Greatest male footballer of all time

[theonlywayisup]

Been a bit of a debate in the World Cup thread about the greatest player on the planet, so thought I would turn it into a poll.

So who do you think and why?

I got the list from this website:

https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-soccer-players-of-all-time

Selecting players that I thought should be in the top ten and that the majority of the posters on here would have seen in action.

I realise it's difficult comparing a Messi/Ronaldo to a Cruyff to a Beckenbauer, but that's part of the fun.

There are many other players who could be listed such as Bergkamp, Best, Gullit, Henry, van Basten, Pirlo, Iniesta, Muller, plus many others. It could become a very long poll, hence why I limited to 11 players that experts usually talk about being the greats as per the website above.

[Sammy7nil]

Where is Denis Bergkamp surely some mistake with his omission :confused:

[theonlywayisup]

Where is Denis Bergkamp surely some mistake with his omission :confused:

Based the list on the website link I attached - he was only 65th in that list.

I think the argument to include Bergkamp, would be the same for players like Gullit, Henry, van Basten, Pirlo, Iniesta, Muller, plus many others.

It could become a very long poll, hence why I limited to 11 players that experts usually talk about being the greats. Maybe the weak link in my list is Ronaldinho.

[howdenthehibby]

No George Best ?

[WestEndHibee]

David Gray

[frazeHFC]

Quite hard for me to say when the majority of them are before my time, but I'm not convinced we'll ever see anyone as good as Messi or Ronaldo again, certainly not two at the same time.

[My old man]

Nae Sir Kenny???

[hibsbollah]

Maradona.

[danhibees1875]

I think Messi and Ronaldo are better than Zidane, Ronaldinho, and Ronaldo (Brazil) were - but I can't really compare (could anyone really?) with the others.

As said above, I think the quality of the "current best player" will drop in the next few years as we fail to see anyone hit their heights.

[Billy Whizz]

Johan Cruyff was my hero growing up in the 70’s, still think he was the complete player, individually and as a team player
Just a complete footballer in my opinion

[Dunbar Hibee]

Beckenbauer included but no George Best, Pele, Eusebio...?

[660]

Diego

[Barman Stanton]

Maradona for me still. Could change after this World Cup though, Ronaldo and Messi are incredible players.

[theonlywayisup]

Beckenbauer included but no George Best, Pele, Eusebio...?

Maybe read the list again

[Sir David Gray]

Messi and Ronaldo are the only two in my adult lifetime (last 10-15 years) who would be thought of as the best ever.

I wasn't around for Maradona, Pele, Zico, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Cruyff etc so I can't comment on them although from what I've seen from old footage they were clearly world class players.

[Dunbar Hibee]

Maybe read the list again

Right you are! Too much vino last night 😂

[calumhibee1]

Messi by a bawhair from Ronaldo.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Ronaldinho

Played the game as it should be - with a big smile on his face

[MWHIBBIES]

Ronaldinho

Played the game as it should be - with a big smile on his faceI think even Ronaldinho would laugh at this suggestion. He was incredible for 4 years but nothing close to the peak or consistency of Messi and Ronaldo.

Ronaldinho scored 94 goals in 5 years for Barcelona, Messi scored 73 in one season and 91 in the year of 2012.

[theonlywayisup]

No George Best ?

Not a trick question, but what has George Best achieved to be on a list of the top 11 players of all time. Not denying he was a great player, one of the best from the British Isles, but the greatest male footballer of all time? To be included in the list of greatest players of all time, I think you've got to do it at the World Cup or Euros latter stages, which George Best never did. Yes, he wasn't playing in a great team, but there are enough examples of nations that became great teams on the back of just one superstar (e.g. Hagi at Romania)


Nae Sir Kenny???

Question as per George Best


Beckenbauer included but no George Best, Pele, Eusebio...?

Eusebio - good shout and I did consider including him and Puskas. Both from a generation well before my time.

[makaveli1875]

Didnt see half these guys play but from who i did Messi closely followed by Maradonna , hard to choose between those 2

[Juice-Terry]

Maradona.

[Pretty Boy]

I always think when people discuss the current best players and include only Messi and Ronaldo the one player who can feel most aggrieved to be missed out of the discussion is Iniesta.

He's done it domestically, done it in Europe, done it internationally. He should have won at least one Balon d'or. He's about as close to a complete midfielder as I've seen. He turns up in the big games; scored the winner and was man of the match in the WC final, man of the match in the Euros final. He has a habit of popping up with big goals at the right time. I think much like Paul Scholes a generation before him he suffers from not being as glamorous or marketable as his peers.

He's a joy to watch and is one of those players who seems to create time and space for himself and controls the pace of the game to suit himself and his team. He's a player who would sit with the greats of any generation and, whilst obviously different, is right up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

[Since90+2]

I always think when people discuss the current best players and include only Messi and Ronaldo the one player who can feel most aggrieved to be missed out of the discussion is Iniesta.

He's done it domestically, done it in Europe, done it internationally. He should have won at least one Balon d'or. He's about as close to a complete midfielder as I've seen. He turns up in the big games; scored the winner and was man of the match in the WC final, man of the match in the Euros final. He has a habit of popping up with big goals at the right time. I think much like Paul Scholes a generation before him he suffers from not being as glamorous or marketable as his peers.

He's a joy to watch and is one of those players who seems to create time and space for himself and controls the pace of the game to suit himself and his team. He's a player who would sit with the greats of any generation and, whilst obviously different, is right up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

Fantastic player but for me he isn't even the best midfielder Barcelona have had in recent years , that award IMO goes to Xavi.

[snooky]

No dispute with the top choices however, I'd definitely rate Cruyff a lot higher. Likewise Maradonna.

[CropleyWasGod]

No dispute with the top choices however, I'd definitely rate Cruyff a lot higher. Likewise Madonna.

And we're off.

Mother of Christ. You really think so?

[snooky]

And we're off.

Mother of Christ. You really think so?

Not sure if that was spellcheck or me just having a craft moment. :greengrin
Thought I'd manage to change it before the punsters latched on to it.
Anyway, to continue , 'Madonna' was a better player than a manger. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if that was spellcheck or me just having a craft moment :greengrin.
Thought I'd manage to change it before the punters cottoned on.
Anyway, to continue , 'Madonna' was a better player than a manger. :wink:

Immaculate, I'd say.

[ancient hibee]

These lists are always weighted in favour of attacking players(unfairly I think)because they do more spectacular things.

[spike220]

These lists are always weighted in favour of attacking players(unfairly I think)because they do more spectacular things.

Is that you Terry?

[Killiehibbie]

Imagine Pele in todays limited contact game. All records would be broken.

[A Hi-Bee]

Always very subjective, but in my humble Pele is the most complete football player I have seen in way over 50 years of watching the game. Best I ever seen playing in a game that I was at would have to be Maradona.
The 2 tax dodgers of todays game are both fantastic players and we are lucky to be able to be entertained by them.

[heretoday]

Eusebio.

[Beefster]

Maradona.

Went for him too. Pele and Di Stefano are before my time though. These kind of polls are generally skewed towards the recent though. There is no way that the vast majority of the greatest players ever have all played in the last 30 years.

[Mon Dieu4]

Me then after that Maradona and Garrincha :na na:

[howdenthehibby]

Not a trick question, but what has George Best achieved to be on a list of the top 11 players of all time. Not denying he was a great player, one of the best from the British Isles, but the greatest male footballer of all time? To be included in the list of greatest players of all time, I think you've got to do it at the World Cup or Euros latter stages, which George Best never did. Yes, he wasn't playing in a great team, but there are enough examples of nations that became great teams on the back of just one superstar (e.g. Hagi at Romania)



Question as per George Best



Eusebio - good shout and I did consider including him and Puskas. Both from a generation well before my time.

George Best won the European cup with Manchester United mate and was considered to be the best player in the World by none other than Pele himself.

[yonder1875]

Lionel Messi is the best footballer of all time.

I think people are being caught up in the moment with Ronaldo's free kick last night.

Barcelona don't have anywhere near as cohesive a side as Real Madrid these days yet Messi still drags Barca to league titles which for me is a bigger achievement than Ronaldo playing in a Champions League winning side.

[marinello59]

George Best for me. Pele though so too.

[Hibs1969]

Pele for me every time. His performances in the 1970 WC in Mexico as part of that legendary Brazilian team were outstanding and probably get better with time.

We are particularly lucky to have 2 of the greatest ever in Messi and Ronaldo playing right now. I would also say even that though he is a footballing genius, I just can’t warm to Ronaldo. He comes across as an arrogant bawbag. I doubt he’ll lose any sleep over that though and I’d definitely take him at ER if he ever gets bored at Real Madrid 😉

[superfurryhibby]

In the interests of gender equality why bother adding greatest male footballer of all time to the question? Surely greatest footballercovers all bases and if anyone wants to argue the case for a woman then fine? It’s all PC gone daft these days:wink:

FWIW, Ronaldo and Messi are both awesome footballing machines. Pleased to be able to say that I saw the wee fellae in action live.

