Jose on the water Twitter video NHC

[percy veer]

Anyone seen the video utter scandalous would be terrible if this fell into the papers hands, I can't figure out how to post it

[660]

https://twitter.com/russabercrombie/status/984742115149340672

[Sauzee16]

Boys laughing at it.

[The Spaceman]

Hearts class.

[SaulGoodman]

Boys laughing at it.

Doesn't really make it okay though, does it?

[Leith Green]

Thats mental , i know a lot has changed since then but even back then that wouldnt have been deemed acceptable..

[Billy Whizz]

Thats mental , i know a lot has changed since then but even back then that wouldnt have been deemed acceptable..

When is this from, and why has it appeared tonight?

Recognise a few faces and voices

[Scouse Hibee]

They all seemed happy enough with it.

[bingo70]

Boys laughing at it.

How many black players might have played for hearts around that time that maybe wouldn’t laugh at that?

In fact, scrap that, what about the decent people of any colour that would have felt uncomfortable with that.

I’d have thought Robertson and Locke would have been influential figures in that changing room, it would have needed to be a strong person to challenge them on something like that.

Shocker of a video and Lockes position at Hearts has to be under pressure now.

[Pretty Boy]

Boys laughing at it.

Make you think how many guys who were 'different' didn't/don't find that kind of brutal banter funny and dropped out the game though.

Not just pros but through the levels. The 'my black mate finds it funny' or 'my cousins gay so...' lines don't really cut it. This can't have been long after the MacKay/Harper incident either, a couple of years maybe?

[Thecat23]

Boys laughing at it.

That makes it alright then 👍🏼

[kaimendhibs]

Boys laughing at it.Ahhh, that's ok then🤢

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[bingo70]

When is this from, and why has it appeared tonight?

Recognise a few faces and voices

Must be around 1998ish?

[Billy Whizz]

Must be around 1998ish?

But why tonight has this been dragged up

[Thecat23]

But why tonight has this been dragged up

Maybe someone’s just noticed it Bill. Either way it’s a shocker and shows that bunch for what they are.

[hibbydog]

Despicable

[Billy Whizz]

Maybe someone’s just noticed it Bill. Either way it’s a shocker and shows that bunch for what they are.

It is a shocker, and shows you how far we’ve moved on as a society in 20 years

[Tobias Funke]

Boys laughing at it.

832 posts in the space of two months, good going Rubyhibee/Ivan Drago/SJM/Firestarter. Good to see you continue to talk utter dross in your current guise. :rolleyes:

[Billy Whizz]

The sad thing is, this sort of thing is still going on at Tynie, recent black players have complained of being racially abused

[kaimendhibs]

But why tonight has this been dragged upMibbe someone has been sitting on it and decided enough of the media love in for this manky mob is enough. Makes no difference, it's wrong on every level. Anyone who believes Jose is enjoying it is deluded. Playing along with the bullies is how I see it

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[bingo70]

Mibbe someone has been sitting on it and decided enough of the media love in for this manky mob is enough. Makes no difference, it's wrong on every level. Anyone who believes Jose is enjoying it is deluded. Playing along with the bullies is how I see it

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Camera phones obviously weren’t a thing then so for that to be in the team bus I’d guess it must have been an official video and they’ve swept it under the carpet. Guessing someone at the club doesn’t think much of Locke though.

FWIW I don’t think it’s impossible Jose was able to laugh it off and wasn’t bothered by it, that doesn’t make it anywhere near acceptable though and as I said earlier there’s as much chance of a white guy being offended by it as a black guy being.

[Thecat23]

It is a shocker, and shows you how far we’ve moved on as a society in 20 years

Sadly it seems they haven’t going by recent songs and abuse of their black players have been getting lately.

[kaimendhibs]

Camera phones obviously weren’t a thing then so for that to be in the team bus I’d guess it must have been an official video and they’ve swept it under the carpet. Guessing someone at the club doesn’t think much of Locke though.

FWIW I don’t think it’s impossible Jose was able to laugh it off and wasn’t bothered by it, that doesn’t make it anywhere near acceptable though and as I said earlier there’s as much chance of a white guy being offended by it as a black guy being.[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

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[Sylar]

It is a shocker, and shows you how far we’ve moved on as a society in 20 years

Society as a whole has moved on slightly I would say. There's undoubtedly still pockets of racism everywhere, but I don't believe something like this would happen in a modern football clubhouse. The stands on the other hand are a different matter entirely, where racist, homophobic (et al) chants are par for the course.

Such a professional bunch too - athletes at one of Scotland's top clubs all tossing back tinnies on a team bus...

[Libby Hibby]

This sort of rascist culture is still rife and deemed acceptable by some within Tynecastle, if Goncalves is to be believed.

[Eaststandee]

Has this done the round before? Or is this recently seen?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Sadly it seems they haven’t going by recent songs and abuse of their black players have been getting lately.

And one of their players 'blacking up' for their Christmas night out.

[Captain Trips]

The song is being sung to Jose it IMO is up to him to be bothered if he isn't nor am I.

[Captain Trips]

Must be around 1998ish?

Perhaps it was aboard the Lego Bus.

[matty_f]

The song is being sung to Jose it IMO is up to him to be bothered if he isn't nor am I.

Why is he the only person who is able to find it offensive?

The song's a disgrace.

[Captain Trips]

Why is he the only person who is able to find it offensive?

The song's a disgrace.

I didn't say he was the only did I? I said if he isn't I am not. You are entitled to be offended as is anyone else. I'm not.

[MWHIBBIES]

Medals racially abused Kevin Harper, shouldn't come as a surprise that his mates are knuckle dragging bigots as well.

[Eaststandee]

The song is being sung to Jose it IMO is up to him to be bothered if he isn't nor am I.

Behave, what's he gonna do? Start going mental at people further up the hierarchy on a team bus returning from a cup final?

This behaviour is disgusting, and these people still have a connection with Hearts, I'd be utterly ashamed if that was Hibs staff.

[hibsboy69]

Racist AND homophobic :rolleyes:

Poor show !

[Thecat23]

I didn't say he was the only did I? I said if he isn't I am not. You are entitled to be offended as is anyone else. I'm not.

So if you seen folk singing this type of song in public and the black guy didn’t bother you wouldn’t bother either? Sorry if someone was belting this out I’d find it very uncomfortable and I’d say something. Ignoring it is part of the problem.

[Captain Trips]

So if you seen folk singing this type of song in public and the black guy didn’t bother you wouldn’t bother either? Sorry if someone was belting this out I’d find it very uncomfortable and I’d say something. Ignoring it is part of the problem.

I do not need to justify my reactions to any events to anyone and I won't be and I care not a jot what anyone thinks about that. I expressed my opinion on the post and I am comfortable with that.

[007]

I thought he looked uncomfortable and was laughing nervously which are understandable reactions. How else could he react? If he'd objected he'd most likely have been subjected to more but by laughing and appearing to go along with it then he'd maybe have a better chance of it stopping sooner.

I wonder how Justin Fashanu was treated whilst he was there.

[Thecat23]

I do not need to justify my reactions to any events to anyone and I won't be and I care not a jot what anyone thinks about that. I expressed my opinion on the post and I am comfortable with that.

Can I ask why?

[hibsboy69]

Just have a wee think about this folks..............Gary Locke is currently working for Hearts as AMBASSADOR for the club ! :rolleyes:

Wow !

Think the press will have a field day with this !

[Captain Trips]

Can I ask why?

Indeed you can.

[Thecat23]

I do not need to justify my reactions to any events to anyone and I won't be and I care not a jot what anyone thinks about that. I expressed my opinion on the post and I am comfortable with that.

It’s fine you’ve said enough for me anyway, don’t need to add anymore!

[Clerie Green]

This is pish.
I’ve sung , done , thought and still wish them every evil under Gods Good Green earth .

:flag::agree: :flag:

[Captain Trips]

It’s fine you’ve said enough for me anyway, don’t need to add anymore!

Good there is nothing to add whatsoever.

[DarrenSQH]

Shocker of a video. Didn’t realise things were that bad as late as 1998.


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[lapsedhibee]

I wonder how Justin Fashanu was treated whilst he was there.

Remember Robbo making a fairly mild nudge-nudge joke on camera about where he was standing in relation to Fashanu during an interview with the two of them. Was uncomfortable but not outrageous for the time. If I remember rightly Fashanu just kind of went along with it - faint smile, something like that. Things have changed aplenty in the last 20 years and I'm sure Robbo wouldn't be making the same quip now. Me, I don't hate Robbo for it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Just have a wee think about this folks..............Gary Locke is currently working for Hearts as AMBASSADOR for the club ! :rolleyes:

Wow !

Think the press will have a field day with this !

And his brother’s married to a man...

[Smartie]

I thought he looked uncomfortable and was laughing nervously which are understandable reactions. How else could he react? If he'd objected he'd most likely have been subjected to more but by laughing and appearing to go along with it then he'd maybe have a better chance of it stopping sooner.

I wonder how Justin Fashanu was treated whilst he was there.

Before we all get too hand-wringy on here, it would be fair to say that Justin Fashanu was treated atrociously by fans of our club when he played against us (pretty sure it was in a derby at Tynecastle).

I was only a kid but remember thinking that it was too much. I've always hated racism, just hearing it has always made me feel like total 5hit - and I am white / Caucasian - but there was a lot of it casually thrown around back then. An Edinburgh Derby was never going to be a happy place for a black, English homosexual football player.


The battle is far from won, but looking at that clip I feel strangely proud looking back down the mountain at how far we've come as a society in 20 years, as that just wouldn't happen now.

[Dinkydoo]

This forced outrage because it's Hearts is a bit much, isn't it.

Taken at face value, this is shocking behaviour and in a normal context, you wouldn't accept your pal talking like that in casual discourse.

In reality, however, this is a bus of team mates after a game, being a bunch of dicks to each other and singing about some token member of the group for a laugh.

Who here that is "disgusted" has never said something in a group of mates for shock value? If you have, it wasn't vindictive, was it? They're smiling, nobody is kicking off. Imagine someone films that, yep, out of context you're ****ed.

Disclaimer: **** the Hearts

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[trev the hat]

A reflection on society & in every way wrong. But no point scoring here cause it’s them imo

[madabouthibs]

Typical from the KKK OO Jambos though.
To be fair, that LEGO bus looks much better from the inside. :rolleyes:

[neil7908]

Jesus Christ that's terrible.

[CraigHibee]

Hearts class

[Wembley67]

So many whiter than white folk here. Wrong yes but not exactly the end of the world.

[HibeeHibernian4]

So many whiter than white folk here. Wrong yes but not exactly the end of the world.

Well as long as we're whiter than white then we won't be getting any grief from Locke and co.

[Mantis Toboggan]

If we pick out all past potentially racist incidents in Scottish football we are going to be here a while. Not defending the behaviour but what is the point of raising this now?

[The Harp Awakes]

Not comfortable watching but sadly quite commonplace at that time. Certainly not just a Hearts problem.

Maybe in 20 years time religious bigotry in Scotland will be seen as equally intolerable.

[Austinho]

Watched that at first and wondered what all the faux outrage was.

