PDA

View Full Version : Hibs need a formal system for releasing unused season tickets



Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 10:57 AM
Although Hibs have sold all their tickets for the Hearts and Aberdeen (only a few dozen left) games, there will still be empty seats due to season ticket holders not being able to attend. This is particularly noticeable in the FF Stand because of all the kids tickets.

Currently there are a few fans who know to release their tickets back to the club, but I think there should be a more structured, and publicised, method.

I don't think that people should be paid for doing so, but some sort of credit towards next year's season ticket might be an incentive.

As I type this, I'm thinking that as we don't have all that many genuinely sold out games where we can't use the south stand for "overflow", it's probably more hassle than it's worth for Hibs to set something up.

That's a shame, if it's the case, cos being in a properly full Easter Road is an awesome experience.

Geo_1875
08-02-2018, 11:01 AM
Although Hibs have sold all their tickets for the Hearts and Aberdeen (only a few dozen left) games, there will still be empty seats due to season ticket holders not being able to attend. This is particularly noticeable in the FF Stand because of all the kids tickets.

Currently there are a few fans who know to release their tickets back to the club, but I think there should be a more structured, and publicised, method.

I don't think that people should be paid for doing so, but some sort of credit towards next year's season ticket might be an incentive.

As I type this, I'm thinking that as we don't have all that many genuinely sold out games where we can't use the south stand, it's probably more hassle than it's worth for Hibs to set something up.

That's a shame, if it's the case, cos being in a properly full Easter Road is an awesome experience.

EPL clubs using Ticketmaster have a formal system that kicks in when the game is offically sold out. You can release your ST seat for sale on the system and receive 30% of the price, if your ticket is sold, towards "club cash" which can be used in a variety of ways, including a credit towards the following seasons ST.

Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 11:04 AM
EPL clubs using Ticketmaster have a formal system that kicks in when the game is offically sold out. You can release your ST seat for sale on the system and receive 30% of the price, if your ticket is sold, towards "club cash" which can be used in a variety of ways, including a credit towards the following seasons ST.

And there it is. 👍

Renfrew_Hibby
08-02-2018, 11:05 AM
That's a cracking idea Geo_1875

mutley
08-02-2018, 11:23 AM
As a ST holder that works/lives away most of the time, this sort of thing would really appeal to me

JeMeSouviens
08-02-2018, 11:26 AM
By the time you take off 30% and pay whatever the scheme costs to administer, I doubt Hibs would make much. You probably need nearly every game to be a sell out before that kind of thing is worthwhile.

It might be easier just to send an email appeal to all ST holders each time we're near a sell out asking those not going to release seats?

Since90+2
08-02-2018, 11:28 AM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

Phil MaGlass
08-02-2018, 11:30 AM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

This, too many empty seats.

IWasThere2016
08-02-2018, 11:30 AM
EPL clubs using Ticketmaster have a formal system that kicks in when the game is offically sold out. You can release your ST seat for sale on the system and receive 30% of the price, if your ticket is sold, towards "club cash" which can be used in a variety of ways, including a credit towards the following seasons ST.


Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

Agree with OP and both these posts.

Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 11:30 AM
By the time you take off 30% and pay whatever the scheme costs to administer, I doubt Hibs would make much. You probably need nearly every game to be a sell out before that kind of thing is worthwhile.

It might be easier just to send an email appeal to all ST holders each time we're near a sell out asking those not going to release seats?

I'm less bothered about Hibs making oodles of cash, than having the stadium full.

An email would have limited effect. I don't think 30% would be necessary. Even a fiver back as incentive would increase returns dramatically.

It only costs 5p to buy a plastic carrier bag, but people won't pay it. The same principle would apply, imo.

Geo_1875
08-02-2018, 11:37 AM
I shouldn't imagine the set-up costs would be much as it's already part of Ticketmaster's service offering. The ongoing costs could be met out of resales. Any money going to Hibs is profit.

Onceinawhile
08-02-2018, 11:37 AM
It's also really noticeable in the east stand. More so for me than the ff lower actually.

Vini1875
08-02-2018, 11:41 AM
I'm less bothered about Hibs making oodles of cash, than having the stadium full.

An email would have limited effect. I don't think 30% would be necessary. Even a fiver back as incentive would increase returns dramatically.

It only costs 5p to buy a plastic carrier bag, but people won't pay it. The same principle would apply, imo.

Maybe on a full price season ticket, but the FF kids season ticket is £25 so a fiver back would create a profit by not going to any games. The club could look at how to achieve some sort of returns policy without it costing us at all. In reality it is only necessary for 6 home games. Selling our v Aberdeen is a new one. Hopefully as crowds improve with our success it becomes for of an issue, but in the mean time it is something for the club to look at. Email to Frank and Tracey.

danhibees1875
08-02-2018, 11:45 AM
I have a rangers supporting friend who has a season ticket but rarely goes (3 games this year - defeats to Hibs, Celtic, and Hibs again :faf: ). They have a system where you get money back for releasing your ticket but only if then ALL released tickets are subsequently resold do you get any cash - this results in him rarely getting anything back apparently.

Generally I agree, £5 off at the club shop or next year's ST per game missed would be a nice touch - without any of the above loopholes. Would encourage further purchases from the club as you have money off and also help persuade people who are put off committing to a season ticket because they know missing 2/3 games puts them out of pocket.

Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 11:57 AM
Maybe on a full price season ticket, but the FF kids season ticket is £25 so a fiver back would create a profit by not going to any games. The club could look at how to achieve some sort of returns policy without it costing us at all. In reality it is only necessary for 6 home games. Selling our v Aberdeen is a new one. Hopefully as crowds improve with our success it becomes for of an issue, but in the mean time it is something for the club to look at. Email to Frank and Tracey.

It wouldn't really matter if the ST holder made a profit. Hibs would have gained even more from having sold an adult Cat A ticket. Also, the "profit" would have to be used against a future ST, hospitality or in the club shop.

The number of games we sell out are extremely limited at the moment anyway, so I do think that it's worth looking at for next season, if not this year's games after the split.

scott_b_
08-02-2018, 12:07 PM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

Either that or cancel your season ticket if you don't make it to X amount of games, or the price increases or something? All for cheap tickets if people use them, but if our crowds continue you could have a situation were adults willing to pay £300+ per season are struggling for decent seats because there are stacks of unused 25 quid kids season tickets.... The huns at home was a near sellout I think and it was half empty, as it is most games.

May2116
08-02-2018, 12:12 PM
Surely if you buy a £25 season ticket, an adult buys it for £28 and you get 30% back (£7.40) then you basically get a free season ticket if you release your ST 3 times.

Why do people always want stuff for nothing? You buy your season ticket, not to be recompensed for missed games, the only benefit you should need is seeing your club make ££££ from resold seats for the sake of you sending an email that takes 30 seconds.

Blaster
08-02-2018, 12:25 PM
Either that or cancel your season ticket if you don't make it to X amount of games, or the price increases or something? All for cheap tickets if people use them, but if our crowds continue you could have a situation were adults willing to pay £300+ per season are struggling for decent seats because there are stacks of unused 25 quid kids season tickets.... The huns at home was a near sellout I think and it was half empty, as it is most games.

I assume your cancel season tickets for non attendance would apply to everyone not just family season ticket holders

I think folk are getting a wee bit carried away with 1 season of fantastic crowds. If this was to happen for another couple of seasons then we should look at options. But letís not be creating disharmony for season ticket holders to benefit some big game only fans who may struggle to get a ticket

seanshow
08-02-2018, 12:48 PM
Surely if you buy a £25 season ticket, an adult buys it for £28 and you get 30% back (£7.40) then you basically get a free season ticket if you release your ST 3 times.

Why do people always want stuff for nothing? You buy your season ticket, not to be recompensed for missed games, the only benefit you should need is seeing your club make ££££ from resold seats for the sake of you sending an email that takes 30 seconds.

Thats the problem with the various concession ST's,I would go for, releasing a full price seat and receive a £5 voucher for the club shop up to (4 per season)
Releasing any other seat - Nothing

...And get a big advert/link/button on the main page of the Hibs official website that can be triggered when it is needed.

marinello59
08-02-2018, 12:49 PM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

You do realise that these cheap season tickets have to be bought along with at least one adult season ticket. Increasing the cost for families attending matches would be short sighted to say the least.

hibsforeurope
08-02-2018, 12:53 PM
Having an option on the online sales site should be set up, I'm not too fussy about getting anything back personally as the club would benefit financially. I'd just prefer the process to be much easier than having to send an email to the club, which may or may not get auctioned depending on how busy they are.

Having a list of the games with a tick box next to it online that can be unchecked for the games you can't attend would be easiest.

Since90+2
08-02-2018, 12:53 PM
You do realise that these cheap season tickets have to be bought along with at least one adult season ticket. Increasing the cost for families attending matches would be short sighted to say the least.

Yes I realise that, still think £25 is too cheap though. Even at £50 it would be less than £3 a game which is phenomenal value and easily within the financial reach of the vast vast majority of families.

The other issue is that they are clearly not attending that many matches as shown by the empty seats everyweek.

SChibs
08-02-2018, 12:54 PM
Thats the problem with the various concession ST's,I would go for, releasing a full price seat and receive a £5 voucher for the club shop up to (4 per season)
Releasing any other seat - Nothing

...And get a big advert/link/button on the main page of the Hibs official website that can be triggered when it is needed.

This was my idea too, make the vouchers expire at the end of May so they need to be used before the new strip comes out or people would just use them for that. Only get the voucher if someone buys your seat though.

The club would make money from that system imo

hibsforeurope
08-02-2018, 12:55 PM
You do realise that these cheap season tickets have to be bought along with at least one adult season ticket. Increasing the cost for families attending matches would be short sighted to say the least.

Is this the case with historic £25 tickets? I'm not sure these were cancelled when the new approach was introduced and could still be getting renewed.

Daydreamer
08-02-2018, 12:56 PM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.


Best idea I've heard on here for a long time

One Day Soon
08-02-2018, 01:01 PM
I have a few mates who cannot commit to season tickets just now - working away regularly, family commitments etc. I have no doubt that if we introduced a system that allowed you to resell your seat for any games you were going to miss -and a share of thhat revenue came to you in the form of a discount off next year's season ticket - they would absolutely buy season tickets for next season which they otherwise would not touch.

So, you'd get more bums on seats on match days for atmosphere, the club would pull in more revenue from the re-sales and the club would also sell more season tickets in the first place.

What am I missing?

Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 01:07 PM
Surely if you buy a £25 season ticket, an adult buys it for £28 and you get 30% back (£7.40) then you basically get a free season ticket if you release your ST 3 times.

Why do people always want stuff for nothing? You buy your season ticket, not to be recompensed for missed games, the only benefit you should need is seeing your club make ££££ from resold seats for the sake of you sending an email that takes 30 seconds.

Of course you're right.

However, that's not the reality, it's wishful thinking.

There are any number of reasonable things that people wouldn't do if they weren't coerced or rewarded

May2116
08-02-2018, 01:18 PM
Of course you're right.

However, that's not the reality, it's wishful thinking.

There are any number of reasonable things that people wouldn't do if they weren't coerced or rewarded

The reward would be more money in the clubs account meaning we can afford better players meaning when they can make it theyíll be seeing a far better quality (hopefully) of player.

Scouse Hibee
08-02-2018, 01:24 PM
Surely if you buy a £25 season ticket, an adult buys it for £28 and you get 30% back (£7.40) then you basically get a free season ticket if you release your ST 3 times.

