Save Leith Walk

[marinello59]

Please take a wee bit of time to find out about this campaign. And if you feel strongly enough about it send an email to the appropriate people.

https://m.facebook.com/saveleithwalk/

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Please take a wee bit of time to find out about this campaign. And if you feel strongly enough about it send an email to the appropriate people.

https://m.facebook.com/saveleithwalk/

I'm not on Facebook- anyone able to paste some of the info?

[Hiber-nation]

Drum Property group have submitted an application notice for a huge mixed development at Steads place, Leith Walk.

Their current plan includes the demolition of the red sandstone buildings at 106 – 154 Leith Walk where a number of lively and well loved local businesses currently operate such as Leith Depot, Leiths only dedicated music venue.

So far the following planning details have emerged:

500 Student beds (1, 2, 3 bedrooms flats).

A private hotel of 55 bedrooms.

Only 54 ‘affordable’ homes.

6-7 storey high buildings.

It was abundantly clear from the Leith Central Community Council meeting on the 19/03/18 (attended by around 50 Leithers) that the people of Leith will not tolerate:

More expensive post-graduate student housing.

More hotels.

More elite multi million pound corporate developments.

More ‘cheap’ and ‘hideous’ buildings on Leith Walk.

http://saveleithwalk.org/

[Scouse Hibee]

Surely it can only improve it, bring more footfall which is good for local businesses. Coupled with the tram Leith Walk is only going to get better.

[RyeSloan]

Drum Property group have submitted an application notice for a huge mixed development at Steads place, Leith Walk.

Their current plan includes the demolition of the red sandstone buildings at 106 – 154 Leith Walk where a number of lively and well loved local businesses currently operate such as Leith Depot, Leiths only dedicated music venue.

So far the following planning details have emerged:

500 Student beds (1, 2, 3 bedrooms flats).

A private hotel of 55 bedrooms.

Only 54 ‘affordable’ homes.

6-7 storey high buildings.

It was abundantly clear from the Leith Central Community Council meeting on the 19/03/18 (attended by around 50 Leithers) that the people of Leith will not tolerate:

More expensive post-graduate student housing.

More hotels.

More elite multi million pound corporate developments.

More ‘cheap’ and ‘hideous’ buildings on Leith Walk.

http://saveleithwalk.org/

What are they proposing instead?

And while I get the fact that maybe more student beds might not be wanted and losing the live music venue would not be ideal I’m defo not getting the love in for the red sandstone row of shops.

[Killiehibbie]

Surely it can only improve it, bring more footfall which is good for local businesses. Coupled with the tram Leith Walk is only going to get better.
Will there be any local shops left?

[Pretty Boy]

What are they proposing instead?

And while I get the fact that maybe more student beds might not be wanted and losing the live music venue would not be ideal I’m defo not getting the love in for the red sandstone row of shops.

I'm not sure they have an alternative proposal as such.

It's an overdue reaction from a local community though. Yet another site turned over for student and tourist use when we have a desperate shortage of social and affordable housing in the city. The additional student accomodation being built all over the city is also putting a huge strain on private lets at a later date and driving up the price of those. That's before we even get to the scourge of Air BnB.

[marinello59]

What are they proposing instead?

And while I get the fact that maybe more student beds might not be wanted and losing the live music venue would not be ideal I’m defo not getting the love in for the red sandstone row of shops.

There’s a shop window display opposite the row of shops which gives a bit more info on the history of the buildings.
I did see an alternative plan posted on Twitter proposing partial development of the site instead which would see the shops retained. I think that’s still being worked on though.

[Hiber-nation]

What are they proposing instead?

And while I get the fact that maybe more student beds might not be wanted and losing the live music venue would not be ideal I’m defo not getting the love in for the red sandstone row of shops.

I'm not 100% sure.....sorry, that was me copying and pasting, I should've made that clear :greengrin

[johnbc70]

Why so many student flats in Edinburgh these days? I work near Fountainbridge and there is a new complex opening soon and already a ton in that area. It seems any development these days is student flats, where did they all live before theses ones were built?

[Jack]

I'm not sure they have an alternative proposal as such.

