What will it take for someone to win the league other than Celtic?

[LustForLeith]

And could Hibs ever be that team?!?

Just had a look at the league table and Celtic were only nine points above Aberdeen and fifteen above us.

While Celtic were never in danger, they’ve not performed as well as they had in other seasons.

It’s going to be hard for other clubs to compete withrh Celtic on a regular basis due to their resources, but if Celtic aren’t firing on all cylinders, then can a team close the gap?

I suppose for real competition the team in question is going to have to be ‘the best of the rest.’ It’s been tight amoungst Killie, Hibs, Rangers and Aberdeen to establish fourth to second this season. If there was a team to emerge as challengers then they’ll clearly need to escape from the chasing pack.

You never know what’s going to happen with Gerrard at Rangers. Aberdeen have done well in the split but not had it all their own way and Killie will do well to keep ahold of Clarke and recapture this seasons form.

I know we’re going to be rebuilding and it seemed that Lennon would be leaving recently, but with the crowds back, a great stadium, brilliantly facilities, a young squad who’ve just won the double, can we be the team to break free from the chasing pack and challenge Celtic?

Cost nothing to dream!

[greenlex]

Larger league with two fixtures a year against the old firm.

[Scottie]

£20 million:cb

[Stranraer]

I agree that there should be a bigger league, without a split. Gerrard won't succeed at Rangers and Aberdeen or us will finish 2nd next year I think.

[Ozyhibby]

It will require the league to decide that a salary cap is needed. Celtic are using vast sums of money earned outside Scotland in the champions Leaugue to buy the spfl every season.
It’s up to the other clubs to decide how long they want to put up with that.
The same thing is happening all over Europe. It will probably be league abroad that finally says enough is enough, we want a proper competition. Others will then follow.


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[emerald green]

It will require the league to decide that a salary cap is needed. Celtic are using vast sums of money earned outside Scotland in the champions Leaugue to buy the spfl every season.
It’s up to the other clubs to decide how long they want to put up with that.
The same thing is happening all over Europe. It will probably be league abroad that finally says enough is enough, we want a proper competition. Others will then follow.


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Something along these lines might work, along with league reconstruction of some sort.

If things remain as they are at the moment, the only thing that will stop Celtic winning the title for the foreseeable future is a miracle, or failing that a very very rich person or institution to invest huge sums of money to equal or better Celtic's income and resources.

[calumhibee1]

And could Hibs ever be that team?!?

Just had a look at the league table and Celtic were only nine points above Aberdeen and fifteen above us.

While Celtic were never in danger, they’ve not performed as well as they had in other seasons.

It’s going to be hard for other clubs to compete withrh Celtic on a regular basis due to their resources, but if Celtic aren’t firing on all cylinders, then can a team close the gap?

I suppose for real competition the team in question is going to have to be ‘the best of the rest.’ It’s been tight amoungst Killie, Hibs, Rangers and Aberdeen to establish fourth to second this season. If there was a team to emerge as challengers then they’ll clearly need to escape from the chasing pack.

You never know what’s going to happen with Gerrard at Rangers. Aberdeen have done well in the split but not had it all their own way and Killie will do well to keep ahold of Clarke and recapture this seasons form.

I know we’re going to be rebuilding and it seemed that Lennon would be leaving recently, but with the crowds back, a great stadium, brilliantly facilities, a young squad who’ve just won the double, can we be the team to break free from the chasing pack and challenge Celtic?

Cost nothing to dream!

Teams like Aberdeen and Rangers taking more points off them. We’ve done our bit this season by only allowing them 5 points from us,Killie and Hearts have aswell to an extent, but Aberdeen and Rangers haven’t picked up nearly as many as they should have off Celtic - or at least drawn enough of their games against them to stop Celtic picking them up. The two of them should be looking to give up no more than about 7 points to Celtic.

If Rangers had won one of the games at Ibrox and Aberdeen won one of the games at Pittodrie then Celtic would have been 6 points worse off and Aberdeen would have been 3 points better off, closing the gap. Fair enough Celtic have taken their foot off the gas a bit but that’s just two games that have had a huge bearing.

