix of the USA.

Some have also said that the war on drugs was actually a war on black people, no citations available. I

Back to the point I made, I reckon legalisation will be soon in the UK. I am not in charge of the decision making process, and all I am doing is reading the signs.

[Stranraer]

Up until very recently I smoked it a lot. I stopped because it was costing me a lot and it was making me lazy. I have two staffies that need a lot of exercise and the weed made me just want to sit in the house. Not sure if it has that effect on everyone though.

[beensaidbefore]

Close bookies, lose tax, empty shops, need new stream of tax, empty shops. No evidence, they haven't been good enough to admit it.

I think you're missing the point. I'm saying there are lots of signs that legalisation is imminent.

"White Man" need not necessarily relate to skin colour, rather respectability, although chances are most of the funders do have white skin, given the socio-economic mix of the USA.

Some have also said that the war on drugs was actually a war on black people, no citations available. I

Back to the point I made, I reckon legalisation will be soon in the UK. I am not in charge of the decision making process, and all I am doing is reading the signs.



Why use he term white man? I think you are trying to highlight something that doesn't really exist. Are you Yaya Toure?

[beensaidbefore]

Up until very recently I smoked it a lot. I stopped because it was costing me a lot and it was making me lazy. I have two staffies that need a lot of exercise and the weed made me just want to sit in the house. Not sure if it has that effect on everyone though.

If you could have went somewhere and bought less strong stuff for slightly less cost would you have? A bit pollen for example?

[Chic Murray]

Why use he term white man? I think you are trying to highlight something that doesn't really exist. Are you Yaya Toure?

I suspect you are looking for something that isn't there. Maybe I should have said "Men Who Mostly Are Not Black?

I hadn't really thought of it. It's part of the conspiracy theory in stoner circles.

Watch movies like Savages. Ya Ya Toure got turned down for a part.

[beensaidbefore]

I suspect you are looking for something that isn't there. Maybe I should have said "Men Who Mostly Are Not Black?

I hadn't really thought of it. It's part of the conspiracy theory in stoner circles.

Watch movies like Savages. Ya Ya Toure got turned down for a part.


Cool mate. Sounds like you have a good supply. Any going spare?😉

[Navids Numpties]

I know I’ll get stic for this but I don’t agree that it should be legalised, only for medicinal purposes. When I was younger I smoked so much that I was hearing voices in my head and I know this was due to my over consumption but when you think it’s fine to smoke you willl smoke to excess. I was constantly in and out the Andrew Duncan hospital. It totally ruined my life for a few years and my families. Thankfully I am better now but am traumatised from the ordeal. If it was legal I would advise nobody to smoke it as it certainly does nothing but damage your lungs and your mental health. I agree though that it should be legal for medicinal purposes such as for people who suffer from Parkinson’s, seizures or cancer and other medical conditions as it does actually help. I know I’ll probably get stick for this and what I say but please do stay away from it guys. Thanks.

[Killiehibbie]

I know I’ll get stic for this but I don’t agree that it should be legalised, only for medicinal purposes. When I was younger I smoked so much that I was hearing voices in my head and I know this was due to my over consumption but when you think it’s fine to smoke you willl smoke to excess. I was constantly in and out the Andrew Duncan hospital. It totally ruined my life for a few years and my families. Thankfully I am better now but am traumatised from the ordeal. If it was legal I would advise nobody to smoke it as it certainly does nothing but damage your lungs and your mental health. I agree though that it should be legal for medicinal purposes such as for people who suffer from Parkinson’s, seizures or cancer and other medical conditions as it does actually help. I know I’ll probably get stick for this and what I say but please do stay away from it guys. Thanks.

Same could be said for alcohol, gambling, chocolate biscuits and loads of other things.

[RyeSloan]

Same could be said for alcohol, gambling, chocolate biscuits and loads of other things.

Not sure too many go to the Andrew Duncan for eating too many chocolate biscuits...

[Killiehibbie]

Not sure too many go to the Andrew Duncan for eating too many chocolate biscuits...

Maybe not but too much of anything can lead to problems.

[Chic Murray]

Not sure too many go to the Andrew Duncan for eating too many chocolate biscuits...

Eating Disorders spring to mind.

[Elem3nt17]

If a person is addicted to painkillers than cannabis, such as jelly bean (https://cannasos.com/strains/hybrid/jillybean) can save the situation and help people recover their pains. So I think that medical marijuana should be legalized.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If a person is addicted to painkillers than cannabis, such as jelly bean (https://cannasos.com/strains/hybrid/jillybean) can save the situation and help people recover their pains. So I think that medical marijuana should be legalized.

