The Kirius Lesson

[Dashing Bob S]

For all the financial doping and Craig Thomson, the real difference between Hibs and Hearts in that era was probably Zibi/Clown. A major indictment of both clubs.

[Forza Fred]

For all the financial doping and Craig Thomson, the real difference between Hibs and Hearts in that era was probably Zibi/Clown. A major indictment of both clubs.

You have to wonder why Mowbray extended his contract when everybody knew he was a howler....

[IGRIGI]

I've never went as radio rental at a player as I did at Zibbi when he threw in a couple of goals vs Hearts in that semi final.

[Captain Trips]

I've never went as radio rental at a player as I did at Zibbi when he threw in a couple of goals vs Hearts in that semi final.

The position of him for Hartley freekick was shocking. I think the whole stadium knew that was going in.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The position of him for Hartley freekick was shocking. I think the whole stadium knew that was going in.

:agree: there was another one when he came running off his line with no chance of getting to the ball. I was out of my chair and halfway down the stairs by the time Hartley had went round him and scored.

Worst keeper I’ve ever seen.

[Captain Trips]

:agree: there was another one when he came running off his line with no chance of getting to the ball. I was out of my chair and halfway down the stairs by the time Hartley had went wound him and scored.

Worst keeper I’ve ever seen.

Again the decision making was shocking as was the execution of them.

[calumhibee1]

The thing with the goalie last night, which was the same with Zibi, was that you knew once he’d made one mistake that he’d make another. Keepers like that don’t just make one mistake, they can’t get over it and they lose you the game.

[lyonhibs]

At least spell the poor bloke's name right - Karius.

What an abysmal night for him though - shows the raw cruelty of being a keeper. If a striker fluffs a chance or a midfielder misplaces a pass, there's no instant impact on the "goals against" column for their own team.

Same can't be said for a goalie. Instant punishment and he's probably played his last game for Liverpool I'd say.

[BILLYHIBS]

The thing with the goalie last night, which was the same with Zibi, was that you knew once he’d made one mistake that he’d make another. Keepers like that don’t just make one mistake, they can’t get over it and they lose you the game.
Agree 100% Better getting rid. Wonder where I have heard that before?

:top marks

[AgentDaleCooper]

I always thought that if we'd held onto daniel anderson and matt doumbe we would have been pushing for second between 2004-07

[stantonhibby]

:agree: there was another one when he came running off his line with no chance of getting to the ball. I was out of my chair and halfway down the stairs by the time Hartley had went round him and scored.

Worst keeper I’ve ever seen.

Arguably his worst game was against them at ER. 2-0 and cruising approaching half time (think zemmamma scored the first) and he decides to get involved. Comes right out to the edge of his box and is beaten to a high ball by a Velicka header. Lost a poor goal at his near post in the 2nd half. 2-2.

[Scouse Hibee]

Has dropped the A from his name too.

[BILLYHIBS]

I always thought that if we'd held onto daniel anderson and matt doumbe we would have been pushing for second between 2004-07
Anderson and Doumbe two very good players. Zibi without doubt our worst ever keeper just edges out Makalamity. As OP states makes you wonder where we would be if we held onto both these players it can also be said that if we had held onto all our players we would have won the Scottish Cup long before we did and no doubt would have been in the running for the Champions League. Just typical HIBS.As my old man used to say and the old mentality was the only thing that could be relied upon is the fact that they HIBS would always let you down.

GGTTH

[zlatan]

Arguably his worst game was against them at ER. 2-0 and cruising approaching half time (think zemmamma scored the first) and he decides to get involved. Comes right out to the edge of his box and is beaten to a high ball by a Velicka header. Lost a poor goal at his near post in the 2nd half. 2-2.

Yup. Thought we were on for a DVD worthy scoreline up until that first goal.

[snooky]

Why blame Zibi? The guy probably tried his best. When using the word "clown" I suggest we point at who signed him AND gave him an extension to his contract.
Re the semi, Zibi was also at fault for (I think it was) the last goal when Gary Smith was sent off for having to bring down a Hearts player. Zibi had plenty of time to come out and pick up the through ball but stayed rooted on his line.

Anecdote: As we were walking out at FT, I ended up standing next to Scott Brown. I said "When are we going to sign a decent keeper?" He replied "Tell me about it".

[Northernhibee]

With both Zibi and Karius last night there's a difference between a striker fluffing a chance or a defender missing a tackle. Neither mistake was under any pressure and both mistakes would have left the keepers disappointed at under 13s level.

Jason Cummings was singled out for his open goal miss last season from three yards because a footballer of any level shouldn't make those mistakes.

I feel for the rest of the Liverpool team who no doubt dreamt of being champions of Europe when they were young being let down by a very well paid individual not being able to keep concentration in what is supposed to be their job, just like Zibi should never have claimed a wage from us.

