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View Full Version : The FA to sell Wembley?



Monts
26-04-2018, 02:16 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/43906272

£800 million

1van Sprou7e
26-04-2018, 02:22 PM
Fulham playing in a 90,000 seater stadium...

Steven79
26-04-2018, 02:51 PM
In England everything is for sale.....

Oscar T Grouch
26-04-2018, 02:54 PM
In England everything is for sale.....

Tae be fair I believe our national stadium is up for sale too 😉

Steven79
26-04-2018, 02:55 PM
Tae be fair I believe our national stadium is up for sale too ��

I wouldn't give you much for it! Needs knocked down.... :wink:

Oscar T Grouch
26-04-2018, 02:56 PM
I would give you much for it! Needs knocked down.... :wink:

:agree:

Just Jimmy
26-04-2018, 03:13 PM
It's about the NFL.

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Famous Fiver
26-04-2018, 03:42 PM
That must make the wee piece of turf from 1976 in my back garden worth a few bob!!

Keith_M
26-04-2018, 03:54 PM
Will the FA be giving the taxpayer back their share of the money used to build it?

Colr
26-04-2018, 06:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/43906272

£800 million

I hope he brings in an American standard of fast food. Last time I went I paid £7 for a burger made out of shoe leather and garnished with kitten sick!

Sylar
26-04-2018, 08:38 PM
Can't see him moving Fulham from Craven Cottage - this is so the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars has a permanent home in the UK, so they can become the UK NFL Franchise.

Jones28
26-04-2018, 08:50 PM
Absolute madness. English football is ****ed

Just Jimmy
26-04-2018, 09:11 PM
Can't see him moving Fulham from Craven Cottage - this is so the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars has a permanent home in the UK, so they can become the UK NFL Franchise.As I said, its about the NFL.

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Pretty Boy
26-04-2018, 09:34 PM
I think any plans to move the Jags are longer term. Khan and the city of Jacksonville have spent well over $150M on inprovements to Everbank Field in the last 5 years.

A London franchise may well happen but I don't think it's imminent.

Sylar
26-04-2018, 09:42 PM
I think any plans to move the Jags are longer term. Khan and the city of Jacksonville have spent well over $150M on inprovements to Everbank Field in the last 5 years.

A London franchise may well happen but I don't think it's imminent.

I feel a little drunk having this conversation with you on a thread that's not our normal home :greengrin

What they've spent is a drop in the ocean really (when you look at the massive infrastructure investment other franchises have been making recently, in Minnesota, Atlanta, Vegas, LA etc). Even during their excellent season last year, Jacksonville struggled to fill half of their stadium. Florida NFL teams just seem to attract apathy these days.

Given all of the moves that have taken place in recent years with franchises moving, combined with the popularity of the sport here and the increasing sell-out speed year on year, I think Khan has pulled a trigger in making this offer. If it's accepted, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see something go before the NFL AGM at the end of this season proposing that Jacksonville move - that move timeframe might not be immediate (e.g., the following season), but I really do believe he's trying to force the NFL's hand, and if he's successful with this move, I reckon we could see an NFL UK team by the time the 2021 season gets underway.

pacorosssco
26-04-2018, 10:13 PM
Will the FA be giving the taxpayer back their share of the money used to build it?

nope I doubt even grass roots or academy it's meant to be sold to fund will see much of it. will go on jets lunches and new blazers

Haymaker
26-04-2018, 10:20 PM
Even during their excellent season last year, Jacksonville struggled to fill half of their stadium. Florida NFL teams just seem to attract apathy these days.



That's because Florida is full of people escaping from New Jersey in the fall/winter time :greengrin

Ozyhibby
27-04-2018, 07:24 AM
Sensible decision by the English FA. Just as the SFA are about to make the same mistake as well.


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Cardinal Hibernian
27-04-2018, 07:55 AM
It is an interesting one. I agree fully it is all about the NFL.

Jacksonville started to struggled to sell tickets about 14 years ago when they went into salary cap hell. They fired off their head coach - Tom Coughlin - who then went on to lead the New York (Football) Giants to two Superbowl wins over New England. They "sold" about 20 000 of their 80 000 seats to 'advertisers' and advertising tarpaulins have covered most of their top tier. These only came off this January when they hosted a home play off game for the first time in donkeys years - I don't think the advertisers were too happy. At the start of last season Khan brought Coughlin back in a General Manager type role and they ended up one game short of getting to the Superbowl. If they can upgrade their quarter back they have a chance of staying relevant and selling tickets in Jacksonville for the next few years.

Khan has been committed to Jacksonville playing one game at Wembley as soon as he bought the franchise - I think the deal goes through to 2020. If he does buy Wembley and start to do 'upgrades' on it, i.e. upgrade the suites, corporate hospitality etc etc - the stadium is 11 years old afterall - then that will be a huge signal.

