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View Full Version : James Connolly was born in the Cowgate 150 years ago today



Stanton
05-06-2018, 06:33 PM
Son of Irish immigrants
Childhood Hibs fan
Socialist
trade union organiser
writer and thinker
leader of the Irish Citizen Army raised to resist the police brutality aimed at the workers during the Dublin lockout of 1913
Signatory of the proclamation of Irish Independence
revolutionary and soldier
executed tied to a chair in 1916 for his role in the Easter Rising

Irish National Hero
Hero of the Working Class
largely ignored in his home city :confused:

Canon Hannan
05-06-2018, 06:36 PM
James Connolly Stand surely instead of the South Stand?
Sevco fans would love sitting there 😁

Stanton
05-06-2018, 06:39 PM
James Connolly Stand surely instead of the South Stand?
Sevco fans would love sitting there 😁
:top marks:greengrin

DarlingtonHibee
05-06-2018, 06:39 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

Elephant Stone
05-06-2018, 06:43 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

:confused: What has that got to do with anything that has been said so far?

Stanton
05-06-2018, 06:44 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.
Agreed and something Connolly was a great advocate of ......not a sectarian bone in his body :thumbsup:
A staunch supporter of the working class whether they be Belfast Protestants or Dublin Catholics
Dont fall for the monstrous untruth that ties people like Connolly to sectarianism , that is one of the main things Connolly fought against ....because he saw Britain dividing the Irish along religious lines in order to divide and rule ....he was fighting for the working class and against imperialism

One Day
05-06-2018, 06:45 PM
James Connolly Stand surely instead of the South Stand?
Sevco fans would love sitting there 😁

Might not need to cut their allocation they'll do it themselves :flag:

superfurryhibby
05-06-2018, 06:50 PM
Son of Irish immigrants
Childhood Hibs fan
Socialist
trade union organiser
writer and thinker
leader of the Irish Citizen Army raised to resist the police brutality aimed at the workers during the Dublin lockout of 1913
Signatory of the proclamation of Irish Independence
revolutionary and soldier
executed tied to a chair in 1916 for his role in the Easter Rising

Irish National Hero
Hero of the Working Class
largely ignored in his home city :confused:

He has a plaque commemorating where he was born.

the fact that he was the leader of an attempted revolution against the British State during WW1 may preclude the city fathers of Edinburgh ever raising a statue to him though?

I also suppose that he is best known for his contribution to the development of trade unions in the USA and for his role in the Easter uprising, rather than his contribution to Edinburgh life might be a factor too.

Edit: having just been reading more about Connolly, it’s fair to say he contributed on Scottish basis and as a true internationalist.

I’ll raise a glass to him. His book “Socialism made Easy” certainly help focus my adolescent beliefs on the certainty that equality and social justice were worthy causes.

Stanton
05-06-2018, 06:52 PM
Darlington Hibee here is James Connolly featuring on the Durham Miners Banner

20864

20864

DarlingtonHibee
05-06-2018, 06:56 PM
I'm not disputing what he achieved, my grandfather fought for farm workers rights.

crash
05-06-2018, 07:01 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

Despite providing us with your background to give your comments some credence, you clearly do not know what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with Celtic, who you have introduced into the conversation to have a sideways swipe at. They are also an all inclusive club, just like us.

DarlingtonHibee
05-06-2018, 07:05 PM
I have given an opinion, I love hibernian football club and the ethos of the club (as does Neil). I don't really care about either of the old firm. I detest bigotry.

Pretty Boy
05-06-2018, 07:11 PM
It's time James Connolly was properly recognised in Edinburgh.

He's one of many sons and daughters of the city who rather than being recognised are reduced to footnotes. The easy sell of tartan tat and ghost stories paints the view of the city sold to visitors.

Stanton
05-06-2018, 07:11 PM
I have given an opinion, I love hibernian football club and the ethos of the club (as does Neil). I don't really care about either of the old firm. I detest bigotry.
As did James Connolly , don't fall for the people who try to pigeon hole Connolly as one side of a religious divide ..... there isn't a scintilla of truth or evidence that Connolly was anything other than focused on the Welfare of the Working class from whatever background and his belief that only breaking ties with Britain would allow the Irish to replace religious labels hung on them by the British with the common name of Irishmen and women

Wee Effen Bee
05-06-2018, 07:11 PM
Edinburgh man, James Connolly wanted to unite all faiths and none under the banner of fairness. He was: a Hibby; an anti imperialist; an anti royalist and an anti capitalist - was and is a hero to many. What’s not to like?😁

brog
05-06-2018, 07:17 PM
He has a plaque commemorating where he was born.

the fact that he was the leader of an attempted revolution against the British State during WW1 may preclude the city fathers of Edinburgh ever raising a statue to him though?

I also suppose that he is best known for his contribution to the development of trade unions in the USA and for his role in the Easter uprising, rather than his contribution to Edinburgh life might be a factor too.

Edit: having just been reading more about Connolly, it’s fair to say he contributed on Scottish basis and as a true internationalist.

I’ll raise a glass to him. His book “Socialism made Easy” certainly help focus my adolescent beliefs on the certainty that equality and social justice were worthy causes.

My Dad played a large part in persuading the council to initially put up the commemorative plaque. For many years it was vandalised & replaced so I'm pleased to hear the latest iteration remains in place.

adhibs
05-06-2018, 07:24 PM
hopefully the flag will return next season :not worth

superbam
05-06-2018, 07:31 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

Can you explain what exactly James Connolly has to do with celtic, or religion please? Genuinely curious about where you are coming from....!

The Baldmans Comb
05-06-2018, 07:33 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

What does any of this this have to do with the 150th birthday of James Connolly or Celtic or religion.?

A truly great man who died for his beliefs but his legacy now lives on through the rich and hugely respected country of Ireland.

Being a Hibs ball boy and Hibs supporter is the very least of his achievements but nonetheless worth a footnote in his historical relevance.

CMurdoch
05-06-2018, 07:45 PM
This thread should be on the Holy Ground forum rather than the main football forum.

The Tubs
05-06-2018, 07:50 PM
I would love to see a film telling his story, especially if they could involve the foundation of Hibs in his childhood.

Does Irvine Welsh not fancy calling some of his Hollywood buddies and getting them on the case?

The Tubs
05-06-2018, 07:51 PM
This thread should be on the Holy Ground forum rather than the main football forum.


I dunno. It’s a wee bit like talking about the proclaimers or Andy Murray.

Keith_M
05-06-2018, 07:53 PM
:confused: What has that got to do with anything that has been said so far?


I realise Connolly is a hero to many but I think we should stick to celebrating those that mean something to Hibs for purely football reasons, not trying to associate ourselves with a long gone, potentially divisive political figure.

Let's leave arguments about Irish Political figures to Rantic, irrespective of where they were born or which team they supported as a kid.

barcahibs
05-06-2018, 07:56 PM
Edinburgh man, James Connolly wanted to unite all faiths and none under the banner of fairness. He was: a Hibby; an anti imperialist; an anti royalist and an anti capitalist - was and is a hero to many. What’s not to like?😁

And not all Hibbies will be anti-imperialist, anti-royalist or anti-capitalist which is why it should be nothing to do with Hibs.

Agree he should have more recognition within Scotland and Edinburgh as an important political figure. (Even though i dont think someone who was part of a revolution aginst Britain in the middle of the Great War should be celebrated within the UK.)

The Harp
05-06-2018, 07:58 PM
Undoubtedly one of Hibernian most famous sons. I was aware of James Connolly's 150th approaching but it went right out of my head today until I saw this thread (thanks Stanton).
What is regularly overlooked is Connolly's support of the suffragette movement and votes for women generally.
The man achieved greatness from humble beginnings.

The Tubs
05-06-2018, 07:59 PM
And not all Hibbies will be anti-imperialist, anti-royalist or anti-capitalist which is why it should be nothing to do with Hibs.

Agree he should have more recognition within Scotland and Edinburgh as an important political figure. (Even though i dont think someone who was part of a revolution aginst Britain in the middle of the Great War should be celebrated within the UK.)


While this is definitely veering into holy ground territory, I’d hope everyone is anti-imperialist nowadays.

Elephant Stone
05-06-2018, 07:59 PM
I realise Connolly is a hero to many but I think we should stick to celebrating those that mean something to Hibs for purely football reasons, not trying to associate ourselves with a long gone, potentially divisive political figure.

Let's leave arguments about Irish Political figures to Rantic, irrespective of where they were born or which team they supported as a kid.