Thought they were singing ‘Jose’s on the water. A wee wan too’ and thought, surely everyone isn’t getting up in arms about them peer pressuring him into drinking 20 years ago.

Then I thought they were singing ‘Jose’s on the water. The wee black dude’ and thought, ok, well that’s not so cool, but still the reactions are well over the top.

Then I eventually realised it was ‘The wee black p**f’. Oh dear! Maybe I’ve been in Australia too long.

[Barney McGrew]

It’s apparently from a video filmed for the 1998 cup final, when they gave a video camera to Neil Pointon to get a candid ‘players view’ of the day.

Predictably, it’s being passed off with equal share of “it was in a different time” and whataboutery on Kickback.

[Captain Trips]

While I absolutely don't agree with the guys stance to the issue I think its highly unfair to throw that word around based on what he's said.

It's a disgrace to be saying that. In the context of that situation the person it is getting said to appears to be having a laugh at it as well. If they were saying that to a total stranger whom they did not know and did not appear to think it was OK that for me is different.

I have never once stated it was OK to say it or I agree with it. On this scenario I cannot get more angry than the person it is getting said to.

I am not a racist what I said dosent make me one I am taking the song in the same manner as the person it is said to, a joke in very bad taste. Does it make Jose a racist then who is laughing at it?

I'm not happy at all at that remark at all it is totally not acceptable.

Are 1000s of our support homophobic? Shouting at Paul Hartley? Is that OK as he didn't actually find that funny.

[Captain Trips]

Deleting the message is not acceptable conclusion PB. That was put out there and I expect an apology and retraction for suggesting that. Its not on.

[marinello59]

Deleting the message is not acceptable conclusion PB. That was put out there and I expect an apology and retraction for suggesting that. Its not on.

PB has dealt with this in entirely the correct manner. I really can’t see what else he could have done.

[Pretty Boy]

Deleting the message is not acceptable conclusion PB. That was put out there and I expect an apology and retraction for suggesting that. Its not on.

I can't force anyone to apologise and I'm not sure anything is gained by me apologising on someone elses behalf, I'm unwilling to do that anyway.

I deleted the post you took exception to and any subsequent posts that quoted it. I'm not sure what more can be done beyond that.

[Captain Trips]

I can't force anyone to apologise and I'm not sure anything is gained by me apologising on someone elses behalf, I'm unwilling to do that anyway.

I deleted the post you took exception to and any subsequent posts that quoted it. I'm not sure what more can be done beyond that.

You do not have to apologise but it now seems that remark is now secondary to my reaction to it which is mot right.

I do not expect you to apologise Only the person. I do not want anyone banned or put off the site but saying that is not right and I just cannot say oh well it's deleted that's fine.

I just cannot take such a comment about me lightly.

[Borderhibbie76]

Before we all get too hand-wringy on here, it would be fair to say that Justin Fashanu was treated atrociously by fans of our club when he played against us (pretty sure it was in a derby at Tynecastle).

I was only a kid but remember thinking that it was too much. I've always hated racism, just hearing it has always made me feel like total 5hit - and I am white / Caucasian - but there was a lot of it casually thrown around back then. An Edinburgh Derby was never going to be a happy place for a black, English homosexual football player.


The battle is far from won, but looking at that clip I feel strangely proud looking back down the mountain at how far we've come as a society in 20 years, as that just wouldn't happen now.Agreed but sadly I still hear the odd homophobic remark from certain fans in our East Stand at almost every home game. Quite a few opposition players being called p###s and other choice words. It's still a problem in a section of our support too...no wonder professional footballers don't wanna come out

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[Pretty Boy]

You do not have to apologise but it now seems that remark is now secondary to my reaction to it which is mot right.

I do not expect you to apologise Only the person. I do not want anyone banned or put off the site but saying that is not right and I just cannot say oh well it's deleted that's fine.

I just cannot take such a comment about me lightly.

As far as I can see there were 5 replies to or related to the post in question. 4 from you and 1 supporting you so I'm not sure there has been any great reaction either to the post or your response to it. For comparison in the same timescale there were 14 replies to the thread unrelated to the accusation levelled at you.

If you wish to avoid drawing further attention to this maybe it would be best to contact the poster direct asking for an apology?

[Captain Trips]

As far as I can see there were 5 replies to or related to the post in question. 4 from you and 1 supporting you so I'm not sure there has been any great reaction either to the post or your response to it. For comparison in the same timescale there were 14 replies to the thread unrelated to the accusation levelled at you.

If you wish to avoid drawing further attention to this maybe it would be best to contact the poster direct asking for an apology?

People were likely avoiding getting involved PB as would I it was a very strong thing to get involved in. As I said it now appears I am wrong or causing trouble simply because I am not happy about being called a racist it has nothing to do with drawing attention to it. I will not be contacting the poster the onus is on them if they are not bothered then so be it.

Have you spoken to them about it? Can you call anyone anything and if it's deleted it's OK it's dealt with end of?

Sorry PB I am getting the impression you are finding me more at issue than the original persons post sorry if not the case but that is how it appears.

Only one person out of order here and well out of order at that. Not me, not you but that poster that is only issue here and nothing else. I am certainly allowed to ask how such things are dealt with.

[Pretty Boy]

People were likely avoiding getting involved PB as would I it was a very strong thing to get involved in. As I said it now appears I am wrong or causing trouble simply because I am not happy about being called a racist it has nothing to do with drawing attention to it. I will not be contacting the poster the onus is on them if they are not bothered then so be it.

Have you spoken to them about it? Can you call anyone anything and if it's deleted it's OK?

Sorry PB I am getting the impression you are finding me more at issue than the original persons post sorry if not the case but that is how it appears.

Only one person out of order here and well out of order at that. Not me, not you but that poster that is only issue here and nothing else. I am certainly allowed to ask how such things are dealt with.

I don't believe you are causing trouble, you have taken exception to a post you believe was out of order and I understand that. I tend to agree it was uncalled for.

I've not spoken with the poster, the post was made after I went to bed last night and I deleted it as soon as I saw it at about 6am this morning. No you can't just post anything and get away with it if it's deleted. Deleting the post is the 1st step and and then a decision has to be made if any further warnings, bans etc are required. That's dealt with privately.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm treating you as an 'issue'. I think I've been pretty fair and honest answering your queries and concerns and have dealt with the post in the short term by deleting it.

[Captain Trips]

I don't believe you are causing trouble, you have taken exception to a post you believe was out of order and I understand that. I tend to agree it was uncalled for.

I've not spoken with the poster, the post was made after I went to bed last night and I deleted it as soon as I saw it at about 6am this morning. No you can't just post anything and get away with it if it's deleted. Deleting the post is the 1st step and and then a decision has to be made if any further warnings, bans etc are required. That's dealt with privately.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm treating you as an 'issue'. I think I've been pretty fair and honest answering your queries and concerns and have dealt with the post in the short term by deleting it.

OK PB I will leave it at that but I do not want the person in any trouble over the matter.

[Beefster]

A thread on racism turns into a car crash. That’s a surprise.

For the posters saying ‘he’s laughing, what’s the harm?’. He’s surrounded by white guys who he has to work with singing a racist and homophobic song about him. Is it possible that he felt pressurised just to suck it up? Yeah, he could have had a tantrum but then destroys his relationships with his team-mates, likely leading to a big impact on his family seeing as he’d likely have to move clubs.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm the least likely person on here to take offence at things but that behaviour is a disgrace and totally inexcusable.

I wonder if Mr Ambassador has been asked for a response yet?

[Scouse Hibee]

A thread on racism turns into a car crash. That’s a surprise.

For the posters saying ‘he’s laughing, what’s the harm?’. He’s surrounded by white guys who he has to work with singing a racist and homophobic song about him. Is it possible that he felt pressurised just to suck it up? Yeah, he could have had a tantrum but then destroys his relationships with his team-mates, likely leading to a big impact on his family seeing as he’d likely have to move clubs.

Or just maybe he didn't have an issue with it at all and would be horrified to hear his team mates being labelled because of a song on a coach. I suppose the real point is unless he comes out and comments on it years later we will never know the true feelings around the situation. We can though all have differing opinions on it.

[Dalianwanda]

So many whiter than white folk here. Wrong yes but not exactly the end of the world.

Calling this sort of crap out is the only way attitudes and behaviours can be changed. Maybe those singing it would not longer see it as acceptable either :dunno:

[Beefster]

Or just maybe he didn't have an issue with it at all and would be horrified to hear his team mates being labelled because of a song on a coach. I suppose the real point is unless he comes out and comments on it years later we will never know the true feelings around the situation. We can though all have differing opinions on it.

Indeed. Still doesn’t make the song acceptable. All that’s in question is Quitongo’s feelings about it.

[Libby Hibby]

It’s racism, pure and simple, no matter the context or if the target is accepting of the behaviour.

[Captain Trips]

OK let me clarify slightly if I was on that bus I would not have joined in. I would have said to Jose are you OK with that I will say something if he said no I do not care I would have left it at that or he told me not to say anything as it didn't bother him.

If some on here would have said no it bothers me regardless of Jose and I am still saying something I understand that as well.

If you felt strongly enough to say sorry Jose it offends me and acted on that can I ask the stance taken on acting on Paul Hartley being abused in a homophobic manner? Is that not as serious in your opinion as it was a very easy thing to report and if you did say something and report it then fair play.

[Carheenlea]

A toe curling video. If you’re not tough enough to drink a warm can of piss-weak lager then you are a wee black poof - the drives to away games must have flown by with such sidespiltting bantz.

[Pretty Boy]

Calling this sort of crap out is the only way attitudes and behaviours can be changed. Maybe those singing it would not longer see it as acceptable either :dunno:

I think the latter point is one that should be considered.

You can't always judge someone on how they behaved 20 years ago. As poor as the behaviour is it's entirely possible Locke and Robertson are watched it back through their fingers and are embarrassed by their actions. People change and times change. I'm all for calling out this sort of thing but I'm not sure I agree with the calls for Hearts and ICT to consider sacking people for what may have been a one off or a snapshot in time. If I was judged on my behaviour in my late teens and early 20s now I'd be as good as unemployable.

[Scouse Hibee]

I think the latter point is one that should be considered.

You can't always judge someone on how they behaved 20 years ago. As poor as the behaviour is it's entirely possible Locke and Robertson are watched it back through their fingers and are embarrassed by their actions. People change and times change. I'm all for calling out this sort of thing but I'm not sure I agree with the calls for Hearts and ICT to consider sacking people for what may have been a one off or a snapshot in time. If I was judged on my behaviour in my late teens and early 20s now I'd be as good as unemployable.

Agree completely, times have changed and as much as some people seem to be stuck in a time warp, thankfully more seem to have moved on and adapted their behaviour accordingly.

[Libby Hibby]

There is a cultural acceptance to racism at Tynecastle with the Goncalves episode, Medals Mackay / Kevin Harper and now the song to Quitongo.

And that’s the instances that have made it to the public domain.

[Captain Trips]

I think the latter point is one that should be considered.