This would leave a few questions: billionaire NFL owners tend to get others to pay part of stadium build costs and refurbishments (hence why they are billioniares!). So will Khan adopt our pink chums' model to get other people to pay for it? Will he tear down the arch and replace it with a glass one? Will he bother with a safety certificate? Will he sell chips? Will he need to put in extra vomitories? Will he change the corporate hospitality suites so they do NOT overlook the pitch? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

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Fisherrow Harp
27-04-2018, 10:03 AM
I have often wondered how uk NFL fans would take to an NFL franchise in London/UK. For me its not going to make me jump ship from The Packers, that's pretty entrenched for me!

Colr
27-04-2018, 10:34 AM
I have often wondered how uk NFL fans would take to an NFL franchise in London/UK. For me its not going to make me jump ship from The Packers, that's pretty entrenched for me!

I think Tottenham will be watching this seeing as they have spent quite a lot to ensure that the NFL can play at the new White Hart Lane.

SirDavidsNapper
27-04-2018, 11:05 AM
I just despair whenever i see anything to do with the silly money floating about English football. It's madness and i just can't relate to it at all. Like a previous poster said English football is f***ed.

NAE NOOKIE
27-04-2018, 11:37 AM
Will the FA be giving the taxpayer back their share of the money used to build it?

According to the BBC £230,000,000 of public money was used in rebuilding Wembley, from the national lottery, a London public fund and money from central government. If the FA sell Wembley they should be forced to pay that money back .... it cant be ethical to suck up that amount of public money and then profit off the back of it by selling the very asset you used it on and sticking it in your back pocket.

Its infuriating that huge amounts of public money have been given to the London stadium and Wembley and yet Hampden remains a crumbling dump ... its even more infuriating to see the English FA taking the piss.

Beefster
27-04-2018, 11:38 AM
Will the FA be giving the taxpayer back their share of the money used to build it?

You could ask the same question of Queens Park, given about two-thirds of Hampden was paid by public money.

NAE NOOKIE
27-04-2018, 11:40 AM
You could ask the same question of Queens Park, given about two-thirds of Hampden was paid by public money.

Peanuts compared to Wembley and the London stadium, not to mention the Millennium stadium.

Ozyhibby
27-04-2018, 11:43 AM
You could ask the same question of Queens Park, given about two-thirds of Hampden was paid by public money.

It’s a problem in both sales. The money has to be paid back in both cases which is why the Hampden deal may not happen.



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.Sean.
27-04-2018, 11:47 AM
I can’t get my head around American football. See when a team moves county and changes their name what happens to all their supporters who’ve supported them for years? And do they just pick up tens of thousands of new fans where they’re now playing? What an load of garbage

Beefster
27-04-2018, 11:48 AM
Peanuts compared to Wembley and the London stadium, not to mention the Millennium stadium.

I don’t think the Millenium Stadium was much more than Hampden.

Either way, it depends on how you look at it. About a fifth of Wembley from public funds and they might be about to sell it for more than it cost to redevelop. Two thirds of Hampden from public funds and they might be about to sell it for around 3% of its redevelopment cost.

J-C
27-04-2018, 12:31 PM
You'll see England travelling around playing their game, always a moan by many fans having to travel to London for internationals, there are any top stadiums all with large capacities.

J-C
27-04-2018, 12:34 PM
I can’t get my head around American football. See when a team moves county and changes their name what happens to all their supporters who’ve supported them for years? And do they just pick up tens of thousands of new fans where they’re now playing? What an load of garbage


They generally move because there is a demand for a pro team, American football isn't like our football re it's fans, college football is more like the equivalent to our football, localised teams and many college games are supported by thousands of fans, Pro football is all about the franchise and tv money etc.

lord bunberry
27-04-2018, 12:42 PM
I can’t get my head around American football. See when a team moves county and changes their name what happens to all their supporters who’ve supported them for years? And do they just pick up tens of thousands of new fans where they’re now playing? What an load of garbage
I’ve often thought about this. Loads of American football and baseball teams have moved from one place to another. What do the fans that supported the old team do? I think as far as new fans are concerned it’s not much of an issue as there will be fans in the new area that have been hoping to get a major team in their area, but I wonder who they supported before that. It’s all very strange to me.
I remember watching a programme about the New York Giants baseball team. They won the World Series and then moved to San Francisco, some of the old guys in the programme were really upset about it.

