Will there be a World Cup boycott?

[lord bunberry]

Everyday the tension seems to be ratcheted up between Britain and Russia. We’ve had the foreign secretary(who admittedly is an idiot) likening the World Cup to the 1936 olympics in nazi Germany. Will there be a united front from European countries? I don’t want to get into the politics of this, more interested to know if people think that a boycott is a possibility, or even switching it to another country.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well i'm proud that my beloved Scotland have already boycotted the WC in russia, if only engerlund had the guts/morals to do the same












p.s. no participating country will boycott :)

[lord bunberry]

well i'm proud that my beloved Scotland have already boycotted the WC in russia, if only engerlund had the guts/morals to do the same












p.s. no participating country will boycott :)
We knew mate. :greengrin

[Michael]

England will boycott the knockout stages anyway.

[Jackh]

No

[Bostonhibby]

No, the global brands who sponsor it won't allow the politicians or football authorities to do that.

[Keith_M]

Scotland have boycotted every World Cup after 1998, when Blatter arrived.

We are now continuing that noble position by boycotting Russia, and presumably the Qatar finals in 2022.




Makes me proud to be Scottish :greengrin


-----------------


As for England, they quite obviously have no morals



https://i2.wp.com/thesefootballtimes.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/england.jpg?resize=1400%2C892&ssl=1

[IGRIGI]

Hope so, Scotland can then turn up in Moscow and do an Alan Wells and bring home the gold :greengrin

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Not a chance any team would boycott the tournament. There is far too much money at stake both for the Fa's involved and also for the players or more significantly their agents as World cups are where names are made and intercontinental transfer deals struck.

What does amuse me about this whole situation is what the reaction to the England team over there is going to be. There will be a much reduced travelling support and I think the crowds will be baying for England.
The team will be holed up in their training base and will feel under siege from all around them. It could get very interesting.

[GreenOnions]

We've only had the trial by media and spin so far. Not sure if such things as evidence and judicial proceedings are required any more. I'd say it will only be a boycott by the Royal Family so nothing to worry about

[Keith_M]

In all seriousness, I fear for any English Fans that travel over there and hope they get back safely.

The Russians were bad enough in France, so I dread to think what they'll be like at home, probably backed by officialdom.

[Northernhibee]

In all seriousness, I fear for any English Fans that travel over there and hope they get back safely.

The Russians were bad enough in France, so I dread to think what they'll be like at home, probably backed by officialdom.

Yep. FIFA have so much to answer for in awarding Russia and Qatar back to back world cups.

[green day]

Yep. FIFA have so much to answer for in awarding Russia and Qatar back to back world cups.

Although I was gutted Scotland didnt make it, who in their right mind would want to go to Russia or Qatar?

France 20 years ago was amazing, as was Italy 1990. I cant see either of these places being anywhere near as punter friendly.

Oh, and as for FIFA awarding the competitions, well its all bribery and corruption now under the guise of "moving the competition out of its european heartlands and leaving a legacy". It is horse manure when the commonwealth games people say it, but a bigger pile when FIFA say it.

[ScottB]

Never should have been there anyway, but short of open war I can’t think there’d be a boycott, hell I wouldn’t be surprised if commercial clauses prevent it. Any country refusing to go would probably get sued.

[Ryan69]

Everyday the tension seems to be ratcheted up between Britain and Russia. We’ve had the foreign secretary(who admittedly is an idiot) likening the World Cup to the 1936 olympics in nazi Germany. Will there be a united front from European countries? I don’t want to get into the politics of this, more interested to know if people think that a boycott is a possibility, or even switching it to another country.

The same world cup the England players all did a nazi salute at.

[overdrive]

Don’t FIFA have some ridiculous rule that member associations can’t be seen to be influenced by their nation’s government? I think because of that any country that boycotts the World Cup will be severely punished by FIFA.

[Nameless]

In all seriousness, I fear for any English Fans that travel over there and hope they get back safely.

The Russians were bad enough in France, so I dread to think what they'll be like at home, probably backed by officialdom.I think the Russians will roll out the red carpet for the English - really go over the top with the hospitality and make a big deal of all the efforts they go to in protecting them. It's great PR for them, and if the English go home unscathed Putin gets all the credit.

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[FRes Hibbie]

It's been brought up by at least one Tory MP. Most people in their right mind would realise that boycotting it would make no statement or difference whatsoever. FIFA would just replace England with Italy and the rest of the world wouldn't notice.

[Jim44]

Everyday the tension seems to be ratcheted up between Britain and Russia. We’ve had the foreign secretary(who admittedly is an idiot) likening the World Cup to the 1936 olympics in nazi Germany. Will there be a united front from European countries? I don’t want to get into the politics of this, more interested to know if people think that a boycott is a possibility, or even switching it to another country.

I don’t think there will be a boycott, especially from European countries. With Brexit, I don’t think our relationship with them is all it might be and they won’t cut off their noses, economically or in principle, to spite their faces, just because Russia has kicked us in the balls, metaphorically speaking.

[hibsbollah]

Has there been any proof of who did it yet? I haven't been keeping up.

I hope there isn't a boycott. What would happen to the already printed Panini album for a start? :grr:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think the Russians will roll out the red carpet for the English - really go over the top with the hospitality and make a big deal of all the efforts they go to in protecting them. It's great PR for them, and if the English go home unscathed Putin gets all the credit.

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Even before this latest spat between the UK and Russia I thought this would be the case. The Russians do not want to leave the rest of the world thinking they cant control a few hooligans and IMO anybody considered a danger to that would have been removed from the picture for the duration of the tournament.

If the English fans did end up being attacked the Russian government would be open to accusations of encouraging it under the current state of affairs, never mind being too incompetent to police their hooligans. From that POV the England fans are probably even safer than they were, not in more danger, because even though Putin clearly doesn't give a toss what the rest of the world thinks of his actions what he does care about is looking weak and a failure to protect fans from hooliganism at such a prestigious event would make him look just that.

Will England boycott the tournament? ......... not a chance.

[Lancs Harp]

Everyday the tension seems to be ratcheted up between Britain and Russia. We’ve had the foreign secretary(who admittedly is an idiot) likening the World Cup to the 1936 olympics in nazi Germany. Will there be a united front from European countries? I don’t want to get into the politics of this, more interested to know if people think that a boycott is a possibility, or even switching it to another country.

Wouldnt have thought that would go down too well in a country that fought the Nazis and lost 20 million people in the process.

[majorhibs]

Nonsensical wee sun reading UK residents, you heard it here 1st, the rest of the world barely kens where that rubbish weather brexit foolish wee self centred island is, never mind being big time worried wether engerlund actually show up to the World Cup or not!

[Sir David Gray]

It's a disgrace it was awarded to Russia in the first place but there's no way there will be a boycott.

[MGmick]

It's been brought up by at least one Tory MP. Most people in their right mind would realise that boycotting it would make no statement or difference whatsoever. FIFA would just replace England with Italy and the rest of the world wouldn't notice.

While I agree that boycotting would make no difference to the tournament I feel it would definitely make a statement. Sometimes the thoughts and impressions of others is not the only reason to do something. Sometimes, knowing you've done "the right thing" is the reward.

I don't think there are many people who don't believe the award of the tournament was, in any way, fair and honest. That's one example of Russia's disregard for the rest of the world. We also have the military annexing of Crimea, shooting down the Malaysian airliner to discredit Ukraine and the nerve agent attack. Those are just three examples of Russia's complete disregard for international law, there are many others.

I believe, to be entitled to any feeling of self respect, we (I mean Britain) need to make a statement and say far queue Putin we've had enough of your bullying tactics, we are not your friends and we want nothing to do with you unless you change your policy's. Of course it will change nothing in the short term but somebody has to be the first to stand up and say no.

There is a saying that goes "evil triumphs when good men do nothing". Read some history and you'll see the truth in that.

This is about so much more than just a football tournament.

[Allant1981]

Nonsensical wee sun reading UK residents, you heard it here 1st, the rest of the world barely kens where that rubbish weather brexit foolish wee self centred island is, never mind being big time worried wether engerlund actually show up to the World Cup or not!

you really do spout some rubbish on here

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldnt have thought that would go down too well in a country that fought the Nazis and lost 20 million people in the process.The same Russia that boycotted the same Olympics, whilst Britain took part. [emoji849]

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[One Day Soon]

Nonsensical wee sun reading UK residents, you heard it here 1st, the rest of the world barely kens where that rubbish weather brexit foolish wee self centred island is, never mind being big time worried wether engerlund actually show up to the World Cup or not!

I don't know how you would test these things but I'd be willing to bet that in any global geography test the UK would easily finish top ten if not top five of countries that people every where could find on a map. The history (good and bad), the soft power of music/entertainment/literature, global brands like Royal Family/Golf/Whisky, the universal language and a lot more besides guarantee that.

[bingo70]

When I first read the title of this thread I assumed it was about the price increase of the panini stickers for this years World Cup.

[Mantis Toboggan]

No one is going to boycott the world cup. Would be completely pointless.

[Springbank]

As others have pointed out here: there is as yet zero evidence that Russia was involved in the Salisbury attack.

I understand the poison (the weapon) was originally designed by Russia.

But if you were chibbed by someone using a Swiss army knife do we declare war on the Swiss army??

I for one am glad we have a far fairer and more civilised (and legal) approach to life in Scotland. I'd hate to live in the rUK

[hibsbollah]

When I first read the title of this thread I assumed it was about the price increase of the panini stickers for this years World Cup.

I know. 16p per sticker up from 10p last time. It's scandalous. I'm not sure if I can boycott Panini though. Our completed 2014 album is a piece of art.

[jgl07]

well i'm proud that my beloved Scotland have already boycotted the WC in russia, if only engerlund had the guts/morals to do the same

p.s. no participating country will boycott :)
Obviously. If they were boycotting they would not be participating.

A ‘lucky loser’ would be called up in place of an absentee.

Denmark didn’t qualify for a European Championship held in Sweden in the 1990s. Then Yugoslavia were expelled for no longer actually existing (or some such). Denmark were called up and won the event!

[PeeJay]

As others have pointed out here: there is as yet zero evidence that Russia was involved in the Salisbury attack.



It is simply not true to claim there is "zero" evidence - evidence is there and there is no other plausible explanation or do you have one?

The EU is recalling its ambassador to Moscow and diplomats may well be recalled too, I don't quite see how you can claim that all this happening on the basis of "zero evidence" ?

[hibsbollah]

It is simply not true to claim there is "zero" evidence - evidence is there and there is no other plausible explanation or do you have one?

The EU is recalling its ambassador to Moscow and diplomats may well be recalled too, I don't quite see how you can claim that all this happening on the basis of "zero evidence" ?







There's plenty of circumstantial evidence. That's rightly enough to lead to questions being asked of Russia. There is no hard evidence, and certainly no proof.

[Hibrandenburg]

Scotland have boycotted every World Cup after 1998, when Blatter arrived.

We are now continuing that noble position by boycotting Russia, and presumably the Qatar finals

Makes me proud to be Scottish :greengrin


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As for England, they quite obviously have no morals



https://i2.wp.com/thesefootballtimes.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/england.jpg?resize=1400%2C892&ssl=1


:tee hee:

[Salisbury Hibby]

There's plenty of circumstantial evidence. That's rightly enough to lead to questions being asked of Russia. There is no hard evidence, and certainly no proof.No hard evidence made public. You don't know and I don't know. But I don't think the UK Government would be playing a game of call my bluff with the Russians if they didn't have any.

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[PeeJay]

There's plenty of circumstantial evidence. That's rightly enough to lead to questions being asked of Russia. There is no hard evidence, and certainly no proof.

As you say there is plenty of circumstantial evidence - that alone disproves the belief that there is "zero evidence" - you seem to be implying that circumstantial evidence is not as valid as hard evidence or "proof" - that is not the case either in legalistic terms and practise ...

All the circumstantial evidence points to one plausible explanation only ... there may well be further "hard" evidence of a sensitive nature that cannot be made public at this time -

[hibsbollah]

As you say there is plenty of circumstantial evidence - that alone disproves the belief that there is "zero evidence" - you seem to be implying that circumstantial evidence is not as valid as hard evidence or "proof" - that is not the case either in legalistic terms and practise ...

All the circumstantial evidence points to one plausible explanation only ... there may well be further "hard" evidence of a sensitive nature that cannot be made public at this time -




Im not 'implying' circumstantial evidence isn't as valid as hard evidence, or 'proof', it's absolutely obvious! It should also be obvious that until you do have proof that can be corroborated, by public opinion and, crucially, under international law, you keep your mouth shut, as this Government has do spectacularly failed to do. No evidence has been presented to the UN authorities, just trial by media. Its a joke.

[hibsbollah]

No hard evidence made public. You don't know and I don't know. But I don't think the UK Government would be playing a game of call my bluff with the Russians if they didn't have any.

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This sounds ominously like the WMD defence all over again.

[One Day Soon]

Im not 'implying' circumstantial evidence isn't as valid as hard evidence, or 'proof', it's absolutely obvious! It should also be obvious that until you do have proof that can be corroborated, by public opinion and, crucially, under international law, you keep your mouth shut, as this Government has do spectacularly failed to do. No evidence has been presented to the UN authorities, just trial by media. Its a joke.


That's going to be quite a precedent for burden of proof, at UN level and in the court of public opinion (incidentally the last place I would want to measure proof), to be applied in every single case involving, Israel, Turkey, the US, China or indeed anyone else where criminality, abuse of human rights or just plain allegations of rogue behaviour are concerned. Particularly if everyone is to keep their 'mouth shut' until such proof is furnished. Even more so if in any given circumstance a swift intervention is required.

[One Day Soon]

This sounds ominously like the WMD defence all over again.

Except that the independent Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons have been called in. So instead of relying solely on intelligence assessments there is going to be scientific analysis to prove what everyone already knows.

[CropleyWasGod]

This sounds ominously like the WMD defence all over again.

For me, it feels more like the Thatcher/Falklands situation.

Government struggling....foreign nasties do something questionable.... government starts drums and whips up jingoism.... domestic struggles put to one side.

[PeeJay]

Im not 'implying' circumstantial evidence isn't as valid as hard evidence, or 'proof', it's absolutely obvious! It should also be obvious that until you do have proof that can be corroborated, by public opinion and, crucially, under international law, you keep your mouth shut, as this Government has do spectacularly failed to do. No evidence has been presented to the UN authorities, just trial by media. Its a joke.

Corroborated by public opinion? Since when was rule of law a matter for corroboration by public opinion? :confused:

[hibsbollah]

analysis to prove what everyone already knows.

:dunno: if everyone already knows what happened, what's the point of getting inspectors in, even 2 weeks late? Maybe there shouldn't be any burden of proof at all?

[hibsbollah]

Corroborated by public opinion? Since when was rule of law a matter for corroboration by public opinion? :confused:

I assume youve misread what I said. Read it again.

[One Day Soon]

:dunno: if everyone already knows what happened, what's the point of getting inspectors in, even 2 weeks late? Maybe there shouldn't be any burden of proof at all?

Because the Russians, apologists for the Russians and people who wish to presume their innocence until guilt is proven all demand hard scientific evidence to supplement the vast circumstantial evidence, before variously either continuing to deny it anyway or finally accepting what the evidence incontrovertibly demonstrates.

So this clearly isn't "a WMD defence all over again".

[One Day Soon]

Forgot to post in answer to the OP. No, there won't be a boycott but there certainly should be.

[hibsbollah]

Because the Russians, apologists for the Russians and people who wish to presume their innocence until guilt is proven all demand hard scientific evidence to supplement the vast circumstantial evidence, before variously either continuing to deny it anyway or finally accepting what the evidence incontrovertibly demonstrates.

So this clearly isn't "a WMD defence all over again".

I think it's highly unlikely that any hard evidence will be found that will point to Putin or the Russian government. Unless there's a handwritten post it note saying 'kill that spy felly and wash the nerve agent off your handsaftwerwards, thanks again Vladimir'. Whoever did it will be the best in the world at what they do and will have covered their tracks very well.

[Billy Whizz]

Money talks, can’t see countries pulling out if their likely to get payments in excess of £20million

[hibsbollah]

Paddy Power giving 10/1 on England boycotting if anyone fancies it.

[PeeJay]

I assume you've misread what I said. Read it again.

"It should also be obvious that until you do have proof that can be corroborated, by public opinion and, crucially, under international law, you keep your mouth shut, ..."


I not quite sure how I have "misread" what you posted - you clearly state that "... until you have proof that can be corroborated by public opinion ..."

Public opinion does not determine if proof is acceptable or not - as I say, not sure how I have have misunderstood you (apart from a certain time pressure acting on me and maybe the fact I've been here in Germany too long, maybe you could help me out ... :greengrin)

In an open and transparent society such as the democratic UK, it is surely OK for news regarding a major incident such as this one to be put into the public domain, unlike in Russia where public opinion is determined by what Putin wants it to be at any given time ...

[Pretty Boy]

Any boycott, which their won't be, should focus on Putins appaling attitude towards human rights, civil liberties and political freedoms.

The political point scoring over the Salisbury incident is far more worthy of discussion than any of the above in most peoples eyes though.

[hibsbollah]

"It should also be obvious that until you do have proof that can be corroborated, by public opinion and, crucially, under international law, you keep your mouth shut, ..."


I not quite sure how I have "misread" what you posted - you clearly state that "... until you have proof that can be corroborated by public opinion ..."

Public opinion does not determine if proof is acceptable or not - as I say, not sure how I have have misunderstood you (apart from a certain time pressure acting on me and maybe the fact I've been here in Germany too long, maybe you could help me out ... :greengrin)

In an open and transparent society such as the democratic UK, it is surely OK for news regarding a major incident such as this one to be put into the public domain, unlike in Russia where public opinion is determined by what Putin wants it to be at any given time ...


The key quote which you missed is, 'crucially, under international law' the accusation has to be corroborated before you assume guilt and accuse. The very basis of modern standards of law is that the fact of guilt has to be proven before you demand punishment.

(being seen to be doing the right thing is also important, which is why I mentioned public opinion).

Some people seem to be admitting that a) there's no proof of guilt but b) we're going to punish anyway. Which is a bit self defeating if you want a notorious tyrant like Putin to become more respectful of the rule of law, no?

Icant wait for the world cup, always look forward to it massively.

[hibsbollah]

Any boycott, which their won't be, should focus on Putins appaling attitude towards human rights, civil liberties and political freedoms.

The political point scoring over the Salisbury incident is far more worthy of discussion than any of the above in most peoples eyes though.

They're probably both worthy of discussion. But ones relevant to the OP about a possible boycott and one isn't. It's not political point scoring, it's about facts :dunno:

[Pretty Boy]

They're probably both worthy of discussion. But ones relevant to the OP about a possible boycott and one isn't. It's not political point scoring, it's about facts :dunno:

A lot of the discussion comes down to point scoring. Perception of the facts or otherwise changes to suit a viewpoint. I'd wager if Donald Trump or Raul Castro, as examples, where in Putins seat you could flip a lot of the arguments being put forward.

[PeeJay]

The key quote which you missed is, 'crucially, under international law' the accusation has to be corroborated before you assume guilt and accuse. The very basis of modern standards of law is that the fact of guilt has to be proven before you demand punishment.

(being seen to be doing the right thing is also important, which is why I mentioned public opinion).

Some people seem to be admitting that a) there's no proof of guilt but b) we're going to punish anyway. Which is a bit self defeating if you want a notorious tyrant like Putin to become more respectful of the rule of law, no?

Icant wait for the world cup, always look forward to it massively.

I didn't miss the "international law" bit, that was OK by me - the public opinion bit wasn't ...

As to the World Cup - I'm in Germany, what can I say :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

A lot of the discussion comes down to point scoring. Perception of the facts or otherwise changes to suit a viewpoint. I'd wager if Donald Trump or Raul Castro, as examples, where in Putins seat you could flip a lot of the arguments being put forward.

That sounds like you're accusing me of double standards, which if so isnt very fair. I'd be equally interested to see proof of guilt before jumping to conclusions in all situations,regardless of who's involved.

[Pretty Boy]

That sounds like you're accusing me of double standards, which if so isnt very fair. I'd be equally interested to see proof of guilt before jumping to conclusions in all situations,regardless of who's involved.

I'm not accsuing anyone of anything.

People see the world through their own eyes and perceive things accordingly. If it is an accusation then I'd level it at myself just as readily as I would at anyone else.

[O'Rourke3]

If I were going to boycott I'd fly out and prepare, then not show up. Then Italy could not be flown in... Not that that will happen. Technically GB&NI didn't show up at the Moscow Olympics either although a lot of our athletes did.

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[SChibs]

The same world cup the England players all did a nazi salute at.

Also the same world cup the USSR boycotted

[SChibs]

It is simply not true to claim there is "zero" evidence - evidence is there and there is no other plausible explanation or do you have one?

The EU is recalling its ambassador to Moscow and diplomats may well be recalled too, I don't quite see how you can claim that all this happening on the basis of "zero evidence" ?







Put it this way if your country seemingly is the only country to have a certain weapon it's not the weapon you would use to try and kill someone discreetly. Russia were framed quite obviously.

[jgl07]

Also the same world cup the USSR boycotted
There is some rubbish being talked on here.

Germany never hosted a World Cup in the Nazi era.

In any event England ‘boycotted’ all pre war World Cups in Uruguay, Italy and France.

[Betty Boop]

Cannae blame the Russians for the 90 arrests at last night's match. Maybe England should get their own house in order re the behaviour of their fans.

[CropleyWasGod]

Also the same world cup the USSR boycottedThey boycotted the Olympics in 36. They rarely played any football matches at that time.

The Nazi salute was in 38, before a friendly.

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[MGmick]

Cannae blame the Russians for the 90 arrests at last night's match. Maybe England should get their own house in order re the behaviour of their fans.

I don't think it's the Russian fans that are the issue here. I think it, or should be, the actions of the Russian state and it's "organs".
(Solzhenitsyn readers ken whit's whit.)

[cad]

Forgot to post in answer to the OP. No, there won't be a boycott but there certainly should be.

Yeah thats how I see it ,its the fact they got the WC, Blatter ,FIFA , UEFA ,tickets purloined,top officials at the madam the list goes on and on.


You could talk about the Aids program in South Africa when it was held there,and how it failed to help the masses the total corruption from start to finish ,that prick Blatter and then South African President THabo Mbeki had already managed to sift $10 million between them it was intended for the Centre Of Excellence in the Caribbean which was owned by Jack Warner remember him FBI racketeering dawn raids holed up in a hotel the list goes on .


Brazil public money spent on white elephant stadiums peoples homes bulldozed so they could be built ,remember the 12 cities in Brazil that clashed with the police because of misappropriated funds remember the road that collapsed they built to save time to get to and from the stadium the guy incharge was at a big party getting a pat on the back for his efforts when it collapsed .


God knows what Putin and the top jolly in Qatar did to assist in gaining a vote , apparently on his deathbed Julio Grondona told a witness he was due 1 million for his vote dont know if he collected tho ,you wait 4 years for a World Cup this one more than most just doesnt work for me .

[Mikey]

Cannae blame the Russians for the 90 arrests at last night's match. Maybe England should get their own house in order re the behaviour of their fans.

England fans who do that in Russia will be in jail for a very long time. Putin will see to that.

[GreenOnions]

There's a heck of a lot of speculation on here about what the Russian government might have done.

IMHO the whole point about a proper system of justice is that it is based on fact and not speculation or assumption. That is one of the components required for an objective process.

We've had far too many instances in the past of miscarriages of justice as a result of the old "we know he's done it but we just can't prove it" approach leading to abuse of process. Do we never learn?

Although it appears unlikely to me that they would commit a crime in such a way as to guarantee any accusing fingers are pointed immediately at them I have no idea whether the Russian govt was involved or not. Neither does anyone on here.

Should we not use our own principles of due process and objectivity at all times instead of just when the outcome matches our own unqualified assessments?

There's also a whole other argument about "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" that maybe applies to nation states too but that's a whole different debate!

[snooky]

I'm definitely not going for one. :cb

[One Day Soon]

Put it this way if your country seemingly is the only country to have a certain weapon it's not the weapon you would use to try and kill someone discreetly. Russia were framed quite obviously.

Yeah, 'obviously'. :confused:

[Forza Fred]

No one is going to boycott the world cup. Would be completely pointless.

I’m boycotting it, so your statement is factually incorrect.

The bit about it being pointless is correct though.😉