When the fun stops, bet more

[Hibbyradge]

Revealed: how bookies use AI to keep gamblers hooked

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/30/bookies-using-ai-to-keep-gamblers-hooked-insiders-say?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Killiehibbie]

The way they are allowed to operate is disgusting. I get bombarded with emails offering casino bonuses from bookies who won't allow me to have a bet on a horse.

[Colr]

Good piece onR4 the other week about how they give gamblers on a losing run free credit to keep them betting.

[calumhibee1]

Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? I’ve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.

[lord bunberry]

Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? I’ve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.
Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.

[snooky]

I never bet. :coffee:

[calumhibee1]

Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.

I’m surprised places like Benidorm, Magaluf and Tenerife aren’t absolutely rammed with them to be honest.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.

There are a few Ladbrokes shops in Brussels.

[Smartie]

I think they've got stricter laws on betting online in Spain.

I've tried to get onto UK betting sites when on holiday and been prevented from doing so.

[lord bunberry]

I think they've got stricter laws on betting online in Spain.

I've tried to get onto UK betting sites when on holiday and been prevented from doing so.
It’s weird in Spain. Some sites seem to work and others don’t.

[Hibrandenburg]

Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.

Most bookies over here are constantly empty. They're very popular for money laundering purposes.

[lord bunberry]

Most bookies over here are constantly empty. They're very popular for money laundering purposes.
I remember being in the bookies in Munich during Oktoberfest. It was still fairly quiet, but the German punters were right into the chariot racing. It was quite funny watching it, having never seen it before

[wpj]

Nice bookies in Austria, can watch live football with a beer as well as lose all your money.

[Steve-O]

Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? I’ve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.

Only one chain here in NZ, most money goes back into NZ Racing I think. Most branches are actually IN pubs. There are nowhere near the numbers seen in the UK.

[RyeSloan]

Only one chain here in NZ, most money goes back into NZ Racing I think. Most branches are actually IN pubs. There are nowhere near the numbers seen in the UK.

It’s the betting machines that have driven the bookies expansion in the U.K.

The machines are the main cash cow but they are limited to 4 per shop. So hey presto they just opened more shops.

If and when the stake levels are cut on these machines and the profit levels cut accordingly you will see a significant retrench of the number of physical bookie shops in the UK

[calumhibee1]

It’s the betting machines that have driven the bookies expansion in the U.K.

The machines are the main cash cow but they are limited to 4 per shop. So hey presto they just opened more shops.

If and when the stake levels are cut on these machines and the profit levels cut accordingly you will see a significant retrench of the number of physical bookie shops in the UK

The law should be changed to 4 within a certain radius.

[IGRIGI]

From what I remember from living in the Netherlands it's very strict over there compared to back in Scotland, government controls it and when I lived there the maximum bet was 10 euros.

[Ryan69]

From what I remember from living in the Netherlands it's very strict over there compared to back in Scotland, government controls it and when I lived there the maximum bet was 10 euros.

They still have betting shops....but nowhere near as many.
You can however place a bet in the supermarket,corner shop and post office.
I used to play toto alot.

[Wembley67]

Well that's going to hit bookies profits hard...

Maximum stake for fixed-odds betting terminals cut to £2

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/17/maximum-stake-for-fixed-odds-betting-terminals-cut-to-2?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[stoneyburn hibs]

Well that's going to hit bookies profits hard...

Maximum stake for fixed-odds betting terminals cut to £2

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/17/maximum-stake-for-fixed-odds-betting-terminals-cut-to-2?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Good news, I really didn't think that they'd drop it to £2

[Pretty Boy]

Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.

[Geo_1875]

Good news, I really didn't think that they'd drop it to £2

I still don't think they will. Industry pressure will lead to a compromise.

[One Day Soon]

Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.


There's certainly a whiff of the rugby/football boozing and behaviour hypocrisy about it.

[lord bunberry]

Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.
You can also add in online casinos to that.

[heretoday]

We're right hedonists in this country. The drinks companies and bookmakers are making a fortune taking our hard-earned (or inherited) cash off us.

[pacoluna]

Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.


That's a staggeringly ignorant post.

[Pretty Boy]

That's a staggeringly ignorant post.

Or you've misunderstood it.

It's poor policy that targets one very specific type of gambling because it's viewed as the way 'poor people' gamble. Someone with a gambling problem with £500 to burn will still find a way to do that even with a maximum stake on FOBTs. That's speaking from experience. I could walk into a bookies any evening of the week and spend £100 on a horse race, £100 on a dog race, £100 on a virtual race, £100 on 49s and £100 on a football acca in less than 10 minutes.