If you're not up to it, find something else to do or step down to your level.

[SChibs]

Don't see what good cruxifying the guy is gonna do. He's made a mistake, not on purpose and it happens so everybody should just move on.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm maybe on my own here, and of course Zibi made some howlers against them, but i didn't think he was that bad a keeper apart from when we seemed to play them.

He had some very good games for us, but seemed to have a mental block whenever we trotted out against the diets.

Make as many mistakes as he did against that lot, and you are never going to get much support from the fans.

[Johnny_Leith]

Obviously karius isn't good enough, and two of last night's goals were criminal at literally any level of football.

I feel sorry for him though, he's blatantly not been good enough all season and it's a mystery as to why he's not been replaced and why he's picked.

Zibi was the same boat.

[Chic Murray]

Don't see what good cruxifying the guy is gonna do. He's made a mistake, not on purpose and it happens so everybody should just move on.

Whenever I see mistakes like those, I tend to think "irregular betting patterns". Usually unfairly, but I was a bit surprised that not one team mate came to console the guy at the end.

[My_Wife_Camille]

I'm maybe on my own here, and of course Zibi made some howlers against them, but i didn't think he was that bad a keeper apart from when we seemed to play them.

He had some very good games for us, but seemed to have a mental block whenever we trotted out against the diets.

Make as many mistakes as he did against that lot, and you are never going to get much support from the fans.
I agree with this, said it loads before too. Oxley had a catalogue of shockers that we’re just as bad as Zibi but were all forgotten about fairly quickly as they weren’t against Hearts

[tamig]

I'm maybe on my own here, and of course Zibi made some howlers against them, but i didn't think he was that bad a keeper apart from when we seemed to play them.

He had some very good games for us, but seemed to have a mental block whenever we trotted out against the diets.

Make as many mistakes as he did against that lot, and you are never going to get much support from the fans.
It did just seem to be a problem against hertz. In the Ivan game against the hun he was outstanding.

[MWHIBBIES]

I agree with this, said it loads before too. Oxley had a catalogue of shockers that we’re just as bad as Zibi but were all forgotten about fairly quickly as they weren’t against Hearts

Can you forget something that didn't happen? He was no where near as bad but you keep trying to convince us 😂

[Bishop Hibee]

I said before the game that the Liverpool keeper and whoever played alongside Van Dijk were the weak links. To be fair to Lovren, he played well. Karius made the sort of errors a poor 5-a-side keeper would make. Big Marv likened it to the time he played in goals!

As for Zibi, poor keeper. Makalamby and Simon Brown were dire too. Done to death on here but a decent keeper like Marciano would have gained us another 10-12 points a season under Mowbray.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Can you forget something that didn't happen? He was no where near as bad but you keep trying to convince us 😂
The fact you say it didn’t happen proves that you’ve forgotten

[The Leith Dutch]

I've never went as radio rental at a player as I did at Zibbi when he threw in a couple of goals vs Hearts in that semi final.

There was a point when I started to think that training for the keepers at Hibs involved diving to one side and knocking the ball loose to about 2 yards out dead centre to the now open goal. There was just no way they could do it that consistently without practice.

[stu in nottingham]

Obviously karius isn't good enough, and two of last night's goals were criminal at literally any level of football.

I feel sorry for him though, he's blatantly not been good enough all season and it's a mystery as to why he's not been replaced and why he's picked.

Zibi was the same boat.

I've never understood this type of thing either. For me, the goalie is at least as important as any player in the team and yet time after time in history we see goalies who are not nearly up the standard of their teammates - in some stellar teams too. It would probably split opinion but I never felt Grobbelaar was good enough for that Liverpool team. Likewise going back some time, Sprake at Leeds, Wilson at Arsenal and many more. Man Utd persevered with Gary Bailey for almost 300 games whilst Forest signed Shilton for £250,000 and won the League and European Cups.

I liked Mowbray's managership at Easter Road but he definitely had that same blind spot where goalies are concerned and it cost Hibs.

[Betty Boop]

So much for 'You'll Never Walk Alone' eh . Can't believe none of his team mates or coaching staff went over when he was on his knees sobbing. The guys a human being who made two mistakes.

[The Green Goblin]

Whenever I see mistakes like those, I tend to think "irregular betting patterns". Usually unfairly, but I was a bit surprised that not one team mate came to console the guy at the end.

That was exactly my thoughts too. I was watching with a pal and the first thing I said when that first goal went in as “hmmm, somebody somewhere might be wondering about betting going on”. When the third one went in, well, that really made me wonder.... It just seemed impossible to see one, never mind two utterly howling errors like that in a game of that magnitude.

[Mr White]

When the players in question are getting paid over £100k per week I think it's easier to put it down to a horrible mistake for the first that shot the guy's confidence. Then the second mistake followed an almost unsaveable overhead kick of course.

