The "N" word

[Stranraer]

I see Kendrick Lamar invited a white woman on stage to perform and now there's a huge debate about white people using the "n" word.

I'm a huge Hip Hop fan but when singing lyrics I say "homie" instead.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

[lord bunberry]

I see Kendrick Lamar invited a white woman on stage to perform and now there's a huge debate about white people using the "n" word.

I'm a huge Hip Hop fan but when singing lyrics I say "homie" instead.

What are peoples thoughts on this?
Was the n word in the lyrics of song?

[danhibees1875]

I think it's ridiculous to invite someone on stage to sing one of your songs and then complain when they do. How was the girl meant to know what to do? Was she meant to slot in a different word? Just be silent? shout "BEEP"? :confused:

If you don't want people using the word, don't include it in your lyrics. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Stranraer]

Was the n word in the lyrics of song?

Yes.

[Onceinawhile]

White people shouldn't use the n word. That should really be the end of it to be honest.

[Onceinawhile]

I think it's ridiculous to invite someone on stage to sing one of your songs and then complain when they do. How was the girl meant to know what to do? Was she meant to slot in a different word? Just be silent? shout "BEEP"? :confused:

If you don't want people using the word, don't include it in your lyrics. Seems pretty simple to me.

So... you're telling the guy how his lyrics should sound? There's no responsibility on the person using racial slurs here?

[Wilson]

White people shouldn't use the n word. That should really be the end of it to be honest.

Should it? The artist has divided his fans into two classes based on their colour. Black fans can sing the word. White ones can't. Certainly segregation seems to go against the ideals of hip hop songs. Unless the message is it is okay to exclude and segregate so long as it isn't to black people.

The word should either be acceptable to the artist, and ALL of his fans, in the context of his music and everyone having an equal right to enjoy it. Either that or the word is unacceptable full stop.

[Smartie]

White people shouldn't use the n word. That should really be the end of it to be honest.

Generally they shouldn't, but a bit of common sense should apply to context should it not?

What can someone do when they are invited onstage to sing the lyrics of a song? There can be no racist intent in that context, surely?

[danhibees1875]

So... you're telling the guy how his lyrics should sound? There's no responsibility on the person using racial slurs here?

Yes, if he doesn't want people singing a word then he shouldn't put in his lyrics.

Not really, she was asked to sing a song of his choosing with words of his choosing - I would say she's pretty blameless.

[Sir David Gray]

So... you're telling the guy how his lyrics should sound? There's no responsibility on the person using racial slurs here?

If he's inviting someone on stage to sing one of his songs and that word is in it, what exactly did he expect to happen?

She's hardly going to start singing humpty dumpty.

If that word is so offensive (which I personally feel that it is) then it should be off limits to everyone, not just white people.

There's plenty people (of all races) who don't think it's right for black rappers to include that word in any of their lyrics because of how offensive it is.

[wpj]

I think he has played a blinder. As they say you can't buy publicity like that. I didn't have a Scooby who he is but now he's all over the news. He set her up and she fell for it, I feel sorry for her.

[Stranraer]

I think he has played a blinder. As they say you can't buy publicity like that. I didn't have a Scooby who he is but now he's all over the news. He set her up and she fell for it, I feel sorry for her.

He's one of the most successful rappers right now and won the Pulitzer price for his 2017 album "DAMN".

[calumhibee1]

Guys a fanny. He’s also *****.

[heretoday]

Quite the conundrum here! Black Americans use the word in banter with each other. This began as irony and a defence mechanism against the oppressor. You could say that they "own" the word now.

Non-blacks can't even use it in reported speech or songs! I feel sorry for this lady too. She's been gulled into this.

[SRHibs]

Guys a fanny. He’s also *****.

I don’t even listen to rap but he’s clearly talented.

If the N word is in a song lyric written from a black person’s perspective I don’t see the problem personally. Seems a bit like bait to choose a white girl to sing that particular song.

[Gatecrasher]

if he doesn't want people saying the word he shouldn't have it in his songs.