The person I quoted said something about wanting us to be open to anyone of any race or colour. I don't see how that has anything to do with what's being discussed and I think that - as well as using the phrase 'mini Celtic' - is pretty reductive and insulting.

hibsbollah
05-06-2018, 08:00 PM
A great man.

CMurdoch
05-06-2018, 08:05 PM
I dunno. It’s a wee bit like talking about the proclaimers or Andy Murray.

The difference is that both are relevant now and linked to Hibs.
The Proclaimers are inextricably linked to Hibs through "Sunshine on Leith" & Andy Murray is our countries greatest ever sportsman.

superbam
05-06-2018, 08:07 PM
The person I quoted said something about wanting us to be open to anyone of any race or colour. I don't see how that has anything to do with what's being discussed and I think that - as well as using the phrase 'mini Celtic' - is pretty reductive and insulting.

Indeed and anyone even vaguely familiar with Connolly's life and works would be aware that he embodied those very principles.

I find it genuinely sad that some folks can only view Connolly through the prism of old firm jingoism and therefore get all jumpy about celebrating or even being interested in one of Edinburgh's greatest sons, whose entire manifesto was the very antithesis of sectarian nonsense. **** celtic and the huns, they dont get to cast a shadow on the history of our city like that.

The Harp
05-06-2018, 08:17 PM
I realise Connolly is a hero to many but I think we should stick to celebrating those that mean something to Hibs for purely football reasons, not trying to associate ourselves with a long gone, potentially divisive political figure.

Let's leave arguments about Irish Political figures to Rantic, irrespective of where they were born or which team they supported as a kid.


Surely this thread is a recognition of a socialist who is held in high esteem by many at home and abroad, on his 150th anniversary. Connolly, even in his later years maintained his interest in, and his love of, the Hibs.
Can't see the harm in honouring his memory by having a thread on Hibs.net.

hibee316
05-06-2018, 08:19 PM
Can't get much enthused by these celebrity supporters myself!

IGRIGI
05-06-2018, 08:25 PM
Socialism - Stealing from the cans to give to the cants.

I think I'll pass.

barcahibs
05-06-2018, 08:31 PM
While this is definitely veering into holy ground territory, I’d hope everyone is anti-imperialist nowadays.

I've no idea. There are certainly pro arguments can be made for Imperialism in some forms through history. And there are certainly a lot of anti arguments too. But a football ground or a football messageboard isn't the place to have them, and Hibs, as a football club, should have no opinion either way.

When we start heading in the direction of having an official - or even unofficial - stance on the politics of Ireland, that's when we start to stray towards becoming the cancer that is celtc and sevco.

Cabbage East
05-06-2018, 08:35 PM
Hero.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
05-06-2018, 08:39 PM
Regardless of whether people believed in his politics or not, Connolly was a great man who came out of the same community as Hibs, and of course many of our supporters and their families.

The Cowgate was - quite literally - beneath most of edinburgh society, and yet that community's football club has become a genuine Edinburgh institution against the odds, and a man like Connolly who is to many Irish, a figure similar to Wallace, Bruce or Bonnie Prince Charlie.

That's why I think he is worthy of respect- he is one of us, both literally and metaphorically in his journey from maligned outsider to towering historical figure.

Golden Bear
05-06-2018, 08:43 PM
Us folk that are only interested in Hibs as a football team have got to be ejukated don't you know.

CathroMustStay
05-06-2018, 08:45 PM
Socialism - Stealing from the cans to give to the cants.

I think I'll pass.

A direct quote from Sevco Media?

Anyway Mr Connolly was one of the finest people of his age and any association with our club, however slight, is an honour.

:not worth

BullsCloseHibs
05-06-2018, 08:46 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

Yip, tin hat a good idea because what you've said is guff. JC has nothing to do with the team from the west. Keep it Hibs, please. Why DO people turn these stories on their heads!!

hibsbollah
05-06-2018, 08:46 PM
Regardless of whether people believed in his politics or not, Connolly was a great man who came out of the same community as Hibs, and of course many of our supporters and their families.

The Cowgate was - quite literally - beneath most of edinburgh society, and yet that community's football club has become a genuine Edinburgh institution against the odds, and a man like Connolly who is to many Irish, a figure similar to Wallace, Bruce or Bonnie Prince Charlie.

That's why I think he is worthy of respect- he is one of us, both literally and metaphorically in his journey from maligned outsider to towering historical figure.

Knowing your politics, I am glad you said that, and it demonstrates what Connolly's legacy SHOULD be, a man we should all be able to celebrate :top marks

BullsCloseHibs
05-06-2018, 08:47 PM
Regardless of whether people believed in his politics or not, Connolly was a great man who came out of the same community as Hibs, and of course many of our supporters and their families.

The Cowgate was - quite literally - beneath most of edinburgh society, and yet that community's football club has become a genuine Edinburgh institution against the odds, and a man like Connolly who is to many Irish, a figure similar to Wallace, Bruce or Bonnie Prince Charlie.

That's why I think he is worthy of respect- he is one of us, both literally and metaphorically in his journey from maligned outsider to towering historical figure.

Here here!

BullsCloseHibs
05-06-2018, 08:48 PM
:confused: What has that got to do with anything that has been said so far?

Darlington hibs will hopefully be embarrassed when /if he ever chooses to read up on JC and all he did. Bandwagon central!!

matty_f
05-06-2018, 08:49 PM
A great man.

:agree:

Eyrie
05-06-2018, 08:51 PM
I have no problem with those who want to celebrate Connolly, but this thread belongs on the Holy Ground because he was a political figure who happened to be a Hibs fan.

His actual involvement with our club was very small compared to many, many others who do not get the same level of recognition because they didn't have the same high profile political activism.

Stanton
05-06-2018, 08:53 PM
Us folk that are only interested in Hibs as a football team have got to be ejukated don't you know.
I'm sorry you feel that way it's not a smarmy attempt to Ejukate people who have no interest in such discussions but surely we can discuss someone like Connolly and those with no interest can just ignore the thread ...... I do dislike those with either no interest or no understanding of Connolly still attempting to pigeon hole him as one side of a sectarian dispute ......it is so far removed from the truth as the man was a visionary who's every move was based on attempts to remove the stain of sectarianism from Ireland and to do that required the removal of Britain who played the sectarian card there to prevent a unified independence movement against them ....a tact we are still paying the price fir to this day

Eyrie
05-06-2018, 08:54 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way it's not a smarmy attempt to Ejukate people who have no interest in such discussions but surely we can discuss someone like Connolly and those with no interest can just ignore the thread ...... I do dislike those with either no interest or no understanding of Connolly still attempting to pigeon hole him as one side of a sectarian dispute ......it is so far removed from the truth as the man was a visionary who's every move was based on attempts to remove the stain of sectarianism from Ireland and to do that required the removal of Britain who played the sectarian card there to prevent a unified independence movement against them ....a tact we are still paying the price fir to this day

Which makes Connolly a political figure and not a football figure.

This is Holy Ground stuff.

BegbieHSC
05-06-2018, 08:55 PM
Hibernian’s greatest son.

Proud to know he was a fan in his lifetime.

WhileTheChief..
05-06-2018, 08:59 PM
There will be swathes of people living in Edinburgh who won't have heard of him.

Others who aren’t interested in socialism or Irish politics probably don’t care too much about / for him.

I’d imagine that these categories above account for the vast population of Edinburgh which might go some way to explain why there’s not more recognition of him?

Maybe the majority of the city over the years has just never shared the socialist views of Connolly then and Corbyn now?!

barcahibs
05-06-2018, 09:02 PM
Hibernian’s greatest son.



Not unless he played in a cup final that I've missed somehow he isn't.

We're only two pages into this and you can already see how divisive it is.

Politics is a dangerous road for a football club to go down and I'd rather we steered well clear

Stanton
05-06-2018, 09:04 PM
Which makes Connolly a political figure and not a football figure.

This is Holy Ground stuff.
No issue with it moving to the HG .... my issue is with ignoramuses offering ill conceived inputs that are well wide of the mark and helping to perpetuate the lmyth of JC being part of some unseemly sectarian conflict rather than a non sectarian independence struggle

crash
05-06-2018, 09:11 PM
Which makes Connolly a political figure and not a football figure.

This is Holy Ground stuff.

James Connolly was a Hibs supporter. there have been countless threads about Hibs supporters on this Forum. James Connolly deserves to have a place on the Main Forum.