It's an overdue reaction from a local community though. Yet another site turned over for student and tourist use when we have a desperate shortage of social and affordable housing in the city. The additional student accomodation being built all over the city is also putting a huge strain on private lets at a later date and driving up the price of those. That's before we even get to the scourge of Air BnB.

Absolutely.

Leith Walk already has substantial student accommodations and with buy to let and AirBnB increasing in the traditional tenement housing the transient population is affecting the character of the area.

Leith has a long history of accepting waifs and strays from Royalty to commoners from all corners of the globe but it needs a stable population if it's going to remain a decent place to live and work in.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Drum Property group have submitted an application notice for a huge mixed development at Steads place, Leith Walk.

Their current plan includes the demolition of the red sandstone buildings at 106 – 154 Leith Walk where a number of lively and well loved local businesses currently operate such as Leith Depot, Leiths only dedicated music venue.

So far the following planning details have emerged:

500 Student beds (1, 2, 3 bedrooms flats).

A private hotel of 55 bedrooms.

Only 54 ‘affordable’ homes.

6-7 storey high buildings.

It was abundantly clear from the Leith Central Community Council meeting on the 19/03/18 (attended by around 50 Leithers) that the people of Leith will not tolerate:

More expensive post-graduate student housing.

More hotels.

More elite multi million pound corporate developments.

More ‘cheap’ and ‘hideous’ buildings on Leith Walk.

http://saveleithwalk.org/

Thanks.

That sounds pretty major. Hard to comment on whether it will be good or bad without knowing more, but I have to admit I do think the march of endless student flats a bit weird.

These issues are difficult though - development and jobs are a good thing, and we have to be careful not to fetishise some imagined, romanticized view of 'working class culture', but equally not all redevelopments are good.

[danhibees1875]

Why so many student flats in Edinburgh these days? I work near Fountainbridge and there is a new complex opening soon and already a ton in that area. It seems any development these days is student flats, where did they all live before theses ones were built?

I'm not aware of any of the existing ones closing (maybe kincaids court on grass market?) so I would assume it's uni expansion and taking on more students.

Or are the new ones aimed for non Freshers who would have previously been privately renting around the city in their final 3 years?

It's a fair question, as there seems to have been a lot of new developments since I left uni (only 5 years ago).

[RyeSloan]

Absolutely.

Leith Walk already has substantial student accommodations and with buy to let and AirBnB increasing in the traditional tenement housing the transient population is affecting the character of the area.

Leith has a long history of accepting waifs and strays from Royalty to commoners from all corners of the globe but it needs a stable population if it's going to remain a decent place to live and work in.

Yet on the flip side there has been plenty of development in Leith in recent years adding many many flats and the idea of bespoke student accommodation is that the existing housing is no longer rented out to students as it was back in the day. In fact the ongoing development of the tram yards at shrubhill is adding nearly 400 houses / flats alone.

Stopping this one development won’t change any dynamic and am still unsure as to what Leith Walk they are trying to save. Certainly these red sandstone shop fronts have a bit of age but let’s be honest red sandstone is hardly a typical Edinburgh stone and are far from being any sort of architectural masterpiece.

BUT I do get the point that as ever there seems to have been no overall plan for its redevelopment nor that with over a decade of road works (still ongoing and probably more coming) that the street has been brutalised by many many councils so appreciate that the locals may well have finally got fed up. I’m just unclear as to what the larger objective of the campaign is and why after so many large scale developments having already been delivered or underway that they have chosen this particular one to make a stand about.

[Just Alf]

Not specifically aimed at this development but more at these student accommodation "blocks" in general..... Is thre not a possibility that out with term time these areas could end up like ghost towns? :dunno:

[danhibees1875]

Not specifically aimed at this development but more at these student accommodation "blocks" in general..... Is thre not a possibility that out with term time these areas could end up like ghost towns? :dunno:

August isn't renowned for being quiet in Edinburgh. :wink:

[Just Alf]

August isn't renowned for being quiet in Edinburgh. :wink:Ha Ha! Good point. Well made!



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[Killiehibbie]

Why so many student flats in Edinburgh these days? I work near Fountainbridge and there is a new complex opening soon and already a ton in that area. It seems any development these days is student flats, where did they all live before theses ones were built?

I was told part of the reason is the builders can cram more in with less parking required.