You can't always judge someone on how they behaved 20 years ago. As poor as the behaviour is it's entirely possible Locke and Robertson are watched it back through their fingers and are embarrassed by their actions. People change and times change. I'm all for calling out this sort of thing but I'm not sure I agree with the calls for Hearts and ICT to consider sacking people for what may have been a one off or a snapshot in time. If I was judged on my behaviour in my late teens and early 20s now I'd be as good as unemployable.

Fair post I would hope they were embarrassed. I would take the feeling on telling a joke not to everyones taste and somebody you told tells a person that thinks no that's not good the first thing the person who you told says it was him that told me and yeah that does become awkward and I would hope everyone is thinking about that including Jose.

[Captain Trips]

It really was like an episode of on the buses from the 70s. Mckay as Blaikey.

[lapsedhibee]

You can't always judge someone on how they behaved 20 years ago. As poor as the behaviour is it's entirely possible Locke and Robertson are watched it back through their fingers and are embarrassed by their actions. People change and times change. I'm all for calling out this sort of thing but I'm not sure I agree with the calls for Hearts and ICT to consider sacking people for what may have been a one off or a snapshot in time.

:agree:

[bigwheel]

I think the latter point is one that should be considered.

You can't always judge someone on how they behaved 20 years ago. As poor as the behaviour is it's entirely possible Locke and Robertson are watched it back through their fingers and are embarrassed by their actions. People change and times change. I'm all for calling out this sort of thing but I'm not sure I agree with the calls for Hearts and ICT to consider sacking people for what may have been a one off or a snapshot in time. If I was judged on my behaviour in my late teens and early 20s now I'd be as good as unemployable.


I think this post starts to get at the complexity of the situation - views on what is socially acceptable have changed notably, and people grow up and learn that loose language and actions against minorities has a much deeper impact than we understood when we were younger. To me this is like watching a poorly judged sketch show or comedy from twenty years ago...None of the actors will be proud of it..and none would do it again..

[Springbank]

There is a cultural acceptance to racism at Tynecastle with the Goncalves episode, Medals Mackay / Kevin Harper and now the song to Quitongo.

And that’s the instances that have made it to the public domain.

This.
This is Hearts problem.
Horrible club.
Fwiw i'd add years of tolerating the notorious section N to your list and onfield assaults on opposition players and managers.

[Sauzee16]

832 posts in the space of two months, good going Rubyhibee/Ivan Drago/SJM/Firestarter. Good to see you continue to talk utter dross in your current guise. :rolleyes:

What are you actually on about? Current guise? Talk utter dross?

Times have changed for the better incredibly since then. Did I say it was acceptable? Did I say it was funny? It’s cringey as anything.

[Sauzee16]

Doesn't really make it okay though, does it?

I never said it did.

[Sauzee16]

How many black players might have played for hearts around that time that maybe wouldn’t laugh at that?

In fact, scrap that, what about the decent people of any colour that would have felt uncomfortable with that.

I’d have thought Robertson and Locke would have been influential figures in that changing room, it would have needed to be a strong person to challenge them on something like that.

Shocker of a video and Lockes position at Hearts has to be under pressure now.

There would be plenty people uncomfortable at it. Perhaps it’s a personal joke about why the boys drinking water (quotongo)

[KWJ]

I'd say it was pretty bad even by 1998's standards.

Casual racism may have been more commom around the grounds and in society but not to the level of chanting.

[neil7908]

A thread on racism turns into a car crash. That’s a surprise.

For the posters saying ‘he’s laughing, what’s the harm?’. He’s surrounded by white guys who he has to work with singing a racist and homophobic song about him. Is it possible that he felt pressurised just to suck it up? Yeah, he could have had a tantrum but then destroys his relationships with his team-mates, likely leading to a big impact on his family seeing as he’d likely have to move clubs.

Best post on here. Yeah it was 20 years ago but I'm not really convinced that kinda stuff was OK then. The world changes rapidly but racism has been abhorrent for decades (less so homophobia unfortunately).

The point you make is correct - this guy was at work and had a bus full of his colleagues racially abusing him (presumably with his manager looking on). What was he supposed to do? Everyone will say I would have stood up and said this or that but we know that's not always the way the world works and in the circumstances I can totally see why Jose would have felt unable to do anything.

I'm not sure what the outcome of the video should be in terms of people losing their jobs but apologies are definitely called for and a clear message from the individuals that lessons have been learned, especially given the reason accusations about racism from fans at Tynecastle.

[matty_f]

Best post on here. Yeah it was 20 years ago but I'm not really convinced that kinda stuff was OK then. The world changes rapidly but racism has been abhorrent for decades (less so homophobia unfortunately).

The point you make is correct - this guy was at work and had a bus full of his colleagues racially abusing him (presumably with his manager looking on). What was he supposed to do? Everyone will say I would have stood up and said this or that but we know that's not always the way the world works and in the circumstances I can totally see why Jose would have felt unable to do anything.

I'm not sure what the outcome of the video should be in terms of people losing their jobs but apologies are definitely called for and a clear message from the individuals that lessons have been learned, especially given the reason accusations about racism from fans at Tynecastle.

:agree:

I would have known twenty years ago that singing that song was unacceptable, racist and homophobic.

Same as I knew folk were racist when they threw bananas at Mark Walters or made monkey noises to Kevin Harper.

[green day]

There would be plenty people uncomfortable at it. Perhaps it’s a personal joke about why the boys drinking water (quotongo)

A personal joke about quitongo drinking water? Have you lost the plot?

Its not a joke when they sing about the "wee black poof" quitongo drinking water?

Some people say it was "a different time" - pish, it was 1998, not 1978.

[Sauzee16]

A personal joke about quitongo drinking water? Have you lost the plot?

Its not a joke when they sing about the "wee black poof" quitongo drinking water?

Some people say it was "a different time" - pish, it was 1998, not 1978.

It sounds from that video it’s been sang before.

I’m not offended but I can see why people would. Quitongo doesn’t seem upset and he’s sent his children to play at Hearts also so if he’s faking not being upset he’s doing a marvellous job.

Ten years after that the majority of our support sang about Skacel being a refugee and Hartley being gay. Neither song would be acceptable now. Like that video it’s cringey as anything.

[matty_f]

It sounds from that video it’s been sang before.

I’m not offended but I can see why people would. Quitongo doesn’t seem upset and he’s sent his children to play at Hearts also so if he’s faking not being upset he’s doing a marvellous job.

Ten years after that the majority of our support sang about Skacel being a refugee and Hartley being gay. Neither song would be acceptable now. Like that video it’s cringey as anything.

Neither of those songs were acceptable at the time.

[Springbank]

It sounds from that video it’s been sang before.

I’m not offended but I can see why people would. Quitongo doesn’t seem upset and he’s sent his children to play at Hearts also so if he’s faking not being upset he’s doing a marvellous job.

Ten years after that the majority of our support sang about Skacel being a refugee and Hartley being gay. Neither song would be acceptable now. Like that video it’s cringey as anything.

sorry to ask but can you remind me what the 16 in sauzee16 stands for?

he never lost to hearts, did he?

[Thief]

The video makes for seriously uncomfortable viewing and I’m sure all the participants will be horrified at the part they played 20 years ago.
Someone in the thread used the phrase ‘a snapshot in time’ which I think is an excellent description and also covers something that I experienced, funnily enough around 1998 as well!
I started a new job and was being introduced to others in the office, and one guy was introduced by his given name, with the additional comment, ‘but everyone calls him 8 ball’
Perhaps I was just naive, or maybe I’m just a bit thick, but I immediately asked, in a room full of people if the guy was a pool player!
Cue, (pardon the pun) hilarious laughter from all present, except me, who didn’t get the joke!!
I left after a couple of years, and I’m sure at some point over time the nickname would be dropped, but I can guarantee that everyone involved would be absolutely horrified if a video of the incident was to surface all these years later.
I’m not defending or condoning the video, but it really is a case of another time another place. [emoji20]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[green day]

It sounds from that video it’s been sang before.

I’m not offended but I can see why people would. Quitongo doesn’t seem upset and he’s sent his children to play at Hearts also so if he’s faking not being upset he’s doing a marvellous job.

Ten years after that the majority of our support sang about Skacel being a refugee and Hartley being gay. Neither song would be acceptable now. Like that video it’s cringey as anything.

Nice one.

You can stick your whataboutery where the sun doesnt shine - fans singing offensive songs is one (unacceptable) thing, but this is team mates / colleagues.

If I saw a video of Mickey Weir singing about Kevin Harper being a "wee black poof" I would hope that an immediate apology was forthcoming - at the very least.

Quitongo might well think its all banter, but if that allows other white players to think this is acceptable behaviour and to perpetuate the myth that "its all a giggle" then he too is in the wrong.

[Beefster]

It seems that my memories of the culture in 1998 and what was acceptable at the time are vastly different to some folks’.

[Pretty Boy]

It seems that my memories of the culture in 1998 and what was acceptable at the time are vastly different to some folks’.

I've not seen many arguments it was wholly acceptable.

For me it's not whether behaviour is, or was, acceptable. It's not and wasn't. However Gary Locke was 22 when that was filmed, is it really neccessary for him to lose his job 2 decades later? Did everyone on here behave perfectly at that time in their life and would they be happy if an emotion and drink fuelled video was used as evidence as to their character when they are in their 40s?

I think it's possible to be aware the behaviour was unacceptable whilst realising it isn't neccessarily reflective of the values someone holds today. Fwiw I would argue in my menory casual racism did seem far more commonplace even 20 years ago compared to today. I remember a teacher in my school call a Chinese takeaway a 'chinky' and nothing was done, I don't think it was even reported. They'd be out a job within the week if that happened now.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I've not seen many arguments it was wholly acceptable.

For me it's not whether behaviour is, or was, acceptable. It's not and wasn't. However Gary Locke was 22 when that was filmed, is it really neccessary for him to lose his job 2 decades later? Did everyone on here behave perfectly at that time in their life and would they be happy if an emotion and drink fuelled video was used as evidence as to their character when they are in their 40s?

I think it's possible to be aware the behaviour was unacceptable whilst realising it isn't neccessarily reflective of the values someone holds today. Fwiw I would argue in my menory casual racism did seem far more commonplace even 20 years ago compared to today. I remember a teacher in my school call a Chinese takeaway a 'chinky' and nothing was done, I don't think it was even reported. They'd be out a job within the week if that happened now.

I found an old tour programme from my playing days (1995) the other week and cringed when I read under the tour rules “ no poofs” - was listed just after dress code etc.

[green day]

I've not seen many arguments it was wholly acceptable.

For me it's not whether behaviour is, or was, acceptable. It's not and wasn't. However Gary Locke was 22 when that was filmed, is it really neccessary for him to lose his job 2 decades later? Did everyone on here behave perfectly at that time in their life and would they be happy if an emotion and drink fuelled video was used as evidence as to their character when they are in their 40s?

I think it's possible to be aware the behaviour was unacceptable whilst realising it isn't reflective of the values someone holds today. Fwiw I would argue in my menory casual racism did seem far more commonplace even 20 years ago compared to today. I remember a teacher in my school call a Chinese takeaway a 'chinky' and nothing was done, I don't think it was even reported. They'd be out a job within the week if that happened now.


