Ten draws

[Stevie Reid]

Now I wish to state from the off that this is not in any way a critical thread - if anyone pays the slightest bit of attention to my posts on here, they'll know that I couldn't be more behind NL and the team, and spend most of my time defending the team and the manager. Given how amazing our season has been thus far - 50% win ratio and only 6 defeats from 32 SPL games - I thought it would be interesting to look back over the ten draws we have had:

Dundee 1-1 Hibs

Lost an early goal to an incorrect penalty decision, and battered them for the remainder of the game, missing some real gilt edged chances. Should have won


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Seems to have been a fair result by all accounts.


Hibs 2-2 Motherwell

Disappointing to throw away a two goal lead but Motherwell were very impressive and we were hanging on towards the end. Fair result.


Celtic 2-2 Hibs

Great performance and a wonder save from Craig Gordon prevented us from scoring again. Could've been a win, but a point at Celtic Park is rarely a disappointing result.


Hamilton 1-1 Hibs

The better team and Bartley clearly fouled in the lead up to Hamilton's equaliser. Should have won.


Hibs 2-2 Celtic

Came so close to snatching it at the end after a brilliant comeback, but couldn't say we were hard done by with a point.


Hearts 0-0 Hibs

We'll never know for sure, but we were definitely the better team in the first half in which Hearts were awful, and were denied that early goal. Could easily have been a win.


Hibs 1-1 Killie

Dominated after the loss of the early goal. Should've won.


Killie 2-2 Hibs

Despite Killie being excellent and dominating for long spells after we went 2-0 up, the fact remains that we were defending well until that dreadful penalty decision went against us. Can be argued as a good point due to Killie's excellent form, but I'm saying should've won due to the injustice.


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Definitely a good point after the early red card. Was like the Alamo at times in the second half, and definitely rode our luck to get the point.


Overall, there are definitely some good points in there - however, if you were to add in the extra two points from games that we clearly dominated and/or were denied by a bad decision, that's another ten points. That would have us six clear in second, and four points behind Celtic with only six games left.

All ifs, buts and maybes of course - just thought it was an interesting exercise to see where we could potentially be headed with this manager and this team.

Very exciting times.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Now I wish to state from the off that this is not in any way a critical thread - if anyone pays the slightest bit of attention to my posts on here, they'll know that I couldn't be more behind NL and the team, and spend most of my time defending the team and the manager. Given how amazing our season has been thus far - 50% win ratio and only 6 defeats from 32 SPL games - I thought it would be interesting to look back over the ten draws we have had:

Dundee 1-1 Hibs

Lost an early goal to an incorrect penalty decision, and battered them for the remainder of the game, missing some real gilt edged chances. Should have won


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Seems to have been a fair result by all accounts.


Hibs 2-2 Motherwell

Disappointing to throw away a two goal lead but Motherwell were very impressive and we were hanging on towards the end. Fair result.


Celtic 2-2 Hibs

Great performance and a wonder save from Craig Gordon prevented us from scoring again. Could've been a win, but a point at Celtic Park is rarely a disappointing result.


Hamilton 1-1 Hibs

The better team and Bartley clearly fouled in the lead up to Hamilton's equaliser. Should have won.


Hibs 2-2 Celtic

Came so close to snatching it at the end after a brilliant comeback, but couldn't say we were hard done by with a point.


Hearts 0-0 Hibs

We'll never know for sure, but we were definitely the better team in the first half in which Hearts were awful, and were denied that early goal. Could easily have been a win.


Hibs 1-1 Killie

Dominated after the loss of the early goal. Should've won.


Killie 2-2 Hibs

Despite Killie being excellent and dominating for long spells after we went 2-0 up, the fact remains that we were defending well until that dreadful penalty decision went against us. Can be argued as a good point due to Killie's excellent form, but I'm saying should've won due to the injustice.


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Definitely a good point after the early red card. Was like the Alamo at times in the second half, and definitely rode our luck to get the point.


Overall, there are definitely some good points in there - however, if you were to add in the extra two points from games that we clearly dominated and/or were denied by a bad decision, that's another ten points. That would have us six clear in second, and four points behind Celtic with only six games left.

All ifs, buts and maybes of course - just thought it was an interesting exercise to see where we could potentially be headed with this manager and this team.

Very exciting times.

