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JeMeSouviens
18-06-2018, 02:07 PM
I'm liking it so far. Delays are minimal and wrongs have been righted.

scuttle
18-06-2018, 02:15 PM
Not for me so far, some incidents not getting reviewed so too inconsistent

Hibbyradge
18-06-2018, 02:19 PM
Not for me so far, some incidents not getting reviewed so too inconsistent

Every incident is automatically reviewed.

It's only when there's a clear mistake that the ref is asked to look again.

Sylar
18-06-2018, 02:50 PM
I like it, but I can't see it being widely implemented outside of an international tournament (aside from perhaps the Champions League).

The cost (financial and personnel) of having something like this across all levels of the game would be prohibitive.

I still feel a few decisions have either been overlooked or incorrectly awarded (the penalty for France vs Australia for example wasn't clear cut IMO, but then I'm not a professional referee, and it WAS reviewed by a panel of them), but in the instances of Sweden's penalty for example, it protected against a gross injustice.

cabbageandribs1875
18-06-2018, 02:53 PM
a wrong wasn't righted last night with the clear push by the swiss gadgy with the equaliser, cheating VAR git :agree: Failure :)


http://www.goal.com/en/news/world-cup-brazil-switzerland-tite-miranda-push/1fkg23iopjc5l1jmp5xtuxxwn1


"The Miranda moment was very clear. The second play you can interpret but the first one you can't discuss - the people responsible for that must work within fairness. You have to be fair.

Hibernian Verse
18-06-2018, 02:56 PM
Credit where it is due, this World Cup has been hugely successful so far. :aok:

GreenCastle
18-06-2018, 02:58 PM
Long over due to have technology.

I still would have officialls looking at video replays make the decisions rather than the ref stopping the game and going across to side of pitch to have a look.

Rugby have it spot on with TMO and football still needs to give the refs microphones so they can explain decisions throughout games.

JeMeSouviens
18-06-2018, 02:59 PM
I like it, but I can't see it being widely implemented outside of an international tournament (aside from perhaps the Champions League).

The cost (financial and personnel) of having something like this across all levels of the game would be prohibitive.

I still feel a few decisions have either been overlooked or incorrectly awarded (the penalty for France vs Australia for example wasn't clear cut IMO, but then I'm not a professional referee, and it WAS reviewed by a panel of them), but in the instances of Sweden's penalty for example, it protected against a gross injustice.

I think it will be operating in the CL and the big (ie. rich) European leagues within a couple of years. I doubt we'll have it in Scotland any time soon.

Stevie Reid
18-06-2018, 03:01 PM
Really dislike it, and most of the stuff it is used for is still subjective anyway.

Goal line technology is all we needed.

Sylar
18-06-2018, 03:02 PM
Really dislike it, and most of the stuff it is used for is still subjective anyway.

Goal line technology is all we needed.

Goal-line technology would have seen Sweden lose out on 3 points today.

How is that better?

scuttle
18-06-2018, 03:03 PM
Every incident is automatically reviewed.

It's only when there's a clear mistake that the ref is asked to look again.

What about the swiss guys push last night ,that looked a clear mistake imo

Mon Dieu4
18-06-2018, 03:05 PM
It's been more of a success than failure but I still don't like it, still stand by it will make the game too clinical the more it's refined and worked on, grey areas are part of what makes the game, I don't want it black and white

blackpoolhibs
18-06-2018, 03:10 PM
I like it, although they do seem to be a bit slapdash in whats reviewed or not, im not sure it is.

I know radge said everything is reviewed, but there was a clear penalty in the Argentina game where we all thought it was a dive, apart from the player who was after watching the replay clearly chopped down.

Sylar
18-06-2018, 03:12 PM
I like it, although they do seem to be a bit slapdash in whats reviewed or not, im not sure it is.

I know radge said everything is reviewed, but there was a clear penalty in the Argentina game where we all thought it was a dive, apart from the player who was after watching the replay clearly chopped down.

Beginning to question that myself - how that Belgian lad wasn't booked for a horrendous dive there is beyond me.

Alfiembra
18-06-2018, 03:19 PM
VAR aside does anyone else think there will be a lot more penalties awarded domestically next season?
Seems the refs have been instructed to be particularly vigilant on the holding and pushing going on at set pieces/corners etc.

Northernhibee
18-06-2018, 03:25 PM
I despise it. Another step to making it a sanitised sport for the rugby and cricket crowd.

Stevie Reid
18-06-2018, 03:28 PM
Goal-line technology would have seen Sweden lose out on 3 points today.

How is that better?

That's a very bizarre sentence.

Do you mean that VAR was used to correctly award a penalty today? Fair enough - the referee and linesman should easily have been able to make that call though.

I don't like the addition of VAR to football. Goals are the most important thing in football, so I'm happy for technology to be used to determine if the ball crossed the line or not. I don't like it for subjective things.

Hibbyradge
18-06-2018, 03:30 PM
I despise it. Another step to making it a sanitised sport for the rugby and cricket crowd.

It's about getting more decisions right.

Plus there's a welcome side effect in that it'll make it a lot harder for referees to be accused of cheating.

Sylar
18-06-2018, 03:35 PM
That's a very bizarre sentence.

Do you mean that VAR was used to correctly award a penalty today? Fair enough - the referee and linesman should easily have been able to make that call though.

I don't like the addition of VAR to football. Goals are the most important thing in football, so I'm happy for technology to be used to determine if the ball crossed the line or not. I don't like it for subjective things.

Yes, it was. But they missed it in real-time. For a number of reasons, officials miss decisions with the speed of the game, distance from play, sight-line obstructions etc.

Goals ARE the most important thing, and penalties are a signficant opportunity to score one - when they're marginal, or unclear, and are either wrongly awarded/not-awarded, they can have massive financial ramifications.

So getting those decisions correct is every bit as important as goalline technology IMO - use of VAR for every single throw-in, free kick, injury etc? Yeah, it could become excessive. But if it cuts out cheating, accusations of cheating, missing critical decisions, it's a good thing.

Hibbyradge
18-06-2018, 03:36 PM
That's a very bizarre sentence.

Do you mean that VAR was used to correctly award a penalty today? Fair enough - the referee and linesman should easily have been able to make that call though.

I don't like the addition of VAR to football. Goals are the most important thing in football, so I'm happy for technology to be used to determine if the ball crossed the line or not. I don't like it for subjective things.

The penalty decision wasn't subjective. It was clear cut and the referee and linesman had made a mistake.

Maradona would have been sent off for the hand of god incident if they had VAR.

People might enjoy England's misfortune, but it was blatant cheating.

Same for the Thierry Henry hand balls against Ireland. I'm glad some of the cheating will be stopped.

