San Francisco Homeless

[Sylar]

I've been in San Fran for a week now. It's my fourth time visiting, what is a marvellous city. It's a proper melting pot of cultures, and harbours all sorts of art, culture, cuisine and excellent things to see and do.

I love this city, and I love visiting it. But deary me, the homeless population here is unlike anything I've ever experienced before, and I can see a clear deterioration since my first visit to the city.

The past 2 days, I've walked along Market St: a major thoroughfare in the heart of San Francisco. It's more reminiscent of a third world city than the leading tech, finance and artistic hub of the USA.

I understand that the US defunded the vasy majority of their mental health institutions, and many of those inhabitants have nowhere else to go. And it makes for a horrifically unsettling experience. Homeless people just laying on the sidewalk, uncovered and no protection. People walking around, not mentally present, shouting and bawling at everyone and anyone who passes by. People openly urinating and defacating in the streets. People on the ground utterly drugged up to their eyeballs, with needles often lying beside them. And I know marijuana has now been legalised here, but the overbearing stench of weed that fills that street in particular is just shocking. I passed one person sprawled out, face down at the egde of the pavement - he may well have been dead...who knows.

I was shocked when I first experienced this when I first visited SF in 2010. But fast forward 8 years and it's undeniably FAR worse now, and far worse than anything I've ever witnessed in the UK. Their local and national governments really have thrown these people to their fate - if you're visiting SF, don't venture much further SW on foot than Market and Mission.

[Just Jimmy]

Manchester's homeless problem sounds incredibly similar. I couldn't believe it when I moved here.

It feels like a losing battle for everyone concerned.

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[calumhibee1]

I've been in San Fran for a week now. It's my fourth time visiting, what is a marvellous city. It's a proper melting pot of cultures, and harbours all sorts of art, culture, cuisine and excellent things to see and do.

I love this city, and I love visiting it. But deary me, the homeless population here is unlike anything I've ever experienced before, and I can see a clear deterioration since my first visit to the city.

The past 2 days, I've walked along Market St: a major thoroughfare in the heart of San Francisco. It's more reminiscent of a third world city than the leading tech, finance and artistic hub of the USA.

I understand that the US defunded the vasy majority of their mental health institutions, and many of those inhabitants have nowhere else to go. And it makes for a horrifically unsettling experience. Homeless people just laying on the sidewalk, uncovered and no protection. People walking around, not mentally present, shouting and bawling at everyone and anyone who passes by. People openly urinating and defacating in the streets. People on the ground utterly drugged up to their eyeballs, with needles often lying beside them. And I know marijuana has now been legalised here, but the overbearing stench of weed that fills that street in particular is just shocking. I passed one person sprawled out, face down at the egde of the pavement - he may well have been dead...who knows.

I was shocked when I first experienced this when I first visited SF in 2010. But fast forward 8 years and it's undeniably FAR worse now, and far worse than anything I've ever witnessed in the UK. Their local and national governments really have thrown these people to their fate - if you're visiting SF, don't venture much further SW on foot than Market and Mission.

Always wanted to go to SF but have heard this before. Is it a lot worse than New York? I’ve always noticed a lot of homeless folk there.

[Jack]

I first visited SF in 2003 and have been back 3 times, the last time was last year.

The first time I went I was advised not to wander around SOMA (South of Market). I did a wee bit during the day. It wasn't a friendly place.

I was shocked last year. What was SOMA then had spread and was much worse. Market Street was lined with empty shops most had aggressive panhandlers in the doorways. The street was filthy. Many other areas weren't much better.

For the first time in decades I was concerned for our safety.

Never say never but I doubt I'll be back.

And as if all that wasn't bad enough Ghirardelli no longer make the big ingot slabs of chocolate (about 1kg each), my favourite authentic rustic Chinese cafe has become a chrome shrine and my favourite pub had become a blummin bistro!

[Pretty Boy]

I'm like a broken record but....As long as governments continue to use rising house prices as an argument for the economy being strong with no caveats the worse this problem will get. Rising prices but stagnating ownership rates is not a sign of prosperity for the many. Our whole economic model and measurements of it are based on what is good for the wealthy though.

There are obviously other factors at play with the SF situation but the elephant in the room is that there simply aren't enough suitable homes available to people that need them. Vested personal and politcal interests will ensure that continues as well.

[Bristolhibby]

I've been in San Fran for a week now. It's my fourth time visiting, what is a marvellous city. It's a proper melting pot of cultures, and harbours all sorts of art, culture, cuisine and excellent things to see and do.

I love this city, and I love visiting it. But deary me, the homeless population here is unlike anything I've ever experienced before, and I can see a clear deterioration since my first visit to the city.

The past 2 days, I've walked along Market St: a major thoroughfare in the heart of San Francisco. It's more reminiscent of a third world city than the leading tech, finance and artistic hub of the USA.

I understand that the US defunded the vasy majority of their mental health institutions, and many of those inhabitants have nowhere else to go. And it makes for a horrifically unsettling experience. Homeless people just laying on the sidewalk, uncovered and no protection. People walking around, not mentally present, shouting and bawling at everyone and anyone who passes by. People openly urinating and defacating in the streets. People on the ground utterly drugged up to their eyeballs, with needles often lying beside them. And I know marijuana has now been legalised here, but the overbearing stench of weed that fills that street in particular is just shocking. I passed one person sprawled out, face down at the egde of the pavement - he may well have been dead...who knows.

I was shocked when I first experienced this when I first visited SF in 2010. But fast forward 8 years and it's undeniably FAR worse now, and far worse than anything I've ever witnessed in the UK. Their local and national governments really have thrown these people to their fate - if you're visiting SF, don't venture much further SW on foot than Market and Mission.

Was in SF in 2014, and you are right. The amount of homeless, and not just homeless, but clearly mentally ill people just tossed on the heap was staggering.

J

[hibsbollah]

Sorry to hear that. San Francisco is one of my two favourite US cities, and back in the late eighties I can't recall seeing many homeless at all.

There's maybe a specific local issue at play, but there's also no question that there are more people than ever at the bottom of society. I lived away from Edinburgh for fifteen years, and when I came back suddenly there seemed to be more visible homeless and a Harvey Nicks had been built, (which is a bit of an obvious metaphor for something bigger).

[RyeSloan]

Sorry to hear that. San Francisco is one of my two favourite US cities, and back in the late eighties I can't recall seeing many homeless at all.

There's maybe a specific local issue at play, but there's also no question that there are more people than ever at the bottom of society. I lived away from Edinburgh for fifteen years, and when I came back suddenly there seemed to be more visible homeless and a Harvey Nicks had been built, (which is a bit of an obvious metaphor for something bigger).

I see very little visible homeless in Edinburgh. There’s certainly more organised begging, top spots seem to be manned in shifts, but genuine rough sleepers are pretty rare.

In fact looking at Shelter Scotland stats the homeless numbers are below 1990’s levels and have dramatically reduced on Scotland by almost half over the last 10 years.

[hibsbollah]

I see very little visible homeless in Edinburgh. There’s certainly more organised begging, top spots seem to be manned in shifts, but genuine rough sleepers are pretty rare.

In fact looking at Shelter Scotland stats the homeless numbers are below 1990’s levels and have dramatically reduced on Scotland by almost half over the last 10 years.

Im sceptical about that. Source? In the UK as a whole, there has been a 169% increase in rough sleeping since 2010, eight consecutive yearly rises. That was reported just last month. And that doesn't include 'sofa surfers' who aren't registered as homeless but effectively have nowhere to go.

And anecdotally as far as Edinburgh goes I can tell you in the number of visible homeless in 2010 when I came back dwarfs what there was in 1992. That's just a fact.

[RyeSloan]

Im sceptical about that. Source? In the UK as a whole, there has been a 169% increase in rough sleeping since 2010, eight consecutive yearly rises. That was reported just last month. And that doesn't include 'sofa surfers' who aren't registered as homeless but effectively have nowhere to go.

And anecdotally as far as Edinburgh goes I can tell you in the number of visible homeless in 2010 when I came back dwarfs what there was in 1992. That's just a fact.

Here you go: https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/housing_policy/key_statistics/homelessness_facts_and_research

As for visible homeless I would suggest that it’s an anecdotal observation rather than a fact [emoji57]

[hibsbollah]

Here you go: https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/housing_policy/key_statistics/homelessness_facts_and_research

As for visible homeless I would suggest that it’s an anecdotal observation rather than a fact [emoji57]

That's very interesting, thanks. It does show people declaring themselves homeless has fallen, although as Shelter in Scotland themselves say, 'this is due to the proactive approach taken by local authorities rather than a change to the pressures that result in homelessness'. I did read something about Glasgow policy of finding a house for every homeless person as an official target outcome. Perhaps something Scotland could be proud of.
The UK wide figure is very different.

Oh, and anecdotal observations can also be facts :greengrin

[overdrive]

Always wanted to go to SF but have heard this before. Is it a lot worse than New York? I’ve always noticed a lot of homeless folk there.

It is in a different league to New York both in terms of relative volume (I wouldn’t be surprised if NYC has an absolute bigger number of homeless due to its size) and the aggressiveness of the people involved.

Between my wife and I, we’ve explored the States quite a bit over the years. We visited several places in the States as part of our honeymoon in 2014, including San Fran. My wife had been before and noticed a deterioration in the situation from a few years prior to this. It is the only place in the States that I’ve felt genuinely worried about our safety. I would think nothing of using the NY Subway late at night. I wouldn’t even think about using the BART at night.

There was an incident when we were queuing for a breakfast place just off Market Street one morning whereby a homeless woman manhandled the people behind us in the queue. Another homeless man thankfully intervened and managed to get her away but it was very close to turning really nasty.

[hibsbollah]

It is in a different league to New York both in terms of relative volume (I wouldn’t be surprised if NYC has an absolute bigger number of homeless due to its size) and the aggressiveness of the people involved.

Between my wife and I, we’ve explored the States quite a bit over the years. We visited several places in the States as part of our honeymoon in 2014, including San Fran. My wife had been before and noticed a deterioration in the situation from a few years prior to this. It is the only place in the States that I’ve felt genuinely worried about our safety. I would think nothing of using the NY Subway late at night. I wouldn’t even think about using the BART at night.

There was an incident when we were queuing for a breakfast place just off Market Street one morning whereby a homeless woman manhandled the people behind us in the queue. Another homeless man thankfully intervened and managed to get her away but it was very close to turning really nasty.

That's sad. I used to get the BART every morning from Pacifica and it seemed clean fast and safe to me back then.

[overdrive]

That's sad. I used to get the BART every morning from Pacifica and it seemed clean fast and safe to me back then.

Just to give the other side as well though...

One of our friends moved to SF the day after we left to work for Facebook and has been there ever since (coming on 4 years) and she loves it as a place to live. I’m not sure if it is a case of becoming immune to your surroundings over time though.

Also hands down, the best food we’ve had in the US was in SF.

[Hibrandenburg]

I've done a couple of tours in the US and generally I've loved it. The big cities however I've hated. The contrast between have and have not is wider in the US than anywhere else in the world. I found San Francisco to be relatively harmless compared to places like Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago, New York, Detroit, Washington DC and worst of all Atlantic City. We have poverty in Europe but nothing compared to over there.

[AZhibee]

I believe that opiate addiction has contributed to a rise in homelessness/ destitute persons in SF and elsewhere over the past 8 years (as referenced in the OP). Additionally, the city has a reputation for tolerance and some individuals have made their way there because of that. Cost of housing and mental health (non addiction) are strong contributors that date back decades.

[RyeSloan]

That's very interesting, thanks. It does show people declaring themselves homeless has fallen, although as Shelter in Scotland themselves say, 'this is due to the proactive approach taken by local authorities rather than a change to the pressures that result in homelessness'. I did read something about Glasgow policy of finding a house for every homeless person as an official target outcome. Perhaps something Scotland could be proud of.
The UK wide figure is very different.

Oh, and anecdotal observations can also be facts :greengrin

House First or something like that is the policy...ironically originating from the States I think.

It uses the revolutionary concept of putting a homeless or rough sleeper into a house first then assisting them in dealing with their problems. Seems this is more successful than the previous approach of not giving them a house and trying to sort their problems out first....who would have thunk that!

So you are saying that it’s a fact that anecdotal observations are indeed a fact? 🤪

Anyway the OP paints a rather depressing picture of SF but thankfully a number of Scottish Governments (both Labour and SNP) have actually given rough sleeping and homelessness some reasonably good policies and funding here. We even seem to have achieved some joined up thinking on the ground as well so thankfully it’s a problem that, while one is always too many, does seem to at least get some attention.

[calumhibee1]

I've done a couple of tours in the US and generally I've loved it. The big cities however I've hated. The contrast between have and have not is wider in the US than anywhere else in the world. I found San Francisco to be relatively harmless compared to places like Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago, New York, Detroit, Washington DC and worst of all Atlantic City. We have poverty in Europe but nothing compared to over there.

Aye, Miami and New York are the only two I’ve been to out the cities youve listed but the disparity in wealth distribution is so evident. Homeless guys with very obvious mental health problems on Miami Beach living off the water out of coconuts in 35 degree heat and eating out of bins etc.

[Sylar]

I've done a couple of tours in the US and generally I've loved it. The big cities however I've hated. The contrast between have and have not is wider in the US than anywhere else in the world. I found San Francisco to be relatively harmless compared to places like Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago, New York, Detroit, Washington DC and worst of all Atlantic City. We have poverty in Europe but nothing compared to over there.

Having been to Detroit and Chicago, I can fully appreciate what you're saying. Abject poverty there is truly abhorrent.

I think the San Francisco case is a little different, as many of the people that are on the street should be in mental health facilities that simply don't exist.

I absolutely agree that poverty in the UK pales in comparison to some of what I've witnessed over here.

[Hibrandenburg]

Having been to Detroit and Chicago, I can fully appreciate what you're saying. Abject poverty there is truly abhorrent.

I think the San Francisco case is a little different, as many of the people that are on the street should be in mental health facilities that simply don't exist.

I absolutely agree that poverty in the UK pales in comparison to some of what I've witnessed over here.

I've just started watching "The Walking Dead" and can't shake the feeling it was influenced by a visit to Atlantic City. The streets surrounding the Strip are some of the scariest you're ever likely to encounter.

[Bristolhibby]

I've just started watching "The Walking Dead" and can't shake the feeling it was influenced by a visit to Atlantic City. The streets surrounding the Strip are some of the scariest you're ever likely to encounter.

Boardwalk Empire made me want to go to AC.

Having a wander around on Google Maps, has made me not want to.

It looks grim. Only redeeming feature seems to be the casinos, and if you are after that, go to Vegas.

J

[Haymaker]

Boardwalk Empire made me want to go to AC.

Having a wander around on Google Maps, has made me not want to.

It looks grim. Only redeeming feature seems to be the casinos, and if you are after that, go to Vegas.

J

I went to Atlantic City for my birthday last year in July. Had a fantastic weekend, it's a great place, beach is beautiful, good food etc.

But don't leave the boardwalk.

[Mikeyboy]

I went to Atlantic City for my birthday last year in July. Had a fantastic weekend, it's a great place, beach is beautiful, good food etc.

But don't leave the boardwalk.

We went to SF December 16 for the first time. Lovely city overall but totally agree with comments about the homeless. I get the impression, and was told by locals, other US states use SF as a dumping ground.
Lots of Mission type places around our hotel, a Hilton on O’Farrell St not far from Union Square.

Don’t go to the Edinburgh Rock bar by the way, something out of Trainspotting!

LA and Skid Row was just the same.

AC was cool for a week a few years back. Boardwalk area good but go back a couple of blocks and it’s very different.

Like others have said, US and UK homeless/poverty generally very different.


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[Jack]

Are these guys that live on the streets allowed to carry guns?

I thought about it when I was there but didn't ask.

[Bristolhibby]

Are these guys that live on the streets allowed to carry guns?

I thought about it when I was there but didn't ask.

Do you not have to have an address to register to?

J

[Mantis Toboggan]

Do you not have to have an address to register to?

J

I doubt homeless people look for guns through legal routes.

[Hibrandenburg]

Are these guys that live on the streets allowed to carry guns?

I thought about it when I was there but didn't ask.

I'd imagine many of them were gun owners before they fell on hard times. Who knows how many of them kept hold of their guns as their world started collapsing round about them.

[GreenLake]

Are these guys that live on the streets allowed to carry guns?

I thought about it when I was there but didn't ask.

They would need a concealed carry permit which probably requires a home address on the application.

San Francisco and West Coast Cities in general have political populations more sympathetic to the homeless and better weather. A number of cities in other states send homeless individuals on one way tickets to California via bus.

In other news. London murder rate exceeds that of New York. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936) No guns in London so they must be bludgeoning each other to death.

[Sylar]

They would need a concealed carry permit which probably requires a home address on the application.

San Francisco and West Coast Cities in general have political populations more sympathetic to the homeless and better weather. A number of cities in other states send homeless individuals on one way tickets to California via bus.

In other news. London murder rate exceeds that of New York. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936) No guns in London so they must be bludgeoning each other to death.

I took my boss (who'd never been to SF) a bit of a whistle stop tour yesterday around the city when we were up visiting from Palo Alto. I deliberately avoided Market etc, but he was staggered by how bad it was in the 'tourist' areas.

We encountered some absolutely gone individuals, including a couple (?) wearing tin foil hats (genuinely), with one of them licking the wall of the building and the other guy down on all fours licking the pavement yelling at her to "make sure it's clean"...it sounds like I'm trying to be humerous with that anecdote, but I'm absolutely not. The funny incident was when we were walking along Embarcadero, and some guy rollerbladed past us wearing nothing but a top hat and a small sock-like pouch covering his Johnson...

I think you're correct that the weather is undoubtedly a factor. I've heard the stories about the one-way bus tickets too - quite a sad state of affairs all around.

[Hibrandenburg]

San Francisco and West Coast Cities in general have political populations more sympathetic to the homeless and better weather. A number of cities in other states send homeless individuals on one way tickets to California via bus.





I took my boss (who'd never been to SF) a bit of a whistle stop tour yesterday around the city when we were up visiting from Palo Alto. I deliberately avoided Market etc, but he was staggered by how bad it was in the 'tourist' areas.

We encountered some absolutely gone individuals, including a couple (?) wearing tin foil hats (genuinely), with one of them licking the wall of the building and the other guy down on all fours licking the pavement yelling at her to "make sure it's clean"...it sounds like I'm trying to be humerous with that anecdote, but I'm absolutely not. The funny incident was when we were walking along Embarcadero, and some guy rollerbladed past us wearing nothing but a top hat and a small sock-like pouch covering his Johnson...

I think you're correct that the weather is undoubtedly a factor. I've heard the stories about the one-way bus tickets too - quite a sad state of affairs all around.

If the one way bus ticket story is true then that's outrageous, I can't imagine that that could be an official policy.

[GreenLake]

I took my boss (who'd never been to SF) a bit of a whistle stop tour yesterday around the city when we were up visiting from Palo Alto. I deliberately avoided Market etc, but he was staggered by how bad it was in the 'tourist' areas.

We encountered some absolutely gone individuals, including a couple (?) wearing tin foil hats (genuinely), with one of them licking the wall of the building and the other guy down on all fours licking the pavement yelling at her to "make sure it's clean"...it sounds like I'm trying to be humerous with that anecdote, but I'm absolutely not. The funny incident was when we were walking along Embarcadero, and some guy rollerbladed past us wearing nothing but a top hat and a small sock-like pouch covering his Johnson...

I think you're correct that the weather is undoubtedly a factor. I've heard the stories about the one-way bus tickets too - quite a sad state of affairs all around.

What you saw sounds scary and I have seen some unusual things myself. There are a lot of homeless who should be in supervised care but for the reasons you mentioned before it isn't available. The rest of the homeless are from varying circumstances but a lot are not sick or addicted and I see folk with kids who look absolutely normal. To be honest, I think it is way worse than what we see traveling about our day. In LA we have one of the worst problems and it's not going to stop until they come up with some solutions. Maybe providing the addicts with free booze and drugs in some large dormitory with entertainment and medical facilities in a remote area. Any homeless person should be provided with access to shelter, toilet facilities and medical clinic.

I like this group and met a few people who volunteer http://myfriendsplace.org/who-we-are/ . It's a little ray of hope for some of the young homeless.

LA should release a few gang members from jail and bus them back to where our homeless get sent from. :greengrin

[DH1875]

No idea about San Francisco but the amount of homeless people in Hawaii is mental and a lot of these people do seem to have drug or mental health issues. Reason I'm bringing this up is that we were told that a lot of other States dump these guys in Hawaii and pay to FLY them there. We thought that was made up but upon reading that they dump people in California, who knows.


As a side note, surprised to read about Glasgow. I walk between Queen St and Central station most mornings and see dozens of people begging and sleeping rough every day.

[HibbyDave]

In SF now. The homeless/ junkies/ mental health sufferers are everywhere.
Had a few days in Vegas and felt much safet there!
Both cities are wonderful for a visit but I wont be back to SF

[Colr]

Manchester's homeless problem sounds incredibly similar. I couldn't believe it when I moved here.

It feels like a losing battle for everyone concerned.

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I’ve been doing some work on his in East London which has the highest level in the UK.

Most people who are homeless are being kicked out by private sector landlords so they can put the rents up. Anyone on low wages or benefits haven’t a chance because the HB is so far below market rents. Meanwhile, the social rented hisuing is being sold off under the Tories right to buy programme and until Sadiq Khan got involved they were being replaced with units which rented for twice as high a rent.

[Just Alf]

In SF now. The homeless/ junkies/ mental health sufferers are everywhere.
Had a few days in Vegas and felt much safet there!
Both cities are wonderful for a visit but I wont be back to SF

I was in both cities a few years back and totally thought it was the opposite way around!

SF is (was) my favourite city in the world and I've always wanted to go back ..... reading this thread it seems disappointingly that's definitely no longer the case.