The 1-1 st Johnstone game early in the season we definitely could’ve won. We weren’t great for 30 minutes but then battered them for an hour.


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[Stevie Reid]

The 1-1 st Johnstone game early in the season we definitely could’ve won. We weren’t great for 30 minutes but then battered them for an hour.


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Fair dos Callum, I wasn't there and was just going by the match reports and NL's post match comments.

[Nicho87]

All ifs and buts. 100% we are not far away from second. The handball for the sevco Easter road game could have got us an extra point. The ghost goal at tynie a further two are the ones that rage me most. Overall great season and great to be back where we rightfully belong. I pray Lennon doesn't get fed up or poached.

He has to be given some cash to reinvest when McGinn does go. Failure to do so may show lack of ambition by the board.

[Callum_62]

Im sure the teams above us could make similar claims

Im still no sure how we didnt win that game at Dens tho!


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[Stevie Reid]

Im sure the teams above us could make similar claims

Im still no sure how we didnt win that game at Dens tho!


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Fair point - and as I said, it was just a wee theoretical exercise.

[NAE NOOKIE]

All ifs and buts. 100% we are not far away from second. The handball for the sevco Easter road game could have got us an extra point. The ghost goal at tynie a further two are the ones that rage me most. Overall great season and great to be back where we rightfully belong. I pray Lennon doesn't get fed up or poached.

He has to be given some cash to reinvest when McGinn does go. Failure to do so may show lack of ambition by the board.

Sod getting a point from the Sevco game ..... I doubt we have dominated a game against them so comprehensively in the last 30 years without winning it, it should have been three points that night never mind one.

[Stevie Reid]

Another point that could be made is that sometimes find that one of the teams in 3rd/4th in the league have had a few things go in their favour that season - things like very few injury problems or suspensions, possibly perceived to have ridden their luck quite a bit, and maybe had a few big decisions go in their favour.

Absolutely none of those things apply to us at all. We are where we are because we are a very good side.

[we are hibs]

we'd have won the game away to Dundee if it had been anyone but Marvin Bartley going through one on one

[Pretty Boy]

The Hamilton draw was the one that left a lot of people at Hibs the most frustrated, performance and result.

[LaMotta]

we'd have won the game away to Dundee if it had been anyone but Marvin Bartley going through one on one

or Barker - he had an even easier one on one:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Another thing to remember is that under a different manager we could have lost those games.

[Stevie Reid]

Another thing to remember is that under a different manager we could have lost those games.

Undoubtedly - we went behind in five of them.

[erin go bragh]

All ifs and buts. 100% we are not far away from second. The handball for the sevco Easter road game could have got us an extra point. The ghost goal at tynie a further two are the ones that rage me most. Overall great season and great to be back where we rightfully belong. I pray Lennon doesn't get fed up or poached.

He has to be given some cash to reinvest when McGinn does go. Failure to do so may show lack of ambition by the board.
Nah bud . They draws are without the 2-1 robbery at ER against sevco .
We could have been sitting about 5pts clear of Celtic:)
Terrible decisions alone has cost us about 6 to 9pts .

[Hibee Mac]

You know, a mate of mine who is a fan of The Rangers was telling me a few months back how many points had been stolen from them by bad decisions this season and that they should have X amount of points from silly draws.

Basically my point is every team says the same thing, at the end of the day we drew the games. Yes we may have 10 more points but Aberdeen and The Rangers have probably had just as many silly draws.

[Stevie Reid]

You know, a mate of mine who is a fan of The Rangers was telling me a few months back how many points had been stolen from them by bad decisions this season and that they should have X amount of points from silly draws.

Basically my point is every team says the same thing, at the end of the day we drew the games. Yes we may have 10 more points but Aberdeen and The Rangers have probably had just as many silly draws.

I wouldn't disagree - and we were also done a massive favour with Partick's disallowed goal on Saturday. Couldn't see us getting back in it if that had stood.

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make, if any, is that the momentum that we have built up is great - to have won half of our league games, only lost 6, and be able to stake a claim that we were hard done by not to win in half of our draws (and only really say that we were maybe a bit lucky not to lose one of them), just further exemplifies how good we are right now.

[greenlex]

Im sure the teams above us could make similar claims

Im still no sure how we didnt win that game at Dens tho!