We were cycling in trossachs a couple of years ago, and on looking for grub, an old guy we know that stays there was shouting across the boozer "Mary, Mary - the laddies here want a curry or a chinky - is the chinky up the road better than the chinky doon the road" We all got total redders, but the pub (mostly older guys) didnt bat an eyelid !!

[Danderhall Hibs]

If I saw a video of Mickey Weir singing about Kevin Harper being a "wee black poof" I would hope that an immediate apology was forthcoming - at the very least.


Not a great example given Mickey Weir was also subject to horrendous homophobic abuse at the hands of jambos.

[Hibernian Verse]

We were cycling in trossachs a couple of years ago, and on looking for grub, an old guy we know that stays there was shouting across the boozer "Mary, Mary - the laddies here want a curry or a chinky - is the chinky up the road better than the chinky doon the road" We all got total redders, but the pub (mostly older guys) didnt bat an eyelid !!

It's an interesting one. The guy isn't being racist, although perhaps a bit naive. He is referring to a Chinese meal as a Chinky, he's not calling the people anything derogatory in his eyes.

It's not a deliberate act.

When I get called a Jock by my mates down South I don't get offended. Which brings me on to my next point. This thread is one big attempt to be offended by something that doesn't affect the majority of the forum.

I've asked a friend who you could say was in a similar situation to Quitongo. He's not bothered by it.

Disclaimer: I DON'T CONDONE IT.

[Keith_M]

I saw an interview with Jim Davidson years back and they were asking him how he could justify his racist jokes on a Forces tour to the Falklands.

His reaction was that there were a couple of black guys in the audience and they both laughed.



Okay then.


----


As an aside: Anybody that thinks offensive views are restricted to followers of their rival club are very naive.

[green day]

Not a great example given Mickey Weir was also subject to horrendous homophobic abuse at the hands of jambos.

Fair enough, but presumably you understand the reason I selected MW is because I was looking for a white ex player, currently employed by Hibs (in line with the Gary Locke scenario) ?

[Sauzee16]

Neither of those songs were acceptable at the time.

I agree. It didn’t stop the majority of the support signing them though.
Now, it would get booed down.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Fair enough, but presumably you understand the reason I selected MW is because I was looking for a white ex player, currently employed by Hibs (in line with the Gary Locke scenario) ?

Of course - just wanted to give another example of them being out of order.

[Sauzee16]

sorry to ask but can you remind me what the 16 in sauzee16 stands for?

he never lost to hearts, did he?

Erm 16 is a pretty obvious number don’t you think? Cast your mind back a couple of years ago today and what was happening.

And no, Le God never lost to Hearts as player or manager and I was at every single one of the games to celebrate including our first win at Tynie in ages and the last min draw when he was manager. If you are implying I’m a hearts fan fair enough, you couldn’t be further from the truth though.

[Sauzee16]

Nice one.

You can stick your whataboutery where the sun doesnt shine - fans singing offensive songs is one (unacceptable) thing, but this is team mates / colleagues.

If I saw a video of Mickey Weir singing about Kevin Harper being a "wee black poof" I would hope that an immediate apology was forthcoming - at the very least.

Quitongo might well think its all banter, but if that allows other white players to think this is acceptable behaviour and to perpetuate the myth that "its all a giggle" then he too is in the wrong.

An immediate apology to who? I would imagine given the abuse given to Harper at the time he would have found it completely unacceptable. If Quotongo is on a bus with his team mates and he’s not offended then who exactly is? Apart from people seeing the video 20 years later.

[green day]

I agree. It didn’t stop the majority of the support signing them though.
Now, it would get booed down.

You still havent responded to mine above - to recap:

Fans singing offensive songs is one (unacceptable) thing, but this is team mates / colleagues.

If I saw a video of an ex hibs player singing about a black colleague being a "wee black poof" I would hope that something was said - especially if said white player was a "club ambassador".

But.......you know that, dont you?

[lapsedhibee]

I've not seen many arguments it was wholly acceptable.

For me it's not whether behaviour is, or was, acceptable. It's not and wasn't. However Gary Locke was 22 when that was filmed, is it really neccessary for him to lose his job 2 decades later? Did everyone on here behave perfectly at that time in their life and would they be happy if an emotion and drink fuelled video was used as evidence as to their character when they are in their 40s?

I think it's possible to be aware the behaviour was unacceptable whilst realising it isn't neccessarily reflective of the values someone holds today. Fwiw I would argue in my menory casual racism did seem far more commonplace even 20 years ago compared to today. I remember a teacher in my school call a Chinese takeaway a 'chinky' and nothing was done, I don't think it was even reported. They'd be out a job within the week if that happened now.
:agree:

[Sauzee16]

You still havent responded to mine above - to recap:

Fans singing offensive songs is one (unacceptable) thing, but this is team mates / colleagues.

If I saw a video of an ex hibs player singing about a black colleague being a "wee black poof" I would hope that something was said - especially if said white player was a "club ambassador".

But.......you know that, dont you?

No. Neither is more acceptable than the other. In fact one is abuse and one isn’t . I wasn’t going to reply to your post either considering the offensive tone to it but hey, I’m over it.

Was something said by Hibs when Super Leigh sang the Skacel song in the roseburn?

[green day]

No. Neither is more acceptable than the other. In fact one is abuse and one isn’t . I wasn’t going to reply to your post either considering the offensive tone to it but hey, I’m over it.

Was something said by Hibs when Super Leigh sang the Skacel song in the roseburn?

That statement doesnt make any sense !!

The bit in bold - You mean the Celtic player, Leigh Griffiths? Why would hibs comment?

[calumhibee1]

To all the folk saying society has moved on and it was a different time etc, the same could be said if Operation Yewtree. Obviously a more serious set of crimes, but at the end of the day, the Hearts cup winning team judging from that video all indulged in homophobic and racist singing.

[Captain Trips]

Why would I bother about it if the song is not even being taken seriously by the person it is sang at. If he can't be bothered or is arsed neither would I.

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video if it's taken at face value. It's unacceptable to say it then it's unacceptable to go along with.

Suggesting he is only going along with it as all white team mates or worried to speak up or any other reason has no founding from that clip. That clip can only be taken at face value and everyone involved is in the wrong. If anyone is offended and I can fully understand why.

I fully believe that video isn't the only time that sort of thing occurred either. Jose has been away from Hearts for years if he felt compelled to comment on his time I have never heard of him saying anything. He may not feel he wants to he may be bothered but does not want to bring it up or he just maybe didn't care.

Maybe he will come out and comment on it now it's out there.

[lapsedhibee]

To all the folk saying society has moved on and it was a different time etc, the same could be said if Operation Yewtree. Obviously a more serious set of crimes, but at the end of the day, the Hearts cup winning team judging from that video all indulged in homophobic and racist singing.

:bitchy:

They should all be hunted down and brought to justice, as if they'd run on to a football pitch to celebrate.

[Thecat23]

Some folk are just digging a deeper hole for themselves!

I also can’t mind the “majority” of hibs fans signing the Rudi song, it was a minority and it was wrong.

[Sauzee16]

That statement doesnt make any sense !!

The bit in bold - You mean the Celtic player, Leigh Griffiths? Why would hibs comment?

So why would hearts apologise on behalf of the Inverness manager then?

[matty_f]

Some folk are just digging a deeper hole for themselves!

I also can’t mind the “majority” of hibs fans signing the Rudi song, it was a minority and it was wrong.

Correct.

[Thecat23]

Why would I bother about it if the song is not even being taken seriously by the person it is sang at. If he can't be bothered or is arsed neither would I.

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video if it's taken at face value. It's unacceptable to say it then it's unacceptable to go along with.

Suggesting he is only going along with it as all white team mates or worried to speak up or any other reason has no founding from that clip. That clip can only be taken at face value and everyone involved is in the wrong. If anyone is offended and I can fully understand why.

Did you just say Jose is also at fault for this? 😳

WOW!

[Sauzee16]

Some folk are just digging a deeper hole for themselves!

I also can’t mind the “majority” of hibs fans signing the Rudi song, it was a minority and it was wrong.

Maybe you didn’t sit in the east then or been to the roseburn or in the roseburn. The game that song was first sang (Benji game) it was almost every hibs fan. Again, I’m not that bothered it was a long time ago and it’s more cringey than offensive now.

[Thecat23]

Maybe you didn’t sit in the east then or been to the roseburn.

So if it’s just the East (not all that I remember) then it’s not the majority.

[Kato]

I also can’t mind the “majority” of hibs fans signing the Rudi song, it was a minority and it was wrong.

Totally correct.

[Kato]

Maybe you didn’t sit in the east then or been to the roseburn or in the roseburn. The game that song was first sang (Benji game) it was almost every hibs fan. Again, I’m not that bothered it was a long time ago and it’s more cringey than offensive now.

Absolute garbage.

[Captain Trips]

Did you just say Jose is also at fault for this? 😳

WOW!

Aye I did they all are. Kick out Racism in football and in general not appear to find it a joke and go along with it. So I am saying he is at fault also 100%. Does not help if someone is finding it a joke does it.

That I doubt was first or last time it likely occurred or something similar if the Hearts player are laughing are out of order why isn't he?

You can back up by saying aye he probably was worried or just went along as didn't want to get punted all this is total and utter unfounded from that clip and from face value has to be what it goes on not what Jose might really be thinking.

The guy is laughing and I can only take it at that so therefore he is as bad as the rest of them for the whole thing being deemed OK by those participating.

[green day]

So why would hearts apologise on behalf of the Inverness manager then?

Nobody asked that.

I think you are deliberately being obtuse - Gary Locke is a Hearts ambassador.

But again, you know all of this.

[Sauzee16]

Nobody asked that.

I think you are deliberately being obtuse - Gary Locke is a Hearts ambassador.

But again, you know all of this.

Why do you have to be so patronising? You didn’t say at all the club should apologise on behalf of Golden Gary. You said the club should apologise on behalf of the players involved actions.

[Thecat23]

Aye I did they all are. Kick out Racism in football and in general not appear to find it a joke and go along with it. So I am saying he is at fault also 100%. Does not help if someone is finding it a joke does it.

So if someone is being racially abused, if they do speak up they are as bad as the ones doing it? Even though they are outnumbered by many like the video in this case.

Sorry that’s absolute bollocks, like saying to a kid that’s being bullied it’s their fault for just taking it.

[Sauzee16]

Absolute garbage.

No it’s not.

[Sauzee16]

So if it’s just the East (not all that I remember) then it’s not the majority.

So nobody else sang it then? Just a minority in the roseburn bar and the roseburn stand? Hardly anyone sang Paul Hartley is gay?

All incidents are historical and belong in the past.

[Thecat23]

No it’s not.

Actually it is.

[Kato]

No it’s not.

Sticking to your guns in an internet discussion. On ye go.

No way "almost every Hibs fan" or even "the majority" were singing that song. I like the vivid imagination though. Bye.

[Sauzee16]

Actually it is.

Fair enough. I’ve taken enough abuse to argue back. I don’t think it is though. Perhaps being in the east it sounded like the whole stadium. Apologies to anyone offended.

[Sauzee16]

Sticking to your guns in an internet discussion. On ye go.