It's populist, nanny state politics. If the government were serious about dealing with gambling they would tighten the casino regulations that have been consistently relaxed in the last 2 decades, set a maximum spend per session and ban gambling sponsorship and advertisment in the same way they have with tobacco.

The bookies will paint this as a disaster but they'll just increase the virtual racing, essentially FOBTs in disguise, and push more people online and to their bingo sites which aren't covered by this legislation.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I worked in the betting industry up until 1997 and I decided to leave after we had a briefing from the MD who said that the business had to use horse racing and greyhounds and football as the loss leader to get punters through the door. We were advised to talk up slot machines and betting on lottery numbers and given targets for them. In my time in the business I can remember having to actively ban punters who won too much and we had to log customers who bet large stakes but I was never once told to ban a punter who was losing a lot.

[stu in nottingham]

I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.


Someone with a gambling problem with £500 to burn will still find a way to do that even with a maximum stake on FOBTs. That's speaking from experience. I could walk into a bookies any evening of the week and spend £100 on a horse race, £100 on a dog race, £100 on a virtual race, £100 on 49s and £100 on a football acca in less than 10 minutes.

That's not most generally true actually although it may be for you. I have counselled literally hundreds of gamblers over the past few years and it's far more prevalent that if a singular, most common habit is treated in an individual then it's rare for gamblers to diversify into other forms of gambling.


It's populist, nanny state politics. If the government were serious about dealing with gambling they would tighten the casino regulations that have been consistently relaxed in the last 2 decades, set a maximum spend per session and ban gambling sponsorship and advertisment in the same way they have with tobacco.

The bookies will paint this as a disaster but they'll just increase the virtual racing, essentially FOBTs in disguise, and push more people online and to their bingo sites which aren't covered by this legislation.

I agree that the Government are not serious about tackling gambling and the reasons you give are just some of the evidence for that. What would possibly change the face of betting if FOBTs were seriously tackled would be that there might be far less of a presence on the high street. Many, may betting shops were only opened to accommodate yet another four FOBTs and with stiff regulation of the machines and online betting remaining it would seem there would be less need for shops.

The bookmakers would possibly like to push online gambling more but then I don't think they could push it any less. Incidentally, a new self-exclusion scheme has very recently been initiated. It's called 'Gamstop', for anyone interested. The majority of UK gambling companies are signed up to it and my understanding is that legislation will follow shortly to order every UK company to join. It's a fairly simple online process for individuals to sign up for a choice of self exclusion periods. As the remaining gambling companies sign in to the agreement participants in the scheme will be excluded from those companies too. Of course there are always ways around everything, including for instance using a non-UK company but part of any deterrent is in the 'thinking time' a deterrent offers to reconsider gambling activity when the impulse is present.

GAMSTOP
https://www.gamstop.co.uk/

[Hibbyradge]

That's a staggeringly ignorant post.

Why do you say that?

It made sense to me when I read it the first time and it makes sense now.

I don't think I'm ignorant, but happy to learn.

[calumhibee1]

As Stu In Nottingham said, I think most of the time people have a gambling niche - I’ve spent a reasonable amount of money on the FOTB machines in the past (haven’t touched them for years, have no interest now) but I never had any interest in betting on animals etc or the lottery things they do. At the time if they’d taken the machines out the shop I just wouldn’t have been there, I wouldn’t have been interested in the other forms of gambling.

What I always found strange was that I played roulette on they daft machines, but when I go to the casino (or when I went to the casinos when I did gamble on the FOBT) I have no interest in gambling at all, I couldn’t enjoy casinos for some reason. My vice was definitely FOBT and FOBT only.

[WeeRussell]

As Stu In Nottingham said, I think most of the time people have a gambling niche - I’ve spent a reasonable amount of money on the FOTB machines in the past (haven’t touched them for years, have no interest now) but I never had any interest in betting on animals etc or the lottery things they do. At the time if they’d taken the machines out the shop I just wouldn’t have been there, I wouldn’t have been interested in the other forms of gambling.

What I always found strange was that I played roulette on they daft machines, but when I go to the casino (or when I went to the casinos when I did gamble on the FOBT) I have no interest in gambling at all, I couldn’t enjoy casinos for some reason. My vice was definitely FOBT and FOBT only.

I can relate to that in that I'm kind of the opposite. Love my horses and various sports betting but very rarely play casino style games (although have done in my younger years). I've also seen me end up in the casino on a night out and sit at the bar while my friends (who generally don't bet as much as me) go off and play various casino games!

However I think someone with a 'serious gambling problem' will find a way to punt their money regardless of what machines and stakes are available.