Eyrie
05-06-2018, 09:11 PM
No issue with it moving to the HG .... my issue is with ignoramuses offering ill conceived inputs that are well wide of the mark and helping to perpetuate the lmyth of JC being part of some unseemly sectarian conflict rather than a non sectarian independence struggle

Pity this thread wasn't started in the correct place then. I avoid the Holy Ground because of the political arguments, although I'd agree with you that these should at least be factual.

Eyrie
05-06-2018, 09:14 PM
James Connolly was a Hibs supporter. there have been countless threads about Hibs supporters on this Forum. James Connolly deserves to have a place on the Main Forum.

So what was his contribution to our club that was so special it deserves a mention on the football forum?

Keep the politics on the Holy Ground please.

speedy_gonzales
05-06-2018, 09:14 PM
I knew nothing of James Connolly until I happened across a "James Connolly" march in the early 90's.
I'm 43 now so was probably about 18 then. At the East end of Princes Street (what is now the Apple Store) the march came across a small hostile crowd, the hostile crowd had more than a few folk wearing Rangers tops and in the procession there was a few Hibs & Celtic tops.
In my naivety I thought this was like a role reversal of what you might find on the streets of Larkhall throughout the second week of July.
After a small skirmish during what was a traditionally busy Saturday afternoon up town I walked away, sightly glad of my ignorance.
The man himself might have been a great person but if 100+ years later folk are still scrapping over his birth then I'd like to be excused from the celebrations,,,,

IngolstadtHarry
05-06-2018, 09:16 PM
I was pleasantly surprised to see Stanton's thread and his educated and incisive comments here, having assumed that the 150th anniversary of Connolly's birth would pass unnoticed on Hibs.net. Connolly was, indeed, one of the greatest and most influential thinkers that Edinburgh has produced and the lack of recognition of him by the city of his birth is both incredible and scandalous.
I would urge all those who know little about his life to do some reading - especially those such as Darlington, Barca and Keekaboo who are writing from a position of profound ignorance.
Connolly's position on the Great War was that it was a war of exploitation - to be fought by working people against each other for the benefit of their masters. He was proven to be absolutely correct on this. It was his very anti-sectarianism and internationalism which made him such a danger to the imperial British state. It isn't an accident that his legacy has been suppressed by the British Establishment. Had Connolly succeeded in 1916, there would have been no Irish civil war, no Partition, no Troubles, and no need for suffragettes to sacrifice themselves.
Re-naming a stand at Easter Road in his honour would reflect the origins of the club as a non-sectarian, working class institution founded to improve the lives the underprivileged - something of which every Hibs supporter today should be proud.
As a final note here, I have to confess that I myself knew absolutely nothing about James Connolly until I was thirty years old - despite having grown up in the city of his birth. My introduction to Connolly's writings came when I found, by accident, a pamphlet in a pub in Germany, of all places, and was astounded to learn that he had been born in the Cowgate. Is this not something which we should be putting right?

Hibernia&Alba
05-06-2018, 09:20 PM
Anti-sectarian
Anti-racist
Anti-imperialist
Feminist
Trade Unionist
Anti-war campaigner

That will do for me; a man years ahead of generation.

As he said to his wife before his execution "hasn't it been a full life, Lillie, and it isn't this a fitting end"? A class act.

weecounty hibby
05-06-2018, 09:24 PM
This should probably be on the Holy Ground I suppose but can you imagine if he was instrumental in setting up the American state and freeing them from British rule would he be largely ignored in his home country? I am not from Irish decent but I can appreciate the mans contribution to society both in Ireland and in Scotland and no doubt further afield.

Dashing Bob S
05-06-2018, 09:26 PM
Anti-sectarian
Anti-racist
Anti-imperialist
Feminist
Trade Unionist
Anti-war campaigner

That will do for me; a man years ahead of (his) generation.

As he said to his wife before his execution "hasn't it been a full life, Lillie, and it isn't this a fitting end"? A class act.

I agree. To paraphrase Sir Alf Ramsay, "he was a political Martin Peters."

Forthview
05-06-2018, 09:31 PM
This should probably be on the Holy Ground I suppose but can you imagine if he was instrumental in setting up the American state and freeing them from British rule would he be largely ignored in his home country? I am not from Irish decent but I can appreciate the mans contribution to society both in Ireland and in Scotland and no doubt further afield.

I wonder how much stronger the SNP would be if he was working with them just now.

BILLYHIBS
05-06-2018, 09:32 PM
I have been to Kilmainham Gaol Dublin stonebreaking yard coldest place on earth where he was executed by the British in 1916 propped against the wall still in his stretcher. RIP

The Harp Awakes
05-06-2018, 09:50 PM
The James Connolly stand has a certain ring to it:flag:

A hero and one of our own. Happy Birthday:not worth

barcahibs
05-06-2018, 09:53 PM
I was pleasantly surprised to see Stanton's thread and his educated and incisive comments here, having assumed that the 150th anniversary of Connolly's birth would pass unnoticed on Hibs.net. Connolly was, indeed, one of the greatest and most influential thinkers that Edinburgh has produced and the lack of recognition of him by the city of his birth is both incredible and scandalous.
I would urge all those who know little about his life to do some reading - especially those such as Darlington, Barca and Keekaboo who are writing from a position of profound ignorance.
Connolly's position on the Great War was that it was a war of exploitation - to be fought by working people against each other for the benefit of their masters. He was proven to be absolutely correct on this. It was his very anti-sectarianism and internationalism which made him such a danger to the imperial British state. It isn't an accident that his legacy has been suppressed by the British Establishment. Had Connolly succeeded in 1916, there would have been no Irish civil war, no Partition, no Troubles, and no need for suffragettes to sacrifice themselves.
Re-naming a stand at Easter Road in his honour would reflect the origins of the club as a non-sectarian, working class institution founded to improve the lives the underprivileged - something of which every Hibs supporter today should be proud.
As a final note here, I have to confess that I myself knew absolutely nothing about James Connolly until I was thirty years old - despite having grown up in the city of his birth. My introduction to Connolly's writings came when I found, by accident, a pamphlet in a pub in Germany, of all places, and was astounded to learn that he had been born in the Cowgate. Is this not something which we should be putting right?

I'm not sure I've said anything on here that would reveal my personal feelings towards Connolly either for or against so I slightly resent being told I'm profoundly ignorant. As it happens I have skimmed around the issue in the past - Irish politics isn't something that particularly interests me - and I do have some personal opinions. But they've got nothing to do with Hibs or being a Hibs supporter so I'm not going to put them here.

But whether you're pro or against, it must be obvious there is a division. Any black and white, good and bad view on subjects like these are divisive.

Someone comes on here and alleges that General Sir John Maxwell was a Hibs Kid in his youth - do we name a stand after him too? Or maybe it comes out that Rudolf Hess actually flew over to Scotland because he had a season ticket in the East Stand (Hess purely chosen as an example of a prominent Nazi, so being an opposite to a prominent Marxist. See, even the fact that I'm having to caveat my attempts at humour shows the dangerous ground we're walking on.)

Note me saying divisive doesn't meant I don't agree with them - or even that I've got just one opinion on the whole grab bag of things that Connolly may or may not have believed in - just that there will certainly be some within the Hibs support who do disagree. I hate the idea of anyone being considered a 'lesser' Hibs supporter, or considered unwelcome because of political differences. Even worse that it's political differences from 100 years ago in another country. That's celtc/sevco behaviour.

CathroMustStay
05-06-2018, 09:54 PM
There will be swathes of people living in Edinburgh who won't have heard of him.

Others who aren’t interested in socialism or Irish politics probably don’t care too much about / for him.

I’d imagine that these categories above account for the vast population of Edinburgh which might go some way to explain why there’s not more recognition of him?

Maybe the majority of the city over the years has just never shared the socialist views of Connolly then and Corbyn now?!

True, sadly Edinburgh does have far more individualist, right wing, unionist "I'm all right jack" cretins than it ought to have.

ancient hibee
05-06-2018, 09:58 PM
And probably to many left wing,separist “I’m always right Jack”types as well.