[Jack]

I was told part of the reason is the builders can cram more in with less parking required.

Lower building standards all round but don't ask me for details!

[Tomsk]

I'm not sure they have an alternative proposal as such.

It's an overdue reaction from a local community though. Yet another site turned over for student and tourist use when we have a desperate shortage of social and affordable housing in the city. The additional student accomodation being built all over the city is also putting a huge strain on private lets at a later date and driving up the price of those. That's before we even get to the scourge of Air BnB.

I'm not sure I understand this part. Wouldn't greater supply drive down the price of private rents? Am I missing something?

I must say I've never been greatly enamoured of that terrace of single-story red sandstone buildings at the foot of the walk. They always struck me as rather plain, and almost like they are unfinished. Having said when I see what they're building up at Shrub Place and elsewhere in the city I'm all for keeping them.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not sure I understand this part. Wouldn't greater supply drive down the price of private rents? Am I missing something?

I must say I've never been greatly enamoured of that terrace of single-story red sandstone buildings at the foot of the walk. They always struck me as rather plain, and almost like they are unfinished. Having said when I see what they're building up at Shrub Place and elsewhere in the city I'm all for keeping them.

Part of the Edinburgh universities admission policy is they guarantee accomodation to 1st years who come from outwith a certain geographic area. In years gone by this limited admissions to those they could house in their own halls of residence and a few other owned properties.

In recent years the unis have been block booking rooms in the new student developments and 'sub letting' them to 1st years thus allowing them to admit an increased number of applicants. The issue arises when 2nd, 3rd and 4th years are looking for accomodation the availability in these student blocks is reduced as many of the rooms are let directly to the universities. That in turn leaves many of said increased number of students looking for alternative accomodation which inevitably results in them looking to the private let market.

[Tomsk]

Part of the Edinburgh universities admission policy is they guarantee accomodation to 1st years who come from outwith a certain geographic area. In years gone by this limited admissions to those they could house in their own halls of residence and a few other owned properties.

In recent years the unis have been block booking rooms in the new student developments and 'sub letting' them to 1st years thus allowing them to admit an increased number of applicants. The issue arises when 2nd, 3rd and 4th years are looking for accomodation the availability in these student blocks is reduced as many of the rooms are let directly to the universities. That in turn leaves many of said increased number of students looking for alternative accomodation which inevitably results in them looking to the private let market.

I get you. Thanks.

[heretoday]

Scrap the tram. That would help save Leith Walk.

[Just Alf]

Build the tram. That would save Leith Walk.



:greengrin



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[Chic Murray]

Surely it can only improve it, bring more footfall which is good for local businesses. Coupled with the tram Leith Walk is only going to get better.

Really depends on your perspective. If you want affordable housing in tge area you grew up in, you might not agree. Peoole live in the area and the council should be protecting communities instead of zooming up to business.

The top end of the walk has already seen sweeping gentrification that makes people who have lived there for years feel like strangers.

As for the tram, it will decimate bus services. Make no mistake, if changes are being made they are not so people who have invested their lives in the city can benefit.

[beensaidbefore]

Really depends on your perspective. If you want affordable housing in tge area you grew up in, you might not agree. Peoole live in the area and the council should be protecting communities instead of zooming up to business.

The top end of the walk has already seen sweeping gentrification that makes people who have lived there for years feel like strangers.

As for the tram, it will decimate bus services. Make no mistake, if changes are being made they are not so people who have invested their lives in the city can benefit.

We hear a lot about Leith loosing it character etc and I am not so sure I understand what aspect people would like to hold onto. I got shot down on another thread for saying Leith was 'full of jakeys' etc, which on refection could have been worded better so I hve been sting awayfrom the subject, but as someone who spends a lot of time in Leith, I am confused by what changes 'Leithers' are afraid of. You mention feeling like a stranger by the 'improvements', can you explain what changes make you feel this way, and how do we improve the community without alienating some of the more longstanding members of the community?