The smaller teams in the league won’t take much off them if anything at all, so it’s down to the top 6 to do it.

[Mibbes Aye]

It will require the league to decide that a salary cap is needed. Celtic are using vast sums of money earned outside Scotland in the champions Leaugue to buy the spfl every season.
It’s up to the other clubs to decide how long they want to put up with that.
The same thing is happening all over Europe. It will probably be league abroad that finally says enough is enough, we want a proper competition. Others will then follow.


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I think that's true but I also think it would be illegal under EU regulations - essentially every EU country would have to agree to a capping framework in some way, shape or form.

Bizarrely, it means that Brexit might create the opportunity for just such a thing. We would no longer be bound by EU 'restriction of trade' deals and could introduce a salary cap but we would be shafted by massively-hiked flight prices when we went to watch the Hibs in Europe :greengrin

[Onceinawhile]

Kamberi, McLaren and Allan in for a whole season next year and we'll do it.

More seriously? About 20 million of transfers and a huge amount of wages. Unfortunately it's either the rangers who will do it or someone else with a foreign millionaire.

[seanshow]

A tv rights deal distributed equally that isnt a quarter of one percent of our southern neighbours would be start.

[Ozyhibby]

I think that's true but I also think it would be illegal under EU regulations - essentially every EU country would have to agree to a capping framework in some way, shape or form.

Bizarrely, it means that Brexit might create the opportunity for just such a thing. We would no longer be bound by EU 'restriction of trade' deals and could introduce a salary cap but we would be shafted by massively-hiked flight prices when we went to watch the Hibs in Europe :greengrin

There are no EU restrictions in the way. Rugby league and rugby union both operate salary caps in the UK just now.
It’s only our lack of imagination that stops us.


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[Eyrie]

It will require the league to decide that a salary cap is needed. Celtic are using vast sums of money earned outside Scotland in the champions Leaugue to buy the spfl every season.
It’s up to the other clubs to decide how long they want to put up with that.
The same thing is happening all over Europe. It will probably be league abroad that finally says enough is enough, we want a proper competition. Others will then follow.


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Any suggestion of a salary cap is wildly unrealistic.

If we have one in Scotland, our clubs won't be able to compete in Europe. And I can't see one being introduced in Europe. If it did, then the biggest spending clubs would simply set up an international league and use the domestic leagues as feeders.

[ancient hibee]

I would imagine that one of the joys of being subject to European Laws and Directives is that salary caps are a restraint of trade.

[Ozyhibby]

I would imagine that one of the joys of being subject to European Laws and Directives is that salary caps are a restraint of trade.

There is no EU law prohibiting this. Sports leagues have an exemption.


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[nonshinyfinish]

A Leicester-style upset is possible, just similarly unlikely. Like Leicester, you'd probably need:

- The top teams (just Celtc in the cas of the SPFL) to have a relatively bad season
- No significant injuries
- Make a few inspired out-of-nowhere signings
- Have multiple players overperform vs what would we expected of them
- Edge lots of tight games

Basically have pretty much everything go your way, all in one season.

[Ozyhibby]

Any suggestion of a salary cap is wildly unrealistic.

If we have one in Scotland, our clubs won't be able to compete in Europe. And I can't see one being introduced in Europe. If it did, then the biggest spending clubs would simply set up an international league and use the domestic leagues as feeders.

A salary cap set at £10m per season would only affect Celtic and I don’t really care how they get on in Europe.
Our wage bill would be unaffected.


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[ancient hibee]

There is no EU law prohibiting this. Sports leagues have an exemption.


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Interesting.What about the Human rights issue?

[Mibbes Aye]

There are no EU restrictions in the way. Rugby league and rugby union both operate salary caps in the UK just now.
It’s only our lack of imagination that stops us.


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I would imagine that one of the joys of being subject to European Laws and Directives is that salary caps are a restraint of trade.

This was my understanding C, it's challengeable as restraint of trade, I guess in the same way that Bosman challenged his contract in the mid-Nineties.

Happy to stand corrected however. It would certainly make for an interesting league if we had American-style rules about parity in professional sports. The country that epitomises capitalism has a practically socialist approach to how teams recruit players.

