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Hawick hibee
14-03-2018, 08:14 AM
No way!!! Have to laugh as long as the big 2 from the west are here it'll never go away unfortunately.
The abuse at ibrox especially is up there with the worst a very horrible place to play the only good thing is we pump them there.

The Harp Awakes
14-03-2018, 08:28 AM
No way!!! Have to laugh as long as the big 2 from the west are here it'll never go away unfortunately.
The abuse at ibrox especially is up there with the worst a very horrible place to play the only good thing is we pump them there.

The reason it will never be tackled is that people in positions of power are part of the problem, particularly in the West of Scotland. The SFA, MPs, MSPs, the media, etc, are generally Rangers or Celtic minded so have no interest in resolving the issue. Their clubs feed on sectarianism.

The_Sauz
14-03-2018, 09:31 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43395124

No real surprise this has come out :fuming:

Bostonhibby
14-03-2018, 09:34 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43395124

No real surprise this has come out :fuming:The lunatics are running the asylum and they follow Putins thinking on leadership and continuity.



Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

snooky
14-03-2018, 09:36 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43395124

No real surprise this has come out :fuming:

Like the statement under the photo. "Celtic and Rangers fans been accused of sectarianism IN THE PAST!" (capitals mine).
That's the only time they get mentioned in the article despite the fact that 90% of this nonsense comes from them. Also it's interesting that they have the tricolour dominant in the photo and mention Celtic first - just saying

ronaldo7
14-03-2018, 09:37 AM
The reason it will never be tackled is that people in positions of power are part of the problem, particularly in the West of Scotland. The SFA, MPs, MSPs, the media, etc, are generally Rangers or Celtic minded so have no interest in resolving the issue. Their clubs feed on sectarianism.

As long as they continue to sweep it under the carpet, it gives those wishing to impose strict liability on all clubs the initiative.

That's where we're heading, unless the SFA finally act.

Topographic Hibby
14-03-2018, 09:41 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43395124

No real surprise this has come out :fuming:
I am very surprised it HAS come out. Lots of sweeping under the carpet by many folk, especially the BBC.

Let’s see where this one goes.....

The_Sauz
14-03-2018, 09:42 AM
Who are the 2 other clubs outwith the OF that contribute to sectarianism singing :confused:
The yams have to be one?

My_Wife_Camille
14-03-2018, 09:58 AM
When a national broadcaster is communicating messages like this as if it’s something that adds value to the Scottish game then what chance to we have?
20379

IWasThere2016
14-03-2018, 10:06 AM
I emailed Sturgeon, and got fobbed off (eventually) with a reply to complain to The Polis.

I emailed The Polis ... there has been no reply.

where'stheslope
14-03-2018, 11:09 AM
Who are the 2 other clubs outwith the OF that contribute to sectarianism singing :confused:
The yams have to be one?
Typical media model, name the big 2 and another 2 nameless so all the blame not focused on Glasgow????
It is an easy pick that sectarianism stems in Glasgow, yet the only arrests made for this have been outside Glasgow???
The Police will always say that if they were to try and arrest someone in 1 of their games it would cause a riot, yet they apply the rule out with Glasgow!!!

hibbyfraelibby
14-03-2018, 11:46 AM
I emailed Sturgeon, and got fobbed off (eventually) with a reply to complain to The Polis.

I emailed The Polis ... there has been no reply.
As if she would personally investigate a crime. Get real its a Police matter. Government Law Enforcement and Judiciary need to be independent of each other.

The police are the first problem as they hate investigating these crimes and when they do get one to court the Sheriffs are too lenient. Why? Because Offensive Behaviour act targetted the establishment class and their puppets.

The Harp Awakes
14-03-2018, 12:15 PM
On a related point can someone involved in the 'Show racism the red card' campaign, explain why it is not named 'Show sectarianism the red card' in Scotland?

In my experience we don't have a massive problem in Scotland with racism but we do with sectarianism.

Scott Allan Key
14-03-2018, 12:26 PM
On a related point can someone involved in the 'Show racism the red card' campaign, explain why it is not named 'Show sectarianism the red card' in Scotland?

In my experience we don't have a massive problem in Scotland with racism but we do with sectarianism.

We need both. That Gary MacKay seems to be active in the former campaign, just highlights we do have problems, whatever reformed attitude he might have now.

Hibee87
14-03-2018, 12:31 PM
As if she would personally investigate a crime. Get real its a Police matter. Government Law Enforcement and Judiciary need to be independent of each other.

The police are the first problem as they hate investigating these crimes and when they do get one to court the Sheriffs are too lenient. Why? Because Offensive Behaviour act targetted the establishment class and their puppets.

Surely if the Police are doing nothing, and the powers in charge of the police, the SFA, the judges etc are not doing much then your next step is to go to you MSP? And who better than the top dog? Nothing will of course be done, but I dont see why trying to get our government to act is a bad thing.

GordonHFC
14-03-2018, 12:39 PM
Surely if the Police are doing nothing, and the powers in charge of the police, the SFA, the judges etc are not doing much then your next step is to go to you MSP? And who better than the top dog? Nothing will of course be done, but I dont see why trying to get our government to act is a bad thing.

That will be the current First Minister of Scotland who represents the constituents for Glasgow Govan. Good luck with that one !!!!!

Pretty Boy
14-03-2018, 12:43 PM
So the Police tell the match delegates what to look and listen out for, the delegates report it to the governing body who then do nothing?

The biggest problem isn't solely a football one though. We live in a country in which a celebration of sectarian attitudes among some sections of the population is treated as a cultural extravaganza rather than as what it is. Those who love to counter protest at rallies perceived as Islamophobic or anti Semitic or whatever else go strangely silent in the summer months in Scotland.

If you can get away with it unchallenged in the street why would you expect to be tackled in a football stadium? Football can certainly do more but this is a social problem as much as it is a football one.

matty_f
14-03-2018, 12:46 PM
Football can't sort out sectarianism on its own though - it's a society problem that runs much deeper than simply people identifying themselves with one of three clubs (Sevco, Celtc, Yams).

Hibee87
14-03-2018, 12:50 PM
That will be the current First Minister of Scotland who represents the constituents for Glasgow Govan. Good luck with that one !!!!!

I was replying to another poster who said you should keep the government and judicial system separate and his response of 'why would NS get involved, its a police matter'

I was simply saying when the judicial system and the police are doing nothing then its logical that you would want the government to get involved.
It wont do much good unfortunately as the issue far outreaches football and is seen as part of the scottish 'culture'.

If people of colour were reporting racist songs/abuse and reporting it for nothing to happen, the government would rightly step in and want to know why its being allowed. Why should sectarianism be any different?

The article says 81% of people think its an issue in Scottish football. Thats a high percentage to just simply ignore it no? It amazes me in this day and age it is, as the title says, 'Swept under the carpet'.

The Modfather
14-03-2018, 01:11 PM
I wonder if this is something we could help take a lead on as a support. Could pressure/attention to the subject be raised through official channels like the AGM or supporters reps (assuming the roles haven’t as yet been disbanded) to our very on Vice President at the SFA, Petrie.

Not saying he is solely responsible for this issue, but we have a direct link to someone with influence in the SFA. Could this be one of the times people speak about it being a good thing that have one of our own in at the SFA?

BegbieHSC
14-03-2018, 01:19 PM
The abuse, more often than not, sectarian in nature which Hibernian fans receive at Ibrox is nothing short of despicable. The abuse we got at the cup final in 2016 was horrendous too.

I'm not thin skinned, but these bigoted, racist neanderthals at Ibrox should not be tolerated, and sadly, the SFA and SPFL have been covering up for them for years.

IWasThere2016
14-03-2018, 02:12 PM
As if she would personally investigate a crime. Get real its a Police matter. Government Law Enforcement and Judiciary need to be independent of each other.

The police are the first problem as they hate investigating these crimes and when they do get one to court the Sheriffs are too lenient. Why? Because Offensive Behaviour act targetted the establishment class and their puppets.

The email was sent months ago - just after she commented on religious bigotry on the Telly .. so it only matters to her when a camera is nearby :wink:

snooky
14-03-2018, 02:15 PM
On a related point can someone involved in the 'Show racism the red card' campaign, explain why it is not named 'Show sectarianism the red card' in Scotland?

In my experience we don't have a massive problem in Scotland with racism but we do with sectarianism.

That's why it's not addressed. Too big a target. By contrast, attacking racism is the equivalent of sniping.

Geo_1875
14-03-2018, 02:20 PM
That's why it's not addressed. Too big a target. By contrast, attacking racism is the equivalent of sniping.

The problem is sectarianism is not seen as a problem by those involved in it. It's a way of life for them and any attempt to stop it is seen as an attack on their belief system. They will fight to the death to preserve their way of life, or so the songs tell us.

Jones28
14-03-2018, 02:26 PM
MOTD shared this on Facebook and a quick scan through the commented shows why it will never go away unless serious sanctions are brought in.

***** about it "adding to the matchday experience at an old firm", "it's always been like this" and continual what-abouttery is an indication of the attitudes of significant chunks of both teams supporters.

silverhibee
14-03-2018, 02:34 PM
I was replying to another poster who said you should keep the government and judicial system separate and his response of 'why would NS get involved, its a police matter'

I was simply saying when the judicial system and the police are doing nothing then its logical that you would want the government to get involved.
It wont do much good unfortunately as the issue far outreaches football and is seen as part of the scottish 'culture'.

If people of colour were reporting racist songs/abuse and reporting it for nothing to happen, the government would rightly step in and want to know why its being allowed. Why should sectarianism be any different?

The article says 81% of people think its an issue in Scottish football. Thats a high percentage to just simply ignore it no? It amazes me in this day and age it is, as the title says, 'Swept under the carpet'.


Nicola won't get involved, she has seen the outcome of Salmonds bold statement when he said he would eradicate it from football :rolleyes:

Keith_M
14-03-2018, 02:53 PM
Both Sectarianism and Racism are issues in Scotland. The reason Racism isn't seen as so prevalent is because around 95% of the population are white.

Some people have absolutely appalling attitudes to anyone different to themselves and I've heard comments from some fellow Scots that wouldn't be out of place in a gathering of the BNP, especially in regard to Polish or Romanian people.

That said, at least there is some stigma attached to such attitudes, whereas Sectarianism is completely swept under the carpet.

We have two football clubs whose supporters define themselves by a divide they see in Northern Ireland between Catholic/Nationalist and Protestant/Loyalist; both sides glorying in their respective terrorist groups. These are the two clubs that those in power consider as representing Scotland in the footballing world. Quite depressing, when you think about it.

neil7908
14-03-2018, 03:23 PM
I don't get the repeated use of the word secret in that article.

Can something still be a secret when everyone in the country knows it happens and there are tens of thousands indulging in that behaviour in public, often live on TV, every weekend?

Geo_1875
14-03-2018, 03:43 PM
Nicola won't get involved, she has seen the outcome of Salmonds bold statement when he said he would eradicate it from football :rolleyes:

Why should she, or the SNP, get involved. Both Labour and the Tories in Scotland are up to their necks in sectarianism and used the OBFA as a political football to keep their supporters happy. It's lose/lose for the First Minister.

SirDavidsNapper
14-03-2018, 03:47 PM
Imagine a set of fans were screaming abuse about Muslims for 90 minutes every week. The government would be stepping in. Because its Rangers and Celtic there's nothing to see

Deansy
14-03-2018, 04:16 PM
Like the statement under the photo. "Celtic and Rangers fans been accused of sectarianism IN THE PAST!" (capitals mine).
That's the only time they get mentioned in the article despite the fact that 90% of this nonsense comes from them. Also it's interesting that they have the tricolour dominant in the photo and mention Celtic first - just saying

Noticed that, absolutely pathetic the way our 'media' (Traynors stenographers) adopt a generic approach when it comes to discussing sectarianism, voicing it as if it's a problem that ALL of the clubs have rather than the 2 that are 99% responsible for it !

My own view is that they (GFA,'Old S*um') will never seriously tackle sectarianism because it would cost them far too much in both financial-terms and fan-numbers - without sectarianism the 'Old S*um' would be redundant !

007
14-03-2018, 06:53 PM
Chick Young indulging in a bit of whatabootery just said Hibs and Hearts sing sectarian songs too.

Famous Fiver
14-03-2018, 07:03 PM
Incredible listening to the weasel words from Chick Young.

Refuses to condemn, or even recognise it.

Close the grounds, deduct points, it'll disappear overnight.

where'stheslope
14-03-2018, 07:10 PM
Chick Young indulging in a bit of whatabootery just said Hibs and Hearts sing sectarian songs too.

I've never heard the sound of any Hibs or Hearts songs being turned down by SKY or BT, yet regularly they do it at Celtic and Rangers games.
If they are turning the sound down or muting the singing, it must be deemed offensive, so I would think that SKY and BT could help in trying to put a stop to it rather than sweeping it under the carpet themselves!!!!

007
14-03-2018, 07:23 PM
Incredible listening to the weasel words from Chick Young.

Refuses to condemn, or even recognise it.

Close the grounds, deduct points, it'll disappear overnight.

Now denying mentioning Hibs. He most certainly did, I'll be listening again later to the Podcast.

007
14-03-2018, 07:27 PM
He backtracked and then retracted his comments about us.

hibbyfraelibby
14-03-2018, 07:31 PM
Surely if the Police are doing nothing, and the powers in charge of the police, the SFA, the judges etc are not doing much then your next step is to go to you MSP? And who better than the top dog? Nothing will of course be done, but I dont see why trying to get our government to act is a bad thing.
The SNP at least tried as a minority government but the numpties that are Labour and Tory are courting the respective wings of the bigot vote and have holed the Offensive Behaviour At Football act below the watetline to appeal to respevtive their bigotted followers. Same with Name Person. Protecting their own.

The Scottish Police Authority oversee Police Scotland not the Justice Secretary who was recently accused of acting illegally by stopping a senior police officer accused of bullying being allowed to return to work.

Want to report it aim your email at Susan Deacon or PIRC

we are hibs
14-03-2018, 07:40 PM
didn't that snivelling cretin claim he was retiring after the euros a couple of years ago? why is he still kicking about. he really is a horrible **** of a man

007
14-03-2018, 07:48 PM
The 1000 or so fans that go to Ibrox should record as much as possible on mobile phones and post them on Twitter/Facebook etc and get it out there, hopefully it will go viral.

snooky
14-03-2018, 08:25 PM
The 1000 or so fans that go to Ibrox should record as much as possible on mobile phones and post them on Twitter/Facebook etc and get it out there, hopefully it will go viral.

Make sure you're not driving with your daughter at the same time though. :wink:

Aldo
14-03-2018, 08:35 PM
Chick Young indulging in a bit of whatabootery just said Hibs and Hearts sing sectarian songs too.

If Chick Dung said the Sky was blue and the grass was green I'd check to make sure.

Following his antics at the cup final I wouldn't believe anything he said because he's not capable of opening his trap without spouting... Should we say inaccuracies!

We do not sing any songs that are deemed sectarian and haven't done so for a long long time. If this is what he has said the club need to take this pleb to task!

Kojock
14-03-2018, 09:52 PM
The 1000 or so fans that go to Ibrox should record as much as possible on mobile phones and post them on Twitter/Facebook etc and get it out there, hopefully it will go viral.

The TV cameras clearly picked up thousands singing about Lennon being a Fenian B@5t@rd. Did the SPL/SFA do anything?

marinello59
14-03-2018, 10:02 PM
The SNP at least tried as a minority government but the numpties that are Labour and Tory are courting the respective wings of the bigot vote and have holed the Offensive Behaviour At Football act below the watetline to appeal to respevtive their bigotted followers. Same with Name Person. Protecting their own.

The Scottish Police Authority oversee Police Scotland not the Justice Secretary who was recently accused of acting illegally by stopping a senior police officer accused of bullying being allowed to return to work.

Want to report it aim your email at Susan Deacon or PIRC

The Offensive Behaviour at Football Act was poor legislation that did nothing to tackle sectarian behaviour and only served to demonise football fans. Good riddance to it.

SideBurns
14-03-2018, 10:34 PM
If Chick Dung said the Sky was blue and the grass was green I'd check to make sure.

Following his antics at the cup final I wouldn't believe anything he said because he's not capable of opening his trap without spouting... Should we say inaccuracies!

We do not sing any songs that are deemed sectarian and haven't done so for a long long time. If this is what he has said the club need to take this pleb to task!

Sportsound read out a few tweets (mine amongst them) from Hibbies at the end of the programme, which led to him withdrawing his accusation about "The Hibernian" (as he called us). I noticed he didn't retract the same allegation he made about Hearts but then none of them seemed to complain (or if they did, Sportsound didn't give them air time)...

O'Rourke3
14-03-2018, 10:46 PM
Sportsound read out a few tweets (mine amongst them) from Hibbies at the end of the programme, which led to him withdrawing his accusation about "The Hibernian" (as he called us). I noticed he didn't retract the same allegation he made about Hearts but then none of them seemed to complain (or if they did, Sportsound didn't give them air time)...

Lazy thinking from the hard of , well, thinking Young. The Rangers Celtic, then Hearts and Hibs. Once again throw mud and it'll stick. My money is that there were 4 complaints. The two cheeks, Hearts and Killie who sing about the Killie boys. Easy to make a mistake with that one when you are looking for balance.... In the 11 soldiers of the faith battered by marauding Catholics at Hampden did anyone mention the abuse our manager got on the day?

Deansy
14-03-2018, 10:51 PM
If Chick Dung said the Sky was blue and the grass was green I'd check to make sure.

Following his antics at the cup final I wouldn't believe anything he said because he's not capable of opening his trap without spouting... Should we say inaccuracies!

We do not sing any songs that are deemed sectarian and haven't done so for a long long time. If this is what he has said the club need to take this pleb to task!

Agreed - I really wish that we were more proactive in defending our name !

Tomsk
14-03-2018, 10:53 PM
The SNP at least tried as a minority government but the numpties that are Labour and Tory are courting the respective wings of the bigot vote and have holed the Offensive Behaviour At Football act below the watetline to appeal to respevtive their bigotted followers. Same with Name Person. Protecting their own.

The Scottish Police Authority oversee Police Scotland not the Justice Secretary who was recently accused of acting illegally by stopping a senior police officer accused of bullying being allowed to return to work.

Want to report it aim your email at Susan Deacon or PIRC

The SNP was in government in 2012 when it used its parliamentary majority to pass the act. It did so in the face of unified opposition as the Scottish government got no support from any other party represented in the parliament.

The act is not yet repealed. The repeal bill is currently at stage 3 in the legislative process. Therefore the act is still enforceable, in theory if not in practice.

It is naive in the extreme to believe that the Scottish government, and in particular the offices of the first minister and the justice minister, will allow the Scottish Police Authority to act with impunity on matters relating to the conduct of Police Scotland, especially in such a high-profile instance were the latter are open to accusations of not enforcing the provisions of the act.

In my view, governments should not be 'at least trying'. It is their role to pass effective, robust, practical legislation. It is not good enough to be merely 'trying'.

The OBFA is a poor piece of legislation. Moreover, it has raised some serious questions about the effectiveness of our police forces in Scotland and the relationship between the police and the Scottish government. The police appear to be either unwilling or unable to use the act to enforce public order relating to 'offensive behaviour' -- either way, it ought to be a cause for concern for all of us.

SON OF PADDY
14-03-2018, 10:54 PM
If Chick Dung said the Sky was blue and the grass was green I'd check to make sure.

Following his antics at the cup final I wouldn't believe anything he said because he's not capable of opening his trap without spouting... Should we say inaccuracies!

We do not sing any songs that are deemed sectarian and haven't done so for a long long time. If this is what he has said the club need to take this pleb to task!


Ban him from Easter Road for starters !
This weasel of a man hates our club, he can't open his mouth without telling lies.

007
14-03-2018, 11:46 PM
Lazy thinking from the hard of , well, thinking Young. The Rangers Celtic, then Hearts and Hibs. Once again throw mud and it'll stick. My money is that there were 4 complaints. The two cheeks, Hearts and Killie who sing about the Killie boys. Easy to make a mistake with that one when you are looking for balance.... In the 11 soldiers of the faith battered by marauding Catholics at Hampden did anyone mention the abuse our manager got on the day?

Those are the 4 clubs that immediately sprung to mind for me whereas Young automatically assumed us. He is effing clueless.

snooky
14-03-2018, 11:54 PM
Ban him from Easter Road for starters !
This weasel of a man hates our club, he can't open his mouth without telling lies.

I have first hand knowledge of that.

At the Killie LCF my mate shouted to him that Rangers weren't playing and he snidedly retorted with "I hope you get f****d."

BTW, how did that game turn out again? :hmmm:

monktonharp
15-03-2018, 12:28 AM
I think the first action against sectarianism at football matches in Scotland, needs to begin with action by the SFA by firstly warning clubs that sectarian signing is banned, and liable to incur point deductions, then actually carrying it out. the next action could easily be playing home games behind closed doors. quite simple really , from where I stand. the Scottish Government could oversee this and simply stop tv companies from trying to dilute the audio volumes when this bile is there to Hear, load and clear . only a first step, but it is the start required imho

crewetollhibee
15-03-2018, 12:40 AM
He definitely quoted Hibs fans as participating in sectarian singing. This pandering of myths does nothing to address the problem, if anything it adds to it. Hibs should certainly call him on this; he said it, it’s a statement that should be challenged.

JimBHibees
15-03-2018, 07:41 AM
I think the first action against sectarianism at football matches in Scotland, needs to begin with action by the SFA by firstly warning clubs that sectarian signing is banned, and liable to incur point deductions, then actually carrying it out. the next action could easily be playing home games behind closed doors. quite simple really , from where I stand. the Scottish Government could oversee this and simply stop tv companies from trying to dilute the audio volumes when this bile is there to Hear, load and clear . only a first step, but it is the start required imho

Couldnt agree more unfortunately they dont have the backbone to do this and neither do the clubs which is shameful IMO. Rangers killed it dead when the club started calling the fans out for this however that was before they went bust. The new incarnation and their dodgy custodians dont care and encourage it in many instances.

superfurryhibby
15-03-2018, 07:58 AM
He definitely quoted Hibs fans as participating in sectarian singing. This pandering of myths does nothing to address the problem, if anything it adds to it. Hibs should certainly call him on this; he said it, it’s a statement that should be challenged.

Chick later retracted that statement after the presenter read out a couple of astute comments from Hibs fans that made a mockery of the baldy sycophantic wee fuds assertion.

Even Nil by Mouth perpetrate the myth that Hibs fans sing sectarian nonsense. I contacted them to highlight that their website is inaccurate and they never bothered replying.

Keith_M
15-03-2018, 08:06 AM
The Offensive Behaviour at Football Act was poor legislation that did nothing to tackle sectarian behaviour and only served to demonise football fans. Good riddance to it.


Please explain how it did that.

AndyM_1875
15-03-2018, 08:30 AM
I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH

green day
15-03-2018, 08:48 AM
Chick later retracted that statement after the presenter read out a couple of astute comments from Hibs fans that made a mockery of the baldy sycophantic wee fuds assertion.

Even Nil by Mouth perpetrate the myth that Hibs fans sing sectarian nonsense. I contacted them to highlight that their website is inaccurate and they never bothered replying.

They have good intentions, but even they dont acknowledge its predominantly a west of scotland problem.

When you look at the news section on their website the location of any of their events tells you where the problem lies - Rutherglen, East Dunbartonshire, Coatbridge, Glasgow all on the first page.

Not sure how many Hibs fans live in those areas....................the only time NBM are in Edinburgh is to speak to the Parliament.

Curried
15-03-2018, 09:00 AM
I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH

I think your correct in saying that this cancer is all but gone from the Hibs support......but's its clearly undergoing a sinister resurgence in Glasgow:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-historic-breakthrough/

Kato
15-03-2018, 09:03 AM
I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.


Tom Hart invited the fans who used to start those songs into the board-room and asked that they stop as it "didn't reflect well on the club". It didn't happen over night but eventually, through self-policing by the guys who used to be the perps, those songs stopped being sung.

hibbyfraelibby
15-03-2018, 09:16 AM
Please explain how it did that.

Good question. I've found the people most angry and opposed to the OBFA are exactly the people ir was aimed at in the first place, or their apologists. It doesn't demonise football fans it demonises bigots who hide behind football.

marinello59
15-03-2018, 09:26 AM
Please explain how it did that.

It targets football fans for special treatment with laws that only apply to us. What constitutes offensive behaviour? Whatever the police decide it is.
Do you think the legislation has been effective in combatting sectarian behaviour in the West of Scotland where the problem mainly resides. Sectarian behaviour is not footballs problem to solve, it’s Scottish society’s problem. The Goverment should be tackling the problem at source starting with the Orange Order.

Hermit Crab
15-03-2018, 09:32 AM
I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH


Really??:confused: Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

blackpoolhibs
15-03-2018, 09:33 AM
I'm 15 minutes into this podcast, and while i think Chick Young is a complete bellend, he has said something i completely agree with him on.

He quoted Lex Golds sanction list, and wants the authorities to film the fans and present the evidence then apply those sanctions.

Its the only way to rid football of it, we've tried EVERYTHING else and its not worked.

ronaldo7
15-03-2018, 10:03 AM
It targets football fans for special treatment with laws that only apply to us. What constitutes offensive behaviour? Whatever the police decide it is.
Do you think the legislation has been effective in combatting sectarian behaviour in the West of Scotland where the problem mainly resides. Sectarian behaviour is not footballs problem to solve, it’s Scottish society’s problem. The Goverment should be tackling the problem at source starting with the Orange Order.

What are those who wish to repeal the law, proposing to put in its place?

How is offensive communications now covered?

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/archive/law-order/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill

Brizo
15-03-2018, 10:17 AM
Really??:confused: Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

We are not perfect but have made huge inroads since early 80s when I stood in old East enclosure under the stand and we sang plenty of "rebel" songs like our predecessors before us in the Cave. Yes there are the odd shouts and a minority of mainly young fans will latch onto inappropriate songs because unfortunately that's what young lads do and have been doing since the 1960s. Unlike other clubs whose apologists talk about a "minority" in our case it is a tiny minority.

The Rangers have made no inroads and are unapologetically going backwards while the Celtc away support , particularly Green Brigade,seem to revel in doing stuff the bulk of their home support have given up. A substantial element of the Hertz support seem to have taken a time machine back to the 70s and reopened their sectarian songbook from those days.Apparently a lot of the types doing it were also doing it first time round.

While its right to highlight and call out where our fans do wrong, it shouldn't be overstated , not that I'm saying you are doing that.

Bottom line is that there is no appetite from Scottish politicians, the Scottish media and owners of the aforementioned three clubs to address sectarianism and it will continue to be denial or deflection or at best lip service.

superfurryhibby
15-03-2018, 10:22 AM
I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH


I think that is incorrect. There were plenty rebel songs and anti orange songs being sung at ER at that time. They started dying out in the 90's, long after Tom Hart had gone.

It's not so much the offence at hearing up to your knees in fenian blood or orange bassa, for me it's the underlying factors, the fact that sectarianism is still flourishing in some parts of our society. The Hun hordes are the thin end of a large wedge and we could probably point the finger at many parts of the establishment; Police, Judiciary, local government in places like West Lothian and Lanarkshire.

As a wee aside. The problem with anti catholicism, because that is what it is, isn't confined to the Weedge and surrounding areas. Those archaic attitudes are still found in lodges and the wider community in many parts of Scotland, including Ayrshire, Fife, Lanarkshire and into the Western Isles.

Peevemor
15-03-2018, 10:31 AM
I started going to matches regularly in 1980 and heard plenty 'rebel' songs (more so at away games). They eventually died out because not many people joined in anyway and eventually they were booed/shouted down by more folk than were singing them.

It was very much a case of self-policing.

hibsbollah
15-03-2018, 10:53 AM
Sometimes you have to take back and take a fresh look, maybe from a foreigners perspective, at what kind of country we live in where the kind of sectarianism we have is tolerated, and has been for generations. It honestly makes me ashamed.

AndyM_1875
15-03-2018, 10:57 AM
Really??:confused: Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

Well I hope you picked him up on that because that sort of crap is unacceptable.

And no I haven't heard the Edinburgh song, not since the 80s (even then it was invariably from Jambos), if it's making a comeback then it needs squashed. This is the 21st Century FFS.

SirDavidsNapper
15-03-2018, 11:11 AM
Started watching Hibs in the early 90's and can count on one hand the number of times i've heard sectarian chants from our support. In fact i could probably count it on a couple of fingers. Think i'd just missed the worst of it when i started attending games as my old man said it used to be quite regular.

NAE NOOKIE
15-03-2018, 11:44 AM
Really??:confused: Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

The 'forever and ever' song began to die out in the 80s and I certainly haven't heard it sung since then .. considering that's going on for 30 years now its pretty safe to say its long gone.

The 'Edinburgh' song has been sung twice in my presence .... once on a bus on the way to the Barcelona friendly at which point I stood up and told the silly wee buggers in no uncertain terms that we were on the way to a Hibs game not a KKK rally and to F'ing well cut it out ... to be fair they stopped immediately. The other time was outside Hampden before the semi against Hearts ... there was about 15 of them who didn't look like they would be so reasonable and I wasn't brave enough to challenge them. But since then I haven't heard that sung either in a pub or at an actual game.

You are bang on about the 'Stokes da in the RA' song ...... At this point of the 4 clubs regularly quoted in this issue we are the only one able to justifiably claim a fair amount of moral high ground, we have worked hard ( both club and fans ) to eradicate this embarrassing nonsense from our club, but we put that in danger with songs like that and the Skacel song.

Even if it is a tiny minority the bigot brothers and their media arse lickers will point out that speck in our eye in order to deflect from the log in their own, so if we are to continue to put ourselves forward as an example of what can be achieved we need to stamp out even that tiny minority. Somebody on here said the club should call out Chick Young over what he said ..... Imagine if Leeann Dempster did that and then somebody came up with a film of our daft minority singing the Stokes song from the Partick match .... she and the club would be left with egg on their face.

I don't pretend to know what the solution is to all this. The uglies will continue to bang on about 'cultural songs' and freedom of speech and in the case of Sevco when our authorities still allow orange marches in Scotland's towns and cities every summer they have the ammunition to back it up .. if its legal on the streets, how is it illegal in a stadium? will be their argument.

HibeeHibernian4
15-03-2018, 12:12 PM
Good question. I've found the people most angry and opposed to the OBFA are exactly the people ir was aimed at in the first place, or their apologists. It doesn't demonise football fans it demonises bigots who hide behind football.

It absolutely demonises anybody who you'd consider an "active" fan (ie. singing sections or people who like to stand and sing during a match). Motherwell fans were kettled by police and stewards a few season back, for absolutely no discernible reason.

If you have a spare half an hour, I'd advise you to listen to this podcast: http://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2017-18-episode-28/

It's from about 22 minutes in, going through just how ineffective and illiberal the OBFA actually is.

hibbyfraelibby
15-03-2018, 01:50 PM
It absolutely demonises anybody who you'd consider an "active" fan (ie. singing sections or people who like to stand and sing during a match). Motherwell fans were kettled by police and stewards a few season back, for absolutely no discernible reason.

If you have a spare half an hour, I'd advise you to listen to this podcast: http://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2017-18-episode-28/

It's from about 22 minutes in, going through just how ineffective and illiberal the OBFA actually is.
Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

Pretty Boy
15-03-2018, 02:00 PM
Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

It worked amongst Hibs fans certainly with regards to sectarianism.

Ask the lads in our singing section what they think about the shambolic legislation that is the offensive behavior act. Alternatively look back at the banner they unveiled v St Johnstone at Tynecastle.

marinello59
15-03-2018, 02:16 PM
Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

Self policing worked at our club.