PDA

View Full Version : a new challenger approaches



CMac1988
07-06-2018, 11:02 AM
A few folk, myself included thought it was only a matter of time before one of the big streaming services dipped their toes into broadcasting premiership games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44396151

More fragmentation across services is a nuisance for those who subscribe to various services but I feel more competition for premiership rights can benefit Scottish football coverage.

One Day Soon
07-06-2018, 11:27 AM
A few folk, myself included thought it was only a matter of time before one of the big streaming services dipped their toes into broadcasting premiership games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44396151

More fragmentation across services is a nuisance for those who subscribe to various services but I feel more competition for premiership rights can benefit Scottish football coverage.


Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.

Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.

Carheenlea
07-06-2018, 11:33 AM
It’ll soon come to the point where the armchair fans are paying more to watch from their front room than what those that are paying to watch at the games themselves are.

WhileTheChief..
07-06-2018, 11:43 AM
Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.

Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.

They’re fantastic at what they do though!!

CockneyRebel
07-06-2018, 11:47 AM
Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.

Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.

Also, as an employer, they leave a lot to be desired. So easy to go to for practically everything - very scary.

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 11:57 AM
Amazon pass everything they save on tax, wage costs etc on to the consumer. They don’t pay out dividends to shareholders. What’s not to like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tamig
07-06-2018, 12:08 PM
Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.

Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.
They provide an unparalleled level of service though. Top notch.

ancient hibee
07-06-2018, 12:29 PM
Amazon pass everything they save on tax, wage costs etc on to the consumer. They don’t pay out dividends to shareholders. What’s not to like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So shareholders just rely on capital appreciation?

EdinMike
07-06-2018, 12:29 PM
Come a long way since selling just books ! And I’m a prime member anyway so win win.

HIBERNIAN-0762
07-06-2018, 12:31 PM
English football selling it's soul to the devil imo.

allezsauzee
07-06-2018, 12:36 PM
Amazon pass everything they save on tax, wage costs etc on to the consumer. They don’t pay out dividends to shareholders. What’s not to like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is very much a temporary phenomenon. Investors are prepared to forgo dividends while the stock price keeps going up but sooner or later they have to start making money on selling goods and that will probably be once they've ground their competitors into the dust. I do have to say that their service is excellent though!

flash
07-06-2018, 12:36 PM
They’re fantastic at what they do though!!

Unless you work for them.

cabbageandribs1875
07-06-2018, 12:42 PM
wonder when Amazon will announce prime plus.....they wont be giving it away for free, not for long anyway

Wembley67
07-06-2018, 12:44 PM
Unless you work for them.

But they are fantastic at offering jobs :greengrin

Spudster
07-06-2018, 12:51 PM
Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.
I run an Amazon store and they are a bloody nightmare. Others saying they offer a great service, alot of the time it's not really them, it's people like myself and Amazon take up most of the profit in any sales I get.

allezsauzee
07-06-2018, 01:28 PM
I run an Amazon store and they are a bloody nightmare. Others saying they offer a great service, alot of the time it's not really them, it's people like myself and Amazon take up most of the profit in any sales I get.

To be fair most people won't have any idea of what happens between them clicking a button to order and receiving the purchase the next day. Anyway, I think it's fair to say that Amazon aren't the white knight to save us from the media titans. I don't see Sky changing for the better when they are owned by one of Fox,Disney or Comcast in the not too distant future.

One Day Soon
07-06-2018, 01:39 PM
I run an Amazon store and they are a bloody nightmare. Others saying they offer a great service, alot of the time it's not really them, it's people like myself and Amazon take up most of the profit in any sales I get.


I help my sister with hers so I'm familiar with the internal horror stories. And they really are horror stories. Exploitative doesn't even begin to describe it.

Once Amazon get to critical mass it is going to be game over in whole sectors. Their monopoly status is very unhealthy and it is built on a deeply inequitable model where the giant corporation prospers on the backs of small traders and overworked staff with poor terms and conditions.

I actually can't articulate sufficiently contemptuous terms to adequately describe my views on Amazon.

Onion
07-06-2018, 01:53 PM
Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.

Their operating practices on their own platform are a gruesome mixture of keystone cops, ruthless, innovative, monopolistic and arguably often not in the consumer interest.

Only becomes a problem when huge companies start to abuse their position or distort the market. Apart from some dubious tax avoidance practices and question marks about their employment contracts, Amazon have revolutionised the retail sector for the better. Their customer service is gold standard and the bar for all others to strive for. They absolutely put to SHAME some of the more established retailers who have screwed consumers for decades with shoddy service, dodgy returns policies, commission based selling and inflated prices.