[Eyrie]

A salary cap set at £10m per season would only affect Celtic and I don’t really care how they get on in Europe.
Our wage bill would be unaffected.


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In which case it wouldn't have that much effect on the outcome of our league if Celtc (and probably a well run Sevco) can still outspend the rest of us.

And admit it - you enjoy seeing them being cut down to size in Europe :greengrin

[Scooter]

Impossible with Rodgers still there. Yeah they might not have had a good a season as before but they have had some amount of injurys to deal with

[Ozyhibby]

In which case it wouldn't have that much effect on the outcome of our league if Celtc (and probably a well run Sevco) can still outspend the rest of us.

And admit it - you enjoy seeing them being cut down to size in Europe :greengrin

Just said £10m of the top of my head. £5m would still not affect 10 of the 12 teams in the league.



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[Billy Whizz]

Celtic really need to invest in centre backs a top class goalie, if they do they will continue to dominate for a fair bit

[erin go bragh]

If we had started the season with the squad we assembled after the winter break , we wouldn’t have been far away from winning the league.

[hibbytam]

It's hard. I think if we had the team we're ending the season with for the whole duration of a season, with few injuries, and Celtic taking their eye off the ball, maybe getting through the group stages of the champions league, and so take their eye off the domestics.


But even then you suspect Celtc will have a higher gear if they need it.

[snooky]

I think when Dundee United won the League they only used 13 players. If a settled team gets lucky with injuries and bookings then they could do it. Always remember when the Rangers are in contention you face forces outwith opposing teams

[Ozyhibby]

Another advantage Celtic have is if they play us we have to drop Scott Allan and if they play Aberdeen they have to drop Ryan Christie.
Rules need to change to stop them stock piling players.


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[ancient hibee]

Another advantage Celtic have is if they play us we have to drop Scott Allan and if they play Aberdeen they have to drop Ryan Christie.
Rules need to change to stop them stock piling players.


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Exactly.If a club is prepared to take on part of a wage bill there is no reason why they should be prohibited from playing him.

[jgl07]

£20 million:cb

Try putting a zero on the end and you will be closer. The financial advantage that Celtc have is huge. It amounts to something like £40 to £60 million a year over Sevco!
There are proposals to do just that because of the vast numbers of players that Chelsea and others have on loan. The clubs will get around that by transferring players with ‘buy back’ options.

Incidentally the rule does not apply to international loans. Patrick Roberts has been on loan at Celtic for the past two years and played for and scored against parent club Manchester City in the Champions League last season.

[hibbytam]

Another advantage Celtic have is if they play us we have to drop Scott Allan and if they play Aberdeen they have to drop Ryan Christie.
Rules need to change to stop them stock piling players.


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Maybe some limit on the number of players a club can register in a season/at one time? Probably make it over 21 year olds, just so you're not preventing development players.

[Mibbes Aye]

A Leicester-style upset is possible, just similarly unlikely. Like Leicester, you'd probably need:

- The top teams (just Celtc in the cas of the SPFL) to have a relatively bad season
- No significant injuries
- Make a few inspired out-of-nowhere signings
- Have multiple players overperform vs what would we expected of them
- Edge lots of tight games

Basically have pretty much everything go your way, all in one season.

I'm sure somebody did that in the mid-Eighties, my memory is just a bit hazy, but with all those factors the challenging team would likely just need to avoid defeat on the last day?

[Ozyhibby]

It’s up to the clubs to change this if they want to. There is nothing stopping them. It’s up to fans to start asking what type of competition do we want to watch?
It’s just a procession now for Celtic every year, is that what we want? Is that what Hibs want?


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[wookie70]

It might be unlikely but we have secured 6 more points in our last 16 games(the ones played in 2018 or since we had strikers that get in the box) Killie also had a long spell where they have picked up more points than Celtic and I suspect Aberdeen are the same. If you can go half a season then why not a whole one. If Leicester can do it then why not Hibs.

[Greencore]

Investment and time.

[Swedish hibee]

Summer football😂😂😂 Me thinks celtic don't like playing in nice weather.. re their last few results!

Nah. It comes down to money. And lack of for every other team.