Caversham Green
18-06-2018, 03:39 PM
Limited success for me, I think it needs a few tweaks.

I could see why the ref didn't give what was a stonewaller for Sweden, because on first sight it looked (to me) like the Korean had got the ball first, but on seeing the other angle it was a clear penalty. On the downside South Korea were on the attack when the game was stopped - if they'd got the ball upfield a bit quicker and scored there could have been a few problems. Likewise a booking or sending off offence in what is effectively a void passage of play eg handling the ball on the line at the other end.

I still wonder if an appeal system might work - Sweden would have made some sort of official appeal (like time outs in the American game) and the game is stopped immediately until the ref see the video and then makes his decision. That would carry its own problems which would have to be ironed out but to my mind voiding out a whole sequence of play doesn't hang right.

Since90+2
18-06-2018, 03:42 PM
Limited success for me, I think it needs a few tweaks.

I could see why the ref didn't give what was a stonewaller for Sweden, because on first sight it looked (to me) like the Korean had got the ball first, but on seeing the other angle it was a clear penalty. On the downside South Korea were on the attack when the game was stopped - if they'd got the ball upfield a bit quicker and scored there could have been a few problems. Likewise a booking or sending off offence in what is effectively a void passage of play eg handling the ball on the line at the other end.

I still wonder if an appeal system might work - Sweden would have made some sort of official appeal (like time outs in the American game) and the game is stopped immediately until the ref see the video and then makes his decision. That would carry its own problems which would have to be ironed out but to my mind voiding out a whole sequence of play doesn't hang right.

An appeal system would be wide open for misuse by managers.

Stevie Reid
18-06-2018, 03:42 PM
Yes, it was. But they missed it in real-time. For a number of reasons, officials miss decisions with the speed of the game, distance from play, sight-line obstructions etc.

Goals ARE the most important thing, and penalties are a signficant opportunity to score one - when they're marginal, or unclear, and are either wrongly awarded/not-awarded, they can have massive financial ramifications.

So getting those decisions correct is every bit as important as goalline technology IMO - use of VAR for every single throw-in, free kick, injury etc? Yeah, it could become excessive. But if it cuts out cheating, accusations of cheating, missing critical decisions, it's a good thing.

Fair enough man, I just prefer it as it was. In football, tennis, cricket, rugby (not that I give a **** about the latter three!) I think technology being used to establish the binary things is a good step forward - I just don't feel that way about the other things. There's still been plenty controversy even when it is being used, so I'd prefer it not to be.

Caversham Green
18-06-2018, 03:46 PM
An appeal system would be wide open for misuse by managers.

That's one of the things that would have to be ironed out - maybe the threat of a penalty if the ref reckons the appeal was frivolous?

Hibbyradge
18-06-2018, 03:48 PM
That's one of the things that would have to be ironed out - maybe the threat of a penalty if the ref reckons the appeal was frivolous?

Or simply stop the clock while the appeal is being considered.

Caversham Green
18-06-2018, 03:55 PM
Or simply stop the clock while the appeal is being considered.

That should happen anyway, but a manager could use it to stop a quick breakaway for example - no actual offence but the manager makes the appeal simply to stop play.

Hibernian Verse
18-06-2018, 04:05 PM
I despise it. Another step to making it a sanitised sport for the rugby and cricket crowd.

As a fan of both football and rugby I can tell you that Rugby games are far better officiated than football games.

And I'd also ask you to not be so patronising towards fans of other sports, we're all Hibees on here (well most of us!).

Northernhibee
18-06-2018, 04:15 PM
As a fan of both football and rugby I can tell you that Rugby games are far better officiated than football games.

And I'd also ask you to not be so patronising towards fans of other sports, we're all Hibees on here (well most of us!).
Well, if people like their sport lacking controversy then fair enough.

Nothing better than the debates of was it or was it not a goal/penalty/red card that comes from human decisions in the heat of the moment.

percy veer
18-06-2018, 04:16 PM
The penalty decision wasn't subjective. It was clear cut and the referee and linesman had made a mistake.

Maradona would have been sent off for the hand of god incident if they had VAR.

People might enjoy England's misfortune, but it was blatant cheating.

Same for the Thierry Henry hand balls against Ireland. I'm glad some of the cheating will be stopped.



would they just not have been yellows?

Hibbyradge
18-06-2018, 04:30 PM
would they just not have been yellows?

You're probably right, but it seems strange that deliberately using a hand to score is a yellow while stopping a goal with a hand is a red.

beensaidbefore
18-06-2018, 04:43 PM
VAR aside does anyone else think there will be a lot more penalties awarded domestically next season?
Seems the refs have been instructed to be particularly vigilant on the holding and pushing going on at set pieces/corners etc.

My issue is the sligtest touch on an attacker equals a foul, but the same protection is not given to defenders. fwiw i think attackes now go down far to easily and look to dive at any opportunity which is only gonna get worse with var. this was an opportunity to rid the game of diving but sadly it seems to have been missed.

Hibernian Verse
18-06-2018, 04:56 PM
Well, if people like their sport lacking controversy then fair enough.

Nothing better than the debates of was it or was it not a goal/penalty/red card that comes from human decisions in the heat of the moment.See the last rugby world cup for controversy. Our own country was involved. I appreciate your point of view but for me a fair result with fair decisions is more important than whether or not I can have a discussion in the pub

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danhibees1875
18-06-2018, 05:42 PM
It's been more of a success than failure but I still don't like it, still stand by it will make the game too clinical the more it's refined and worked on, grey areas are part of what makes the game, I don't want it black and white

I'm with you on this one. :aok:

Stevie Reid
18-06-2018, 06:49 PM
Clearly can't help inconsistent refereeing.

AZhibee
18-06-2018, 09:45 PM
Video review has been a tremendous benefit to all sports used, but there is usually a time period of ironing out the wrinkles, and fans getting used to it.

Sioux
18-06-2018, 09:47 PM
My issue is the sligtest touch on an attacker equals a foul, but the same protection is not given to defenders. fwiw i think attackes now go down far to easily and look to dive at any opportunity which is only gonna get worse with var. this was an opportunity to rid the game of diving but sadly it seems to have been missed.

Agree with that. So far, in the games I've seen, players are, as usual, falling about all over the place from minimal contact. Blatant cheating. Must the only sport in the world that allows cheating at that level.

It's that part of the game that needs seriously looked at. Games are often won or lost because of some fannie falling over because someone looked at him.

hfc rd
18-06-2018, 10:16 PM
Before the World Cup started, I was totally against VAR due to all the dubious decisions being made in the FA Cup. Having said that, it’s been a very good addition to this World Cup. 1-2 small grey areas still need to be worked upon but it’s been more a success than a failure during this World Cup so far.