For example Port of Leith just won an award for the regeneration of the Leith Fort. https://www.indigopr.com/newsroom/leith-fort-wins-saltire-rias-awards/

[Chic Murray]

We hear a lot about Leith loosing it character etc and I am not so sure I understand what aspect people would like to hold onto. I got shot down on another thread for saying Leith was 'full of jakeys' etc, which on refection could have been worded better so I hve been sting awayfrom the subject, but as someone who spends a lot of time in Leith, I am confused by what changes 'Leithers' are afraid of. You mention feeling like a stranger by the 'improvements', can you explain what changes make you feel this way, and how do we improve the community without alienating some of the more longstanding members of the community?

For example Port of Leith just won an award for the regeneration of the Leith Fort. https://www.indigopr.com/newsroom/leith-fort-wins-saltire-rias-awards/

I'm the classic hypocrite, as I have been into pubs I have never been into before, since gentrification.

I believe that the area should be improved for the people who live there, but that handing it over to private developers leaves them out. That alters the socio - economic mix, and makes the "indigenous" people in the minority. They lose control over an area that was once theirs.

I spoke about the changes at the top of the walk. The main thing is the change in pace, and the number of strangers who come in go from the area. It's the feeling of being squeezed out, on the back of tourism.

Again, I am the classic hypocrite, because I visit other cities. That said, I notice the same things are happening there as are happening here, neighbourhoods I used to visit to get a feel for the true city, are disappearing.

I accept that as we get older, we are less likely to embrace change, but the pace of change over the past 10 years for the entire city has been almost like an ethnic cleansing.

By the way, try getting one of the mid market rent flats that are supposed to be released, and you'll be lucky. Too much development is going towards student accommodation.

All of this lives the city poorer, as a large transient population has no real stake in its future, and is not looking for a return on a lifetime's investment. We become spectators at other people's parties.

[Jack]

Good points Chic, well said.

I'm thinking Leith could turn into what's become of Edinburghs Hogmany. It's ended up being nothing to do with Edinburgh or Hogmany! Thousands of tourists standing around after the Bells wondering what to do next, doing nothing and going back to their hotels at 00:15. The city centre becomes a wasteland just as the locals are heading oot tae first foot!

Too many tourists have taken over, I think I heard the other week local folk make up only 17% of those attending. It's ended up with no famous party and the organisers are desperate to re-engage with the locals.

We could end up with no 'Leithers' in Leith.

[beensaidbefore]

I'm the classic hypocrite, as I have been into pubs I have never been into before, since gentrification.

I believe that the area should be improved for the people who live there, but that handing it over to private developers leaves them out. That alters the socio - economic mix, and makes the "indigenous" people in the minority. They lose control over an area that was once theirs.

I spoke about the changes at the top of the walk. The main thing is the change in pace, and the number of strangers who come in go from the area. It's the feeling of being squeezed out, on the back of tourism.

Again, I am the classic hypocrite, because I visit other cities. That said, I notice the same things are happening there as are happening here, neighbourhoods I used to visit to get a feel for the true city, are disappearing.

I accept that as we get older, we are less likely to embrace change, but the pace of change over the past 10 years for the entire city has been almost like an ethnic cleansing.

By the way, try getting one of the mid market rent flats that are supposed to be released, and you'll be lucky. Too much development is going towards student accommodation.

All of this lives the city poorer, as a large transient population has no real stake in its future, and is not looking for a return on a lifetime's investment. We become spectators at other people's parties.


Thanks for your reply. Some good points.

If you would like to voice your concerns to someone you should check out the link below. Whether they will listen is another matter☺

https://leithcentralcc.co.uk

[Chic Murray]

Thanks for your reply. Some good points.

If you would like to voice your concerns to someone you should check out the link below. Whether they will listen is another matter☺

https://leithcentralcc.co.uk

I'm afraid it was all decided long ago. This hasn''t happened by accident in cities all around the world.

It may be inevitable, but at least they are putting up a protest in Leith, we may not be able to stop it, but at least we can say we fought.

Similair reactionary groups are growing up in Barcelona, Amsterdam and Palma Majorca, to name but three.

Councils are saying enough is enough, and we need this land or area for our own people.

[Chic Murray]

Good points Chic, well said.

I'm thinking Leith could turn into what's become of Edinburghs Hogmany. It's ended up being nothing to do with Edinburgh or Hogmany! Thousands of tourists standing around after the Bells wondering what to do next, doing nothing and going back to their hotels at 00:15. The city centre becomes a wasteland just as the locals are heading oot tae first foot!