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 01:54 PM
I help my sister with hers so I'm familiar with the internal horror stories. And they really are horror stories. Exploitative doesn't even begin to describe it.

Once Amazon get to critical mass it is going to be game over in whole sectors. Their monopoly status is very unhealthy and it is built on a deeply inequitable model where the giant corporation prospers on the backs of small traders and overworked staff with poor terms and conditions.

I actually can't articulate sufficiently contemptuous terms to adequately describe my views on Amazon.

Why would anyone work for Amazon if it’s that bad? They hardly have a monopoly on jobs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KWJ
07-06-2018, 01:57 PM
As someone who doesn't have a TV licenese and only watches it "on demand" I take it I'd need to have one for this as it's a live event even if it not provided by BBC. I wonder if just having this option available with Prime causes it to be the case. Would cancel it then.

Or maybe I can pause for 1 second and watch 'as live' 😂

TelaStella
07-06-2018, 02:44 PM
English football selling it's soul to the devil imo.

That happened 20+ years ago


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

greenlex
07-06-2018, 03:40 PM
Amazon pass everything they save on tax, wage costs etc on to the consumer. They don’t pay out dividends to shareholders. What’s not to like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’d rather theypaid tax for the benefit of everyone rather than consumers. Not everyone uses Amazon and personally prefer to give my hard earned cash to a company that doesn’t abuse the tax system. If every company operated like amazon the country would be a bigger state than it currently is.

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 04:18 PM
I’d rather theypaid tax for the benefit of everyone rather than consumers. Not everyone uses Amazon and personally prefer to give my hard earned cash to a company that doesn’t abuse the tax system. If every company operated like amazon the country would be a bigger state than it currently is.

Your asking amazon to volunteer extra tax over what the are legally obliged to pay? Do you do that?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jacomo
07-06-2018, 04:49 PM
Only becomes a problem when huge companies start to abuse their position or distort the market. Apart from some dubious tax avoidance practices and question marks about their employment contracts, Amazon have revolutionised the retail sector for the better. Their customer service is gold standard and the bar for all others to strive for. They absolutely put to SHAME some of the more established retailers who have screwed consumers for decades with shoddy service, dodgy returns policies, commission based selling and inflated prices.


It’s estimated that up to 1/3 of UK consumers have bought a counterfeit electronic device.

This is largely down to online retailers, and the dominant one is: Amazon.

Yes their customer service is good but they don’t care about their customers, employees, or paying their way.

Think about that next time you are made to wait for a doctors appointment, or need the police or any other public service funded through taxation.

At least 38,000 jobs have been lost from the high street already this year. I won’t mourn the loss of many of those shops, but as an economy we are headed in a scary direction.

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 05:29 PM
It’s estimated that up to 1/3 of UK consumers have bought a counterfeit electronic device.

This is largely down to online retailers, and the dominant one is: Amazon.

Yes their customer service is good but they don’t care about their customers, employees, or paying their way.

Think about that next time you are made to wait for a doctors appointment, or need the police or any other public service funded through taxation.

At least 38,000 jobs have been lost from the high street already this year. I won’t mourn the loss of many of those shops, but as an economy we are headed in a scary direction.

If the government want to tax online retailers then they can do so. Amazon only pay the taxes the govt set.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keith_M
07-06-2018, 05:55 PM
Amazon however are in my view a threat to all our futures. If ever a giganto-monopoly needed regulation and restricting they are absolutely it.

Make no mistake, Amazon want to be the world's shop for everything. They also want to be the delivery system for that everything and they want to control who can sell what, at what price and in what volume.




:agree:


Yeah, they worry me as well.

They were fine when they were just selling books..... although a number of books shops went down the pan because of them, so maybe not.

Keith_M
07-06-2018, 05:58 PM
If the government want to tax online retailers then they can do so. Amazon only pay the taxes the govt set.



So are you saying they have a get out clause for deliberately circumventing the tax regime in the UK, just because we have an incompetent Government?


Sorry but, like most Rangers Fans, that doesn't wash

CropleyWasGod
07-06-2018, 06:13 PM
So are you saying they have a get out clause for deliberately circumventing the tax regime in the UK, just because we have an incompetent Government?