Forza Fred
19-06-2018, 01:18 AM
Experienced VAR for half a season here in Oz.

My summation

Will it REDUCE wrong decisions.........Yes
Will it result in No wrong decisions.......No
Will wrong decisions be given AFTER viewing the VAR.....Yes
Will it affect the natural ‘flow’ of the game.......Yes
Will there be times that the VAR is NOT used when most think it should....Yes

Humans are involved, mistakes will continue to be made......VAR will reduce that, but not eliminate wrong decisions....and I guess the question is.......is the stop/start nature of the technology worth the outcome?

I’m still undecided after several months.....

jgl07
19-06-2018, 02:36 AM
I think it will be operating in the CL and the big (ie. rich) European leagues within a couple of years. I doubt we'll have it in Scotland any time soon.

A shame.

I wonder how many years Rangers would have been denied trophies if VAR had been in use?

Forza Fred
19-06-2018, 02:50 AM
VAR aside does anyone else think there will be a lot more penalties awarded domestically next season?
Seems the refs have been instructed to be particularly vigilant on the holding and pushing going on at set pieces/corners etc.

if that is the case then..GOOD

This practice appears to have been allowed to creep into the game over the past few seasons, and has been tolerated and allowed to almost 'be part of the game'

Had such things been done in the seventies say, even in amateur football, penalties would have been awarded all over the place...it just didn't exist.

I don't know why referees suddenly relaxed their vigilance on this..but do remember back in part of the nineties shirt holding seemed to get a bit of a green light for a while too, until it was decided that it should be stamped out.

No room for shirt holding or any kind of rugby tackling...and sharp decisive action will soon eliminate its prevalence.

Haymaker
19-06-2018, 03:54 AM
Goal-line technology would have seen Sweden lose out on 3 points today.

How is that better?

I thought they were using GLT this world cup?

InchHibby
19-06-2018, 04:35 AM
if that is the case then..GOOD

This practice appears to have been allowed to creep into the game over the past few seasons, and has been tolerated and allowed to almost 'be part of the game'

Had such things been done in the seventies say, even in amateur football, penalties would have been awarded all over the place...it just didn't exist.

I don't know why referees suddenly relaxed their vigilance on this..but do remember back in part of the nineties shirt holding seemed to get a bit of a green light for a while too, until it was decided that it should be stamped out.

No room for shirt holding or any kind of rugby tackling...and sharp decisive action will soon eliminate its prevalence.
There were two, at least, particular examples of not only shirt pulling but basically wrestling Harry Kane to the ground at corners in England’s game against Tunisia last night. Two, at least, definite penalty claims for England but totally ignored by the Ref.
If they are going to use camera evidence then it has to be done right, not to pick and choose what they think should be re-viewed.

Jim44
19-06-2018, 05:01 AM
There were two, at least, particular examples of not only shirt pulling but basically wrestling Harry Kane to the ground at corners in England’s game against Tunisia last night. Two, at least, definite penalty claims for England but totally ignored by the Ref.
If they are going to use camera evidence then it has to be done right, not to pick and choose what they think should be re-viewed.

Yes it’s too inconsistent. Kane was definitely rugby tackled at least twice. One was a certain penalty but on the other occasion you could clearly see an England player, in the same camera shot, blatantly push an opponent in the back. This was a certain penalty but none of this ‘action’ was picked out for VAR. In other matches similar offences have been missed. In effect, VAR has replaced one problem in the game with another, ie. the vigilance, ineptitude or partiality of the VAR officials.

hibbysam
19-06-2018, 05:01 AM
There were two, at least, particular examples of not only shirt pulling but basically wrestling Harry Kane to the ground at corners in England’s game against Tunisia last night. Two, at least, definite penalty claims for England but totally ignored by the Ref.
If they are going to use camera evidence then it has to be done right, not to pick and choose what they think should be re-viewed.

I agree with the first one, but I still think now that the second one he instigated himself. They made sure the ref knew what went on before and he clearly pulls the defenders arm over his own shoulder and falls to make it look like he had been wrestled.

Forza Fred
19-06-2018, 05:23 AM
There were two, at least, particular examples of not only shirt pulling but basically wrestling Harry Kane to the ground at corners in England’s game against Tunisia last night. Two, at least, definite penalty claims for England but totally ignored by the Ref.
If they are going to use camera evidence then it has to be done right, not to pick and choose what they think should be re-viewed.

The question originally posed I responded to came with the rider ‘VAR aside...’

TB F ..if the referees can’t see the blatant pulling and wrestling at corners, which now seems to occur at most games and is ignored, it’s not VAR they need...it’s a Check up at Specsavers.....

CallumLaidlaw
19-06-2018, 05:51 AM
I’m all for it. Anything to get more decisions right. Folk saying it ends debate - couldn’t disagree more. There will be plenty of debate.


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Forza Fred
19-06-2018, 06:07 AM
I’m all for it. Anything to get more decisions right. Folk saying it ends debate - couldn’t disagree more. There will be plenty of debate.


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Hopefully referees WILL be able to end debate about their decisions.....it’s a game of fitba where one team is trying to beat the other at fitba.......debate only arises through decisions that are not clear.

We lost the game, but won the debate....😟

Scouse Hibee
19-06-2018, 06:15 AM
Goal line technology is enough for me. Last night showed that VAR still doesn't guarantee the correct decisions will be made.

CallumLaidlaw
19-06-2018, 06:16 AM
Hopefully referees WILL be able to end debate about their decisions.....it’s a game of fitba where one team is trying to beat the other at fitba.......debate only arises through decisions that are not clear.

We lost the game, but won the debate....[emoji45]

I don’t just mean around refs decisions. We’ll still have plenty to debate. I’m also not too worried that all of a sudden 100% of decisions will be correct. It still comes down to opinion. But as long as it improves, and helps get the glaring ones right, I’m behind it.
They do need to get more consistent at calling reviews tho. Kane got dragged to the ground last night - was a stonewaller.


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hibbysam
19-06-2018, 06:35 AM
Goal line technology is enough for me. Last night showed that VAR still doesn't guarantee the correct decisions will be made.

For me it’s about the certainties, goal line, offside, in or out the box etc, the referee still referees the game himself, and can check over the black and white decisions, handballs, fouls etc are all down to interpretation.

guidref
19-06-2018, 06:40 AM
Yes it’s too inconsistent. Kane was definitely rugby tackled at least twice. One was a certain penalty but on the other occasion you could clearly see an England player, in the same camera shot, blatantly push an opponent in the back. This was a certain penalty but none of this ‘action’ was picked out for VAR. In other matches similar offences have been missed. In effect, VAR has replaced one problem in the game with another, ie. the vigilance, ineptitude or partiality of the VAR officials.