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Same with Rangers at ER. Even Murray said he wasn’t sure how they got away with three points.

[Bob1875]

Can I just pick up on your comments on the last 2-2 game against Killie. You listed that as should have won? We were absolutely battered in the 2nd half! Really badly! That was defo a point gained.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Can I just pick up on your comments on the last 2-2 game against Killie. You listed that as should have won? We were absolutely battered in the 2nd half! Really badly! That was defo a point gained.
No offence intended but this attitude that exists among football fans and the media that suggests the team who finishes stronger somehow deserved more is one of the things I hate most in football.

They were the better side in the second half but why has there been such a desire to discount the fact that we blew them away in the first half and that they were lucky to even have something to play for after half time. If Kamberi scored right on the whistle we would have been 3-0 up and there would have been no complaints because we were the better team in the first half.

They came out and had an excellent second half but still had to rely on a dodgy penalty to gain a point. Just because they had the better of the 2nd half doesn’t mean they had the better of the 90 mins. A draw was probably a fair result in the end.

In fact, I’m convinced that if you didn’t know any better and you watched each half the opposite way round, all the chat would be about how Kilmarnock were lucky to escape with a point

[Bob1875]

No offence intended but this attitude that exists among football fans and the media that suggests the team who finishes stronger somehow deserved more is one of the things I hate most in football.

They were the better side in the second half but why has there been such a desire to discount the fact that we blew them away in the first half and that they were lucky to even have something to play for after half time. If Kamberi scored right on the whistle we would have been 3-0 up and there would have been no complaints because we were the better team in the first half.

They came out and had an excellent second half but still had to rely on a dodgy penalty to gain a point. Just because they had the better of the 2nd half doesn’t mean they had the better of the 90 mins. A draw was probably a fair result in the end.

In fact, I’m convinced that if you didn’t know any better and you watched each half the opposite way round, all the chat would be about how Kilmarnock were lucky to escape with a point


I’ll not quote the stats from the game but go and have a look at them. We were fortunate with a draw IMO. The stats back this opinion up.

[SRHibs]

I’ll not quote the stats from the game but go and have a look at them. We were fortunate with a draw IMO. The stats back this opinion up.

Agreed. Killie have been great against us this season and IMO are unlucky to have come away with so little. Even the 3-0 at Rugby Park had a strong showing by them. No complaints here though!

[My_Wife_Camille]

Im sure the teams above us could make similar claims

Im still no sure how we didnt win that game at Dens tho!


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This is true but a better way to use the info is to compare it to past Hibs teams rather than the teams above us just now .

For example, we drew 0-0 with Hearts and 2-2 with Dundee Utd in 2012/13 but we had a goal wrong disallowed in one and a penalty wrongly given against us in the other. If those calls had been called correctly we would have had 4 more points and snuck into the top 6 but I think in reality that would have just papered over the cracks as we really weren’t great that year. Likewise the Forster header at Tynecastle May have saved us from relegation but again it would have only papered over the glaring cracks that we were an awful team with an awful manager.

This year, despite these decisions and games going against us we still find ourselves challenging for 2nd spot. If they had gone our way they wouldn’t have just been papering over cracks but could have had us right up there not too far off Celtic. That really shows how far we’ve come

[Hibee Mac]

I wouldn't disagree - and we were also done a massive favour with Partick's disallowed goal on Saturday. Couldn't see us getting back in it if that had stood.

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make, if any, is that the momentum that we have built up is great - to have won half of our league games, only lost 6, and be able to stake a claim that we were hard done by not to win in half of our draws (and only really say that we were maybe a bit lucky not to lose one of them), just further exemplifies how good we are right now.

Totally agree with that, we're certainly in a great place at the minute.

[My_Wife_Camille]

I’ll not quote the stats from the game but go and have a look at them. We were fortunate with a draw IMO. The stats back this opinion up.
I was there, I know fine how the game went. I don’t need to look at the stats to know Killie outplayed us in the second half and deserved their point but I stand by the opinion that a lot more credit is given to Killie because they did it in the second half.

Killie are just a better version of Falkirk imo. Lots of early balls into the box and pot shots from around 20/25 yards. It’s a numbers game with them - shoot on sight and one might fly in, the other might hit a hand or go in via deflection. Sure it’s effective for them but a high number of low probability attempts pads the stats out a bit more than a low number of high probability attempts.

