Attendances

[Ozyhibby]

The yams spell at Murrayfield keeping them above us for now.
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[lucky]

Amazing how well St.Johnstone and Hamilton to a lesser extent on such small supports.

[SANH 1875]

Would be interesting to see what home support averages is within these figures.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Do these figures include the massive away supports brought by Aberdeen and Therangers?

[Sir David Gray]

I like how Celtic are pretending to have an average of almost 58000 people at every home game. :faf:

[SirDavidsNapper]

Do these figures include the massive away supports brought by Aberdeen and Therangers?

Yes

[SirDavidsNapper]

Slightly annoying Murrayfield away supports have put them ahead

[Onceinawhile]

SInce many have asked:

Average Attendances for the Scottish #Premiership excluding Celtic & Rangers fixtures

#Hibs 17436
#Hearts 17351
#Aberdeen 14912
#Dundee 5617
#Kilmarnock 4729
#Motherwell 4296
#RossCounty 4101
#PartickThistle 3617
#StJohnstone 3611
#Hamilton 2250

[LaMotta]

Hibs average at Easter Road in league. 17,865

Hearts average at Tynecastle in league. 16,699

A far truer reflection of Attendances this season when you get rid of the Murrayfield factor.

[Callyballybe]

SInce many have asked:

Average Attendances for the Scottish #Premiership excluding Celtic & Rangers fixtures

#Hibs 17436
#Hearts 17351
#Aberdeen 14912
#Dundee 5617
#Kilmarnock 4729
#Motherwell 4296
#RossCounty 4101
#PartickThistle 3617
#StJohnstone 3611
#Hamilton 2250

Interesting. Thanks for posting this.

With them including the Murrayfield attendances within their average attendance figures, although I understand them doing it, is a bit frustrating; and will probably be the only figures they look at. They'll have no reason to dig any deeper as long as they're ahead of us in these terms.

[Callyballybe]

Another thing worthy of highlighting,

Since moving back to the PBS they've had three 'opportunities' to hit the 20,000 attendance mark with a home game against Celtic, and two home games against us - not one of those fixtures managed it.

We've had Celtic, Rangers and Hearts each at home once this season. All three games where over 20,000. More over, Celtic and Rangers were within one week of each other, that's impressive by anyone's standards in Scottish football (outside Old Firm.)

[blackpoolhibs]

Another thing worthy of highlighting,

Since moving back to the PBS they've had three 'opportunities' to hit the 20,000 attendance mark with a home game against Celtic, and two home games against us - not one of those fixtures managed it.

We've had Celtic, Rangers and Hearts each at home once this season. All three games where over 20,000. More over, Celtic and Rangers were within one week of each other, that's impressive by anyone's standards in Scottish football (outside Old Firm.)


:faf: Aye if they count toilet seats, all the seats in hospitality, and their seats at home.

[Deansy]

Another thing worthy of highlighting,

Since moving back to the PBS they've had three 'opportunities' to hit the 20,000 attendance mark with a home game against Celtic, and two home games against us - not one of those fixtures managed it.

We've had Celtic, Rangers and Hearts each at home once this season. All three games where over 20,000. More over, Celtic and Rangers were within one week of each other, that's impressive by anyone's standards in Scottish football (outside Old Firm.)

It is strange how Edinburgh's 'Big team' haven't once managed to get a 20,000 crowd in their new '20,000' seater-stadium - no doubt the EEN/'All-is' will thoroughly grill Potter/Budge on this ............................................ :faf:

[IGRIGI]

Dunfermline are doing alright when compared to about half of the SPL.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Incredible figures for Hibs and only likely to get better with a certain 18,000 plus against Aberdeen and a full house against the Yams to come :thumbsup:

For those of us lucky? enough to have followed Scottish football in the 80s and 90s seeing Hibs the Yams and Aberdeen all with averages over 15,000 in the same season is incredible, it would have been unthinkable back then.

I find it amazing that folk in the press, TV and especially the corridors of power in Scottish football, folk who are supposed to have the good of the game at heart, and even more pertinently are supposed to be promoting and selling it, seem to be so quiet on stats like these. Its good news FFS and makes our game, at least on the surface, look in decent health ..... they should be shouting it from the bloody rooftops

Stats like those would put Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen mid table or just below in attendances for the Spanish, Italian and French leagues ... three of the so called big 5 in Europe ... and in the top half of the Dutch and Belgian leagues as well. If you chuck in the Ugly sisters who would make a dent in the top 5 of any league in Europe with the crowds they get its unbelievable that we cant attract far more money into our game ... no wonder Barry Hearn was so bloody scathing :bitchy:

[Callyballybe]

It is strange how Edinburgh's 'Big team' haven't once managed to get a 20,000 crowd in their new '20,000' seater-stadium - no doubt the EEN/'All-is' will thoroughly grill Potter/Budge on this ............................................ :faf:

Or it'll be 'swept under the carpet' nice and quietly - just like everything else that doesn't paint them as the perfect, ground-breaking, nearly completely fan's run club that they are.

Didn't they invent the concept of a fan's run club? In fact, didn't they invent football full stop?

[Callyballybe]

Incredible figures for Hibs and only likely to get better with a certain 18,000 plus against Aberdeen and a full house against the Yams to come :thumbsup:

For those of us lucky? enough to have followed Scottish football in the 80s and 90s seeing Hibs the Yams and Aberdeen all with averages over 15,000 in the same season is incredible, it would have been unthinkable back then.