Why do people always want stuff for nothing? You buy your season ticket, not to be recompensed for missed games, the only benefit you should need is seeing your club make ££££ from resold seats for the sake of you sending an email that takes 30 seconds.

So Hibs get to sell my seat twice? No thanks, if I miss a game I always try to give it away, failing that it will remain empty.

May2116
08-02-2018, 01:26 PM
So Hibs get to sell my seat twice? No thanks, if I miss a game I always try to give it away, failing that it will remain empty.

What difference does it make to you if your not going? The sort of selfish attitude that will stop us maximising our revenue in years to come.

Swedish hibee
08-02-2018, 01:29 PM
It'd only when you play a really big game that you sell out. Shouldn't you rather be trying to fill the few thousand empty seats with new ST holders first?

Scouse Hibee
08-02-2018, 01:33 PM
What difference does it make to you if your not going? The sort of selfish attitude that will stop us maximising our revenue in years to come.

Yep the same attitude that has seen me a season ticket holder lose out because the loyalty scheme was scrapped, lose the the chance of a cup top up, lose the discount off a shirt in the club shop,sit in a stand that no one can tell what row they are in because there is no signage . I remember when being a season ticket holder had a few added benefits that made you feel valued. Not any more and now you want me to let the club make even more money from my seat. No ****** chance, loyalty is two way thing. I will continue as I have done since 92 and purchase a ST but I won't contribute further.

May2116
08-02-2018, 01:41 PM
Yep the same attitude that has seen me a season ticket holder lose out because the loyalty scheme was scrapped, lose the the chance of a cup top up, lose the discount off a shirt in the club shop,sit in a stand that no one can tell what row they are in because there is no signage . I remember when being a season ticket holder had a few added benefits that made you feel valued. Not any more and now you want me to let the club make even more money from my seat. No ****** chance, loyalty is two way thing. I will continue as I have done since 92 and purchase a ST but I won't contribute further.

So like I said your one of the ones that want something for nothing. The club donít e you a favour back in the day by giving a few nice added touches, when in reality the only benefit you should need from buyin g a season ticket is you get a guaranteed seat at every home game at a much reduced rate to a walk up supporter, and the club can then buy players early due to having the money up front.

I find it astonishing that people hold removing the c up top up against the club. They were losing an absolute fortune on it year on year because of our home ties, so not only do you want the club not to make added money, you want them to lose out on money for your own personal gain. Unbelievable.

KWJ
08-02-2018, 01:43 PM
Yep the same attitude that has seen me a season ticket holder lose out because the loyalty scheme was scrapped, lose the the chance of a cup top up, lose the discount off a shirt in the club shop,sit in a stand that no one can tell what row they are in because there is no signage . I remember when being a season ticket holder had a few added benefits that made you feel valued. Not any more and now you want me to let the club make even more money from my seat. No ****** chance, loyalty is two way thing. I will continue as I have done since 92 and purchase a ST but I won't contribute further.

FFS. Hope I'm in your seat after I've shifted about for a better view and feel a good fart coming on.

Scouse Hibee
08-02-2018, 01:48 PM
So like I said your one of the ones that want something for nothing. The club donít e you a favour back in the day by giving a few nice added touches, when in reality the only benefit you should need from buyin g a season ticket is you get a guaranteed seat at every home game at a much reduced rate to a walk up supporter, and the club can then buy players early due to having the money up front.

I find it astonishing that people hold removing the c up top up against the club. They were losing an absolute fortune on it year on year because of our home ties, so not only do you want the club not to make added money, you want them to lose out on money for your own personal gain. Unbelievable.

Unbelievable right enough, the amount of folk that think the club actually still value tbem.

Scouse Hibee
08-02-2018, 01:49 PM
FFS. Hope I'm in your seat after I've shifted about for a better view and feel a good fart coming on.

Wow yeah that would really annoy me.😩

Keith_M
08-02-2018, 01:52 PM
If anybody doesn't want Hibs to get any more money from re-selling their seat when they can't make it, then surely it's as simple as just not registering to have it re-sold.


I didn't feel the main point the OP was making (tho I could be wrong) was one of extra money, but to allow the empty seats to be filled (i.e. improved atmosphere) and to allow people to see the game that might otherwise miss it (the Hearts game's already sold out)

I can't see anything wrong with that.

May2116
08-02-2018, 01:55 PM
Unbelievable right enough, the amount of folk that think the club actually still value tbem.

Or the club cannot continue to lose a shed load of money on schemes that have that sole purpose, so got rid of said scheme to maximise revenue and put the b eat team on the park, that funnily enough seems to be happening at this moment in time.

Hermit Crab
08-02-2018, 02:05 PM
If your seat is resold by the club for a game you cant make then a percentage of that sale should be discounted from next years season ticket.

CapitalGreen
08-02-2018, 02:09 PM
Yep the same attitude that has seen me a season ticket holder lose out because the loyalty scheme was scrapped, lose the the chance of a cup top up, lose the discount off a shirt in the club shop,sit in a stand that no one can tell what row they are in because there is no signage . I remember when being a season ticket holder had a few added benefits that made you feel valued. Not any more and now you want me to let the club make even more money from my seat. No ****** chance, loyalty is two way thing. I will continue as I have done since 92 and purchase a ST but I won't contribute further.

I can't imagine ever being this angry at club shop discount and row numbers.

Scouse Hibee
08-02-2018, 02:17 PM
I can't imagine ever being this angry at club shop discount and row numbers.

I'm far from angry.

Lix
08-02-2018, 02:26 PM
Tottenham allow you to re-list when a match is nearing sold out or sold out.
If said seat is resold then I get 1/19th of ST cost, as cash or credit against next ST.
I think this is very fair. Clubs can't expect us, plead in our case, folk to buy ST's then expect us to give them back for nowt when not attending.
I've done it twice this season at Spurs, obviously a 90k stadium doesn't allow me many opportunities to resell, but next season I expect I will be able to relist every game if I wanted to.


Cheers
Mr Lix

P's, all done via ticketmaster and is very easy to do.

Jones28
08-02-2018, 02:46 PM
Next season the kids season ticket should be increased in price IMO.

Even doubling the price to £50 it would still be fantastic value and maybe we would see a reduction in people getting a £25 ticket and not showing up.

Agree with this.

IWasThere2016
08-02-2018, 03:06 PM
So Hibs get to sell my seat twice? No thanks, if I miss a game I always try to give it away, failing that it will remain empty.

Such a system as proposed would not stop you doing that. But if you could not give it away - the club might gain.

Otherwise, I am not sure I will ever understand your way of thinking on this one.

HibbyAl
08-02-2018, 03:20 PM
I have a few mates who cannot commit to season tickets just now - working away regularly, family commitments etc. I have no doubt that if we introduced a system that allowed you to resell your seat for any games you were going to miss -and a share of thhat revenue came to you in the form of a discount off next year's season ticket - they would absolutely buy season tickets for next season which they otherwise would not touch.

So, you'd get more bums on seats on match days for atmosphere, the club would pull in more revenue from the re-sales and the club would also sell more season tickets in the first place.

What am I missing?

They wouldn't resell your seat for every game they couldn't make. Only for completely sold out games.

Geo_1875
08-02-2018, 03:57 PM
Tottenham allow you to re-list when a match is nearing sold out or sold out.
If said seat is resold then I get 1/19th of ST cost, as cash or credit against next ST.
I think this is very fair. Clubs can't expect us, plead in our case, folk to buy ST's then expect us to give them back for nowt when not attending.
I've done it twice this season at Spurs, obviously a 90k stadium doesn't allow me many opportunities to resell, but next season I expect I will be able to relist every game if I wanted to.


Cheers
Mr Lix

P's, all done via ticketmaster and is very easy to do.

Most (all?) EPL clubs will have the same Ticketmaster system in place. How much you get back and how you can spend it will vary from club to club. I've relisted my seat for a number of West Ham games and very rarely it doesn't sell. It's a no brainer for the bigger clubs as they have a large number of foreign or long distance ST holders who won't make every game and they sell-out most weeks. It's different in Hibs case as it would only really apply about 6-7 times a season.

One Day
08-02-2018, 04:34 PM
EPL clubs using Ticketmaster have a formal system that kicks in when the game is offically sold out. You can release your ST seat for sale on the system and receive 30% of the price, if your ticket is sold, towards "club cash" which can be used in a variety of ways, including a credit towards the following seasons ST.

that's a good idea

Golden Bear
08-02-2018, 04:42 PM
Thats the problem with the various concession ST's,I would go for, releasing a full price seat and receive a £5 voucher for the club shop up to (4 per season)
Releasing any other seat - Nothing

...And get a big advert/link/button on the main page of the Hibs official website that can be triggered when it is needed.

There's nothing to prevent the Club from selling a released concession ST at full price, it doesn't have to be resold as a concession.

WhileTheChief..
08-02-2018, 05:05 PM
Folk want paid for not going to ER? Thatís defo a new one!

bigwheel
08-02-2018, 05:10 PM
Folk want paid for not going to ER? Thatís defo a new one!


there have been a few times when I would have paid to get out! :wink:

Hibbyradge
08-02-2018, 05:29 PM
Such a system as proposed would not stop you doing that. But if you could not give it away - the club might gain.

Otherwise, I am not sure I will ever understand your way of thinking on this one.

It's a bit like refusing to tick the gift aid box when giving to charity.

It's costs the donators nothing to do it and the charity benefits.

Lix
08-02-2018, 05:37 PM
Most (all?) EPL clubs will have the same Ticketmaster system in place. How much you get back and how you can spend it will vary from club to club. I've relisted my seat for a number of West Ham games and very rarely it doesn't sell. It's a no brainer for the bigger clubs as they have a large number of foreign or long distance ST holders who won't make every game and they sell-out most weeks. It's different in Hibs case as it would only really apply about 6-7 times a season.

At Spurs, I've only been allowed to re-list about 5 or 6 times so far this season, yes, that's due to a 90k stadium.

Ticketmaster, every club will have a different system, you get what you pay for!

Question: how much does WH charge someone buying your relisted seat?
Spurs charge £7 booking fee on someone buying my seat. So cost passed on?

Cheers
Mr Lix

Skol
08-02-2018, 07:00 PM
I tried to give back my ST earlier but couldnt get hold of Hibs to do so. Didnt bother trying again for the next 2.

The guy beside me clearly managed to do so for the Rangers game. The person who sat there was ignorant and full of sectarian and racist nonsense. I dont think he actually was sectarian or racist. Just not very clever or self aware

hibee
08-02-2018, 07:00 PM
I donít miss many games but would be happy to release our seats if getting some money back for it otherwise I wouldnít bother doing it. I think itís only fair if the seat is resold then the season ticket holder gets all or some of the money back whether itís a credit or cash wouldnít matter to me.

IWasThere2016
08-02-2018, 08:23 PM
It's a bit like refusing to tick the gift aid box when giving to charity.

It's costs the donators nothing to do it and the charity benefits.

Precisely.

PerfectlyFranck
09-02-2018, 12:09 AM
It's getting a bit irksome at how often I release my seat because the date/time changes of fixtures are preventing me from going. We seem to play more evening games than I can ever remember. It's a great problem to have though and I'd rather this was the issue than us struggling to fill half the stadium!