No way "almost every Hibs fan" or even "the majority" were singing that song. I like the vivid imagination though. Bye.

Where did you sit in the Benji game out of interest? Did you hear the song and express your outrage anywhere?

[bigwheel]

No it’s not.

It is...as a veteran of the west stand lower....never heard that song sung there ever...and comments like this , make me wonder if you are actually a Hibs fan.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Thecat23]

So nobody else sang it then? Just a minority in the roseburn bar and the roseburn stand? Hardly anyone sang Paul Hartley is gay?

All incidents are historical and belong in the past.

You said almost “all” Hibs fans sang it. No they didn’t! If you are in the middle of a signing section at may feel everyone is sinnging when that’s not the case.

[Kato]

Fair enough. I’ve taken enough abuse to argue back. I don’t think it is though. Perhaps being in the east it sounded like the whole stadium. Apologies to anyone offended.

Boooo. You gave up way too easy.

No need to apologise. I hear and read people generalise and tell lies about the Hibs support practically every day and wasn't offended. It's just a bit sad.

[Captain Trips]

So if someone is being racially abused, if they do speak up they are as bad as the ones doing it? Even though they are outnumbered by many like the video in this case.

Sorry that’s absolute bollocks, like saying to a kid that’s being bullied it’s their fault for just taking it.

Utter garbage I am not saying he is taking it, you are you have decided you have gone beyond face value and appear to think Jose is putting up with it. That is an issue however on this occasion it appears he isn't bothered and is fine with it so it's totally different from someone just to scared or wanting or taking it.

Jose does not appear to be taking anything he appears to be involved. Your analagy is nonsense and based on folk not standing up but who are bothered by what is said. So it appears you think Jose is bothered but just didn't want to say if that's the case then I agree however I do not think that I think he finds it a laugh and the video only supports that not what he may think so based on that he is laughing along with the others and is also at fault.

[Kato]

Where did you sit in the Benji game out of interest? Did you hear the song and express your outrage anywhere?

In the east. I didn't have any outrage to express. I did tell my mates wee brother not to join in. Is that helping you in your argument in any way?

[green day]

Why do you have to be so patronising? You didn’t say at all the club should apologise on behalf of Golden Gary. You said the club should apologise on behalf of the players involved actions.

If Hibs were involved, I am 100% certain something would be said - I actually do expect Hearts to make a statement, if only to ensure they win the "statement league".

In my previous I was clearly describing the situation where one of the the involved ex players was a club ambassador (I actually say that in the post).

While JR used to work for Hearts, the only one thats a current ambassador is Gary Locke.

I am happy to explain the details, sorry if you find it patronising..........

[My_Wife_Camille]

Why would I bother about it if the song is not even being taken seriously by the person it is sang at. If he can't be bothered or is arsed neither would I.

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video if it's taken at face value. It's unacceptable to say it then it's unacceptable to go along with.

Suggesting he is only going along with it as all white team mates or worried to speak up or any other reason has no founding from that clip. That clip can only be taken at face value and everyone involved is in the wrong. If anyone is offended and I can fully understand why.

I fully believe that video isn't the only time that sort of thing occurred either. Jose has been away from Hearts for years if he felt compelled to comment on his time I have never heard of him saying anything. He may not feel he wants to he may be bothered but does not want to bring it up or he just maybe didn't care.

Maybe he will come out and comment on it now it's out there.
Wow.

Im not saying you’re racist but some of these comments are very similar to something a racist person might say :rolleyes:

Blaming the victim for being racially abused is simply unbelievable

[TrinityHibs]

It is...as a veteran of the west stand lower....never heard that song sung there ever...and comments like this , make me wonder if you are actually a Hibs fan.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t believe he is. Maybe somebody can vouch for him.

[Thecat23]

Utter garbage I am not saying he is taking it, you are you have decided you have gone beyond face value and appear to think Jose is putting up with it. That is an issue however on this occasion it appears he isn't bothered and is fine with it so it's totally different from someone just to scared or wanting or taking it.

Jose does not appear to be taking anything he appears to be involved. Your analagy is nonsense and based on folk not standing up but who are bothered by what is said. So it appears you think Jose is bothered but just didn't want to say if that's the case then I agree however I do not think that I think he finds it a laugh and the video only supports that not what he may think so based on that he is laughing along with the others and is also at fault.

Sorry the only thing that’s nonsense is the stuff in you’re posts. I’m out now I’ll leave you to blame Jose!!

[KWJ]

4 mins in and Jose gets some racist ribbing once more. https://youtu.be/HgjZ2kA9yTw .

From the bus video is it actually Locke and Robertson singing? Looks like Paul Rithie is well involved.

[Captain Trips]

Wow.

Im not saying you’re racist but some of these comments are very similar to something a racist person might say :rolleyes:

Blaming the victim for being racially abused is simply unbelievable

Utter nonsense I'm not blaming him what a disgrace. I am saying he isn't even a victim he is laughing about it and he shouldn't be should he. You have decided he truly deep down isn't happy and just didn't want to say anything. If that is case then that is different there is no evidence to state he is not doing anything other than finding it a joke.

How does what I say blame him? I blame all of them. Utter nonsense blaming the victim.

[Captain Trips]

Sorry the only thing that’s nonsense is the stuff in you’re posts. I’m out now I’ll leave you to blame Jose!!

I'm blaming Jose now? Unbelievable. So it's OK to laugh at Racism then as he is doing? He isn't to blame he is part of it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Utter nonsense I'm not blaming him what a disgrace. I am saying he isn't even a victim he is laughing about it and he shouldn't be should he. You have decided he truly deep down isn't happy and just didn't want to say anything. If that is case then that is different there is no evidence to state he is not doing anything other than finding it a joke.

How does what I say blame him? I blame all of them. Utter nonsense blaming the victim.

Thats something i disagree with you on here, his race is the victim, which he is part of. He's being singled out because of his colour whether he's laughing or not.

[Smartie]

We can't wash our hands of the Skacel song.

It was no less a minority than the proportion of fans that make the likes of the Billy Boys ring out at Ibrox.

When it was first aired, barely anyone objected.

I sang it, and can barely believe now that I did, same with the Hartley song.

The past 10 years or so have seen a drastic change in what is considered to be acceptable.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Utter nonsense I'm not blaming him what a disgrace. I am saying he isn't even a victim he is laughing about it and he shouldn't be should he. You have decided he truly deep down isn't happy and just didn't want to say anything. If that is case then that is different there is no evidence to state he is not doing anything other than finding it a joke.

How does what I say blame him? I blame all of them. Utter nonsense blaming the victim.
Deary me...

Maybe you should check your white privilege

[lapsedhibee]

Wow.

Im not saying you’re racist but some of these comments are very similar to something a racist person might say :rolleyes:

Blaming the victim for being racially abused is simply unbelievable

He's clearly not doing that.

[FilipinoHibs]

Totally correct.

A minority in the East and I and many others shouted them down.

[Thecat23]

I'm blaming Jose now? Unbelievable. So it's OK to laugh at Racism then as he is doing? He isn't to blame he is part of it.

No he’s not part of it he’s the victim. The fact you can’t see this is unreal!

[Captain Trips]

Simple no need to try and speculate what folk on a bus truly feel. The players should not have started singing he shouldn't be laughing at it. Simple

People have just decided he was bothered but couldn't say or something else stopped him. How about he just went along with it and found it funny as out of order as that is.

[Captain Trips]

No he’s not part of it he’s the victim. The fact you can’t see this is unreal!

You are more bothered then he was so why don't you do something he isn't a victim he is having a laugh in very bad taste and he shouldn't pure and simple.

Like it or not that is what video shows racist remarks said to somebody who is finding it a laugh. All out if order INO

[Pete]

I’m not sure how many black players were in our game back then but this is an interesting snapshot into dressing room banter that was deemed acceptable. I think Jose’s reaction is down to the limited options he had to do anything about it. What is he supposed to do, fall out with everyone and upset the team dynamic? A team that at the end of the day are his mates.

People know where the boundaries are these days and if they didn’t, there would be more than one person, black or otherwise, to tell them.

Reluctant to try and score any points out of this.

[Squirrel 1875]

How can anyone defend the behaviour in that video? Blatant racism. Jose had no choice but to react the way that he did. Classless.

[Hibee Daft]

I might be wrong but I think you lot are overreacting.

Everyone hears the word black and immediately shout racism.

The fact is they are slagging him because he's not getting bevvied up. Thats the real elephant in the room but no one is bothered about that.

Players slagging each other is part of dressing room banter.

[Beefster]

Why would I bother about it if the song is not even being taken seriously by the person it is sang at. If he can't be bothered or is arsed neither would I.

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video if it's taken at face value. It's unacceptable to say it then it's unacceptable to go along with.

Suggesting he is only going along with it as all white team mates or worried to speak up or any other reason has no founding from that clip. That clip can only be taken at face value and everyone involved is in the wrong. If anyone is offended and I can fully understand why.

I fully believe that video isn't the only time that sort of thing occurred either. Jose has been away from Hearts for years if he felt compelled to comment on his time I have never heard of him saying anything. He may not feel he wants to he may be bothered but does not want to bring it up or he just maybe didn't care.

Maybe he will come out and comment on it now it's out there.

Holy ****.

You’re on fire. A black guy gets a racist, homophobic song sung at him by a large group of white workmates. Your reaction is to dismiss it before doing a switcheroo and blaming the black guy.

[KWJ]

I might be wrong but I think you lot are overreacting.

Everyone hears the word black and immediately shout racism.

The fact is they are slagging him because he's not getting bevvied up. Thats the real elephant in the room but no one is bothered about that.

Players slagging each other is part of dressing room banter.

The video I linked to in the last page is far more blatant.

Agree with you on the drinking bit, while that's getting better it's still far more common place. "Go oan...take a drink".

[Captain Trips]

Holy ****.

You’re on fire. A black guy gets a racist, homophobic song sung at him by a large group of white workmates. Your reaction is to dismiss it before doing a switcheroo and blaming the black guy.

I'm out not blaming him. He is at fault as well isn't blaming him. So is it OK for him to laugh at it?

[My_Wife_Camille]

Holy ****.

You’re on fire. A black guy gets a racist, homophobic song sung at him by a large group of white workmates. Your reaction is to dismiss it before doing a switcheroo and blaming the black guy.
:agree: Absolutely frightening stuff

[SRHibs]

I'm out not blaming him. He is at fault as well isn't blaming him. So is it OK for him to laugh at it?

How do you suggest he react then? Are you saying when people get bullied and attempt to laugh it off they’re somehow perpetuating the problem?

Come on man.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm out not blaming him. He is at fault as well isn't blaming him. So is it OK for him to laugh at it?

Have you read any of the other replies?

He laughs because he is the only black man on a bus full of colleagues giving it massive racist and homophobic " banter". To react otherwise would alienate the daft ****s and potentially jeopardise his own employment.

Stop digging and just accept. It was classless and clueless then and still is now.

[lord bunberry]

I'm out not blaming him. He is at fault as well isn't blaming him. So is it OK for him to laugh at it?
You should bow out of this thread mate. You’re not coming out of this well. None of us know how Jose felt about the song being sung, but surely you can’t fail to recognise he might just be laughing to go with the flow and not rock the boat. To say he’s partly to blame is almost as offensive as those singing the song.

[lapsedhibee]

You’re on fire. A black guy gets a racist, homophobic song sung at him by a large group of white workmates. Your reaction is to dismiss it before doing a switcheroo and blaming the black guy.

Shirley victim blaming is where the victim is asserted to have somehow caused the incident where he or she suffers. Example: woman gets molested and perp asserts that she was wearing a short skirt. Example: paedophile claims that victim 'led him on' or 'wanted it'. CT is not claiming that Jose caused the Hearts morons to start singing at him. Victim blaming in this case would be 'If Jose had drunk Tennents like everyone else the song couldn't have happened', wouldn't it? :dunno:

[lord bunberry]

Shirley victim blaming is where the victim is asserted to have somehow caused the incident where he or she suffers. Example: woman gets molested and perp asserts that she was wearing a short skirt. Example: paedophile claims that victim 'led him on' or 'wanted it'. CT is not claiming that Jose caused the Hearts morons to start singing at him. Victim blaming in this case would be 'If Jose had drunk Tennents like everyone else the song couldn't have happened', wouldn't it? :dunno:
He is saying he’s as much to blame though. It doesn’t really matter what the term for it is.

[Kato]

I don't get the "it was a long time ago" thing. 1990's is 40 years on from the Civil Rights movement, 25 years on from Rock Against Racism, 10 years into House music culture. There was also Anti-Racist initiative's in football and other sphere's very much to the fore in those days. It's not as though it's the 1890's. Anyone being racist back then is either uneducated to a very deep level, an inadequate that can't help themselves putting others down - or - simply a racist prick.

Using "the times" as an excuse doesn't wash.

[My_Wife_Camille]

It’s seems that clip was just the tip of the iceberg...

Another clip of the players asking Quitongo if he’ll melt in the sun has come out now

[Thecat23]

Anyone else seen the other video? Jose says something about a kit kat, They then tell Jose he’s a “kit-kat” and asks if he’d “melt.”

[Beefster]

Shirley victim blaming is where the victim is asserted to have somehow caused the incident where he or she suffers. Example: woman gets molested and perp asserts that she was wearing a short skirt. Example: paedophile claims that victim 'led him on' or 'wanted it'. CT is not claiming that Jose caused the Hearts morons to start singing at him. Victim blaming in this case would be 'If Jose had drunk Tennents like everyone else the song couldn't have happened', wouldn't it? :dunno:

Surely, blame is just the act of assigning fault.

[Billy Whizz]

Anyone else seen the other video? Jose says something about a kit kat, They then tell Jose he’s a “kit-kat” and asks if he’d “melt.”

Who’s releasing these Cat, and why

[Beefster]

Anyone else seen the other video? Jose says something about a kit kat, They then tell Jose he’s a “kit-kat” and asks if he’d “melt.”

He’s at fault for talking about kit-kats when he knew he was black. Or something.

[Thecat23]

Who’s releasing these Cat, and why

Honestly have no idea Billy. Not sure why this is coming out now, but it’s not good viewing even though it was a few years ago.

[KWJ]

Who’s releasing these Cat, and why

https://youtu.be/HgjZ2kA9yTw 4 mins in for the cringe, clear Edinburgh accent. Locke or Ritchie I'd guess.

They've been on youtube for years.

[Smartie]

I don't get the "it was a long time ago" thing. 1990's is 40 years on from the Civil Rights movement, 25 years on from Rock Against Racism, 10 years into House music culture. There was also Anti-Racist initiative's in football and other sphere's very much to the fore in those days. It's not as though it's the 1890's. Anyone being racist back then is either uneducated to a very deep level, an inadequate that can't help themselves putting others down - or - simply a racist prick.

Using "the times" as an excuse doesn't wash.

I honestly do think "the times" have changed since then though. It's not a valid excuse, but it can be a part explanation.

In the 1970s we had the likes of Bernard Manning considered mainstream entertainment. Thinks have steadily evolved from there. By 1998 things were nowhere near what we have today. I could just imagine someone suggesting in 1998 that gay marriage would've legal in 20 years, and I remember casual racist comments at Easter Road being rife.

Would any of the people on that bus say today what they did then? I don't think so.

Because times have undoubtedly changed.

[Scouse Hibee]

I don't get the "it was a long time ago" thing. 1990's is 40 years on from the Civil Rights movement, 25 years on from Rock Against Racism, 10 years into House music culture. There was also Anti-Racist initiative's in football and other sphere's very much to the fore in those days. It's not as though it's the 1890's. Anyone being racist back then is either uneducated to a very deep level, an inadequate that can't help themselves putting others down - or - simply a racist prick.

Using "the times" as an excuse doesn't wash.

Let's be realistic those type of conversations/banter racist or not were still commonplace in the workplace/pub etc then. That's the reality of it.

[matty_f]

He’s at fault for talking about kit-kats when he knew he was black. Or something.

Shouldn't even be eating biscuits. He's practically asking for it.

[matty_f]

Let's be realistic those type of conversations/banter racist or not were still commonplace in the workplace/pub etc then. That's the reality of it.

Not where I worked or drank, to be fair.

[Kato]

I honestly do think "the times" have changed since then though. It's not a valid excuse, but it can be a part explanation.

In the 1970s we had the likes of Bernard Manning considered mainstream entertainment. Thinks have steadily evolved from there. By 1998 things were nowhere near what we have today. I could just imagine someone suggesting in 1998 that gay marriage would've legal in 20 years, and I remember casual racist comments at Easter Road being rife.

Would any of the people on that bus say today what they did then? I don't think so.

Because times have undoubtedly changed.

Here's another way to look at it. The "times" have changed for the worse. I read and hear more racism now than I did back then, Brexit loosening tongues, the status of immigrants being discussed using racist terms, the reaction against anti-racist legislation. People are either racist or not whether it's now or then, tacit or expressed.

[Kato]

Not where I worked or drank, to be fair.

Same here.

[WhileTheChief..]

Let's be realistic those type of conversations/banter racist or not were still commonplace in the workplace/pub etc then. That's the reality of it.

In 1998?

Nah, maybe 78 or at a push 88.

[Scouse Hibee]

Not where I worked or drank, to be fair.

I'll give you a few examples from the workplace. There were two Brian's one was identified quite easily as he was "Black Brian" there was the "Hamilton" that worked in the canteen and don't get me started on "The faggots" that always sat together at lunch. I started there in 1992 and left in 2002, don't remember that much change in those conversations.

[Scouse Hibee]

In 1998?

Nah, maybe 78 or at a push 88.

I started work there in 92 and very much doubt I managed to find the one and only workplace in Edinburgh with such banter!

[WhileTheChief..]

Not disputing it happened in your workplace but it certainly wasn’t common place then, and definitely not in Edinburgh.

We’d had Cool Britannia and “Things Can Only Get Better” etc by then.

The country had moved on from the days of Ain’t Half Hot Mum!

[Scouse Hibee]

Not disputing it happened in your workplace but it certainly wasn’t common place then, and definitely not in Edinburgh.

We’d had Cool Britannia and “Things Can Only Get Better” etc by then.

The country had moved on from the days of Ain’t Half Hot Mum!

By the way, I'm not saying it was acceptable and I recall HR becoming involved with a certain individual when a "faggot" comment was overhead by one of it's intended targets. Just that people tend to forget how recently this behaviour was commonplace and maybe still is.

[Pretty Boy]

I started work there in 92 and very much doubt I managed to find the one and only workplace in Edinburgh with such banter!

I’m surprised at how few people seem to have encountered this kind of thing in their day to day lives. I still hear it now in my workplace now on occasion, it’s just easier to pull people up about it now.

I started high school in the same year as this video was filmed and there were so many examples of casual racism, homophobia, misogyny and whatever else that I’d need about 7 pages just to list them. I started working part time a few years later and there were plenty examples of ‘canteen culture’ there as well., this was into the 00s. I’d wager my high school and local Tesco weren’t the only places that was occurring.

None of that makes it acceptable but I don’t think the video shows anything that wasn’t happening elsewhere at the time. I suppose the big difference is people weren’t holding the thickos I worked with up as some kind of role model in the same way they do with football players.

[Scouse Hibee]

Not disputing it happened in your workplace but it certainly wasn’t common place then, and definitely not in Edinburgh.

We’d had Cool Britannia and “Things Can Only Get Better” etc by then.

The country had moved on from the days of Ain’t Half Hot Mum!

Sadly it was still commonplace then.

[KWJ]

I think some terms the people had used in innocence before were still rife but the videos show Love thy neighbour aged humour with regard to him melting in the heat (or 2017 if you're in Russia) and the song targets his race again. That's 2 instances from the same day when they just happened to be filming.

[Smartie]

Here's another way to look at it. The "times" have changed for the worse. I read and hear more racism now than I did back then, Brexit loosening tongues, the status of immigrants being discussed using racist terms, the reaction against anti-racist legislation. People are either racist or not whether it's now or then, tacit or expressed.

I agree with you here. Decades of good work have been undone over the past 5 years or so.

In my opinion times have changed for the worse most recently.

Some people's thoughts and opinions change, some do not. Within my lifetime I know I have learnt that the affectionate name my grandparents had for their local shop was a hideous racist slur and a word never to be used.

We're not yet at the stage where thoughts and opinions can be prosecuted and that is a good thing. We can certainly choose the language that is used in public though, and the definition of "acceptable language" will vary over the years, for the better and sadly also for the worse.

People may well be as racist as they ever were but it as long as it isn't articulated then we can only speculate. The reduction in open racist language may simply be due to the increased chances of getting caught, with cctv and camera phones everywhere these days.

[The Green Goblin]

Holy ****.

You’re on fire. A black guy gets a racist, homophobic song sung at him by a large group of white workmates. Your reaction is to dismiss it before doing a switcheroo and blaming the black guy.

Total shocker. Difficult to believe.

[Keith_M]

I'd just like to point out that, just because there wasn't the same outcry in the media, a lot of people found Bernard Mannning and people of his ilk to be offensive.

In my considered opinion, there are no more or less racists in the UK than there were in the 1970s, just a difference in the numbers of people willing to say things in public (for or against).


The only really difference nowadays is the public outcry and the fact that the Media have cottoned on to it. There are still a very high number of people with offensive views, and the recent anti-immigrant rubbish proves that.

[lord bunberry]

I'd just like to point out that, just because there wasn't the same outcry in the media, a lot of people found Bernard Mannning and people of his ilk to be offensive.

In my considered opinion, there are no more or less racists in the UK than there were in the 1970s, just a difference in the numbers of people willing to say things in public (for or against).


The only really difference nowadays is the public outcry and the fact that the Media have cottoned on to it. There are still a very high number of people with offensive views, and the recent anti-immigrant rubbish proves that.
:agree: That’s true, some of the stuff I hear at work is unbelievable.

[lapsedhibee]

I honestly do think "the times" have changed since then though. It's not a valid excuse, but it can be a part explanation.

