Another one...

[Sylar]

I debated the merits of even starting this thread.

There's no point in another .net debate about gun control. It's well tread ground. Thoughts and prayers are absolutely pointless.

Yet 17 school kids are dead in the USA and all I feel is apathy to a situation that is the norm, and won't ever change.

What a ****ed up world we live in.

[Hibbyradge]

I debated the merits of even starting this thread.



Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.

[Sylar]

Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.

It's soul-destroying, but at the same time, I feel I've grown completely numb to these events. "Oh, another one..." is almost my default setting.

Stepping away from schools, there have been 30 mass shootings already in the US in 2018 - it's only the 15th of Feb!

[Moulin Yarns]

Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.

Some more stats. JUST THIS YEAR, 45 DAYS!!!

USA gun violence stats for 2018. 6,572 incidents. 1826 killed.3142 injured, 69 under 11s killed or injured...2018 - 30 mass shootings so far ; 333 teenagers killed or injured; add to this around 2000 suicides per month

[Smartie]

I'll put a slightly different slant on it.

Our politicians get a lot of grief, much of it deserved.

They deserve credit for the gun controls that were introduced in the wake of the Dunblane massacre.

As long as there are guns in the world (and unfortunately, regrettably there still are uses for guns) there will be the possibility of gun problems and incidents.

But our authorities deserve credit for the fact that we have evolved to a position where we do not have to live with the increased risk of appalling incidents like this happening, which our American friends do have to live with.

I wish they'd get a ******* grip over there.

I absolutely love America and really wish I'd had the opportunity to move there, but the gun laws and Donald Trump are big ticks in the negative column.

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.

It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.

[Sylar]

I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.

It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.

I was going to post something related to Sandy Hook, but then it's just yet another statistic now. If the massacre of so many innocent young children wasn't going to stimulate change, I don't believe there's anything.

It doesn't matter the age, gender, sexuality, religion, colour or political persuasion of the victims - their right to bear arms is far more significant. More guns, not less.

They've had it drilled into them so hard that they're 'entitled' to carry these weapons - that attitude would require generations of work to undo.

The truth is, a large majority of these idiots care more about their own arsenals than they do their own children, loved ones, friends and colleagues.

[Hibee87]

Its horrible, and as we all keep saying, what needs to happen for the majority to start making noises about it?

Within an hour of the shooting last night I seen a video on Youtube that a kid had taken from his phone in a room where the shooter was shooting. I believe it was on CBS news but was taken down due to it being too graphic and upsetting (loud bangs and kids screaming). IMO this video should be on every news channel over their to show what IS happening, not that it would probably do much help.
To make matters worse there was comments on this video saying its another false flag, just like sandy hook, from the left to try and take away our guns. How do you argue with people when this is their automatic mindset within an hour of such a horrible thing?

Again, I dont belive things are going to change but I have (maybe just because i seen news and videos of somthing live that ive never really watched unfold before, social media youtube etc) but a lot of comments form Americans saying 'why is it always the USA where this is happening'? at least some are starting to ask questions, but I suspect a lot of Americans DO ask these questions when such horrific events happen.

[Pretty Boy]

The 'what can we do about it?' and 'why is this happening?' rhetoric is bizarre.

It's not mental health or unarmed teachers or any other reason that is causing this, it's non existent gun control. The weight of evidence when comparing the US to other developed countries with tighter gun control backs that up.

[Hibee87]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_normal.jpgDonald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

Replying to @realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/_/status/963365328716812288)

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
12:12 PM - Feb 15, 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689)



14.5K (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=964110212885106689)

14.1K people are talking about this (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689)






And here is what the president has to say. Words fail me.


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[Pretty Boy]

One NRA member just told me on social media that gun control doesn't work and the only reason we don't have shootings in the UK is because we have armed police in every school.

I'm 99.99999% sure that's incorrect but it sums up the mentality of these people and how they believe 'fake news' when it suits them.

[calumhibee1]

One NRA member just told me on social media that gun control doesn't work and the only reason we don't have shootings in the UK is because we have armed police in every school.

I'm 99.99999% sure that's incorrect but it sums up the mentality of these people and how they believe 'fake news' when it suits them.

It’s utterlly bizarre. They really have no grasp on reality.

[Hibrandenburg]

The 'what can we do about it?' and 'why is this happening?' rhetoric is bizarre.