NAE NOOKIE
05-06-2018, 10:05 PM
I was pleasantly surprised to see Stanton's thread and his educated and incisive comments here, having assumed that the 150th anniversary of Connolly's birth would pass unnoticed on Hibs.net. Connolly was, indeed, one of the greatest and most influential thinkers that Edinburgh has produced and the lack of recognition of him by the city of his birth is both incredible and scandalous.
I would urge all those who know little about his life to do some reading - especially those such as Darlington, Barca and Keekaboo who are writing from a position of profound ignorance.
Connolly's position on the Great War was that it was a war of exploitation - to be fought by working people against each other for the benefit of their masters. He was proven to be absolutely correct on this. It was his very anti-sectarianism and internationalism which made him such a danger to the imperial British state. It isn't an accident that his legacy has been suppressed by the British Establishment. Had Connolly succeeded in 1916, there would have been no Irish civil war, no Partition, no Troubles, and no need for suffragettes to sacrifice themselves.
Re-naming a stand at Easter Road in his honour would reflect the origins of the club as a non-sectarian, working class institution founded to improve the lives the underprivileged - something of which every Hibs supporter today should be proud.
As a final note here, I have to confess that I myself knew absolutely nothing about James Connolly until I was thirty years old - despite having grown up in the city of his birth. My introduction to Connolly's writings came when I found, by accident, a pamphlet in a pub in Germany, of all places, and was astounded to learn that he had been born in the Cowgate. Is this not something which we should be putting right?

There is more chance of Hibs naming a stand at Easter Road after Billy Connolly than James Connolly ... in fact probably more of a chance.

James Connolly was a great man, a true socialist and social hero who upheld many of the values I subscribe to myself .... there is no doubt whatsoever that if it wasn't for his involvement in the Irish revolution he would be honoured and publicly recognised in his home city far more than he is ... as many have said, if it had been the American revolution and not the Irish one there would probably be a ten foot high statue of him in Princes street.

The absolute truth, like it or not, is that James Connolly is seen as a central figure in what the vast majority of the British population see as a sectarian conflict .... they see no difference between what happened in the south over 100 years ago and what was happening in Northern Ireland all through the latter half of the 20th century. If Hibs were to make any move to officially publicly associate the club with him, to 90% of the population ( even those with no interest in football ) the club would be perceived as nailing its colours to the mast on one side of the Irish sectarian issue .... it would be an absolute public relations disaster, no matter how well or how hard the club or independent historians tried to explain the true story of who and what James Connolly was.

As a free thinking, clean living, socially responsible resident of Edinburgh any Hibs fan who wants to cajole the local authorities into affording Mr Connolly the recognition which as an important Edinburgh born historical figure he certainly deserves then by all means knock yourself out ..... If you want to drag the football club you support into a world of hurt it doesn't need then by all means use them as a vehicle for your campaign.

Kato
05-06-2018, 10:10 PM
I'm not sure I've said anything on here that would reveal my personal feelings towards Connolly either for or against so I slightly resent being told I'm profoundly ignorant. As it happens I have skimmed around the issue in the past - Irish politics isn't something that particularly interests me - and I do have some personal opinions. But they've got nothing to do with Hibs or being a Hibs supporter so I'm not going to put them here.

But whether you're pro or against, it must be obvious there is a division. Any black and white, good and bad view on subjects like these are divisive.

Someone comes on here and alleges that General Sir John Maxwell was a Hibs Kid in his youth - do we name a stand after him too? Or maybe it comes out that Rudolf Hess actually flew over to Scotland because he had a season ticket in the East Stand (Hess purely chosen as an example of a prominent Nazi, so being an opposite to a prominent Marxist. See, even the fact that I'm having to caveat my attempts at humour shows the dangerous ground we're walking on.)

Note me saying divisive doesn't meant I don't agree with them - or even that I've got just one opinion on the whole grab bag of things that Connolly may or may not have believed in - just that there will certainly be some within the Hibs support who do disagree. I hate the idea of anyone being considered a 'lesser' Hibs supporter, or considered unwelcome because of political differences. Even worse that it's political differences from 100 years ago in another country. That's celtc/sevco behaviour.

The west stand could be named after Sir Tom Farmer and then you'd have a good balance. One named after a fine socialist and great communicator alongside a community minded capitalist, both erstwhile supporters of the club. It would represent that Hibs fans are a broad church.

Kato
05-06-2018, 10:11 PM
Socialism - Stealing from the cans to give to the cants.

I think I'll pass.

Goodoh.

NAE NOOKIE
05-06-2018, 10:13 PM
The west stand could be named after Sir Tom Farmer and then you'd have a good balance. One named after a fine socialist and great communicator alongside a community minded capitalist, both erstwhile supporters of the club. It would represent that Hibs fans are a broad church.

See, bringing bloody religion into it already !!! :greengrin

One Day Soon
05-06-2018, 10:19 PM
At our wedding my best man toasted us with a James Connolly quote to end his truly excellent speech. I loved it.

Connolly was an incredible figure, remarkable for his time and of significant historical importance and influence. His association with Hibernian is fascinating and it is absolutely legitimate to discuss him on .net

This thread should be moved to the Holy Ground however.

Kato
05-06-2018, 10:20 PM
See, bringing bloody religion into it already !!! :greengrin

That's what Connolly always said. :wink:

https://mobile.twitter.com/b_mcgeever/status/1003941893456171008?p=v

SideBurns
05-06-2018, 10:27 PM
I knew nothing of James Connolly until I happened across a "James Connolly" march in the early 90's.
I'm 43 now so was probably about 18 then. At the East end of Princes Street (what is now the Apple Store) the march came across a small hostile crowd, the hostile crowd had more than a few folk wearing Rangers tops and in the procession there was a few Hibs & Celtic tops.
In my naivety I thought this was like a role reversal of what you might find on the streets of Larkhall throughout the second week of July.
After a small skirmish during what was a traditionally busy Saturday afternoon up town I walked away, sightly glad of my ignorance.
The man himself might have been a great person but if 100+ years later folk are still scrapping over his birth then I'd like to be excused from the celebrations,,,,

The Connolly march used to face attacks from Huns of both the full-fat and diet variety. Ironic, really, given the amount of marches the Orange Order think they should be allowed to undertake in this country in homage to their weird so-called celebration of freedom of expression/ religious belief.

The only justification for keeping this on here rather than the HG, imo, is the argument over whether he should be honoured as a Hibs supporter. There are only 4 stands, and one is already named; given the people who have contributed massively to this club since 1875, to suggest naming a stand after a man who was a fan & ball boy seems ridiculous. Of course, Connolly should be more prominently honoured in his home city than a small plaque under a bridge. His role as a leader in the Easter Rising means that one of Edinburgh's greatest citizens will never receive the accolades he deserves here.

The Tubs
05-06-2018, 10:30 PM
There will be swathes of people living in Edinburgh who won't have heard of him.

Others who aren’t interested in socialism or Irish politics probably don’t care too much about / for him.

I’d imagine that these categories above account for the vast population of Edinburgh which might go some way to explain why there’s not more recognition of him?

Maybe the majority of the city over the years has just never shared the socialist views of Connolly then and Corbyn now?!

And there were probably many who hadn't heard of James Clerk Maxwell or Patrick Geddes until their statues were erected.

Whilst I don't think there should be a statue of him in Edinburgh at the moment - our society hasn't developed beyond associating such figures with Scottish sectarianism - I think that knowledge of illustrious former residents can only be a good thing.

DR1875
05-06-2018, 10:36 PM
Tin hat on hear, I have read a great deal about Ireland from 1916 through to the troubles and the peace process, have worked in various cities both North and south, and my grandparents were from dublin.

As a Hibs fan we should always respect our heritage, but I don't want us to be a mini Celtc.

We are an all inclusive club no matter race, creed or religion.

Well said, keep religion out.

Squirrel 1875
05-06-2018, 11:01 PM
James Connolly is remembered here in Dublin as a hero and a martyr. He is a man that stood against British imperialism that disproportionately subjugated a certain group of working class Irish citizens.

The brutal manner of his death captured the attention of the Irish working classes, the majority of whom were catholic and (surprisingly) against independence. The treatment of the leaders of the Easter Rising soon saw to that.

His ties to hibs should be celebrated and promoted, particularly in Ireland, so that people realize who were truly the club that represented the downtrodden Irish in the UK. It certainly wasn’t the canny businessmen that set up Glasgow Celtic.

gillythehibby
05-06-2018, 11:06 PM
God Bless Connolly. A truley great Edinburgh born Socialist and Irish freedom fighter 🇳🇬🇳🇬

Vini1875
05-06-2018, 11:30 PM
His name is already on the East Stand - in the stone plaques. A hero and one of our own as has already been said.

monktonharp
05-06-2018, 11:57 PM
And probably to many left wing,separist “I’m always right Jack”types as well.oh my god

The Modfather
06-06-2018, 04:50 AM
If folk wanted to do something independently to upgrade his plaque at the Cowgate or build a statue etc no problem with that. Wouldn’t be in favour of naming a stand after him though.