Surely the amounts of cash required to convince a player to make a near career destroying mistake (or two) in a CL final would be fairly difficult to disguise... unless you've got his immediate family bound and gagged in a lock-up somewhere.

He made a bad mistake. He didn't recover mentally and he made another one. It happens at every level of sport. Nothing to do with sinister motives or irregular betting patterns IMO.

[brog]

The position of him for Hartley freekick was shocking. I think the whole stadium knew that was going in.

TBF not much different from Rocky in the semi final last season.

[Chic Murray]

When the players in question are getting paid over £100k per week I think it's easier to put it down to a horrible mistake for the first that shot the guy's confidence. Then the second mistake followed an almost unsaveable overhead kick of course.

Surely the amounts of cash required to convince a player to make a near career destroying mistake (or two) in a CL final would be fairly difficult to disguise... unless you've got his immediate family bound and gagged in a lock-up somewhere.

He made a bad mistake. He didn't recover mentally and he made another one. It happens at every level of sport. Nothing to do with sinister motives or irregular betting patterns IMO.

I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.

[Mr White]

I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.

I agree with the second part. I can't see how it could possibly have been worth his while to have chucked them in deliberately though.

[snooky]

I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.

Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could give some rope to, but two, I don't think so.

[Johnny_Leith]

Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could show some empathy, but two, I don't think so.

Yup, it's understandable. As he's been poor all season I'm not surprised at the reaction at the time. If he'd been outstanding and made those mistakes then they'd have supported him on the pitch. I guess there was a mix of choice words and support in the dressing room.

[Sammy7nil]

Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could give some rope to, but two, I don't think so.

I would love you as a team mate - well maybe not :greengrin

[snooky]

I would love you as a team mate - well maybe not :greengrin

:greengrin I was trying to think how I'd feel if I was one of the Liverpool players immediately after the final whistle. I don't think I would have felt in a very compassionate mood at that moment, though I suppose I might feel differently once the adrenalin subsided :wink:

[21.05.2016]

It says it all when rival fans cheer when your keepers name is read out in the starting XI. Can't say I blame them though, they knew with him in goals they were guarenteed at least 1 gift wrapped goal.

It was a shame because obviously he didn't mean to be bad, he was just a very poor keeper but you could tell he just lost all confidence, especially in derbies where he had all the hearts fans taking the piss.

He certainly isn't alone in nightmare keepers we've had though.

Makalamby
Tony Caig
Simon Brown
Greame Smith
Mark Brown
Andy McNeil (fair enough he was part of the 2007 cup winning side but he was very prone to howlers)

[where'stheslope]

Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!

[Monts]

Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!
Sean Murdoch (our ex keeper) thinks similarly.

https://twitter.com/sean_murdoch_/status/1000712659929653248?s=19

[CropleyWasGod]

Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!

He had thrown it a few yards. It wasn't even close to being a foul.

The ref on the BT coverage agreed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[HibbyAndy]

He's absolutely garbage.

That's the be all and end all , Liverpool need a better keeper than this mug , If that's harsh then so be it .

[Pretty Boy]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

[Mr White]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
:top marks

[21.05.2016]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

I agree. Some of the reaction last night on social media was totally disgusting but I suspect the majority of those people were simply caught up in frustration in the heat of the moment. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever for some of the comments, particularly the family threats and death wishes etc but hopefully now that things have calmed down a little bit they look back on what they said and realise it was completely out of order, over the top and feel a sense of shame.

I worry about the mental health of Karius. He will undoubtably be feeling extremely low and on top of that he's now recieved horrendous abuse and threats. He will be in a very dark place right now. I hope to God Liverpool offer him all the help and support they possibly can and that he doesn't fall into a seriously dark frame of mind.

If I was him I would leave Liverpool this summer as this is always going to hang over him there. Find a new club, rebuild your career, at 24 you're still young enough. I guess some would argue that the right thing to do would be to stay at Liverpool and try to make it up to them but I just think that would be a hell of a lot of pressure for the guy.

[Tyler Durden]

He had thrown it a few yards. It wasn't even close to being a foul.

The ref on the BT coverage agreed.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

I think 9 times out of 10 the ref gives a foul there. Generally that is how the referees apply that rule and I think they’re right to do so.

If it happened at the other end last night I think the ref gives a foul

[hibsbollah]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.

[stantonhibby]

Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.


Agree.....i think we've all seen something like the 2nd mistake before......but I don't recall seeing anything like the first howler.

[Scouse Hibee]

I think 9 times out of 10 the ref gives a foul there. Generally that is how the referees apply that rule and I think they’re right to do so.

If it happened at the other end last night I think the ref gives a foul

Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.

[BILLYHIBS]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
:top marksPretty Boy.

Whatever happened to YNWA?

They win as a team lose as a team. Heads went down when Ramos did Salah.

Hypocrits! Shankly must be burling in his grave.