It's not mental health or unarmed teachers or any other reasob that is causing this, it's non existent gun control. The weight of evidence when comparing the US to other developed countries with tighter gun control backs that up.

I don't buy into this "why does it always happen here?" argument, they know fine well what the problem is and it's obvious that as a nation they love their guns more than they love their children.

[Smartie]

I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.

It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.

He said the right things though.

I honestly think that if there was anything more that he could have done then he would have.

His biggest regret during his time in charge will surely be that he wasn't able to make a bigger impact on the gun lobby.

It is so powerful over there though that even the president struggles to make an impact on it.

At least Obama seemed deeply upset every time he had to go in front of the cameras and attempt to explain the latest mass shooting, and would acknowledge exactly why it seems to keep happening in the USA, unlike the current incumbent.

[McD]

Some more stats. JUST THIS YEAR, 45 DAYS!!!

USA gun violence stats for 2018. 6,572 incidents. 1826 killed.3142 injured, 69 under 11s killed or injured...2018 - 30 mass shootings so far ; 333 teenagers killed or injured; add to this around 2000 suicides per month


These statistics are frightening, soul destroying, and heart breaking. And still the powers that be in states won’t or can’t do anything.

Six and half thousand incidents, in 45 days. It’s actually difficult to comprehend such a scale of hideous acts.

[jonty]

Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.

18 includes a discharge of weapon on school grounds. It doesn't mean an intentional discharge or injury.
http://a.msn.com/01/en-gb/BBJc0JQ?ocid=se

It doesn't alter the fact that one death is one too many. America gets regular wake-up calls on gun violence but do nothing. Its mind boggling.


What is not in dispute is gun violence’s pervasiveness and its devastating impact on children. A recent study of World Health Organization data published in the American Journal of Medicine that found that, among high-income nations, 91 percent of children younger than 15 who were killed by bullets lived in the United States.

And the trends are only growing more dire.

On average, two dozen children are shot every day in the United States, and in 2016 more youths were killed by gunfire — 1,637 — than during any previous year this millennium.

[lapsedhibee]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_normal.jpgDonald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)

Replying to @realDonaldTrump (https://twitter.com/_/status/963365328716812288)

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
12:12 PM - Feb 15, 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689)



14.5K (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=964110212885106689)

14.1K people are talking about this (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689)


And here is what the president has to say. Words fail me.


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*** ker.

[Sir David Gray]

I heard a piece on Five Live tonight driving home from work and it basically posed the question of how many people need to die in a single gun attack before something changes? Does it need to be a major terrorist attack killing hundreds before anything is done?

It's a really interesting question as the time for change really ought to have been many years ago and there's many individual cases over the years which, alone, would have prompted change in most countries. Some of the stats on gun crime in the USA are utterly staggering, even allowing for their large population.

Their attitude to gun possession is unbelievable and whenever something like this happens, the people in charge just seem to bury their heads in the sand and either just ignore it completely or even call for more guns!

My heart goes out to every single friend and relative of the victims of this latest, senseless slaughter but we will be back here in the very near future talking about some other part of the country being the latest place to add itself to the long list of places to fall victim to this scourge of American society.

[Hibrandenburg]

I heard a piece on Five Live tonight driving home from work and it basically posed the question of how many people need to die in a single gun attack before something changes? Does it need to be a major terrorist attack killing hundreds before anything is done?

It's a really interesting question as the time for change really ought to have been many years ago and there's many individual cases over the years which, alone, would have prompted change in most countries. Some of the stats on gun crime in the USA are utterly staggering, even allowing for their large population.

Their attitude to gun possession is unbelievable and whenever something like this happens, the people in charge just seem to bury their heads in the sand and either just ignore it completely or even call for more guns!

My heart goes out to every single friend and relative of the victims of this latest, senseless slaughter but we will be back here in the very near future talking about some other part of the country being the latest place to add itself to the long list of places to fall victim to this scourge of American society.

I think many of those who need to make the decision on a gun ban are terrified of the bloodbath that would more than likely ensue if they tried to enforce it. There would be thousands of incidents similar to Waco all over the country and thousands more smaller incidents. Who would want to be associated with that?

[Colr]

I debated the merits of even starting this thread.

There's no point in another .net debate about gun control. It's well tread ground. Thoughts and prayers are absolutely pointless.