It would be interesting to know how many of the unused seats tend to be adult/concession tickets. I believe that the amount of seats that may be unused for recent sellouts is negligible for the club to pursue; it's rather pointless for the club to put resources into at this moment in time. Maybe when this stretches to 'Category-B' games, it could be worth looking into; we still have plenty of the South available for most games.

With regard to 'Category-A' games, I would prefer to see the club allocating more of the South to Hibs supporters for games against Celtc & Rangers than trying to entice people to give back their season ticket seat for resale. I understand the club would spend more resources and make less money due to segregation, but I would prefer to see the club speculate on non-regular Hibbies frequently attending Category-A games, after a long period of struggling to get half as many in for our biggest games.

hibby6270
09-02-2018, 12:30 AM
EPL clubs using Ticketmaster have a formal system that kicks in when the game is offically sold out. You can release your ST seat for sale on the system and receive 30% of the price, if your ticket is sold, towards "club cash" which can be used in a variety of ways, including a credit towards the following seasons ST.

Jeezo. If itís administered by Ticketmaster, what could possibly go wrong??
They can barely operate purchasing tickets when itís busy (cup games, etc). Goodness knows what adding another service to an already shaky set up would bring. Wouldnít hold my breath!!

That said, it is a great idea.:greengrin

monktonharp
09-02-2018, 12:49 AM
I donít miss many games but would be happy to release our seats if getting some money back for it otherwise I wouldnít bother doing it. I think itís only fair if the seat is resold then the season ticket holder gets all or some of the money back whether itís a credit or cash wouldnít matter to me.I have missed at least 6 games, and wish I had taken the trouble to inform the club. they could have resold my seat and I would not care less if they made money on it. I got my ST to put money into my club. I hope to get to most, in the run in but if there are any that I cant make and they might be near sell outs I will call the ticket office at least. I don't understand the Scouser's attitude at all.:confused:

monktonharp
09-02-2018, 12:52 AM
I donít miss many games but would be happy to release our seats if getting some money back for it otherwise I wouldnít bother doing it. I think itís only fair if the seat is resold then the season ticket holder gets all or some of the money back whether itís a credit or cash wouldnít matter to me.you think its fair, others might too. Me, don't give a flyin', tae say the least

monktonharp
09-02-2018, 12:57 AM
It's getting a bit irksome at how often I release my seat because the date/time changes of fixtures are preventing me from going. We seem to play more evening games than I can ever remember. It's a great problem to have though and I'd rather this was the issue than us struggling to fill half the stadium!

It would be interesting to know how many of the unused seats tend to be adult/concession tickets. I believe that the amount of seats that may be unused for recent sellouts is negligible for the club to pursue; it's rather pointless for the club to put resources into at this moment in time. Maybe when this stretches to 'Category-B' games, it could be worth looking into; we still have plenty of the South available for most games.

With regard to 'Category-A' games, I would prefer to see the club allocating more of the South to Hibs supporters for games against Celtc & Rangers than trying to entice people to give back their season ticket seat for resale. I understand the club would spend more resources and make less money due to segregation, but I would prefer to see the club speculate on non-regular Hibbies frequently attending Category-A games, after a long period of struggling to get half as many in for our biggest games.that is a point that I will gladly agree on. we cant get enough seats for Glasgow games, and we cant get enough seats at home when playing Glasgow teams. they, on the other hand, pen us in with a paltry amount and treat us as ****

hibby6270
09-02-2018, 01:03 AM
I do understand where Scouse Hibby is coming from but sadly itís an indictment of the world we live in today. Mars Bars arenít the same size they were 10 years ago and are dearer but people still buy them. Same with a lot of foods and household items.
Unfortunately same principle is being applied to ST benefit. As long as the core purpose is being made available we have to suck it up even though some of the added benefits we used to have are a thing of the past. It wonít change any time in the future.
Back when we were relegated, I was very vocal at the fact ST holders were being asked to continue paying Premiership prices for 1st Division games. Eventually my wrath calmed downed and was placated fully after taking full advantage of the CTU in the 15/16 season. We know that led to 2 finals and a certain day in May 2016.:thumbsup:

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2018, 04:58 AM
I do understand where Scouse Hibby is coming from but sadly itís an indictment of the world we live in today. Mars Bars arenít the same size they were 10 years ago and are dearer but people still buy them. Same with a lot of foods and household items.
Unfortunately same principle is being applied to ST benefit. As long as the core purpose is being made available we have to suck it up even though some of the added benefits we used to have are a thing of the past. It wonít change any time in the future.
Back when we were relegated, I was very vocal at the fact ST holders were being asked to continue paying Premiership prices for 1st Division games. Eventually my wrath calmed downed and was placated fully after taking full advantage of the CTU in the 15/16 season. We know that led to 2 finals and a certain day in May 2016.:thumbsup:

Yes valid points, but remember I too have continued to buy a season ticket along with a Mars bar. I won't be returning them to Mars to resell though as I realise I can't eat them before the use by date!

BlackSheep
09-02-2018, 06:48 AM
I really donít get some posters on here... maybe itís a generational thing, maybe they werenít encouraged to share when they were children.

I for one hated sharing my things, cos no doubt they would come back to me in worse condition than went they were lent out.

But this is a whole different kettle of fish!

If you cannot make a match then what does it matter to you if the club resell it?? I tend to give my ST to friends when I cannot make it... whether the club agree or not. If no one wanted the ST for a match I would let the club know they could resell it because every penny counts in Scottish football....!! And I do not expect any recompense for doing so... because itís my choice to give it back, Iím not being forced by the club or by other fans, I am choosing to Ďdonateí my ticket back to the club, so the club can benefit.

I am really really struggling to see why some fans are angry about the suggestion of Ďdonatingí their ticket back to the club for these situations or expecting something in return....!

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2018, 06:53 AM
I really donít get some poster on here... maybe itís a generational thing, maybe they werenít encouraged to share when they were children.

I for one hated sharing my things, cos no doubt they would come back to me in worse condition than went they were lent out.

But this is a whole different kettle of fish!

If you cannot make a match then what does it matter to you if the club resell it?? I tend to give my ST to friends when I cannot make it... whether the club agree or not. If no one wanted the ST for a match I would let the club know they could resell it because every penny counts in Scottish football....!! And I do not expect any recompense for doing so... because itís my choice to give it back, Iím not being forced by the club or by other fans, I am choosing to Ďdonateí my ticket back to the club, so the club can benefit.

I am really really struggling to see why some fans are angry about the suggestion of Ďdonatingí their ticket back to the club for these situations or expecting something in return....!

I'm not angry, as you have said it's your choice to give it back, it's also my choice not to it's as simple as that. As for your amateur psychology theory about sharing as a child, nice theory but not true.

VivaPalmeiras
09-02-2018, 07:41 AM
Itís a matter of choice. I donít think any fan should be thought any more/less of because they do/donít allow their seat to go to resell.

What I would observe tho is this % significant? Do the club have figures (they must do otherwise the system and security is stuffed)

What would this mean for me future loyalty scheme - would resold tickets count the same as a normal walk up?

SunshineOnLeith
09-02-2018, 08:01 AM
I really donít get some posters on here... maybe itís a generational thing, maybe they werenít encouraged to share when they were children.

I for one hated sharing my things, cos no doubt they would come back to me in worse condition than went they were lent out.

But this is a whole different kettle of fish!

If you cannot make a match then what does it matter to you if the club resell it?? I tend to give my ST to friends when I cannot make it... whether the club agree or not. If no one wanted the ST for a match I would let the club know they could resell it because every penny counts in Scottish football....!! And I do not expect any recompense for doing so... because itís my choice to give it back, Iím not being forced by the club or by other fans, I am choosing to Ďdonateí my ticket back to the club, so the club can benefit.

I am really really struggling to see why some fans are angry about the suggestion of Ďdonatingí their ticket back to the club for these situations or expecting something in return....!

Who's angry?

WhileTheChief..
09-02-2018, 08:12 AM
I usually go with my dad and out of the folk sitting around us Iím the youngest by a good 20 years probably!

If I donít go and release my ticket then he could be left sitting with some complete thug that shouts and swears through the whole game and is a general pain in the ass.

Onceinawhile
09-02-2018, 09:40 AM
Best idea I've heard on here for a long time

So I should be hit with a £50 increase on my season tickets bill because other people don't show up? An extra £50 On top would probably mean not being able to get my sons' season tickets or my own.

Danderhall Hibs
09-02-2018, 09:48 AM
So like I said your one of the ones that want something for nothing. The club donít e you a favour back in the day by giving a few nice added touches, when in reality the only benefit you should need from buyin g a season ticket is you get a guaranteed seat at every home game at a much reduced rate to a walk up supporter, and the club can then buy players early due to having the money up front.

I find it astonishing that people hold removing the c up top up against the club. They were losing an absolute fortune on it year on year because of our home ties, so not only do you want the club not to make added money, you want them to lose out on money for your own personal gain. Unbelievable.

Arenít the club wanting something for nothing? The ST holder has paid for a seat he might not use but the club want to sell this again?

Hibbyradge
09-02-2018, 09:55 AM
Arenít the club wanting something for nothing? The ST holder has paid for a seat he might not use but the club want to sell this again?

That'll be the club we support.

Another way to look at it is that a Hibs fan who you don't know will get to see the game.

It's a win/win/win situation.

The fan wins, Hibs win and the ST holder wins (if there's a % returned).

Why anyone would prefer a Lose/lose/lose is baffling, but there's no accounting for folk.

Golden Bear
09-02-2018, 09:55 AM
Surely it's up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to put their ticket up for resale? Personally I don't have a problem, I've e mailed the Club twice this season to make my concessionary season ticket available and if they can resell it at full price then so be it. At the end of the day it's more money in the pot.

wookie70
09-02-2018, 10:36 AM
I go with three kids to the West Upper. If one of them don't go(very unlikely to be me as 1. I'm tight and 2. Hibs beat pretty much every other type of engagement for me and I am clear about that with my family) then I always try to get one of their mates to attend of upgrade it and get a mate to come along. I have thought about releasing their tickets a few times but then I have no idea who will get it and I sit surrounded by great supporters and have no issue with the kids. The last thing I want is a fan who is drunk, screaming and shouting obscenities. From my experience the games that releasing unused tickets would be the games where fans are most likely to have a few bevvies and those getting the unused tickets are the most likely to have not been to a game for years. The type of fans that mean I try never to sit behind the goals a semis and finals because the behaviour is so poor.

If there is a day when all three kids don't go then I'll release them but until them I'll probably stick with giving them to friends for no cost.

CMurdoch
09-02-2018, 12:32 PM
Cheap kids tickets should stay cheap but should not be valid for games against Hearts, Celtic or Rangers
Alternatively the adult would have to email the club no more than a week before matches against the above 3 clubs if the kid is going to attend the match otherwise the club will release the kids ticket for purchase.

ancient hibee
09-02-2018, 05:45 PM
Arenít the club wanting something for nothing? The ST holder has paid for a seat he might not use but the club want to sell this again?


Don't understand.Who ever buys the seat gets a match to watch.In fact it's the same deal we all get.Do you think that is the club wanting something for nothing?

Danderhall Hibs
09-02-2018, 06:19 PM
Don't understand.Who ever buys the seat gets a match to watch.In fact it's the same deal we all get.Do you think that is the club wanting something for nothing?

I was reading a few comments saying that ďpeopleĒ want money for nothing, ie by asking for money back for the ticket theyíve paid for.

By releasing it to the club they get to sell it for a 2nd time meaning they get £50+ for one seat - thatís money for nothing isnít it?

Danderhall Hibs
09-02-2018, 06:20 PM
That'll be the club we support.

Another way to look at it is that a Hibs fan who you don't know will get to see the game.

It's a win/win/win situation.

The fan wins, Hibs win and the ST holder wins (if there's a % returned).

Why anyone would prefer a Lose/lose/lose is baffling, but there's no accounting for folk.


Aye the club we support. They get to sell a seat to 2 folk so get free money.

BlackSheep
09-02-2018, 06:33 PM
I'm not angry, as you have said it's your choice to give it back, it's also my choice not to it's as simple as that. As for your amateur psychology theory about sharing as a child, nice theory but not true.

You come across as pretty miffed to be honest, and my statement wasnít really specifically about you. This debate has been going on for a while and this season it has gathered steam as our recent success and now our place in the top tier only adds to the debate.

We all want Hibs to do well, and if helping fund the club helps with Hibs future success then I am happy to do so, any fan should be happy to contribute.... it costs you nothing to donate your seat back to the club when you cannot attend and it makes the club more money. Hibs are not expecting you to dig deeper in your pockets, in fact they are not even formally asking you to donate anything.... it just seems that those who are reluctant to do so when it comes at no cost to those fans is a bit rubbish!!

I can see I will never Ďwiní this debate....

Hibbyradge
09-02-2018, 06:34 PM
Aye the club we support. They get to sell a seat to 2 folk so get free money.

That's a good thing, right?

More money for the club, more fans at the game, better atmosphere.

Danderhall Hibs
09-02-2018, 07:49 PM
That's a good thing, right?

More money for the club, more fans at the game, better atmosphere.

I suppose it is. My point which I seem to be having difficulty in making clear is folk were being criticised for wanting ďsomething for nothingĒ whereas actually itís Hibs that want/are getting ďsomething for nothingĒ.

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2018, 07:50 PM
You come across as pretty miffed to be honest, and my statement wasnít really specifically about you. This debate has been going on for a while and this season it has gathered steam as our recent success and now our place in the top tier only adds to the debate.

We all want Hibs to do well, and if helping fund the club helps with Hibs future success then I am happy to do so, any fan should be happy to contribute.... it costs you nothing to donate your seat back to the club when you cannot attend and it makes the club more money. Hibs are not expecting you to dig deeper in your pockets, in fact they are not even formally asking you to donate anything.... it just seems that those who are reluctant to do so when it comes at no cost to those fans is a bit rubbish!!

I can see I will never Ďwiní this debate....

As I said mate it's about choices and opinions. There doesn't have to be a 'winner' surely? This board is all about discussion and as long as it stays free from personal insults which it has then it's good to talk/ discuss these issues.

BlackSheep
09-02-2018, 08:03 PM
As I said mate it's about choices and opinions. There doesn't have to be a 'winner' surely? This board is all about discussion and as long as it stays free from personal insults which it has then it's good to talk/ discuss these issues.

I totally agree mate, at the end of the day itís only football.

Out of interest, where is your ST seat...? In future if you canít make it Iím sure I may know a few folk that would be interested in Ďbuyingí your seat for any sold out matches 😊

Just Alf
09-02-2018, 08:15 PM
I suppose it is. My point which I seem to be having difficulty in making clear is folk were being criticised for wanting ďsomething for nothingĒ whereas actually itís Hibs that want/are getting ďsomething for nothingĒ.I hear you..... I think what's making it difficult for you getting that message across is that, so far, Hibs are not even in the discussions...
As it stands, getting tickets put back onto the availability list is costing them manpower etc to manage it, so while they should make money by reselling those tickets it'll be less than a straight sale... That said... Anything that brings in revenue to the club can only ever be a good thing.



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2018, 08:24 PM
I totally agree mate, at the end of the day itís only football.

Out of interest, where is your ST seat...? In future if you canít make it Iím sure I may know a few folk that would be interested in Ďbuyingí your seat for any sold out matches 😊

It's in the West Upper Row HH, I have a couple of regular recipients if I can't make it, I have never charged anyone to use it nor would I. It's been paid for..... once by me. 😁

jabis
09-02-2018, 08:43 PM
I'm not angry, as you have said it's your choice to give it back, it's also my choice not to it's as simple as that. As for your amateur psychology theory about sharing as a child, nice theory but not true.

Hmmm,Everton fan obviously,mind you,the me,me,me,suggests Liverpool.
Defo(havint seen that bad boy in a while😁) a jamboree !

Seriously,why trumpet the fact......."it's ma ticket........I'm gonna be in Blackpool gettin' pissed.....YOU arny getting it.....at any price"

?

Scouse Hibee
09-02-2018, 08:51 PM
Hmmm,Everton fan obviously,mind you,the me,me,me,suggests Liverpool.
Defo(havint seen that bad boy in a while😁) a jamboree !

Seriously,why trumpet the fact......."it's ma ticket........I'm gonna be in Blackpool gettin' pissed.....YOU arny getting it.....at any price"

?

Never understood a word of that.😁

Swedish hibee
09-02-2018, 10:50 PM
Until the day that Hibs sell out every game and fans are left wanting a ticket- why all the anger on here? It's very rarely a fan can't get a seat at ER.

jgl07
09-02-2018, 10:56 PM
I shouldn't imagine the set-up costs would be much as it's already part of Ticketmaster's service offering. The ongoing costs could be met out of resales. Any money going to Hibs is profit.

It wouldn't be any profit to Hibs except for a complete sell-out (Hearts, OF).

For the Aberdeen match, for example, reselling season tickets rather than shifting South Stand tickets would leave the club out of pocket.

B.H.F.C
09-02-2018, 11:04 PM
Until the day that Hibs sell out every game and fans are left wanting a ticket- why all the anger on here? It's very rarely a fan can't get a seat at ER.

Not that rare these days. Both Hearts games have sold out. The Rangers one before Christmas did as it will when we next play them at ER.

Doesnít sound much when you put it like that but itís getting on for a quarter of our home games in the league. When it is Ďsold outí but a number of seats are left unoccupied, and people who want to go canít despite that, then I donít think itís unreasonable for folk to raise questions on it.

jabis
10-02-2018, 12:13 AM
Never understood a word of that.😁

That makes two of us .
Have a great weekend :flag:

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 08:42 AM
I suppose it is. My point which I seem to be having difficulty in making clear is folk were being criticised for wanting ďsomething for nothingĒ whereas actually itís Hibs that want/are getting ďsomething for nothingĒ.

Hibs are not really getting something for nothing in this Ďdealí... football is an entertainment business and they are providing a service which people pay for by buying a ticket to watch.

If you buy a season ticket but cannot go and then offer to donate it back to the club, it benefits the club financially, yes, but is that not a good thing.... we are not a club that doesnít need money are we?

Im not trying to stir anything but the idea that one should get something in return for donating their seat back is just greed, imho.

The question that seems to go unanswered on these debates is why donít those unwilling to release/donate their seat back on these occasions want to help out the club financially as well as fill the home seats to help boost the overall atmosphere for these big matches...???

i am keen on reiterating the term donate as this to me is the best way to describe this action. In other words, when one donates funds/clothes/food to charity, do you then stand with your hands out waiting for something in return?

percy veer
10-02-2018, 08:59 AM
Cheap kids tickets should stay cheap but should not be valid for games against Hearts, Celtic or Rangers
Alternatively the adult would have to email the club no more than a week before matches against the above 3 clubs if the kid is going to attend the match otherwise the club will release the kids ticket for purchase.


Utter dross , so kids can take in the delights of Ross county , Hamilton and Dundee but come to the big games leave them out so some Johnny come lately who does not have a season ticket may I add get one before them, you obviously don't have kids.

SRHibs
10-02-2018, 09:04 AM
Hibs are not really getting something for nothing in this Ďdealí... football is an entertainment business and they are providing a service which people pay for by buying a ticket to watch.

If you buy a season ticket but cannot go and then offer to donate it back to the club, it benefits the club financially, yes, but is that not a good thing.... we are not a club that doesnít need money are we?

Im not trying to stir anything but the idea that one should get something in return for donating their seat back is just greed, imho.

The question that seems to go unanswered on these debates is why donít those unwilling to release/donate their seat back on these occasions want to help out the club financially as well as fill the home seats to help boost the overall atmosphere for these big matches...???

i am keen on reiterating the term donate as this to me is the best way to describe this action. In other words, when one donates funds/clothes/food to charity, do you then stand with your hands out waiting for something in return?

I think it strikes a good middle ground to incentivise it though. You will of course get people who will donate their seat regardless, for the good of the club. Then others who would much rather just play the waiting game and see if anyone they know wants it - a mindset that could be altered by adding an incentive for donating unused tickets in sold-out games.

Even if it was money off items bought in the shop, or something alone those lines.

percy veer
10-02-2018, 09:16 AM
Personally I don't think hibs do need a system for unused tickets, how many games so far this season have we needed to do this 3? Seems a lot of effort for such a small amount of games.

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 10:23 AM
I suppose it is. My point which I seem to be having difficulty in making clear is folk were being criticised for wanting ďsomething for nothingĒ whereas actually itís Hibs that want/are getting ďsomething for nothingĒ.

I think there may have been a bit of virtue signalling going on.

Of course people should get something back if they release their seats. It would be a reward and an incentive.

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 10:31 AM
Personally I don't think hibs do need a system for unused tickets, how many games so far this season have we needed to do this 3? Seems a lot of effort for such a small amount of games.

Hibs have asked for people to release their seats for the Hearts game if they're not going to be used.

Eyrie
10-02-2018, 10:55 AM
Utter dross , so kids can take in the delights of Ross county , Hamilton and Dundee but come to the big games leave them out so some Johnny come lately who does not have a season ticket may I add get one before them, you obviously don't have kids.

A compromise could be for the child's season ticket to be activated for the big game at a cost of a fiver, but with a cut off point after which the seat is released to general sale. That way the seat is still there for the child to use if desired.

May2116
10-02-2018, 11:28 AM
I think there may have been a bit of virtue signalling going on.

Of course people should get something back if they release their seats. It would be a reward and an incentive.

Then itís pointless, IMO, doing it as the amount the club would actually make is minimal. Folk spend £25 on a season ticket, sell it back to the club for X amount, club make £14 on child buying said ticket but need to pay a decent portion of that out to the season ticket holder.

Honestly canít understand why people, who have already committed to buying ST, would want some of that back when they canít make the and, thus taking money back out of the club when the whole point f it is to give the club as much money as possible (without them having to spend a penny more than they already have).

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 11:37 AM
Then itís pointless, IMO, doing it as the amount the club would actually make is minimal. Folk spend £25 on a season ticket, sell it back to the club for X amount, club make £14 on child buying said ticket but need to pay a decent portion of that out to the season ticket holder.

Honestly canít understand why people, who have already committed to buying ST, would want some of that back when they canít make the and, thus taking money back out of the club when the whole point f it is to give the club as much money as possible (without them having to spend a penny more than they already have).

Hibs don't think it's pointless. They've asked people to release their seats.

It's also not pointless for the fans who get to see the game.

Have you ever said or thought "I can't be arsed" about doing something simple? Have you ever forgotten to do something?

I'm sorry, I can't be arsed helping you understand the effect of practical incentive on motivation any better than that.