[Sir David Gray]

Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.

I'm glad you have said this. I was going to say exactly that but I thought I would just be accused of having an agenda.

How anyone can say that was a foul is beyond me.

[BILLYHIBS]

I'm glad you have said this. I was going to say exactly that but I thought I would just be accused of having an agenda.

How anyone can say that was a foul is beyond me.
Retired ref guy that BT Sports pay fortunes for forget his name says legitimate goal good enough for me though hear what previous poster says as have played loads of amateur football where every game is played at 100 mph like a running fight totally different scenario GOAL!!

[Tyler Durden]

Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.

When he’s in the process of releasing the ball, Benzema is trying to prevent him from doing so. Benzema is stretching before the ball is released.

IMO it’s like Makalambay against Aberdeen where he kicked it off Lee Millers back. Because they are both dodgy keepers, people scoff at the mistake and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. The ref would normally penalise both those goals.

The interpretation of the rule normally is that the forward basically needs to get out the keepers way and the ball isn’t necessarily considered to be released as soon as it’s left the goalies hands.

[JimBHibees]

Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.

Absolutely no way in this world was that a foul.

[JimBHibees]

Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.

I thought it looked like the other way round he was going to punch then decided to catch but very weak hands.

[The Leith Dutch]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

That ^ is Hibs class :)

[Diclonius]

If us and Hearts had swapped Zibi and Gordon at the start of 05-06 we would have been pushing for 2nd for the following two seasons.

[Sammy7nil]

When he’s in the process of releasing the ball, Benzema is trying to prevent him from doing so. Benzema is stretching before the ball is released.

IMO it’s like Makalambay against Aberdeen where he kicked it off Lee Millers back. Because they are both dodgy keepers, people scoff at the mistake and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. The ref would normally penalise both those goals.

The interpretation of the rule normally is that the forward basically needs to get out the keepers way and the ball isn’t necessarily considered to be released as soon as it’s left the goalies hands.

There is no way it is a free kick. There is nothing dangerous about Benzema 's intervention. The keeper was careless and got penalised. If he threw it over arm instead of under arm we would not be having this debate.

[snooky]

There is no way it is a free kick. There is nothing dangerous about Benzema 's intervention. The keeper was careless and got penalised. If he threw it over arm instead of under arm we would not be having this debate.
Duff goalkeeping in my opinion. Nothing wrong with the goal. It was an interception by the player, of course that's just my opinion. Others may disagree.

[heretoday]

Death threats apparently. Some LFC fans have been taking Shankly's famous line too literally.

it's just a game. Or do some folk have nothing else in their lives? So it seems.

[The Modfather]

I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

Sounds like the passes you used to give me on a Saturday morning S :devil: :wink:

Hard not to feel for Karius, although Klopp seems to have a Wenger-esque blind spot/stubbornness in sticking with Karius/Mignolet when neither are good enough for the very top level.

[basehibby]

At least spell the poor bloke's name right - Karius.

What an abysmal night for him though - shows the raw cruelty of being a keeper. If a striker fluffs a chance or a midfielder misplaces a pass, there's no instant impact on the "goals against" column for their own team.

Same can't be said for a goalie. Instant punishment and he's probably played his last game for Liverpool I'd say.

Really? I'd have thought his new nick name would be "Dropus" after his nightmarish non-performance on Sat. He clearly doesn't have the character to match the enormous wage packet he'll be drawing at Liverpool so I'll reserve my sympathies for his teammates.

Seriously that was the worst goalkeeping performance I have ever seen bar none - in my mind's eye, Zibby and Makalamby now look like models of composure and self assured mastery of the gloves by comparison.

Klopp has surely got the easiest of decisions now in opting to release this clown - mind you Mowbray had the same easy decision to release Zibby and yet chose to astound all onlookers by handing him a contract extension - much to the chagrin of all Hibees. Mowbray was as positive for Hibs as Klopp appears to be for Liverpool though - I just hope for the sake of the Liverpool fans who I call friends that Klopp is not prone to the same brain-fart tendencies as Mowbray regarding goalkeepers.

[snooky]

Death threats apparently. Some LFC fans have been taking Shankly's famous line too literally.

it's just a game. Or do some folk have nothing else in their lives? So it seems.

If someone plans to kill you, I would have thought it would be much wiser not to tell you first and have you on your guard. I suppose bammers aren't very wise in the first place.

[The Leith Dutch]

If someone plans to kill you, I would have thought it would be much wiser not to tell you first and have you on your guard. I suppose bammers aren't very wise in the first place.

That's putting it mildly.

The fact that they don't realise you may as well be putting your address on a ****ing Social Media post it's that easy for Plod to find you would be laughable if only is wasn't for the effect this kind of **** has on the recipient.

[Scouse Hibee]

When he’s in the process of releasing the ball, Benzema is trying to prevent him from doing so. Benzema is stretching before the ball is released.