[MrSmith]

Hey! Where’s Archie Gemmill?


https://youtu.be/eyJTBrbPIHQ

[IGRIGI]

"Greatest Male Footballer"

Lol.

[Since90+2]

Bit of a thread hijack but who do people consider the best Scottish player of all time? Dalglish? Law?

[A Hi-Bee]

Bit of a thread hijack but who do people consider the best Scottish player of all time? Dalglish? Law?

Yea it is a bit of a thread highjack imho, why no start a thread/poll of your own?
Best to do it by decades to save to many silly results.

[jacomo]

These lists are always weighted in favour of attacking players(unfairly I think)because they do more spectacular things.


True but scoring goals is the hardest and most important aspect of the game. It makes sense.

[nellio]

Between Christino Ronaldo and Maradonna for me.

Messi doesn't produce at international level like those 2.

If you consider Ronaldo is still that good at 33 he edges it for me over Madonna who wasn't having g the same impact and went a bit off the rails.

Honourable mentions to pele and zidane

[calumhibee1]

Between Christino Ronaldo and Maradonna for me.

Messi doesn't produce at international level like those 2.

If you consider Ronaldo is still that good at 33 he edges it for me over Madonna who wasn't having g the same impact and went a bit off the rails.

Honourable mentions to pele and zidane

Messi won player of the tournament at the last World Cup and dragged an average Argentina to the final. He’s also scored 64 international goals. How can you possibly claim he doesn’t produce at international level like those two? Ronaldo has won the euros with a team who didn’t even win a game in 90 minutes (I don’t think?) until the final, when he went off injured at 0-0. Fair enough he has the medal, but he hardly set the heather alight. Before last night aswell he’d scored 3 goals in 3 world cups, one in each. Again, hardly that exciting. Messi has also scored nearly double the goals Maradona did and has a games to goals ratio that is miles ahead of Maradonas over a larger amount of games aswel.

[nellio]

Controversial that messi won that award at the last world cup.

Ronaldo is miles ahead in international goals and led Portugal to the euros 2 years ago.

Messi decided to give up at the last copa America and retired!!

I'm not saying Messi doesn't play well at international level. I just feel Ronaldo performs internationally at a higher level.

[yonder1875]

Controversial that messi won that award at the last world cup.

Ronaldo is miles ahead in international goals and led Portugal to the euros 2 years ago.

Messi decided to give up at the last copa America and retired!!

I'm not saying Messi doesn't play well at international level. I just feel Ronaldo performs internationally at a higher level.

Ronaldo 'miles ahead' in international goals?

Ronaldo has scored 84 in 151 caps and Messi ha scored 64 in 124 caps. Not bad for someone who's never really played as a centre forward and probably created a barrel load from the number 10 position.

[One Day Soon]

Maradona. Some great players there but Maradona for me.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

He's not the best but, where's Matthaus? The guy was brilliant.

[hibs#1]

1.Messi
2.Cristiano
3.Ronaldo
4.Ronaldinho.

The Ronaldo and Ronaldinho's peak was no where near the other 2 but as far as talent they were right up there.

[nellio]

Ronaldo 'miles ahead' in international goals?

Ronaldo has scored 84 in 151 caps and Messi ha scored 64 in 124 caps. Not bad for someone who's never really played as a centre forward and probably created a barrel load from the number 10 position.

Didn't realise he didn't have as many caps so ill accept that no problem as similar ratio.

Let's see how Messi gets on this tournament but overall I still think Ronaldo is better. Done it in 2 different leagues too. Doubt Messi will leave Barca so hard to know how he would do outside Spain.

Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Gordy M]

Maradona for me. That season at Napoli and the World Cup in '86 were something else. What i would also say is that players from those days had nowhere near the protection that Messi and Ronaldo get. Back then a defender could quite literally mark you out the game. The Italian defender Gentille has the football boots he wore when he put Maradona out the 82 world cup in a glass case on his matlepiece!!:greengrin

[hibbysam]

Didn't realise he didn't have as many caps so ill accept that no problem as similar ratio.

Let's see how Messi gets on this tournament but overall I still think Ronaldo is better. Done it in 2 different leagues too. Doubt Messi will leave Barca so hard to know how he would do outside Spain.

Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.

Ronaldo is a goalscorer, if that there is no doubt. He plays centre forward now and I can’t honestly say he brings as much else to the team (not that he needs to due to the volume of goals he scores). Messi is a footballer who also happens to score barrowloads of goals. Messi will pop up all over he place making things happen, a magician at times. It’s harder for him as a 10 to play against 10 man defence Iceland as it is for Ronaldo to play as a 9 against a wide open Spain.

[stu in nottingham]

George Best for me. Genius is a much overused word but he certainly was one.

I don't see that his lack of a World Cup Winner's medal is relevant. If he'd been born Brazilian etc. he'd have had more than one of those tucked away.

[jacomo]

Didn't realise he didn't have as many caps so ill accept that no problem as similar ratio.

Let's see how Messi gets on this tournament but overall I still think Ronaldo is better. Done it in 2 different leagues too. Doubt Messi will leave Barca so hard to know how he would do outside Spain.

Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.


I think you could be pretty confident that Messi would do great in another league.

He’s bossed a number of English sides during his career, for example.

[neil7908]

Maradona.

[jacomo]

Maradona for me. That season at Napoli and the World Cup in '86 were something else. What i would also say is that players from those days had nowhere near the protection that Messi and Ronaldo get. Back then a defender could quite literally mark you out the game. The Italian defender Gentille has the football boots he wore when he put Maradona out the 82 world cup in a glass case on his matlepiece!!:greengrin


Flip side of that argument is that the game was so much slower and attacking players had a lot more time.

[James70]

As great and talented player that he was, Best had far too short a career to be considered among the greatest players ever. At the peak of his career he was undoubtedly one of the world's top players, maybe even the greatest at the time. If he had not self destructed at such a young age and been able to continue at the top level well into his 30s as so many do nowadays then I'm sure he would be in the top 10 greatest players ever at the very least. Unfortunately he never realised the limits of what his talents could achieve after winning the European Cup at a young age. That was part of his downfall as he saw that as the most he could ever achieve in the game.

[KWJ]

2 years ago I'd have said Messi but C Ronaldo somehow kicked on at the age of 31. Phenom.

[Shrekko]

Imagine Pele in todays limited contact game. All records would be broken.

Think it’s generally accepted that it’s harder to score goals these days as marking is far tighter and defenders are more athletic.

You ever watch old footage of games in the 50’s and 60’s? The space you got on the ball is incredible.

Pele only ever played in Brazil so absolutely impossible to say that.

[Shrekko]

How come Ronaldo all of a sudden is a greater international player than Messi? He’s only scored 3 World Cup goals before last night. Messi can’t rely on games against teams like Andorra and San Marino to pad his stats either. Ronaldo has won a Euros but he certainly didn’t do it single handedly -he missed most of the final and was extremely poor in the early games.

In saying that I think only Maradona compares to the 2 current superstars and even he didn’t do it for 15 years solid.

[Sir David Gray]

Lionel Messi is the best footballer of all time.

I think people are being caught up in the moment with Ronaldo's free kick last night.

Barcelona don't have anywhere near as cohesive a side as Real Madrid these days yet Messi still drags Barca to league titles which for me is a bigger achievement than Ronaldo playing in a Champions League winning side.

Ronaldo has scored 311 La Liga goals for Real Madrid in just 292 games. He also has 84 goals for Portugal in 154 games.

It's hardly just last night that people will be basing their opinions on.

[yonder1875]

Ronaldo has scored 311 La Liga goals for Real Madrid in just 292 games. He also has 84 goals for Portugal in 154 games.

It's hardly just last night that people will be basing their opinions on.

Of course they're not basing it directly on last night but when Ronaldo's just scored a fantastic free kick like that in front of a world audience, there will be heat of the moment calls.

And it's a myth that Ronaldo is a better goalscorer than Messi, the stats favour Messi.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ron is great but generally the team plays for him rather than the other way round.

Messi is incredible and has been consistently brilliant for over a decade.

Original fat Ron before his knee injury was unstoppable.

Went for Maradona though, who was patchier and ended up in disgrace but in 86 dragged a not great team to the world cup. And played when defenders were still allowed to kick **** out of him.

[Sir David Gray]

How come Ronaldo all of a sudden is a greater international player than Messi? He’s only scored 3 World Cup goals before last night. Messi can’t rely on games against teams like Andorra and San Marino to pad his stats either. Ronaldo has won a Euros but he certainly didn’t do it single handedly -he missed most of the final and was extremely poor in the early games.