My Mrs is addicted to Tramadol. It is part of mixture of tablets that she has to take. The advice from her GP is that as she needs them, there is more harm in not taking them on the proviso that the dosage does not exceed what she is told to take. Difference is that it comes in box from the chemist, rather than a mate of a mate inva dodgy flat.

[beensaidbefore]

Legal for recreational use in Canada from today. Well done them, I say. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45806255

[Chic Murray]

As far as I'm concerned, all drugs discussion should start with why people take them. The answer is usually "because they enjoy it."

As a society we should do all we can to remove the danger, and to help people make informed choices. Too much policy is nothing more than a judgement on people's morality.

[beensaidbefore]

As far as I'm concerned, all drugs discussion should start with why people take them. The answer is usually "because they enjoy it."

As a society we should do all we can to remove the danger, and to help people make informed choices. Too much policy is nothing more than a judgement on people's morality.

Amen to that.

[pollution]

In the Barcelona Municipal area anyone can grow up to five plants as long as they are out of public sight.

I don't know what amount of cannabis this produces but it a no brainer for smokers.

Cheap as chips too.

What strength of a joint this produces I don't know but I think the government will relax the law on its use at some stage.

They will add duty to it and VAT if they eventually allow over the counter sales. This is when dealers will make a killing out of it.

Don't think the government will keep it artificially cheap to fight the black market for it. They must apply tax and duty fairly to alcohol, cigs and cannabis

across the board. It will be yet another source of billions in tax if they legalise it.

Therefore be careful what you wish for.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the Barcelona Municipal area anyone can grow up to five plants as long as they are out of public sight.

I don't know what amount of cannabis this produces but it a no brainer for smokers.

Cheap as chips too.

What strength of a joint this produces I don't know but I think the government will relax the law on its use at some stage.

They will add duty to it and VAT if they eventually allow over the counter sales. This is when dealers will make a killing out of it.

Don't think the government will keep it artificially cheap to fight the black market for it. They must apply tax and duty fairly to alcohol, cigs and cannabis

across the board. It will be yet another source of billions in tax if they legalise it.

Therefore be careful what you wish for.Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. An increase in tax revenue is a good thing, no?

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[pollution]

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. An increase in tax revenue is a good thing, no?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


What I mean is if a cost of a cannabis cigarette at the moment is eg £10 after legalisation added duties etc tax that will cost £13 to £14 over the counter.

Dealers who sell it now for £10 will make killing by undercutting the new price to eg£12.

These are ball park figures. That's why some people in California still buy illegally as it is much cheaper than buying over the counter, so to speak.

[CropleyWasGod]

What I mean is if a cost of a cannabis cigarette at the moment is eg £10 after legalisation added duties etc tax that will cost £13 to £14 over the counter.

Dealers who sell it now for £10 will make killing by undercutting the new price to eg£12.

These are ball park figures. That's why some people in California still buy illegally as it is much cheaper than buying over the counter, so to speak.The market in California is still very young, and will take a while to develop. As will law enforcement against illegal dealers. Once it does, and once people realise that they can rely on the legal supply, a lot of people will be making a good living, legally, and hence the Government will too.

There will also be a lot less police time involved too, which has to be a good thing.

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[beensaidbefore]

What I mean is if a cost of a cannabis cigarette at the moment is eg £10 after legalisation added duties etc tax that will cost £13 to £14 over the counter.

Dealers who sell it now for £10 will make killing by undercutting the new price to eg£12.

These are ball park figures. That's why some people in California still buy illegally as it is much cheaper than buying over the counter, so to speak.

That's true, but consistent quality is a huge factor. Using Amsterdam as an example, they have menus to choose from and you are guaranteed a good product. Buying from street dealers would be akin to buying decent home brew for a bit cheaper than a few cans from the shop.

[RyeSloan]

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. An increase in tax revenue is a good thing, no?

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Not always Crops, you should know that [emoji57]

[CropleyWasGod]

Not always Crops, you should know that [emoji57]Depends how the *******s spend it, right enough [emoji38]

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[heretoday]

Legalise cannabis? You're encouraging folk to roll joints with tobacco?
Haven't we spent billions on health campaigns about this in the last few decades?

[Ryan69]

Its definately a good thing...and hopefully many more countries follow Canada and Uruguay with legalisation.

