Scotland v Costa Rica (and Friday's other internationals)

[Thecat23]

No leadership at the top of Scottish football and it is going to filter down. What is McLeish going to do that the guy who got sacked couldn’t? There is no plan or strategy in that appointment.

There are smaller nations with lesser players managing to compete at a better level than us. It’s been said for years, but until Scottish football rip it up and start again by getting rid of the prejudice and bias that exist in it, we’ll never move forward. Not to mention the jobs for the boys mentality with people like Doncaster, McCrae and dare I say it Petrie at the top of the game. Too much self interest at the top of our game.

Brilliant post 👏🏼

[Sauzee16]

McLeish was appointed purely to make an appointment following the embarrassment of being turn down by O'NEILL.​

Link doesn’t work.

[Sauzee16]

Mr EBT recipient should never have been anywhere near this job. He is yesterday’s man and will take Scotland precisely nowhere.

Depressing stuff.

He doesn’t actually look the full shilling which is pretty concerning for him.

[SquashedFrogg]

No - the point is you don't see the point of friendlies, when else does a manager get to look at options? It may make friendlies pointless as a whole but that's pretty much what all managers use them for - to assess options.

My apologies. I didn't understand the point of friendlies until you explained.

Although when you say "it may make friendlies pointless as a whole". Can you explain? Because if the point of a friendly is "for a manager to assess options", how can they be pointless?

[lord bunberry]

I’m not that despondent after tonight. That was nowhere near our strongest team. Hopefully we’ll paly the strongest team against Hungary, minus griffiths obviously.

[SquashedFrogg]

He wasn’t trying to find his best eleven tonight though, he was trying to give plenty of fringe player sgame time.

I don’t think he would have learned one thing tonight. Nice for a few average players to get a cap though.

Totally 100%

Murphy with 5 mins to go was a "there you go pal, there's a wee cap for you".

Sad. I do think we've got a lot of talent kicking about. It needs properly managed.

[Swedish hibee]

You got beat 1-0 by a team who is going to the World cup. Why is everyone so upset?
*tin hat on for replies*

[Sir David Gray]

Jordan jones is from Northern Ireland


Naw he's no, he's only 23.......

I don't get it. :confused:

[angus hibby]

Team selection a joke tonight. Three goalkeepers in squad and we play a 36 year old in goal. In these two games, why didn’t Archer and McLaughlin get a game each?

McKenna has played only 20 odd senior games for Aberdeen and couldn’t get a game for Ayr when he was on loan there!

McTominay has played TEN senior games and for that reason alone, shouldn’t be near a Scotland squad.

Mulgrew as captain?? Enough said.

McGinn MOTM in his only two starts for Scotland, one whilst playing against Christian Eriksen and he again, sits on his a**e for most of the night.

And Paul Hanlon sits watching the game at home.......😡

[vuefrom1875]

This.

Just beginning to lose interest in the national team.

Don't expect us to qualify for the next Euros or World Cup and, even if by some miracle we do, we will be out pretty much as soon as we get there.
Lost it years ago buddy..... Only one team for me 🍀

[Paisley Hibby]

Mr EBT recipient should never have been anywhere near this job. He is yesterday’s man and will take Scotland precisely nowhere.

Depressing stuff.

This. Like loads of folk I couldn't care less about the Scotland team and just see international weekends as an irritating break in the league fixture programme. How did it come to this?

[jabis]

I don't get it. :confused:

😀 Finnish.

[hfc rd]

No leadership at the top of Scottish football and it is going to filter down. What is McLeish going to do that the guy who got sacked couldn’t? There is no plan or strategy in that appointment.

There are smaller nations with lesser players managing to compete at a better level than us. It’s been said for years, but until Scottish football rip it up and start again by getting rid of the prejudice and bias that exist in it, we’ll never move forward. Not to mention the jobs for the boys mentality with people like Doncaster, McCrae and dare I say it Petrie at the top of the game. Too much self interest at the top of our game.


100% this.

[whiskyhibby]

Mr EBT recipient should never have been anywhere near this job. He is yesterday’s man and will take Scotland precisely nowhere.

Depressing stuff.

Absolutely spot on a hopeless team selection and got what he deserved, embarrassing stuff........

[Scorrie]

He wasn’t trying to find his best eleven tonight though, he was trying to give plenty of fringe player sgame time.

I don’t think he would have learned one thing tonight. Nice for a few average players to get a cap though.

McLeish would have learnt one thing tonight if he didn’t know already- he’s clueless

[whiskyhibby]

McLeish would have learnt one thing tonight if he didn’t know already- he’s clueless

[emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

[Stuart93]

Mcleish kind of looked like a guy who didn't want the job in the first place

[Thecat23]

McLeish would have learnt one thing tonight if he didn’t know already- he’s clueless

That’s exactly why he couldn’t find a job in club football. Threw his name at everything that came up no one wanted him. Yet Scotland with no leadership ***** the bed and beg this clown to come back. Couldn’t make it up!!

[Brightside]

Team selection a joke tonight. Three goalkeepers in squad and we play a 36 year old in goal. In these two games, why didn’t Archer and McLaughlin get a game each?

McKenna has played only 20 odd senior games for Aberdeen and couldn’t get a game for Ayr when he was on loan there!

McTominay has played TEN senior games and for that reason alone, shouldn’t be near a Scotland squad.

Mulgrew as captain?? Enough said.

McGinn MOTM in his only two starts for Scotland, one whilst playing against Christian Eriksen and he again, sits on his a**e for most of the night.

And Paul Hanlon sits watching the game at home.......😡
I don’t want Paul anywhere near these Scotland team. Let’s not ruin our own players.

[Ryan69]

You got beat 1-0 by a team who is going to the World cup. Why is everyone so upset?
*tin hat on for replies*

Not exactly Hard in their section.

[SChibs]

I don’t get this ‘wanting to have a look at all the players’.

He does that when they play for their clubs, what will he have learned about the players tonight? Nothing, even if someone had played well, it doesn’t mean they could replicate that against a better side.

Imo try to find your best side by playing your best players, win games and then let other players earn a starting slot, not just get one because he wants to give everyone a game.

These international friendlies seem to be turning into primary school matches where someone’s dad has to try and work out when it to play the best players so they can make sure everyone gets an equal amount of game time.

As underscore said earlier, we never went out to win that game tonight, we went to try and make sure certain players got a run out.

Players play well with different players. Just cause someone is playing well at their club it doesn't mean they'll perform for Scotland as the team is completely different. Friendlies are about seeing how different players got into different systems and who can play with who.

[SChibs]

Not exactly Hard in their section.

Still a decent side as they proved at the last world cup

[hibbie02]

We had a stronger team after 80 minutes than we started with. Having a Scottish sounding surname and playing down South should not be a guarantee of a starting place. I am disappointed by Eck as his first term was a not bad period for us and he walked out into oblivion. The staring eleven was a joke. Don't repeat it. And lose that Yam at the back!

[vuefrom1875]

What's the crack with Barry Ferguson's hair?

And his jaiket.... Hun

[Iain G]

Cairney is a class player. McLeish shouldnt get to coach the local BB team. Decent players become rubbish with this lot.

Think he has already managed his local Billy Boys team? 😁

[Sammy7nil]

Still a decent side as they proved at the last world cup

This time round they look bang average they will play for nil nils and hope they sneak a one nil win. If given a free bet you would not back them to beat anyone in Russia. Yes I know it is a friendly but on that showing they will struggle big time.

[JimBHibees]

Play 3 at the back and only 1 up front, what is that about. McGinn put in more energy in the 10 he was on than loads of others did in time they were on. Cairney looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there,

[JohnM1875]

Play 3 at the back and only 1 up front, what is that about. McGinn put in more energy in the 10 he was on than loads of others did in time they were on. Cairney looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there,

100% agree. And it's not even because I'm a Hibs fan! (really rate Patterson for example) really bizarre starting midfield and it's a worry going forward.

[Sammy7nil]

Play 3 at the back and only 1 up front, what is that about. McGinn put in more energy in the 10 he was on than loads of others did in time they were on. Cairney looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there,

Yeah and McGinn was terrible too, fouls misplaced passes over hit cross he had no impact other than he ran about. Yes it is difficult with only ten mins but don't kid on he made an impact.

[JimBHibees]

Yeah and McGinn was terrible too, fouls misplaced passes over hit cross he had no impact other than he ran about. Yes it is difficult with only ten mins but don't kid on he made an impact.

Putting in some effort was more an impact than some.

[mjhibby]

Putting in some effort was more an impact than some.

Its not so much what he did but the impact him coming on had. We were totally pressing them and only our poor use of the ball stopped us scoring. Mcginn made a big impact as they were severely hanging in end. God knows why he wasn't brought on earlier. Charlie mcgruw shouldn't be anywhere a Scotland squad. Sane,old, same old.

[lord bunberry]

You got beat 1-0 by a team who is going to the World cup. Why is everyone so upset?
*tin hat on for replies*

Tbh I’m starting to find your smugness really annoying. Are you actually a hibs fan or have you just joined the forum because you like hibs? I get the fact that everything is obviously better where you are, but we don’t really need to hear about it.

[Swedish hibee]

Tbh I’m starting to find your smugness really annoying. Are you actually a hibs fan or have you just joined the forum because you like hibs? I get the fact that everything is obviously better where you are, but we don’t really need to hear about it.

I easily ignore your often senseless posts on here as many others do without a very personnel nasty bitter attack, pity you cannot do the same here on a open forum where every fan in the world is welcome regardless of their football views.
I've been posting on here for over 10 years, spent time & money on supporting Hibs from afar so no need to question my support for my my team.

[Stonewall]

Mcleish kind of looked like a guy who didn't want the job in the first place

I think he wants the job alright. He has a rather large tax bill to pay and no-one else would touch him.

[Carheenlea]

McGeouch dodged a bullet in some ways - no danger was he going to get a game.

[Onion]

McLeish was appointed purely to make an appointment following the embarrassment of being turn down by O'NEILL.​

One thing's certain, O'Neill would have been given a lot more slack by fans than McLeish is going to get. McLeish needs to start showing progress pretty quickly otherwise I fear crowds will drop away and the SFA will be under pressure to replace him before a ball is kicked in the qualifiers. Watching McLeish post match, he already sounds/looks like a dour, worn out guy who doesn't have much of a clue and would prefer to be somewhere else.

[hibsbollah]

One thing's certain, O'Neill would have been given a lot more slack by fans than McLeish is going to get. McLeish needs to start showing progress pretty quickly otherwise I fear crowds will drop away and the SFA will be under pressure to replace him before a ball is kicked in the qualifiers. Watching McLeish post match, he already sounds/looks like a dour, worn out guy who doesn't have much of a clue and would prefer to be somewhere else.

He's badly in need of some vitamin D as well. I've seen healthier looking junkies.

[chrisski33]

Why are folk surprised we lost?folk need to realise Scottish players arent as good as folk hope they are and it isnt just down to who are manager is

[bigwheel]

Costa Rica are ranked 26th in FIFA rankings - qualified for the World Cup ahead of USA and others...not sure why people are so surprised we failed to win in the first outing of a new squad...thought it was a reasonable performance tbh - particularly with lots of change in the squad..

[Austinho]

Our under 21s needed a last minute equaliser to draw with ANDORRA. The future is looking slightly bleak!

[GreenCastle]

Why are folk surprised we lost?folk need to realise Scottish players arent as good as folk hope they are and it isnt just down to who are manager is

Agreed - said it previously doesn’t matter if they have Pep in charge of that squad.

Bottom line is we don’t produce enough players who are intellectually good enough.

I couldn’t even tell you who our best player / main player is as we don’t have one and think of every other nation and they have a main star.

Charlie Mulgrew is really going to inspire the next lot of Scottish youngsters..

Will be a long time till Scotland qualify for any tournament - only hope is the expanded euros but wouldn’t bet on it.

Compare to Scottish Rugby - decent coach - good young players - few star names now = sell out Murrayfield - feel good factor - giving Scotland something to be proud of.

[southsider]

Why are folk surprised we lost?folk need to realise Scottish players arent as good as folk hope they are and it isnt just down to who are manager is
Watched Germany-Spain and the first half was quite brilliant. The second ruined by too many subs. At 34 Andres Iniesta still wants to play for his country and gave a sensational display of pure football.

[makaveli1875]

Well all the optimism i had for this new era was well and truly crushed before the game had even started when i saw the line up . Listening to Mcleish pre match talking the talk i expected us to at least have a go . Im off to resesarch my family tree im sure 1 of my great grandads was irish :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Our under 21s needed a last minute equaliser to draw with ANDORRA. The future is looking slightly bleak!

:agree: That's far more worrying to me than the senior team's loss to Costa Rica.

Horrific result.

[B.H.F.C]

Costa Rica are ranked 26th in FIFA rankings - qualified for the World Cup ahead of USA and others...not sure why people are so surprised we failed to win in the first outing of a new squad...thought it was a reasonable performance tbh - particularly with lots of change in the squad..

I don’t think anybody is that surprised really. But there is just a general apathy towards the national team. A new manager should bring a bit hope and excitement but the appointment of McLeish after the shambles of a recruitment process clearly hasn’t done that.

It stems more from the people running the game I think. They don’t even have sponsorship deals in place for things like the Scottish Cup from next season. The whole organisation is a shambles and whilst football fans normally only care about what is happening on the pitch, the whole thing is broken.

[Sauzee16]

Our under 21s needed a last minute equaliser to draw with ANDORRA. The future is looking slightly bleak!

And people thought Scott Genmill was the way forward?

I wish they appointed Caldwell instead of GJP.

[Billy Whizz]

And people thought Scott Genmill was the way forward?

Don’t think we’ve got a particularly good crop at this level, but no matter what, we should be beating the likes of Andorra etc
Gemmill has brought in Peter Houston as his assistant .....

[Smartie]

It was just a friendly, and it was a fairly experimental side.

We still have quite a few friendlies before we have a competitive fixture, so I'd expect some more experimentation and some more disjointed performances.

As long as McLeish learns from the experience, I'm happy, even if it is a case of "that didn't work, won't do that again".

It was pish though.

[Brightside]

Our under 21s needed a last minute equaliser to draw with ANDORRA. The future is looking slightly bleak!

Exactly! Project brave tho eh.... the game is run by people who would struggle to run a race night at the local youth club. Anyone who has the misfortune to attend SFA coaching sessions will see why we are going backwards. Everything stinks from top to bottom.

[Hibernian Verse]

We will hopefully be having a different discussion on Monday night. I was impressed with McBurnie, McKenna, Ritchie, Robertson & McTominay.

Cairney wasn't up to expectations and I thought there was no need for McDonald alongside McTominay. It's also worth pointing out we would be a different team with Leigh.

Team for Monday hopefully:

McGregor/A N Other

Paterson
McKenna
Hendry
Robertson

Ritchie
McTominay
McGinn
Armstrong
Philips

McBurnie

[Sauzee16]

Don’t think we’ve got a particularly good crop at this level, but no matter what, we should be beating the likes of Andorra etc
Gemmill has brought in Peter Houston as his assistant .....

Fair enough but like you said we should be pumping Andorra. Houston? Sums it up. Actual disgrace.

[Sir David Gray]

Don’t think we’ve got a particularly good crop at this level, but no matter what, we should be beating the likes of Andorra etc
Gemmill has brought in Peter Houston as his assistant .....

If only the Scotland U21s had the same resources as their Andorran counterparts.

[CockneyRebel]

My apologies. I didn't understand the point of friendlies until you explained.

Although when you say "it may make friendlies pointless as a whole". Can you explain? Because if the point of a friendly is "for a manager to assess options", how can they be pointless?

It becomes pointless if too many players are used - have a plan/strategy in mind and play the team you feel can implement it, then you might learn something. Giving 16 or more players a run out gets you no further forward IMO. I'm not so daft that I can't see that too many friendly games appear to be a complete waste of time (changing the whole team at half etc.). I am not defending the way they are used but they could/should be a useful exercise if used more wisely.

[brog]

TBH, really nothing has changed in the 50/60 years I've spent watching Scotland. Average OF players get caps before outstanding non OF players. Alex Cropley 2 caps, King Pat 16, Roy Aitken 57 & Tommy Boyd 72 sums it up for me. Then we have the Anglo perspective. For many years it was said that a Scottish duck became a swan as soon as they crossed the border. Again nothing has changed. 10 English based players started last night & with the exception of the outstanding Andy Robertson there was little to excite, & I support the inclusion of Ritchie & Paterson. McD & McT ambled about the midfield hitting square passes to each other & McB was like Simon Murray without as good a first touch! No shape, structure, cohesion or long term vision. It was ever thus! To paraphrase our marketing slogan of a few years back, The future is sh*te!

[GreenCastle]

I was under the impression friendlies also affect FIFA ranking points ?

Which affects seeding for tournaments ?

[Sauzee16]

I was under the impression friendlies also affect FIFA ranking points ?

Which affects seeding for tournaments ?

I think it’s marginal otherwise we could just play the Farris and San Marino ever friendly. This new tournament against Albania & Isreal will count more forwards rankings for the actual Euros and WC draws.

[bingo70]

It becomes pointless if too many players are used - have a plan/strategy in mind and play the team you feel can implement it, then you might learn something. Giving 16 or more players a run out gets you no further forward IMO. I'm not so daft that I can't see that too many friendly games appear to be a complete waste of time (changing the whole team at half etc.). I am not defending the way they are used but they could/should be a useful exercise if used more wisely.

Exactly what I am thinking and a good post.

‘Getting to see players’ is only of any use if they’re surrounded by players who are likely to be starting most games. Making wholesale changes and playing such an inexperienced side makes it completely pointless.

Imo there should be the core of the team you’d expect to start if it was a competitive game, a couple of other experiments to give people a game makes sense but imo last night was completely pointless and a total waste of time.

Said it last night but McLeish wouldn’t have learned one thing from last nights game.

[Brightside]

I was under the impression friendlies also affect FIFA ranking points ?

Which affects seeding for tournaments ?

It does... we should be playing friendlies against dross.

[Just Jimmy]

It does... we should be playing friendlies against dross.we are the dross that people play friendlies against.

mctominey and mcginn should have been tried in the usual team that would start. if Griffiths isn't fit then someone else should start for him.

bring others as subs.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Blaster]

Exactly what I am thinking and a good post.

‘Getting to see players’ is only of any use if they’re surrounded by players who are likely to be starting most games. Making wholesale changes and playing such an inexperienced side makes it completely pointless.

Imo there should be the core of the team you’d expect to start if it was a competitive game, a couple of other experiments to give people a game makes sense but imo last night was completely pointless and a total waste of time.

Said it last night but McLeish wouldn’t have learned one thing from last nights game.

Spot on

[Billy Whizz]

What was the attendance at Hampden last night?

[Leithenhibby]

we are the dross that people play friendlies against.

mctominey and mcginn should have been tried in the usual team that would start. if Griffiths isn't fit then someone else should start for him.

bring others as subs.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Unfortunately true... :agree:

[Leithenhibby]

What was the attendance at Hampden last night?

According to the Scotsman - 20,488

"The wisdom of staging such a less-than-glamorous friendly at Hampden rather than a smaller stadium elsewhere in the country was always debatable. When even with the hundreds of free tickets handed to schoolchildren the attendance was only 20,488, that folly was fully exposed. It was expected that McLeish’s first game, and his fresh-looking squad, might put a few on the gate. It probably did. Only very few, alas".

[Smartie]

Exactly what I am thinking and a good post.

‘Getting to see players’ is only of any use if they’re surrounded by players who are likely to be starting most games. Making wholesale changes and playing such an inexperienced side makes it completely pointless.

Imo there should be the core of the team you’d expect to start if it was a competitive game, a couple of other experiments to give people a game makes sense but imo last night was completely pointless and a total waste of time.

Said it last night but McLeish wouldn’t have learned one thing from last nights game.

You could drive a bus through the centre of that defence - that area must be changed.

Patterson is a good attacking threat but suspect defensively. Worth persevering with though, in what has become a problem position for us.

That midfield didn't work at all and should not be repeated in a competitive match. There are midfield places up for grabs.

Andy Robertson is the real deal, and we must find a way to play both him and Kieran Tierney.

McBurnie looks raw, far from the finished article but at least looks like he wants to be there (unlike Cairney - a player of great reputation and promise who looked lost and hopeless and seriously harmed his chances of being considered for a prominent role in forthcoming games).

Leigh Griffiths is hugely important to Scotland's fortunes - with him fit we look a different team, without him we struggle.

It is hard to argue that the team shouldn't be built around the core of Celtic players who play week in week out together, including Champions League games (THE highest level, not playing against Burnley and Swansea every week).

Maybe the English Championship isn't where we should be looking for all of our International talent. Players playing week in week out in the Scottish league, playing consistently well and enjoying their football may be just as good at transferring their form to International level as players who just about hold their own in a grossly over-rated league?



That's what I took out of it. Just one of five (?) friendlies before we play a "proper" game again.

If McLeish learns then it's been worthwhile. I like McLeish, always have. He was a good manager for us, a good manager for Scotland and I think he'll do fine, even if he had a ropey team selection and limp performance in his first friendly in charge.

[Mikey]

N Ireland v S Korea coming up on Sky 424. Kick off is 2pm.

[Calidad]

Thankfully I didn’t get get to watch the game last night, but I’m not surprised that it was uninspiring, especially with Eck at the helm.

I think Tierney needs to play LB, and Robertson LM. Perhaps in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

After Leigh though, the options up front look nigh on woeful.

Patterson, McGinn, Hanlon, Armstrong, McGregor etc need to be given opportunities to play themselves into international football whilst they’re still comparatively young. They could form a decent core in years to come. But by sticking with the never-has-beens, they’ll never get that chance to develop.

Why can’t a single Scotland manager in recent years grow sold balls and shakeup the Scotland side by injecting youth and taking some risks?

[Sauzee16]

Thankfully I didn’t get get to watch the game last night, but I’m not surprised that it was uninspiring, especially with Eck at the helm.

I think Tierney needs to play LB, and Robertson LM. Perhaps in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

After Leigh though, the options up front look nigh on woeful.

Patterson, McGinn, Hanlon, Armstrong, McGregor etc need to be given opportunities to play themselves into international football whilst they’re still comparatively young. They could form a decent core in years to come. But by sticking with the never-has-beens, they’ll never get that chance to develop.

Why can’t a single Scotland manager in recent years grow sold balls and shakeup the Scotland side by injecting youth and taking some risks?



Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

[Calidad]

Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

Who are our international quality CB’s?

[Sauzee16]

Who are our international quality CB’s?

Berra and Hanley are about the best we have at this current time. I would also suggest Martin and Tierney if need be. Hendry Lindsay and the sheep lad are very good prospects.

[Mikey]

Cracking free kick there from Northern Ireland to equalise.

[SeanWilson]

Costa Rica are ranked 26th in FIFA rankings - qualified for the World Cup ahead of USA and others...not sure why people are so surprised we failed to win in the first outing of a new squad...thought it was a reasonable performance tbh - particularly with lots of change in the squad..

Because, it's seemed fairly obvious that with a different formation and personnel, we'd have beat them quite easily?

[brog]

Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

Paul Hanlon turned 28 in January, that's not nearly 30.. Russell Martin who you propose in another post is 32. I would take Hanlon before any of our centre backs last night.

[bigwheel]

Because, it's seemed fairly obvious that with a different formation and personnel, we'd have beat them quite easily?


that's such an easy thing to say and impossible to prove other than hindsight management views...the fact is they are a higher performing international side than us, and therefore the assumption that we should win is flawed.

secondly, it's a friendly - it was simply about McLeish seeing what he had and trying a few things out - the score is irrelevant..other than those who want to make a "thing" of it..

[Sauzee16]

Paul Hanlon turned 28 in January, that's not nearly 30.. Russell Martin who you propose in another post is 32. I would take Hanlon before any of our centre backs last night.

I was talking in reply to giving youth a chance at the back. Hanlon is a fantastic Hibs player and I would say captain until his career is through and a fine one he’s had but I don’t think he’s international class. Russell Martin is a better defender imo.

[SeanWilson]

that's such an easy thing to say and impossible to prove other than hindsight management views...the fact is they are a higher performing international side than us, and therefore the assumption that we should win is flawed.

secondly, it's a friendly - it was simply about McLeish seeing what he had and trying a few things out - the score is irrelevant..other than those who want to make a "thing" of it..
I get all the excuses people are chucking about, however the reality is - this was his first match in charge of the national side, there should have been a statement of intent, friendly or not. The selection was nothing short of bizarre.

[bigwheel]

I get all the excuses people are chucking about, however the reality is - this was his first match in charge of the national side, there should have been a statement of intent, friendly or not. The selection was nothing short of bizarre.


it's an almost meaningless game...the only purpose is to get to know the players and learn something...you are making it out to be an important event..it isn't.

[Sauzee16]

I get all the excuses people are chucking about, however the reality is - this was his first match in charge of the national side, there should have been a statement of intent, friendly or not. The selection was nothing short of bizarre.

Not really.

He didn’t choose the friendly. He went ahead regardless.

Check Michael O’Neil’s comments on when he first took the NI job.

For all I’m against GJP again getting the gig, yesterday was a get together followed by a match.

[Calidad]

Berra and Hanley are about the best we have at this current time. I would also suggest Martin and Tierney if need be. Hendry Lindsay and the sheep lad are very good prospects.

See, that’s where we differ. For me, I believe we already know that Berra and Hanley are not good enough. They’ve been tried and tested and have come up short on a number of occasions. Why persist?

[SeanWilson]

Not really.

He didn’t choose the friendly. He went ahead regardless.

Check Michael O’Neil’s comments on when he first took the NI job.

For all I’m against GJP again getting the gig, yesterday was a get together followed by a match.

Why not really? If I've got to have a weekend not watching hibs cause the national team have a ridiculous friendly organised, I'd at least like them to show us what the point in punting GS was.

[G B Young]

According to the Scotsman - 20,488

"The wisdom of staging such a less-than-glamorous friendly at Hampden rather than a smaller stadium elsewhere in the country was always debatable. When even with the hundreds of free tickets handed to schoolchildren the attendance was only 20,488, that folly was fully exposed. It was expected that McLeish’s first game, and his fresh-looking squad, might put a few on the gate. It probably did. Only very few, alas".

Even with the hundreds of free tickets handed out I'm genuinely amazed they got even that many. It just wouldn't enter my thinking to attend such a non-event.

[Sauzee16]

See, that’s where we differ. For me, I believe we already know that Berra and Hanley are not good enough. They’ve been tried and tested and have come up short on a number of occasions. Why persist?

When did they come up short? We hadn’t lost in how many games under Strachan? I can’t remember us getting pumped in our last campaign either Slovakia apart and I’m not sure who was in defence that night?

[Sauzee16]

Why not really? If I've got to have a weekend not watching hibs cause the national team have a ridiculous friendly organised, I'd at least like them to show us what the point in punting GS was.

It’s not really about you with all due respect bud. The national team is obligated to have a break of fixtures regardless.

[Sauzee16]

Northern Ireland beating Korea.

[hibsbollah]

Northern Ireland beating Korea.

2-1 Norn win. Quite a result. The way Son Hyeung Min is playing I thought the Koreans might be an outside chance for a world cup quarter final place, but I see they're in a tough group, and the bookies have them at 750/1 rank no hopers.

[brog]

When did they come up short? We hadn’t lost in how many games under Strachan? I can’t remember us getting pumped in our last campaign either Slovakia apart and I’m not sure who was in defence that night?j

Hanley & Martin were our central defence against Slovakia. IIRC at least 2 of the goals were headers/set pieces. Hanley & Berra were our central defenders against England when we conceded 3 headers. We had a very weak qualifying group, Engerlund apart, & still failed miserably.

[Velma Dinkley]

j

Hanley & Martin were our central defence against Slovakia. IIRC at least 2 of the goals were headers/set pieces. Hanley & Berra were our central defenders against England when we conceded 3 headers. We had a very weak qualifying group, Engerlund apart, & still failed miserably.

Our defence has been good despite our limited resources. It seems weird that people critisice the likes of Grant Hanley. He was thrown in at the deep end when he was just a kid. Why? Because everyone else, including more experienced defenders, were deemed to be more pish.

[weecounty hibby]

j

Hanley & Martin were our central defence against Slovakia. IIRC at least 2 of the goals were headers/set pieces. Hanley & Berra were our central defenders against England when we conceded 3 headers. We had a very weak qualifying group, Engerlund apart, & still failed miserably.
Absolutely with you on that. The day that Hanley is no better than Hanlon and neither is Berra. Paul Hanlon, The sheep boy who played last night, Soutar even should all be given a chance in these games before Hanley and Berra. We know what Hanley and Berra do and that's not very good. Give the others a chance, you know what they might just surprise folk.
Ater the 1994 world cup disaster, France binned all the old reliable, tried and trusted players as they had failed to qualify. Brought in fresh players, a lot of the U21 squad and hey presto they win the world cup in 98. Now I don't expect to win the world cup I think it demonstrates how failure needs to be changed and we just don't do that ever! Same old same old, one or two changes but we all know that when it comes to competitive games, Hanley, Berra, Mulgrew etc will all be trotted out again.
Last night was pretty depressing. Again, take of McBurnie, a new face and some one to try and replace him with Matt Phillips. Cummings should have been tried. Again we know what Phillips does and again its not very much
As someone who has been to two world cups and a Euro championship and used to be a member of the travel club, Scotland football team are slowly becoming an irrelevance to me. As I said, depressing

[ACLeith]

Absolutely with you on that. The day that Hanley is no better than Hanlon and neither is Berra. Paul Hanlon, The sheep boy who played last night, Soutar even should all be given a chance in these games before Hanley and Berra. We know what Hanley and Berra do and that's not very good. Give the others a chance, you know what they might just surprise folk.
Ater the 1994 world cup disaster, France binned all the old reliable, tried and trusted players as they had failed to qualify. Brought in fresh players, a lot of the U21 squad and hey presto they win the world cup in 98. Now I don't expect to win the world cup I think it demonstrates how failure needs to be changed and we just don't do that ever! Same old same old, one or two changes but we all know that when it comes to competitive games, Hanley, Berra, Mulgrew etc will all be trotted out again.
Last night was pretty depressing. Again, take of McBurnie, a new face and some one to try and replace him with Matt Phillips. Cummings should have been tried. Again we know what Phillips does and again its not very much
As someone who has been to two world cups and a Euro championship and used to be a member of the travel club, Scotland football team are slowly becoming an irrelevance to me. As I said, depressing

Amen to that! And the goalkeeping choice was the most pathetic of all

[basehibby]

TBH, really nothing has changed in the 50/60 years I've spent watching Scotland. Average OF players get caps before outstanding non OF players. Alex Cropley 2 caps, King Pat 16, Roy Aitken 57 & Tommy Boyd 72 sums it up for me. Then we have the Anglo perspective. For many years it was said that a Scottish duck became a swan as soon as they crossed the border. Again nothing has changed. 10 English based players started last night & with the exception of the outstanding Andy Robertson there was little to excite, & I support the inclusion of Ritchie & Paterson. McD & McT ambled about the midfield hitting square passes to each other & McB was like Simon Murray without as good a first touch! No shape, structure, cohesion or long term vision. It was ever thus! To paraphrase our marketing slogan of a few years back, The future is sh*te!

Bang on the money mate :cb that Pat Stanton - an international player all day and all night - retired with a meagre 16 caps beggars belief and is a pointer to a malaise which has never really gone away from Scottish Football.

In the modern game, competent Scottish players with superior physical attributes tend to be favourites to land a prized contract in the English game as opposed to the flair players who often don't tick all the boxes physically. The lower leagues in England are not bereft of skill, but the marathon nature of their league competitions tend to mean that graft is valued far in excess of flair and this is evident in the prevalence of industrial hoofball in these leagues.

I don't think this does the English international side any favours at all as it results in a dearth of flair players making the breakthrough - and the Scottish international side does not benefit either from an over-estimation of the significance of a player plying their trade in England. International football is played at a higher physical tempo yes - but flair and skill on the ball are also essential ingredients as the level gets higher. Players like Philips and Handley who both got a run out last night are a perfect example - fine physical specimens who graft for the jersey fair enough, but in terms of footballing ability, if we're relying on guys like that then we ain't going to cut the mustard at international level any time soon.

[brog]

Our defence has been good despite our limited resources. It seems weird that people critisice the likes of Grant Hanley. He was thrown in at the deep end when he was just a kid. Why? Because everyone else, including more experienced defenders, were deemed to be more pish.

I wasn't actually criticising Hanley, just responding to a request for information. I would have Hanley in before the 30+ year olds, Mulgrew, Martin & Berra. The fact is though Hanley was deemed surplus to requirements by Newcastle & had been effectively binned by Scotland. ( It was at this time our defensive record improved ) Half a season with Norwich & he's back in the fold. Personally I think the left/right combination of Hanley the stopper with Hanlon, the better footballer could work but I'd be equally happy to see Souttar, Lindsay, Cooper or McKenna given a proper opportunity.

[ACLeith]

TBH, really nothing has changed in the 50/60 years I've spent watching Scotland. Average OF players get caps before outstanding non OF players. Alex Cropley 2 caps, King Pat 16, Roy Aitken 57 & Tommy Boyd 72 sums it up for me. Then we have the Anglo perspective. For many years it was said that a Scottish duck became a swan as soon as they crossed the border. Again nothing has changed. 10 English based players started last night & with the exception of the outstanding Andy Robertson there was little to excite, & I support the inclusion of Ritchie & Paterson. McD & McT ambled about the midfield hitting square passes to each other & McB was like Simon Murray without as good a first touch! No shape, structure, cohesion or long term vision. It was ever thus! To paraphrase our marketing slogan of a few years back, The future is sh*te!

And the worst of all - Gordon Smith 19 caps for arguably the greatest Scottish player ever

[southsider]

These games should be played At Easter road Tynecastle , Pittodrie etc


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Tiny Castle pitch is too wee.

[southsider]

And the worst of all - Gordon Smith 19 caps for arguably the greatest Scottish player ever

But back then a player only got caps for home international games. Very few other international games but agree with your point mate.

[Stoney Hibee]

Absolutely with you on that. The day that Hanley is no better than Hanlon and neither is Berra. Paul Hanlon, The sheep boy who played last night, Soutar even should all be given a chance in these games before Hanley and Berra. We know what Hanley and Berra do and that's not very good. Give the others a chance, you know what they might just surprise folk.
Ater the 1994 world cup disaster, France binned all the old reliable, tried and trusted players as they had failed to qualify. Brought in fresh players, a lot of the U21 squad and hey presto they win the world cup in 98. Now I don't expect to win the world cup I think it demonstrates how failure needs to be changed and we just don't do that ever! Same old same old, one or two changes but we all know that when it comes to competitive games, Hanley, Berra, Mulgrew etc will all be trotted out again.
Last night was pretty depressing. Again, take of McBurnie, a new face and some one to try and replace him with Matt Phillips. Cummings should have been tried. Again we know what Phillips does and again its not very much
As someone who has been to two world cups and a Euro championship and used to be a member of the travel club, Scotland football team are slowly becoming an irrelevance to me. As I said, depressing

I was very disappointed that Phillips trotted on last night in front of Jason. Phillips had almost a full game to impress against a very poor dutch team in November and looked so far off the pace of international football it was painful to watch at times. It could be of course that Cummings will get the start or more time against Hungary though, i am assuming the same for SJM. As a regular Scotland watcher i would be very unhappy if the two CM from last night rock up and get a regular game in front of him.

I thought McKenna played pretty well on his debut, which may not be great news for Paul H, although Paul would be better than Mulgrew any day of the week as well though.

[Smartie]

The fact is though, that our defence looked much improved in the second half of the campaign when Berra partnered Mulgrew at the back.

I get that Hanley has had a decent half season for Norwich but I've never seen him with my own eyes and thought he was a football player, and I thought he was pish again last night.

There are only so many opportunities that someone should be given when they continually fail to cut it at that level. Sometimes supposedly inferior players playing at a supposedly inferior level get the opportunity at International level and take it - see Berra (who I don't think is that great, but did well for Scotland over a few games), David Healy for Northern Ireland, Chris Gunter for Wales.

I think McLeish is right to throw it open and see what a few players can do, and he was probably right to give Hanley an opportunity based on his club form in what has been a problem position for us for a while. But I would like to see a few other players get an opportunity and the jersey for the competitive games should go to whoever actually impresses whilst playing for Scotland, not based on what they are doing anywhere else.

[ACLeith]

But back then a player only got caps for home international games. Very few other international games but agree with your point mate.

Willie Waddell got 18 caps in about the same time period. My old man used to rant about why that was - brog echoed exactly what my dad said way back then!

[brog]

The fact is though, that our defence looked much improved in the second half of the campaign when Berra partnered Mulgrew at the back.

I get that Hanley has had a decent half season for Norwich but I've never seen him with my own eyes and thought he was a football player, and I thought he was pish again last night.

There are only so many opportunities that someone should be given when they continually fail to cut it at that level. Sometimes supposedly inferior players playing at a supposedly inferior level get the opportunity at International level and take it - see Berra (who I don't think is that great, but did well for Scotland over a few games), David Healy for Northern Ireland, Chris Gunter for Wales.

I think McLeish is right to throw it open and see what a few players can do, and he was probably right to give Hanley an opportunity based on his club form in what has been a problem position for us for a while. But I would like to see a few other players get an opportunity and the jersey for the competitive games should go to whoever actually impresses whilst playing for Scotland, not based on what they are doing anywhere else.

I agree the defence improved but we had already played our 2 toughest games by that time, Slovakia & England away. The defence was ludicrously unbalanced, the whole back 5 against England were left footed. I have never seen that before, even at club level.

[Jones28]

Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

Hanlon has never been tested at that level and surely deserves a chance. He's only just 28 - in his prime - and captained his country at a younger level.

I feel his came has come on in since Lennon appointment and he should be in the squad and given an opportunity in a friendly.

[Brightside]

Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

Utter nonsense.

[Billy Whizz]

Hanlon has never been tested at that level and surely deserves a chance. He's only just 28 - in his prime - and captained his country at a younger level.

I feel his came has come on in since Lennon appointment and he should be in the squad and given an opportunity in a friendly.

Heard Mcleish on the radio, saying we had a lot of left footed centre backs, but not right sided ones!
Think if Paul was right footed, probably be in the squad

[ancient hibee]

But back then a player only got caps for home international games. Very few other international games but agree with your point mate.
Yes it’s more accurate to say international appearances rather than caps for players from that time.
Regarding the present team we are at a time when players can appear for our international team without being able to instantly control the ball or mark an opposing player in the penalty area.This inability to do the basics seems endemic among Scottish players when they are away from their clubs.

[Hamish]

With the withdrawl of McTominay, surely SJM must be in with a great shout to start on Tuesday.

[Sauzee16]

Utter nonsense.

It seems like numerous managers agree with my "utter nonsense" tbh,

[JimBHibees]

With the withdrawl of McTominay, surely SJM must be in with a great shout to start on Tuesday.

He should be starting even if McTominay didnt go home.

[CorrieHibs]

Hanlon is close to 30 and not good enough. It’s the same with Hearts fans calling for that Souter boy to play when he reminds me on Hanlon about 7 years ago. Both good players but not internationalists.

Agreed!

[Just Jimmy]

He should be starting even if McTominay didnt go home.Exactly.

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