Fisherrow Harp
27-04-2018, 01:05 PM
I can’t get my head around American football. See when a team moves county and changes their name what happens to all their supporters who’ve supported them for years? And do they just pick up tens of thousands of new fans where they’re now playing? What an load of garbage
Part of the reason I love the Packers, only fan owned club in the NFL. Will never be Boston, St Louis or L.A Packers, only Greenbay! Which actually has about 60,00 less population than Aberdeen, last of the small town teams. I agree to some messure, what happened to the Browns becoming The Ravens then a new Browns in Cleveland was nonsense.

Ozyhibby
27-04-2018, 01:50 PM
They generally move because there is a demand for a pro team, American football isn't like our football re it's fans, college football is more like the equivalent to our football, localised teams and many college games are supported by thousands of fans, Pro football is all about the franchise and tv money etc.

I think the Michigan wolverines have an average attendance of over 100,000 every game and they only play in the college league.


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Sylar
27-04-2018, 02:01 PM
I’ve often thought about this. Loads of American football and baseball teams have moved from one place to another. What do the fans that supported the old team do? I think as far as new fans are concerned it’s not much of an issue as there will be fans in the new area that have been hoping to get a major team in their area, but I wonder who they supported before that. It’s all very strange to me.
I remember watching a programme about the New York Giants baseball team. They won the World Series and then moved to San Francisco, some of the old guys in the programme were really upset about it.

We need only look at our own football league to see what happens - where did all of the Meadowbank fans go when they moved out to Livingston? Some followed, some didn't and made it their life mission to detest everything that Livingston became.

The history of the Giants and baseball in the US is a slightly different issue to the modern NFL idea of relocating for financial benefits. The historical baseball teams were all geographically confined due to no easy way to get from East to West coast. When MLB made the decision to expand west in the advent of air travel, they knew they needed successful, well known teams to capture the imagination of the new fans on the West Coast, and New York did have 6 teams at that point. The recently crowned World Champions just made sense.

I dislike the franchise model a little in US Sports, but at the end of the day, professional sport IS a business. If relocating can save your franchise and bring sport to a new geography, it's a sensible approach. It does suck for the people left behind though, no doubt. Even small shifts in geography can really hurt a fanbase - just look at the San Francisco 49ers - they relocated to Santa Barbara - it's about 90 minutes south east of San Francisco, and for many, not accessible anymore.

It's going to be interesting when a UK franchise is brought into the fold of the NFL. I do wonder if we'll see other teams being pulled into an 'international' conference at the same time, as the NFL are making a big push into Mexico just now too.

Sylar
27-04-2018, 02:02 PM
I think the Michigan wolverines have an average attendance of over 100,000 every game and they only play in the college league.


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We do indeed, and that's despite having been utterly garbage for years now!

Go Blue! :greengrin

lord bunberry
27-04-2018, 02:28 PM
We need only look at our own football league to see what happens - where did all of the Meadowbank fans go when they moved out to Livingston? Some followed, some didn't and made it their life mission to detest everything that Livingston became.

The history of the Giants and baseball in the US is a slightly different issue to the modern NFL idea of relocating for financial benefits. The historical baseball teams were all geographically confined due to no easy way to get from East to West coast. When MLB made the decision to expand west in the advent of air travel, they knew they needed successful, well known teams to capture the imagination of the new fans on the West Coast, and New York did have 6 teams at that point. The recently crowned World Champions just made sense.

I dislike the franchise model a little in US Sports, but at the end of the day, professional sport IS a business. If relocating can save your franchise and bring sport to a new geography, it's a sensible approach. It does suck for the people left behind though, no doubt. Even small shifts in geography can really hurt a fanbase - just look at the San Francisco 49ers - they relocated to Santa Barbara - it's about 90 minutes south east of San Francisco, and for many, not accessible anymore.

It's going to be interesting when a UK franchise is brought into the fold of the NFL. I do wonder if we'll see other teams being pulled into an 'international' conference at the same time, as the NFL are making a big push into Mexico just now too.
The meadowbank thing wouldn’t have had as much effect on the meadowbank fans as some of the moves in America. Livingston is still close by and there wasn’t many of them to begin with. I think the Wimbledon move to MK Dons was more relevant. The Wimbledon fans started their own team and have the chance to work their way back to the top. I doubt that would be possible with the franchise system. I suppose it’s just a different system over their, and they’ll all be familiar with it. They probably look at our system with as much confusion.

Haymaker
27-04-2018, 02:31 PM
They probably look at our system with as much confusion.

They do. Most can't understand having relegation or how many teams from can be from one city.

NAE NOOKIE
27-04-2018, 03:14 PM
They do. Most can't understand having relegation or how many teams from can be from one city.

Something I think devalues American sport to an extent .... there are huge rivalries but between teams hundreds of miles apart, but you cant beat being in direct opposition to a team from the same city as you. Even where that is possible in the US they seem to stick the clubs in different divisions / conferences .... EG the Jets and the Giants, between whom meetings are as rare as hens teeth.

