How is this happening?

[Pretty Boy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43611527

In a developed European country in 2018 how is this allowed to happen? It doesn't read like a tiny minority either, it appears in certain areas this is a sizable number of children and families. I've had to tighten the belt in the last few months with an extra member to my family and a reduction in our household income but I'm thankfully a long way from skipping meals to make ends meet.

It's really a disgrace that families are living in such poverty. The government response of 'measures are in place to tackle poverty' is pitiful.

[hibsbollah]

It's what politics should be all about. If you think the situation is unacceptable, go and vote for a party who you think has the best policies to deal with grinding poverty and an increasing gap between rich and poor. Sadly, most of the politics we consume is empty trivia.

[speedy_gonzales]

Read that article myself and felt sick when reading the headteachers personal testaments to the poverty they encounter,,,, keeping schools open when others were having snow days just so kids could be fed???
Unfortunately, I can't see the answer being political and it's not a case of throwing money at it.
Many 'poor'(horrible phrase) people I know have trouble managing their household finances, either through horrific debt incurred earlier in life or because they simply don't have the tools/skills/resources available to them that others might have.
At this point I could wax lyrical about how I have members of my family that live below the (statistical) poverty line and how they do or do not manage but it would only come across as condescending and and unhelpful, that's if I haven't already done so,,,,

Truly shameful situation though!

[Pretty Boy]

Read that article myself and felt sick when reading the headteachers personal testaments to the poverty they encounter,,,, keeping schools open when others were having snow days just so kids could be fed???
Unfortunately, I can't see the answer being political and it's not a case of throwing money at it.
Many 'poor'(horrible phrase) people I know have trouble managing their household finances, either through horrific debt incurred earlier in life or because they simply don't have the tools/skills/resources available to them that others might have.
At this point I could wax lyrical about how I have members of my family that live below the (statistical) poverty line and how they do or do not manage but it would only come across as condescending and and unhelpful, that's if I haven't already done so,,,,

Truly shameful situation though!

I don't think it's condescending.

There are some basic skills that have been lost through the generations. I can make a pot of soup for a couple of pound to feed 6-8 people, I kmow for a fact my partner can't. If it doesn't come out a packet she's lost. I've often wondered if some budget recipe cards and beginners cooking skill classes could be incorporated into food banks as a short term measure?

That's not a dig at individual families, we've been sold the myth of processed and prepared food for so long and the work/life balance has tipped in such a way that the time and skills to cook from scratch were always going to suffer for some.

[GlesgaeHibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43611527

In a developed European country in 2018 how is this allowed to happen? It doesn't read like a tiny minority either, it appears in certain areas this is a sizable number of children and families. I've had to tighten the belt in the last few months with an extra member to my family and a reduction in our household income but I'm thankfully a long way from skipping meals to make ends meet.

It's really a disgrace that families are living in such poverty. The government response of 'measures are in place to tackle poverty' is pitiful.

Sickening, but an unfortunate reality of Tory Britain. Poverty through the roof, NHS decimated, failed austerity project hitting the poor whilst the rich get richer. And to top if off, even taking all that into account, they're ahead in the polls because Labour have a hapless idiot in charge.

[IGRIGI]

Unfortunately in society there is a great number of people who have replaced food with 50 inch plasma TVs and Sky subscriptions in the basic needs section of Maslow's hierarchy.

Just last week I read about a family being kicked out of their flat in Drylaw because they hadn't paid rent, they were trying to build sympathy as 5 flatscreen TVs had been thrown out.

I used to feel sorry for people and blame the government but given the costs to prepare meals like potato soup on bulk I have no sympathy at all.

[Hibrandenburg]

As a kid I would sometimes go the weekend without food. School meals was the only guaranteed food I had. It's heart breaking to think that in 2018 there are still kids going hungry in one of the wealthiest nations on earth but how do you solve it? Some parents are just not equipped mentally to care for their offspring. There are many ways in out society to put food on the table so why is it that some choose not to and how do you change that mindset?

[Hibrandenburg]

Unfortunately in society there is a great number of people who have replaced food with 50 inch plasma TVs and Sky subscriptions in the basic needs section of Maslow's hierarchy.

Just last week I read about a family being kicked out of their flat in Drylaw because they hadn't paid rent, they were trying to build sympathy as 5 flatscreen TVs had been thrown out.

I used to feel sorry for people and blame the government but given the costs to prepare meals like potato soup on bulk I have no sympathy at all.

:agree: I have sympathy for the kids.

[lapsedhibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43611527

Shocking report but what's the second picture in the article meant to illustrate? A child's grey neck? :confused:

[SHODAN]

https://thenextrecession.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/uk-growth-and-wages.png

The UK is the only developed country in the world where growth has increased but wages have decreased.

[Lendo]

The desire by some to push ahead with Brexit regardless of the consequences will only make matters worse. Our economy only recedes further whilst the other 27 nations push on and up.

[johnbc70]

The desire by some to push ahead with Brexit regardless of the consequences will only make matters worse. Our economy only recedes further whilst the other 27 nations push on and up.

I am guessing here but reckon the majority of the families that have the kids in the article will have voted to leave.

Government can help and should help, but people also need to help themselves.

[Hibrandenburg]

I am guessing here but reckon the majority of the families that have the kids in the article will have voted to leave.

Government can help and should help, but people also need to help themselves.

You're a brave man and I was thinking similar but thought better of posting it. :wink:

[RyeSloan]

The desire by some to push ahead with Brexit regardless of the consequences will only make matters worse. Our economy only recedes further whilst the other 27 nations push on and up.

Is there no subject that doesn’t attract an inane Brexit comment?

As others have said the issues in the story are clearly more complex than being caused by GDP growth rates. As it is your comment is factually wrong, have a look at Italy’s GDP growth since 2007 for starters.

As it is GDP is a poor indicator at best for most things...as stated by the very inventor of the metric. Considering it’s limitations and flaws quite why it is used as it is for so many economic arguments is a bit of a mystery.

With regards to the OP I’m at a loss as to why the situation is being described is as bad as it sounds. I’m sure more government assistance may help but the U.K. spends billions upon billions on welfare so it seems almost impossible that parents can’t afford to wash their kids school clothes. After all you only need a sink and a box of Dreft (do they still make that stuff?) to do a quick hand wash. I clearly remember my mum doing that when I was younger when we couldn’t afford to get the twin tub fixed!

That’s not to belittle the problems which I’m sure are many and complex but citing Brexit as some sort of compounder of these issues and then alluding to the fact they are all being sorted in the other 27 countries through their economic growth is simply wrong. This link regarding Romania is just one example: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/child-poverty-in-romania-has-worsened-since-eu-accession-a6756901.html%3famp

[RyeSloan]

The desire by some to push ahead with Brexit regardless of the consequences will only make matters worse. Our economy only recedes further whilst the other 27 nations push on and up.

Is there no subject that doesn’t attract an inane Brexit comment?

As others have said the issues in the story are clearly more complex than being caused by GDP growth rates. As it is your comment is factually wrong, have a look at Italy’s GDP growth since 2007 for starters.

As it is GDP is a poor indicator at best for most things...as stated by the very inventor of the metric. Considering it’s limitations and flaws quite why it is used as it is for so many economic arguments is a bit of a mystery.

With regards to the OP I’m at a loss as to why the situation is being described is as bad as it sounds. I’m sure more government assistance may help but the U.K. spends billions upon billions on welfare so it seems almost impossible that parents can’t afford to wash their kids school clothes. After all you only need a sink and a box of Dreft (do they still make that stuff?) to do a quick hand wash. I clearly remember my mum doing that when I was younger when we couldn’t afford to get the twin tub fixed!

That’s not to belittle the problems which I’m sure are many and complex but citing Brexit as some sort of compounder of these issues and then alluding to the fact they are all being sorted in the other 27 countries through their economic growth is simply wrong. This link regarding Romania is just one example: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/child-poverty-in-romania-has-worsened-since-eu-accession-a6756901.html%3famp

[Colr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43611527

In a developed European country in 2018 how is this allowed to happen? It doesn't read like a tiny minority either, it appears in certain areas this is a sizable number of children and families. I've had to tighten the belt in the last few months with an extra member to my family and a reduction in our household income but I'm thankfully a long way from skipping meals to make ends meet.

It's really a disgrace that families are living in such poverty. The government response of 'measures are in place to tackle poverty' is pitiful.

When you consider how much Gordon Brown and the New Labour government did to address this very issue, it has all been pissed away by the Tories pretty damned quickly!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

When you consider how much Gordon Brown and the New Labour government did to address this very issue, it has all been pissed away by the Tories pretty damned quickly!

While the tories undoubtedly have culpability as the governing party, lets not forget new labour did lots by starting to grow what has become an unsustainsble and dangerous budget deficit.

I find it shocking these thigs happen in this day and age, but at what point does shocking parenting come into it? No government of any persuasion can govern a country of millions in a way that eradicates the effects of terrible parents and individuals.

Im not defending the tories, its a damning story that should not be happening. But im not sure how a national govt can possibly br held responsible for parents not lookinh after their children properly.

[Colr]

While the tories undoubtedly have culpability as the governing party, lets not forget new labour did lots by starting to grow what has become an unsustainsble and dangerous budget deficit.

I find it shocking these thigs happen in this day and age, but at what point does shocking parenting come into it? No government of any persuasion can govern a country of millions in a way that eradicates the effects of terrible parents and individuals.

Im not defending the tories, its a damning story that should not be happening. But im not sure how a national govt can possibly br held responsible for parents not lookinh after their children properly.

The economic crash was caused by the financial instutions (Tories) not Labour.

Labour should have started increasing public spending earlier and more gradually in the 00s but it was the crash that caused the problem.

A lot of that spending did a lot of good.

[johnbc70]

The economic crash was caused by the financial instutions (Tories) not Labour.


I know hibs.net has a tendancy to blame either the Tories, Brexit or Petrie for pretty much everything that is wrong in the world but are you saying the worldwide financial crash which lead to a worldwide recession was caused by the Tories?

If so can you explain the Tories role in the US housing price crash which was one of the main causes of the recession.

[grunt]

The desire by some to push ahead with Brexit regardless of the consequences will only make matters worse. Our economy only recedes further whilst the other 27 nations push on and up.


Is there no subject that doesn’t attract an inane Brexit comment?I don't understand what's going on and why there seems so much child poverty in the UK. But the Government's own forecasts, that it tried to hide, show that in every scenario modelled, people will be worse off due to Brexit. So that won't help to put food on the tables of these children?

Is that an inane Brexit comment?

[RyeSloan]

I don't understand what's going on and why there seems so much child poverty in the UK. But the Government's own forecasts, that it tried to hide, show that in every scenario modelled, people will be worse off due to Brexit. So that won't help to put food on the tables of these children?

Is that an inane Brexit comment?

Pretty much, as I have said before economic forecasts have limited use and that drops to extremely limited use when forecasting 15 years out.

There is also the fact that there is clearly multiple factors at play here and assuming central government largesse is the solution would appear simplistic at best.

Then you could argue that even if there is some negative economic impact that does not have to directly impact everything, there will still be a choice to be made as to where one of the richest countries in the world spends its money.

Then I could come up with other what of scenarios...what if curtailed immigration leads to a shortage of labour at the lower end of the employment scale and pushes up wages for maybe the type of worker that these poor kids are children to? Overall the impact on the economy might be a negative one but for the specific type of worker it may actually be a positive.

Then there is the huge increase (relatively) in the minimum wage that’s currently being rolled out, Brexit won’t reverse that.

So yeah in summary stating Brexit is only going to make things worse and those lucky Europeans will continue to sail off into the distance on a wave of economic growth is a rather odd tangent to take on a domestic issue that probably relates to many localised and societal factors as much as total money spent.

[Sauzee16]

Parents that care about themselves more than their children usually through addiction is the root. Although I think the idea was right at the time a lot of families are now suffering because you don’t get family allowance per child any longer. I go out very early get home very late very rarely go out apart from the football because I chose to have two babies with a third coming and not the other way about. I live with very little money myself now as the other half is stay at home but I don’t really care it’s what you have to do as a parent and for that I can’t understand parents who don’t feel the same.

[grunt]

There is also the fact that there is clearly multiple factors at play here and assuming central government largesse is the solution would appear simplistic at best. I wasn't aware i made any such assumption.



Then you could argue that even if there is some negative economic impact that does not have to directly impact everything, there will still be a choice to be made as to where one of the richest countries in the world spends its money. The point I was trying too make is that there will be less money all round. Less in our pockets, and less taxes to fund benefits.

I can see you don't believe me. Can I suggest we reconvene in 15 years time, at which point you can show me what a success Brexit has been and I'll buy you a drink.

[RyeSloan]

I wasn't aware i made any such assumption.


The point I was trying too make is that there will be less money all round. Less in our pockets, and less taxes to fund benefits.

I can see you don't believe me. Can I suggest we reconvene in 15 years time, at which point you can show me what a success Brexit has been and I'll buy you a drink.


I’ll look forward to it [emoji3] 🤪

[Colr]

I know hibs.net has a tendancy to blame either the Tories, Brexit or Petrie for pretty much everything that is wrong in the world but are you saying the worldwide financial crash which lead to a worldwide recession was caused by the Tories?

If so can you explain the Tories role in the US housing price crash which was one of the main causes of the recession.

Capitalists, then.

[lucky]

Poverty in this country has been caused by our last two governments choosing policies which favoured the rich. They played the working poor against the unemployed and then the unemployed against immigrants leading to Brexit, the introduction of sanctions on benefits (watch “I Daniel Blake” for an insight on this), food banks being acceptable, zero hours contracts and more anti trade Union legislation. Sadly most of our politicians of all shades have been more interested in fighting referendums than fighting poverty.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Poverty in this country has been caused by our last two governments choosing policies which favoured the rich. They played the working poor against the unemployed and then the unemployed against immigrants leading to Brexit, the introduction of sanctions on benefits (watch “I Daniel Blake” for an insight on this), food banks being acceptable, zero hours contracts and more anti trade Union legislation. Sadly most of our politicians of all shades have been more interested in fighting referendums than fighting poverty.

I dont disagree with your setiments, but if you look at the UK it has got much richer over the past two generations. My grandparents, who both worked menial jobs, brought up three boys in slum conditions without an indoor toilet, and yet my gran could rustle up porridge, soup, stew etc and bring up her boys not to be ********s (for the most part!)

Im not saying it woyld be easy, but i find it hard to believe anyone lives in this country in such abject poverty that they cannot afford to feed their children - its not sub-sharan africa FFS.

The govt should of course help people, but im sure we all k ow people who would still be awful parents regsrdless of how muxh their benefits were increased by - and i dont know what a govt can do about that?

I do agree that post industrial decline has a lot of culpability, but again i dont know what can be done about that that would alleviate inter-generational fecklessness and all round ****wittery?

[RyeSloan]

Poverty in this country has been caused by our last two governments choosing policies which favoured the rich. They played the working poor against the unemployed and then the unemployed against immigrants leading to Brexit, the introduction of sanctions on benefits (watch “I Daniel Blake” for an insight on this), food banks being acceptable, zero hours contracts and more anti trade Union legislation. Sadly most of our politicians of all shades have been more interested in fighting referendums than fighting poverty.

This reads as a classic politicians quote.

I’m interested in how the working poor were ‘played’ against the unemployed...in fact I’m interested in what that even means.

[lucky]

This reads as a classic politicians quote.

I’m interested in how the working poor were ‘played’ against the unemployed...in fact I’m interested in what that even means.

I take it that’s not a compliment then :greengrin

George Osborne was widely quoted about workers going to work whilst the unemployed were in their beds. Some daft quote about curtains being shut. The Tories introduced the bedroom tax and used the average wage to justify a cap on benefits and getting lots of coverage in MSM about workers v Shirkers. So in MY opinion they played the working poor against the unemployed.

[Hibrandenburg]

I take it that’s not a compliment then :greengrin

George Osborne was widely quoted about workers going to work whilst the unemployed were in their beds. Some daft quote about curtains being shut. The Tories introduced the bedroom tax and used the average wage to justify a cap on benefits and getting lots of coverage in MSM about workers v Shirkers. So in MY opinion they played the working poor against the unemployed.

Add to that the fact that employers paying wage dumping rates always liked to remind their working poor employees that they were more than welcome to join the ranks of the unemployed should they wish to do so.

[RyeSloan]

I take it that’s not a compliment then :greengrin

George Osborne was widely quoted about workers going to work whilst the unemployed were in their beds. Some daft quote about curtains being shut. The Tories introduced the bedroom tax and used the average wage to justify a cap on benefits and getting lots of coverage in MSM about workers v Shirkers. So in MY opinion they played the working poor against the unemployed.

Ha ha no it wasn’t [emoji57] [emoji2]

Cool thanks for the reply...some memory you have to remember some of that stuff and I’m not entirely sure that it can be put down as the root cause for all poverty in the country. No doubt though that the cap and the bedroom ‘tax’ won’t have helped on that front tho [emoji1303]