Someone mentioned he has a stone at one of the stands. I think that is fitting, alongside his fellow Hibs fans. There are hundreds of people more deserving of a stand being named after them for their contributions to Hibs the football club than James Connelly IMO.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-06-2018, 04:56 AM
If folk wanted to do something independently to upgrade his plaque at the Cowgate or build a statue etc no problem with that. Wouldn’t be in favour of naming a stand after him though.

Someone mentioned he has a stone at one of the stands. I think that is fitting, alongside his fellow Hibs fans. There are hundreds of people more deserving of a stand being named after them for their contributions to Hibs the football club than James Connelly IMO.

Exactly. Big leap to calling for a stand to be named after him.

blackpoolhibs
06-06-2018, 05:38 AM
I have no problem with those who want to celebrate Connolly, but this thread belongs on the Holy Ground because he was a political figure who happened to be a Hibs fan.

His actual involvement with our club was very small compared to many, many others who do not get the same level of recognition because they didn't have the same high profile political activism.


Which makes Connolly a political figure and not a football figure.

This is Holy Ground stuff.


So what was his contribution to our club that was so special it deserves a mention on the football forum?

Keep the politics on the Holy Ground please.


There is more chance of Hibs naming a stand at Easter Road after Billy Connolly than James Connolly ... in fact probably more of a chance.

James Connolly was a great man, a true socialist and social hero who upheld many of the values I subscribe to myself .... there is no doubt whatsoever that if it wasn't for his involvement in the Irish revolution he would be honoured and publicly recognised in his home city far more than he is ... as many have said, if it had been the American revolution and not the Irish one there would probably be a ten foot high statue of him in Princes street.

The absolute truth, like it or not, is that James Connolly is seen as a central figure in what the vast majority of the British population see as a sectarian conflict .... they see no difference between what happened in the south over 100 years ago and what was happening in Northern Ireland all through the latter half of the 20th century. If Hibs were to make any move to officially publicly associate the club with him, to 90% of the population ( even those with no interest in football ) the club would be perceived as nailing its colours to the mast on one side of the Irish sectarian issue .... it would be an absolute public relations disaster, no matter how well or how hard the club or independent historians tried to explain the true story of who and what James Connolly was.

As a free thinking, clean living, socially responsible resident of Edinburgh any Hibs fan who wants to cajole the local authorities into affording Mr Connolly the recognition which as an important Edinburgh born historical figure he certainly deserves then by all means knock yourself out ..... If you want to drag the football club you support into a world of hurt it doesn't need then by all means use them as a vehicle for your campaign.

:top marksA stand named after him, FFS :faf:

I could name a hundred fans of the club who'd not deserve a stand named after them, but would deserve it more than him.

And that is ignoring our legendary players, who are too numerous to mention. :rolleyes:

Brizo
06-06-2018, 05:58 AM
A Coogate lad and Hibbie, Connolly truly is a local hero to many in the Hibs family and its quite right that his 150th anniversary should be acknowledged on here.

Connollys role in furthering workers rights both in his own city of birth, Ireland and the USA was a truly influential achievement. His central belief that the working class of all religions had more in common with each other than their masters and should work together to improve their conditions is the absolute opposite of sectarianism. He also had a healthy cynicism for organised religion, most notably when standing against his local parish priest in the Edinburgh council elections for the St Giles ward.

So when people come on here and knee jerk spout about "mini Celtic", "religion" and "sectarianism" it just shows the level of ignorance there is about him in his own city. For them id suggest having a read of "The Life and Times of James Connolly" by Desmond C Greaves which not only details his political achievements but also the abject poverty and hardship faced by the community which founded our club.

I don't think he should have a stand named after him but i do think he deserves more mainstream recognition in his own city than the plaque in the Cowgate.

heretoday
06-06-2018, 06:29 AM
Well said, keep religion out.

Hear Hear.

One Day Soon
06-06-2018, 06:49 AM
oh my god

Oh my God.

Pretty Boy
06-06-2018, 06:52 AM
Well said, keep religion out.

Has anyone actually brought religion 'in'? Apart from the 2 or 3 people demanding it be kept 'out' that is?

hibbyboy1
06-06-2018, 07:16 AM
James connelly was a freedom fighter like many before and after him. Hibs fan and folk singer Kevin gore mentions him other's in this song. https://youtu.be/YnMsX5GZKoo

green leaves
06-06-2018, 10:03 AM
anybody recommend a decent book about him and/or the events leading to Irish independence?

offshorehibby
06-06-2018, 10:20 AM
anybody recommend a decent book about him and/or the events leading to Irish independence?

The Life and Times of James Connolly: Charles Desmond Greaves

Although they're usually pretty pricey

DR1875
06-06-2018, 10:49 AM
Has anyone actually brought religion 'in'? Apart from the 2 or 3 people demanding it be kept 'out' that is?

Although his lifes work was to defend the poor and gain humanitarian and working rights for people in so much poverty his legacy will always be aligned with the Irish Catholic struggle against the British government. When they now March around with Irish flags in Edinburgh in his honour these days, people who see this only think that it the opposite of the Orange mob doing the same unfortunately and the religious connotations that it has. That's why I mentioned religion and to remove it from the clubs forward thinking attitudes.

Pretty Boy
06-06-2018, 11:14 AM
Although his lifes work was to defend the poor and gain humanitarian and working rights for people in so much poverty his legacy will always be aligned with the Irish Catholic struggle against the British government. When they now March around with Irish flags in Edinburgh in his honour these days, people who see this only think that it the opposite of the Orange mob doing the same unfortunately and the religious connotations that it has. That's why I mentioned religion and to remove it from the clubs forward thinking attitudes.

Do the JCS still march? Genuine question as I was under the impression they had decided to stop marching a few years back and now have a small gathering each year in the Cowgate.

I know there are a few Republican flute bands still try to get out and annoy people around this time but I don't think they are 'official'.

gillythehibby
06-06-2018, 11:34 AM
A Coogate lad and Hibbie, Connolly truly is a local hero to many in the Hibs family and its quite right that his 150th anniversary should be acknowledged on here.

Connollys role in furthering workers rights both in his own city of birth, Ireland and the USA was a truly influential achievement. His central belief that the working class of all religions had more in common with each other than their masters and should work together to improve their conditions is the absolute opposite of sectarianism. He also had a healthy cynicism for organised religion, most notably when standing against his local parish priest in the Edinburgh council elections for the St Giles ward.

So when people come on here and knee jerk spout about "mini Celtic", "religion" and "sectarianism" it just shows the level of ignorance there is about him in his own city. For them id suggest having a read of "The Life and Times of James Connolly" by Desmond C Greaves which not only details his political achievements but also the abject poverty and hardship faced by the community which founded our club.

I don't think he should have a stand named after him but i do think he deserves more mainstream recognition in his own city than the plaque in the Cowgate.

This. Excellent post 👍🇳🇬

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 11:34 AM
anybody recommend a decent book about him and/or the events leading to Irish independence?

Here is a link to the new edition of Greaves - not expensive at all. ;-)


http://www.calton-books.co.uk/books/the-life-and-times-of-james-connolly-new-edition-c-desmond-greaves/

Stokesy's on fire
06-06-2018, 11:39 AM
I think there is currently a movie being made about JC and i cant wait to see it.

chinaman
06-06-2018, 12:08 PM
One of our own !

Keith_M
06-06-2018, 12:11 PM
....
I would urge all those who know little about his life to do some reading - especially those such as Darlington, Barca and Keekaboo who are writing from a position of profound ignorance.
....


OK, and I would encourage you to read what I actually wrote in my comment. I said nothing disparaging whatsoever about Connolly or anything he stood for.

I made the point that I'd rather we recognized those who made a major contribution to Hibs, for football reasons, rather than get involved in the divisive politics of Ireland and leave that to the fans of Rangers and Celtc.

I'm sorry if you're so small minded that you can't accept other people's views but that's mine, whether you like it or not.

Allant1981
06-06-2018, 12:17 PM
I think there is currently a movie being made about JC and i cant wait to see it.

sure ive seen one already, liam neeson possibly starring in it

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 12:21 PM
OK, and I would encourage you to read what I actually wrote in my comment. I said nothing disparaging whatsoever about Connolly or anything he stood for.