Sorry but, like most Rangers Fans, that doesn't washThey don't circumvent anything. They pay tax on their profits, like any other business.

People get aerated when they look at Amazon's top line.... tens of billions. But that's not what tax is based on.

They do have cross- border charges against profit, which reduces their tax bill. That's where the Government does have a responsibility. Those are the areas that should be legislated for.

Against that, is the argument that Amazon is a major employer in this country, and contributes hugely to the economy through PAYE, NI and VAT. A more aggressive tax regime might persuade them to move elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Onceinawhile
07-06-2018, 06:18 PM
If the government want to tax online retailers then they can do so. Amazon only pay the taxes the govt set.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like when the government tried to prove they had a permanent trading establishment in the UK, and Amazon said it was only support services? Bit in reality it was sales and they lied about it to save tax?

That's the government's fault? That Amazon lied through their teeth?

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 06:21 PM
So are you saying they have a get out clause for deliberately circumventing the tax regime in the UK, just because we have an incompetent Government?


Sorry but, like most Rangers Fans, that doesn't wash

What do you want amazon to do? Offer to pay extra tax that it is not due and put up its prices?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jacomo
07-06-2018, 06:43 PM
They don't circumvent anything. They pay tax on their profits, like any other business.

People get aerated when they look at Amazon's top line.... tens of billions. But that's not what tax is based on.

They do have cross- border charges against profit, which reduces their tax bill. That's where the Government does have a responsibility. Those are the areas that should be legislated for.

Against that, is the argument that Amazon is a major employer in this country, and contributes hugely to the economy through PAYE, NI and VAT. A more aggressive tax regime might persuade them to move elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Sorry but this is total rubbish.

They (and others) are avoiding paying their dues, by exploiting their global reach to thwart national tax regimes.

jacomo
07-06-2018, 06:46 PM
If the government want to tax online retailers then they can do so. Amazon only pay the taxes the govt set.





And Rangers were only using EBTs to be tax efficient. What’s your problem with it?

CropleyWasGod
07-06-2018, 06:48 PM
Sorry but this is total rubbish.

They (and others) are avoiding paying their dues, by exploiting their global reach to thwart national tax regimes.Which bits are rubbish?

I put two sides of the argument.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

One Day Soon
07-06-2018, 06:50 PM
They don't circumvent anything. They pay tax on their profits, like any other business.

People get aerated when they look at Amazon's top line.... tens of billions. But that's not what tax is based on.

They do have cross- border charges against profit, which reduces their tax bill. That's where the Government does have a responsibility. Those are the areas that should be legislated for.

Against that, is the argument that Amazon is a major employer in this country, and contributes hugely to the economy through PAYE, NI and VAT. A more aggressive tax regime might persuade them to move elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


In fact they are spectacularly complicit in allowing people who trade on their platform to play fast and loose with UK tax laws simply because they don't want to scare those traders off the platform due to the amount of revenue they generate for Amazon.

The most obvious example of this - but far from the only one - is an enormous number of 'companies' trading in the UK who are supposed to register for and pay VAT but who simply don't. There are also a large number of similar outfits trading on Amazon with false VAT registration numbers. The overwhelming majority of both of these are based abroad and mainly in one country - you can take a guess at which.

Amazon could confront this (trust me they are EXTREMELY diligent in many other ways about protecting their own interests) but they largely don't. If someone dodgy is turning over in excess of 100k on your platform and paying you a healthy slice of every sale why should you bother that they are both competing unfairly against others and defrauding the tax man?

There are many criticisms that could be made of Amazon and being a gigantic retail platform that seeks to 'own' retail and related commerce while disdaining any social responsibility for preventing the corrupt tax practices of a significant minority of sellers on the platform is a big one for me.

Having a look at the Amazon seller forums is a real eye opener.

madhibby
07-06-2018, 06:51 PM
They don't circumvent anything. They pay tax on their profits, like any other business.

People get aerated when they look at Amazon's top line.... tens of billions. But that's not what tax is based on.

They do have cross- border charges against profit, which reduces their tax bill. That's where the Government does have a responsibility. Those are the areas that should be legislated for.

Against that, is the argument that Amazon is a major employer in this country, and contributes hugely to the economy through PAYE, NI and VAT. A more aggressive tax regime might persuade them to move elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Typical accountant defending crap employers who are excellent at avoiding tax leading to crap public services for the rest of us.

CropleyWasGod
07-06-2018, 06:59 PM
Typical accountant defending crap employers who are excellent at avoiding tax leading to crap public services for the rest of us.Who is defending them? As I said before, I have put both sides of the argument.