The issue with this is that at every corner you see multiple fouls committed by both sides. If you look at the incidents with Harry Kane that the media are all over this morning you can see that he is clearly fouled. What you can also see, but is being blatently ignored by the English media, is in every instance the same offence being committed by an England player.

This is generally what happens at every corner in every match from the world cup to the amateurs.

The referee cannot punish 1 and ignore the other.

I can say as an ex-ref it does make the ref's life a bit easier as when to happens you just point to the other offence and explain you cant give one without the other

Forza Fred
19-06-2018, 06:53 AM
The issue with this is that at every corner you see multiple fouls committed by both sides. If you look at the incidents with Harry Kane that the media are all over this morning you can see that he is clearly fouled. What you can also see, but is being blatently ignored by the English media, is in every instance the same offence being committed by an England player.

This is generally what happens at every corner in every match from the world cup to the amateurs.

The referee cannot punish 1 and ignore the other.

I can say as an ex-ref it does make the ref's life a bit easier as when to happens you just point to the other offence and explain you cant give one without the other

I know people who have tried that argument when booked for speeding, and it didn’t work for them.

guidref
19-06-2018, 06:58 AM
I know people who have tried that argument when booked for speeding, and it didn’t work for them.

different laws! your comparing apples with oranges

Sylar
19-06-2018, 07:04 AM
I thought they were using GLT this world cup?

They are, but GLT doesn't help right the wrongs of a missed penalty.

Caversham Green
19-06-2018, 07:14 AM
The issue with this is that at every corner you see multiple fouls committed by both sides. If you look at the incidents with Harry Kane that the media are all over this morning you can see that he is clearly fouled. What you can also see, but is being blatently ignored by the English media, is in every instance the same offence being committed by an England player.

This is generally what happens at every corner in every match from the world cup to the amateurs.

The referee cannot punish 1 and ignore the other.

I can say as an ex-ref it does make the ref's life a bit easier as when to happens you just point to the other offence and explain you cant give one without the other

Is it because most of the pushing and wrestling takes place before the kick is taken, therefore the ref can't award a penalty as the ball is already out of play? I know that wasn't the case with Harry Kane last night and I'm mystified as to why a penalty wasn't given there either by the ref or VAR.

Even if that is the case I think the offences are bookable at least and the refs should be waving their cards to prevent it.

Mick O'Rourke
19-06-2018, 07:22 AM
Really dislike it, and most of the stuff it is used for is still subjective anyway.

Goal line technology is all we needed.


I Second that motion!
The England game last night had "incidents" this VAR was designed to sort out.
It didn't.
Scrap it,i say !

HIBEES 4 LIFE
19-06-2018, 10:52 AM
You're probably right, but it seems strange that deliberately using a hand to score is a yellow while stopping a goal with a hand is a red.

Thats down to the wording of the laws. Just like when people constantly go on about "last man". The law is "preventing an obvious goal scoring opportunity". So in the case of being the last man it is mostly a red...but in the case of handling on the line it always is a red. That is why despite Maradona blatantly cheating it is not a red.

Greentinted
19-06-2018, 12:05 PM
Thats down to the wording of the laws. Just like when people constantly go on about "last man". The law is "preventing an obvious goal scoring opportunity". So in the case of being the last man it is mostly a red...but in the case of handling on the line it always is a red. That is why despite Maradona blatantly cheating it is not a red.

And as if by magic, your explanation demonstrated right on cue...

HIBEES 4 LIFE
19-06-2018, 02:16 PM
And as if by magic, your explanation demonstrated right on cue...

Knew it.....

Hibbyradge
19-06-2018, 02:20 PM
Thats down to the wording of the laws. Just like when people constantly go on about "last man". The law is "preventing an obvious goal scoring opportunity". So in the case of being the last man it is mostly a red...but in the case of handling on the line it always is a red. That is why despite Maradona blatantly cheating it is not a red.

I know. I just feel that deliberately scoring with your hand is just as serious cheating as stopping a goal.

When does the double jeopardy rule apply?

HIBEES 4 LIFE
19-06-2018, 02:58 PM
I know. I just feel that deliberately scoring with your hand is just as serious cheating as stopping a goal.

When does the double jeopardy rule apply?

I agree completely, he should have been sent of from a footballing fans perspective. Think that handball simply comes under a different section of the law, where deliberate handball only must result in a free kick/penalty. And normally a booking, although the law does not state a punishment so the ref would be in his right to show any colour of card.

The new law applies to all obvious goal scoring opportunities, in the box, I think it's easier to implement when its handball preventing a goal as normally the ball is pretty much on the line (unlike Colombia's today may I add).

Also the new law only applies if the offending player makes a genuine attempt to play the ball (with a legal part of the body). So assuming the player tries to slide in and play the ball with his foot, misjudges it and then handles it on the way in. Its a Pen and yellow card. Or a player is running through on goal and the offender fouls but tries to play the ball then a pen and yellow card.

Its also only applicable inside the box as the "triple punishment" refers to Penalty, Red card and suspension.

Hibbyradge
19-06-2018, 03:03 PM
I agree completely, he should have been sent of from a footballing fans perspective. Think that handball simply comes under a different section of the law, where deliberate handball only must result in a free kick/penalty. And normally a booking, although the law does not state a punishment so the ref would be in his right to show any colour of card.

The new law applies to all obvious goal scoring opportunities, in the box, I think it's easier to implement when its handball preventing a goal as normally the ball is pretty much on the line (unlike Colombia's today may I add).

Also the new law only applies if the offending player makes a genuine attempt to play the ball (with a legal part of the body). So assuming the player tries to slide in and play the ball with his foot, misjudges it and then handles it on the way in. Its a Pen and yellow card. Or a player is running through on goal and the offender fouls but tries to play the ball then a pen and yellow card.

Its also only applicable inside the box as the "triple punishment" refers to Penalty, Red card and suspension.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

I probably knew all that but I'm easily confused.

HIBEES 4 LIFE
19-06-2018, 03:05 PM
Thanks. :thumbsup:

I probably knew all that but I'm easily confused.

Just like the offside rule, the more they change it the more it confuses everyone. If I didn't still play I'd not have a clue! :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
19-06-2018, 05:53 PM
Just watching the news down here, and there is a foul by John Stones who pushes his player before Kane is brought down by the centre half.

They were suggesting this is why no penalty was given by the VAR.

Hibbyradge
19-06-2018, 05:55 PM
Just watching the news down here, and there is a foul by John Stones who pushes his player before Kane is brought down by the centre half.