Yet 17 school kids are dead in the USA and all I feel is apathy to a situation that is the norm, and won't ever change.

What a ****ed up world we live in.

It’s just part of their culture. They won’t change.

[Colr]

I'll put a slightly different slant on it.

Our politicians get a lot of grief, much of it deserved.

They deserve credit for the gun controls that were introduced in the wake of the Dunblane massacre.

As long as there are guns in the world (and unfortunately, regrettably there still are uses for guns) there will be the possibility of gun problems and incidents.

But our authorities deserve credit for the fact that we have evolved to a position where we do not have to live with the increased risk of appalling incidents like this happening, which our American friends do have to live with.

I wish they'd get a ******* grip over there.

I absolutely love America and really wish I'd had the opportunity to move there, but the gun laws and Donald Trump are big ticks in the negative column.

The other side if this one is that the lad responsible clearly has had a total breakdown with tragic results. The US has sweet FA in the way of a mental health system and Trump is busy ripping up the health access that Obama put in place.

[Scouse Hibee]

The other side if this one is that the lad responsible clearly has had a total breakdown with tragic results. The US has sweet FA in the way of a mental health system and Trump is busy ripping up the health access that Obama put in place.

Personality disorder rather than a mental breakdown possibly according to some.

[Colr]

Personality disorder rather than a mental breakdown possibly according to some.

I understand he had been through some personal trauma recently.

[hibsbollah]

I understand he had been through some personal trauma recently.

Bless. Somehow I doubt this rationalisation from the media would be happening if the dude wasn't white. His MAGA political identity and links with far right groups are being gradually whitewashed.

[Colr]

Bless. Somehow I doubt this rationalisation from the media would be happening if the dude wasn't white. His MAGA political identity and links with far right groups are being gradually whitewashed.

If you try and understand how things happen, you’ve got a better chance of preventing them happening again.

[hibsbollah]

If you try and understand how things happen, you’ve got a better chance of preventing them happening again.

Sadly, Trump isnt going to a) put federal funds into mental healthcare or b) control what weaponry is available to the mentally unstable. He's passed legislation since 2016 doing the exact opposite of both things. All I can see from the media now is an attempt to hide the reality of home grown, internet fuelled, far right terrorism.

[Pretty Boy]

The fact is the vast majority of people with mental health issues don't go around shooting children or indeed breaking other laws.

Trying to paint this as a symptom of mental illness is just lazy reporting and the exact opposite of trying to work out how it happened. This is a young man who has been radicalised by extreme videos and literature. We don't try and pass of the actions of IS as being a mental health issue so why are we doing it for this individual?

[hibsbollah]

The fact is the vast majority of people with mental health issues don't go around shooting children or indeed breaking other laws.

Trying to paint this as a symptom of mental illness is just lazy reporting and the exact opposite of trying to work out how it happened. This is a young man who has been radicalised by extreme videos and literature. We don't try and pass of the actions of IS as being a mental health issue so why are we doing it for this individual?

The answer to your question is they need a scapegoat that isn't linked to any of the interest groups that fund his operation. So in the absence of Muslim extremism, blacks, Russians or socialists, theyve gone for the mentally ill.
Which is peculiar, because if there WERE a proven link between mental health issues and gun violence, Trumps destruction of mental health provision would put him front and centre as the man to blame.

[RyeSloan]

I saw today a kids baseball team is being pressured after offering an assault rifle as a prize in a raffle only hours after the massacre. It seems gun raffles are common practice in the states!

Imagine a kids sports club for under 9’s raising money by raffling an assault rifle and getting the kids to sell the tickets! Crazy stuff.

[Hibby70]

About on average 1 school shooting per week in USA.

With about 32,000 high schools that's simply staggering.

[Pete]

I saw today a kids baseball team is being pressured after offering an assault rifle as a prize in a raffle only hours after the massacre. It seems gun raffles are common practice in the states!

Imagine a kids sports club for under 9’s raising money by raffling an assault rifle and getting the kids to sell the tickets! Crazy stuff.

A tiny part of me could maybe accept and make allowances for their culture if it was one of those wee pistols you use at a range but an assault rifle??

Why would anyone outside a theatre of war need one of them?

That’s not right.

[Tornadoes70]

If you try and understand how things happen, you’ve got a better chance of preventing them happening again.