Too many tourists have taken over, I think I heard the other week local folk make up only 17% of those attending. It's ended up with no famous party and the organisers are desperate to re-engage with the locals.

We could end up with no 'Leithers' in Leith.

It's been creeping for the last 10 years, but gathered a real head of steam in the last two.

No doubt land is getting traded on the basis it will be on the tram route. Hence the council's desperation to push the thing through at the expense of services.

Do you know that tax breaks on student accommodation mean that the council tax payer funds all of the infrastructure for them?

I just hope that campaign to save Leith Depot can force some changes and get some momentum towards getting the rest of our city back.

[RyeSloan]

It's been creeping for the last 10 years, but gathered a real head of steam in the last two.

No doubt land is getting traded on the basis it will be on the tram route. Hence the council's desperation to push the thing through at the expense of services.

Do you know that tax breaks on student accommodation mean that the council tax payer funds all of the infrastructure for them?

I just hope that campaign to save Leith Depot can force some changes and get some momentum towards getting the rest of our city back.

What tax breaks are those?

Are you saying that no developer contributions are paid when student housing is built?

[Chic Murray]

What tax breaks are those?

Are you saying that no developer contributions are paid when student housing is built?

By the sound of it, you know as much, if not more than me.

My understanding is that the students don't pay Council Tax, the owners don't pay business rates or corporation tax (not a local issue admittedly), and the tourists they let them out to in the holidays don't pay any visitor tax.

If this is right, the other council tax payers pay for the water, rubbish collection, emergency services etc.

Thus profits are made all round, which leave the city, whilst its services are depleted year on year, as the council tax payers support other people's lifestyle.

These transient residents can very quickly change the aspirations and values of an area, because of the change in the age mix and socio economic mix. By their very nature students and tourists are net users of services, they will have invested little in the city before arrival, and will invest nothing in it after they leave it.

Yet, they are allowed full access to services, and the right to take part in the democratic process through elections. Students and transient residents (people who typically sty in Edinburgh for five years) form a significant part of our population, they take part in decisions that effect us all, but which they will neither pay for long term, or deal with the consequences of any mistakes.

To them a tram is a good thing, why not? It does not matter to them that it will come at the cost of schools, or other forms of public transport. More festivals and entertainment? Of course, we're here to have a good time, who cares if it means people taking more circuitous routes to get to their work. Rehouse poor people elsewhere? Of course, they scare us, and we want cool types like ourselves in the bars, let the council tax payers deal with the social costs.

I don't want to get into a big debate about tax, or the rights and wrongs of this situation. The original question was about why I felt that change in the Leith area is a bad thing, and I stick by my view that it has happened to rapidly, and is almost a form of apartheid, with the original residents (whether people think their lives were desirable, or not) decanted to new townships out on the sea at Western Harbour.

[RyeSloan]

By the sound of it, you know as much, if not more than me.

My understanding is that the students don't pay Council Tax, the owners don't pay business rates or corporation tax (not a local issue admittedly), and the tourists they let them out to in the holidays don't pay any visitor tax.

If this is right, the other council tax payers pay for the water, rubbish collection, emergency services etc.

Thus profits are made all round, which leave the city, whilst its services are depleted year on year, as the council tax payers support other people's lifestyle.

These transient residents can very quickly change the aspirations and values of an area, because of the change in the age mix and socio economic mix. By their very nature students and tourists are net users of services, they will have invested little in the city before arrival, and will invest nothing in it after they leave it.

Yet, they are allowed full access to services, and the right to take part in the democratic process through elections. Students and transient residents (people who typically sty in Edinburgh for five years) form a significant part of our population, they take part in decisions that effect us all, but which they will neither pay for long term, or deal with the consequences of any mistakes.

To them a tram is a good thing, why not? It does not matter to them that it will come at the cost of schools, or other forms of public transport. More festivals and entertainment? Of course, we're here to have a good time, who cares if it means people taking more circuitous routes to get to their work. Rehouse poor people elsewhere? Of course, they scare us, and we want cool types like ourselves in the bars, let the council tax payers deal with the social costs.