They were suggesting this is why no penalty was given by the VAR.

Maybe, but there were 2 incidents.

blackpoolhibs
19-06-2018, 05:58 PM
Maybe, but there were 2 incidents.


Aye they only mentioned the one where Kane was bundled over.

Hibbyradge
19-06-2018, 06:00 PM
Aye they only mentioned the one where Kane was bundled over.

It's a nonsense if they don't stop the grappling.

Kane was pulled over backwards and then flattened from behind and nowt given.

It's cheating just the same as when folk dive.

Gordy M
19-06-2018, 06:03 PM
Not for me.....a couple of goals have been scored in the WC and the commentators have said oh wait checking VAR for a possible foul/offside.....totally ruined the moment.

blackpoolhibs
19-06-2018, 06:03 PM
It's a nonsense if they don't stop the grappling.

Kane was pulled over backwards and then flattened from behind and nowt given.

It's cheating just the same as when folk dive.

I agree, but if the ref has not seen it then i'd assume its then up to the VAR, and if they judge the first foul was by Stone, then there is no need to stop the game? :confused:

Hibbyradge
19-06-2018, 06:32 PM
I agree, but if the ref has not seen it then i'd assume its then up to the VAR, and if they judge the first foul was by Stone, then there is no need to stop the game? :confused:

I understand that, but why was the other one not given?

blackpoolhibs
19-06-2018, 06:37 PM
I understand that, but why was the other one not given?


I dont know, they never showed that one, just the one where Kane was bundled over. Perhaps something similar went on with that one too?

With the holding, defenders try and stop their player, forwards are grappling too, maybe they think its 6 of one and half dozen of the other, i really dont know.

All i have seen today is one reason why the one where he was bundled over may not have been given, as there was a clear foul by Stone before the one on Kane?

snooky
21-06-2018, 08:52 PM
Do you think 'certain' clubs in the SPL will be in favour of VAR if it helps eliminates cheating and controversial decisions?

Jim44
21-06-2018, 09:17 PM
I was indifferent to it till tonight but the farcical omissions in tonight’s game have turned me against it. On paper it sounds fine but the inconsistency of the guys running it makes it hit or miss.

hibbysam
22-06-2018, 06:18 AM
I understand that, but why was the other one not given?

The second one Kane grabs the defenders arm and pulls it over his own shoulder before collapsing to make it look like he was fouled. It’s acrhktk a great spot by the ref, fairly clever from Kane as he made the ref aware of the pulling etc before doing it.

Stevie Reid
22-06-2018, 08:41 AM
I've obviously made clear that I'm not a fan, but last night was ridiculous. Argentina were awful and Croatia thoroughly deserved their win, but the first goal scorer should have been off - that tackle was an absolute shocker. Not sending him off was a clear and obvious mistake.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2018, 10:16 AM
Are people really arguing that because it only helps to get some of the difficult decisions right, not all of them, it shouldn't be used at all?

The system, and the way it's used, is in its infancy. It will be tweaked and it will improve.

Some decisions will still be controversial because a human being is interpreting the images, but if it helps get more decisions right, then I'm all for it.

In any case, we might as well get used to it. It's here to stay.

Stevie Reid
22-06-2018, 10:26 AM
Are people really arguing that because it only helps to get some of the difficult decisions right, not all of them, it shouldn't be used at all?

The system, and the way it's used, is in its infancy. It will be tweaked and it will improve.

Some decisions will still be controversial because a human being is interpreting the images, but if it helps get more decisions right, then I'm all for it.

In any case, we might as well get used to it. It's here to stay.

On the flipside, why is your argument a justification for using it at all? If using it leads to getting some things right, and some things wrong, how are we any better off than before? The person ultimately making the decisions remains as fallible as ever, as has been shown in this WC.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2018, 10:29 AM
On the flipside, why is your argument a justification for using it at all? If using it leads to getting some things right, and some things wrong, how are we any better off than before? The person ultimately making the decisions remains as fallible as ever, as has been shown in this WC.

It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

Stevie Reid
22-06-2018, 10:31 AM
It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

Too early to say that.

I didn't claim it had reversed a correct decision.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2018, 10:36 AM
Too early to say that.

I didn't claim it had reversed a correct decision.

Ok. I wasn't sure.

In that case it's worth having.

The ref makes 2 wrong decisions. VAR helps correct one. That's 50% better than without the technology.

Another effect will be that it will eventually change players' behaviour. For example, if they know they'll get caught, the holding and grappling in the box will reduce.

That depends on how it's used, right enough.

danhibees1875
22-06-2018, 10:39 AM
It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

I guess it depends on what you call a "decision".

For me, and it is debatable, the decision to not award a penalty to France v Australia was correctly made until VAR was used and then the incorrect decision to award the penalty was taken.

Stevie Reid
22-06-2018, 10:52 AM
Ok. I wasn't sure.

In that case it's worth having.

The ref makes 2 wrong decisions. VAR helps correct one. That's 50% better than without the technology.

Another effect will be that it will eventually change players' behaviour. For example, if they know they'll get caught, the holding and grappling in the box will reduce.

That depends on how it's used, right enough.

That is certainly a potential benefit I would agree with. But then it won't ever be implemented at all levels of football, so it wouldn't be a universal benefit. Though I appreciate that as an advocate of goal line technology, that isn't going to be rolled out in Scottish League Two any time soon either :greengrin

With regards to your point about two wrong decisions/one right, it isn't always that straight forward. Last night a foul was committed right in front of the referee that was a red card tackle for more than one reason - yet the referee not only booked him, but stood by his decision after apparently looking at it again. That guy then goes on to score the crucial first goal.

Croatia should've been down to ten men at 0-0 with most of the game still to play. Argentina (who I have little sympathy for, given how they played) might end up out now, and the decision has played a big part in it. The referee obviously has to have the final say, but it doesn't help when he arrogantly refuses to change his original decision in circumstances like last night. I find it hard to get excited about the odd contentious decision being ironed out, when things like that still happen.

I've seen a few pens given also - the South Korea one certainly overturned a bad error, but the first France one and the Australia one the other day were still contentious in my opinion.

I'm not saying that there are no benefits to it at all, there are - I just don't see it significantly moving the game forward. The fallibility of the referee remains the same as it did before. I'd much rather any money to be spent on it went towards making goal line technology an industry standard.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2018, 11:02 AM
Let's revisit this discussion when the WC is over.

It's been used like this for only one week so I agree that it's too early to make a definite decision about it.

As it stands, I think it helps the game and it will evolve into a very useful tool.