[SanFranHibs]

I agree that there should be a bigger league, without a split. Gerrard won't succeed at Rangers and Aberdeen or us will finish 2nd next year I think.

I think the top 4 will be the same next season and hopefully we can change position with at least one of the three that finished above us this season. I know we have a bit of 're-building' to do but I think this year Lennon proved he can bring in several players who will make an immediate impact. I did not voice what I felt, though others have, that Whittaker getting 3 years was not a good piece of business. And I do not wish to disparage him. I think in some games he has shown his skill and experience, but alas when the legs go you don't want to be facing a speedy winger 12 years younger than you. But everyone, including Whitty, contributed.

But overall if we can get Allan back, have Kamberi, Slivka, Barker, Boyle and McGinn, a couple of the young lads and Lennon can get in 2 or 3 more of Kamberi's level, I see no reason why we should not be battling The Rangers 2012 and Aberdeen all the way.

I don't think Man City will block Barkers career. He is hardly likely to command a great fee and the investment in him is not likely to make a dent in their budget. Maybe we could get him permanently? McGinn? Hard to say. Does anyone really expect the phones at ER to be ringing off the hook regarding him? Maybe a swap for Allan?

I have no idea, as is obvious, but it is so exciting that we are now looking to consolidate our position in the top 4 and push on. I said at the start of the season I thought 2nd place was possible and although we fell short, the fact is, we had it in our own hands with three games to play !! I see no reason why we should lower our hopes.

:flag::flag:

P.S. time for a Lenny plane emoji.

[AndyM_1875]

Another advantage Celtic have is if they play us we have to drop Scott Allan and if they play Aberdeen they have to drop Ryan Christie.
Rules need to change to stop them stock piling players.


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Stockpiling players is an actual business strategy that some large clubs use.
The obvious example is Chelsea who sign players they are fully aware will never play for them at top level but they buy them up, showcase them on loan with the borrowing club paying much if not all of the salary and then sell them on.

Manchester City and Celtic are also guilty of this although few clubs do it to the extreme that Chelsea do.

[KerPlunk]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/may/14/juventus-extend-my7h-a-success-to-celebrate-or-a-cause-for-lament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Article from today’s Guardian, similar theme re. Juventus.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

This is a big bear of mine (though I’m not sure if I’m actually correct - hopefully a statto on here can help)

I’m pretty sure Rangers of the initial Walter Smith and Advocaat era’s and Celtic under Martin O Neill won the league earlier and by a larger margin than Rodgers did this season? For me it seems there is only this Big talk of a gulf between the teams as Rangers aren’t challenging them?

[Jamesie]

A Leicester-style upset is possible, just similarly unlikely. Like Leicester, you'd probably need:

- The top teams (just Celtc in the cas of the SPFL) to have a relatively bad season
- No significant injuries
- Make a few inspired out-of-nowhere signings
- Have multiple players overperform vs what would we expected of them
- Edge lots of tight games

Basically have pretty much everything go your way, all in one season.

I wonder if a Leicester scenario is possible upbhwre though. Would the powers that be allow the SPL title to leave Glasgow again? Bear in mind it’s circa 35 years since it did!

[marleyhib]

Are Celtic really that good ? Rogers is a decent manager but if he leaves and they get the next appointment wrong it’s unlikely but surely possible.

[danhibees1875]

This is a big bear of mine (though I’m not sure if I’m actually correct - hopefully a statto on here can help)

I’m pretty sure Rangers of the initial Walter Smith and Advocaat era’s and Celtic under Martin O Neill won the league earlier and by a larger margin than Rodgers did this season? For me it seems there is only this Big talk of a gulf between the teams as Rangers aren’t challenging them?

I agree, the gap isn't actually huge at all. I just think it's hard to tell how much of that is just them coasting in second gear though.

Unfortunately, I think the answer is that it will just take time and then eventually the rangers will win it.

At the moment, they're hasn't been any evidence to suggest the rangers arent still there for the taking though.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

To answer the question in the thread title - a miracle.

[Liberal Hibby]

Larger league with two fixtures a year against the old firm.

Completely disagree - the last time the league was won by anyone other than the uglies was in the 1980s when the SPL had ten teams and 20% got relegated each year. What it took was two good non-OF teams both to take points off them. A single challenger won't be able to do it alone.