[Alex Trager]

I think it's ridiculous to invite someone on stage to sing one of your songs and then complain when they do. How was the girl meant to know what to do? Was she meant to slot in a different word? Just be silent? shout "BEEP"? :confused:

If you don't want people using the word, don't include it in your lyrics. Seems pretty simple to me.

Batted out the park 10/10

[calumhibee1]

I don’t even listen to rap but he’s clearly talented.

If the N word is in a song lyric written from a black person’s perspective I don’t see the problem personally. Seems a bit like bait to choose a white girl to sing that particular song.

I quite like rap music but I think he’s murder most of the time.

Agree with your second paragraph, he’s done this for the publicity and he’s hung one of his fans out to dry to get it.

[One Day Soon]

Oh for ****'s sake.

[WeeRussell]

Should it? The artist has divided his fans into two classes based on their colour. Black fans can sing the word. White ones can't. Certainly segregation seems to go against the ideals of hip hop songs. Unless the message is it is okay to exclude and segregate so long as it isn't to black people.

The word should either be acceptable to the artist, and ALL of his fans, in the context of his music and everyone having an equal right to enjoy it. Either that or the word is unacceptable full stop.

100%

Wait.. is it actually the rapper who invited this girl on to stage who is complaining? Or just the media etc?

If it is the former. What a welt.

[lord bunberry]

100%

Wait.. is it actually the rapper who invited this girl on to stage who is complaining? Or just the media etc?

If it is the former. What a welt.
The story I read was that it was the crowd reaction to the girl singing the lyrics that led to the artist stopping her. What has been said since then I’m not sure.

[IGRIGI]

Ironic given the fact he has a song where he calls white people honkies and crackers.

But that's fair game apparently.

[calumhibee1]

Ironic given the fact he has a song where he calls white people honkies and crackers.

But that's fair game apparently.

It’s always fair game to racially abuse white people. I’ve actually seen it suggested that white people cant be the subject of racism.

[Pete]

The “N” word is ****** and there’s no need for censorship.

I think a few people, black and white, need to learn a bit about more about the slave trade if they think the word is unrepeatable in any sort of modern context.

We’re all on the same page now and know that our culture is equal, not superior.

[bigwheel]

The “N” word is ****** and there’s no need for censorship.

I think a few people, black and white, need to learn a bit about more about the slave trade if they think the word is unrepeatable in any sort of modern context.

We’re all on the same page now and know that our culture is equal, not superior.

I’m not quite sure the points you are making in this post - Are you suggesting it’s not a racial slur?? I can’t imagine, in this day, that is the point you are suggesting?

And are you are also suggesting there is now some magical universal equality regardless of race??

[Sir David Gray]

It’s always fair game to racially abuse white people. I’ve actually seen it suggested that white people cant be the subject of racism.

Yep as have I.

In the same way that men apparently can't be the victims of sexism.

Apparently unless you're a minority group who has traditionally been seen to be treated unfairly, you're not eligible to claim any sort of prejudice has taken place against you.

According to some people anyway.

[Beefster]

Has there ever been a racism thread on here that hasn’t turned into ‘us white folks can be the victims of racism too’? Yes, we can but to discuss it in the context of what other races have and still do go through is cringey as **** IMHO.

[Sir David Gray]

Has there ever been a racism thread on here that hasn’t turned into ‘us white folks can be the victims of racism too’? Yes, we can but to discuss it in the context of what other races have and still do go through is cringey as **** IMHO.

In the context of this thread I think it's a valid point.

We are talking here about a black person criticising someone for using racist language whilst also being guilty himself of using language which is deemed offensive towards white people.

[bigwheel]

In the context of this thread I think it's a valid point.

We are talking here about a black person criticising someone for using racist language whilst also being guilty himself of using language which is deemed offensive towards white people.

The broader point though is that the everyday inequalities and racism encountered growing up black (Or any racial or ethnic minority)in the western world means that we (including myself here) white people don’t really understand what those who experience it go through .. their personal experiences allow them to have a perspective on these topics that we just don’t have....no matter how nuanced our analysis .. frankly if a black artist feels it is racist to use this term, then we should
Listen and respect that view....as we don’t understand it in the way they do.