I don't want to get into a big debate about tax, or the rights and wrongs of this situation. The original question was about why I felt that change in the Leith area is a bad thing, and I stick by my view that it has happened to rapidly, and is almost a form of apartheid, with the original residents (whether people think their lives were desirable, or not) decanted to new townships out on the sea at Western Harbour.

No it was a genuine question as I wasn’t quite sure what you were referring to and I wasn’t fully cognisant of the tax implications.

Anyhoo you prompted me to do a bit of research which goes as follows:

No students living in their own accommodation pay council tax whether they are in one of these propose built efforts, halls or privately rented. Whether you are with that or not it’s not unique to these student blocks.

Business rates...that one Was a bit of a surprise to me and on he face of it it makes no sense to me why these purpose built blocks are not treated as a business. I suspect it comes from the days where bespoke student accommodation was largely the domain of the Uni halls of residence but also now applied to commercially financed and built student accommodations.

Corp tax. I knew this already but it’s not entirely accurate as I believe Corp tax would be payable this unless the company is a REIT. REIT’s don’t pay corporation tax as the property income is taxed at the shareholder level. This is sensible otherwise there would be a double layer of taxation and is designed to roughly be equivalent to the same level of taxation as if the shareholder held the property directly.

Developers do, as far as I am aware, pay developer contributions.

So it’s a mixed bag really when it comes to ‘tax breaks’ and I’m not convinced (business rates apart) that any of them are strong arguments against purpose built student accommodation.

[Chic Murray]

No it was a genuine question as I wasn’t quite sure what you were referring to and I wasn’t fully cognisant of the tax implications.

Anyhoo you prompted me to do a bit of research which goes as follows:

No students living in their own accommodation pay council tax whether they are in one of these propose built efforts, halls or privately rented. Whether you are with that or not it’s not unique to these student blocks.

Business rates...that one Was a bit of a surprise to me and on he face of it it makes no sense to me why these purpose built blocks are not treated as a business. I suspect it comes from the days where bespoke student accommodation was largely the domain of the Uni halls of residence but also now applied to commercially financed and built student accommodations.

Corp tax. I knew this already but it’s not entirely accurate as I believe Corp tax would be payable this unless the company is a REIT. REIT’s don’t pay corporation tax as the property income is taxed at the shareholder level. This is sensible otherwise there would be a double layer of taxation and is designed to roughly be equivalent to the same level of taxation as if the shareholder held the property directly.

Developers do, as far as I am aware, pay developer contributions.

So it’s a mixed bag really when it comes to ‘tax breaks’ and I’m not convinced (business rates apart) that any of them are strong arguments against purpose built student accommodation.

Thanks.

The bottom line is a lot of people are coming in and out of the city, taking services for nothing, and the city council appears to be basing its policies on giving them the best deal possible.

Yes, students need accommodation, but does Edinburgh need so many students?

The answer lies in who is really running the city.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks.

The bottom line is a lot of people are coming in and out of the city, taking services for nothing, and the city council appears to be basing its policies on giving them the best deal possible.

Yes, students need accommodation, but does Edinburgh need so many students?

The answer lies in who is really running the city.

The Universities are important contributors to the City, both in employment and tax terms. The students themselves are a steady, almost guaranteed, source of spending in local businesses. Businesses who pay rates, and whose owners pay Council Taxes.

On the flip side, one of the arguments about local services is that, often, those who use the services pay little or nothing towards them. It's a generalisation, sure, but those who pay the most in tax are less likely to use Council-funded services like schools and buses.

[RyeSloan]

Thanks.

The bottom line is a lot of people are coming in and out of the city, taking services for nothing, and the city council appears to be basing its policies on giving them the best deal possible.

Yes, students need accommodation, but does Edinburgh need so many students?

The answer lies in who is really running the city.

Who is really running the City?

I’m also not sure about what you expect from a Capital City...cities by their nature attract people from outside and will always have some transient population.

Indeed considering this conversation is based around Leith Walk it’s slightly ironic to think that the port of Leith back in the day was probably ‘home’ to a vast number of transient people coming and going with the ships and the different industries around them. Some who will have stayed and given it its unique character in the first place.