Its exactly what happened in the 3-0 game too actually. The only difference is they didn’t get the same slice of luck in that game.

[MWHIBBIES]

we'd have won the game away to Dundee if it had been anyone but Marvin Bartley going through one on oneBarker missed a one on one as well.

[Stevie Reid]

Can I just pick up on your comments on the last 2-2 game against Killie. You listed that as should have won? We were absolutely battered in the 2nd half! Really badly! That was defo a point gained.

It can definitely be argued as a point gained (a point which I did make in my initial summary of it) but the fact remains that we defended well and Rocky made some good saves - our players doing the job they are paid to do.

The person who failed to do his job properly was the referee, and the penalty decision cost us three points. Before the pen Killie needed a peach to score and Rocky had barely made a save - after it goes 2-2 it was relentless pressure, but that comes as a direct result of the terrible decision.

[Speedy]

Can I just pick up on your comments on the last 2-2 game against Killie. You listed that as should have won? We were absolutely battered in the 2nd half! Really badly! That was defo a point gained.

It was definitely a 'should have won'. You should always win from 2-0 up.

Granted they were the better team from about 30 minutes but we should've made a change at half time (Bartley on) to keep on top of the game.

[yonder1875]

I went to the St Johnstone away 1-1 game and felt we dominated them, especially the second half.

John McGinn was superb that day.

[MacGruber]

There's also games we've lost where we have been unlucky.

However, for balance, would need to think of times we have won but we're lucky to get 3 points.

Overall we've done well especially having just gone up.

[Keith_M]

TBF, we rode our luck a bit in the first Ibrox game. It was one of the few matches when I've seen wrong decisions actually go in our favour.


We have also had a couple of games where we should have had a red card; away to Dundee (finger up the...) and Stokes' 'ball grabbing' incident at ER.

[SChibs]

TBF, we rode our luck a bit in the first Ibrox game. It was one of the few matches when I've seen wrong decisions actually go in our favour.


We have also had a couple of games where we should have had a red card; away to Dundee (finger up the...) and Stokes' 'ball grabbing' incident at ER.

Don't see the Dundee incident being a red card. Just a bit of a laugh from bartley doubt he was genuinely trying to hurt the guy? Just at the wind up

[Squirrel 1875]

Now I wish to state from the off that this is not in any way a critical thread - if anyone pays the slightest bit of attention to my posts on here, they'll know that I couldn't be more behind NL and the team, and spend most of my time defending the team and the manager. Given how amazing our season has been thus far - 50% win ratio and only 6 defeats from 32 SPL games - I thought it would be interesting to look back over the ten draws we have had:

Dundee 1-1 Hibs

Lost an early goal to an incorrect penalty decision, and battered them for the remainder of the game, missing some real gilt edged chances. Should have won


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Seems to have been a fair result by all accounts.


Hibs 2-2 Motherwell

Disappointing to throw away a two goal lead but Motherwell were very impressive and we were hanging on towards the end. Fair result.


Celtic 2-2 Hibs

Great performance and a wonder save from Craig Gordon prevented us from scoring again. Could've been a win, but a point at Celtic Park is rarely a disappointing result.


Hamilton 1-1 Hibs

The better team and Bartley clearly fouled in the lead up to Hamilton's equaliser. Should have won.


Hibs 2-2 Celtic

Came so close to snatching it at the end after a brilliant comeback, but couldn't say we were hard done by with a point.


Hearts 0-0 Hibs

We'll never know for sure, but we were definitely the better team in the first half in which Hearts were awful, and were denied that early goal. Could easily have been a win.


Hibs 1-1 Killie

Dominated after the loss of the early goal. Should've won.


Killie 2-2 Hibs

Despite Killie being excellent and dominating for long spells after we went 2-0 up, the fact remains that we were defending well until that dreadful penalty decision went against us. Can be argued as a good point due to Killie's excellent form, but I'm saying should've won due to the injustice.


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Definitely a good point after the early red card. Was like the Alamo at times in the second half, and definitely rode our luck to get the point.


Overall, there are definitely some good points in there - however, if you were to add in the extra two points from games that we clearly dominated and/or were denied by a bad decision, that's another ten points. That would have us six clear in second, and four points behind Celtic with only six games left.