In the 1970s we had the likes of Bernard Manning considered mainstream entertainment. Thinks have steadily evolved from there. By 1998 things were nowhere near what we have today. I could just imagine someone suggesting in 1998 that gay marriage would've legal in 20 years, and I remember casual racist comments at Easter Road being rife.

Would any of the people on that bus say today what they did then? I don't think so.

Because times have undoubtedly changed.
:agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Surely, blame is just the act of assigning fault.

Agree, but 'victim blaming' or 'blaming the victim' has a reasonably specific meaning and I don't think CT was fairly accused of that.

Victim blaming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming)

[lapsedhibee]

I'll give you a few examples from the workplace. There were two Brian's one was identified quite easily as he was "Black Brian" there was the "Hamilton" that worked in the canteen and don't get me started on "The faggots" that always sat together at lunch. I started there in 1992 and left in 2002, don't remember that much change in those conversations.

I visited an office in the early 90s where the boss openly referred to a gay male employee as "her".

[SRHibs]

Agree, but 'victim blaming' or 'blaming the victim' has a reasonably specific meaning and I don't think CT was fairly accused of that.

Victim blaming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming)

If his attitude towards racism aimed at him perpetuates it then victim blaming is still an appropriate term IMO.

The OP seemed to be suggesting that without his nonchalance those types of chants wouldn’t happen.

[lapsedhibee]

If his attitude towards racism aimed at him perpetuates it then victim blaming is still an appropriate term IMO.

The OP seemed to be suggesting that without his nonchalance those types of chants wouldn’t happen.

I took CT to be suggesting only that responsibility for stamping all that stuff out is shared by all the people in the video.

[sleeping giant]

I visited an office in the early 90s where the boss openly referred to a gay male employee as "her".

I worked beside a gay male in a bar who used to refer to men he fancied as "her".

[lapsedhibee]

I worked beside a gay male in a bar who used to refer to men he fancied as "her".

Ah. Does that mean it's acceptable? :confused:

[sleeping giant]

Ah. Does that mean it's acceptable? :confused:

Steady.

Why assume that ?
Just joining in :greengrin

[Captain Trips]

I took CT to be suggesting only that responsibility for stamping all that stuff out is shared by all the people in the video.

Correct however people on here have decided that Jose was only going along with it as he was surrounded by white team mates or felt best just to go along with it. Maybe that's how they would react how the hell does anyone on here know how he felt about it? because it bothers you it simply had to be the same for him? You have no idea his relationship with those players and what they say to each other daily. None of it is acceptable then or now but I am not going to start getting pissed off about if the person on the other end of it isn't arsed about it.

1. If Jose is indeed only going along as didn't feel he could say anything then yes 100% that isn't on and he is being victimised. The players are bawbags.

2. If the other option and that is Jose is not bothered by it and did find it funny then that for me isn't the right attitude to stamp this out either. The players are still bawbags but Jose is not helping either if that's what occurred.

All I have done is watch that video and IMO it is point 2 that is happening. I'm not condoning it, I am not blaming him which seems to be getting said.

All this I am blaming him is a pile of dross.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Anyone else seen the other video? Jose says something about a kit kat, They then tell Jose he’s a “kit-kat” and asks if he’d “melt.”

That's so cringey Check out @hibernian_news’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/hibernian_news/status/985112955418284034?s=08

[Sauzee16]

That's so cringey Check out @hibernian_news’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/hibernian_news/status/985112955418284034?s=08

Cringey is the correct word and you have to actually feel sorry for people getting caught acting like that 20 years ago. Robertson should know better though it’s not as if he was a silly wee laddie.

[Keith_M]

Ah. Does that mean it's acceptable? :confused:


No, just that it maybe suggests it's not as serious as some might think. What offends one person doesn't necessarily offend somebody else to the same level, or that the context of when, how and between whom it's said also comes into play.


For example, I might greet my missus with "how's it gaun, ya fat bitch". That doesn't mean I hate all women, or would even think of saying it to them.

[lapsedhibee]

Steady.

Why assume that ?
Just joining in :greengrin

Genuinely always thought that was an offensive way to speak about a gay male, but not sure now you've shared that. Perhaps only offensive if used by someone outwith the group being described, a bit like a word beginning with N. I dunno!

[SRHibs]

Genuinely always thought that was an offensive way to speak about a gay male, but not sure now you've shared that. Perhaps only offensive if used by someone outwith the group being described, a bit like a word beginning with N. I dunno!

I think to imply someone is less of a man because they are gay is most certainly offensive.

[lapsedhibee]

I think to imply someone is less of a man because they are gay is most certainly offensive.

Yet not apparently used in a derogatory way by SG's colleague. Indeed quite the reverse. Minefield!

[SRHibs]

Yet not apparently used in a derogatory way by SG's colleague. Indeed quite the reverse. Minefield!

Yeah I missed your fair comparison to the N word (without the hard R). I just avoid the use of anything possibly offensive now.

[CathroMustStay]

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video

Imagine actually typing that out and thinking it was remotely acceptable.

FFS

[Captain Trips]

Jose is IMO at as much fault as everyone else in that video

Imagine actually typing that out and thinking it was remotely acceptable.

FFS
Are you just taking bits out to suit eh? If Jose is laughing at that and finding it funny how does that help Racism eh? Please tell me? What if off the tape he was saying stuff eh? Don't try and just quote sections of stuff without context. If he is laughing along as finding it funny how us that OK? Please tell me?

Again you have decided he isn't finding it funny and just going along with it. What if he is also finding the banter funny please tell me what you think of him if that was case as it appears on face value on tape?

Missing the point on purpose or something?

[Beefster]

Correct however people on here have decided that Jose was only going along with it as he was surrounded by white team mates or felt best just to go along with it. Maybe that's how they would react how the hell does anyone on here know how he felt about it? because it bothers you it simply had to be the same for him? You have no idea his relationship with those players and what they say to each other daily. None of it is acceptable then or now but I am not going to start getting pissed off about if the person on the other end of it isn't arsed about it.

1. If Jose is indeed only going along as didn't feel he could say anything then yes 100% that isn't on and he is being victimised. The players are bawbags.

2. If the other option and that is Jose is not bothered by it and did find it funny then that for me isn't the right attitude to stamp this out either. The players are still bawbags but Jose is not helping either if that's what occurred.

All I have done is watch that video and IMO it is point 2 that is happening. I'm not condoning it, I am not blaming him which seems to be getting said.

All this I am blaming him is a pile of dross.

You’re talking pish again but being quite ironic with it. The idea you are talking about was put forward as a possibility in response to your assertion that Quitongo wasn’t bothered by the song.

By the way, as soon as you posted that Quitongo was “at as much fault as anyone else in the video”, you were apportioning blame to him. That’s a fact.

That’s, at least, twice now that you’ve played the victim in this thread. Again, supremely ironic.

[SRHibs]

Are you just taking bits out to suit eh? If Jose is laughing at that and finding it funny how does that help Racism eh? Please tell me? What if off the tape he was saying stuff eh? Don't try and just quote sections of stuff without context. If he is laughing along as finding it funny how us that OK? Please tell me?

Again you have decided he isn't finding it funny and just going along with it. What if he is also finding the banter funny please tell me what you think of him if that was case as it appears on face value on tape?

Missing the point on purpose or something?

Jesus.

A black man making light of being racially abused is not responsible for perpetuating racism. People laugh things off, generally as a coping mechanism. Maybe this is what he’s doing here, maybe not. Either way he is in no way at fault IMO.

[660]

Thanks captains tits for enlightening me to the point that only black people have the right to be offended by casual racism. Great point well made.

[lapsedhibee]

You’re talking pish again but being quite ironic with it. The idea you are talking about was put forward as a possibility in response to your assertion that Quitongo wasn’t bothered by the song.

By the way, as soon as you posted that Quitongo was “at as much fault as anyone else in the video”, you were apportioning blame to him. That’s a fact.

That’s, at least, twice now that you’ve played the victim in this thread. Again, supremely ironic.

Irony's at the very heart and soul of this thread. ****ing unbelievable that nobody's mentioned the fact that the initial cheerleading of the heightist abuse directed at the " wee ***** **** " is being carried by Robbo, who's himself a registered dwarf. He is perpetuating the belief that it's ok to pick on shortarses. And he seems to be enjoying himself doing it, though I suspect that's just a coping mechanism.

[Captain Trips]

Thanks captains tits for enlightening me to the point that only black people have the right to be offended by casual racism. Great point well made.


When did I say that, more pish being spouted. I have said several times its offensive to people ffs.

[Captain Trips]

Jesus.

A black man making light of being racially abused is not responsible for perpetuating racism. People laugh things off, generally as a coping mechanism. Maybe this is what he’s doing here, maybe not. Either way he is in no way at fault IMO.

FFS are you serious? What if he isnt making light of it eh? what if he is finding it banter and funny can you not understand that concept? You have decided he is using it as a coping mechanism how the hell do you know what he is thinking eh? So you will just decide his mindset to argue a point then?

I never said he was responsible for anything where are you getting this from? So forget coping mechanisims please tell me what you think if those players are saying tht to him and rather than rightfully say hold on a minute he actually found it funny and was not bothered is that good for racism as well? The players are out of order in first instance for saying and IF he also finds it funny and isnt bothered is that OK?

[SRHibs]

FFS are you serious? What if he isnt making light of it eh? what if he is finding it banter and funny can you not understand that concept? You have decided he is using it as a coping mechanism how the hell do you know what he is thinking eh? So you will just decide his mindset to argue a point then?

I never said he was responsible for anything where are you getting this from? So forget coping mechanisims please tell me what you think if those players are saying tht to him and rather than rightfully say hold on a minute he actually found it funny and was not bothered is that good for racism as well? The players are out of order in first instance for saying and IF he also finds it funny and isnt bothered is that OK?

I haven’t decided anything. I said maybe aye, or maybe naw, but from personal experience of getting bullied/taking abuse, I attempted to respond with laughter despite the comments having an effect on me mentally.

He is being racially abused, joke or not. I really don’t care what his reaction is. It’s a bunch of grown men, and if they think racism is OK because they got a laugh, that doesn’t make Jose guilty of anything, it makes them even bigger idiots.

[Captain Trips]

You’re talking pish again but being quite ironic with it. The idea you are talking about was put forward as a possibility in response to your assertion that Quitongo wasn’t bothered by the song.

By the way, as soon as you posted that Quitongo was “at as much fault as anyone else in the video”, you were apportioning blame to him. That’s a fact.

That’s, at least, twice now that you’ve played the victim in this thread. Again, supremely ironic.

I will assertain that what the video shows unless there are mind readers on here that IMO he isnt bothered by it and he thinks its funny then he is at fault as well. I do not find it a good laugh so I am to assume he doesnt either then? So tell me if Jose stated he found it all a joke and it was funny what would you think of that and of him? Do you think if a player whom is black is laughing about it helpfll if he found it funny?

I am not apportioning blame to him, I am apportioning blame to everyone whom appears to find racisim a laughing matter which one of the people laughing is him along with the rest of them. But we can just go down the well he must be hiding it route as that has to be the only logical response he cant find that funny at all so any other scenario were he might not be arsed cannot be the case at all.

If he genuinely is not bothered by that then that is not a good thing at all and if you cannot see that then thats that. First and foremost the players saying it need to have a word.