Back then it was maybe more sailors and manual labourers etc now it’s more students and professionals but I would suggest that’s maybe more down to general societal and economic trends than any nefarious control or deliberately anti resident policies of Edinburgh Council.

[Mon Dieu4]

I live as close as you can get to this new development and although I'm not anti change I am anti over saturation of student accommodation, within a 5 minute walk we have already had 2 major student housing projects recently completed which has led to hundreds of students in a small area, They are doing it to make the best possible return for their shareholders and make a quick buck, previous people have spoken about the lack of parking and easier route to planning permission on buildings that are classed as non permanent residences, that's the nature of a business however it doesn't mean that it has to be agreed by locals or the council

I'm not even actually a huge fan of the red stoned existing buildings as much as some which have not been fully inhabited as long as I've been alive and if they were replacing the building with a building with architectural significance rather than another soulless generic jigsaw then I'd be all for tearing it down and replacing it

Out of all my friends growing up I am about the only one still left in Leith as everyone else has had to move away due to the lack of housing and the small number of so call affordable housing that have been built are still too expensive for them, these are people with good jobs and who earn a decent wage who are being priced out, I find it sad that people who grew up and lived their lives in an area can no longer afford to live there due to companies buying up land and playing the system to maximise revenue

I'll admit that as a life long Leither I feel the place has lost a bit of its soul due to this and all the so called gentrification that's been going on, can't wait for yet another artisan coffee shop to be opened, I am open minded and pragmatic about change but I think there is a fine balance to it and that the scale is firmly going in the opposite direction than I'd like just now

I also find it mental that a company with Fife Hyland involved in it would not have realised that this would be contentious to say the least, if anyone in business should be clued up on the local area then I would have thought that he would have understood that people from Leith although welcoming are proud of their heritage and don't want it to be diluted as much as it has been recently

[Chic Murray]

Who is really running the City?

I’m also not sure about what you expect from a Capital City...cities by their nature attract people from outside and will always have some transient population.

Indeed considering this conversation is based around Leith Walk it’s slightly ironic to think that the port of Leith back in the day was probably ‘home’ to a vast number of transient people coming and going with the ships and the different industries around them. Some who will have stayed and given it its unique character in the first place.

Back then it was maybe more sailors and manual labourers etc now it’s more students and professionals but I would suggest that’s maybe more down to general societal and economic trends than any nefarious control or deliberately anti resident policies of Edinburgh Council.

I've lived here all my life it wasn't always like this.

Transient people don't stay and give character, they move on after tinkering with the place to suit them and the transient they will sell to.

It's not immigration.

Edinburgh Council don't have the brains to be involved in nefarious schemes. Town council's never have.

A trans global elite are behind.

Anyway, I can speak with more authority about why I don't like the changes on the walk. It is blatant social engineering which leaves a sterile thoroughfare with none of the character it once had.

What some people call jackeys, other people call the poor, or ordinary people. Just because they don't fit some people's marketing proposition doesn't mean they can be discarded in the way they are.

That's all I want to say on this particular subject.

[RyeSloan]

I've lived here all my life it wasn't always like this.

Transient people don't stay and give character, they move on after tinkering with the place to suit them and the transient they will sell to.

It's not immigration.

Edinburgh Council don't have the brains to be involved in nefarious schemes. Town council's never have.

A trans global elite are behind.

Anyway, I can speak with more authority about why I don't like the changes on the walk. It is blatant social engineering which leaves a sterile thoroughfare with none of the character it once had.

What some people call jackeys, other people call the poor, or ordinary people. Just because they don't fit some people's marketing proposition doesn't mean they can be discarded in the way they are.

That's all I want to say on this particular subject.

Discarded? Trans Global Elite? Hmm [emoji848]

Anyway we agree on the ability of Councils at least [emoji1303]

As you say we’ll leave it there as while I get your gist I don’t think we are going to align on our thoughts on this one ☝️

[Chic Murray]

Discarded? Trans Global Elite? Hmm [emoji848]

Anyway we agree on the ability of Councils at least [emoji1303]

As you say we’ll leave it there as while I get your gist I don’t think we are going to align on our thoughts on this one ☝️

Thanks mate, it would be nice for others to carry on the discussion. I'm not saying I'm right, just how I feel. :aok: