Just when you thought things were as bad as they could get

[Glory Lurker]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-delivering-on-pledge-to-give-back-british-expats-the-right-to-vote


The idiots are well and truly at the wheel. If you’ve left a country you shouldn’t get a say in how it’s run, any more than you should still get to vote in council elections for an area you used to live in. Ridiculous proposal in itself, but for me another example of this country going backwards at a frightening rate of knots, and a further dollop of despair that we didn’t take the opportunity to get out in 2014.

[IGRIGI]

Not really connected but interestingly enough Italy actually has overseas constituencies that send members of parliament to Rome just to represent Italians abroad.

I'm Scottish living in France and not bothered about voting in the UK election, it's been years since I lived back in Scotland so I have much more interest in voting here in France.

In saying that though I'll probably vote SNP to noise up the yoons:greengrin

[snooky]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-delivering-on-pledge-to-give-back-british-expats-the-right-to-vote


The idiots are well and truly at the wheel. If you’ve left a country you shouldn’t get a say in how it’s run, any more than you should still get to vote in council elections for an area you used to live in. Ridiculous proposal in itself, but for me another example of this country going backwards at a frightening rate of knots, and a further dollop of despair that we didn’t take the opportunity to get out in 2014.

If you can't see through the underlying reason behind this move .... well you should.

[danhibees1875]

Why are people that upset by this?

I don't really know much about it, it reads like emigrants can still vote for 15 years after they leave but the proposal is to make that indefinite.

I've no idea what the figures are for how many people that would cover or how it would skew any results, but I really don't see the fuss here.

[Glory Lurker]

Why are people that upset by this?

I don't really know much about it, it reads like emigrants can still vote for 15 years after they leave but the proposal is to make that indefinite.

I've no idea what the figures are for how many people that would cover or how it would skew any results, but I really don't see the fuss here.

So, you’re happy with someone who emigrated in the 50s or 60s (or later), and who has no intention of coming back to this country, having a say in how we’re run? That is indefensible as a principle, add on that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that qualify (and I think the 15 year rule is a load of nonsense, too), and it is a farce. If you leave, you leave. Akin to giving prisoners the vote.

[Hibrandenburg]

So, you’re happy with someone who emigrated in the 50s or 60s (or later), and who has no intention of coming back to this country, having a say in how we’re run? That is indefensible as a principle, add on that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that qualify (and I think the 15 year rule is a load of nonsense, too), and it is a farce. If you leave, you leave. Akin to giving prisoners the vote.

:agree: expats are akin to criminals. :rolleyes:

[Glory Lurker]

:agree: expats are akin to criminals. :rolleyes:

Eh, easy chief. Point is, if you think convicts should lose the vote, why should someone who has left the country have a vote? What’s the difference?

[Steve-O]

Why are people that upset by this?

I don't really know much about it, it reads like emigrants can still vote for 15 years after they leave but the proposal is to make that indefinite.

I've no idea what the figures are for how many people that would cover or how it would skew any results, but I really don't see the fuss here.

If ex-pats had gotten to vote in the independence referendum, Scotland might well be independent now.

[Beefster]

If ex-pats had gotten to vote in the independence referendum, Scotland might well be independent now.

Unlikely. It would have needed huge numbers of them to register and, even assuming all registered and voted, it would have needed a huge majority in favour of independence.

[danhibees1875]

So, you’re happy with someone who emigrated in the 50s or 60s (or later), and who has no intention of coming back to this country, having a say in how we’re run? That is indefensible as a principle, add on that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that qualify (and I think the 15 year rule is a load of nonsense, too), and it is a farce. If you leave, you leave. Akin to giving prisoners the vote.

There are millions abroad yes, but how many of them have been abroad for more than 15 years and therefore will actually experience any change with this proposal? (Rhetorical, as I don't think that data is easy to find)

I'm not sure if expats should or shouldn't vote, that's a separate issue and one I've not considered. But for this thread I just think there would be so few people affected with so little impact on results that I just can't see the fuss to warrant such a strong thread title.

[Hibrandenburg]

Eh, easy chief. Point is, if you think convicts should lose the vote, why should someone who has left the country have a vote? What’s the difference?

I understand you're point but think comparing expats with criminals is utterly ridiculous.

There's still many arguments for giving expats a vote. Many expats still work for UK companies and are thus still obliged to pay UK taxes and NI subscription. Whilst many will be able to claim taxes back due to non residency their NI contributions can't be claimed back.

Also many expats still have an invested interest in the UK and have things like property or business interests. They may well also be pensioners who have worked all their lives in the UK and paid into the UK system before deciding to spend their twighlight years abroad. Why shouldn't they have a say on who governs what happens to their pension that they've already paid up in full?

You might also want to take into account that it was (still is for now) perfectly legal and acceptable for people to move, work and live anywhere in the EU and many took up that offer in good faith, to disenfranchise them now from the democratic process that has now left them high and dry is in my opinion completely perverse and to say they should be treated democratically akin to criminals is stupidity of the highest order.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I dont really understand why the anger?

If we accept the premise of a nation, then surely you accept that people are either part of it or are not?

If these ex-pats are Scottish / English / British, i dont see why they shouldnt vote.

Fwiw, i think that all Scots should habe been able to vote in the indyref, but i accept that forbthe yes side, that would have been difficult and dragged them into territory about ethnicity etc that they are very careful to avoid.

I dont get the comparison with a convict st all - its not illegal to live abroad.

[Hibrandenburg]

I dont really understand why the anger?

If we accept the premise of a nation, then surely you accept that people are either part of it or are not?

If these ex-pats are Scottish / English / British, i dont see why they shouldnt vote.

Fwiw, i think that all Scots should habe been able to vote in the indyref, but i accept that forbthe yes side, that would have been difficult and dragged them into territory about ethnicity etc that they are very careful to avoid.

I dont get the comparison with a convict st all - its not illegal to live abroad.

:agree: If you're entitled to hold the passport of a nation because you are a citizen of that nation then you should be entitled/obliged to uphold/receive all the responsibilities and entitlements that come with it.

[Peevemor]

I'm a firm believer that everyone should use their vote and did so myself, without fail, until moving across here in 2004. I haven't registered to vote from abroad as I don't think it's right. I made the choice to live, work and pay my taxes in France and don't see why should have even the most miniscule influence on elections in Scotland and the UK. With that said, I remain very much Scottish. I could probably get French nationality should I apply, but I'll never be French.

[Pretty Boy]

How does an ex-pat vote in a UK election? Is it based on the last constituency they lived in?

[Hibrandenburg]

How does an ex-pat vote in a UK election? Is it based on the last constituency they lived in?

That's how it used to be for me.

[Scouse Hibee]

For me expats should be like social members of my bowls club as opposed to full members, they don't get to vote at the AGM.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

For me expats should be like social members of my bowls club as opposed to full members, they don't get to vote at the AGM.

But they are still allowed to moan at people who dont use a tray bringing drinks from the bar 😊?

[Glory Lurker]

Can I just make totally clear that i’m not calling expats criminals! :greengrin

My point about convicts is that they made a decision that had consequences. Consequence of moving away from UK is that you (eventually) lose the vote. It makes no sense that folk who aren’t going to come back for years - or ever - should have a say on what happens here, and how would you show you were going to return in the lifetime of that Parliament which is the only reason I can see for having a vote?

In 1990 or thereabouts the Tories extended or at least were looking to extend the period to twenty years. It was designed to boost the Tory vote. No surprise it’s a Tory government promoting this one.

[Hibrandenburg]

Can I just make totally clear that i’m not calling expats criminals! :greengrin

My point about convicts is that they made a decision that had consequences. Consequence of moving away from UK is that you (eventually) lose the vote. It makes no sense that folk who aren’t going to come back for years - or ever - should have a say on what happens here, and how would you show you were going to return in the lifetime of that Parliament which is the only reason I can see for having a vote?

In 1990 or thereabouts the Tories extended or at least were looking to extend the period to twenty years. It was designed to boost the Tory vote. No surprise it’s a Tory government promoting this one.

After the Brexit ****up the Tories would get hammered by expats. For what it's worth when I left the laws were different regarding overseas voters and I'm sure it'll change again.

[Scouse Hibee]

But they are still allowed to moan at people who dont use a tray bringing drinks from the bar 😊?

No enforced tray rule at my club.🍻

[Steve-O]

Unlikely. It would have needed huge numbers of them to register and, even assuming all registered and voted, it would have needed a huge majority in favour of independence.

I don’t know anyone here in NZ who wouldn’t have (a) registered and (b) voted yes.

[Steve-O]

How does an ex-pat vote in a UK election? Is it based on the last constituency they lived in?

Correct.

[Beefster]

I don’t know anyone here in NZ who wouldn’t have (a) registered and (b) voted yes.

Unless you know hundreds of thousands of Scottish ex-pats, my post still stands though.

[Caversham Green]

Unless you know hundreds of thousands of Scottish ex-pats, my post still stands though.

It's also worth noting that in the context of that referendum 'ex-pats' would have included those Scots living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. I suspect it would have been largely in their interests to vote no.

[1875godsgift]

It's also worth noting that in the context of that referendum 'ex-pats' would have included those Scots living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. I suspect it would have been largely in their interests to vote no.

What makes you think that?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

What makes you think that?

I remembet reading something at the time that ex-pat Scots were strongly pro-union, but i dont know what it was based on, or how accurate it is.

[Caversham Green]

What makes you think that?

Regardless of how independence panned out the separation would almost certainly have created complications for those of us who would have suddenly found themselves living in a foreign country. We would have suffered all the problems without getting any of the benefits.

Personally, I would have reluctantly voted no for that reason and having discussed it at the time with about a dozen Scots living down here (and one living in Wales) I found all were of much the same opinion. Not absolute proof, but probably a fair guide.

[Future17]

I remembet reading something at the time that ex-pat Scots were strongly pro-union, but i dont know what it was based on, or how accurate it is.

I worked on the IndyRef in a neutral capacity. My experience of the hundreds, if not thousands, of disenfranchised people we spoke to was strongly pro-independence. I would guesstimate about 80-85%.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I worked on the IndyRef in a neutral capacity. My experience of the hundreds, if not thousands, of disenfranchised people we spoke to was strongly pro-independence. I would guesstimate about 80-85%.

Fair enough, you obviously have more experience of it than i do. Im curious aboit your terminology though...

Disenfranchised is quite a strong word - are you apllying that to Scots living outside of Scotland?

(I dont have an issue either way, just curious!)

[Future17]

Fair enough, you obviously have more experience of it than i do. Im curious aboit your terminology though...

Disenfranchised is quite a strong word - are you apllying that to Scots living outside of Scotland?

(I dont have an issue either way, just curious!)

Fair point - it maybe has a negative connotation. I just meant those who weren't included in the franchise (i.e. weren't allowed to vote).