Cannabis causes far less trouble and deaths than Alcohol.


I lived in The Netherlands for 8 years,and smoked it regularly.
I actually stopped smoking it there!

When people have a choice...its far better.

Alot of people only smoke it cause its illegal,when its as easy as buying a packet of cigarettes....It loses abit of appeal i found.

Nothing against it...Just found I wasnt really that interested in it anymore

[calumhibee1]

Legalise cannabis? You're encouraging folk to roll joints with tobacco?
Haven't we spent billions on health campaigns about this in the last few decades?

Most people wouldn’t smoke it with tobacco I wouldn’t think?

[heretoday]

Most people wouldn’t smoke it with tobacco I wouldn’t think?

Well I wonder! In Canada it's probably cheaper to buy so you could drop it into a pipe or roll a spliff with it or whatever without needing tobacco.

Hard to say though, eh? More research required. At one time I'd volunteer to help, but I'll stick to red wine!

[Haymaker]

Well I wonder! In Canada it's probably cheaper to buy so you could drop it into a pipe or roll a spliff with it or whatever without needing tobacco.

Hard to say though, eh? More research required. At one time I'd volunteer to help, but I'll stick to red wine!

Everyone I know here in the US that smokes it does it straight. In fact, the idea of mixing it with baccy is appalling to them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well I wonder! In Canada it's probably cheaper to buy so you could drop it into a pipe or roll a spliff with it or whatever without needing tobacco.

Hard to say though, eh? More research required. At one time I'd volunteer to help, but I'll stick to red wine!

And then there's the food additives. Cookies, stews and the likes. Much healthier.

Canada has now become a living experiment, and one which Europe and the rest of the West should be looking at with interest. A nationwide experience in health, recreation, social attitudes, tax, and many other factors.

[silverhibee]

Everyone I know here in the US that smokes it does it straight. In fact, the idea of mixing it with baccy is appalling to them.

Sure if it was to be legalised in UK more folk would turn to vaping it, cuts out the nicotine.

[heretoday]

Sure if it was to be legalised in UK more folk would turn to vaping it, cuts out the nicotine.

If that is possible then that's the way. I've no beef against dope. I've smoked enough in my time but I am vehemently anti smoking fags.

[Jack Hackett]

Meh!

I'm now in my late 60's and I've been smoking since the '70s. Legal or not, I will continue until I die because I like it. My Life My Choice

[Ryan69]

Meh!

I'm now in my late 60's and I've been smoking since the '70s. Legal or not, I will continue until I die because I like it. My Life My Choice

You Criminal...;)

[Jack Hackett]

You Criminal...;)

One notes your location and raises a middle finger in salute :greengrin

[silverhibee]

If that is possible then that's the way. I've no beef against dope. I've smoked enough in my time but I am vehemently anti smoking fags.

The doc told me I had to stop smoking with nicotine, bought a vapour and a few pipes a couple of months a go and it has been a great substitute for smoking joints, still like a J at the end of the night in the garden but vaping it is the way ahead, does solids and weed.

[silverhibee]

Meh!

I'm now in my late 60's and I've been smoking since the '70s. Legal or not, I will continue until I die because I like it. My Life My Choice

Haven't smoked a normal fag for years now, may sound strange but I hate the smell of a cigarette but don't mind a joint.

[overdrive]

Most people wouldn’t smoke it with tobacco I wouldn’t think?

I think it is only really the UK where smoking it with tobacco is a common occurrence, or so I’m told.

[CapitalGreen]

I lived in The Netherlands for 8 years,and smoked it regularly.

That explains a lot. :devil:

[beensaidbefore]

I think it is only really the UK where smoking it with tobacco is a common occurrence, or so I’m told.

I think it is a legacy from when hash was the more common thing for people to smoke. Grass is now the number 1 but until the millennium it was very difficult to get.

[Slavers]

I think it should be legal it is certainly less toxic to the body than alcohol.

However it is extremely powerful substance, not to be underestimated in it's strength or psychoactive nature.

The biggest mistake I think is that people think this a recreational drug and can be used as much as one wants. It can seriously mess your mind up if you are not careful and not pay attention to your body any mind.

The regular smoker should always have off days/weeks.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it should be legal it is certainly less toxic to the body than alcohol.

However it is extremely powerful substance, not to be underestimated in it's strength or psychoactive nature.

The biggest mistake I think is that people think this a recreational drug and can be used as much as one wants. It can seriously mess your mind up if you are not careful and not pay attention to your body any mind.