I find it amazing that folk in the press, TV and especially the corridors of power in Scottish football, folk who are supposed to have the good of the game at heart, and even more pertinently are supposed to be promoting and selling it, seem to be so quiet on stats like these. Its good news FFS and makes our game, at least on the surface, look in decent health ..... they should be shouting it from the bloody rooftops

Stats like those would put Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen mid table or just below in attendances for the Spanish, Italian and French leagues ... three of the so called big 5 in Europe ... and in the top half of the Dutch and Belgian leagues as well. If you chuck in the Ugly sisters who would make a dent in the top 5 of any league in Europe with the crowds they get its unbelievable that we cant attract far more money into our game ... no wonder Barry Hearn was so bloody scathing :bitchy:

Exactly. This is one of the main problems, ingrained it seems, within our game. Too many apologists too ready to put the sport down, or at the very least, look for the worst whilst ignoring the best. Stats like the above should be shouted from the rooftops!

Agreed on the Barry Hearn point as well - It shouldn't be that hard to find someone with the same enthusiasm he has for darts, but for Scottish football.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Another thing worthy of highlighting,

Since moving back to the PBS they've had three 'opportunities' to hit the 20,000 attendance mark with a home game against Celtic, and two home games against us - not one of those fixtures managed it.

We've had Celtic, Rangers and Hearts each at home once this season. All three games where over 20,000. More over, Celtic and Rangers were within one week of each other, that's impressive by anyone's standards in Scottish football (outside Old Firm.)

And they called our east stand a white Elephant :faf: .... Somebody needs to amend the Yams Wiki page, it states the capacity as 20,099 .. it clearly isn't or the big team would be showing far higher figures :greengrin

I'm still stumped as to why when they could have built a two deck 8,000 capacity stand for the same money using a cantilever design, they chose to build the super duper 'truss' stand with rubbish directors and press areas and no TV studio. Has anybody pointed out to Budge that if they had gone down the cantilever route the 'Sky View lounge' actually would have had a view of the castle :lolyam:

[Ozyhibby]

Exactly. This is one of the main problems, ingrained it seems, within our game. Too many apologists too ready to put the sport down, or at the very least, look for the worst whilst ignoring the best. Stats like the above should be shouted from the rooftops!

Agreed on the Barry Hearn point as well - It shouldn't be that hard to find someone with the same enthusiasm he has for darts, but for Scottish football.

Finding someone is the easy part. Persuading the blazers to give up their power to allow him/her the power to make the necessary changes is the tricky bit.


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[SouthMoroccoStu]

Dunfermline are doing alright when compared to about half of the SPL.

Absolutely

Considering Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Therangers would all take a big away support which would massively boost their numbers

[neil7908]

Massive drop from 5th to 6th

[NAE NOOKIE]

Finding someone is the easy part. Persuading the blazers to give up their power to allow him/her the power to make the necessary changes is the tricky bit.


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Absolutely Ozzy. At the end of the day what Hearn did to darts was so simple it wasn't true. He changed the stuffy "Shhhhhhh game on" to noise, booze and colour then took the game round the country ..... Bingo folk got rich, not least of all him. The game is exactly the same, what he did was change the experience for the folk watching it.

Meanwhile football allows its fans to be treated as an afterthought with lunchtime kick offs for semi finals at Hampden when on a Sunday half the country cant even get a bus or a train that would get them there on time and the busiest fixture schedule arranged for December, the most expensive month of the year.

And in my opinion .... not one shared by everybody I know .... they have allowed a league system where one of the countries biggest clubs in Hibs were allowed to languish in the second tier for three seasons, with a fourth possibly leading to us being in real financial difficulty and a situation now where arguably the countries sixth biggest club in Dundee Utd face the real possibility of a financial crisis they will take years to recover from if they cant make it up through the playoffs this season.

This is not a country where one big club falling by the wayside will instantly be replaced by another .... a bigger league would be able to accommodate the likes of Dundee Utd and Dunfermline and not only make it more likely the could avoid relegation but far more likely they could come back up quickly if they were to be relegated. That would make the finances of the top league where financial stability is vital to the health of our game in general far more solid.

[Keyser Sauzee]

Interesting to see how much Edinburgh City’s attendances would rise if they did manage to climb they’re way up the leagues

[Michael]

Interesting to see how much Edinburgh City’s attendances would rise if they did manage to climb they’re way up the leagues

60K+ crowds if my football manager save is anything to go by. Future European superpower.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Massive drop from 5th to 6th

Makes you wonder what these figures would do with respect to invites to join the whispered about Atlantic League. Top 5 Scottish teams would be amongst the best supported from the half dozen countries being mooted.

[Crazyhorse]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;5315154]And they called our east stand a white Elephant :faf: .... Somebody needs to amend the Yams Wiki page, it states the capacity as 20,099 .. it clearly isn't or the big team would be showing far higher figures :greengrin

I'm still stumped as to why when they could have built a two deck 8,000 capacity stand for the same money using a cantilever design, they chose to build the super duper 'truss' stand with rubbish directors and press areas and no TV studio. Has anybody pointed out to Budge that if they had gone down the cantilever route the 'Sky View lounge' actually would have had a view of the castle :lolyam:[/QUOT

Given the yam capacity to squander money would that not have been much more expensive than the tin bus shelter thing they did put up?

[Crazyhorse]

Makes you wonder what these figures would do with respect to invites to join the whispered about Atlantic League. Top 5 Scottish teams would be amongst the best supported from the half dozen countries being mooted.

Yams would have the smallest stadium in this whispered about league. The shame of it...
Of course the admittance criteria might be having a 20k stadium in which case they wouldn't be in at all.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Approximately 112,000 people (and that word is being extremely generous to some of them) watching football regularly in Glasgow. Pretty impressive to be fair. Can’t be many similarly sized cities with figures like that. I mean there’s Manchester, but it contains the richest club in the world on one side of town and one of the most iconic clubs in the world on the other.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Certainly seems to be a bit of a boom in Scottish attendances. Very encouraging. Hopefully a Dundee United/Hamilton swap to boost premiership further.