I made the point that I'd rather we recognized those who made a major contribution to Hibs, for football reasons, rather than get involved in the divisive politics of Ireland and leave that to the fans of Rangers and Celtc.

I'm sorry if you're so small minded that you can't accept other people's views but that's mine, whether you like it or not.

That shows me that you know absolutely zilch about Connolly.
Connolly was an internationalist who wished to spread socialism to the entire world. He specifically said that Irish independence, achieved without the establishment of a socialist republic, would merely be transferring the 'ownership' of the workers from one set of landlords to another. Drop what you've been told about Connolly, drop the knee-jerking, and read a book.

AndyM_1875
06-06-2018, 12:47 PM
I have been to Kilmainham Gaol Dublin stonebreaking yard coldest place on earth where he was executed by the British in 1916 propped against the wall still in his stretcher. RIP

I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 12:52 PM
I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.



Absolutely right - something that Connolly fought against with his whole being.

barcahibs
06-06-2018, 12:55 PM
That shows me that you know absolutely zilch about Connolly.
Connolly was an internationalist who wished to spread socialism to the entire world. He specifically said that Irish independence, achieved without the establishment of a socialist republic, would merely be transferring the 'ownership' of the workers from one set of landlords to another. Drop what you've been told about Connolly, drop the knee-jerking, and read a book.

You don't think Irish politics within the context of football in Scotland is divisive... Have you been to Scotland before?

This is the whole point. You have one view of Connolly, it's clearly important to you, to the extant that you're happy to insult fellow Hibs fans who don't share it.

The fact is that your views on the political figure that is James Connolly are your views and your opinions, you're 100% entitled to them, many Hibs fans will share some or all of them, but they're just your views. Many other Hibs fans will disagree - which shouldnt ever prevent them being welcome at Easter Road.

There is no such thing as historical fact. What if someone comes on here and questions Connolly's views on mass democtacy? The morality of launching a violent revolution when he did not enjoy the popular support of the Irish people? His views on the tens of thousands of Irishmen who fought for the British army in the Great war?

What if they recommended Sean O’Callaghan’s James Connolly: My Search for the Man, the Myth and His Legacy which links Connolly with fanaticism, hatred and "lust for revenge".

You don't see how any of that could be divisive? Centuries old Irish politics have done enough to damage football in this country without dragging us into it.

Ps for the avoidance of doubt i am not claiming to support any of the views above. I'm not interested enough in Irish politics to really care. But plenty of other people do support them and their historical and political views are just as valid as yours within the contect of a football stadium.

green leaves
06-06-2018, 01:03 PM
Here is a link to the new edition of Greaves - not expensive at all. ;-)


http://www.calton-books.co.uk/books/the-life-and-times-of-james-connolly-new-edition-c-desmond-greaves/


thanks,is there a kindle edition?

One Day Soon
06-06-2018, 01:05 PM
I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.


Along with thousands of other working class people from all over Britain.

This thread is screaming for the Holy Ground.

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 01:08 PM
thanks,is there a kindle edition?

Check on the Connolly Association Facebook page - they should have all the info.

offshorehibby
06-06-2018, 01:08 PM
Do the JCS still march? Genuine question as I was under the impression they had decided to stop marching a few years back and now have a small gathering each year in the Cowgate.

I know there are a few Republican flute bands still try to get out and annoy people around this time but I don't think they are 'official'.

They still commemorate every year where the plaque is. They took the decision around the time of the good Friday agreement that it would inappropriate to hold the marches. The JCS are still strongly supported in the Edinburgh area.
http://www.jamesconnollysociety.com/

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 01:15 PM
You don't think Irish politics within the context of football in Scotland is divisive... Have you been to Scotland before?

This is the whole point. You have one view of Connolly, it's clearly important to you, to the extant that you're happy to insult fellow Hibs fans who don't share it.

The fact is that your views on the political figure that is James Connolly are your views and your opinions, you're 100% entitled to them, many Hibs fans will share some or all of them, but they're just your views. Many other Hibs fans will disagree - which shouldnt ever prevent them being welcome at Easter Road.

There is no such thing as historical fact. What if someone comes on here and questions Connolly's views on mass democtacy? The morality of launching a violent revolution when he did not enjoy the popular support of the Irish people? His views on the tens of thousands of Irishmen who fought for the British army in the Great war?

What if they recommended Sean O’Callaghan’s James Connolly: My Search for the Man, the Myth and His Legacy which links Connolly with fanaticism, hatred and "lust for revenge".

You don't see how any of that could be divisive? Centuries old Irish politics have done enough to damage football in this country without dragging us into it.

Ps for the avoidance of doubt i am not claiming to support any of the views above. I'm not interested enough in Irish politics to really care. But plenty of other people do support them and their historical and political views are just as valid as yours within the contect of a football stadium.

Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

WhileTheChief..
06-06-2018, 01:26 PM
And there were probably many who hadn't heard of James Clerk Maxwell or Patrick Geddes until their statues were erected.

I’ve never heard of either of those names and had no idea that there are statues for them.

As for naming a stand after Connolly, that will rightly never happen. He may be an important figure to some people but not nearly enough.

There aren’t that many socialists into Irish republicanism that support Hibs!

One Day Soon
06-06-2018, 01:32 PM
Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

Perhaps because James Connolly is inextricably linked to Ireland, Irish history and - in this context - football? If he wasn't we probably wouldn't be discussing him at all.

Albanian Hibs
06-06-2018, 01:42 PM
One of our own !

One of my family's own as well 💚

barcahibs
06-06-2018, 01:51 PM
Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

Yeah... See, again with the insults to someone who may (or may not, you still don't know) disagree with you. Which leaves me biting my tongue not to send an insult back. To a fellow Hibs fan, over politics (and ok we can pretend this isn't about Irish politics if you like but even then there are many, many Hibs fans who don't believe in Socialism, Marxism, Internationalism - you name it ism).

If you don't want to see it that's fine. But yiur hero isn't everyone's hero. If the Connolly society (or the Margaret Thatcher society come to that) want to build a football stadium and name a stand after him (or her) then brilliant.

But not at Easter Road where political opinions should be irrelevant.

CMurdoch
06-06-2018, 02:32 PM
Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.

ancient hibee
06-06-2018, 02:52 PM
Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.
:top marks

Fanforlife
06-06-2018, 02:54 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way it's not a smarmy attempt to Ejukate people who have no interest in such discussions but surely we can discuss someone like Connolly and those with no interest can just ignore the thread ...... I do dislike those with either no interest or no understanding of Connolly still attempting to pigeon hole him as one side of a sectarian dispute ......it is so far removed from the truth as the man was a visionary who's every move was based on attempts to remove the stain of sectarianism from Ireland and to do that required the removal of Britain who played the sectarian card there to prevent a unified independence movement against them ....a tact we are still paying the price fir to this dayGreat post.Encapsulates the very essence of a Great Man.😀

Iggy Pope
06-06-2018, 02:58 PM
One of my family's own as well 💚

:greengrin

Iggy Pope
06-06-2018, 03:06 PM
I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.


Kilmainhim is an interesting and very eerie visit. I haven't been in nearly 30 years but it is a desperate surrounding to imagine.

Binding a man to a chair in order to shoot him, a man who couldn't stand unsupported, broken at the feet with no medical treatment, sums up more than the stupidity of our of our nation. It speaks volumes of our absolute cowardice.
And for what it's worth, I think the stand naming suggestion was probably tongue-in-cheek. However, I'd rename the Cowgate instead. A statue is probably the very least that Edinburgh should be considering.

NAE NOOKIE
06-06-2018, 03:15 PM
A Coogate lad and Hibbie, Connolly truly is a local hero to many in the Hibs family and its quite right that his 150th anniversary should be acknowledged on here.

Connollys role in furthering workers rights both in his own city of birth, Ireland and the USA was a truly influential achievement. His central belief that the working class of all religions had more in common with each other than their masters and should work together to improve their conditions is the absolute opposite of sectarianism. He also had a healthy cynicism for organised religion, most notably when standing against his local parish priest in the Edinburgh council elections for the St Giles ward.

So when people come on here and knee jerk spout about "mini Celtic", "religion" and "sectarianism" it just shows the level of ignorance there is about him in his own city. For them id suggest having a read of "The Life and Times of James Connolly" by Desmond C Greaves which not only details his political achievements but also the abject poverty and hardship faced by the community which founded our club.

