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sadtom
27-04-2018, 10:37 AM
No. Not the type synonymous with derhun or the diets. More what 'creative' way can we get round our own 'wage cap'.
For me i dont think there is much requirement for us to sign many new faces in the summer...IF we can retain the services of the squad we have.
Too much change might upset the harmony.

It seems to be a happy camp. With everyone enjoying themselves and heading in the right direction with room to grow. At an exciting time, hopefully European football to look forward to. Great facilities and a vibrant cosmopolitan city to live in.

If its true that Kenny M may be coming in as cover but more as a coach to our young strike force then fair enough.
If there is truth in the Crawford deal then i think there is no more need for any midfielders.
Perhaps one more signing a left sided defender to compete with PH and LS, which would probably see Rherras moved on.

The priorities for me are SJM any DMcG (back to them in a mo). Getting Scotty A, Flo and Jamie signed on permanent deals. Hopefully securing the services of Barker again for another season.

So what can we do regarding SJM and Dylan?
If Dylan goes now we get nowt. So if he did commit then we sell in a year any transfer fee would be pure profit.
SJM is still improving and by the sounds of it isnt adverse to the possibility of staying a wee bit longer.
Firstly we make both of them offers at the max of our 'cap', persuade John to extend a year and Dylan to sign a 2 year deal. Then we hold onto them for another season, allowing them to improve and giving them the belief and confidence that we are building a team around them.
We also give both a cast iron guarantee that they can leave next year with a year left on their contracts.

Could it be possible that we offer both 40% up to say a max of 1 million of any future fee we receive (after deduction of the 20%(?) fee due to St Mirren, if this is a correct amount). Making it in both parties interest that they go for maximum offer?

For arguments sake, we have put a price tag of 5 mill on SJM, though the fact is is suspect we would probably accept half that. But if he has another stellar season , who knows what size offer we could receive?
Given those 2 hypothetical figures. if we did get 5 for John then St M get 1 mill, SJM gets 1 mill and the club get 3 mill - still well ahead of what i think we would accept now.
If he went for 2.5 then St M get 500k SJM gets 800k and the club get 1.2 mill. This would be the club possibly taking a 800k hit on what we could get now (2.5M less 500 k to the Buddies) but it does mean we retain his services for another year and some of the loss is hopefully offset by another successful season and the financial rewards that come with that.

In Dylans case there is no other club receiving a pay off so potentially a 2 mill move in a years time would see him get 800k and the club 1.2 M. If a fee of 2.5 or above gets bid then the player gets 1M and the club get the rest. All profit on what is possible at the mo'.

The upshot being both players get to be 'the main men' in a team/environment they enjoy for another year. Both get another 2 years security on an improved, decent wage. With both having the prospect of a substantial cash windfall in a years time via this agreement and obviously a bigger contract at their new clubs.
So they both stay for a year where the better they play means the more money the players and the club get back at in a years time. Win win for all parties concerned.

I know there is the possibility of injuries and certainly that is a slight gamble on the players part but has the potential of a high financial reward.
The club could perhaps offset this 'risk' by taking out particularly high insurance on the players over the next 12 months. While giving the players a similar percentage pay out from the insurance if something bad were to happen.

Does anyone have any other possible ideas on a bit of financial jiggery-pokery that could keep them here another year?

Thoughts?

hibbyfraelibby
27-04-2018, 10:50 AM
I tink we need to secure a UEFA place first before we push the boat out. The revenue/appearance money from that alone, even if only one round, could cover say a one year extention to SJM and a pay rise for Dylan.

We are a club that lives within its means now but as our means are now increasing we can speculate a bit to accumulate more.

sadtom
27-04-2018, 11:04 AM
I tink we need to secure a UEFA place first before we push the boat out. The revenue/appearance money from that alone, even if only one round, could cover say a one year extention to SJM and a pay rise for Dylan.

We are a club that lives within its means now but as our means are now increasing we can speculate a bit to accumulate more.

Totally appreciate that. But the way i'm suggesting it removes much of the risk and keep it all within our wage cap. The only possible extra outlay comes from a future windfall.

GibbytheHibby2
27-04-2018, 11:10 AM
Totally appreciate that. But the way i'm suggesting it removes much of the risk and keep it all within our wage cap. The only possible extra outlay comes from a future windfall.

Except of course the risk that either or both suffer long-term injuries or a dip in form that reduces any sell-on value.

I don't disagree with your overall proposal, but it isn't without risk and the risk/reward balance is never easy to get exactly right (just as any replacement signing may or may not work out).