Absolutely. The authorities must find out just what drove a young person to destroy other's lives. Some thing/s very obviously led up to the tragic event of the shocking act of multiple murders.








mon the cabbage!!!

[Alex Trager]

Trump wants to fight this by giving teachers arms.

Fight guns with guns

[Colr]

Trump wants to fight this by giving teachers arms.

Fight guns with guns

Who do they arm when a disgrunted armed teacher goes radge?

[Alex Trager]

Who do they arm when a disgrunted armed teacher goes radge?

Well another teacher of course

[overdrive]

Well another teacher of course

The students?

[Hibrandenburg]

“Evil walks among us and God help us if we don’t harden our schools and protect our kids.”*

I can't believe that some of them swallow this ****. They're addicted to guns, the thought of giving up their guns makes them break out in a cold sweat, they love their guns more than they love their kids. Their kids are getting wise though and change will come.

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder if everyone was searched when entering Trumps speech today. If 'good guys with guns' aren't a problem then why wasn't everyone packing heat?

[Sylar]

So let's assume this passes through, and all teachers are armed. They're going to have a gun in their desk, or on their hip, just incase - most likely a 9mm handgun. Let's assume they get extensive training and are deemed "competent" to carry (not that this is a requirement in many states).

Play out the scenario of a shooter entering school premises, armed with both an AR-15 and the knowledge that all teachers are armed - he (for argument's sake, but also factually driven, it's likely to be a he) walks up a deserted corridor as classes are going on. He plans on taking as many lives as he can, so he turns toward the first classroom. Is his gun over his shoulder/back, or 'holstered' in some way? No, he's going to have it drawn and in hand before he enters the room - who do you think he shoots first, again, knowing that the teacher is allowed to be carrying? *bang*, teacher down, empty clip, move on. No teacher would be able to draw from a holster or reach their desk in time vs an already drawn weapon. Now let's assume another teacher hears the shot - what do they do? Do they raise the alarm and trigger masses of students running toward the exits, or do they take their firearm and approach a guy carrying a semi-automatic assault rifle? Bearing in mind that many shooters wear body armour, and that most proficiency classes teach you to aim for the largest centre of mass, what teacher is going to pull out their 9mm, run toward the shooter and calmly take aim at the head? Careful aim vs 'spray and pray' approach of mass discharge...second teacher down. And so the story goes...

A second scenario - 17 year old kid at school getting bullied. Decides to enact revenge the only way his culture has taught him how. Has the knowledge that Miss Anderson has a gun on her possession. Middle age teacher, of slight figure vs muscular, angry young teenager hell-bent on getting her weapon. It solves a problem for anyone in a school contemplating a mass shooting - you don't need to worry about logistics of getting a gun onto campus in the first place - they're already there, and kids know how, and where to access them. Kid overpowers teacher, grabs gun, shoots teacher, lays waste to as many of his fellow students as possible. Granted, the only saving grace in this instance might be a lack of ammunition to continue the feat.

There are many reasons I would never work in an American University campus (despite currently being employed by one). If all University lecturers are forced to carry, in addition to school teachers, I have a lot of colleagues who will categorically move on to new careers. I've dealt with a lot of students unhappy at their grades, unsatisfied with the quality of particular content or exam questions. Pair that unhappiness with open carry on University campuses and it becomes a genuine life-threatening endeavour giving a student a failing or low mark.

The entire notion of this is absolutely ****ing crazy.

[Bristolhibby]

The students?

Terrorists?

[Future17]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634

I wonder what Trump makes of this.

[NAE NOOKIE]

What a senseless waste of human life. The gun lobby that is, not the victims.

[21.05.2016]

When will the penny finally drop for some people in America?! How much worse does it need to get than children murdered in their classrooms?!

Arming more people with guns is not the answer. Get rid of them. They serve absolutely NO purpose to ordinary civilians. After the horror of Dumblane in this country the gun laws were changed and we haven't had a mass shooting since. Thats no coincidence.

Until Americans wake up and start putting human life before an age old constitution then sadly we will continue to see mass school shootings, mall shootings, church shootings etc etc.

[Colr]

When will the penny finally drop for some people in America?! How much worse does it need to get than children murdered in their classrooms?!

Arming more people with guns is not the answer. Get rid of them. They serve absolutely NO purpose to ordinary civilians. After the horror of Dumblane in this country the gun laws were changed and we haven't had a mass shooting since. Thats no coincidence.

Until Americans wake up and start putting human life before an age old constitution then sadly we will continue to see mass school shootings, mall shootings, church shootings etc etc.

Won’t happen.

[Hibrandenburg]

When will the penny finally drop for some people in America?! How much worse does it need to get than children murdered in their classrooms?!

Arming more people with guns is not the answer. Get rid of them. They serve absolutely NO purpose to ordinary civilians. After the horror of Dumblane in this country the gun laws were changed and we haven't had a mass shooting since. Thats no coincidence.

Until Americans wake up and start putting human life before an age old constitution then sadly we will continue to see mass school shootings, mall shootings, church shootings etc etc.

They're addicted to guns, they make them feel strong, safe and empowered and like all addicts they couldn't give a **** about what happens to their kids providing they get their fix.

[Sir David Gray]

I thought the speech by Donald Trump today at CPAC was both worrying and extremely sad.

It was also really sad to hear the Australian Prime Minister trying to play down the fact that his own country has not had a single mass shooting since Australia tightened gun control following the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. He played down the importance of something similar being effective in the USA because somehow the two countries had "a different history" with guns. Trump also went along with that by saying the USA and Australia were "very different countries".

Really? I would have said there were a lot of similarities between the USA and Australia. Shared culture, shared language, a lot of shared political aims.

It's so sad to think that no-one in that country with any real influence is calling for a national debate on gun control or for legislation leading to restrictions being placed on an individual's right to possess a firearm.

In fact quite the opposite is happening and those in favour of the 2nd Amendment are actually calling for more people to be armed as a result of the Florida shooting and it really is quite shocking to hear that as an outsider.

[snooky]

The Amercans are still living with a Wild West mentality. Alas, retaining values & customs that are centuries out of date is a quality that's not solely applicable to residents of the US of A.

[Just Jimmy]

trump has implied the sheriff was a coward and that he himself would have run into the building unarmed to tackle the shooter.

What do you expect when the madman is running the institution?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

trump has implied the sheriff was a coward and that he himself would have run into the building unarmed to tackle the shooter.

What do you expect when the madman is running the institution?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Ah, the old would've could've should've. Trump dodged the draft, not necessarily always a sign of cowardice, but in his case I think it probably was. Used his money to avoid his patriotic responsibilities and then sends young men to their deaths in wartime, and refuses to protect schoolkids from assault rifles under the cover of patriotic American values. Makes me sick.

[Pete]

trump has implied the sheriff was a coward and that he himself would have run into the building unarmed to tackle the shooter.

I’ve heard him say a lot of repulsive things but that has to be the worst.

To call out a poor security guard from such a position of power is absolutely pathetic, especially when he’s making such ridiculous, baseless claims about how he would react in that situation.

Taking liberties and bragging like that would probably get him a smack in the mouth in almost any pub in the world.

[Hibrandenburg]

I’ve heard him say a lot of repulsive things but that has to be the worst.

To call out a poor security guard from such a position of power is absolutely pathetic, especially when he’s making such ridiculous, baseless claims about how he would react in that situation.

Taking liberties and bragging like that would probably get him a smack in the mouth in almost any pub in the world.

The same guy that dodged the draft when Uncle Sam came calling.

[calumhibee1]

I’ve heard him say a lot of repulsive things but that has to be the worst.

To call out a poor security guard from such a position of power is absolutely pathetic, especially when he’s making such ridiculous, baseless claims about how he would react in that situation.

Taking liberties and bragging like that would probably get him a smack in the mouth in almost any pub in the world.

Was it not a polis rather than a security guard?

[Just Jimmy]

Was it not a polis rather than a security guard?Still applies.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

Still applies.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

It does to an extent, but nowhere near as much as it would with a security guard.

[Pete]

It does to an extent, but nowhere near as much as it would with a security guard.

Well I presume both would be armed and trained to deal with situations like this.

Either way he’s tried to look like a big man by calling out someone who is doing a job and in a situation he will never understand.

Sickening.

[jonty]

Teacher reportedly opens fire in classroom
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html

[lapsedhibee]

Teacher reportedly opens fire in classroom
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html

This is why to be completely safe students must be armed when they're attending school.

[stu in nottingham]

Apparently, the officer was armed with a 'handgun' whilst the the killer was blazing away with an AR-15 assault rifle. I wonder what officer Peterson's chances would have been...