However, I retain the right to change my mind should things with it go tits up. :greengrin

Stevie Reid
22-06-2018, 11:05 AM
Let's revisit this discussion when the WC is over.

It's been used like this for only one week so I agree that it's too early to make a definite decision about it.

As it stands, I think it helps the game and it will evolve into a very useful tool.

However, I retain the right to change my mind should things with it go tits up. :greengrin

:greengrin

Ralphy C
22-06-2018, 11:10 AM
It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

It has in my opinion, the ref correctly denied Australia a pen yesterday until VAR got involved and he changed his mind.

JeMeSouviens
22-06-2018, 11:10 AM
I guess it depends on what you call a "decision".

For me, and it is debatable, the decision to not award a penalty to France v Australia was correctly made until VAR was used and then the incorrect decision to award the penalty was taken.

That's just an argument that you don't like the way arms in "unnatural positions" is refereed. If the ref had seen it in real time he'd have given the pen. It was pointed out to him he'd missed it so he gave it on review.

The same applies to the Harry Kane thing. Refs routinely ignore grappling in the box even though they plainly see it. They give the players a talking to and then allow it to continue. VAR yes/no is a completely separate discussion to that.

Hibbyradge
22-06-2018, 11:13 AM
That's just an argument that you don't like the way arms in "unnatural positions" is refereed. If the ref had seen it in real time he'd have given the pen. It was pointed out to him he'd missed it so he gave it on review.



That's a different incident.

He's referring to the trip/ dive.

JeMeSouviens
22-06-2018, 11:15 AM
That's a different incident.

He's referring to the trip/ dive.

Oops, saw Australia pen and mentally connected to the wrong one.

matty_f
22-06-2018, 12:32 PM
I think the VAR is good, more decisions are correct and that's surely a good thing?

Man Down Under
22-06-2018, 12:56 PM
Ads a bit of excitement watching back VAR, since it usually shows the correct answer and can end debate/arguments.
Extra time is always 4 or 5 mins too which makes the end of the game a bit more exciting.

Sent from my SM-J320ZN using Tapatalk

Stevie Reid
15-07-2018, 05:13 PM
I know that some people like it but now that the tournament is over I can safely say I dislike it now even more than I did before the tournament.

I think I've seen one genuine injustice overturned from it (penalty in a South Korea in the group stages IIRC), but I've also seen several shocking decisions made as a result of it. A bad decision at any point can lead to a goal, as we learned from the first one today. I think the penalty decision is a shocker.

I like rule changes that improve football and advance the game - and can be applied at any level of the game. The passback rule has been the best example in my lifetime of a positive one. In my opinion, VAR has done nothing to advance the game, and it will never be applied at all levels of football.

It's been a great WC, but it would have still been without VAR - even better IMO. Take the money used on it and make goal line technology an industry standard - something that has improved the game a great deal.

BoomtownHibees
15-07-2018, 06:01 PM
I know that some people like it but now that the tournament is over I can safely say I dislike it now even more than I did before the tournament.

I think I've seen one genuine injustice overturned from it (penalty in a South Korea in the group stages IIRC), but I've also seen several shocking decisions made as a result of it. A bad decision at any point can lead to a goal, as we learned from the first one today. I think the penalty decision is a shocker.

I like rule changes that improve football and advance the game - and can be applied at any level of the game. The passback rule has been the best example in my lifetime of a positive one. In my opinion, VAR has done nothing to advance the game, and it will never be applied at all levels of football.

It's been a great WC, but it would have still been without VAR - even better IMO. Take the money used on it and make goal line technology an industry standard - something that has improved the game a great deal.

For me, anything that is subjective shouldn’t have VAR. Like the penalty today, I thought it was the correct decision, others think it was wrong.

Bring it in for goal-line technology and offside then leave it at that

Stevie Reid
15-07-2018, 06:23 PM
For me, anything that is subjective shouldn’t have VAR. Like the penalty today, I thought it was the correct decision, others think it was wrong.

Bring it in for goal-line technology and offside then leave it at that

Yep, been my stance all along BH. Binary things are fine - but mistaken identity aside, everything VAR is used for is subjective.

worcesterhibby
15-07-2018, 06:39 PM
Once again VAR decision is wrong, this time in the final. I don’t like it, I wish they would just leave the game alone. Plus it will mean two different types of football match..those with VAR (rich leagues) and those without. Unless FIFA are willing to bankroll VAR in every professional league in the world, they shouldn’t be allowed to use it. Some of the “deliberate” handballs that have been given at this World Cup have been ridiculous.

Hibbyradge
15-07-2018, 06:46 PM
Once again VAR decision is wrong, this time in the final. I don’t like it, I wish they would just leave the game alone. Plus it will mean two different types of football match..those with VAR (rich leagues) and those without. Unless FIFA are willing to bankroll VAR in every professional league in the world, they shouldn’t be allowed to use it. Some of the “deliberate” handballs that have been given at this World Cup have been ridiculous.

Lots of games don't have goal line technology.

Hibbyradge
15-07-2018, 06:49 PM
For me, anything that is subjective shouldn’t have VAR. Like the penalty today, I thought it was the correct decision, others think it was wrong.

Bring it in for goal-line technology and offside then leave it at that

What about Maradona's or Thirty Henry's hand balls?

Blatant cheating which CAR would have caught.

It's in its infancy but I think VAR is a positive innovation and it's here to stay, imo.

Stevie Reid
15-07-2018, 06:52 PM
What about Maradona's or Thirty Henry's hand balls?

Blatant cheating which CAR would have caught.

It's in its infancy but I think VAR is a positive innovation and it's here to stay, imo.

Griezman blatantly cheated to win the free kick for the first goal today.

Hibbyradge
15-07-2018, 06:53 PM
Griezman blatantly cheated to win the free kick for the first goal today.

Yeah. VAR should have been used, but it wasn't.

SeanWilson
15-07-2018, 06:54 PM
Griezman blatantly cheated to win the free kick for the first goal today.

100% - shocker.

BoomtownHibees
15-07-2018, 07:09 PM
Yeah. VAR should have been used, but it wasn't.

So are you saying we should use VAR for every foul that occurs?

Not for me

worcesterhibby
15-07-2018, 07:35 PM
Lots of games don't have goal line technology.

and I firmly believe that FIFA should pay for it in all professional leagues. Football should be the same game no matter what league you are in.

Ryan69
15-07-2018, 08:00 PM
I know that some people like it but now that the tournament is over I can safely say I dislike it now even more than I did before the tournament.

I think I've seen one genuine injustice overturned from it (penalty in a South Korea in the group stages IIRC), but I've also seen several shocking decisions made as a result of it. A bad decision at any point can lead to a goal, as we learned from the first one today. I think the penalty decision is a shocker.