In saying that I think only Maradona compares to the 2 current superstars and even he didn’t do it for 15 years solid.

Messi has only scored 5 World Cup goals so there's not much in it. Why don't you just say that you just dislike Ronaldo and we can all move on?

[hibs#1]

Of course they're not basing it directly on last night but when Ronaldo's just scored a fantastic free kick like that in front of a world audience, there will be heat of the moment calls.

And it's a myth that Ronaldo is a better goalscorer than Messi, the stats favour Messi.


Messi is also 3 years younger.

[theonlywayisup]

As great and talented player that he was, Best had far too short a career to be considered among the greatest players ever. At the peak of his career he was undoubtedly one of the world's top players, maybe even the greatest at the time. If he had not self destructed at such a young age and been able to continue at the top level well into his 30s as so many do nowadays then I'm sure he would be in the top 10 greatest players ever at the very least. Unfortunately he never realised the limits of what his talents could achieve after winning the European Cup at a young age. That was part of his downfall as he saw that as the most he could ever achieve in the game.

Totally agree - if Best had been playing at the top level for much longer then maybe I would include him in the list. But his career at the upper levels was far too short. I would say Gareth Bale is more aggrieved not to be on the list as he's achieved a lot more than Best in his career and consistently at a higher level (e.g. Euros Semi).

[Scouse Hibee]

Lionel Messi is the best footballer of all time.

I think people are being caught up in the moment with Ronaldo's free kick last night.

Barcelona don't have anywhere near as cohesive a side as Real Madrid these days yet Messi still drags Barca to league titles which for me is a bigger achievement than Ronaldo playing in a Champions League winning side.

Oh I think Barca have few players!

[Zazu62]

Messi or Austin Macphee

[Sir David Gray]

Of course they're not basing it directly on last night but when Ronaldo's just scored a fantastic free kick like that in front of a world audience, there will be heat of the moment calls.

And it's a myth that Ronaldo is a better goalscorer than Messi, the stats favour Messi.

Do they?

Messi has a La Liga record of 383 goals in 418 appearances over 13 years and as stated previously Ronaldo has 311 La Liga goals in 292 appearances over 9 years.

For Argentina, Messi has 64 goals in 124 appearances over 13 years and for Portugal, Ronaldo has 84 goals in 151 appearances over 15 years.

At the World Cup, Ronaldo has 6 goals in 14 appearances and at the time of writing this post Messi has 5 goals in 16 appearances.

At the European Championships Ronaldo has 9 goals in 21 appearances and at the Copa America Messi has 8 goals in 21 appearances.

For me the stats are so close it's impossible to separate them.

[nellio]

Ronaldo is a goalscorer, if that there is no doubt. He plays centre forward now and I can’t honestly say he brings as much else to the team (not that he needs to due to the volume of goals he scores). Messi is a footballer who also happens to score barrowloads of goals. Messi will pop up all over he place making things happen, a magician at times. It’s harder for him as a 10 to play against 10 man defence Iceland as it is for Ronaldo to play as a 9 against a wide open Spain.

A fair point. Just thankful were alive in an era where we can watch both and discuss who's best!!

[hibs#1]

Messi can't take penalties right enough.

[yonder1875]

Ronaldo has scored 311 La Liga goals for Real Madrid in just 292 games. He also has 84 goals for Portugal in 154 games.

It's hardly just last night that people will be basing their opinions on.

Please see.

https://twitter.com/utdtj/status/977532235074195456?s=21

[Shrekko]

Messi has only scored 5 World Cup goals so there's not much in it. Why don't you just say that you just dislike Ronaldo and we can all move on?

I think if that’s what I wanted to say I’d have said it. Seeing as it’s not true and I also said he was one of the 3 best players of all time I think you’re talking rubbish and trying to put words in my mouth. Be great if you wouldn’t do that- thanks!

Neither have international records to match their club form which isn’t actually the be all and end all IMO- the Champions League is just as high a standard of football.

[calumhibee1]

Do they?

Messi has a La Liga record of 383 goals in 418 appearances over 13 years and as stated previously Ronaldo has 311 La Liga goals in 292 appearances over 9 years.

For Argentina, Messi has 64 goals in 124 appearances over 13 years and for Portugal, Ronaldo has 84 goals in 151 appearances over 15 years.

At the World Cup, Ronaldo has 6 goals in 14 appearances and at the time of writing this post Messi has 5 goals in 16 appearances.

At the European Championships Ronaldo has 9 goals in 21 appearances and at the Copa America Messi has 8 goals in 21 appearances.

For me the stats are so close it's impossible to separate them.

If you use a fairer comparison of their goals ratio over their whole careers, then Messi will have a better league goal ratio. Using Messi’s league appearances as a 16 year old to lower his ratio but removing Ronaldos and starting his stats at the time he was the most expensive footballer in the world and at 24 pretty much in his prime isn’t really a fair comparison. Put in his Man Utd and Sporting Lisbon appearances and goals and it’s a fairer way to do it.

Ronaldos career club goals average is a goal every 1.33 games. Messi’s is a goal very 1.18 games. Which when you’re getting to the level they’re at is quite significant.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Messi all day long

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Not a trick question, but what has George Best achieved to be on a list of the top 11 players of all time. Not denying he was a great player, one of the best from the British Isles, but the greatest male footballer of all time? To be included in the list of greatest players of all time, I think you've got to do it at the World Cup or Euros latter stages, which George Best never did. Yes, he wasn't playing in a great team, but there are enough examples of nations that became great teams on the back of just one superstar (e.g. Hagi at Romania)



Question as per George Best



Eusebio - good shout and I did consider including him and Puskas. Both from a generation well before my time.

What's this 'greatest male player' pish?

Just greatest player surely? No woman would make the top 10,000.

On the topic, Messi is the greatest I've ever seen in my lifetime (just too young to have fully appreciated Maradona).

Older players can't win, because the surviving footage of them just doesn't compare- imagine every game Pele, or Di Stefano, era had been televised in full, YouTube mash-ups etc

[Killiehibbie]

Think it’s generally accepted that it’s harder to score goals these days as marking is far tighter and defenders are more athletic.

You ever watch old footage of games in the 50’s and 60’s? The space you got on the ball is incredible.

Pele only ever played in Brazil so absolutely impossible to say that.
A few world cups say he would've.

[1van Sprou7e]

Messi is the greatest male of all time

However we all know the greatest player of all time is our very own Lizzie Arnot

[Sir David Gray]

I think if that’s what I wanted to say I’d have said it. Seeing as it’s not true and I also said he was one of the 3 best players of all time I think you’re talking rubbish and trying to put words in my mouth. Be great if you wouldn’t do that- thanks!

Neither have international records to match their club form which isn’t actually the be all and end all IMO- the Champions League is just as high a standard of football.


I think if that’s what I wanted to say I’d have said it. Seeing as it’s not true and I also said he was one of the 3 best players of all time I think you’re talking rubbish and trying to put words in my mouth. Be great if you wouldn’t do that- thanks!

Neither have international records to match their club form which isn’t actually the be all and end all IMO- the Champions League is just as high a standard of football.

Heard you the first time. :wink:

[heretoday]

Oh I think Barca have few players!

That Suarez bloke is quite good! I'm loving this Ronnie v Messi thing that's threatening to take over every thread on here!

[ancient hibee]

Think it’s generally accepted that it’s harder to score goals these days as marking is far tighter and defenders are more athletic.

You ever watch old footage of games in the 50’s and 60’s? The space you got on the ball is incredible.

Pele only ever played in Brazil so absolutely impossible to say that.
However,attacking players receive much more favourable treatment from refs than they ever did in the past.As an example Pele was kicked out of the 1966 World Cup.If any of today’s players ever equal Pele’s feat of being the star of two World Cups 12 years apart I’ll be surprised.

[Scouse Hibee]

For me trying to pick one of all time is impossible due to the different eras, the players can never really be comparable.

I would rather select:

The greatest player I have seen regularly play in the flesh- King Kenny

My favourite all time player from TV coverage- Messi (seen him twice in the flesh)

[Keith_M]

John McGinnn.

[21.05.2016]

The Ronaldo v Messi debate is a hard one. I tend to go for Messi but there really is nothing you can say against Ronaldo either, both truly magnificent players, we're very lucky to be in an era with them both. Frighteningly good the pair of them. Certainly the two greatest players in my lifetime and it's difficult to see how anyone could come along and top them.

[Andymac85]

All about opinions, but for me Messi operates at his best when surrounded by world class players. Hence his comparatively poor form when representing Argentina. Ronaldo can completely change a game regardless of the supporting cast. That’s why he’s the better player for me. Wouldn’t say no to hibs taking either though.