[Sir David Gray]

The broader point though is that the everyday inequalities and racism encountered growing up black (Or any racial or ethnic minority)in the western world means that we (including myself here) white people don’t really understand what those who experience it go through .. their personal experiences allow them to have a perspective on these topics that we just don’t have....no matter how nuanced our analysis .. frankly if a black artist feels it is racist to use this term, then we should
Listen and respect that view....as we don’t understand it in the way they do.

I don't think anyone is making an argument for saying that the "n" word is acceptable.

I think people are simply highlighting the hypocrisy of someone who is criticising the use of the "n" word but has a history of using racial slurs against white people.

[bigwheel]

I don't think anyone is making an argument for saying that the "n" word is acceptable.

I think people are simply highlighting the hypocrisy of someone who is criticising the use of the "n" word but has a history of using racial slurs against white people.

And so I guess my point is , iWhite people’s experience with racism is getting offended by some terms in occasional songs, a black man or woman. has had to deal with prejudice everyday of their existence - there really is no comparison...

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think anyone is making an argument for saying that the "n" word is acceptable.

I think people are simply highlighting the hypocrisy of someone who is criticising the use of the "n" word but has a history of using racial slurs against white people.He didn't criticise her. He asked her not to sing the word. There's a difference.

In hindsight, I am guessing he realises that he has made better decisions, though. [emoji16]

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[The Modfather]

And so I guess my point is , iWhite people’s experience with racism is getting offended by some terms in occasional songs, a black man or woman. has had to deal with prejudice everyday of their existence - there really is no comparison...

Of course there’s still racism in the world, but I think it’s pushing it to claim “a black man or woman has to deal with prejudice everyday of their existence” in 2018. Particularly in the context of Kendrick Lamar who is a multi millionaire thanks to his fans of all colour.

[bigwheel]

Of course there’s still racism in the world, but I think it’s pushing it to claim “a black man or woman has to deal with prejudice everyday of their existence” in 2018. Particularly in the context of Kendrick Lamar who is a multi millionaire thanks to his fans of all colour.

Ask some of your back or minority friends and colleagues views..racism
Is still alive and kicking in 2018....And Kendrick wasn’t born an international superstar - his views will be formed from his life experiences. And often people will still first see the colour of his skin ....

[One Day]

Yes, if he doesn't want people singing a word then he shouldn't put in his lyrics.

Not really, she was asked to sing a song of his choosing with words of his choosing - I would say she's pretty blameless.

So would I

[RyeSloan]

And so I guess my point is , iWhite people’s experience with racism is getting offended by some terms in occasional songs, a black man or woman. has had to deal with prejudice everyday of their existence - there really is no comparison...

Do you not think racism exists where white people are the minority?

That said anyone who thinks racism and casual racism don’t exist in the white western world population because it’s 2018 is way off the mark. It’s not as prevalent for sure but it’s still there.

As for the OP it’s just silly really....while the N word is without doubt racist it should be the artist perpetuating its use that should be getting pelters not the poor fan. And if it’s in the damn song then it’s in the damn song and if you happen to be at the concert where the song is being played AND asked by the artist to sing it then it’s beyond parody for her to castigated for singing it because of her colour.


I’m also not sure you can be offended by the use of a word when you use that word yourself. It’s a bit like catholics appropriating the word Fenian and using it to refer to themselves in popular culture.

[bigwheel]

Do you not think racism exists where white people are the minority?

That said anyone who thinks racism and casual racism don’t exist in the white western world population because it’s 2018 is way off the mark. It’s not as prevalent for sure but it’s still there.

As for the OP it’s just silly really....while the N word is without doubt racist it should be the artist perpetuating its use that should be getting pelters not the poor fan. And if it’s in the damn song then it’s in the damn song and if you happen to be at the concert where the song is being played AND asked by the artist to sing it then it’s beyond parody for her to castigated for singing it because of her colour.