I like rule changes that improve football and advance the game - and can be applied at any level of the game. The passback rule has been the best example in my lifetime of a positive one. In my opinion, VAR has done nothing to advance the game, and it will never be applied at all levels of football.

It's been a great WC, but it would have still been without VAR - even better IMO. Take the money used on it and make goal line technology an industry standard - something that has improved the game a great deal.

Clearly hits his hand..so penalty.

Fair enough I did have over 1.5 french first half goals...so may be bias.

But that was a penalty...end of story.

(If VAR was in Scotland...we would of been in a higher position in the league also last season.)

Think about that.

Ryan69
15-07-2018, 08:05 PM
What about Maradona's or Thirty Henry's hand balls?

Blatant cheating which CAR would have caught.

It's in its infancy but I think VAR is a positive innovation and it's here to stay, imo.

Or the goal England scored to finalise the 66 world cup...could of been a different result :)

Stevie Reid
15-07-2018, 08:06 PM
Clearly hits his hand..so penalty.

Fair enough I did have over 1.5 french first half goals...so may be bias.

But that was a penalty...end of story.

(If VAR was in Scotland...we would of been in a higher position in the league also last season.)

Think about that.

The fact that it hit his hand doesn't automatically mean it's a penalty.

I do think about it. And I don't want it.

Goal line technology would've helped us much more over the years.

snooky
15-07-2018, 08:23 PM
Clearly hits his hand..so penalty.

Fair enough I did have over 1.5 french first half goals...so may be bias.

But that was a penalty...end of story.

(If VAR was in Scotland...we would of been in a higher position in the league also last season.)

Think about that.

And we wouldn't have been relegated IIRC.

SeanWilson
15-07-2018, 08:29 PM
Clearly hits his hand..so penalty.

Fair enough I did have over 1.5 french first half goals...so may be bias.

But that was a penalty...end of story.

(If VAR was in Scotland...we would of been in a higher position in the league also last season.)

Think about that.

Not sure of the official rules so I'm not sure but IMO, never a pen. Hand is in natural position, ball moves a split second before striking it and in no way shape or form intentional... Would never be a free kick in open play, outside the box and should never have been a pen.

eastterrace
15-07-2018, 08:47 PM
Not sure of the official rules so I'm not sure but IMO, never a pen. Hand is in natural position, ball moves a split second before striking it and in no way shape or form intentional... Would never be a free kick in open play, outside the box and should never have been a pen.

I thought he moved his hand down to the ball, but it’s a matter of opinion so VAR not really much good in this type of circumstance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Eyrie
15-07-2018, 10:16 PM
I didn't think it was a penalty.

More importantly, neither did the referee at the time so the decision should not have been overturned as there was no clear and obvious evidence that Perisic attempted to block the ball using his hand.

MWHIBBIES
15-07-2018, 10:31 PM
What has VAR got to do with the penalty decision? If it was wrong (it wasn't, clear handball in the box) the it was the referee, not VAR, to blame since he reviewed it. Like blaming CCTV for a burglary...

VAR is amazing, so many correct decisions made with it and it's only the first time we're seeing it. Can't wait till it gets better and better and games are won and lost on skill, not ****ty refereeing decisions.

MWHIBBIES
15-07-2018, 10:34 PM
Not sure of the official rules so I'm not sure but IMO, never a pen. Hand is in natural position, ball moves a split second before striking it and in no way shape or form intentional... Would never be a free kick in open play, outside the box and should never have been a pen.The ball didn't change direction just before, Umtiti missed it and free kicks are given every week in every league for that, we've both seen it plenty of times just at Easter Road I'd imagine.

MWHIBBIES
15-07-2018, 10:36 PM
Once again VAR decision is wrong, this time in the final. I don’t like it, I wish they would just leave the game alone. Plus it will mean two different types of football match..those with VAR (rich leagues) and those without. Unless FIFA are willing to bankroll VAR in every professional league in the world, they shouldn’t be allowed to use it. Some of the “deliberate” handballs that have been given at this World Cup have been ridiculous.
VAR doesnt make decisions, it shows a video action replay. Officials make decisions. If they are wrong it is them to blame.

Hibee Mac
15-07-2018, 11:06 PM
VAR doesnt make decisions, it shows a video action replay. Officials make decisions. If they are wrong it is them to blame.

You are correct, however, VAR puts officials in a position where they will instantly feel as though they must have made an error simply by the fact that a review is underway, today was a perfect example.

I get what you are saying that the officials make the decisions but if we are putting them in situations that can negatively influence their ability to make an impartial decision then IMO it is a fair opinion to see VAR as a negative influence on the game.

hibbysam
16-07-2018, 06:53 AM
The ball didn't change direction just before, Umtiti missed it and free kicks are given every week in every league for that, we've both seen it plenty of times just at Easter Road I'd imagine.

It came off the top of the guys head. But if you feel that’s a deliberate handball then fair play. The guy should maybe take up goalkeeping as that’s a world class reflex stop.

Speedy
16-07-2018, 07:30 AM
What has VAR got to do with the penalty decision? If it was wrong (it wasn't, clear handball in the box) the it was the referee, not VAR, to blame since he reviewed it. Like blaming CCTV for a burglary...

VAR is amazing, so many correct decisions made with it and it's only the first time we're seeing it. Can't wait till it gets better and better and games are won and lost on skill, not ****ty refereeing decisions.

Ball hit a defender less than a yard away and Perisic was in the middle of a jump.

No chance that can be deemed deliberate.

SirDavidsNapper
16-07-2018, 07:51 AM
VAR is good but pointless when a referee reviews it and still makes the wrong decision.

MWHIBBIES
16-07-2018, 10:01 AM
Ball hit a defender less than a yard away and Perisic was in the middle of a jump.

No chance that can be deemed deliberate.


It came off the top of the guys head. But if you feel that’s a deliberate handball then fair play. The guy should maybe take up goalkeeping as that’s a world class reflex stop.

Obviously it wasn't a deliberate hand ball, who deliberately hand balls it in the box in a world cup final at 1-1 with an hour to play? It was still a penalty. That corner was bouncing in the 6 yard box before it was cut out by his hand, can't allow that to go unpunished.

Hibbyradge
16-07-2018, 10:30 AM
So are you saying we should use VAR for every foul that occurs?

Not for me

Fair point. I agree.

VAR is good for offsides, penalties etc but not every decision.

Hibbyradge
16-07-2018, 10:32 AM
Or the goal England scored to finalise the 66 world cup...could of been a different result :)

That would have been picked up by goal line technology, not VAR.

Caversham Green
16-07-2018, 10:34 AM
Yeah. VAR should have been used, but it wasn't.