[Hibby Mike]

Diego every day of the week. You would have to combine Messi with Ronaldo to even get near him. Ronaldo (the new one) 2nd behind him, because his balls are bigger than Messi's, with Roberto Baggio then behind.

[Andymac85]

Diego every day of the week. You would have to combine Messi with Ronaldo to even get near him. Ronaldo (the new one) 2nd behind him, because his balls are bigger than Messi's, with Roberto Baggio then behind.

I used to love watching Baggio play, absolute magician.

[stu in nottingham]

Totally agree - if Best had been playing at the top level for much longer then maybe I would include him in the list. But his career at the upper levels was far too short. I would say Gareth Bale is more aggrieved not to be on the list as he's achieved a lot more than Best in his career and consistently at a higher level (e.g. Euros Semi).

I wouldn't agree really. George had over a decade at Old Trafford and was consistently brilliant throughout that time. He'd achieved greatly by the time he was in his early twenties.

In general, players who played in past eras tend to be ignored or underrated in these types of debates - which is perfectly understandable as people see more currently players more often and sometimes even there is little footage to by if we go far back enough. We will never see great and elite players such as Puskas, Di Stefano, Garrincha or even home grown players such as our own Gordon Smith or Matthews, Finney and Duncan Edwards. Indications and repute would say they are likely contenders though.

[JoeT]

Ronaldo 3 Spain 3
He gets my vote

[worcesterhibby]

Messi failed to make the difference today and failed to score a penalty. Lost his side 3 points.

Pele for me. Ronaldo (the thin one) second.

[theonlywayisup]

I wouldn't agree really. George had over a decade at Old Trafford and was consistently brilliant throughout that time. He'd achieved greatly by the time he was in his early twenties.

In general, players who played in past eras tend to be ignored or underrated in these types of debates - which is perfectly understandable as people see more currently players more often and sometimes even there is little footage to by if we go far back enough. We will never see great and elite players such as Puskas, Di Stefano, Garrincha or even home grown players such as our own Gordon Smith or Matthews, Finney and Duncan Edwards. Indications and repute would say they are likely contenders though.

Let's agree to disagree.

IMO Best isn't even in the top 20 World Best ever players.

[jgl07]

Half those listed are not fit to lace up Eusebio’s boots.

[Scouse Hibee]

Let's agree to disagree.

IMO Best isn't even in the top 20 World Best ever players.

I agree, he was way ahead of most folk at the bar though.

[theonlywayisup]

Half those listed are not fit to lace up Eusebio’s boots.

Before my time, but I read....

Eusébio is considered by many as one of the greatest footballers of all time.*During his professional career, he scored 733 goals in 745 matches (41 goals in 64 matches for Portugal).

[JoeT]

I wouldn't agree really. George had over a decade at Old Trafford and was consistently brilliant throughout that time. He'd achieved greatly by the time he was in his early twenties.

In general, players who played in past eras tend to be ignored or underrated in these types of debates - which is perfectly understandable as people see more currently players more often and sometimes even there is little footage to by if we go far back enough. We will never see great and elite players such as Puskas, Di Stefano, Garrincha or even home grown players such as our own Gordon Smith or Matthews, Finney and Duncan Edwards. Indications and repute would say they are likely contenders though.

George age 33 signs for hibs. Ronaldo age 33 scores hatrick at world cup v fancied Spain

[Skol]

Comparisons are too difficult as they are rarely like for like. I will use sauzee and latapy as an example. There is a case for either to have been the greatest hibs player and they were both great players in their own way. Sauzee was the best, but at time Latapy was just awesome. It might be easier to pick a group of say 5. So for me:

Hibs players I have seen, top 5 would be sauzee, latapy, archibald, collins and either stanton or best - but I was very yound and didnt see much of either

Widen it out to players I have actually seen and I would say Messi, Dalglish, Gascoigne. Laudrup and Bryan Robson

Then players I have seen on the telly and its Ronaldo, Maradona, Van Basten, Beckenbauer and baggio

And finally players I have seen footage of and you have Pele, Best (pre hibs), Di Stefano, Puskas and Eusebio

[stu in nottingham]

Let's agree to disagree.

IMO Best isn't even in the top 20 World Best ever players.

It's only ever opinion. Happy for you to have yours as I shall have mine.

[stu in nottingham]

George age 33 signs for hibs. Ronaldo age 33 scores hatrick at world cup v fancied Spain

George was an alcoholic by that time. Not much of a comparison.

[stu in nottingham]

I agree, he was way ahead of most folk at the bar though.

And every Liverpool player.

[JoeT]

George was an alcoholic by that time. Not much of a comparison.

And that's a shame and probably why George isn't on the list

[Scouse Hibee]

And every Liverpool player.

At the bar definitely, couldn't lace Kenny's boots
All about opinions though 👍

[JoeT]

Comparisons are too difficult as they are rarely like for like. I will use sauzee and latapy as an example. There is a case for either to have been the greatest hibs player and they were both great players in their own way. Sauzee was the best, but at time Latapy was just awesome. It might be easier to pick a group of say 5. So for me:

Hibs players I have seen, top 5 would be sauzee, latapy, archibald, collins and either stanton or best - but I was very yound and didnt see much of either

Widen it out to players I have actually seen and I would say Messi, Dalglish, Gascoigne. Laudrup and Bryan Robson

Then players I have seen on the telly and its Ronaldo, Maradona, Van Basten, Beckenbauer and baggio

And finally players I have seen footage of and you have Pele, Best (pre hibs), Di Stefano, Puskas and Eusebio

I like this post. Players I saw in flesh: Shevchenko, Boban, Maldini, Costacurta, Veron. I saw Milan Lazio 20 or so years ago.
In Scotland: Larsson, Gazza,Laudrup, Franck and JoeT! Maybe Shearer and Rooney at Easter Rd. Rooney was just boy and I loved Blackburn fans joining the "what a waste of money" chant when Shearer played one of his first games for them against us after his huge £4m signing

[superfurryhibby]

Comparisons are too difficult as they are rarely like for like. I will use sauzee and latapy as an example. There is a case for either to have been the greatest hibs player and they were both great players in their own way. Sauzee was the best, but at time Latapy was just awesome. It might be easier to pick a group of say 5. So for me:

Hibs players I have seen, top 5 would be sauzee, latapy, archibald, collins and either stanton or best - but I was very yound and didnt see much of either

Widen it out to players I have actually seen and I would say Messi, Dalglish, Gascoigne. Laudrup and Bryan Robson

Then players I have seen on the telly and its Ronaldo, Maradona, Van Basten, Beckenbauer and baggio

And finally players I have seen footage of and you have Pele, Best (pre hibs), Di Stefano, Puskas and Eusebio

Decent analogy in principle, except only Collins has a case for being in the top ten Hibees of all time. Sauzee , Latapy, Best and Archie don’t come close, sozza

[sauzee6_2]

Absolutely no contest.......the greatest ever male player was (and is) Franck Sauzee.

[Wee Effen Bee]

🥇it’s Pele...no contest.

[Captain Trips]

My choice is Maradona and with the limited TV viewing we had of him which were mostly world cups and a few games from Italy and Spain there is a very very small percentage of his play on film as a pose to Ronaldo/Messi.

I think it's fair to assume the mass percentage of games we didn't see he was as good.

[Haymaker]

Robin Friday

[lochhibs]

for what maradona done for napoli and argentina in the 80's wins it for me. none of the others on the list would have done what he done.

[monktonharp]

had to go for Di Stephano. when I was a young boy, he was the name around football. Real Madrid, winning the European cup 5 times in that era, it was a given that he was top of the list. Barca were not at the races then. Older fans might mention Gordon Smith. shame he did not play at that higher level as for what I have heard, he was soo good!

[Tomsk]

'Male player'! LOL!

What is this? The Guardian?

[nellio]

Before my time, but I read....

Eusébio is considered by many as one of the greatest footballers of all time.*During his professional career, he scored 733 goals in 745 matches (41 goals in 64 matches for Portugal).

Went on the benfica stadium tour and museum last year. Fantastic Eusebio exhibit. Great stadium too just gutted there wasn't a game on whilst I was there.

[heretoday]

Before my time, but I read....

Eusébio is considered by many as one of the greatest footballers of all time.*During his professional career, he scored 733 goals in 745 matches (41 goals in 64 matches for Portugal).

Eusebio is my choice too. I remember being stunned by his speed and control plus explosive shot back in the day. Most defences were too!

I think he would have fitted in to any of the modern day one-touch teams - Spurs, City or whatever.

[Sammy7nil]

At the bar definitely, couldn't lace Kenny's boots
All about opinions though 👍

As much as I cursed him at times when playing for Scotland when you are talking about the greatest British player i think you start with Kenny D and work backwards there after.