I don't think he should have a stand named after him but i do think he deserves more mainstream recognition in his own city than the plaque in the Cowgate.

I don't think anybody theorising that Hibs commemorating James Connolly would be bad for the club is doing that based on their ignorance of Connolly or of the social deprivation that spawned him and the club. Its not our ( in your words ) ignorance of Irish political history, the social history of Edinburgh or James Connolly himself that would be the problem, its the public perception of Connolly or any other prominent figure in the history of Irish republicanism which would be the problem ...... any move by Hibs to commemorate Connolly in any official way would result in the club being seen to align itself publicly to the cause of a united Ireland .... if that preception displays an ignorance of the subject by the population at large that is indeed a shame, but it still wont help Hibs when the inevitable backlash occurs. If you don't think there would be one then you are deluding yourself.

Take my word for it .... Hibs being seen as getting involved in religion, sectarianism and being painted a 'mini Celtic' would be exactly what would happen and no matter how wrong such accusations would be they would be inevitable and even if just some of the mud stuck it would damage our club .... in view of that no matter how noble it would be to ignore the nay sayers and do it anyway its something anybody with the good of Hibernian football club at heart just cant want the club to get involved in.

green leaves
06-06-2018, 03:41 PM
Check on the Connolly Association Facebook page - they should have all the info.



thanks

Brizo
06-06-2018, 03:52 PM
I don't think anybody theorising that Hibs commemorating James Connolly would be bad for the club is doing that based on their ignorance of Connolly or of the social deprivation that spawned him and the club. Its not our ( in your words ) ignorance of Irish political history, the social history of Edinburgh or James Connolly himself that would be the problem, its the public perception of Connolly or any other prominent figure in the history of Irish republicanism which would be the problem ...... any move by Hibs to commemorate Connolly in any official way would result in the club being seen to align itself publicly to the cause of a united Ireland .... if that preception displays an ignorance of the subject by the population at large that is indeed a shame, but it still wont help Hibs when the inevitable backlash occurs. If you don't think there would be one then you are deluding yourself.

Take my word for it .... Hibs being seen as getting involved in religion, sectarianism and being painted a 'mini Celtic' would be exactly what would happen and no matter how wrong such accusations would be they would be inevitable and even if just some of the mud stuck it would damage our club .... in view of that no matter how noble it would be to ignore the nay sayers and do it anyway its something anybody with the good of Hibernian football club at heart just cant want the club to get involved in.

Nowhere in my post did I make any assertion that Hibernian FC should formally associate themselves with James Connolly in any way so maybe you should read my post again :confused:

In fact I quite clearly said in my final sentence was that I wouldn't want to see a stand named after him which had been suggested by some posters. What I did say was that as a son of the Coogate and a Hibs fan it was quite fitting that his anniversary be acknowledged on dot net. That is a totally different thing from what you are implying I said !

i have absolutely no interest in Hibernian FC acknowledging James Connolly in any way, shape or form but I do think that he deserves to be commemorated by the City of Edinburgh to a far greater degree than he has been. Unfortunately the default position of so many when Connolly is mentioned is the stereotyped nonsense that some on here have been guilty of and so its highly unlikely to happen.

I hope this is clear enough for you to understand !

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 04:10 PM
Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.

You are obviously not an admin because in such a case you wouldn't have found the time to obsessively stalk the posts of other members.
I am generally a reader rather than a writer and am grateful (as a Hibby living abroad) to have been generously helped by Edinburgh-based fellow-members who have neither questioned my loyalty to the club nor trawled through my posts before offering their assisstance. Even though I don't live in Scotland, I have as much right as you to express my political opinions, ask about streams, enquire about tickets or anything else which is within the rules set by the administrators of this site. So don't try to tell me where to go or whom to leave alone, son.

Stanton
06-06-2018, 04:28 PM
Although his lifes work was to defend the poor and gain humanitarian and working rights for people in so much poverty his legacy will always be aligned with the Irish Catholic struggle against the British government. When they now March around with Irish flags in Edinburgh in his honour these days, people who see this only think that it the opposite of the Orange mob doing the same unfortunately and the religious connotations that it has. That's why I mentioned religion and to remove it from the clubs forward thinking attitudes.

Not having a go at you personally here my friend but once again here lies the myth and ignorance of Irelands desire for self determination. It is not and never has been an Irish Catholic struggle. There was a struggle forcatholic emancipation and the discontinuation of the catholic penal laws in Ireland but that was a generally peaceful mass movement under Daniel O'Connell and not geared towards independence , purely geared towards law change and equality for Catholics.

Irelands struggle for independence has NEVER been linked to Catholicism. Prominent Protestants have featured and played most important roles throughout. In fact the RC church was often at odds and in dispute with physical force Republicans.
Prominent Protestants fighting for Ireland against Britain included, Theobald Wolfe-Tone , Robert Emmet , Bulmer Hobson , Countess Markievicz , Jack White ( Deputy to Connolly in the Irish citizen Army ) , Roger Casement ( executed 1916 ) , Robert erskine Childers , Robert Barton , Ernest Blythe , Sam Maguire ( the GAA play each year for the Sam Maguire cup ) , Douglas Hyde ( first president of the Irish Republic ) .....even up to the more recent conflict , Protestants killed fighting on the Irish Republican side include David Russell , John Turnley , Ronnie Bunting , Noel Lyttle and Tom Berry.

Highlighting this fact doesn't fit in with the " sectarian narrative " we are fed by our media.

Eyrie
06-06-2018, 04:30 PM
This thread has plenty of praise for Connolly's admirable commitment to socialism and Irish independence but no football discussion.

So at what point will the admins actually move it to the Holy Ground as a number of posters (including myself and several who have praised Connolly) have requested? Or answer those requests with an explanation of why it is still here?

Golden Bear
06-06-2018, 04:34 PM
This thread has plenty of praise for Connolly's admirable commitment to socialism and Irish independence but no football discussion.

So at what point will the admins actually move it to the Holy Ground as a number of posters (including myself and several who have praised Connolly) have requested? Or answer those requests with an explanation of why it is still here?

:agree:

Well said that man. I've just logged on and I'm disappointed that this particular thread hasn't been sent to the political forum where it certainly belongs.

Stanton
06-06-2018, 04:36 PM
One of my family's own as well 💚
The excellent sports writer and columnist ( and Edinburgh born and bred Hibs fan ) the late Ian Bell was James Connolly's grand nephew

Stanton
06-06-2018, 04:39 PM
I don't think anybody theorising that Hibs commemorating James Connolly would be bad for the club is doing that based on their ignorance of Connolly or of the social deprivation that spawned him and the club. Its not our ( in your words ) ignorance of Irish political history, the social history of Edinburgh or James Connolly himself that would be the problem, its the public perception of Connolly or any other prominent figure in the history of Irish republicanism which would be the problem ...... any move by Hibs to commemorate Connolly in any official way would result in the club being seen to align itself publicly to the cause of a united Ireland .... if that preception displays an ignorance of the subject by the population at large that is indeed a shame, but it still wont help Hibs when the inevitable backlash occurs. If you don't think there would be one then you are deluding yourself.

Take my word for it .... Hibs being seen as getting involved in religion, sectarianism and being painted a 'mini Celtic' would be exactly what would happen and no matter how wrong such accusations would be they would be inevitable and even if just some of the mud stuck it would damage our club .... in view of that no matter how noble it would be to ignore the nay sayers and do it anyway its something anybody with the good of Hibernian football club at heart just cant want the club to get involved in.
I don't truly believe anyone seriously thinks it will be good idea to link the club to Connolly .....but the city should ( and will eventually though it's taking too long ) commemorate a political giant overlooked for far too long

CMurdoch
06-06-2018, 04:53 PM
You are obviously not an admin because in such a case you wouldn't have found the time to obsessively stalk the posts of other members.
I am generally a reader rather than a writer and am grateful (as a Hibby living abroad) to have been generously helped by Edinburgh-based fellow-members who have neither questioned my loyalty to the club nor trawled through my posts before offering their assisstance. Even though I don't live in Scotland, I have as much right as you to express my political opinions, ask about streams, enquire about tickets or anything else which is within the rules set by the administrators of this site. So don't try to tell me where to go or whom to leave alone, son.

Firstly, i am not your son. Yet another of your attempts to talk down to folk. Not very socialist of you.
As for trawling your posts. You have only made 32 posts in the last 5 years so it was more of a glance than a trawl.

Politics should be kept to the Holy Ground.
Maybe just for a wee change you could talk about football on this football forum.