All ifs, buts and maybes of course - just thought it was an interesting exercise to see where we could potentially be headed with this manager and this team.

Very exciting times.

Agree with the majority of this, although have to say we have had numerous games where we have ridden our luck in getting a win. Since signing Scott Allan we have been a joy to watch.

[WhileTheChief..]

The players will be well aware of what could have been.

Genuine title challengers next season.

[IGRIGI]

Have to factor in the amount of games we would've lost in previous seasons in which we've ground out wins.

[Stevie Reid]

Now I wish to state from the off that this is not in any way a critical thread - if anyone pays the slightest bit of attention to my posts on here, they'll know that I couldn't be more behind NL and the team, and spend most of my time defending the team and the manager. Given how amazing our season has been thus far - 50% win ratio and only 6 defeats from 32 SPL games - I thought it would be interesting to look back over the ten draws we have had:

Dundee 1-1 Hibs

Lost an early goal to an incorrect penalty decision, and battered them for the remainder of the game, missing some real gilt edged chances. Should have won


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Seems to have been a fair result by all accounts.


Hibs 2-2 Motherwell

Disappointing to throw away a two goal lead but Motherwell were very impressive and we were hanging on towards the end. Fair result.


Celtic 2-2 Hibs

Great performance and a wonder save from Craig Gordon prevented us from scoring again. Could've been a win, but a point at Celtic Park is rarely a disappointing result.


Hamilton 1-1 Hibs

The better team and Bartley clearly fouled in the lead up to Hamilton's equaliser. Should have won.


Hibs 2-2 Celtic

Came so close to snatching it at the end after a brilliant comeback, but couldn't say we were hard done by with a point.


Hearts 0-0 Hibs

We'll never know for sure, but we were definitely the better team in the first half in which Hearts were awful, and were denied that early goal. Could easily have been a win.


Hibs 1-1 Killie

Dominated after the loss of the early goal. Should've won.


Killie 2-2 Hibs

Despite Killie being excellent and dominating for long spells after we went 2-0 up, the fact remains that we were defending well until that dreadful penalty decision went against us. Can be argued as a good point due to Killie's excellent form, but I'm saying should've won due to the injustice.


St. Johnstone 1-1 Hibs

Definitely a good point after the early red card. Was like the Alamo at times in the second half, and definitely rode our luck to get the point.


Overall, there are definitely some good points in there - however, if you were to add in the extra two points from games that we clearly dominated and/or were denied by a bad decision, that's another ten points. That would have us six clear in second, and four points behind Celtic with only six games left.

All ifs, buts and maybes of course - just thought it was an interesting exercise to see where we could potentially be headed with this manager and this team.

Very exciting times.

Sounds like another for the 'should've won' category!

[Spike Mandela]

Treating the 5 games after the split as their own entity the simple fact is we now need wins. Draws are simply no longer good enough no matter the reason or bad luck..

Our main competitors for 2nd are all playing in next week’s semis which could work to our advantage, might not. Hopefully our injured players will be back in contention and Lennon has them all fired up to go for wins in every game.

Fingers crossed the fixture list is kind to us as well.

[GreenCastle]

I went to the St Johnstone away 1-1 game and felt we dominated them, especially the second half.

John McGinn was superb that day.

Agreed - came away that day thinking 2 points dropped.

All Hibs after the goal.

[GreenCastle]

The players will be well aware of what could have been.

Genuine title challengers next season.

Crazy to think we aren’t million miles away considering the teams above us spending power.

Celtic won more as they simply have better - more consistent players and better strikers who kill games off.

We have some very decent Scottish League players but going to be interesting to see how we build on this season.

[The Harp Awakes]

I went to the St Johnstone away 1-1 game and felt we dominated them, especially the second half.

John McGinn was superb that day.

Agreed. Thhat was one of the biggest doings you'll ever see a home team receive. How it finished 1-1 is a mystery. I think there were 3 or 4 different Saints players yellow carded for fouls on McGinn.

[Stevie Reid]

Treating the 5 games after the split as their own entity the simple fact is we now need wins. Draws are simply no longer good enough no matter the reason or bad luck..

Our main competitors for 2nd are all playing in next week’s semis which could work to our advantage, might not. Hopefully our injured players will be back in contention and Lennon has them all fired up to go for wins in every game.

Fingers crossed the fixture list is kind to us as well.

Very true.