MLS seems to be going the same way where even big towns like Chicago, Dallas and Kansas city only have one team. New York Red Bulls and NY City seem to be developing a healthy hatred and I dare say LA Galaxy and Los Angeles FC will go the same way .... but by and large their rivalries are at as healthy a distance as Baseball and American Football ... EG Portland Timbers and Seattle Sounders, who dislike each other intensely but are hundreds of miles apart.

ancient hibee
27-04-2018, 03:18 PM
We do indeed, and that's despite having been utterly garbage for years now!

Go Blue! :greengrin
I was in Knoxville when the University of Tennessee had a game.Attendance 50,000 from all over the state,nearly all season tickets and match played at one of the Uni’s three stadia.Even allowing for the size of the populations it’s definitely a different world.

Ozyhibby
27-04-2018, 03:54 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180427/34adbe4cb90e831d9960f1db581c46d8.jpg

Pretty big crowds for college football.


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Sylar
27-04-2018, 04:04 PM
I was in Knoxville when the University of Tennessee had a game.Attendance 50,000 from all over the state,nearly all season tickets and match played at one of the Uni’s three stadia.Even allowing for the size of the populations it’s definitely a different world.

It varies from university to university, but College Football is bigger in most cases than the NFL (in terms of average attendances anyway).

The college pride thing is a big factor - either locality or being an alma mater - can draw in massive crowds in some colleges.

I currently work for Stanford, and we typically get 45-50k every home game. Which really isn't bad for a private university that's typically much smaller than a lot of the state schools.

.Sean.
27-04-2018, 04:57 PM
How does college football work and differ from the nfl?

lord bunberry
27-04-2018, 05:41 PM
How does college football work and differ from the nfl?
I’m pretty sure college football is where players are drafted to the nfl from. It’s pretty difficult to make it as a nfl player unless you go to university. Other than that I would imagine it’s college teams playing against each other.

Glory Lurker
27-04-2018, 08:55 PM
Daft sport.

Haymaker
27-04-2018, 09:07 PM
How does college football work and differ from the nfl?

Colleges play in leagues against each other and if you're good enough you can go pro from college as you need to be out of High School for 2 years before you can play in the nfl.

There's slightly different rules too.

jgl07
28-04-2018, 01:17 AM
According to the BBC £230,000,000 of public money was used in rebuilding Wembley, from the national lottery, a London public fund and money from central government. If the FA sell Wembley they should be forced to pay that money back .... it cant be ethical to suck up that amount of public money and then profit off the back of it by selling the very asset you used it on and sticking it in your back pocket.

Its infuriating that huge amounts of public money have been given to the London stadium and Wembley and yet Hampden remains a crumbling dump ... its even more infuriating to see the English FA taking the piss.
That is a very interesting question.

When the City of Manchester Stadium was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games, there was a substantial contribution from the English Sports Council. It was always beuilt with the objective of turning it into a football stadium. Otherwise it would not have been built.

It was converted into a football stadium for Manchester City with the removal of the running track an lowering the pitch to create an extra tier of seats below the original playing area. After Manchester City were taken over by ADUG, interest was expressed in City purchasing the Stadium where they had a 150 year lease. This was rejected by the City Council on the grounds that they would have to pay back the contribution to the Sports Council. If the leasehold deal remained the Council could keep all the rental income.

So will the FA have o repay all the governmental contributions to the purchase and construction of the new Wembley Stadium? Maybe the deal will be lucrative enough for this to happen. We do need to know!

I wish that the Yanks would make an offer to buy Hampden Park!

Keith_M
28-04-2018, 07:08 AM
You could ask the same question of Queens Park, given about two-thirds of Hampden was paid by public money.


Sounds fair enough, they should give 2/3 (or whatever percentage it actually was) of any money received back to the Government.

Then the FA can do something similar in percentage terms with the money they were given.


If the SFA had been given over 200M of public money toward rebuilding Hampden, we'd have an amazing National Stadium now. In reality, though, how much do you think they actually received?

If it's any help in your calculations, the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff, capacity 74,000 and with sliding roof, only cost 120 million to build

jgl07
28-04-2018, 11:23 PM
We need only look at our own football league to see what happens - where did all of the Meadowbank fans go when they moved out to Livingston? Some followed, some didn't and made it their life mission to detest everything that Livingston became.

What Meadowbank fans?

A typical crowd at the fag end of the Meadowbank era would be 250. One third of those would be visiting fans, another third would be on complementary tickets, and the remainder would be shouting 'Blobby Out'. That was a reference to Meadowbank Chairman Bill 'Mr Blobby' Hunter who took the decision to move to Livingston.

I suspect that very few followed the team to Livingston while many drifted away and the biggest number probably shifted loyalties to Edinburgh City