Under the rules VAR couldn't be used in that situation - it could only be used for penalties, goals, red cards and mistaken identity. This is where I think an appeal could have been used if Croatia felt they had a case for the decision to be reviewed.


I didn't think it was a penalty.

More importantly, neither did the referee at the time so the decision should not have been overturned as there was no clear and obvious evidence that Perisic attempted to block the ball using his hand.

The problem here is that it looks like the ref didn't actually see the ball hit the defender's hand. If that is the case then it's not wrong for VAR to suggest that he has a look at the replay, but....


You are correct, however, VAR puts officials in a position where they will instantly feel as though they must have made an error simply by the fact that a review is underway, today was a perfect example.

I get what you are saying that the officials make the decisions but if we are putting them in situations that can negatively influence their ability to make an impartial decision then IMO it is a fair opinion to see VAR as a negative influence on the game.

This is a problem - the ref can be influenced by what the VAR guys say and also when seen in slow motion a movement can look more deliberate than in real time (I don't know if the ref got a slow-mo view). This particular decision was very marginal and I think the ref should have given Croatia the benefit of the doubt. To be fair to him, he did look long and hard at it before he made the decision but I don't think I would have given it in his position.

Greentinted
16-07-2018, 12:13 PM
I’ve heard it mentioned that perhaps it would be better to do away with the concept of ‘intent’ when interpreting whether or not a handball is deemed ‘deliberate’ and a way round this would be to make all handballs punishable by a penalty (when in the box).
While I’m always skeptical as to having a match official (or anyone) applying their mind-reading skills (who can really say what the intentions of another person are?), I fear that attacking players would then deliberately attempt to play the ball to the defenders hand/arm.

Keith_M
16-07-2018, 02:08 PM
I’ve heard it mentioned that perhaps it would be better to do away with the concept of ‘intent’ when interpreting whether or not a handball is deemed ‘deliberate’ and a way round this would be to make all handballs punishable by a penalty (when in the box).
While I’m always skeptical as to having a match official (or anyone) applying their mind-reading skills (who can really say what the intentions of another person are?), I fear that attacking players would then deliberately attempt to play the ball to the defenders hand/arm.


The problem I can see with that is a lot of players deliberately kicking the ball toward a defenders arms, knowing full well that, if they get lucky, they'll get a penalty.

CropleyWasGod
16-07-2018, 02:10 PM
The problem I can see with that is a lot of players deliberately kicking the ball toward a defenders arms, knowing full well that, if they get lucky, they'll get a penalty.

Might solve the perceived problem of Lewie always hitting the first man. :greengrin

Greentinted
16-07-2018, 02:33 PM
The problem I can see with that is a lot of players deliberately kicking the ball toward a defenders arms, knowing full well that, if they get lucky, they'll get a penalty.

Exactly, and all the technology in the world would be hard pushed to find away to legislate for/against this.

HoboHarry
16-07-2018, 02:34 PM
Might solve the perceived problem of Lewie always hitting the first man. :greengrin
He could end up with a world record in assists in one season....... :greengrin

Deansy
16-07-2018, 02:42 PM
I do like VAR but for me the one flaw it has is, if this World Cup is an example, it's going to make 'Accidental hand-ball' obsolete !

Callum_62
16-07-2018, 02:46 PM
the penalty decision is a joke - framce player gets a touch and hits Perisic whos about 2 yards away, on the way down from a jump - shocking decision by the ref (not VAR)

Also a shocking decision for the first.....and I was surprised that VAR didn't look at Pogba being offside from teh Griezmann free kick?

I shouted it straight away when I seen the first replay - was in a packed boozer though - so was he offside?

Hibbyradge
16-07-2018, 02:47 PM
the penalty decision is a joke - framce player gets a touch and hits Perisic whos about 2 yards away, on the way down from a jump - shocking decision by the ref (not VAR)

Also a shocking decision for the first.....and I was surprised that VAR didn't look at Pogba being offside from teh Griezmann free kick?

I shouted it straight away when I seen the first replay - was in a packed boozer though - so was he offside?

Did he touch the ball?

Callum_62
16-07-2018, 02:51 PM
Did he touch the ball?

no -but he competed for it right behind Mandzukik

Peevemor
16-07-2018, 02:59 PM
For what it's worth, I watched the match with about 20 (French) mates. About 75% of them didn't think it was a penalty.

Hibbyradge
16-07-2018, 03:01 PM
no -but he competed for it right behind Mandzukik

A player is only offside if he becomes "active".

I don't think you can become active until the ball arrives and Mandzukik's touch played him on anyway.

I've just looked at the goal again and I'm not sure he was behind the defender. More in line with him, unless he can score with his arse. :greengrin


https://youtu.be/sp5T6m1bc8Q

Callum_62
16-07-2018, 03:04 PM
S player is only offside if he becomes "active".

I don't think you can become active until the ball arrives and Mandzukik's touch played him on anyway.

I've just looked at the goal again and I'm not sure he was behind the defender. More in line with him, unless he can score with his arse. :greengrin

https://youtu.be/sp5T6m1bc8Q

if any part of your body that you can score with (including his erchie :-D) is behind the last defender, hes off

Pogba made an attempt to play the ball, which makes him active- so hes offside (if indeed he was initially) - I expected it to be looked at closer, but seemed to have been brushed over

worcesterhibby
16-07-2018, 03:06 PM
the penalty decision is a joke - framce player gets a touch and hits Perisic whos about 2 yards away, on the way down from a jump - shocking decision by the ref (not VAR)

Also a shocking decision for the first.....and I was surprised that VAR didn't look at Pogba being offside from teh Griezmann free kick?

I shouted it straight away when I seen the first replay - was in a packed boozer though - so was he offside?

More in line than anything, certainly not "clear mistake".

Callum_62
16-07-2018, 03:07 PM
More in line than anything, certainly not "clear mistake".

doesnt have to be a clear mistake for offside - either hes off or he isnt

I expected to see a camera angle side on with the (hopefully straight) VAR lines :greengrin

cabbageandribs1875
16-07-2018, 03:33 PM
the penalty decision is a joke - framce player gets a touch and hits Perisic whos about 2 yards away, on the way down from a jump - shocking decision by the ref (not VAR)

Also a shocking decision for the first.....and I was surprised that VAR didn't look at Pogba being offside from teh Griezmann free kick?

I shouted it straight away when I seen the first replay - was in a packed boozer though - so was he offside?


exactly, what the **** is the defender supposed to do, the french player ducked as well, and don't get me started on the griezman diving, horrible little cheat, sometimes the players forget there's 40 cameras watching absolutely everything, shameful behaviour