[SRHibs]

I will assertain that what the video shows unless there are mind readers on here that IMO he isnt bothered by it and he thinks its funny then he is at fault as well. I do not find it a good laugh so I am to assume he doesnt either then? So tell me if Jose stated he found it all a joke and it was funny what would you think of that and of him? Do you think if a player whom is black is laughing about it helpfll if he found it funny?

I am not apportioning blame to him, I am apportioning blame to everyone whom appears to find racisim a laughing matter which one of the people laughing is him along with the rest of them. But we can just go down the well he must be hiding it route as that has to be the only logical response he cant find that funny at all so any other scenario were he might not be arsed cannot be the case at all.

If he genuinely is not bothered by that then that is not a good thing at all and if you cannot see that then thats that. First and foremost the players saying it need to have a word.

Do you really believe that grown men sees black man laugh at being racially abused then think “ah, racism must be ok then”.?

If he’s not bothered it’s probably more a sad indictment of the normalisation of racism at that time, as opposed to anything he’s to blame for.

[Captain Trips]

I haven’t decided anything. I said maybe aye, or maybe naw, but from personal experience of getting bullied/taking abuse, I attempted to respond with laughter despite the comments having an effect on me mentally.

He is being racially abused, joke or not. I really don’t care what his reaction is. It’s a bunch of grown men, and if they think racism is OK because they got a laugh, that doesn’t make Jose guilty of anything, it makes them even bigger idiots.

So you have also decided he is just coping with it which he may be so what if he is finding it funny what you think of that?

[Captain Trips]

Do you really believe that grown men sees black man laugh at being racially abused then think “ah, racism must be ok then”.?

If he’s not bothered it’s probably more a sad indictment of the normalisation of racism at that time, as opposed to anything he’s to blame for.

That last sentence maybe case but there seems to be a reluctance of the possibilty he is not bothered and found it funny and if so what are your thoughts.

[SRHibs]

So you have also decided he is just coping with it which he may be so what if he is finding it funny what you think of that?

I haven’t decided that. Are you just cherry picking parts of posts intentionally?

If he finds it funny then good on him for not taking it to heart. If the players see this as him condoning it, in turn making casual racism OK, then they’re complete reprobates.

[Just Alf]

Fed up reading this thread, so not sure where it ends up but I've done diversity training and it's really clear, bigotry is bigotry regardless of whether the person on the sharp end is capable or otherwise of standing up to it.



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Beefster]

I am not apportioning blame to him, I am apportioning blame to everyone whom appears to find racisim a laughing matter which one of the people laughing is him along with the rest of them.

So you’re not apportioning blame to him, you’re just apportioning blame to a group including him?

Right you are.

[Captain Trips]

So you’re not apportioning blame to him, you’re just apportioning blame to a group including him?

Right you are.

Yes if he genuinely finds racism funny I am yes. What should I think of somebody thinking laughing at racism and homesexuality is funny?

[Pete]

Time to make like Trump and blast this thread.

[Wee Effen Bee]

Jesus Christ, what a shocking thread. I’ve heard all these excuses for racism/homophobia/xenophobia etc. before and it’s quite sad people still believe it’s OK. In the ‘old days’ this was all acceptable to many folk but still NOT to everyone. It’s only when the minority began speaking up for those who were feeling the brunt of the ‘banter’ that it became evident the gays/blacks/Asian etc. kept quiet and even joined in to make them feel more accepted. If they had spoken up years ago, they wouldn’t have had the network of support which is around today. They would have been more isolated! ‘Minor’ banter allows the real racists to flourish! The thing is, I don’t think these Hertz players need to be dragged over the coals for something 20 years ago - they probably regret it already, which means, we as a society have moved on and people have changed their mindset for the better!

[Captain Trips]

Why is he the only person who is able to find it offensive?

The song's a disgrace.

Where do I say you can't be offended? Why you stating the songs a disgrace? Do you think I need told that.

[RyeSloan]

Sheesh some debate this thread!

Anyway my tuppence is that the first video could be dismissed as banter and Jose appears to take it at a laugh.

The second video though is much easier identified as targeted racial abuse. Late 90’s or not slagging him off by using the terms kit kat and asking if he’ll melt were simply not acceptable then as much as they are unacceptable now. Anyone using those terms then would know exactly what they were doing.

On balance then you can probably assume there was quite a bit of this going on at the time and it’s a very interesting echo of much more recent claims by a Hearts player. Claims in fact that were rather too easily swept under the carpet by Levein playing the dumb card.

[Libby Hibby]

Racism is not about whether the individual it is directed to feels offended or not by the abuse.

Racism is where abuse or discrimination is directed to someone of a different race.

The video of the triumphant players singing the song to Jose is 100% racist. Unfortunately, there is no argument against it. IMO.

[Captain Trips]

I haven’t decided that. Are you just cherry picking parts of posts intentionally?

If he finds it funny then good on him for not taking it to heart. If the players see this as him condoning it, in turn making casual racism OK, then they’re complete reprobates.

So going by that it is "good on him" if thinks racism and homophobic chanting is genuinely funny? We are not talking about nervous laughing we are not talking about coping we are talking actually finding it all funny banter.

So that is why I am critical of him in his part if what I believe is case. The players singing it are a disgrace of course but I would be very disappointed if Jose felt it was a laughing matter which IMO the video on the surface shows. If it comes out Jose was offended and laughed out of getting along then absolutely I feel 100% for him but if he found it a good laugh then sorry that does not help the issues of racism and homosexuality in life or in game.

If a poster came on here and said they found the video funny would you think good on them?

[Scouse Hibee]

So going by that it is "good on him" if thinks racism and homophobic chanting is genuinely funny? We are not talking about nervous laughing we are not talking about coping we are talking actually finding it all funny banter.

So that is why I am critical of him in his part if what I believe is case. The players singing it are a disgrace of course but I would be very disappointed if Jose felt it was a laughing matter which IMO the video on the surface shows. If it comes out Jose was offended and laughed out of getting along then absolutely I feel 100% for him but if he found it a good laugh then sorry that does not help the issues of racism and homosexuality in life or in game.

If a poster came on here and said they found the video funny would you think good on them?

Have you ever been called something that was intended to offend you but didn't so you laughed it off?

[SRHibs]

So going by that it is "good on him" if thinks racism and homophobic chanting is genuinely funny? We are not talking about nervous laughing we are not talking about coping we are talking actually finding it all funny banter.

So that is why I am critical of him in his part if what I believe is case. The players singing it are a disgrace of course but I would be very disappointed if Jose felt it was a laughing matter which IMO the video on the surface shows. If it comes out Jose was offended and laughed out of getting along then absolutely I feel 100% for him but if he found it a good laugh then sorry that does not help the issues of racism and homosexuality in life or in game.

If a poster came on here and said they found the video funny would you think good on them?

I just don’t understand why you’re pushing this narrative so vehemently.

We are just going around in circles here anyway. Let’s just agree to massively disagree.

[SRHibs]

Have you ever been called something that was intended to offend you but didn't so you laughed it off?

Yeah, I laughed it off and now that person is the leader of Britain First. Sorry!

[Captain Trips]

Have you ever been called something that was intended to offend you but didn't so you laughed it off?

Scouse are you not understanding? I am suggesting he isn't laughing it off but did find it funny that is actually a possibility. I have said plenty of times if it is nervous or laughing it off then yeah I certainly feel for him.

[Scouse Hibee]

Scouse are you not understanding? I am suggesting he isn't laughing it off but did find it funny that is actually a possibility. I have said plenty of times if it is nervous or laughing it off then yeah I certainly feel for him.

No, I have tried to follow but have lost the plot.

[hibsboy69]

There is another video on Twitter tonight.

Jose Quitongo says "Have a break, have a Kit Kat"

A Hearts player then mockingly says "You're the colour of a F&cking Kit Kat"

Another one says "Will you melt Jose"

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/985112955418284034



Oh dear :rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

There is another video on Twitter tonight.

Jose Quitongo says "Have a break, have a Kit Kat"

A Hearts player then mockingly says "You're the colour of a F&cking Kit Kat"

Another one says "Will you melt Jose"

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/985112955418284034



Oh dear :rolleyes:

Who is it saying and filming that? The last time I heard talk like that was in a primary school playground circa 1980. Absolutely pathetic.

[McSwanky]

Fed up reading this thread, so not sure where it ends up but I've done diversity training and it's really clear, bigotry is bigotry regardless of whether the person on the sharp end is capable or otherwise of standing up to it.

Very nicely and succinctly put. Don't think any reasonable person can argue with that.

[Steve-O]

This forced outrage because it's Hearts is a bit much, isn't it.

Taken at face value, this is shocking behaviour and in a normal context, you wouldn't accept your pal talking like that in casual discourse.

In reality, however, this is a bus of team mates after a game, being a bunch of dicks to each other and singing about some token member of the group for a laugh.

Who here that is "disgusted" has never said something in a group of mates for shock value? If you have, it wasn't vindictive, was it? They're smiling, nobody is kicking off. Imagine someone films that, yep, out of context you're ****ed.

Disclaimer: **** the Hearts

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I have never called any black friend a “wee black poof”, nor talked about someone being the colour of a Kit-Kat and melting as they say in the other video that’s now appeared.

Ok, it’s hardly the next Rodney King video, but it’s really quite embarrassing stuff.

[Lendo]

What is confusing me is all of the "it was 20 years ago" or "it was a different time back then".

This was 1998!!!! I could MAYBE excuse the video if it was from the 50's or 60's.

[Captain Trips]

What is confusing me is all of the "it was 20 years ago" or "it was a different time back then".

This was 1998!!!! I could MAYBE excuse the video if it was from the 50's or 60's.

As I said the Kit Kat stuff was primary 3 banter by kids who didn't know any different and was chuckled at. My school was a normal girls boys mixed ethnic and there were not as many different races at school then.

1998 the world had moved on a hell of a lot further schools with far more different races in attendance. For adults let's not forget adults to be engaged in this sort of "banter" is extremely sad.

Anyone know who is saying the stuff/filming.

[wpj]

Playing the victims over the road, amidst the usual drivel was this wee gem

"They see that we are building our infrastructure in such a way that can allow us to increase our revenue by millions each season. When that is in full swing we will be more of a threat for trophies and league placings. The time to attack us is when we are in the middle of the building process"

[RyeSloan]

Playing the victims over the road, amidst the usual drivel was this wee gem

"They see that we are building our infrastructure in such a way that can allow us to increase our revenue by millions each season. When that is in full swing we will be more of a threat for trophies and league placings. The time to attack us is when we are in the middle of the building process"

Kwality!

Millions each season? That’s a lot of conferences to hold [emoji23]

[Danderhall Hibs]

Kwality!

Millions each season? That’s a lot of conferences to hold [emoji23]

Maybe the Ku Klux Klan are looking for a regular booking for committee meetings?

[lapsedhibee]

"They see that we are building our infrastructure in such a way that can allow us to increase our revenue by millions each season. When that is in full swing we will be more of a threat for trophies and league placings. The time to attack us is when we are in the middle of the building process"

That's basically any time then.