SunshineOnLeith
10-02-2018, 11:39 AM
If, as we all hope, this season isn't a flash in the pan as regards attendances, then Hibs will need to look at the pricing of season tickets again - in particular the £25 kids tickets. It makes no business sense to sell tickets for an entire season for £25 when a large proportion of them go unused in games where they could be sold for £28 for that fixture alone.

I don't know what the best solution is, maybe start selling parent and child 'cat B' season tickets in the South lower for £300ish? With a 'bolt on' of, say, £25 for additional children.

I've also never really agreed with Hibs' flat-pricing for tickets. The tickets on the halfway line should, in my opinion, be a few quid more expensive than in the corner of the FF. And I say that as someone who'd probably stump up for the more expensive option.

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 01:23 PM
I think there may have been a bit of virtue signalling going on.

Of course people should get something back if they release their seats. It would be a reward and an incentive.

Why should non attendance be rewarded??? A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, otherwise pay at the gate and take your chances!!

Why are so many failing to see that Ďdonatingí your unused ST seat back to the club benefits the club and no one else....! That should be inventive enough!! Showing a little extra SUPPORT for your club!!

Why else do you bother attending games other than to support Hibs, both in spirit and financially!!

You can be a fan of a club and never buy a single match ticket or pieces of merchandise... or you can be a supporter and do as much as you can to support the club!

Rocky
10-02-2018, 01:44 PM
I think the £25 season ticket is a great idea when supply exceeds demand. Even if a kid only goes to four games a season that's fine by me - maybe they'll go to six next season, a dozen the season after that and become full paying adult season ticket holders in due course.

However now that we're at the stage of selling out big matches I think it's time for a rethink of pricing structure. I'd make it £25 for Cat B games only, and if you want Cat A games included you pay full kids price for it (think that's about £75?). That way it's accessible for parents who want to ease their kids in gently, and it's still great value at around £4 a game for kids who want to go to every game. It means people are making a conscious choice up front on whether they'll take kids to hearts / Rangers / Celtic matches so should be fewer empty seats too.

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 01:46 PM
The issue is not entirely isolated to the pricing of kids season tickets, there are lots of adult season tickets bought purely to Ďsupportí the club and only a handful of matches are attended... when this is the case I find it difficult to grasp why some of these Ďsupporterí feel they should be rewarded for their non attendance when asked to donate their seat back for the sell out games.

lucky
10-02-2018, 01:55 PM
Iíll miss the derby, it will be my fourth game Iíve missed due to illness, family and work commitments. But Iíll still renew as I like sitting with my mates and giving Hibs my contribution. For sell out matches Hibs should have a simple system for releasing your seat. Whether you should get credit for doing that Iím not sure. But one thing we all like to see the stadium full

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 02:05 PM
Why should non attendance be rewarded??? A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, otherwise pay at the gate and take your chances!!

Why are so many failing to see that Ďdonatingí your unused ST seat back to the club benefits the club and no one else....! That should be inventive enough!! Showing a little extra SUPPORT for your club!!

Why else do you bother attending games other than to support Hibs, both in spirit and financially!!

You can be a fan of a club and never buy a single match ticket or pieces of merchandise... or you can be a supporter and do as much as you can to support the club!

No-one is failing to see anything.

Currently loads of people, for various reasons, do not release their unused seats, regardless of what you think should be their moral duty.

If you want that situation to continue, fine, then the club should do nothing.

I want more folk to release their seats. Offering a small financial incentive will help achieve that.

It may also encourage more people to buy season tickets in the first place.

Why are you failing to see the logic in that?

matty_f
10-02-2018, 02:08 PM
Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 02:17 PM
Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

Hibs aren't in any position to be turning their noses up at extra cash, regardless of the amount. Why else do they sell all the cheap stuff in the shop, some of which can only net them a few pence?

I'd offer a small discount towards next year's ST assuming the ticket is resold. £4 maybe.

Adult Cat A tickets cost £28. They've previously sold kids tickets for about £1 per game. Any additional income is a result.

Since90+2
10-02-2018, 02:38 PM
Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

If Hibs resell a ticket for £20 and have to give back the original purchaser £5 for the privilege they will increase revenue. Whether they have spent the original season ticket money or not is irrelevant.

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 03:13 PM
No-one is failing to see anything.

Currently loads of people, for various reasons, do not release their unused seats, regardless of what you think should be their moral duty.

If you want that situation to continue, fine, then the club should do nothing.

I want more folk to release their seats. Offering a small financial incentive will help achieve that.

It may also encourage more people to buy season tickets in the first place.

Why are you failing to see the logic in that?

Itís absolutely nothing to do with morals!! Itís to do with SUPPORTING your club... there is a huge difference between supporting and being a fan.

Iím not sure this debate is as subjective as what many are making out.

And still nobody on the opposing view from my own has answered the question, to what benefit is it to you to not release your unused seat for no recompense??

If someone can justify why one deserves a reward for donating your unused seat back to the club for big games then I will put my hands up and listen to your point.

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 03:16 PM
If Hibs resell a ticket for £20 and have to give back the original purchaser £5 for the privilege they will increase revenue. Whether they have spent the original season ticket money or not is irrelevant.

Do away season ticket holders get a refund when they cannot make a game? I dont think so. So why should that differ for home season tickets? If there was a way to donate your ticket back to the club easily then it should be seen as a donation, cos at that point you have already paid your fee and itís down to you to fulfill your end of you season ticket purchase, if the club then resell your seat then you are not out of pocket and the club reap the rewards!

Isnít this what all supporters should want for their club?

Since90+2
10-02-2018, 03:23 PM
Do away season ticket holders get a refund when they cannot make a game? I dont think so. So why should that differ for home season tickets? If there was a way to donate your ticket back to the club easily then it should be seen as a donation, cos at that point you have already paid your fee and itís down to you to fulfill your end of you season ticket purchase, if the club then resell your seat then you are not out of pocket and the club reap the rewards!

Isnít this what all supporters should want for their club?

You're asking why the away season ticket should differ from the home season ticket in terms of a revenue redistribution system?

Surely anyone with half a brain can figure out the difference id have thought.

Hibbyradge
10-02-2018, 03:31 PM
Itís absolutely nothing to do with morals!! Itís to do with SUPPORTING your club... there is a huge difference between supporting and being a fan.

Iím not sure this debate is as subjective as what many are making out.

And still nobody on the opposing view from my own has answered the question, to what benefit is it to you to not release your unused seat for no recompense??

If someone can justify why one deserves a reward for donating your unused seat back to the club for big games then I will put my hands up and listen to your point.

There is no reason I can think of, but no matter how much you preach about supporting the club, the reality is that loads of folk don't bother contacting the club to release their seats, which is why we can sell out but not have a full stadium.

Even a small incentive for releasing seats would encourage bigger actual attendances, leading to a better atmosphere for everyone, and more money for Hibs.

Your determination to prevent anyone benefitting, even slightly, from releasing their seat would ensure none of that happened.

percy veer
10-02-2018, 03:36 PM
Hibs have asked for people to release their seats for the Hearts game if they're not going to be used.


Yeah thats not a system , it's just a request which is enough as we don't sell out many games

Swedish hibee
10-02-2018, 03:54 PM
Why should non attendance be rewarded??? A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, otherwise pay at the gate and take your chances!!

Why are so many failing to see that Ďdonatingí your unused ST seat back to the club benefits the club and no one else....! That should be inventive enough!! Showing a little extra SUPPORT for your club!!

Why else do you bother attending games other than to support Hibs, both in spirit and financially!!

You can be a fan of a club and never buy a single match ticket or pieces of merchandise... or you can be a supporter and do as much as you can to support the club!

Many overseas Hibby's have a ST, we don't attend every game- so don't you want them buying one anymore then?

BlackSheep
10-02-2018, 04:13 PM
Many overseas Hibby's have a ST, we don't attend every game- so don't you want them buying one anymore then?

I an earlier post I have said exactly the opposite of this, I understand that many overseas supporters buy tickets and make only handful of games. But if that seat then sits empty most of the season would they want it filled and helping the club to profit.

I donít think incentive is the issue, I think itís clarity and ease of use in how to donate your seat back to the club thatís the issue.

Most folk wonít know that they can do so.

hibsboy07
10-02-2018, 11:00 PM
Cheap kids tickets should stay cheap but should not be valid for games against Hearts, Celtic or Rangers
Alternatively the adult would have to email the club no more than a week before matches against the above 3 clubs if the kid is going to attend the match otherwise the club will release the kids ticket for purchase.

Good idea but would it not be better to make the cheap tickets cat b only with the holder getting first choice on cat a games

Johnny Clash
11-02-2018, 10:15 AM
Entry to Easter Road is nowadays computerised. Swiping your barcode records your entry which makes it easy to see the STs that havenít attended that game.

Itís simple to work out if there are seats that regularly remain empty for sold out games. Hibs could then take the opportunity to get a specific message out to those who bought these STs explaining how easy it is to release any seats that will be unused for the benefit of other Hibs fans and the club we all support.

We could even give the option to donate that seat to a member of the community not able to afford a ticket - registered unemployed? Main thing is that we fill the stadium with Hibees supporting the team!

WhileTheChief..
11-02-2018, 10:27 AM
That still doesnít address the point that I donít want some drunk Beggbie type character sitting in my seat annoying the folk I usually go with.

BlackSheep
11-02-2018, 10:28 AM
Entry to Easter Road is nowadays computerised. Swiping your barcode records your entry which makes it easy to see the STs that havenít attended that game.

Itís simple to work out if there are seats that regularly remain empty for sold out games. Hibs could then take the opportunity to get a specific message out to those who bought these STs explaining how easy it is to release any seats that will be unused for the benefit of other Hibs fans and the club we all support.

We could even give the option to donate that seat to a member of the community not able to afford a ticket - registered unemployed? Main thing is that we fill the stadium with Hibees supporting the team!

This is a very sensible solution, with a good cause at its heart... at the end of the day we want a full stadium and the club to do well. Any ideas around fans being reimbursed for donating their tickets for resell or like this poster suggest, for those less fortunate, need to be muted.

Hibbyradge
11-02-2018, 11:42 AM
That still doesnít address the point that I donít want some drunk Beggbie type character sitting in my seat annoying the folk I usually go with.

I understand that concern.

The reality is that it's very unlikely that such a scenario would materialise. Most folk are perfectly reasonable when they're at the match, particularly as everyone is on the database. There are stewards and police to deal with the tiny number who aren't.

May2116
11-02-2018, 09:44 PM
Hibs don't think it's pointless. They've asked people to release their seats.

It's also not pointless for the fans who get to see the game.

Have you ever said or thought "I can't be arsed" about doing something simple? Have you ever forgotten to do something?

I'm sorry, I can't be arsed helping you understand the effect of practical incentive on motivation any better than that.

What I meant was pointless is if it is incentivised. Hibs obviously want you to release seats now as it is financially beneficial to the club, but if they had to pay out a portion of that on both a formal system and an incentive then the profit margin is decreased massively and IMO would be pointless.

The way it is now Iím all for, getting as many through he gate as possible and gets as much cash as possible into the club.

bigwheel
11-02-2018, 10:01 PM
Who cares about formal systems or money back.....just think - we are now at a place where we sell out home games! Can you imagine that....it's ****ing magic ! [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jgl07
13-02-2018, 12:09 AM
Tottenham allow you to re-list when a match is nearing sold out or sold out.
If said seat is resold then I get 1/19th of ST cost, as cash or credit against next ST.
I think this is very fair. Clubs can't expect us, plead in our case, folk to buy ST's then expect us to give them back for nowt when not attending.
I've done it twice this season at Spurs, obviously a 90k stadium doesn't allow me many opportunities to resell, but next season I expect I will be able to relist every game if I wanted to.


Manchester City do the same except that it only counts as credit against renewal and only if the ticket is resold. They also restrict the number of tickets that can be resold in a season (six?).

This works well for the club as a ticket for Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United, Spurs, etc. will sell for top prices (circa £60) when the ticket holder may only receive £17-£30 or so. Tickets for less popular or midweek matches are less likely to sell.

midfield_maestro
13-02-2018, 12:20 PM
A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, Er, no it isn't. There is ZERO commitment to attend any match, never mind every.

BlackSheep
13-02-2018, 01:23 PM
Er, no it isn't. There is ZERO commitment to attend any match, never mind every.

While the actual definition of a season ticket isnít to Ďcommití to attend every match, in football itís in spirit a commitment to attend, as you are paying to guarantee your seat for every home match at a discounted price (from purchasing every ticket individually).

While I understand your need to post this point, I donít see how it furthers the discussion?

It actually raises debate surrounding the purchasing of ST with NO intention to attend in some of the more desirable areas/seats... but letís not open that can of worms right now.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 09:58 AM
Someone on Facebook has advertised 4 season tickets which will be unused on Saturday.

He knows that they can be released back to the club, but he wants cash for them. If they're not sold by Friday pm, he's going to contact the club. No doubt at that late stage, those seats will remain empty.

Given that there are still seats available in the South Stand, no-one who wants to go to the match should miss out, but for our Cat A games, when the south isn't available, it makes sense, on various levels, to have a formal system in place to encourage the release of unused tickets.

Golden Bear
15-02-2018, 10:08 AM
While the actual definition of a season ticket isnít to Ďcommití to attend every match, in football itís in spirit a commitment to attend, as you are paying to guarantee your seat for every home match at a discounted price (from purchasing every ticket individually).

While I understand your need to post this point, I donít see how it furthers the discussion?

It actually raises debate surrounding the purchasing of ST with NO intention to attend in some of the more desirable areas/seats... but letís not open that can of worms right now.


My season ticket is well used but at the same time I will opt out of a couple of the televised games (I hate the Sunday midday kick offs.) So in a way my purchase is a DONATION to Club funds. On the occasions I don't attend I first of all offer my seat to friends and if I still can't give it a way then I advise the Club to make it available for resale.

Seems fair enough for me, I'm not expecting anything in return.

leggeto
15-02-2018, 11:23 AM
Either that or cancel your season ticket if you don't make it to X amount of games, or the price increases or something? All for cheap tickets if people use them, but if our crowds continue you could have a situation were adults willing to pay £300+ per season are struggling for decent seats because there are stacks of unused 25 quid kids season tickets.... The huns at home was a near sellout I think and it was half empty, as it is most games.

There will be a central computer connected to all the turnstiles and the log on the PC will show if a card has or hasn't been swiped in,so they could find out the ones who just buy the kids tickets to get upgraded for their mates for the big games

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:43 AM
My season ticket is well used but at the same time I will opt out of a couple of the televised games (I hate the Sunday midday kick offs.) So in a way my purchase is a DONATION to Club funds. On the occasions I don't attend I first of all offer my seat to friends and if I still can't give it a way then I advise the Club to make it available for resale.

Seems fair enough for me, I'm not expecting anything in return.

This is exactly how it should be. Well done.

scoopyboy
15-02-2018, 12:29 PM
Someone on Facebook has advertised 4 season tickets which will be unused on Saturday.

He knows that they can be released back to the club, but he wants cash for them. If they're not sold by Friday pm, he's going to contact the club. No doubt at that late stage, those seats will remain empty.

Given that there are still seats available in the South Stand, no-one who wants to go to the match should miss out, but for our Cat A games, when the south isn't available, it makes sense, on various levels, to have a formal system in place to encourage the release of unused tickets.

They should be careful.

Against the T&C of having a season ticket.

Don't think the club care about handing it on to a fellow supporter but openly selling it is something that they would frown upon.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 12:51 PM
This is exactly how it should be. Well done.


Indeed.

People should obey speed limits, but they still need cameras and traffic calming measures to encourage people to comply.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 12:59 PM
Completely incorrect comparison.

Not donating your ST when you cannot attend is nothing like breaking the speed limit in any way!! Speed cameras and traffic calming measures are not a system put in place to aid drivers to comply with the rules they are ways to force drivers to obey the law... one as a deterrent the other as a physical way to slow drivers down forcing their compliance!

What you are saying by comparison is that ST holders should be monitored and punished for non attendance, and somehow the club needs to force holders to attend once purchased!!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 01:07 PM
At the end of the day it is to you to use your ST as you want, within the rules of the club (so selling it on is a no no, and is effectively stealing for the club you are supposed to love and support!)

In my opinion this is how I think a ST should work:-

Once purchased if you cannot attend then pass it on to a friend/relative/acquaintance for no charge or donate your seat back to the club so they may make a little more money from selling it for those particular matches.

This benefits the club and you are not out of pocket, so where is the harm? Your incentive should be the knowledge you are doing as much as you can to support Hibs, whether it be from attending and getting behind the team or by allowing the club to financially benefit and equally allow another to physically get behind the team on the terraces.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 02:34 PM
Completely incorrect comparison.

Not donating your ST when you cannot attend is nothing like breaking the speed limit in any way!! Speed cameras and traffic calming measures are not a system put in place to aid drivers to comply with the rules they are ways to force drivers to obey the law... one as a deterrent the other as a physical way to slow drivers down forcing their compliance!

What you are saying by comparison is that ST holders should be monitored and punished for non attendance, and somehow the club needs to force holders to attend once purchased!!

If that's how you want to interpret that, youre being deliberately obtuse. If not, I'm not surprised that you don't understand the concept of incentive.

No matter how much you would like people to release their seats, there will be dozens of empty seats on Saturday. That will be the case for the Hearts game too, and it will continue.

Your position is that, unless they are released voluntarily, you'd prefer them to stay empty rather than offer a small incentive to encourage them to be released.

I'd rather they were full, with Hibs receiving some extra income. Just like what happens with all the EPL clubs already mentioned on this thread.

In any case, little or nothing will happen regarding this so we can all continue to be disappointed with all the empty seats.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 02:35 PM
At the end of the day it is to you to use your ST as you want, within the rules of the club (so selling it on is a no no, and is effectively stealing for the club you are supposed to love and support!)

In my opinion this is how I think a ST should work:-

Once purchased if you cannot attend then pass it on to a friend/relative/acquaintance for no charge or donate your seat back to the club so they may make a little more money from selling it for those particular matches.

This benefits the club and you are not out of pocket, so where is the harm? Your incentive should be the knowledge you are doing as much as you can to support Hibs, whether it be from attending and getting behind the team or by allowing the club to financially benefit and equally allow another to physically get behind the team on the terraces.

That would be nice.

I wonder why it doesn't happen enough and what we could do about it.

I'll have plenty time to ponder a solution as I'm setting off now on my journey up to Edinburgh for the weekend.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 03:17 PM
If that's how you want to interpret that, youre being deliberately obtuse. If not, I'm not surprised that you don't understand the concept of incentive.

No matter how much you would like people to release their seats, there will be dozens of empty seats on Saturday. That will be the case for the Hearts game too, and it will continue.

Your position is that, unless they are released voluntarily, you'd prefer them to stay empty rather than offer a small incentive to encourage them to be released.

I'd rather they were full, with Hibs receiving some extra income. Just like what happens with all the EPL clubs already mentioned on this thread.

In any case, little or nothing will happen regarding this so we can all continue to be disappointed with all the empty seats.

My position is not that I would rather they were empty, my position is that perhaps if there were a free and easy way to release STs that all holders were aware of then no incentive would be needed! Any mention of empty seats from me has been to say that Iíd rather they were empty than the fans profiting over the club (which I find to be counterproductive).

I fully understand the use of an incentive but I dont think itís needed in this situation... I think if everyone knew the process they would be more than happy to donate their tickets when they cannot attend... the love for our club is great and our fans are passionate about us doing well, and i am sure they understand that finances are big part of that.

You and I seem to be arguing the same point, only with differing views on how to achieve it...

I would worry that giving an incentive before making the process free, easy and clear would only cloud this debate.

If Hibs were to try and organise ST seat donations for those unable to attend and it didnít take off then I would be open to look at incentives to push folk in the right direction (I would definitely start with store discounts over ST discounts or partial refunds, this is dude to the fact that many may then spend more at the club that they may not have spent).

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 03:24 PM
That would be nice.

I wonder why it doesn't happen enough and what we could do about it.

I'll have plenty time to ponder a solution as I'm setting off now on my journey up to Edinburgh for the weekend.

The reason it doesnít work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

Rocky
15-02-2018, 03:36 PM
The reason it doesnít work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

The club did include reference to this in their social media posts and website for Aberdeen game, advising people that they can email ticket office to release seats. I've not seen them do that before, so maybe it'll make a big difference and we won't need any complicated solutions.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 04:05 PM
The club did include reference to this in their social media posts and website for Aberdeen game, advising people that they can email ticket office to release seats. I've not seen them do that before, so maybe it'll make a big difference and we won't need any complicated solutions.

I did notice this too, itís the first example of them directly asking fans to consider it so hopefully it makes a difference.

Phil MaGlass
15-02-2018, 04:37 PM
Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 05:11 PM
Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

I think itís a mixture, but looking at the Famous Five stand, I would estimate that the majority are childrenís STs

Book of Kamberi
15-02-2018, 05:33 PM
Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

Speaking for my season tickets, if I didnít take my children, I paid the difference to upgrade the seats to adult tickets for friends or family for midweek games. Iím fairly savvy with Hibs being an out of towner Iím often in touch with ticket office one way or another. I also wasnít in FF lower, so it was more of a financial waste to not have attending kids with me.

hibbyfraelibby
15-02-2018, 06:02 PM
Club shouldn't resell season seats if money goes back to holder unless every single available home fan seat is sold otherwise we deprive the club of money

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 07:11 PM
The reason it doesnít work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

Did you see my post above regarding the guy who is trying to sell his ST seats?

He knows how to release those seats, but he's looking for something for them. My idea would accomplish that.

It's academic anyway so I'll leave it there.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 08:39 PM
Did you see my post above regarding the guy who is trying to sell his ST seats?

He knows how to release those seats, but he's looking for something for them. My idea would accomplish that.

It's academic anyway so I'll leave it there.

I did see your post and if Iím honest I think any Ďfaní looking to profit from their season tickets is no real fan to me, thatís my opinion, Iím sure some will agree and others will disagree.

I can can guarantee that this Ďfaní wouldnít have been looking for an incentive to release his seats if it had been against anyone other than Aberdeen Celtic, Rangers or hearts.

your idea would accomplish the release of more seats in these situations, no one is arguing against that point.... I just donít agree with profiting from it.

Its certainly not academic!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 08:42 PM
Club shouldn't resell season seats if money goes back to holder unless every single available home fan seat is sold otherwise we deprive the club of money

I totally agree with you on this point but this is where charging the same price for adult tickets across the stadium comes into play.... some who release their STs are releasing what may be more desirable seats, yet if you are someone buying a ticket for the match just before the reselling starts you may end up in what some consider a poorer seat.

There are so many variables in this debate, would be a hard one to come to any real conclusion.

its certainly not academic :wink:

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 08:53 PM
I did see your post and if Iím honest I think any Ďfaní looking to profit from their season tickets is no real fan to me, thatís my opinion, Iím sure some will agree and others will disagree.

I can can guarantee that this Ďfaní wouldnít have been looking for an incentive to release his seats if it had been against anyone other than Aberdeen Celtic, Rangers or hearts.

your idea would accomplish the release of more seats in these situations, no one is arguing against that point.... I just donít agree with profiting from it.

Its certainly not academic!

How can getting a fiver back for a ticket you've paid £20 for towards next year's ST be deemed as making a profit?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 09:01 PM
How can getting a fiver back for a ticket you've paid £20 for towards next year's ST be deemed as making a profit?

When comparing it to others’ (myself included’s) suggestion that supporters shouldn’t receive anything as incentive to release their unused ST seat(s) then it’s making a profit.

You are also taking that aspect of my response completely out of context.... this ‘fan’ on facebook isn’t asking for a fiver is he?

Plus I am one of those who treats it like once it’s paid for I don’t value my ST as a per game ticket, it’s a pass for the whole package.... once it’s bought and paid for its down to you to use it fully, if you cannot do so then why should you receive a ‘partial refund’?

I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldn’t do it.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 09:15 PM
When comparing it to othersí (myself includedís) suggestion that supporters shouldnít receive anything as incentive to release their unused ST seat(s) then itís making a profit.

You are also taking that aspect of my response completely out of context.... this Ďfaní on facebook isnít asking for a fiver is he?

Plus I am one of those who treats it like once itís paid for I donít value my ST as a per game ticket, itís a pass for the whole package.... once itís bought and paid for its down to you to use it fully, if you cannot do so then why should you receive a Ďpartial refundí?

I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldnít do it.

Cool.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 09:21 PM
Cool.

Way cool.


:banana:

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 09:25 PM
Do you see my point yet?

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 09:28 PM
I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldnít do it.

It's absolutely nothing like that though, is it?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 09:30 PM
It's absolutely nothing like that though, is it?

Out of all the comparisons I have read on here itís the closest I can think of... can you explain why you think Iím off the mark?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 09:48 PM
Just to summarise my POV on this matter, as I know itís become quite long winded (Iím currently recovering from knee surgery so have had little better to do the past few days!)

I agree that an incentive would make the simple task of releasing oneís ST a little more enticing to some, but I feel that it is unnecessary and that the solution would most likely be better visibility and clarity from hibs on how to do so. Their recent mention of how to do so in social media updates in relation to the Aberdeen match is a good start.

Where I am failing to agree with some is that some folk feel that they should be entitled to some form of recompense for releasing their unused seat, this I do not agree with as I feel it puts your own benefit before the club.

My suggestion is to test the water by making it more visible on how to release/donate an unused ST.
if there is not a good take up then fans reps could always formally survey fans groups/forums to see why. Perhaps the only way to bolster the numbers through the gate on sell out games is to pay us to give others the opportunity to watch in our place, but that to me seems against the spirit of supporting a club.

The other issues around this topic like childrenís ST pricing etc is another kettle of fish.

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 09:49 PM
Out of all the comparisons I have read on here itís the closest I can think of... can you explain why you think Iím off the mark?

Because nothing about the two scenarios are remotely similar.

The cinema doesn't re-sell your seat if you nip out to the toilet.

You don't buy a cinema ticket which guarantees you the same seat at every screening in a year.



You're all over the shop in this thread, it's pretty entertaining tbf so please carry on.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 10:05 PM
Because nothing about the two scenarios are remotely similar.

The cinema doesn't re-sell your seat if you nip out to the toilet.

You don't buy a cinema ticket which guarantees you the same seat at every screening in a year.



You're all over the shop in this thread, it's pretty entertaining tbf so please carry on.

Ha, this is where you are misinterpreting my comparison. I actually think my example is certainly more similar than comparing the situation to drivers speeding and the use of speed cameras as another poster suggested.... Nothing is quite as comparable so Iíll explain my point.

The suggestion that one should receive a reward or a partial refund for not fully using their ST is what I was trying to demonstrate.

By thinking of the full movie/show as your full ST I was suggesting that when you choose to leave temporarily for whatever reason (missing a match on your ST) you would never expect to receive money off your next ticket or a partial refund would you? What happens to your seat in both scenarios has no bearing on these expectations of financial recompense. Regardless if it is empty or not during your voluntary absence is outside of this comparison. In an insane world if it turned out the cinema was reselling your seat during your absence, even for a few minutes then we could discuss whether or not one deserved to be compensated, but the scales are too off for that and you would have to pretend you were able to inform the cinema pre-movie of your intended voluntary absence. :greengrin

So why should one expect similar on a larger scale?

You canít throw in the tangible issue of reselling the seat in the comparison cos it doesnít quite fit (of course the cinema are not expecting to resell your seat during your short absence, thatís just ridiculous).


ps I actually donít think I have been all over the shop at all.... my previous summary has remained true throughout my posts, I have just tried to respond to a variety of other viewpoints.

Glad I can entertain though, itís certainly keeping me sane (debatable I know) as I endure my ĎRear Window-esqueí current situation.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 10:13 PM
Do you see my point yet?

Yip.

The empty seats are worth it.

Getting a fiver back for something you paid £20 for is a profit.

And you should be able to sell your seat if you go for a wizz during a film.

That about right?

As I said, it's academic. Hibs will do nothing and the empty seats will remain.

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 10:21 PM
You can’t throw in the tangible issue of reselling the seat in the comparison cos it doesn’t quite fit (of course the cinema are not expecting to resell your seat during your short absence, that’s just ridiculous).



I agree, comparing going to the toilet during a film to missing a football match is ridiculous.




By thinking of the full movie/show as your full ST I was suggesting that when you choose to leave temporarily for whatever reason (missing a match on your ST)

Oh.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 10:28 PM
Yip.

The empty seats are worth it.

Getting a fiver back for something you paid £20 for is a profit.

And you should be able to sell your seat if you go for a wizz during a film.

That about right?

As I said, it's academic. Hibs will do nothing and the empty seats will remain.


You are are definitely twisting my words to fit your purpose in this summary, the only thing that is apparent here is that itís all about perspective.

I stated the empty seats are only worth it if it stops money going FROM the club into FANS pockets.

If you see your ST as a game-by-game purchase to you can are paying £20 per game and not £360 for 1 Season. Any return on your investment into a ST should be seen as you making a money back FROM the club, I realise that using the term profit isnít correct here as itís less than your initial outlay.

The reselling your cinema seat point is mute as I was clear in saying that I was demonstrating the expectation of refund or reward based on voluntary absence.

and finally,

You may be correct that Hibs may not go further (you cannot say ďwill do nothingĒ as they have pointed out that unused STs can be released in their recent social media comms), but we as fans and more importantly SUPPORTERS could do a little to spread the word of the ease of releasing/DONATING unused STs back for resale - to benefit the CLUB not the individual fan.

Simple really.

i could try and be smart and incorrectly summarise your points to say...

If a fan doesnít attend a match then letís give them some money back, cos thatís the only way to guarantee a full stadium for big games. Instead of just being informative letís just throw money at the problem, cos we are minted.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 10:31 PM
I agree, comparing going to the toilet during a film to missing a football match is ridiculous.



Oh.

Maths isnít your strong point is it?

Missing a few matches for your total ST is actually reasonably similar percentage to visiting the toilet during a movie.

Liberal Hibby
15-02-2018, 10:32 PM
Like Hibbyradge I'm another out of towner going to Aberdeen on Saturday (unlike him it's my first game since 'that day') and I'm delighted we're in a position that we spend pages discussing how to fill empty but paid for seats.

I suspect it's slightly off topic - but I'd like to see two other initiatives by the club:

1. A non-allocated seats area. A part of the ground where regulars can take irregular mates - part of the deal would be that the season ticket holder's regular seat would be resold. I think Swansea City have a similar scheme.

2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).

However I suspect we are getting to the stage that we don't have enough spare capacity for either and we have to really look at ways of persuading non-attending season ticket holders to make their seats available more often.

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 10:34 PM
Maths isnít your strong point is it?

What an odd thing to say.

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 10:37 PM
2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).



I always liked this idea, but I think the problem with it for a club of our size is it would actually lose money, as people would buy the 'carnet' ticket instead of a season ticket, in greater numbers than the uptake of 'new' ticket holders buying them.

Then you'd have the whole argument about where they come in the queue for Tynie tickets :stirrer:

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 10:38 PM
Like Hibbyradge I'm another out of towner going to Aberdeen on Saturday (unlike him it's my first game since 'that day') and I'm delighted we're in a position that we spend pages discussing how to fill empty but paid for seats.

I suspect it's slightly off topic - but I'd like to see two other initiatives by the club:

1. A non-allocated seats area. A part of the ground where regulars can take irregular mates - part of the deal would be that the season ticket holder's regular seat would be resold. I think Swansea City have a similar scheme.

2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).

However I suspect we are getting to the stage that we don't have enough spare capacity for either and we have to really look at ways of persuading non-attending season ticket holders to make their seats available more often.


Any and every suggestion or solution to this issue is more than welcome Liberal, thank you.

In relation to your first point, it’s quite similar when a season ticket holder upgrades their ticket to a hospitality ticket... the club then resell your usual seat. The non allocated system you suggest would likely work like that.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 10:42 PM
You are are definitely twisting my words to fit your purpose in this summary, the only thing that is apparent here is that itís all about perspective.

I stated the empty seats are only worth it if it stops money going FROM the club into FANS pockets.

If you see your ST as a game-by-game purchase to you can are paying £20 per game and not £360 for 1 Season. Any return on your investment into a ST should be seen as you making a money back FROM the club

I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket. If they don't, I get nothing.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 10:44 PM
What an odd thing to say.

Interesting that you keep editing my posts in your quotes to disclude important aspects of my responses.

SunshineOnLeith
15-02-2018, 10:49 PM
Interesting that you keep editing my posts in your quotes to disclude important aspects of my responses.

I know, it's almost as if I'm using the quote function on the message board to pick up the parts I want to respond to.

Bonkers.

May2116
15-02-2018, 10:49 PM
I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but theyíre also paying out £30 to you.

Again, itís opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others donít and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:00 PM
I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

because I feel that the numbers should look more like this.

£22 Initial outlay

You then choose not to attend the game, for whatever reason.

The club resells your ticket for £22.

Your net -£22 (same as if you had attended, after all its was your choice to miss the game)

Hibs net £44

Now extrapolate that over a ST and multiply by how ver man6 fans regularly miss matches they have already paid for through the purchase of their ST.

See £5 back to you multiplied by all the times you CHOOSE to miss a match and then further multiplied by the number of fans who regularly do the same is actually a vast amount of money.

Lets say the average is 500 fans a week for say 20 home fixtures a season, thatís 10,000 seats resold a season.

Multiply that by £22, thatís £220,000.

If you take £5 away for non attendance credit for each of these fans thatís a big chunk of potential wages for a new signing or signing on fees or even a transfer fee.

This is my point.

The logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many (the club and its fan base) outweigh the needs of the few (the individuals racking up a discount of next year ST, thus doing the club out of further funds!).

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:05 PM
I know, it's almost as if I'm using the quote function on the message board to pick up the parts I want to respond to.

Bonkers.

Thus making my responses seem less impactful or insightful to your sole benefit. Very good.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:05 PM
You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but theyíre also paying out £30 to you.

Again, itís opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others donít and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

The club would only give a resell bounty if the ticket was sold.

Maybe a fiver for adult seats, £1 for kids. That can be determined.

The "bounty" discount is used towards a new, similar, season ticket.
What's the problem with that?

As has been pointed out, EPL clubs do this. Why not Hibs?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:07 PM
You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but theyíre also paying out £30 to you.

Again, itís opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others donít and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

Finally someone who sees it how I see it. Albeit much more concisely 😂

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:08 PM
because I feel that the numbers should look more like this.

£22 Initial outlay

You then choose not to attend the game, for whatever reason.

The club resells your ticket for £22.

Your net -£22 (same as if you had attended, after all its was your choice to miss the game)

Hibs net £44

Now extrapolate that over a ST and multiply by how ver man6 fans regularly miss matches they have already paid for through the purchase of their ST.

See £5 back to you multiplied by all the times you CHOOSE to miss a match and then further multiplied by the number of fans who regularly do the same is actually a vast amount of money.

Lets say the average is 500 fans a week for say 20 home fixtures a season, thatís 10,000 seats resold a season.

Multiply that by £22, thatís £220,000.

If you take £5 away for non attendance credit for each of these fans thatís a big chunk of potential wages for a new signing or signing on fees or even a transfer fee.

This is my point.

The logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many (the club and its fan base) outweigh the needs of the few (the individuals racking up a discount of next year ST, thus doing the club out of further funds!).

If Hibs don't resell, and make money from doing so, no discount is payable.

Have you missed that point?

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:09 PM
The club would only give a resell bounty if the ticket was sold.

Maybe a fiver for adult seats, £1 for kids. That can be determined.

The "bounty" discount is used towards a new, similar, season ticket.
What's the problem with that?

As has been pointed out, EPL clubs do this. Why not Hibs?

EPL clubs do this as a gesture because they can afford it!! SPFL teams need every penny!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:10 PM
If Hibs don't resell, and make money from doing so, no discount is payable.

Have you missed that point?

Not at all... I have said letís average 500 tickets being resold every week. It may be higher than the truth but it just shows the numbers we are talking about!

The whole calculation is based on resold tickets... see line 4 of my response!

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:11 PM
EPL clubs do this as a gesture because they can afford it!! SPFL teams need every penny!

You're not paying attention.

If I return my ticket, and it's not sold, I get nothing.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:12 PM
Not at all... I have said letís average 500 tickets being resold every week. It may be higher than the truth but it just shows the numbers we are talking about!

The whole calculation is based on resold tickets... see line 4 of my response!

If Hibs resell, they make money.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:13 PM
We are not asking Hibs to add this as a revenue stream to factor their budget on every year... so whether the tickets are resold or not isnít the point, the point is that if they do I fact resell this many tickets a season look at how much Ďbonusí funds we can help generate, just from being what some may consider Ďcharitableí and not greedy!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:14 PM
If Hibs resell, they make money.

EXACTLY!!!

and if no Ďincentiveí is returned what happens then???

HIBS MAKE MORE MONEY!!!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:16 PM
Letís put it this way....

If the process became incentivised lie you suggest and £5 was returned to me should I miss a game and the club resell my seat (whether in credit or in actual cash), I would donate that incentive back to the club. No questions asked!

Thatís the difference!

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:20 PM
We are not asking Hibs to add this as a revenue stream to factor their budget on every year... so whether the tickets are resold or not isnít the point, the point is that if they do I fact resell this many tickets a season look at how much Ďbonusí funds we can help generate, just from being what some may consider Ďcharitableí and not greedy!

And we'll continue to watch the empty seats, week after week.

At least we'll be pure.

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:21 PM
Letís put it this way....

If the process became incentivised lie you suggest and £5 was returned to me should I miss a game and the club resell my seat (whether in credit or in actual cash), I would donate that incentive back to the club. No questions asked!

Thatís the difference!

You're a star.

If only everyone was like you.

But, the reality is they're not.

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:21 PM
You're not paying attention.

If I return my ticket, and it's not sold, I get nothing.

Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and donít attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:22 PM
You're a star.

If only everyone was like you.

But, the reality is they're not.

And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

Hibbyradge
15-02-2018, 11:23 PM
And that are what many call Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

Super.

Well done.

BoomtownHibeys
15-02-2018, 11:24 PM
And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

Check you

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:29 PM
The whole FAN v SUPPORTER issue is universal in football, but in the current climate where we see 100,000 people in the streets of Edinburgh celebrating the Cup victory and then struggle to beat our noisy neighbours in ST sales itís a valid point to be made!

We could mention the dreaded HIbs Class phrase but I know that will open a whole new can of worms!

BlackSheep
15-02-2018, 11:34 PM
And we'll continue to watch the empty seats, week after week.

At least we'll be pure.

This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

grammyb111
16-02-2018, 08:55 AM
This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

In an ideal world every season ticket holder who can't go to a match notifies the club without recompense, no one is disagreeing with that. We don't live in an ideal world though.

The club have details of the number of returns they get for each game, but human nature would suggest that these will be less for big games, because out of towers etc make a bigger effort to make the game. Next sold out game (no one that I can see is saying that an incentive will be paid if game isn't sold out) the club offers £5 credit to next year's season ticket (whether that is lower for child ST's is for discussion but for the sake of argument say £5 across the board) if you notify that your ticket can be resold and it sells. The club can then assess whether the scheme is profitable vs the uncompensated approach. No one knows the answer to this but a lot of posters (myself included) think it would be, you say it wouldn't be which is fine, but I'm sure we all agree that whichever is more profitable should be the route we go down.

Hibbyradge
16-02-2018, 09:32 AM
This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :hilarious:

I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.

Onceinawhile
16-02-2018, 09:35 AM
I think itís a mixture, but looking at the Famous Five stand, I would estimate that the majority are childrenís STs

What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?

J-C
16-02-2018, 10:07 AM
All pretty straight forward, offer the ticket holder the money they paid for said seat when they hand it back to the club if they can't make certain games, not really rocket science, maybe charge a small admin fee to do so.

blackpoolhibs
16-02-2018, 10:42 AM
If there was an easy way where you could log on and give your ticket back, then recieve a small refund if sold, then i'm all for it.

Where i would not refund anything, would be if the ticket was a discounted one, they are already benefiting greatly in my opinion.

I'd imagine if it was easy, and if it did give that refund or a sum of credit say for the club shop, more folk would make the effort than if nothing was forthcoming.

Personally i feel that would be the fair way to go, sometimes a little incentive is needed for folk to act, it is easy to do nothing.

And of course if that ticket is resold, its win win.

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 12:37 PM
You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :hilarious:

I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.

I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didn’t work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I don’t deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that it’s disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to ‘do the right thing’. Maybe it’s a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. It’s certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?

Scouse Hibee
16-02-2018, 02:01 PM
Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and donít attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!

:confused: Well that's a new one.

grammyb111
16-02-2018, 02:02 PM
I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didnít work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I donít deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that itís disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to Ďdo the right thingí. Maybe itís a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. Itís certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?

I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?

SChibs
16-02-2018, 02:23 PM
What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?

There's no dents in the back of the seat infront

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 02:24 PM
I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?

We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldnít be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

Itís seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 02:26 PM
:confused: Well that's a new one.

Another who reads one line out of context and highlights it for their own agenda I see!!!


Do you need me to explain in context???

Hereís a hint... read the rest of the post and you will understand the point.

grammyb111
16-02-2018, 02:55 PM
We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldnít be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

Itís seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!

What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 03:13 PM
What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.

Finally a sensible reply.

Yup, we all have friends to pass on our tickets to in our absence but there is the odd time that even they cannot go in your place.

This is where this discussion started.

Yes how long can the club ask for unused ST to be returned? No one knows because they havenít tried it yet... their recent mention of the process on social media was the first I have seen publicly tried and it was more of a pop than with an attention catching bang if you get what I mean.

The one aspect of this discussion that seems to divide people is the incentive-to-make-folk-aware approach.

Until the club have tried and failed to make it public knowledge and shoved it down our throats that we can return unused STs I am not for trying the incentive based approach.

As for maximising profits, the tickets can be resold to any level of buyer be it Adult, Child or Concession... my only wish is that if the ticket is resold, HIbs keep 100% of the resale.

I am in not correct in saying that if we can create a system where ST holder return their ticket for no reward and Hibs make 100% resale then this is the best solution.

It just seems to me that some folk are not willing to try and spread the word and make fans aware of the process without an added incentive.

Rocky
16-02-2018, 05:52 PM
Finally a sensible reply.

Yup, we all have friends to pass on our tickets to in our absence but there is the odd time that even they cannot go in your place.

This is where this discussion started.

Yes how long can the club ask for unused ST to be returned? No one knows because they havenít tried it yet... their recent mention of the process on social media was the first I have seen publicly tried and it was more of a pop than with an attention catching bang if you get what I mean.

The one aspect of this discussion that seems to divide people is the incentive-to-make-folk-aware approach.

Until the club have tried and failed to make it public knowledge and shoved it down our throats that we can return unused STs I am not for trying the incentive based approach.

As for maximising profits, the tickets can be resold to any level of buyer be it Adult, Child or Concession... my only wish is that if the ticket is resold, HIbs keep 100% of the resale.

I am in not correct in saying that if we can create a system where ST holder return their ticket for no reward and Hibs make 100% resale then this is the best solution.

It just seems to me that some folk are not willing to try and spread the word and make fans aware of the process without an added incentive.

Full marks on three fronts:
- Flogging the arse out of this thread with a truly vast number of words typed
- Relentless commitment to supercilious responses to reasonable posts
- Bringing exceptional levels of complexity to arguments around a really straightforward subject

So to summarise, if Hibs do a better job of publicising the returns process they'll probably be able to resell more tickets without an incentive scheme. And if there are still lots of empty seats at sold out games after doing that then considering an incentive scheme is worth doing if it generates, net, more income for Hibs because volume increase offsets cost of incentive.

Is that about the size of it?

Scouse Hibee
16-02-2018, 06:23 PM
Another who reads one line out of context and highlights it for their own agenda I see!!!


Do you need me to explain in context???

Hereís a hint... read the rest of the post and you will understand the point.

I read the whole post and whatever context you try to put that daft statement into it still sounds daft. Here's a hint for you, stop trying to belittle everyone elses opinion and accept that not everyone agrees with you.

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 06:24 PM
Full marks on three fronts:
- Flogging the arse out of this thread with a truly vast number of words typed
- Relentless commitment to supercilious responses to reasonable posts
- Bringing exceptional levels of complexity to arguments around a really straightforward subject

So to summarise, if Hibs do a better job of publicising the returns process they'll probably be able to resell more tickets without an incentive scheme. And if there are still lots of empty seats at sold out games after doing that then considering an incentive scheme is worth doing if it generates, net, more income for Hibs because volume increase offsets cost of incentive.

Is that about the size of it?

Yup.

Scouse Hibee
16-02-2018, 06:31 PM
Yup.

Ah well, why didn't you just say that😁

I'll go along with that as a reasonable suggestion.

BlackSheep
16-02-2018, 06:37 PM
Ah well, why didn't you just say that😁

I'll go along with that as a reasonable suggestion.

Those who know me well, know I am terrible at summarising! 😂

But thatís the long and short of it.