[Stranraer]

Zidane for me. Remember watching him in 1998 and being amazed at how good he was on the ball.

[RyeSloan]

As others have said you really hard to just pick one due to the changes in football over the generations.

Pele followed by Eusébio then Maradona from the 80’s.

The 90’s has some great players (Van Basten and Bergkamp to name but two) but I’m not sure there was one that transcended the game like a true great needs to.

Since then it’s the Ron & Messi show...two true greats that have delivered over such a long period it’s hard to argue that any player can be deserving of being ahead of either of them.

So a top 5 of Pele, Eusébio, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi.

And as for who is ‘greater’ between Ron and Messi....you simply can’t split them [emoji2]

[Keith_M]

'Male player'! LOL!

What is this? The Guardian?


That's what I was thinking. It's PC gone mad, I tell ya!


The greatest Male Footballer of all time is the greatest Footballer of all time.

Same goes for Tennis, Rugby, Boxing, Athletics, Cricket, Baseball, American Football, Golf.......



Maybe if Nagging and washing the dishes were sports, it might be a topic for debate :wink:

[Barman Stanton]

Decent analogy in principle, except only Collins has a case for being in the top ten Hibees of all time. Sauzee , Latapy, Best and Archie don’t come close, sozza

I’m sure it was Reilly who said Sauzee would have got a game in the Famous Five team. I would certainly put Sauzee in a top ten Hibs list.

[guthrie01]

Zidane for me. Remember watching him in 1998 and being amazed at how good he was on the ball.

Zidane deserves more credit, not only amongst the best when playing but performed well in management, winning 3 CL trophies in a row. Zidane has proved himself in every possible way, winning leagues, world cups and numerous cup competitions. Has to be up there when talking about the GOAT.

[Unseen work]

For me it’s only between Messi and Ronaldo as I never got to see Pele, Maradona And others play.

Although watching videos etc the standard was completely different back then and nowhere near the quality it is today.

Messi is more of likeable player and I think that plays massively in his favour as a lot of people seem to take a real disliking to Ronaldo as they think he is a poser, arrogant and much more.

They’re both tremendous players who continuously outdo each other and we are lucky to see them play in the same era.

God knows who will take the title of being the best once they retire.

[Mick O'Rourke]

For me it’s only between Messi and Ronaldo as I never got to see Pele, Maradona And others play.

Although watching videos etc the standard was completely different back then and nowhere near the quality it is today.

Messi is more of likeable player and I think that plays massively in his favour as a lot of people seem to take a real disliking to Ronaldo as they think he is a poser, arrogant and much more.

They’re both tremendous players who continuously outdo each other and we are lucky to see them play in the same era.

God knows who will take the title of being the best once they retire.


You havent watched the 1970 World Cup Final then? Or the '78 final?
Quality was abound back then. Too many names to mention.
Never mind Brazil or Argentina, who won those finals i list
European clubs had many "world class" players in the 70s
A who's who of quality players.indeed.

[cabbageandribs1875]

get Marco Van Basten included, a total footballer from the Dutch total football era :agree: even though his career was sadly cut very short after injury

[ancient hibee]

For me it’s only between Messi and Ronaldo as I never got to see Pele, Maradona And others play.

Although watching videos etc the standard was completely different back then and nowhere near the quality it is today.

Messi is more of likeable player and I think that plays massively in his favour as a lot of people seem to take a real disliking to Ronaldo as they think he is a poser, arrogant and much more.

They’re both tremendous players who continuously outdo each other and we are lucky to see them play in the same era.

God knows who will take the title of being the best once they retire.
If you don’t mind me saying so I think you are confusing the level of fitness today with the level of performance.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

For me the only debate to be had is who's the best of an era. Football changes from era to era never mind from when pele played to when messi played.

Football was barely available to watch "back in the day" so how comparisons can be made baffles me tbh

In this modern era, lionel Messi is the most naturally gifted out of the 2 greats we're watching although the constant dick measuring to compare the 2 is so ****ing boring imo. Loving watching both of them play.

My favourite player I've seen though, is Zinedine Zidane

[Mick O'Rourke]

For me the only debate to be had is who's the best of an era. Football changes from era to era never mind from when pele played to when messi played.

Football was barely available to watch "back in the day" so how comparisons can be made baffles me tbh

In this modern era, lionel Messi is the most naturally gifted out of the 2 greats we're watching although the constant dick measuring to compare the 2 is so ****ing boring imo. Loving watching both of them play.

My favourite player I've seen though, is Zinedine Zidane

I guess some of us older guys who saw the 60s and 70s teams/players would be thinking the same.
Its no possible for younger fans to be able to compare today with yester year.

Apart from the obvious of watching The Tornadoes early 70s, I think that decade was brilliant.
Watching World stars on TV was becoming more common by then.... and in colour !
Scotland qualified for 2 World Cups in the 70s.
1974 side was possibly our best squad.
A great decade for football,and so many class footballers.
And Scotland clearly had a world class footballer in King Kenny.

Sorry!... Sir King Kenny;-)

[FilipinoHibs]

You havent watched the 1970 World Cup Final then? Or the '78 final?
Quality was abound back then. Too many names to mention.
Never mind Brazil or Argentina, who won those finals i list
European clubs had many "world class" players in the 70s
A who's who of quality players.indeed.

Pele's at 18 in 58 final. Eusebio for club an country.

[ancient hibee]

I guess some of us older guys who saw the 60s and 70s teams/players would be thinking the same.
Its no possible for younger fans to be able to compare today with yester year.

Apart from the obvious of watching The Tornadoes early 70s, I think that decade was brilliant.
Watching World stars on TV was becoming more common by then.... and in colour !
Scotland qualified for 2 World Cups in the 70s.
1974 side was possibly our best squad.
A great decade for football,and so many class footballers.
And Scotland clearly had a world class footballer in King Kenny.

Sorry!... Sir King Kenny;-)
You’re right .1974 was the best squad and performances although I’ve always thought Willie Ormond made a mistake in not bringing on Ford against Zaire.

[pollution]

Benny Brazil

[Captain Trips]

Zidane deserves more credit, not only amongst the best when playing but performed well in management, winning 3 CL trophies in a row. Zidane has proved himself in every possible way, winning leagues, world cups and numerous cup competitions. Has to be up there when talking about the GOAT.

Things may have went pear shaped at FIFA for him but another French player and definately a great was Platini. Made it look effortless.

[O'Rourke3]

Pele. 3 WC winners medals and targeted in the other 2 intervening competitions when two footed tackles to the haw maws was seen as worthy of a wagging finger. Maradona comes close. Cruyff threw the toys out the pram despite having superb talent. Best came from the wrong country. The argument is usually whether the old gods could play today. Definitely. Today's players could not compete back then as what makes them great today would have been kicked out of them.... All IMHO

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Captain Trips]

Pele. 3 WC winners medals and targeted in the other 2 intervening competitions when two footed tackles to the haw maws was seen as worthy of a wagging finger. Maradona comes close. Cruyff threw the toys out the pram despite having superb talent. Best came from the wrong country. The argument is usually whether the old gods could play today. Definitely. Today's players could not compete back then as what makes them great today would have been kicked out of them.... All IMHO

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

That's correct Maradona etc got a kicking. Today they would totally be up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

[WeeRussell]

Find it amazing so many people try to claim Messi and other stars couldn’t be effective decades ago just because what is deemed an acceptable challenge has changed over the years.

They play according to how the games are played these days. I’m sure they would adapt if the rules were suddenly different again.

Defenders struggle to get close enough to Messi to kick him. This wouldn’t change regardless of the rules. The man is an unbelievable talent.

[WeeRussell]

Not a trick question, but what has George Best achieved to be on a list of the top 11 players of all time. Not denying he was a great player, one of the best from the British Isles, but the greatest male footballer of all time? To be included in the list of greatest players of all time, I think you've got to do it at the World Cup or Euros latter stages, which George Best never did. Yes, he wasn't playing in a great team, but there are enough examples of nations that became great teams on the back of just one superstar (e.g. Hagi at Romania)



Question as per George Best



Eusebio - good shout and I did consider including him and Puskas. Both from a generation well before my time.

I hate the “has to win a World Cup” or similar arguments. Basically you’re saying Best can’t be considered because he was Northern Irish.

[Gordy M]

Find it amazing so many people try to claim Messi and other stars couldn’t be effective decades ago just because what is deemed an acceptable challenge has changed over the years.

They play according to how the games are played these days. I’m sure they would adapt if the rules were suddenly different again.

Defenders struggle to get close enough to Messi to kick him. This wouldn’t change regardless of the rules. The man is an unbelievable talent.
No one is saying he wouldnt be effective but Pele and Maradonr were both literally kicked out of tournaments where they were unable to play any further part. Messi does not have to deal with that environment so it has to be part of the 'discussion'.