[Hi Heid Yin]

The Murrayfield games DO NOT COUNT! Those figures distort their average - especially when considering the huge away support The Rangers took to the home of rugby .
It's how many they get at Tynecastle that counts.
We know it. They know it, and every man and his dog knows it.
The idea of Hibs getting over 1,000 more on average through our gates is anathema to the great deluded.
They will not accept it and will use any means to get one over Hibs, including counting the Murrayfield figures. They are simply deluding themselves by clinging to this nonsense

[Crazyhorse]

Approximately 112,000 people (and that word is being extremely generous to some of them) watching football regularly in Glasgow. Pretty impressive to be fair. Can’t be many similarly sized cities with figures like that. I mean there’s Manchester, but it contains the richest club in the world on one side of town and one of the most iconic clubs in the world on the other.

Leaving aside the yams Murrayfield embarrassment where they did a Kilmarnock and sold half their tickets to the huns - and pulled in a giant dons support - the regular gates of almost 35k across the two Edinburgh clubs is pretty amazing. When did that last happen, the 50s or something?

[WhileTheChief..]

Next season will be a good one for comparisons.

Both clubs will have settled teams and managers and there will be no excuses about pitches or stadiums or off field stuff.

A strong finish to the season and a couple of quality signings could see us beat their average next year.

It might kill them as a club?!

[allmodcons]

Our attendances this season have been brilliant. Long may it continue.

Personally, I couldn't give a toss about their attendances.

[KeithTheHibby]

Our average will be higher come the end of the season, I’ll put money on that.

[StevieCowan]

What we need is a good run of form and to get the ST’s on sale in March/April.

The difference to the club in getting 13k ST’s to a) renew and b) renew early could be very significant.

[frazeHFC]

Dunfermline are doing alright when compared to about half of the SPL.

Always enjoy a trip to East End Park, huge away stand. Would much rather they were still in our league as apposed to the likes of Hamilton.

[Aldo]

They have lived a LIE for decades and it continues and will continue. If they want to use the Murrayfield attendances as part of their Avg then it shows their desperation.

Frankly it shows you exactly what they are all about.......


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[Dashing Bob S]

They have lived a LIE for decades and it continues and will continue. If they want to use the Murrayfield attendances as part of their Avg then it shows their desperation.

Frankly it shows you exactly what they are all about.......


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Exactly! Let them self delude till the cows come home. Now it’s there pathetic Murrayfield gerrymandering. Truth is they are a smaller club with a smaller stadium and support. Pumping it up through financial dopingbwith now evaporating glory hunters does not a solid support base make.

[timewilltell]

Don't understand the obsession with comparisons to Hearts attendances.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Don't understand the obsession with comparisons to Hearts attendances.

To be honest mate its a relatively new thing. If Hibs got a big crowd back in the day it was always a reason to be pleased, but as I recall it was never used as a stick to beat another club with, not even Hearts. It was the same with them, even though their crowds for most seasons would be slightly higher than ours I genuinely cant remember hearing their fans going on about it.

This all began when their 'big team / wee team nonsense started and got ramped up after 56,000 folk turned up at Murrayfield to watch Barcelona. The fact that about 30,000 of them A) weren't Hearts fans and B) had probably never even been to Tynecastle and had no intention of ever doing so didn't matter, it cemented the delusion into their tiny minds .... I know at least 3 non Yams who went to that game and I'm willing to bet every other Hibby does as well.

Given what we have had to put up with over the last few decades is it any wonder we take every opportunity to ram their 'big team' pish down their throats .... If we do end up with a higher average than them come the end of the season I wont blame anybody for revelling in it.

The truth is Hibs and Hearts are both big clubs in Scotland, but compared to most of Europe we fall very much into the medium sized category. I think most Hibbies are happy to accept that and its time our neighbours did as well.

[Monts]

They have lived a LIE for decades and it continues and will continue. If they want to use the Murrayfield attendances as part of their Avg then it shows their desperation.

Frankly it shows you exactly what they are all about.......


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Or it shows how's many people attended hearts home matches this season. I don't see the problem with it.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Our average will be higher come the end of the season, I’ll put money on that.

Fairly safe bet. With Killie closing in on 5th and Motherwell likely to catch them too we will have a top 6 finish and in 7th they wont get the home game against us and Celtic instead they'll get Hamilton and Ross County. Sweet.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Or it shows how's many people attended hearts home matches this season. I don't see the problem with it.

Exactly. The fact that Murrayfield attracted far higher away attendances from curious Aberdeen, Killie and Sevco fans at the end of the day is just the Yams good luck .... they still paid to get into the game, it was a Hearts home game and therefor its perfectly legitimate for them to count those folk in their average. The stats are for average attendances for each club, not average attendances for each stadium.

If you ask me if we end up with a higher average even taking the Yams Murrayfield sabbatical into account surely that will make our effort all the more impressive.

[Sir David Gray]

Fairly safe bet. With Killie closing in on 5th and Motherwell likely to catch them too we will have a top 6 finish and in 7th they wont get the home game against us and Celtic instead they'll get Hamilton and Ross County. Sweet.

I would be surprised if Hearts weren't in the top six. They have 1 defeat in their last 15 games and have only lost 6 goals in that time.

I'm confident we can finish above them but they will finish comfortably inside the top six in my opinion.

[Brooster]

Don't understand the obsession with comparisons to Hearts attendances.

Same here. Some folk go on about them constantly. Lets focus on Hibs.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Same here. Some folk go on about them constantly. Lets focus on Hibs.

until 9th March...

[Carheenlea]

Hibs and Hearts are two clubs of similar size and fanbase competing for the same targets. Arguing over such small numbers in an attempt to define the bigger of the two is just futile and a waste of everyone's time.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Hibs and Hearts are two clubs of similar size and fanbase competing for the same targets. Arguing over such small numbers in an attempt to define the bigger of the two is just futile and a waste of everyone's time.

Imagine if the two clubs combined and renamed themselves Heart of Midlothian.......Oh wait

[where'stheslope]

This table tells me one thing, Scottish Football changing the League size to 16 or 18 teams, would murder any teams projections of income in that first season as only the top 5 teams have 5 figure attendances and another 3 have 5,000+ and another 5 have 4,000+????
It is dire straits for clubs trying to play catch up with the Uglies!!!!