[SideBurns]

Completely disagree - the last time the league was won by anyone other than the uglies was in the 1980s when the SPL had ten teams and 20% got relegated each year. What it took was two good non-OF teams both to take points off them. A single challenger won't be able to do it alone.
Fergie & Jim McLean took sides to Glasgow and beat them both, and also did the same at Pittodrie & Tannadice. When Hearts peaked in the mid-80s they did the same.

The obvious difference was that the financial disparity was relatively insignificant; apart from when playing each other, crowds at Ibrox & Parkheid weren't much above 20,000 (particularly in the pre-Souness days when the Huns sometimes struggled to get to 20,000 as they were keech). I'm saying all this from memory and in the knowledge a statto could be along any minute to discredit my argument!

[Waxy]

If we had Kamberi and Mclaren from the start then you never know. However we were all wanting Stokesy back so we cant complain.

[CraigHibee]

any fee we get for mcginn and ambrose (if they both go) if they are invested wisely then we would be in with a good shout imo

[Liberal Hibby]

It will require the league to decide that a salary cap is needed. Celtic are using vast sums of money earned outside Scotland in the champions Leaugue to buy the spfl every season.
It’s up to the other clubs to decide how long they want to put up with that.
The same thing is happening all over Europe. It will probably be league abroad that finally says enough is enough, we want a proper competition. Others will then follow.


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I'd prefer tradeable salary caps. Say you set the SPL cap at £4 million, but allowed teams to purchase unused amounts from any team who would trade with you. So Celtc with a £30m wage bill would have to buy unused caps from smaller teams (say £3m from ten other teams). Smaller teams would compete to undercut each other to sell their unused caps to seal a deal (so they might sell £2m of their cap for say £200,000), but it would result in more money being circulated at all levels in the league as the bigger teams pay to increase their caps to their budgets.

[Onion]

Sevco Board would love to know. They think it's Steven Gerrard :greengrin

[Diclonius]

I'd comfortably bet that the Premiership title won't leave Glasgow for at least another 50 years.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd prefer tradeable salary caps. Say you set the SPL cap at £4 million, but allowed teams to purchase unused amounts from any team who would trade with you. So Celtc with a £30m wage bill would have to buy unused caps from smaller teams (say £3m from ten other teams). Smaller teams would compete to undercut each other to sell their unused caps to seal a deal (so they might sell £2m of their cap for say £200,000), but it would result in more money being circulated at all levels in the league as the bigger teams pay to increase their caps to their budgets.

There are lots of great systems out there. Needs the fans to want a fairer league first.


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[jacomo]

I'd prefer tradeable salary caps. Say you set the SPL cap at £4 million, but allowed teams to purchase unused amounts from any team who would trade with you. So Celtc with a £30m wage bill would have to buy unused caps from smaller teams (say £3m from ten other teams). Smaller teams would compete to undercut each other to sell their unused caps to seal a deal (so they might sell £2m of their cap for say £200,000), but it would result in more money being circulated at all levels in the league as the bigger teams pay to increase their caps to their budgets.


You might be onto something there. There’s a concern that smaller clubs would deliberately underspend in order to sell to a big club, weakening league competition still further, but it’s worth looking at.

Another idea would be to compel the Champions to only sign players from their own league for the following two transfer windows.

It will be scuppered due to restraint of trade or something, but it would also help to spread money around the league.

[21.05.2016]

Someone has to stop Celtics league winning run at some point. My guess would be probably Rangers once they invest and get their **** together, however I still can't see that happening for quite some time.

Celtic unfortunately will more than likely get their 10 in a row and possibly beyond that.

[Crazyhorse]

And could Hibs ever be that team?!?

Just had a look at the league table and Celtic were only nine points above Aberdeen and fifteen above us.

While Celtic were never in danger, they’ve not performed as well as they had in other seasons.

It’s going to be hard for other clubs to compete withrh Celtic on a regular basis due to their resources, but if Celtic aren’t firing on all cylinders, then can a team close the gap?