FTR, I avoid using them whenever possible, for exactly the same reason as has already been said. The monopolisation of everything.

No need for the pigeon-holing, either. I do have other jobs [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

WhileTheChief..
07-06-2018, 07:09 PM
So I’m guessing you guys buy never buy from Nike, Apple, Samsung, etc etc etc.

All global corporations have practices somewhere in the workplace that leave a bad taste. I’m not about to live my life by it though.

We all want decent service and products. Amazon offer a great way to get both in my experience. Of course i can buy from any other online retailer but I’m not about to research their business model before I do!

It’s easier with Amazon. One login that’s always there, a couple of clicks and job done. Returns or complaints sorted instantly. Maybe if others followed suit they would have survived.

Ozyhibby
07-06-2018, 07:31 PM
And Rangers were only using EBTs to be tax efficient. What’s your problem with it?

My problem is with Rangers using dual contracts that were deliberately concealed from the SFA.
It’s two totally different things. My problem with the Rangers case is the SFA allowing them advantages not open to other clubs.
If the SFA dealt with them as fairly as HMRC dealt with them this whole thing would be over by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CraigHibee
07-06-2018, 08:58 PM
Unless you work for them.

i work for them in my spare time and have no complaints

Northern Hibby
07-06-2018, 09:26 PM
Does any of this envolve Scottish football?

Wilson
08-06-2018, 10:08 AM
Does any of this envolve Scottish football?

Not directly. Not at this time.

An evolving market for televised football should be of interest to us all though.

Those in charge of getting the best deal for us are hopefully paying very close attention.

jacomo
08-06-2018, 10:38 AM
Which bits are rubbish?

I put two sides of the argument.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


In general, you are exonerating Amazon from any responsibility - ‘they are not circumventing anything’ - and laying the blame at government’s door for failure to collect enough tax.

Yes, government is failing in its duties (as in some many areas) but there is a big structural problem: tax regimes are national, but these supranational companies can employ an army of tax lawyers and accountants to find loopholes and avoid paying tax.

This is what they are doing.

jacomo
08-06-2018, 10:41 AM
My problem is with Rangers using dual contracts that were deliberately concealed from the SFA.
It’s two totally different things. My problem with the Rangers case is the SFA allowing them advantages not open to other clubs.
If the SFA dealt with them as fairly as HMRC dealt with them this whole thing would be over by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The end result is the same.

Rangers used EBTs to give themselves a sporting advantage over their rivals.

Amazon use their scale and multiple subsidiaries in tax havens to create a competitive advantage not available to rival retailers.

In both cases the authorities are failing in their duties, yet you criticise one company and not the other.

CropleyWasGod
08-06-2018, 10:42 AM
In general, you are exonerating Amazon from any responsibility - ‘they are not circumventing anything’ - and laying the blame at government’s door for failure to collect enough tax.

Yes, government is failing in its duties (as in some many areas) but there is a big structural problem: tax regimes are national, but these supranational companies can employ an army of tax lawyers and accountants to find loopholes and avoid paying tax.

This is what they are doing.

I am certainly not exonerating them. I was merely laying out the various arguments.

Did you read my later post about my own attitude towards them?

As an aside, much of the tax issue would have been attacked by new EU-led legislation which is coming into effect next year. However, as I understand it, the UK will no longer be required to implement it post-Brexit.

Dr Jimmy
08-06-2018, 10:58 AM
I run an Amazon store and they are a bloody nightmare. Others saying they offer a great service, alot of the time it's not really them, it's people like myself and Amazon take up most of the profit in any sales I get.

I used to work for a major publishing company and Amazon are easily the worst company we worked with. Constant demands, increase in charges, regular threats and no respect for their suppliers need to cover costs and make money.
The publishing world must rue the day they got into bed with these guys.
The arrow under their logo is from the A to Z and their objectives are to supply everything. I am all for competition, but these guys are out to rule the world and when they do you will see the prices change!!

andybev1
08-06-2018, 11:26 AM
I have had a few free one month trials by using a new bank card each time and applying fir a free trial prime account- don't know if it still works . I also used a couple of my partners cards.

ancient hibee
08-06-2018, 06:35 PM
I have had a few free one month trials by using a new bank card each time and applying fir a free trial prime account- don't know if it still works . I also used a couple of my partners cards.
Do you have a harem by any chance?