[SideBurns]

This table tells me one thing, Scottish Football changing the League size to 16 or 18 teams, would murder any teams projections of income in that first season as only the top 5 teams have 5 figure attendances and another 3 have 5,000+ and another 5 have 4,000+????
It is dire straits for clubs trying to play catch up with the Uglies!!!!

Would the argument not be that the likes of Dundee United, Dunfermline, St. Mirren and Falkirk (all with decent averages in the Championship) would get bigger crowds due to matches with us, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers? Even the likes of Morton would have bigger attendances, given the amount of Hun and Tic fans going to Cappielow when playing there, and we always take a good away support to Greenock. St.Johnstone continue to baffle, mind - decent city, and a team who have punched above their weight for years, but shan turnouts at home gemmes.

[Ozyhibby]

Would the argument not be that the likes of Dundee United, Dunfermline, St. Mirren and Falkirk (all with decent averages in the Championship) would get bigger crowds due to matches with us, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers? Even the likes of Morton would have bigger attendances, given the amount of Hun and Tic fans going to Cappielow when playing there, and we always take a good away support to Greenock. St.Johnstone continue to baffle, mind - decent city, and a team who have punched above their weight for years, but shan turnouts at home gemmes.

Hibs are dead against an enlarged league as it would hurt us financially playing Hearts, Sevco, Celtic and Aberdeen once each at home. These are the games that bring in the cash. TV companies don’t want it either as they only want these top games.


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[Keith_M]

Hibs are dead against an enlarged league as it would hurt us financially playing Hearts, Sevco, Celtic and Aberdeen once each at home. These are the games that bring in the cash. TV companies don’t want it either as they only want these top games.


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Following that argument to it's logical conclusion, why don't The Rangers just play Celtc 36 times a season?

[SideBurns]

Hibs are dead against an enlarged league as it would hurt us financially playing Hearts, Sevco, Celtic and Aberdeen once each at home. These are the games that bring in the cash. TV companies don’t want it either as they only want these top games.


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I think that is probably the view of most of the clubs in the Premier League, and I understand it but not sure an enlarged league would necessarily hurt attendances across the board. In years gone by, we got poorer crowds for those games anyway when on the TV as the unsociable KO times and ability to view at home or in the pub kept people away but at the moment we seem to be near enough selling out our own stands regardless of the opposition or other factors. That could change again of course, if our fortunes took another downturn.

[connerg]

Always enjoy a trip to East End Park, huge away stand. Would much rather they were still in our league as apposed to the likes of Hamilton.
Good steak bridies too. :drool:

[hibbyfraelibby]

Following that argument to it's logical conclusion, why don't The Rangers just play Celtc 36 times a season?

Dont they do that already? You'd think so if you believe the weegie media circus.

[Ozyhibby]

I think that is probably the view of most of the clubs in the Premier League, and I understand it but not sure an enlarged league would necessarily hurt attendances across the board. In years gone by, we got poorer crowds for those games anyway when on the TV as the unsociable KO times and ability to view at home or in the pub kept people away but at the moment we seem to be near enough selling out our own stands regardless of the opposition or other factors. That could change again of course, if our fortunes took another downturn.

Crowd for Aberdeen game this week will be much higher than for recents games v Hamilton, Ross county etc


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[jimbob07]

Would the argument not be that the likes of Dundee United, Dunfermline, St. Mirren and Falkirk (all with decent averages in the Championship) would get bigger crowds due to matches with us, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers? Even the likes of Morton would have bigger attendances, given the amount of Hun and Tic fans going to Cappielow when playing there, and we always take a good away support to Greenock. St.Johnstone continue to baffle, mind - decent city, and a team who have punched above their weight for years, but shan turnouts at home gemmes.

Play summer football .Simple bigger crowds,bigger money from T.V when no EPL games scheduled

[son of haggart]

Incredible figures for Hibs and only likely to get better with a certain 18,000 plus against Aberdeen and a full house against the Yams to come :thumbsup:

For those of us lucky? enough to have followed Scottish football in the 80s and 90s seeing Hibs the Yams and Aberdeen all with averages over 15,000 in the same season is incredible, it would have been unthinkable back then.

I find it amazing that folk in the press, TV and especially the corridors of power in Scottish football, folk who are supposed to have the good of the game at heart, and even more pertinently are supposed to be promoting and selling it, seem to be so quiet on stats like these. Its good news FFS and makes our game, at least on the surface, look in decent health ..... they should be shouting it from the bloody rooftops

Stats like those would put Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen mid table or just below in attendances for the Spanish, Italian and French leagues ... three of the so called big 5 in Europe ... and in the top half of the Dutch and Belgian leagues as well. If you chuck in the Ugly sisters who would make a dent in the top 5 of any league in Europe with the crowds they get its unbelievable that we cant attract far more money into our game ... no wonder Barry Hearn was so bloody scathing :bitchy:


Great post. Those tossers at the GFA and the media establishment are throttling the game they claim to love. A fairer distribution of tv revenues would be a start, but as you point out they are just not interested even in reporting the upsurge in attendances. What other institutions would ignore the growth of key elements in favour of continuing to focus resources on two Neanderthal stuck-in-the-past businesses who peaked more than 30 years ago.

[SideBurns]

Crowd for Aberdeen game this week will be much higher than for recents games v Hamilton, Ross county etc


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Aye, that is certainly true but that is partly because of a large Dons contingent, which brings me back to my earlier argument about clubs with big travelling supports raising attendance levels at other clubs over a 16/18 team league.

Anyway, it is all academic as a bigger league isnae happening and nobody knows for sure what impact it may have had on crowds.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Aye, that is certainly true but that is partly because of a large Dons contingent, which brings me back to my earlier argument about clubs with big travelling supports raising attendance levels at other clubs over a 16/18 team league.

Anyway, it is all academic as a bigger league isnae happening and nobody knows for sure what impact it may have had on crowds.

The logic is a bit dodgy. The same number of away fans will travel week in week out. Where they go is of no consequence as in the end the average number travelling remains the same. No statistical significant difference can be implied.

[LaMotta]

Play summer football .Simple bigger crowds,bigger money from T.V when no EPL games scheduled


Except no evidence any of those things would happen. If they did, we'd all be crowded round the telly watching big crowds in the Irish league every summer.

[theonlywayisup]

19,551 at ER today - what's our average now?


The yams spell at Murrayfield keeping them above us for now.
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[LaMotta]

19,551 at ER today - what's our average now?

18,005 average after 12 home games now.:aok:

[Lancs Harp]

18,005 average after 12 home games now.:aok:

To put that into some sort of context Im 54 next week (young 54 obviously:greengrin) and 18000 represents the highest average attendance in my whole life. I believe currently the highest average since 57/58.

[CMurdoch]

18,005 average after 12 home games now.:aok:

That looks good :greengrin

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Would the argument not be that the likes of Dundee United, Dunfermline, St. Mirren and Falkirk (all with decent averages in the Championship) would get bigger crowds due to matches with us, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers? Even the likes of Morton would have bigger attendances, given the amount of Hun and Tic fans going to Cappielow when playing there, and we always take a good away support to Greenock. St.Johnstone continue to baffle, mind - decent city, and a team who have punched above their weight for years, but shan turnouts at home gemmes.

As Stuart Cosgrove is always quick to point out, St Johnstone’s attendances as a percentage of the population of Perth are a lot better than most city teams in the country - Edinburgh included.

However, they are managing it, they are doing so without carrying any debt and living within their means - good luck to them, except when they play us [emoji4][emoji1184]

[chippy]

Makes you wonder what these figures would do with respect to invites to join the whispered about Atlantic League. Top 5 Scottish teams would be amongst the best supported from the half dozen countries being mooted.

Abslout Hibs Celts and Huns in Atlantic First Division, Hearts and Dons in 2nd

[LustForLeith]

Fifth highest in the U.K yesterday according to Twitter

[telford hibbee]

Next season will be a good one for comparisons.

Both clubs will have settled teams and managers and there will be no excuses about pitches or stadiums or off field stuff.

A strong finish to the season and a couple of quality signings could see us beat their average next year.

It might kill them as a club?!
I hope you are correct about Hibs having a settled team but I think we could be watching a completely different set of players after the summer transfers. Really hope I’m wrong .

[Criswell]

Getting exited as to who has the biggest average attendance is very "yammish". I personally couldn't care less. The important thing is that we have proved that with a little success on the field the fan base is there. Hopefully we can sustain it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Getting exited as to who has the biggest average attendance is very "yammish". I personally couldn't care less. The important thing is that we have proved that with a little success on the field the fan base is there. Hopefully we can sustain it.

Absolutely mate ...... It's looking like they are about to wish they had never started it :greengrin

[jgl07]

Play summer football .Simple bigger crowds,bigger money from T.V when no EPL games scheduled
Bigger crowds?

What about those who go on Holiday in June and/or July? I would certainly cancel my season ticket if the SPFL changed to a summer season.

Also the Christmas and New Year fixtures would be gone. Really smart move that!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Bigger crowds?

What about those who go on Holiday in June and/or July? I would certainly cancel my season ticket if the SPFL changed to a summer season.

Also the Christmas and New Year fixtures would be gone. Really smart move that!

You've nae imagination mate ..... we change the new year derby to the 'summer solstice' derby .... kick off at 5am as the sun rises between the south and east gap with a couple of Druids blessing the ball like at Stonehenge .... as the crowd who have followed the new tradition of staying up all night getting pissed are whipped into a frenzy. I can see it working :greengrin

[chinny baxter]

18,005 average after 12 home games now.:aok:

Hibs are the only team outwith the ugly sisters to have had an average crowd of over 30000.It was in season 1951/52 when we averaged 30700.Hearts biggest average was 3 years earlier at 28195.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Hibs are the only team outwith the ugly sisters to have had an average crowd of over 30000.It was in season 1951/52 when we averaged 30700.Hearts biggest average was 3 years earlier at 28195.

You must be mistaken. We're the wee team don't forget it

[007]

They've had more away fans, we've had more home fans.

20226

[jgl07]

Another thing worthy of highlighting,

Since moving back to the PBS they've had three 'opportunities' to hit the 20,000 attendance mark with a home game against Celtic, and two home games against us - not one of those fixtures managed it.

We've had Celtic, Rangers and Hearts each at home once this season. All three games where over 20,000. More over, Celtic and Rangers were within one week of each other, that's impressive by anyone's standards in Scottish football (outside Old Firm.)

Err Hearts had ZERO opportunities to hit 20,000 as their stadium doesn't hold that many.

Wee team, wee stadium.

[WhileTheChief..]

There’s an equivalent thread on jkb about this.

Apparently we only have decent crowds this season because.....

We give away thousands of free tickets to kids
Loads of us buy concession tickets that we’re not entitled to
We report tickets sold whereas they report bums on seats
etc etc

They hate it. The amount of straw clutching is incredible. They literally just make things up, post them online and everyone else nods in agreement. It really is bizarre behaviour from them.

Of course if anyone dares suggest that our crowds are good they are accused, again, of being vermin ****.

Similarly, on another thread they claim that Farmer gets £500k every time we sell a player for a decent amount! Where do they get it from?

I think they’re seething.

[Sauzee16]

There’s an equivalent thread on jkb about this.

Apparently we only have decent crowds this season because.....

We give away thousands of free tickets to kids
Loads of us buy concession tickets that we’re not entitled to
We report tickets sold whereas they report bums on seats
etc etc

They hate it. The amount of straw clutching is incredible. They literally just make things up, post them online and everyone else nods in agreement. It really is bizarre behaviour from them.

Of course if anyone dares suggest that our crowds are good they are accused, again, of being vermin ****.

Similarly, on another thread they claim that Farmer gets £500k every time we sell a player for a decent amount! Where do they get it from?

I think they’re seething.


They will see the progression we have had as a club on and off the park in the last 3 years when it was looking very bleak to be honest whilst they scraped out of admin after years over spending. They will see how this has happened and they could have stopped it somewhat and completely bottled it. That must reallyREALLY hurt them.

[theonlywayisup]

The yams spell at Murrayfield keeping them above us for now.

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Latest now - all teams having had 14 home games:

57,634 Celtic
49,184 The Rangers
18,438 Anti Football
18,150 Hibernian
15,768 Aberdeen

Hertz have Partick Thisle and Aberdeen at home
Hibs have Partick Thistle and Hamilton at home

Hibs would need to have a just over 4,000 more fans attending the two games compared to the Hertz for Hibs to have a higher average attendance, if my maths are correct. It could easily happen in the Hertz are struggling to get 15,000 for both games and if we get above 17,000 in our two games.

[renato]

Latest now - all teams having had 14 home games:

57,634 Celtic
49,184 The Rangers
18,438 Anti Football
18,150 Hibernian
15,768 Aberdeen

Hertz have Partick Thisle and Aberdeen at home
Hibs have Partick Thistle and Hamilton at home

Hibs would need to have a just over 4,000 more fans attending the two games compared to the Hertz for Hibs to have a higher average attendance, if my maths are correct. It could easily happen in the Hertz are struggling to get 15,000 for both games and if we get above 17,000 in our two games.

Take out the huge sheep and sevco away supports they had at Murrayfield and their average drops quite a bit.

[Sir David Gray]

Latest now - all teams having had 14 home games:

57,634 Celtic
49,184 The Rangers
18,438 Anti Football
18,150 Hibernian
15,768 Aberdeen

Hertz have Partick Thisle and Aberdeen at home
Hibs have Partick Thistle and Hamilton at home

Hibs would need to have a just over 4,000 more fans attending the two games compared to the Hertz for Hibs to have a higher average attendance, if my maths are correct. It could easily happen in the Hertz are struggling to get 15,000 for both games and if we get above 17,000 in our two games.

What's their average since going back to Tynecastle?

[Jack Hackett]

What's their average since going back to Tynecastle?

A lot less than their official figures would have us believe for sure. A lack of away support and walk ups when they end up in the bottom 6 will bring their figures way down

[1van Sprou7e]

Even if they finish top 6 (and I think they will unfortunately) their attendances will suffer big time

Their season is over and the fans are disenfranchised

[where'stheslope]

On the attendance front, Hamilton V Motherwell (cup semi finalists), a Lanarkshire Derby only has 4,000 at the game.
How can they even survive on this, last week the Yams filled the away end with 4,500 and lost!!!!
Scottish football needs to have a real good look at regionalising and maybe even amalgamating teams (Airdrie, Motherwell and Hamilton) as you can throw a blanket over how close they are to each other, plus they are far to near Glasgow!
Its the same in the Falkirk area, Fife is the same, too many clubs for too little population?

[Ringothedog]

On the attendance front, Hamilton V Motherwell (cup semi finalists), a Lanarkshire Derby only has 4,000 at the game.
How can they even survive on this, last week the Yams filled the away end with 4,500 and lost!!!!
Scottish football needs to have a real good look at regionalising and maybe even amalgamating teams (Airdrie, Motherwell and Hamilton) as you can throw a blanket over how close they are to each other, plus they are far to near Glasgow!
Its the same in the Falkirk area, Fife is the same, too many clubs for too little population?

So you are suggesting that we close down clubs and then start a new one with no history, no support and no stadium, all the clubs you mention punch well above their weight. They deserve our respect.

[WhileTheChief..]

It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

It’s a sensible but sensitive option.

Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

It’s ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

I know it’s not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called ‘’a good community club’ just doesn’t cut it.

What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!

[Sir David Gray]

On the attendance front, Hamilton V Motherwell (cup semi finalists), a Lanarkshire Derby only has 4,000 at the game.
How can they even survive on this, last week the Yams filled the away end with 4,500 and lost!!!!
Scottish football needs to have a real good look at regionalising and maybe even amalgamating teams (Airdrie, Motherwell and Hamilton) as you can throw a blanket over how close they are to each other, plus they are far to near Glasgow!
Its the same in the Falkirk area, Fife is the same, too many clubs for too little population?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

How would you feel as a fan of Hamilton or Motherwell, who goes every week to watch their team, only to be told that their team didn't attract enough supporters and they had to shut down and merge with other local teams? These teams have history going back well over 100 years and are important to the local communities that they come from. The fact that they don't have huge supports is unfortunate but that's not an argument to shut them down.

Even if you did shut them down and merge with other clubs, who's going to support the new club? You can bet your bottom dollar that the people who followed their own club for decades wouldn't give some amalgamated team the time of day.

Wallace Mercer would be proud of your suggestion.

[hibbysam]

It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

It’s a sensible but sensitive option.

Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

It’s ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

I know it’s not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called ‘’a good community club’ just doesn’t cut it.

What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!

Why don’t we ‘amalgamate’ with hearts to try and break the Glasgow duopoly? ****ing ludicrous suggestion. Clubs with many years of history regardless of how many people follow them. Cowdenbeath joining with East fife won’t make our game any better than it is, apart from give us far less teams and chasing fans away.

[KeithTheHibby]

Take out the huge sheep and sevco away supports they had at Murrayfield and their average drops quite a bit.

They sold 14k and 7k respectively tickets to the Huns and the sheep. Even allowing for the maximum those teams could have had for Tynie being 7k it means an increase of 14k. Knock that off as an average it works out at 1k per game.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

It’s a sensible but sensitive option.

Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

It’s ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

I know it’s not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called ‘’a good community club’ just doesn’t cut it.

What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!

All of these clubs manage to live within their means - regardless of their attendances. They deserve nothing but respect for managing to do so..

When Sevco were being formed we were all shouting about ‘sporting integrity’, so provided these clubs maintain their position in the league setup by fair means, then attendances should not matter a jot.

[jacomo]

So you are suggesting that we close down clubs and then start a new one with no history, no support and no stadium, all the clubs you mention punch well above their weight. They deserve our respect.


:agree:

It’s not the authorities to decide how many clubs there should be and where they should be. They need to create a competitive structure for them to play in.

[WhileTheChief..]

Do they need to be part of the professional leagues though? Couldn’t they play local or junior leagues? I don’t know, just throwing it out there.

We complain when Hamilton only only bring a handful of fans but it’s not exactly the clubs fault.

If if we want fuller stadiums across the country then maybe that kinda drastic action is required.

As for merging Hibs and Hearts, it’s hardly comparable really is it.

Cowdenbeaths history? What have ever contributed to the game? Chasing fans away? ICT get more fans than the 2 previous clubs I bet and they’ve won a trophy and played in the top flight.

There’s plenty clubs have never had a sniff and never will. They don’t produce players that bigger clubs snap up and basically offer nowt to the game.

If they merged they might do a bit better. They couldn’t really do any worse!

[Ozyhibby]

Im not advocating team mergers but it is not quite accurate to suggest these clubs pay their own way. The long tail of the Scottish football dog is heavily subsidised by the top league. Without that money, many would close.


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[Austinho]

Take out the huge sheep and sevco away supports they had at Murrayfield and their average drops quite a bit.They also reported the recent Kilmarnock attendance at 15,862 despite there being 10k there tops, due to the weather.

Both clubs report the tickets sold apparently, but it’s obvious we’ve already had more bums on seats this season even including the novelty of their Murrayfield experience.

[hibbysam]

Im not advocating team mergers but it is not quite accurate to suggest these clubs pay their own way. The long tail of the Scottish football dog is heavily subsidised by the top league. Without that money, many would close.


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The top league isn’t going away though, but it is still their money, they budget with that guaranteed. That’s what you get a tv deal for. If they didn’t get that money I’m sure they would budget accordingly. We are subsidised heavily by the old firm, does that mean we don’t pay our way?

Regardless the argument for closing teams down to make our game better is completely bonkers.

[NOLA]

The top league isn’t going away though, but it is still their money, they budget with that guaranteed. That’s what you get a tv deal for. If they didn’t get that money I’m sure they would budget accordingly. We are subsidised heavily by the old firm, does that mean we don’t pay our way?

Regardless the argument for closing teams down to make our game better is completely bonkers.

Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country


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Or not enough people :greengrin

[jgl07]

Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country



What an inane comment.

There are a lot more clubs in Scotland than those listed. There are the Senior Leagues (Highland and Lowland, East of Scotland and South of Scotland before we get on to the Juniors. May of the Junior teams get better support than some SPFL.

England has vastly more clubs but only gives League status (PL plus EFL) to 92 clubs. Scotland gives it to 42 (SPFL) with less than 10% of the population. Redesignating the bottom two SPFL divisions as Seniors rather than SPFL would do bugger-all for anyone.

Merging clubs is bad news for all concerned. Had Inverness Caley gone alone into the SFL I suspect that would have had a better support than ICT have now. Many defected to Ross County in protest over the merger. It left a feeling of bitterness with many.

[davhibby]

It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

It’s a sensible but sensitive option.

Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

It’s ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

I know it’s not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called ‘’a good community club’ just doesn’t cut it.

What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!

Has it really worked for ICT fan wise? Ross County up the road continually get bigger crowds, over double what ICT manage this season albeit in the championship. Merging clubs will never work, if it was a good suggestion some of the smaller clubs in the country would havs done it already

[KWJ]

Those numbers mean that between Hibs, Hearts and Edinburgh City around 7% of Edinburgh's population attend the games along with away fans. This too will be slightly inflated because of Hearts' Murrayfield adventure.

Stenhousemuir has around 4% of their population attend their games which is pretty decent in my book considering the quality, their bogging strips, the amount of teams around them and the lure of a big team.

There's nothing to suggest that one of their ST holders is any less passionate than one of ours.

Killie are averaging 12.5% which is huge!

[Dashing Bob S]

All this guff about club size and attendances is Jambo nonsense. We are a small country and well run clubs, whatever their fanbase, deserve to progress in a performance based sport. There are many more populous European countries than Scotland where small clubs have survived, even occasionally thrived in the top divisions. Yes, its bad when clubs are inflated to levels they shouldn't be at, by spending money they don't have through rich owners (or worse, through bumped businesses and Lithuanian taxpayers), but that applies to the entire EPL as well as the Gretnas of this world.

What's wrong with a club like Hamilton, who bring through plenty of young, talented local players, progressing on footballing merit rather than the number of bodies who they bring to support them at away games?

[SirDavidsNapper]

Would a Cowdenbeath fan care any less about their club than we do about Hibs? As a Fifer i'm well aware of the affection Dunfermline, Raith Rovers and East fife fans have for their clubs and they all have a history they can be extremely proud of. Dunfermline have a huge fan base and really should be a Premiership club imo.

These clubs are a huge part of the local communities and a staple part of a lot of peoples weekends. I think amalgamating clubs is a terrible idea. A regionalised system would make sense but not sure how it would work.

[Johnny_Leith]

All this guff about club size and attendances is Jambo nonsense. We are a small country and well run clubs, whatever their fanbase, deserve to progress in a performance based sport. There are many more populous European countries than Scotland where small clubs have survived, even occasionally thrived in the top divisions. Yes, its bad when clubs are inflated to levels they shouldn't be at, by spending money they don't have through rich owners (or worse, through bumped businesses and Lithuanian taxpayers), but that applies to the entire EPL as well as the Gretnas of this world.

What's wrong with a club like Hamilton, who bring through plenty of young, talented local players, progressing on footballing merit rather than the number of bodies who they bring to support them at away games?

This. All this dick measuring cringy.

[hibbyfraelibby]

We need to cut the Professional game to 24 clubs max with the rest regionalised and absolutely strict stadium criteria

I know the 8/8/8 split got short shrift from the difficult of thinking but two qualifying leagues of 12 play each other twice and split.

Top 8 play each other again from scratch. No points carry over gives 36 games. Means a cut of 1 x home game on average but that can happen even with current set up.

Bottom 4 of tier1 and top 4 of tier2 play each other and at end the best 4 join the top qualifying tier next season. Possible 4 team churn but adds a bit bite to game.

Bottom 8 teams plus top 4 from each new regional Highland/Lowland leagues split into two seeded pools of 8. Top 4 from each pool into 2nd tier qualifying league next season.

Means Highland/Lowland regional leagues need to have adjusted season timetable, inc summer football.

Throw in a revamped single cup competition and the revenues are preserved maximised.

Meaningfull football throught the season and marketable to TV

[southern hibby]

Maybe if we were to stop sectarianism at football and give it a generation or two then the Celtic or The Rangers religious bigots offspring might support a local team rather than travelling the length and breadth of the country to Spey their bile at one another. Unfortunately I’m probably hoping for a miracle.

GGTTH

[danhibees1875]

Cowdenbeath in trouble:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/618128/cowdenbeath-fc-crisis-raised-parliament-amid-fears-club-faces-closure-within-year/

Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?

[Greentinted]

Cowdenbeath in trouble:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/618128/cowdenbeath-fc-crisis-raised-parliament-amid-fears-club-faces-closure-within-year/

Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?

From wiki:

From season 2014–15, the bottom League Two team enters into a play-off against the winner of a play-off between the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues.[4] If the Highland or Lowland team wins the final, they are promoted to League Two, with the team finishing 10th being relegated to either the Highland or Lowland league. If the League Two side prevails, they retain their place in the following season's competition.[4]

[danhibees1875]

From wiki:

From season 2014–15, the bottom League Two team enters into a play-off against the winner of a play-off between the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues.[4] If the Highland or Lowland team wins the final, they are promoted to League Two, with the team finishing 10th being relegated to either the Highland or Lowland league. If the League Two side prevails, they retain their place in the following season's competition.[4]

:aok: so it's not a foregone conclusion. Thanks.

I assume if they went into the lowlands and the winners came up from the Highlands then the team located geographically central would flip flop between leagues. In this instance, I think that would actually be cowdenbeath - the travel costs of being in the highland league would be a nightmare.

[Sauzee16]

:aok: so it's not a foregone conclusion. Thanks.

I assume if they went into the lowlands and the winners came up from the Highlands then the team located geographically central would flip flop between leagues. In this instance, I think that would actually be cowdenbeath - the travel costs of being in the highland league would be a nightmare.

Yeah Cowdenbeath would go into the lowland league following east Stirling.

[danhibees1875]

Yeah Cowdenbeath would go into the lowland league following east Stirling.

If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?

[Sauzee16]

If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?

I think Cowdenbeath would be put in the lowland with only one promotion instead of two from the league below with two promotions from the league below the highland league. Not that many of the highland league teams want to reach the spfl.

[Greentinted]

I think Cowdenbeath would be put in the lowland with only one promotion instead of two from the league below with two promotions from the league below the highland league. Not that many of the highland league teams want to reach the spfl.

Correct me if I'm wrong but was there not a recent case of a Highland League club knocking promotion back?

[Sauzee16]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was there not a recent case of a Highland League club knocking promotion back?

I think the last Highland champions (Brora maybe) that are spending money on old pros didn’t fancy it much and didn’t compete well in the final against the lowland champions.

[ElginHibbie]

I think the last Highland champions (Brora maybe) that are spending money on old pros didn’t fancy it much and didn’t compete well in the final against the lowland champions.

Brora actually won the first Highland/Lowand league play off but then lost against Montrose, won the first leg though. There chairman said the below though so yeah obviously not keen

"looked at all options and there's no way we can avoid competing. We meet SPFL criteria for entry level so we can’t opt out, we’ve got to go for it."

[eastcoasthibby]

If we are talking about clubs merging how could/would it work if a junior club wanted to merge with a smaller senior club ..in order to make a stronger club ! I realise that a major issue of mergers relate to history, town associations, independence, pride, ... Would the key part be about ambition, and /or financial capability making the club more solid.

[hibbyfraelibby]

If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?

No

[where'stheslope]

Cowdenbeath in trouble:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/618128/cowdenbeath-fc-crisis-raised-parliament-amid-fears-club-faces-closure-within-year/

Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?

I had heard of this and was 1 of the reasons I said about merging clubs!

Its not just the fact that they have small crowds, its also that their stadia is falling apart and with low crowds there is no way they can afford to upgrade it.

I know it is hard for supporters to lose their club (just ask Third Lanark) but with a merger they have a chance of having a say in the new club, rather than being lost to football forever!!!!

[Keith_M]

I had heard of this and was 1 of the reasons I said about merging clubs!

Its not just the fact that they have small crowds, its also that their stadia is falling apart and with low crowds there is no way they can afford to upgrade it.

I know it is hard for supporters to lose their club (just ask Third Lanark) but with a merger they have a chance of having a say in the new club, rather than being lost to football forever!!!!


Cold hard facts suggest that there's just not enough interest in some of these small towns for the local teams.

Maybe crowds of 3-400 is enough to keep a Lowland League team going but any club with ambitions to be even a semi-pro, national league team needs a bigger support base.