I suppose for real competition the team in question is going to have to be ‘the best of the rest.’ It’s been tight amoungst Killie, Hibs, Rangers and Aberdeen to establish fourth to second this season. If there was a team to emerge as challengers then they’ll clearly need to escape from the chasing pack.

You never know what’s going to happen with Gerrard at Rangers. Aberdeen have done well in the split but not had it all their own way and Killie will do well to keep ahold of Clarke and recapture this seasons form.

I know we’re going to be rebuilding and it seemed that Lennon would be leaving recently, but with the crowds back, a great stadium, brilliantly facilities, a young squad who’ve just won the double, can we be the team to break free from the chasing pack and challenge Celtic?

Cost nothing to dream!

To answer the question. Probably Celtic leaving the league....
or Parkhead falling into a giant sinkhole with the whole team and Desmond inside it at the start of next season.

[greenlex]

Completely disagree - the last time the league was won by anyone other than the uglies was in the 1980s when the SPL had ten teams and 20% got relegated each year. What it took was two good non-OF teams both to take points off them. A single challenger won't be able to do it alone.
All before bosman, stupid money and a huge financial gap. Two exceptional managers as well. I agree a single team won’t be able to do it we need two or three up there taking the points of them too. Less games and fewer points against them will also help. It would be down to his you fared against everyone else if you could compete over 4 games against them instead of the current 8. That’s more likely.

[Daydreamer]

Folks, I personally dont think the gap this season is as big as some think. Last season there was a gap of 37 points between Celtic and Rangers. This season only 12. Yeh I know there was a few slips in the end but put it this way if The rangers had have beaten Celtic twice instead of the other way they would have been even on points. If we had'nt have lost the stupid home games against Hamilton, St Johnstone we would'nt be far away either. I said on another thread it's imperative that we keep McGinn for another season even if it means £8k a week to keep him to sign another year on top of the year he has and anything could happen.

[YanYansen]

I'd comfortably bet that the Premiership title won't leave Glasgow for at least another 50 years.

I agree. I don't actually believe it ever will.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Like any sport, longer matches/more meetings gives the better player/team the advantage. I'd have a bigger league with only two meetings a season but it's a big ask

[where'stheslope]

The problem with the Celtic scenario at the moment is, with the money they get from competing in the champions league alone is more than 10 of the top league generate in 1 season!!!
So if we do a great job of getting into 2nd place, then all they do is unsettle us by talking about our players in the mid season transfer window!
They and Rangers (when they could afford it) had done this for years, but at the moment only Celtic have the money to try this now.
There was a piece on BBC Scotland sport website, that it was not the big transfers and wages that won the last 2 leagues, what world are some reporters living in?
Biggest wage bill in Scottish football (Celtic).
Highest attendances in Scottish football (Celtic).
Only team in Scotland still buying £ Million players (Celtic).

[One Day]

Sevco Board would love to know. They think it's Steven Gerrard :greengrin

I hope its not

[IGRIGI]

It more teams took the game to Celtic and pressed them high up the pitch we'd have a closer league, looking at their defeats this season it's been when a team is willing to have a go instead of Levein 460ing it right from the get go.

[.Sean.]

Larger league with two fixtures a year against the old firm.
Never happen as too many diddy clubs pander and suck upto the Old Firm in exchane for them filling two stands in their Lego set stadiums a couple times each a season.

[Mr White]

It more teams took the game to Celtic and pressed them high up the pitch we'd have a closer league, looking at their defeats this season it's been when a team is willing to have a go instead of Levein 460ing it right from the get go.

It sucks to admit it but Levein is the only manager in Scotland to have beaten Celtc by more than a goal in the last 2 seasons. And his side did it quite convincingly in that game it has to be said.

Still, I agree that too many teams set out with a damage limitation approach when facing Celtc.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd comfortably bet that the Premiership title won't leave Glasgow for at least another 50 years.


I'm going to bring this post back up in 50 years, to see if you are right.

[where'stheslope]

It more teams took the game to Celtic and pressed them high up the pitch we'd have a closer league, looking at their defeats this season it's been when a team is willing to have a go instead of Levein 460ing it right from the get go.
Am I wrong or did the Yams not stuff Celtic 4-0 to end their 69 game undefeated????