I’m also not sure you can be offended by the use of a word when you use that word yourself. It’s a bit like catholics appropriating the word Fenian and using it to refer to themselves in popular culture.

I don't see racism against white people as a real thing.... Racism is based on deep systemic oppression on the back of centuries of power over the black race.....as far as any history I've read there has never been an equivalent where white people have never been persecuted for the colour of our skin— there is literally no comparison..none..

We are talking about the hurt of slavery, theft of land, culture, identity, empire building over centuries etc etc. These abuses of power over generations is what is part of black identity today -we can't look at the world through their eyes or feel the way they feel..What a white person may suffer is completely different , they may be very occasionally hurt by some words...it is in no way the same....




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[CropleyWasGod]

I don't see racism against white people as a real thing.... Racism is based on deep systemic oppression on the back of centuries of power over the black race.....as far as any history I've read there has never been an equivalent where white people have never been persecuted for the colour of our skin— there is literally no comparison..none..

We are talking about the hurt of slavery, theft of land, culture, identity, empire building over centuries etc etc. These abuses of power over generations is what is part of black identity today -we can't look at the world through their eyes or feel the way they feel..What a white person may suffer is completely different , they may be very occasionally hurt by some words...it is in no way the same....




Sent from my iPad using TapatalkI have experienced racism many times, particularly in African countries. It takes many forms, from fear of difference, to assumptions about ways of life. Flip that over, and there is little difference from some of the prejudices minorities in this country encounter.

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[bigwheel]

I have experienced racism many times, particularly in African countries. It takes many forms, from fear of difference, to assumptions about ways of life. Flip that over, and there is little difference from some of the prejudices minorities in this country encounter.

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I lived in a number of East African countries during the 90s and never once experienced any sort of racism...I'm sure you also encountered in Africa, your white skin resulting in you to get better service and attention than many locals....very common in Africa...anyway, if you read my point I still propose that there is a incomparable difference from the experience that minorities have suffered over centuries and individuals since their birth is compared to occasional encounters white people experience in different countries..


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[IGRIGI]

I don't see racism against white people as a real thing.... Racism is based on deep systemic oppression on the back of centuries of power over the black race.....as far as any history I've read there has never been an equivalent where white people have never been persecuted for the colour of our skin— there is literally no comparison..none..



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

White farmers in South Africa.

[bigwheel]

White farmers in South Africa.

That may have been crime, aggression , violence. But that is not racism - it was about taking back what they felt had been stolen from them in the first place

Im not talking about acts against white people - of course there will be some examples - I’m saying there has been no systemic racism against the white race. None

[Onceinawhile]

Just watched xzibit, wc and ice cube perform for a day time tv show.

Somehow didn't swear or drop the n word once.

I'm sure a college age white girl has it sooooo much tougher though.

[Stranraer]

I hear Pusha T has used the word "cracker" in his new song. Thoughts?

[CropleyWasGod]

I hear Pusha T has used the word "cracker" in his new song. Thoughts?

Frank Carson will be rolling about in his grave.

[calumhibee1]

I hear Pusha T has used the word "cracker" in his new song. Thoughts?

Not racist. You can’t be racist to white people dontcha know? Something to do with us already being more privileged than anyone else so we’re fair game.

[snooky]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44472277

.... and in other news, Edward II reportedly made racist comments against the Scots in July, 1314. Shame on him.
How far back do we go? Should we be judging someone's comments made almost 100 years ago on the values of today?

[Geo_1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44472277

.... and in other news, Edward II reportedly made racist comments against the Scots in July, 1314. Shame on him.
How far back do we go? Should we be judging someone's comments made almost 100 years ago on the values of today?

Just because an attitude was acceptable 100 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right.

Slavery was legal 200 years ago and everyone who could afford to had a slave. That doesn't mean it was acceptable, then or now.

[snooky]

Just because an attitude was acceptable 100 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right.

Slavery was legal 200 years ago and everyone who could afford to had a slave. That doesn't mean it was acceptable, then or now.