[Mac_17]

Really surprised with the lack of votes for Zidane and Ronaldinho.

Zidane for me is the best player iv seen. For me he was the complete player.

and Ronaldinho made football look so easy... just a shame after success at barca he just didnt fancy it anymore.

[Barman Stanton]

Find it amazing so many people try to claim Messi and other stars couldn’t be effective decades ago just because what is deemed an acceptable challenge has changed over the years.

They play according to how the games are played these days. I’m sure they would adapt if the rules were suddenly different again.

Defenders struggle to get close enough to Messi to kick him. This wouldn’t change regardless of the rules. The man is an unbelievable talent.

Trust me, if you could get away with the same types of challenges as back then, then Messi would be kicked just like the rest. Maradona had all the skill of Messi and was quick. But not much you can do when people are out to injure you. Different being Maradona was built like a tank, so although he did get bad injuries, he was able to cope with more than most. Messi would struggle back then with his current physique.

[Gibby the Hibby]

I always think of who was the most unplayable at their peak.

sure messi and ronaldo have most likely done it at the highest level/stayed fit for a long time,
the modern player is different. messi for sure was born with the greater gifts.

But for me, its Maradona, play him in any team, in any generation, he will be a star,
He made very good teams, the best on the planet. argentina/napoli

the other Id have to say, is brazilian ronaldo, watching him in his first 5-6 years
was indeed phenomenal there has not been another all out striker with that amount of natural talent iever,, for me.

CR, whilst making himself the best in the world, was not born with the same talent as others,credit to him, but i cant say
he is better than the other ronaldo, who if fit for 12-14 years would have had a scary career, considering his inuries, he still has some records to his name,!
WC all time scorer

[Hibiza]

Jackie Mac Namara (Snr)

[Gibby the Hibby]

No one is saying he wouldnt be effective but Pele and Maradonr were both literally kicked out of tournaments where they were unable to play any further part. Messi does not have to deal with that environment so it has to be part of the 'discussion'.


I am a messi fan. but this is a fairpoint, If messi cannot be successful with the argentina team of now, then him playing in place of maradona in the 86 team... that argentina team is not improving, its declining and likely not winning the world cup, thats teh difference between the 2 for me,

Messi doesnt score that goal against england. infact.. neither, of the goals, as he wouldnt handball it either ;)

[Barman Stanton]

I am a messi fan. but this is a fairpoint, If messi cannot be successful with the argentina team of now, then him playing in place of maradona in the 86 team... that argentina team is not improving, its declining and likely not winning the world cup, thats teh difference between the 2 for me,

Messi doesnt score that goal against england. infact.. neither, of the goals, as he wouldnt handball it either ;)

You could even argue that what Maradona achieved at Napoli was even more impressive. To win 2 Seria A (and several cups and a UEFA Cup) when it was the best league in the World was incredible. Especially when you consider he was up against the great Milan team with Baresi, Maldini, Gullit, Van Basten etc. Would Messi be able to go to Bournemouth and have similar success. I seriously doubt it. And i think Messi is an incredible player, just that Maradona had a bigger influence in his prime.

[where'stheslope]

I've voted for Ronaldo, as the likes of Pele had a great team round him! With Ronaldo, he makes the others around him play better than they probibly would for Portugal.
When he played for Man Utd, he was outstanding, and they have missed him ever since he left.
Arriving at Real Madrid he has set record after record and at 33 still has as much influence in games as when he first started.
Everyone thought we would never see another Pele, yet years later in a much faster game Ronaldo just beggars belief on a football park.

[WeeRussell]

No one is saying he wouldnt be effective but Pele and Maradonr were both literally kicked out of tournaments where they were unable to play any further part. Messi does not have to deal with that environment so it has to be part of the 'discussion'.

They are. “Wouldn’t compete” suggests that. That’s why I replied.

I accept the maradona argument, the footage I’ve seen of him is utterly brilliant as well. I just don’t accept the assumption that Messi couldn’t have handled the physical game.

[WeeRussell]

Trust me, if you could get away with the same types of challenges as back then, then Messi would be kicked just like the rest. Maradona had all the skill of Messi and was quick. But not much you can do when people are out to injure you. Different being Maradona was built like a tank, so although he did get bad injuries, he was able to cope with more than most. Messi would struggle back then with his current physique.

Trust me, Messi wouldn’t “struggle” in any era. There are a number of great players over the years who weren’t well-built.

[theonlywayisup]

Trust me, if you could get away with the same types of challenges as back then, then Messi would be kicked just like the rest. Maradona had all the skill of Messi and was quick. But not much you can do when people are out to injure you. Different being Maradona was built like a tank, so although he did get bad injuries, he was able to cope with more than most. Messi would struggle back then with his current physique.

Maradona could handle himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akmutjMTuq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP3u2nDEcPA

[Barman Stanton]

Trust me, Messi wouldn’t “struggle” in any era. There are a number of great players over the years who weren’t well-built.

A player of his talent would be a major marked man. And he would be kicked all over the park. If you think he could handle that then fair enough, I personally have my doubts

[Since90+2]

A player of his talent would be a major marked man. And he would be kicked all over the park. If you think he could handle that then fair enough, I personally have my doubts

You could also argue that the fitness levels and overall athleticism of modern day players are light years ahead of when Maradona played. Would Maradona have had the dedication and fitness levels required to play at the same level Messi does in the modern game?

[theonlywayisup]

I hate the “has to win a World Cup” or similar arguments. Basically you’re saying Best can’t be considered because he was Northern Irish.

I didn't say "win a World Cup". All I'm saying, in my view, is to be considered as being the greatest footballer of all time, you have to do it against the best players and do it when it's important to do so - in the latter stages of the big tournaments. Scoring six goals against Northampton Town is not the same.

Gareth Bale has turned a mediocre Welsh side into a team that was challenging for a Euro final place. He's also won the Champions League four times. He's as much deserving of a place on the list as George Best.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Best wasn't a 'great'. But to have included him, would have brought into the equation many other's who are just as deserving as George Best.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Anyone who doubts the sheer class and ability of George Best clearly did not see him play.
I note he is not on the list, neither are Eusebio or Puskas.
There have been so many "great" players in my lifetime.
Choosing one is not easy.

George would have "walked" into any International team on the planet.

And he would have been a sensation at a World Cup Finals. (if he wasn't kicked off the park,as Eusebio was in 1966)

Along with Pele and Eusebio,George was the finest player i saw in the 60s ....................

...........apart from Willie Hamilton!

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Give it 20/30 years and there will be a new "Goat'

[WeeRussell]

I didn't say "win a World Cup". All I'm saying, in my view, is to be considered as being the greatest footballer of all time, you have to do it against the best players and do it when it's important to do so - in the latter stages of the big tournaments. Scoring six goals against Northampton Town is not the same.

Gareth Bale has turned a mediocre Welsh side into a team that was challenging for a Euro final place. He's also won the Champions League four times. He's as much deserving of a place on the list as George Best.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Best wasn't a 'great'. But to have included him, would have brought into the equation many other's who are just as deserving as George Best.

I know you didn’t, that’s why I made sure I said “and similar arguments”.

Gareth Bale isn’t anywhere near having the football genius that best did.

[DstN75]

Interesting article from last year about the difficulties of comparing across the ages. Basically, Maradona took a terrible beating every time he played - fouled (hard) 23 times by Italy in their 1982 World Cup game! Players much better protected now, thankfully.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/may/19/maradona-argentina-mexico-football-outlaw-age

[calumhibee1]

Give it 20/30 years and there will be a new "Goat'

Probably, but then that’s how sports work. Nearly every sport in the world has their GOAT currently active or if not currently, at least recently.

[allezsauzee]

I can't have Messi anywhere near Maradona when he has failed to shine at any world cup. He may have scored more goals in club football but he plays at a time where attackers are protected much much more than when Diego was around and in a situation where there is a much greater concentration of power/talent with the big clubs like Barca. I'm not sure Messi would have looked the player he does with the likes of Claudio Gentile booting him up and down the park all game.

[WeeRussell]

I can't have Messi anywhere near Maradona when he has failed to shine at any world cup. He may have scored more goals in club football but he plays at a time where attackers are protected much much more than when Diego was around and in a situation where there is a much greater concentration of power/talent with the big clubs like Barca. I'm not sure Messi would have looked the player he does with the likes of Claudio Gentile booting him up and down the park all game.

He dragged Argentina to extra time of the final in 2014 and was awarded player of the tournament.

[allezsauzee]

He dragged Argentina to extra time of the final in 2014 and was awarded player of the tournament.

Was that not just because he was the better than Ronaldo in that tournament seeing as people can't see beyond the pair of them? I don't really recall him being that great and certainly nothing like Maradona in 1986 but then maybe my memory is failing me :hmmm:

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

He dragged Argentina to extra time of the final in 2014 and was awarded player of the tournament.

Which was laughable imo. Wasn't even his country's best player at the last WC.

[Captain Trips]

I would say I know my football my first WC memory is 82 I can rhyme of 5 or 6 of the Italian team that won it. Italia 90 same with Germans, USA in 94 same with Brazil etc etc.

Mexico 86 I think without looking it up now Maradona and Burrachaga. There are more I will have heard of but not jumping out. Maradona had his work cut out for him. IMO Messi has far better players around him than Maradona ever had. Maradona had to step up and he did time and time again.

[MWHIBBIES]

Really surprised with the lack of votes for Zidane and Ronaldinho.

Zidane for me is the best player iv seen. For me he was the complete player.

and Ronaldinho made football look so easy... just a shame after success at barca he just didnt fancy it anymore.
What did Zidane do that Messi can't? Serious question, not trying to be cheeky.

[Barman Stanton]

You could also argue that the fitness levels and overall athleticism of modern day players are light years ahead of when Maradona played. Would Maradona have had the dedication and fitness levels required to play at the same level Messi does in the modern game?

It’s a good question and who knows huh. I think that Maradona would probably be less muscular nowadays. Which would give him greater stamina etc.

I think Messi is a great player, and the best in the world. But Messi fans tend to get pretty upset if you even suggest someone else may have been better.

[WeeRussell]

Which was laughable imo. Wasn't even his country's best player at the last WC.

Obviously there was plenty of argument for other players receiving the award, but I don't agree it was "laughable".. though many do.

He created more chances than anyone else at that world cup, scored big goals in each of their group games with only 2 players scoring more goals in the whole of the tournament. I think if it had been Argentina that won in ET that night, nobody would have batted an eyelid at the award.

[WeeRussell]

It’s a good question and who knows huh. I think that Maradona would probably be less muscular nowadays. Which would give him greater stamina etc.

I think Messi is a great player, and the best in the world. But Messi fans tend to get pretty upset if you even suggest someone else may have been better.

Not me - I absolutely love Messi because I'm sure he's the best footballer I've seen of all the people I've watched over their career (I'm not yet 30). I thought Ronaldo (twice), Ronaldinho, Zidane, Iniesta etc were all phenomenal players too... but Messi is a different animal in my opinion. I'm not certain he's the best there's ever been.. I just think he "must be" due to his freak ability. If someone disagrees then it doesn't upset me at all.

If Maradona was the superior of the two.. it's still pretty remarkable that (potentially) the two best players in history came from Argentina.

[JeMeSouviens]

I would say I know my football my first WC memory is 82 I can rhyme of 5 or 6 of the Italian team that won it. Italia 90 same with Germans, USA in 94 same with Brazil etc etc.

Mexico 86 I think without looking it up now Maradona and Burrachaga. There are more I will have heard of but not jumping out. Maradona had his work cut out for him. IMO Messi has far better players around him than Maradona ever had. Maradona had to step up and he did time and time again.

For sure. I remember the German team they beat in the final much better: Schumacher, Voeller, Rumenigge, Matthaeus etc.

They're actually quite similar players, low centre of gravity, incredible balance and speed of movement.

This goal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8oVF8mopzw

Reminds me of this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ema-3XuGOK8

And of course, the similarites between this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9DJ7k_aAX8

and this one are well known:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIAGPoUyYBs

You can't say Messi hasn't delivered in the big games (his record v Madrid is amazing on its own) or that he doesn't sometimes drag Barca with him. I think he suffers from weight of pressure much more than Diego did. in 86 it was only 8 years since Argentina won the WC. Now, it's 25 years since they won anything and the whole country's hopes are invested in Messi.

[makaveli1875]

What did Zidane do that Messi can't? Serious question, not trying to be cheeky.

Id like to see Messi try flatten a 6ft 4 italian defender with a headbutt

[Captain Trips]

For sure. I remember the German team they beat in the final much better: Schumacher, Voeller, Rumenigge, Matthaeus etc.

They're actually quite similar players, low centre of gravity, incredible balance and speed of movement.

This goal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8oVF8mopzw

Reminds me of this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ema-3XuGOK8

And of course, the similarites between this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9DJ7k_aAX8

and this one are well known:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIAGPoUyYBs

You can't say Messi hasn't delivered in the big games (his record v Madrid is amazing on its own) or that he doesn't sometimes drag Barca with him. I think he suffers from weight of pressure much more than Diego did. in 86 it was only 8 years since Argentina won the WC. Now, it's 25 years since they won anything and the whole country's hopes are invested in Messi.

He has stepped up what I mean is Argentina just now have several excellent players so if he doesnt play well they still have great players same if Aguero does not have a good game there is Messi and others. If Maradona didnt have a good game they were in severe trouble.

[JimBHibees]

He has stepped up what I mean is Argentina just now have several excellent players so if he doesnt play well they still have great players same if Aguero does not have a good game there is Messi and others. If Maradona didnt have a good game they were in severe trouble.

Argentina still had other quality players when he was playing Passarella, Valdano, Burrachaga etc

[WeeRussell]

He has stepped up what I mean is Argentina just now have several excellent players so if he doesnt play well they still have great players same if Aguero does not have a good game there is Messi and others. If Maradona didnt have a good game they were in severe trouble.

I think Argentina are as reliant on one player as anyone else at this year's world cup, in terms of winning it.

[Barman Stanton]

Not me - I absolutely love Messi because I'm sure he's the best footballer I've seen of all the people I've watched over their career (I'm not yet 30). I thought Ronaldo (twice), Ronaldinho, Zidane, Iniesta etc were all phenomenal players too... but Messi is a different animal in my opinion. I'm not certain he's the best there's ever been.. I just think he "must be" due to his freak ability. If someone disagrees then it doesn't upset me at all.

If Maradona was the superior of the two.. it's still pretty remarkable that (potentially) the two best players in history came from Argentina.

I’m 40 so watched Maradona rip apart Mexico 86 with a pretty average Argentina team. And then get them to another final 4 years later. Nostalgia definitely plays a part, I was young when watching that and Maradona seemed like a superhero.

Another player I think would be mentioned if it hadn’t been for injuries is Marco Van Basten. The complete centre forward who could do it all. I’m pretty sure the tackle from behind rule came in due to him retiring early due to the treatment he received.

It’s hard now to appreciate how dirty football was allowed back then. For me me one of the best examples is Vinnie Jones first minute tackle when Wimbledon won the Cup. It’s a straight red card and he hardly even got spoken to. Different days, but I can’t help but think Maradona etc would have a field day in today’s game.

[Captain Trips]

Argentina still had other quality players when he was playing Passarella, Valdano, Burrachaga etc

Passa and Ardiles did not play in final of 86. Burrachaga was an ok player who had game of life in final he is no Aguero or even Higuain. Valdano is good player yes but IMO they would not win WC without Diego.

Argentina still have an excellent team capable without Messi or without Aguero.

[Captain Trips]

I think Argentina are as reliant on one player as anyone else at this year's world cup, in terms of winning it.

I disagree If Messi was not around Argentina still have a squad of players with class in every department to more than win a world cup. I still believe Messi is one of the best of all time.

[Barman Stanton]

Argentina still had other quality players when he was playing Passarella, Valdano, Burrachaga etc

But do you think they had good enough players to win the World Cup without Maradona? That’s the key thing here. I called them a pretty average team and that’s probably a bit harsh. But I dont see them even getting past England without Maradona.

[Barman Stanton]

Anyone wanting to see the old legends in action should check out footballia.net. Pretty much every World Cup game ever is on it - full games as well.

Only a cpl of Hibs games on it though. Anyone can upload though if you can be assed ....

[Eyrie]

You could also argue that the fitness levels and overall athleticism of modern day players are light years ahead of when Maradona played. Would Maradona have had the dedication and fitness levels required to play at the same level Messi does in the modern game?

Or to turn that around …

Think how much better Pele, Maradona etc would have been if they'd benefited from modern sports science for their entire career.

[yonder1875]

Which was laughable imo. Wasn't even his country's best player at the last WC.

He scored some fantastic goals to get his side to the WC final, I can't remember a better Argentinian player last WC. Imagine the hysteria from some if Ronaldo scores a few to get Portugal to the final.

Even last weekend, Ronaldo scores a penalty, benefits from a goalkeeping howler and scored a wonderful free kick (which Messi beats him all day in that department) and Messi has a frustrating game against two banks of 5 in which he was basically playing central midfield and still being unlucky not to score. But now apparently this sequence of events because it is on mainstream TV has propelled Ronaldo above Messi.

Messi leads Barca to the Spanish double at a canter this season by 20 points and Ronaldo doesn't score a goal in the semi or final of the CL, but because the mainstream audience seen Ronaldo in the CL final and last Friday against Spain, he's the better player these days!

Despite Ronaldo being the 'greatest goalscorer of all time' Messi has won the European Golden Shoe a record 5 times, scored 91 goals in a calendar year, record for most goals in a season, scored more goals than Ronaldo since he moved to RM.

[BegbieHSC]

Stokesy ;)

[calumhibee1]

Or to turn that around …

Think how much better Pele, Maradona etc would have been if they'd benefited from modern sports science for their entire career.

Thing about that arguement though is that they didn’t benefit from it. Yes, it’s an advantage that Messi and Ronaldo have, but at the end of the day, they have it and Pele and Maradona etc didnt, that’s just the way it is. If that’s what makes Messi and Ronaldo better - being better athletes due to the advantages in sport science they have - then while it’s not a level playing field, they’re still better players. And for me that’s the biggest difference that sets Messi and Ronaldo apart, they’ll be way better than Pele and Maradona athletically.

Drop Pele and Maradona into football today and they’d struggle as the players that they were to be world class because the defenders would be way too athletic for them. Drop Messi and Ronaldo into football in Pele and Maradonas era and they’d be unstoppable athletically. People make a big point out of the kicking they used to take, but Messi and Ronaldo have guys with more power than players of yesteryear could only dream of coming steaming into them on a weekly basis.

[Barman Stanton]

Thing about that arguement though is that they didn’t benefit from it. Yes, it’s an advantage that Messi and Ronaldo have, but at the end of the day, they have it and Pele and Maradona etc didnt, that’s just the way it is. If that’s what makes Messi and Ronaldo better - being better athletes due to the advantages in sport science they have - then while it’s not a level playing field, they’re still better players. And for me that’s the biggest difference that sets Messi and Ronaldo apart, they’ll be way better than Pele and Maradona athletically.

Drop Pele and Maradona into football today and they’d struggle as the players that they were to be world class because the defenders would be way too athletic for them. Drop Messi and Ronaldo into football in Pele and Maradonas era and they’d be unstoppable athletically. People make a big point out of the kicking they used to take, but Messi and Ronaldo have guys with more power than players of yesteryear could only dream of coming steaming into them on a weekly basis.

Maradona came up against Baresi and Maldini. For me 2 of the greatest defenders of all time. The game has not changed all that much, it’s still 11 against 11 with a ball. I can’t talk for Pele as before my time, but I have no doubt at all Maradona would do just fine in today’s game.

[Eyrie]

Thing about that arguement though is that they didn’t benefit from it. Yes, it’s an advantage that Messi and Ronaldo have, but at the end of the day, they have it and Pele and Maradona etc didnt, that’s just the way it is. If that’s what makes Messi and Ronaldo better - being better athletes due to the advantages in sport science they have - then while it’s not a level playing field, they’re still better players. And for me that’s the biggest difference that sets Messi and Ronaldo apart, they’ll be way better than Pele and Maradona athletically.

Drop Pele and Maradona into football today and they’d struggle as the players that they were to be world class because the defenders would be way too athletic for them. Drop Messi and Ronaldo into football in Pele and Maradonas era and they’d be unstoppable athletically. People make a big point out of the kicking they used to take, but Messi and Ronaldo have guys with more power than players of yesteryear could only dream of coming steaming into them on a weekly basis.

Football has changed that much that comparing players from different eras is not comparing like with like. All you can do is compare how dominant each player was in his own era, and then compare that level of dominance.

If Messi and Ronaldo had grown up in the era of Pele, who is to say that they could achieve as much with the comparatively limited resources of yesteryear? The opposite is true - we'll never know if Pele and Maradona would be as dominant if they had grown up in the modern game as they were in their own times.

[Captain Trips]

Just watching Diego once again seeing how much he actually tried to not go down with the tackles. To think the percentage of his games that have no footage I have no doubt those performances were also superb.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iXWtMOwzqk

[Keyser Sauzee]

Messi is the best player to ever kick a football, pure and simple, there isn’t even a discussion to be had on the matter.

[heretoday]

I reckon Isco is as good as Ronnie or Messi.

[Mikey09]

Poll is void. No George Best.

[andybev1]

Poll is void. No George Best.

exactly

[monktonharp]

can I change my vote (which was irrelevant). just watched the best 10 for Messi. Messi it is.

[theonlywayisup]

Poll is void. No George Best.


exactly

Why is it void? There's the "someone not included above". So far, there are many more people voting Messi or Ronaldo than "someone not included above".

As I stated in the OP, there are many other contenders. To have included Best would have led to many more examples of "what about...............". The list is endless.

I took my list from the top 12 or so players that were listed in a website. The last time I checked, Best was rated 15th.

As the poll is highlighting, there are probably only four or five players that are generally regarded to be the "greatest ever" and George Best is not one of them.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Original Ronaldo for me. Pace, power and skill. He's the closest i've seen to unplayable. I remember teams in Italy having 3 men man marking him. He was to football what Usain Bolt is to sprinting. A once in a generation phenomenon. Injuries probably prevented him being the stand out against the rest on the list.

[Brightside]

The pole is guff without Paul Hanlon. But Messi is 2nd best footballer of my generation

[Pagan Hibernia]

Why is it void? There's the "someone not included above". So far, there are many more people voting Messi or Ronaldo than "someone not included above".

As I stated in the OP, there are many other contenders. To have included Best would have led to many more examples of "what about...............". The list is endless.

I took my list from the top 12 or so players that were listed in a website. The last time I checked, Best was rated 15th.

As the poll is highlighting, there are probably only four or five players that are generally regarded to be the "greatest ever" and George Best is not one of them.

i remember on my travels in Argentina 10 years ago speaking to people about football, after all the Maradona vs pele stuff from them I threw Best’s name into the mix. Not one of them had heard of him. And to be honest, why would they. For them he was someone who played 40 years earlier in a league the other side of the world and never graced a World Cup.

What does this prove? For me, not much. As we saw last night, and many times before, Messi’s genius can’t inspire an insipid Argentina team and Maradona couldn’t have got that Northern Ireland team to the World Cup. How the whole ‘never played at a World Cup’ argument is even given credibility given the hundreds of nobodies who have graced that tournament over the years is beyond me. If norn iron had made it to England in ‘66 or Mexico 70 and been knocked out in the first round would that have made best eligible for this list?

regardless, those lucky enough to see him play in his prime know they witnessed something special. I don’t know about greatest footballer ever, as how can you even compare great goal scorers and playmakers with great defenders. But there can’t have been many more naturally talented than Best.

[Mikey09]

Why is it void? There's the "someone not included above". So far, there are many more people voting Messi or Ronaldo than "someone not included above".

As I stated in the OP, there are many other contenders. To have included Best would have led to many more examples of "what about...............". The list is endless.

I took my list from the top 12 or so players that were listed in a website. The last time I checked, Best was rated 15th.

As the poll is highlighting, there are probably only four or five players that are generally regarded to be the "greatest ever" and George Best is not one of them.


Calm doon, it was a wee joke. However... Best was the best. :greengrin

[Liberal Hibby]

I always think when people discuss the current best players and include only Messi and Ronaldo the one player who can feel most aggrieved to be missed out of the discussion is Iniesta.

He's done it domestically, done it in Europe, done it internationally. He should have won at least one Balon d'or. He's about as close to a complete midfielder as I've seen. He turns up in the big games; scored the winner and was man of the match in the WC final, man of the match in the Euros final. He has a habit of popping up with big goals at the right time. I think much like Paul Scholes a generation before him he suffers from not being as glamorous or marketable as his peers.

He's a joy to watch and is one of those players who seems to create time and space for himself and controls the pace of the game to suit himself and his team. He's a player who would sit with the greats of any generation and, whilst obviously different, is right up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

Quite. He's an utter genius and makes Messi tick at Barcelona - something missing from the abject Argentina performace at the world cup (but not surprising given their qualifying form).

I once spent an entire half just watching Iniesta and he gave away the ball once and every pass was helpful his Spanish colleague. He's slated to pay 60/70 mins at this world cup so enjoy him while he lasts.

Oh and by the way he has scored the winning goal in a world cup final. (Unlike Messi or the child Renaldo).

[theonlywayisup]

So, do we still think Messi and Ronaldo are the greatest ever footballer?

[Haymaker]

Robin Friday

[MWHIBBIES]

So, do we still think Messi and Ronaldo are the greatest ever footballer?

They are the best because of what they have already achieved, nothing that happens from here will change that.

[O'Rourke3]

They are the best because of what they have already achieved, nothing that happens from here will change that.

Other than they're not as great as Pele, I agree.