IMO it’s like Makalambay against Aberdeen where he kicked it off Lee Millers back. Because they are both dodgy keepers, people scoff at the mistake and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. The ref would normally penalise both those goals.

The interpretation of the rule normally is that the forward basically needs to get out the keepers way and the ball isn’t necessarily considered to be released as soon as it’s left the goalies hands.

He wasn't in the keepers way, it was never a foul and you trying to dress it up as one won't wash.

[Tyler Durden]

He wasn't in the keepers way, it was never a foul and you trying to dress it up as one won't wash.

Haha. I couldn’t give a toss - I’m not a Karius fan.

The rule/law says it’s a free kick if you “attempt to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it”. That’s what Benzema did

[CropleyWasGod]

Haha. I couldn’t give a toss - I’m not a Karius fan.

The rule/law says it’s a free kick if you “attempt to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it”. That’s what Benzema didWhen does that process end, though? When it reaches another player? When it has gone a certain distance?.

IMO, he'd released it. The ball had gone about 3 yards away from him, and (most importantly) was outwith his control, when Benzema played it.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Tyler Durden]

When does that process end, though? When it reaches another player? When it has gone a certain distance?.

IMO, he'd released it. The ball had gone about 3 yards away from him, and (most importantly) was outwith his control, when Benzema played it.

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Well that part seems to be open to interpretation doesn’t it? Most refs seem to give a foul if a player is within 5 yards of a goalie.

Key thing though is Benzema makes a move prior to Karius releasing the ball. So for me he’s clearly interfering when keeper is in process of releasing the ball. ENDOF 😉

[Wilson]

Well that part seems to be open to interpretation doesn’t it? Most refs seem to give a foul if a player is within 5 yards of a goalie.

Key thing though is Benzema makes a move prior to Karius releasing the ball. So for me he’s clearly interfering when keeper is in process of releasing the ball. ENDOF 😉

If play had stopped and Benzema hasdn't retreated far enough then you'd have a point. As it happened the ball has gone through to the keeper, Benzema reads what is happening and adjusts his position, then sticks his leg out to connect with the ball as it is released.

Predatory from Benzema. Poor from Karius. Never a foul.

[Scouse Hibee]

Haha. I couldn’t give a toss - I’m not a Karius fan.

The rule/law says it’s a free kick if you “attempt to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it”. That’s what Benzema did

No, he had released it, jeez why is that so hard for you to understand?

[Tyler Durden]

If play had stopped and Benzema hasdn't retreated far enough then you'd have a point. As it happened the ball has gone through to the keeper, Benzema reads what is happening and adjusts his position, then sticks his leg out to connect with the ball as it is released.

Predatory from Benzema. Poor from Karius. Never a foul.

Sticking a leg out to connect with the ball as it is released. That would be preventing the keeper from releasing the ball - a foul.

[Tyler Durden]

No, he had released it, jeez why is that so hard for you to understand?

I’m not sure - can you explain it again?

[Eyrie]

Sticking a leg out to connect with the ball as it is released. That would be preventing the keeper from releasing the ball - a foul.

Benzema sticking his leg out did not prevent Karius from releasing the ball. Instead it prevented the ball travelling more than a few yards in the intended direction after Karius released it.

It would have been a foul if Benzema had been standing next to Karius and preventing him from releasing the ball.

[Scouse Hibee]

I’m not sure - can you explain it again?

Nah you'll never get it.

[Pretty Boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44363648

Ramos really did a number on Liverpool didn't he?

[sambajustice]

Absolutely embarrassing!

Will just increase the pressure on him now. Will be even more of a laughing stock now!

[hibsbollah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44363648

Ramos really did a number on Liverpool didn't he?

That puts an interesting slant on things. I hadn't noticed the Ramos forearm while watching the game. He's some boy.

[hibsbollah]

Absolutely embarrassing!

Will just increase the pressure on him now. Will be even more of a laughing stock now!

I don't understand, why:dunno:

[sambajustice]

I don't understand, why:dunno:

He'll just get ripped a new one in the media and by the fans even more so I'd imagine.

[hibsbollah]

He'll just get ripped a new one in the media and by the fans even more so I'd imagine.

Karius? You think he'll get a harder time because Ramos actually planted one on him and he was concussed at the time of his mistakes?

[neil7908]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44363648

Ramos really did a number on Liverpool didn't he?

I must admit I'm a little sceptical about this. Not saying it isn't true but seems like an odd thing to come out now.

I appreciate it was a CL final and the adrenaline would have been flowing but I've had a minor concussion and I absolutely knew about it at the time and for the next few days.

If he was feeling in any way disoriented he should have said something. Dangerous for him and clearly damaging to his team. Its frankly reckless if he continued playing with any standard symptoms of concussion.

[neil7908]

I must admit I'm a little sceptical about this. Not saying it isn't true but seems like an odd thing to come out now.