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 04:54 PM
:agree:

Well said that man. I've just logged on and I'm disappointed that this particular thread hasn't been sent to the political forum where it certainly belongs.

Why keep clicking on it if it offends you?
If the local newsagent carries the Sun and I know that I don't like it, it would be foolish of me to keep leafing through it, 'nursing my wrath to keep it warm', so to speak.;-)

The Pointer
06-06-2018, 05:06 PM
Along with thousands of other working class people from all over Britain.

This thread is screaming for the Holy Ground.

And thousands of non 'working clas' Scots. Have a look at War Memorials in any town or village in the country.

Keith_M
06-06-2018, 05:11 PM
That shows me that you know absolutely zilch about Connolly.
Connolly was an internationalist who wished to spread socialism to the entire world. He specifically said that Irish independence, achieved without the establishment of a socialist republic, would merely be transferring the 'ownership' of the workers from one set of landlords to another. Drop what you've been told about Connolly, drop the knee-jerking, and read a book.


I'm sure he was a fantastic guy but, whether you like it or not, he is very much remembered for his part in the Irish struggle for independence and I don't think Hibs as a club would be wise to get involved in what I'm sure you already know fine well is an irritatingly divisive subject in certain parts of Scottish Football.

Also, at no point did I make any 'knee jerk' reactions and I find it telling you've had to resort to jibes at other posters that don't share your point of view

Keith_M
06-06-2018, 05:15 PM
I don't truly believe anyone seriously thinks it will be good idea to link the club to Connolly .....but the city should ( and will eventually though it's taking too long ) commemorate a political giant overlooked for far too long


I would have no problem with that, if it's what they choose to do.

One Day Soon
06-06-2018, 05:41 PM
And thousands of non 'working clas' Scots. Have a look at War Memorials in any town or village in the country.

Indeed. True all across the UK.

One Day Soon
06-06-2018, 05:45 PM
You are obviously not an admin because in such a case you wouldn't have found the time to obsessively stalk the posts of other members.
I am generally a reader rather than a writer and am grateful (as a Hibby living abroad) to have been generously helped by Edinburgh-based fellow-members who have neither questioned my loyalty to the club nor trawled through my posts before offering their assisstance. Even though I don't live in Scotland, I have as much right as you to express my political opinions, ask about streams, enquire about tickets or anything else which is within the rules set by the administrators of this site. So don't try to tell me where to go or whom to leave alone, son.

'obsessively stalk' :rolleyes:

You've only got 33 posts mate, it takes about a minute to look at what interests you. Hardly either a weird or difficult thing to do to try and see where someone is coming from generally.

Islington Hibs
06-06-2018, 06:29 PM
Son of Irish immigrants
Childhood Hibs fan
Socialist
trade union organiser
writer and thinker
leader of the Irish Citizen Army raised to resist the police brutality aimed at the workers during the Dublin lockout of 1913
Signatory of the proclamation of Irish Independence
revolutionary and soldier
executed tied to a chair in 1916 for his role in the Easter Rising

Irish National Hero
Hero of the Working Class
largely ignored in his home city :confused:

well it just shows what abroad church we Hibbies are. Diverse and all that

taking your list form the top

British
Childhood Hibs fan :wink:
Tory
Free Marketeer
writer and thinker :wink:
supporter of No
revolution is not for me
gosh no death penalty please

If Scotland not playing happy to support England at World Cup, but also more than happy for the Irish to do well against non home teams
Working class? That's a bit 1950's ain'it

yes largely ignored by his home city!!!
..

vercol36
06-06-2018, 06:54 PM
I don't think Hibs as a club would be wise to get involved in what I'm sure you already know fine well is an irritatingly divisive subject in certain parts of Scottish Football.



I get your point to a degree, though surely the Irish revolution is not what divides parts of Scotland?! You won't get many Scots saying that the entire island should still be under British dominion! The part of Scottish culture that seems divisive to me is the obsession with British Northern Ireland and the religious divide.

NAE NOOKIE
06-06-2018, 07:15 PM
Nowhere in my post did I make any assertion that Hibernian FC should formally associate themselves with James Connolly in any way so maybe you should read my post again :confused:

In fact I quite clearly said in my final sentence was that I wouldn't want to see a stand named after him which had been suggested by some posters. What I did say was that as a son of the Coogate and a Hibs fan it was quite fitting that his anniversary be acknowledged on dot net. That is a totally different thing from what you are implying I said !

i have absolutely no interest in Hibernian FC acknowledging James Connolly in any way, shape or form but I do think that he deserves to be commemorated by the City of Edinburgh to a far greater degree than he has been. Unfortunately the default position of so many when Connolly is mentioned is the stereotyped nonsense that some on here have been guilty of and so its highly unlikely to happen.

I hope this is clear enough for you to understand !

I never suggested that you did, most of my post was a reiteration of my own opinion on the matter, not a direct response to your post. The only part where I am directly addressing what you said is where you assert that a lot of the opinions being expressed are based on an ignorance of the subject matter, which in my opinion is not the case, and certainly isn't the case when it comes to me.

As for your last sentence .... nae need for it mate I understood your post just fine, I just didn't agree with all of it ..ok? :aok:

IngolstadtHarry
06-06-2018, 07:23 PM
'obsessively stalk' :rolleyes:

You've only got 33 posts mate, it takes about a minute to look at what interests you. Hardly either a weird or difficult thing to do to try and see where someone is coming from generally.

What I'd like to know is WHY you are so interested, firstly in counting them, and secondly in examining their content.
Bit weird, if you ask me.
Anything else you'd like to tell us about your 'hobbies', mate?

blackpoolhibs
06-06-2018, 07:28 PM
My grandad and mother were born in the cowgate too, both bigger Hibs fans than Connolly ever was.

WhileTheChief..
06-06-2018, 07:32 PM
^^Name a couple of stands after them :cb

blackpoolhibs
06-06-2018, 07:37 PM
^^Name a couple of stands after them :cb


Nah, they dont deserve that accolade, there are much more deserving players for that honour. :wink:

Keith_M
06-06-2018, 07:41 PM
My grandad and mother were born in the cowgate too, both bigger Hibs fans than Connolly ever was.


Billy was a Partick Thistle fan..... allegedly.

Keith_M
06-06-2018, 07:43 PM
What I'd like to know is WHY you are so interested, firstly in counting them, and secondly in examining their content.
Bit weird, if you ask me.
Anything else you'd like to tell us about your 'hobbies', mate?


Maybe he's a member of the Illuminati as well


:wink:

Kato
06-06-2018, 07:47 PM
Not having a go at you personally here my friend but once again here lies the myth and ignorance of Irelands desire for self determination. It is not and never has been an Irish Catholic struggle. There was a struggle forcatholic emancipation and the discontinuation of the catholic penal laws in Ireland but that was a generally peaceful mass movement under Daniel O'Connell and not geared towards independence , purely geared towards law change and equality for Catholics.

Irelands struggle for independence has NEVER been linked to Catholicism. Prominent Protestants have featured and played most important roles throughout. In fact the RC church was often at odds and in dispute with physical force Republicans.
Prominent Protestants fighting for Ireland against Britain included, Theobald Wolfe-Tone , Robert Emmet , Bulmer Hobson , Countess Markievicz , Jack White ( Deputy to Connolly in the Irish citizen Army ) , Roger Casement ( executed 1916 ) , Robert erskine Childers , Robert Barton , Ernest Blythe , Sam Maguire ( the GAA play each year for the Sam Maguire cup ) , Douglas Hyde ( first president of the Irish Republic ) .....even up to the more recent conflict , Protestants killed fighting on the Irish Republican side include David Russell , John Turnley , Ronnie Bunting , Noel Lyttle and Tom Berry.

Highlighting this fact doesn't fit in with the " sectarian narrative " we are fed by our media.

Well put. The religion stuff is a smokescreen as the actual reasons for struggle are all too real.

Brizo
06-06-2018, 07:50 PM
I never suggested that you did, most of my post was a reiteration of my own opinion on the matter, not a direct response to your post. The only part where I am directly addressing what you said is where you assert that a lot of the opinions being expressed are based on an ignorance of the subject matter, which in my opinion is not the case, and certainly isn't the case when it comes to me.

As for your last sentence .... nae need for it mate I understood your post just fine, I just didn't agree with all of it ..ok? :aok:

I think you read what you wanted to read not what I actually wrote and I think you are trying to dig yourself out of a bit of a hole now.:aok: