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sauzee6_2
17-03-2018, 11:10 PM
Given all this talk about poor referring decisions coupled with the increasingly litigious nature of modern society - how long is it until a club sues their governing body.

Taking Hibs alone, we were robbed of 2 points at tynie with Ollie Shaws Ďgoalí, coupled with being denied a clear penalty against Sevco, not to mention the penalty given against us vs Killie.

Now assuming the goal was (correctly) given at tynie, we scored the penalty against Sevco and went onto draw the game, maintained our lead and went into gain 3 points against Killie - we would be 3 points clear in second place.

This is not a huge assumption to make - indeed is probable given statistics. Yet in reality we sit 4 points behind Aberdeen and 6 behind Sevco - all based on poor refereeing decisions.

So my point is.... where the season to finish now we could potentially miss out on millions of pounds, through no fault of our own - who is to blame?

As the governing body surely the SFA & SPFL are wide open to legal action by supplying sub standard officials.

With this in mind surely one club is going to set a precedent and sue their governing body. Iím not suggesting itís a good thing, but surely this is not a million miles away???🤯

Forza Fred
18-03-2018, 12:44 AM
Given all this talk about poor referring decisions coupled with the increasingly litigious nature of modern society - how long is it until a club sues their governing body.

Taking Hibs alone, we were robbed of 2 points at tynie with Ollie Shaws Ďgoalí, coupled with being denied a clear penalty against Sevco, not to mention the penalty given against us vs Killie.

Now assuming the goal was (correctly) given at tynie, we scored the penalty against Sevco and went onto draw the game, maintained our lead and went into gain 3 points against Killie - we would be 3 points clear in second place.

This is not a huge assumption to make - indeed is probable given statistics. Yet in reality we sit 4 points behind Aberdeen and 6 behind Sevco - all based on poor refereeing decisions.

So my point is.... where the season to finish now we could potentially miss out on millions of pounds, through no fault of our own - who is to blame?

As the governing body surely the SFA & SPFL are wide open to legal action by supplying sub standard officials.

With this in mind surely one club is going to set a precedent and sue their governing body. Iím not suggesting itís a good thing, but surely this is not a million miles away???🤯

I could be wrong (again), but I think such action would contravene long standing FIFA rules, and lead to possible expulsion.

Sauzee16
18-03-2018, 01:13 AM
Never.

sauzee6_2
18-03-2018, 01:39 AM
Never.

Why not?

Itís common practice in business - when an individual is responsible for significant losses, the company seeks to offset their losses in a court of law.

Why should football be any different??

jodjam
18-03-2018, 02:18 AM
Initially it looks a silly question however imagine a goal that doesnít cross the line or a clear dive leading to a penalty that relegates a team from the horrors that is the EPL and a rich owner may decide to go for it

NAE NOOKIE
18-03-2018, 02:32 AM
Why not?

Itís common practice in business - when an individual is responsible for significant losses, the company seeks to offset their losses in a court of law.

Why should football be any different??

Its simple. Every decision is open to the interpretation of the referee, the rules of the game tell the ref what is an infringement or a foul ... its up to the ref to make a judgment call regarding whether or not any action constitutes foul play within these rules and if it does the severity of it ... IE should he simply give a free kick, award a penalty or issue a yellow or red card.

The first thing any court of law would have to consider in order to conduct a fair hearing is the absolute fact that referees are human beings and are subject to errors and even incompetence and that as human beings they cant and wont share the same opinion as to what is and isn't a deliberate handball for example in the split second they have to make that decision.

Under these conditions you would have to prove conclusively that the referee was deliberately biased against your team or even cheating for some sort of personal or financial gain .... lets look at 3 examples:

Oli Shaw's goal at Tynecastle .... can you conclusively prove that the ref or his assistant saw the ball cross the line? and being mindful that they must be positive to give a goal ... no you cant .... strike one.

Ryan Porteous hand ball at Rugby Park .... any competent defence advocate could come up with an hour long film of penalties being awarded for similar incidents in a hundred games .... strike two

The foul on John McGinn on Friday ..... same as with the penalty its a piece of piss to produce hours of film of only a yellow being given for similar or even worse challenges in the middle of the park .... strike three.

For every incident we have a grievance over evidence can be provided showing that a hundred refs in a hundred games have made the same decision against a team that wasn't Hibernian FC. I don't know if you can remember the first leg of the AEK Athens game, but as I recall they were denied a perfectly good goal that was about a foot and a half over the line before the ball was cleared ... It doesn't always go against you. In fact check out your cup final DVD .... I have seen penalties given for less than Lewis Stevenson's hands on the back of Waghorn as he burst towards the byline.

In order to bring a successful court case against the SFA / SPFL for loss of income, trophies, or a European place it wouldn't be enough for Hibs to come up with a pile of evidence showing that refs consistently got stuff wrong in games involving us ... we would have to prove that it wasn't just incompetence or poor judgment but that refs were, as I said, biased in games involving us for either personal or financial gain, or even more outlandish, as part of some sort of SFA / SPFL conspiracy and take my word for it, that's impossible.

We would get laughed out of court and I couldn't think of a worse way for Hibs to waste thousands of pounds of the clubs money .... not to mention the fact that ( as another poster said ) FIFA and probably UEFA would come down on us so hard we would be lucky to be allowed to enter a team into the 5 a sides down the local park.

Should we continue to put pressure on the SFA and SPFL for what is clearly a shocking run of rubbish decisions from incompetent refs which are blighting our season? .... absolutely. Could or should we make a court case out of it? ..... not in a million years.

southern hibby
18-03-2018, 03:23 AM
Ok letís take it one stage further.

The tackle on McGinn was way beyond a professional foul it was reckless and endearing a players health and safety, yet no red. So under health and safety rules every employer has a duty and responsibility to take All necessary action to protect their employees. Itís the law, thereís no escaping it.

So bearing this in mind, what would happen if letís say NL took his team of the Park after the challenge because that player was still on the Park to do this again to any player he fancies doing it to? NL then said he had a responsibility to protect his employees by law. Imagine the mayhem this would cause with FAís around the globe if it was upheld.

I know itís all hyperthetical but so was the Bosman ruling until he took it to court and won.

GGTTH

Scooter
18-03-2018, 06:27 AM
I think it might happen one day. But I will require a massive club and a super strong rich owner. As it's a massive can of worms. I'm sure the FA(Whatever one it is) can disapline said club as it's "brining the game into disrepute"

jgl07
18-03-2018, 07:25 AM
Initially it looks a silly question however imagine a goal that doesnít cross the line or a clear dive leading to a penalty that relegates a team from the horrors that is the EPL and a rich owner may decide to go for it

But the former will not happen in the EPL because they have goal line technology.

It is a silly question.

Niffy
18-03-2018, 07:32 AM
This assumes weíve never had a soft ref descision go our way.
Most managers say over the course of a season things even out.

Ozyhibby
18-03-2018, 07:35 AM
This assumes weíve never had a soft ref descision go our way.
Most managers say over the course of a season things even out.

Do you thinks thatís happened with us the last two years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JimBHibees
18-03-2018, 07:51 AM
This assumes weíve never had a soft ref descision go our way.
Most managers say over the course of a season things even out.

Except of course it doesn't the only managers that say that are the ones getting the decisions, I think Walter Smith used to say it quite a lot. There is going back years a catalogue of decisions which haven't gone our way. You just need to look at derbies the numerous retrospective red cards, 2 clear goals a 5 yard onside goal not given in a game crucial to preserving our league status, the cup final clear as day red card then a penalty clearly outside the box and a red card for us.

On the other hand if they did even themselves out you would be able to list all the big decisions which may have been wrong which went our way, l am honestly struggling to think of one.

highland hibbee
18-03-2018, 08:12 AM
Ok letís take it one stage further.

The tackle on McGinn was way beyond a professional foul it was reckless and endearing a players health and safety, yet no red. So under health and safety rules every employer has a duty and responsibility to take All necessary action to protect their employees. Itís the law, thereís no escaping it.

So bearing this in mind, what would happen if letís say NL took his team of the Park after the challenge because that player was still on the Park to do this again to any player he fancies doing it to? NL then said he had a responsibility to protect his employees by law. Imagine the mayhem this would cause with FAís around the globe if it was upheld.

I know itís all hyperthetical but so was the Bosman ruling until he took it to court and won.

GGTTH


i suspect your scenario is the closest to a possibility. As you say there is a duty to protect your employees and if the referee is not deemed to be doing so then to remove your team from the pitch could be seen as fair and justifiable. And also wholly defensible in any court.

SChibs
18-03-2018, 08:15 AM
The thing is after something like a goal or a penalty the whole series of events that stems from that is completely different. There's nothing to say if shaws goal had stood we wouldn't have got beaten 3-1?

mjhibby
18-03-2018, 08:20 AM
Initially it looks a silly question however imagine a goal that doesnít cross the line or a clear dive leading to a penalty that relegates a team from the horrors that is the EPL and a rich owner may decide to go for it

I think it's inevitable this will happen especially if its a clearly wrong decision. You can't stop someone going to court you can only deal with them after the legal process has been exhausted or the fa would be seen to be above the law. Would be an interesting test case.

green day
18-03-2018, 08:41 AM
If it was going to happen, surely the new club would done it already for some made up reason?

highland hibbee
18-03-2018, 08:47 AM
Ok letís take it one stage further.

The tackle on McGinn was way beyond a professional foul it was reckless and endearing a players health and safety, yet no red. So under health and safety rules every employer has a duty and responsibility to take All necessary action to protect their employees. Itís the law, thereís no escaping it.

So bearing this in mind, what would happen if letís say NL took his team of the Park after the challenge because that player was still on the Park to do this again to any player he fancies doing it to? NL then said he had a responsibility to protect his employees by law. Imagine the mayhem this would cause with FAís around the globe if it was upheld.

I know itís all hyperthetical but so was the Bosman ruling until he took it to court and won.

GGTTH


i suspect your scenario is the closest to a possibility. As you say there is a duty to protect your employees and if the referee is not deemed to be doing so then to remove your team from the pitch could be seen as fair and justifiable. And also wholly defensible in any court.

StevieCowan
18-03-2018, 08:55 AM
I honestly cannot believe some of the stuff on this thread.. youíd have thought that an attempt hadnít been made on McGinnís life and that we have never benefited from a decision this season.

Hereís some right of the top if my head

Stokes not being given a 2nd yellow at Ibrox
Kamberiís goal v Motherwell where Boyle jumped over the ball
Ross County equaliser wrongly called offside at Easter Rd

There is no conspiracy against Hibs.

duffers
18-03-2018, 09:05 AM
We have had some terrible decisions against us this season but this is just silly. Our referees are just S***e. No conspiracy and as others have said, we have had some other decisions go our way. I think a better approach would be to try and get back the referees from Malta or wherever it was.

Fuzzywuzzy
18-03-2018, 09:15 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/l1J9IY...u2c0/giphy.gif

This was dealt with leniently as well was it not. Another that could have seriously injured sjm

matty_f
18-03-2018, 10:44 AM
Isn't there something in the rules about not taking the governing body to court? Seem to remember something about this from around the time Rangers died.

Northernhibee
18-03-2018, 10:54 AM
I honestly cannot believe some of the stuff on this thread.. youíd have thought that an attempt hadnít been made on McGinnís life and that we have never benefited from a decision this season.

Hereís some right of the top if my head

Stokes not being given a 2nd yellow at Ibrox
Kamberiís goal v Motherwell where Boyle jumped over the ball
Ross County equaliser wrongly called offside at Easter Rd

There is no conspiracy against Hibs.

Yep. Bang on the button.

WeeRussell
18-03-2018, 11:00 AM
I honestly cannot believe some of the stuff on this thread.. youíd have thought that an attempt hadnít been made on McGinnís life and that we have never benefited from a decision this season.

Hereís some right of the top if my head

Stokes not being given a 2nd yellow at Ibrox
Kamberiís goal v Motherwell where Boyle jumped over the ball
Ross County equaliser wrongly called offside at Easter Rd

There is no conspiracy against Hibs.

Exactly. The sort of stuff we would be pishing ourselves laughing over if it was on kickback... and frankly the sort of stuff that belongs there.

Half of us think a yellow was correct for challenge on McGinn, yet we should be taking the SFA to court about the challenge??!!

If we donít want compared to those a****oles from the West, we could do worse than stop all this nonsense.

lyonhibs
18-03-2018, 02:25 PM
What a load of tiresome pish. Suing the governing body over a shoddy decision or 2??!? 😂😂😂

Ludicrous chat, all teams would be chapping at the Hampden door, serving writs every week or 2 😂😂

sauzee6_2
18-03-2018, 09:14 PM
😂😂😂😂ha ha ha ha....only a discussion topic chaps, there seem to be a good few that canít recognise the difference between debate and reality.

This thread isnít about sueing the SFA, it was a hypothetical discussion- hit a few raw nerves!

snooky
18-03-2018, 09:19 PM
Is it not part of the constitution that a club cannot take legal action against the league?

brianmc
18-03-2018, 09:27 PM
Isn't there something in the rules about not taking the governing body to court? Seem to remember something about this from around the time Rangers died.

I'm fairly sure you're correct.
In essence it's part of the Club's Membership conditions that they won't attempt to pursue legal actions against other member Clubs and/or the Governing body based on actions on the field of play

So to answer the OP: If a Club tried to sue a ref or the SFA etc, they'd immediately be booted out of the whole set up .

GreenNWhiteArmy
18-03-2018, 09:47 PM
Never mind suing, imagine the furore from either cheek if even half the decisions (particularly in derby's) over the years happened in their games?

I like to think I'm well balanced but the number of incidents going against us over the course of a season and in derby games seems way in excess of the "it'll even itself out garbage we hear trotted out"

jacomo
18-03-2018, 09:49 PM
Football plays by its own rules.

Disputes go to the Court for Arbitration in Sport, or whatever itís called... who are likely to tell the complainant that their national association, or UEFA, or FIFA, rule supreme.

Blurry Face
18-03-2018, 09:54 PM
I'm fairly sure you're correct.
In essence it's part of the Club's Membership conditions that they won't attempt to pursue legal actions against other member Clubs and/or the Governing body based on actions on the field of play

So to answer the OP: If a Club tried to sue a ref or the SFA etc, they'd immediately be booted out of the whole set up .
What about a supporters group?
the goal that wasn't given must have cost some people money, if the football authorities can issue bans after the game has finished they leave themselves open to criticism for inaction when such an error has been made and is clearly seen on tv.