I appreciate it was a CL final and the adrenaline would have been flowing but I've had a minor concussion and I absolutely knew about it at the time and for the next few days.

If he was feeling in any way disoriented he should have said something. Dangerous for him and clearly damaging to his team. Its frankly reckless if he continued playing with any standard symptoms of concussion.

Having said all that Ramos really is a piece of work.

[007]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44363648

Ramos really did a number on Liverpool didn't he?

There's a video clip about halfway down this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5804423/Liverpool-goalkeeper-Loris-Karius-underwent-head-scan-Champions-League-final.html

[hibsbollah]

I must admit I'm a little sceptical about this. Not saying it isn't true but seems like an odd thing to come out now.

I appreciate it was a CL final and the adrenaline would have been flowing but I've had a minor concussion and I absolutely knew about it at the time and for the next few days.

If he was feeling in any way disoriented he should have said something. Dangerous for him and clearly damaging to his team. Its frankly reckless if he continued playing with any standard symptoms of concussion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bg4ZqHvUTa8

Fairly damning if you ask me.

[sambajustice]

Karius? You think he'll get a harder time because Ramos actually planted one on him and he was concussed at the time of his mistakes?

Let's be honest, it's probably not true.

[Sir David Gray]

There's a video clip about halfway down this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5804423/Liverpool-goalkeeper-Loris-Karius-underwent-head-scan-Champions-League-final.html

Possibly a shove from Van Dijk onto Ramos first?

Those pictures are very inconclusive.

[One Day Soon]

Sincerely hope Ramos gets his big time at the World Cup. Utter tool.

[Northernhibee]

Sincerely hope Ramos gets his big time at the World Cup. Utter tool.

Oh, absolutely. I feel bad about my comments on Karius if that's true.

A nice knee height studs upper for Ramos would be totally wrong but also totally satisfying.

[snooky]

Oh, absolutely. I feel bad about my comments on Karius if that's true.

A nice knee height studs upper for Ramos would be totally wrong but also totally satisfying.

Better be hanged for a sheep rather than an imaginary lamb.
i.e. If Ramos is going to go down, make sure there's a 'healthy' reason for it. :wink:

[CMurdoch]

There's a video clip about halfway down this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5804423/Liverpool-goalkeeper-Loris-Karius-underwent-head-scan-Champions-League-final.html

When i read the story today I thought it was a load of crap.
However, watching that clip changes my mind.
That is a massive elbow strike he has taken.

Ramos should get a 3 month World ban starting tomorrow.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the injury to Salah but the Karius incident is an assault and a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent.
Karius should be thinking about suing him for an assault that has potentially ruined his reputation and career.

[Sir David Gray]

When i read the story today I thought it was a load of crap.
However, watching that clip changes my mind.
That is a massive elbow strike he has taken.

Ramos should get a 3 month World ban starting tomorrow.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the injury to Salah but the Karius incident is an assault and a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent.
Karius should be thinking about suing him for an assault that has potentially ruined his reputation and career.

There's absolutely no chance that would be successful in court.

[Ryan69]

The old concussion excuse...come on.

He made mistakes...it happens to us all.


I thought that tobe concussed you had to of been knocked out? May be wrong on that like.
Thats generally why a paramedics first question if somebody has a head injury is...did you pass out.

[Scouse Hibee]

He was pushed towards the keeper, sorry but the concussion story sounds like a load of bollox to me especially coming so long after the game.

[calumhibee1]

The old concussion excuse...come on.

He made mistakes...it happens to us all.


I thought that tobe concussed you had to of been knocked out? May be wrong on that like.
Thats generally why a paramedics first question if somebody has a head injury is...did you pass out.

You don’t have to be knocked out. It’s unlikely Karius was concussed though IMO.

[bigwheel]

You don’t have to be knocked out. It’s unlikely Karius was concussed though IMO.


This is why I love social media....a group of experts have analysed data and drawn a conclusion, and we (including myself here), choose the draw different conclusions ....magic! :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

So 26 of 30 tests say he had a concussion but Hibs.net knows better. No wonder concussions aren't taken seriously in this country.l You think doctors are going to lie about that? Concussions can lead to serious brain damage and even death, doesn't sound like something someone would make up. He held his hands up right away, he isn't making excuses.

[1van Sprou7e]

You don’t have to be knocked out. It’s unlikely Karius was concussed though IMO.

Based on....?

[Ryan69]

So 26 of 30 tests say he had a concussion but Hibs.net knows better. No wonder concussions aren't taken seriously in this country.l You think doctors are going to lie about that? Concussions can lead to serious brain damage and even death, doesn't sound like something someone would make up. He held his hands up right away, he isn't making excuses.

I think that IF and its a big IF Liverpool doing an investigation into their physios credentials as to how they could not spot concussion...you will see if he did or not.