The regular smoker should always have off days/weeks.

One of the arguments for legalisation is that it can be regulated. There will be control over its strength, and the user will know with certainty exactly what they are buying.

Just as with alcohol, people will learn their limits and tolerances.

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[overdrive]

Anyone just watch Dispatches?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Anyone just watch Dispatches?

Yes, Colorado.
Interesting that there's still a huge black market.
The strength of some of the legal stuff you buy was mind blowing, scuse the pun 😁

[neil7908]

It's an absolute no brainier. Legalise, regulate and tax.

[pollution]

It's an absolute no brainier. Legalise, regulate and tax.


It sounds too simple to be true. Tax and duty will increase the price compared to the black market, so to speak.

Why pay more over the counter when you can buy it from your current source for less?

[beensaidbefore]

It sounds too simple to be true. Tax and duty will increase the price compared to the black market, so to speak.

Why pay more over the counter when you can buy it from your current source for less?

It costs so much at the moment because it is illegal and risky to grow. It can be grown fairly cheaply, especially if you are not having to hide what you are doing and can grow fields of the stuff.

There is also the matter of consistent quality, which cannot be guaranteed on the black market.

As I mentioned before, would you buy some homebrew beer for slightly less than branded beer from a shop? I don't think I would.

[beensaidbefore]

https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/committee/371/ille/presentation/korf-e.htm

Quite an I teresting read that looks at how increased availability does not necessarily mean increased use, at least amongst the Dutch.

Here is more up to date article.

https://m.eastbayexpress.com/LegalizationNation/archives/2011/09/22/going-dutch-teen-marijuana-use-in-the-us-vs-netherlands-the-full-interview-with-cal-professor-robert-maccoun

[RyeSloan]

It costs so much at the moment because it is illegal and risky to grow. It can be grown fairly cheaply, especially if you are not having to hide what you are doing and can grow fields of the stuff.

There is also the matter of consistent quality, which cannot be guaranteed on the black market.

As I mentioned before, would you buy some homebrew beer for slightly less than branded beer from a shop? I don't think I would.

I believe the UK is already a large producer of cannabis for medicinal purposes so the growing industry is already there.

Not sure about the ‘home brew’ comments as the black market production is pretty sophisticated.

Agree on the price though...it would seem pretty easy to replace the premium that is charged now for the illegality element with a tax level that beats that.

Still if it was legal to grow your own then maybe the market might not be as big as expected?


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[pollution]

It costs so much at the moment because it is illegal and risky to grow. It can be grown fairly cheaply, especially if you are not having to hide what you are doing and can grow fields of the stuff.

There is also the matter of consistent quality, which cannot be guaranteed on the black market.

As I mentioned before, would you buy some homebrew beer for slightly less than branded beer from a shop? I don't think I would.


Interesting point but the government will never allow a selling price less than what the current illegal price is.

If they did they would be seen to encourage the trade and if you are happy with the current price/ product why not stick to it?

Some illegal dealers will benefit from legalisation.

[beensaidbefore]

I believe the UK is already a large producer of cannabis for medicinal purposes so the growing industry is already there.

Not sure about the ‘home brew’ comments as the black market production is pretty sophisticated.

Agree on the price though...it would seem pretty easy to replace the premium that is charged now for the illegality element with a tax level that beats that.

Still if it was legal to grow your own then maybe the market might not be as big as expected?


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I agree that the quality seems to be there, b, ut, it can be a hit or a miss. Homebrew was the best analogy I could come up with. The problem is if we both grew the same strain, we would likely get different results depending on growing method, feed type etc etc. There is also a lot of nasties that can be added to increase yield which I hope a government would be keen to avoid due to the increased health risks.

Allowing everyone to have a couple of plants would be a big step forward, but unless it was legal to sell/buy I can imagine the black market forces would exploit vulnerable people to grow for them, much as they do now but with a bit more wriggle room.

[beensaidbefore]

Interesting point but the government will never allow a selling price less than what the current illegal price is.

If they did they would be seen to encourage the trade and if you are happy with the current price/ product why not stick to it?

Some illegal dealers will benefit from legalisation.

The problem is there is no 'set' price. I could get for different prices from different people, and it also depends on quantity. I know that some people pay 12.50 for one gram of weed, whereas others pay fraction of that. Let's say an ounce goes for 200, there is a discrepancy of 150 quid there compared with the singke gram price.

[heretoday]

My current position is that dope should be legal but tobacco should be banned. How's that?