And the players involved may just not want to stay for whatever reason.

I do trust our guardians to get it right whichever way it goes.

KWJ
27-04-2018, 11:15 AM
I suppose it depends on exactly how the wage cap is deployed.

In my head it was just a maximum salary per week but it doesn't take too much with bonuses, signing on fees, percentage of sales etc to get creative beyond a cap.

For instance - qualify for Europa League Group Stage and Dylan gets £100k.

That's the way I do it in FM anyway :D

MagicSwirlingShip
27-04-2018, 11:22 AM
Totally appreciate that. But the way i'm suggesting it removes much of the risk and keep it all within our wage cap. The only possible extra outlay comes from a future windfall.

I wasn't aware we had one.

NAE NOOKIE
27-04-2018, 11:25 AM
No matter what we do we cant compete with what SJM or Dylan could earn in the EFL, probably around 10K a week. Even with an offer like the one in the OP a lot rests on the goodwill of the players and for different reasons they are both at the stage where a lucrative move is on their mind, SJM for a new challenge and Dylan because he cant know for sure that his injury woes wont return and he has to think of his financial future.

What may be a factor is that this is a team who deserve one final shot at winning a trophy .... in a one off game we need fear nobody in Scotland, including Celtic. If they can stay together for one more season there is a decent chance of winning either the league cup or Scottish cup, which would cement their status even further ..... perhaps even a shot at making the Europa league group stages, do that and they would be even more ingrained in Hibs legend if that were possible.

Hibs never budget for making cup finals, so why not offer the whole team our share of the gate money from any final we reach as a bonus .... unless we are playing Ross County or Livingston that's a guaranteed share of around £500,000 ( double that if we made both finals :greengrin ) chuck in a promise that they can also share the gate money from our first home game in the Europa league group stages, if by some miracle they were to make it and that's one hell of an incentive.

The other undeniable fact is that unless they join one of the arse cheeks or Aberdeen this could be the last shot at European football they ever get ... from a playing point of view that's as good a reason to stick around as any.

If we were to kick off next season with McGinn, McGeouch, Allan, Barker and Ambrose still in the team I would suggest winning something is well within our capabilities.

Mikey09
27-04-2018, 11:59 AM
Andy Halliday and Ryan Jack are probably earning 3 or 4 times what McGeouch is on. Let that sink in. Dylan must look at that and think WTF!!

WhileTheChief..
27-04-2018, 12:09 PM
We’ve got a wage cap? When did we introduce that?

ancient hibee
27-04-2018, 03:38 PM
Don’t think any agent will allow a player to agree to a cut of some mythical future transfer fee instead of an upfront signing on fee.Apart from anything else a bad injury and there might be no transfer.

Keith_M
27-04-2018, 03:50 PM
Sadly I think the most likely scenario is for both to leave. We'll get nothing for Dylan and have to pay St Mirren a percentage of SJMs fee, so we wont hav a massive amount for their replacements.

We'll need to trust our scoutng team to identify one or more replacements.

Tug Wilson
27-04-2018, 04:51 PM
I think that Dylan has to look to get a lucrative contract whilst consistently injury free. Hence I believe that he will go down South to a Championship side. Can't really blame him.

McGinn on the other hand is breaking into the national team and any move may set that back a bit. Therefore he might see the benefits in staying at Hibs for a season or two. Cement his place in the Scotland midfield and aim for a Premiership club.

Only time will tell.

Forza Fred
27-04-2018, 06:16 PM
Stating the obvious but we can only spend what we get in in revenue.

Players have a short career, and if they can get 3 or 4 times the money they are on at HIbs in the lower reaches of the English Championship, its unlikey they will not move, if an offer comes in.

We ae already playing to record crowds, and we get our share of tv revenue.

Short of being taken over by a foreign millionaire with money to throw away, I don't see things changing much.

We will still rely on identifying up and coming talent and bringing youngsters through.

If it wasn't so, teams like Hamilton, Dunfermline or Dundee would also be up challenging Celtic.

CropleyWasGod
27-04-2018, 06:38 PM
I wasn't aware we had one.We have a playing staff budget. We have to get x players in, within that budget.

So there is an overall cap..but not an individual one.

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horseflesh
27-04-2018, 08:56 PM
McGinn deliberately let his contract run down at St Mirren to maximise his next wage and was willing to go to the states to avoid a team having to pay compensation.
I’d bet he will run his contract down again and be in line for a mega wage by doing so