Its a huge error not spotting concussion.

Doctors can be paid off these days.

[Sergio sledge]

I think that IF and its a big IF Liverpool doing an investigation into their physios credentials as to how they could not spot concussion...you will see if he did or not.

Its a huge error not spotting concussion.

Doctors can be paid off these days.

You can't spot a concussion without an assessment. You can't make an assessment in 30 seconds of treatment on the pitch. In rugby when a player receives a head knock the team are allowed a "free" substitution to take the player off and assess them. If they pass the tests they can return to the field, if not the substitution is made permanent. They can be forced by the referee to take the player off for an assessment or even the TMO can force it if they spot something on the video replays.

There isn't anything like this in football (partly because head injuries are a lot less common) so if a team wants to make an assessment of a player, they have to use up one of their 3 substitutions to do it. Can't see many managers agreeing to do this when the player says they are fine and they aren't stumbling all over the place.

[leithsansiro]

The old concussion excuse...come on.

He made mistakes...it happens to us all.


I thought that tobe concussed you had to of been knocked out? May be wrong on that like.
Thats generally why a paramedics first question if somebody has a head injury is...did you pass out.

You don’t need to be knocked out to be concussed. It’s happened to me teice playing rugby and i wasnt out cold either time.

That said, rugby treats head injuries much better, generally, than football as they happen more often. However, id say that only applies at high level of sport. The first tine that i was concussed, i was given a quick look in the eyes and told to get back on, despite feeling completed dazed. If Karius was concussed, im not surprised that he made errors of judgement

[Sioux]

You can't spot a concussion without an assessment. You can't make an assessment in 30 seconds of treatment on the pitch. In rugby when a player receives a head knock the team are allowed a "free" substitution to take the player off and assess them. If they pass the tests they can return to the field, if not the substitution is made permanent. They can be forced by the referee to take the player off for an assessment or even the TMO can force it if they spot something on the video replays.

There isn't anything like this in football (partly because head injuries are a lot less common) so if a team wants to make an assessment of a player, they have to use up one of their 3 substitutions to do it. Can't see many managers agreeing to do this when the player says they are fine and they aren't stumbling all over the place.

Not so sure that's right. The instances of players getting head knocks are increasing, compared to 10/15 years ago, my perception. What I don't find acceptable is football's apparent unwillingness to follow the rugby code re head injuries. Having said that, football has been run by a bunch of incompetent fools, cite FIFA and UEFA, and the various cohorts that have held senior positions within.

'If its not worth money, its not worth doing' seems to be their overriding principle.

Rant over.

[hibsbollah]

I think that IF and its a big IF Liverpool doing an investigation into their physios credentials as to how they could not spot concussion...you will see if he did or not.

Its a huge error not spotting concussion.

Doctors can be paid off these days.

There's some total drivel on this thread.
You think this guy,

Dr Ross Zafonte, an authority on head-trauma injuries suffered by NFL players and the chief of physical medicine and rehabilitation at Massachusetts General...

... Is going to risk his career and destroy his professional integrity to make up a concussion story so Karius is going to feel less sad about dropping the ball? Give me peace.

[Beefster]

There's some total drivel on this thread.
You think this guy,

Dr Ross Zafonte, an authority on head-trauma injuries suffered by NFL players and the chief of physical medicine and rehabilitation at Massachusetts General...

... Is going to risk his career and destroy his professional integrity to make up a concussion story so Karius is going to feel less sad about dropping the ball? Give me peace.

Very harsh calling it drivel. The trained physicians on hibs.net have come to a different conclusion after presumably examining Karius and his medical notes. Happens all the time - that's why folk get second opinions.

[One Day Soon]

So let's see:

we have an eminent expert saying he probably had concussion
we have something like 26 of 30 tests saying that he probably had concussion
we have Hibsbollah's very sensible point that prior to this game he was on a great goalkeeping run
we have video evidence to show that he took a direct violent head knock in a goalmouth challenge which took place completely OFF THE BALL

and finally, the utter goon involved in administering the off the ball challenge that appears to have concussed him was......Ramos.


Ramos deserves everything he has coming to him. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

[JimBHibees]

So 26 of 30 tests say he had a concussion but Hibs.net knows better. No wonder concussions aren't taken seriously in this country.l You think doctors are going to lie about that? Concussions can lead to serious brain damage and even death, doesn't sound like something someone would make up. He held his hands up right away, he isn't making excuses.

When did he make these tests, a few weeks after the game? If so would be difficult to know when concussion took place.

[Kato]

When did he make these tests, a few weeks after the game?

It's not "a few weeks after the game" even now. The match only took place 11 days ago.

[MWHIBBIES]

When did he make these tests, a few weeks after the game? If so would be difficult to know when concussion took place.Yes, I'm sure the world class medical professionals didn't ask him if he bumped his head at any other times.

[Brooster]

How much is this expert getting paid to come up with this krap?

[CropleyWasGod]

How much is this expert getting paid to come up with this krap?

Yup.

Could've got a better opinion on Hubs.net for nowt.

[Sergio sledge]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/loris-karius-concussion-liverpool-real-madrid-champions-league-final-sergio-ramos/amp/?p=161591&__twitter_impression=true

[Scouse Hibee]

So 26 of 30 tests say he had a concussion but Hibs.net knows better. No wonder concussions aren't taken seriously in this country.l You think doctors are going to lie about that? Concussions can lead to serious brain damage and even death, doesn't sound like something someone would make up. He held his hands up right away, he isn't making excuses.

It doesn't really matter to me, he made two huge errors which basically blew any chance we had. Whether the concussion contributed we will never know as he also made decent saves after the elbow incident. A goal keeper simply not good enough despite his run of form before the final, the majority of fans always thought he was just another **** up away and so it was proved to be whatever the circumstances. New goalie please.

[Pretty Boy]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/loris-karius-concussion-liverpool-real-madrid-champions-league-final-sergio-ramos/amp/?p=161591&__twitter_impression=true

Good article. Not just re the reaction to the revelations about the concussion but also about the macho attitude people take towards thess things sometimes. A lot of goalkeepers pride themselves (ourselves even) on being a different breed and playing with injuries other players might sit out with; the nature of the position probably plays a part in that in so much as if you lose your place then that can be that.

The fact it has taken Karius 5 days to seek medical help suggests that attitude is closer to the mark for him rather than the 'just looking for an excuse' chat. I had no strong feelings about the guy prior to the UCL final but now I really hope he goes on to prove a lot of people wrong over the next few years. He's been treated appalingly.

[21.05.2016]

Whether he was concussed or not, nobody knew at the time (perhaps not even the goalie himself) hence why no action was taken. It's not as if the goalie was asking for help and nothing was done and he was made to play through it. Players get injured and play though injury all the time and yes it sometimes probably makes them have a poorer game than they normally would but thats football. People signing that petiton to try get the final replayed are just coming over as desperate. I like Liverpool, I was gutted they lost but it's over now, move on.

The guy made mistakes, whether that was down to not being 100% sharp due to a head injury i don't know but it's over and this really does strike me as just trying to make excuses and clutching at straws.

[heretoday]

It doesn't really matter to me, he made two huge errors which basically blew any chance we had. Whether the concussion contributed we will never know as he also made decent saves after the elbow incident. A goal keeper simply not good enough despite his run of form before the final, the majority of fans always thought he was just another **** up away and so it was proved to be whatever the circumstances. New goalie please.

Hear Hear. He's just making a bigger berk of himself by going on about it.

[hibsbollah]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/loris-karius-concussion-liverpool-real-madrid-champions-league-final-sergio-ramos/amp/?p=161591&__twitter_impression=true

Preece is spot on about Karius here, and again I recommend his #1 football podcast with Lloyd Griffith as a good bit of irreverant but well informed nonsense if you're interested in all things goalkeeping.

Specifically on concussions, he's of course right about how ill informed we still are as a sport. How many times have i heard that old chestnut about 'the balls back in the day were heavy leather and were really heavy when wet, so concussions and potential brain injury were much worse back then you know'. Yes, and now balls travel much, much faster!

(are you less likely to be more seriously injured falling at a great speed, from a great height, into water, or at slow speed, from a few feet away, onto solid ground? The answer is obvious to most of us, (its not the density of the object that matters as much as the velocity that its coming into you at), but when it comes to football pundits they cany make the leap from basic physics into football). Concussions and other brain injuries through heading the ball repeatedly are unfortunately very possible, even today. Thats why heading the ball is now discouraged at youth level.

[Northernhibee]

Thats why heading the ball is now discouraged at youth level.

Levein protects Harry Cochrane by just bypassing the midfield altogether.

[hibsbollah]

Levein protects Harry Cochrane by just bypassing the midfield altogether.

Craig just doesnt want to mess up Zico Cochrane's lovely hair.

[jacomo]

It doesn't really matter to me, he made two huge errors which basically blew any chance we had. Whether the concussion contributed we will never know as he also made decent saves after the elbow incident. A goal keeper simply not good enough despite his run of form before the final, the majority of fans always thought he was just another **** up away and so it was proved to be whatever the circumstances. New goalie please.


YNWA (unless you are Karius, then you can GTF)

[1van Sprou7e]

Hear Hear. He's just making a bigger berk of himself by going on about it.

What a bizarre outlook

The guy was getting death threats because of his mistakes, and when it turns out there may well have been a medical reason for his errors he is just making himself look worse by "going on about it"

Jesus wept

[Scouse Hibee]

YNWA (unless you are Karius, then you can GTF)

He's not the first and he won't be the last.