I'm not saying it was right. There was a difference in what sort of everyday language was in vogue through various bygone eras.
Inversely, what's acceptable now (which I don't like) is the level of swearing and explicit sex & violence that is on TV and in movies these days. Take that back to the 50's and they would be banned and/or jailed. My point being - different times, different standards, different rules.

Were we all wrong last year for driving at 30mph in the recent newly created 20mph zones?
Silly question I know, however used to illustrate my point.

[lapsedhibee]

Just because an attitude was acceptable 100 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right.

Slavery was legal 200 years ago and everyone who could afford to had a slave. That doesn't mean it was acceptable, then or now.

It was acceptable, though, up until the time that people stopped accepting it.

[danhibees1875]

It was acceptable, though, up until the time that people stopped accepting it.

I don't think people should be judged too harshly on their actions in the past when things were, broadly, acceptable.


In 100 years they might have completely outlawed the killing/eating of animals - the concept of steakhouses and burger restaurants an indictment of the reprehensible early 21st century. No matter how acceptible and tasty these things are today.

[snooky]

I don't think people should be judged too harshly on their actions in the past when things were, broadly, acceptable.


In 100 years they might have completely outlawed the killing/eating of animals - the concept of steakhouses and burger restaurants an indictment of the reprehensible early 21st century. No matter how acceptible and tasty these things are today.

在一百年中，我们都会用中文写作 :wink:

[Geo_1875]

It was acceptable, though, up until the time that people stopped accepting it.

I don't think the slaves ever accepted it.

[lapsedhibee]

I don't think the slaves ever accepted it.

What makes you say that?

[One Day Soon]

在一百年中，我们都会用中文写作 :wink:

Totally.

[wpj]

What makes you say that?

Dunno if this is a whoosh moment but why would anyone accept slavery and forced submission as a norm?

[lapsedhibee]

Dunno if this is a whoosh moment but why would anyone accept slavery and forced submission as a norm?
You possibly think that having separate bus seats for black people and white people in the US is beyond the pale, but up until Rosa Parks :not worth did her thing it was accepted, by black people and white people. I do not see the point in berating current white people because past white people accepted that system - to me that makes no more sense than berating past black people for not being Rosa Parks.

[Geo_1875]

You possibly think that having separate bus seats for black people and white people in the US is beyond the pale, but up until Rosa Parks :not worth did her thing it was accepted, by black people and white people. I do not see the point in berating current white people because past white people accepted that system - to me that makes no more sense than berating past black people for not being Rosa Parks.

There is a massive difference between accepting something and doing it while in fear for your life.

[calumhibee1]

I don't think the slaves ever accepted it.

Slavery was an absolute disgrace, but how do we know that the slaves didn’t accept it to some extent? If it was all they’d ever known, what’s to say they didn’t just accept it as the way things are?

It’s easy to say with hindsight that they would surely never have accepted being slaves, but if that’s what happened to everyone they knew and it was expected, they maybe weren’t particularly resistant.

It’s not really fair to hold people of the past up against modern standards. Who’s to say people in 50 years won’t be working 20 hour weeks and asking why we allowed ourselves to be enslaved by our employers for 40 hour weeks, when in reality, we don’t have an issue with it. I’m obviously not comparing slavery and 40 hour weeks by the way.

[Hibrandenburg]

Slavery was an absolute disgrace, but how do we know that the slaves didn’t accept it to some extent? If it was all they’d ever known, what’s to say they didn’t just accept it as the way things are?

It’s easy to say with hindsight that they would surely never have accepted being slaves, but if that’s what happened to everyone they knew and it was expected, they maybe weren’t particularly resistant.

It’s not really fair to hold people of the past up against modern standards. Who’s to say people in 50 years won’t be working 20 hour weeks and asking why we allowed ourselves to be enslaved by our employers for 40 hour weeks, when in reality, we don’t have an issue with it. I’m obviously not comparing slavery and 40 hour weeks by the way.

Could the same be said for the millions of Jews who marched side by side into the gas chambers with their compatriots? They must have accepted it because it was just part of the way things were done back then.

Ridiculous logic.

[snooky]

Totally.

Thanks for making the effort. :wink:. :aok: